Logistics, Army experience and crisis QRF. Read and chill the f out.

[Pavulon]

Guys haiti just had what will probably be an event equivalent to the Tsunami in loss of life and destruction. Haiti already has poor infrastructure and now that is destroyed. In my experience it takes some time to onramp (load up), transport (hard because no port means no intermodal containers), and offload equipment. Things have to be shipped in order and relevance. This is difficult to do in European ports, in Qatar, or Kuwait. It is difficult in eastern NC after a giant flood.

Focus is what the planners are working on. Resources must be pooled and planned. There is NO BENEFIT in dumping resources in a field and starting a lord of the flies situation. They have set up a base of operations. They will fly in heavy equipment to clear roads and run ground operations. It is not sustainable to run a "air bridge" with c130 aircraft. They will try to clear the port and get operations running there. Forward operations from that base will expand as resources come online.

Here is the takeaway. People will die no matter what we do. The goal is to minimize that number and NOT create civil unrest. We do NOT want to place any troops in a position to confront crowds. BCT / ACT does not equip them for this scenario. Engineers and MP units will be used, the stand down and backout order will prevent shooting deaths. These NG units are trained in this work and can deal with it. Medical aid has to be organized to deal with people but not create a situation where people are massed.

We are moving people and material into place to save lives. We are working within a legal framework set by a government. We are not shooting from the hip.

We can triage and help where possible while an operation spins up, we can not provide a miracle.

Chill, donate money to a reputable charity, and ask your friends to do the same.

[SidDithers]

1. K&R...

good post.

Sid

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Actually worst loss of life

this is quite possibly the worst lost of life in ten seconds that mother nature ever has done. It is, and I am not exaggerating, as if a small nuclear devise was dropped in Port Au Prince.

We are at 140K and counting.

And some of us have tried to explain this to these people.

[Pavulon]

7. The still photos really get me..

I can watch video and force myself to disassociate it. But the still photos are gut wrenching. I have stopped looking, just to depressing. Your comparison to a nuclear event is accurate. Immediate and catastrophic. One positive in all this sadness is hopefully we can assist haiti in rebuilding a better infrastructure over the next decade. This will be a long running recovery operation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Oh the usual two years recovery phase

is out the window I suspect.

[haele]

13. In a week, we'll start seeing deaths from Cholera, sepsis, and other

diseases due to poverty, starvation, unsanitary conditions and poor infrastructure that modern civilization is no longer familiar with - right on our own doorstep. And we're just not going to be able to plug up gaps and fix things fast enough to keep this from happening.

When Port Royal, Jamaica, was hit by a killer quake in the late 17th Century, it killed just over half the population of the area; and of those fatal casualties the majority - almost 2/3rds - were from disease, despair, riot, starvation and injury beginning from a week up through a couple months after the quake itself. With the living conditions pre-quake for the majority of people in Haiti, this is probably a good comparison of what is probably going to occur, no matter what amount of aid we will be able to provide.

It's going to be grim and brutal all around. We can only hope soften the blow somewhat, to reduce the fatalities, to the people of Haiti with the aid we can get to them.
The most important key to their survival now is to provide enough of a structure of community that, even if it can't care for them immediately, can provide them with the hope that there is a future if they can just wait for it to come over the next few days.
I've been trapped in a natural disaster area for a couple days a long time ago; just seeing someone coming by the cluttered streets and telling you "if you can stay together here for a while and keep everyone calm, we're trying to get to you; we'll be be here as soon as we can get our equipment through the rubble and get set up" or even telling them "hey, a quarter mile down the main road over there, we're setting up a secure location to get supplies" can keep people organized, helping each other, and alive much longer than not showing up or passing them by without word.

Haele

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. And Americans don't get it

I mean Anderson Cooper made a comment that was oh so telling.

He did not realize that a compound fracture was very much lethal... of course, in the US it usually is not. You go to a hospital, they take you to the OR, clean it in the OR and pump you full of antibiotics. The same goes for Mexico... but Haiti?

[haele]

35. Ghods, I had a shipmate die of a compound fracture in an auto accident in California years ago -

The report was that his car went off the road into heavy brush in the back country, and the car ended upside down, trapping him underneath. The accident seriously broke both his legs, fractured an arm, probably bruised his ribs, cut him up some, and might have also given him a concussion.
They found him five days later; he had apparently died only an hour or so before someone noticed the car and went to get rescue. He had been packed for urban comfort camping, and there were supplies - about two six-packs of canned fruit drink, beer, a couple granola bars, some bread, jerky crackers, and dried fruit - in the back seat within reach of him while he was waiting for rescue. When they found him, he had apparently treated himself as best he could, and had wrapped himself in a blanket; there was still an unopened can of fruit drink and some food by his hands. He actually did what he was supposed to, stayed put - but that was probably because he was in way too much pain and injury to move very far and he wasn't found within the first few days of the accident.
Sepsis from the broken leg had killed him, not exposure or dehydration. He would have survived if his legs had not been broken or if he had been found about two, three days earlier.

Haele

[w8liftinglady]

30. especially since 3 of the major wasting diseases are endemic there

TB,HIV,and malaria,as well as many worms and parasites
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/haiti.aspx
I hope volunteers are taking necessary precautions before going to Haiti...otherwise they'll have the healthcare workers and the patients with diseases.
Edit to reinforce that people need to be vaccinated against hepatitis,rabies,and any other tropical diseases,as well as carry anti-malarial meds.

[RoyGBiv]

3. This is an excellent post ...

Simply excellent.

[likesmountains 52]

4. Thanks for some sanity.

[blondeatlast]

5. Thank you for the sanity. k/r/nt

[BeFree]

6. Well

I'm sure that if I were on the ground in Haiti and was so fortunate as to read this, I would of course just suffer silently as the 'elites' get their ducks in a row (no wrinkles in my uniform) and orderly and professionally provide me with a small bottle of water 3 days from now.

Fer sure.

[Pavulon]

9. This isn't a class war

having participated in these things no effort is made to identify people by income. Actually it was reversed because the poorest people (by nature of being poor) were unable to evacuate the flooded areas or had no one to help them. We helped them first, we secured their homes and helped them leave.

Orderly and professional keeps people from getting shot or killed in after events. I am surprised that a major fire has not broken out yet. This is real life not a movie, this has been done before and there is a right way to handle it.

Running a free for all clusterfuck helps no one.

[BeFree]

14. Oh sure

They should just wait patiently for your highness. Things must be done according to the book.

But you are right... put professionals on the ground there with their snotty attitudes and they would get shot.

[Pavulon]

18. No fool. Using Rangers to secure positions and maintain order

will get people killed. I do not want to see us troops forced to fire on people to protect themselves from a riot. The book is nice because you can learn from past events and improve on them.

That book brings troops with less lethal resources like tear gas, and MP (police) instead of infantry. The book tells you how to avoid a situation where you would even need that type of response.
That book tells you what you need first and where to put resources to do the most good. The book keeps you from stepping on your dick while just winging it.

Make no mistake we are making life and death decisions and the people running the operation are aware of that fact.

What do you propose we do?

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Spaking of less than lethal

the book also says bring as many actual COPS as possible... the Canucks are sending RCMP and Mexico sent 100 federal cops... I am betting a dime om the dollar these guys will bring riot gear with them.

[Pavulon]

22. Hopefully they will not be needed.

Police are much better equipped to deal with crowds and people than infantry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. That's why they are sending Royal Mounted Police

and Federal Police.

I am almost betting they will do the usual... Haitian cop, insert cop from somewhere else here, on joint patrol. Or if they are that short on locals the next best thing, a cop and a trooper... together, hopefully to reduce the risk for all involved.

[BeFree]

23. I propose....

....we keep clamoring for the people who need us to clamor.

The military and the professionals don't need us kissing their asses, but the people on the ground do need us to keep clamoring for better and faster.

This is not a war zone. These people are not our enemies.
You are making these people into criminals without any reasons. You are claiming they will go nuts, and I propose you are f'n wrong.

[Pavulon]

29. No I AM NOT. I mobilized when eastern NC flooded

and this is pretty much the same, just much bigger. I have specifically said that INFANTRY troops are not trained for or equipped to respond first. They can be used for labor and logistics. Move shit around.

The military is equipped to run large logistics ops and can get HELP to the people who need it while NOT CAUSING unrest by randomly dropping off food and water in random places.

Local resources will help make sure help is distributed and that no problems happen. If they do happen police officers, not infantry troops will be there to deal with it.

I have said NOTHING like what you posted. The military is supporting the people on the ground fool.

[laughingliberal]

31. I don't see it as making people criminals to recognize the scenarios likely to occur

in disasters of this magnitude. I do believe all the agencies and countries involved are making all the efforts they can to get things moving. As said before, supplies, food, water can not be telepathically transported into the areas where roads are blocked. This is probably one of the worst disasters we have ever witnessed. I don't believe there is an effort to slow help down. And I don't believe that the efforts now being made are incompetent.

[jmowreader]

77. "The book" can work pretty damn quick if Bush isn't in charge

According to the New York Times, we have 14 food/water distribution centers established, and we're using the Cap-Haitien container port to ship materiel into the country. Compared to what Bush did in Katrina, I'm fairly impressed.

[Sal Minella]

11. IMO you should keep reading the news stories to get some grasp of what

it's actually like there, on the ground.

Several people on DU have written stunning accounts of the problems of contending with devastation and I get the feeling that your "elites" are not wasting any time pressing any uniforms.

[BeFree]

15. I do get the feeling...

...that too many uniforms are being pressed. First.

So, we disagree. Well, the only ones suffering are those waiting for a jug of water.

Guess who I feel for the most.... The uniforms, or those suffering?

[Pavulon]

21. I get the feeling you are ill informed

the US has spun up Naval and Air Force resources and has begun a massive operation to save lives. We are working with other NGOs and governments to get shit done. What do we disagree on? What the fuck are you saying? We are doing nothing?

Should we just start throwing shit out of helicopters and call it a day?

[BeFree]

33. Good idea

Yes. Throw - not shit (curious you use that term)- but water and food out of helicopters. Truck it as far as you can and dump it. Yes. Lets not be stingy. Lets not wait, lets get it out there so more stuff can come in. Last I heard there is no room to store any more at the airport.

Lets hire Haitians to help move it. Or we can sit back and say, as you do, "let the pros handles it. Just STFU and trust them."

I say, write a new book. Get the aid out of the airport and in the people's hands. Guess that makes me a bad guy in your eyes?

[Pavulon]

39. Dude, there are no roads for trucks to use.

They will have to bring in D6's, excavators and cranes to clear roads. You cant drive a 10ton truck through a road covered in collapsed structure.

you cant throw water out of helicopters and not expect to create riots or problems. This is not an alien landing, this is an event that has happened before and that has a playbook. Those books are written in blood. The lessons in them are learned when people are dying. This is not the time to get all jackson pollack with it and just start an improv.

The goal is to get life sustaining care to people who need it in a way that does not create a greater problem. Everyone is working towards this goal.

Again donate cash and chill.

[BeFree]

42. No roads?

I see dump trucks moving. I see cars moving. Take your no road BS and shove it. They have you propagandized rather well. :puke:

How do you think the news crews got on the streets? You think they walked?

[Pavulon]

49. So you think we are starving them?

no ports, no way to move equipment freely. They did not take a fucking HETS truck or a D6. They dont have palettes of water do they? You have no clue what the fuck is going on and no background to pull from.

You are running around this thread like a fucking monkey slinging shit all over the place.

What the fuck is your point?

ON EDIT: No port means no intermodal offramp. Means more time to move stuff. Means a company like maersk cant just load up a container ship and go. Everyone is trying to save lives and help people. END STORY.

[BeFree]

52. What the fuck is your point?

My point is that I want them to do better. Now is not the time to cut some slack. Its been five days. There are roads. There are choppers.

I don't want excuses, I want results.

Answer this: Who do you think the people on the streets would support?
Me who says hurry the fuck up, or you who says STFU?

[Pavulon]

55. And there are operations ongoing.

no one is cutting slack. We are sending ships people and resources. What do you want to do with the choppers. Which is better cargo, water, medical supplies, or people who can filter water and set up triage? Again this is not a moon landing. It has been done before.

I want a pony, but the reality is clear. The situation is bad and we working around the clock to help. This is not about the street. It is about saving lives.

Donate.

[Individualist]

76. The pony meme again. Isn't that just too special!

[Pavulon]

85. Poster is out of line. Best I could do and not get post deleted

the guy has no concept of the scale and scope of what is going on in haiti now. just insulting people who are trying to save lives.

[Hannah Bell]

80. there's already heavy equipment inside port au prince. brought in on roads,

from dominican republic next door.

[Pavulon]

86. That is good news. They will need all the gear they can get.

once the port opens (jan 18th per RC) they will have intermodal shipping capability. We will be able to offload cranes, excavators, and dozers.

[jmowreader]

83. Okay, so you WANT the Haitian Mafia to take over

Which is exactly what the fuck is going to happen if we just dump the aid in the middle of the street. If you've got 8000 hungry, thirsty, shelterless people in town X, and a flatbed truck with 4000 gallons of water and a Moffett forklift (you see 'em on lumberyard delivery trucks--and they'd be perfect for unloading trucks in Haiti) on it shows up and offloads , they aren't going to hear "there's another truck five minutes out; there's enough water for everyone." There will instead be massive chaos and bedlam, people (possibly including the truck driver) are going to die, and someone is going to take over the distribution. You know who will, too: It will be some nice young Haitian mobster with a big pistol and a hand stuck out: "One hundred gourde per gallon, please. Form a single line to the right."

[A-Long-Little-Doggie]

58. I get the feeling

that you and your magic wand should get your ass down there ASAP and conjure up some jugs of water. Then you can wave your wand again and get those jugs to the exact locations where they are needed. I am sure you will know the exact locations.

[BeFree]

64. Oh?

Answer this: Who do you think the people on the streets would support?
Me who says hurry the fuck up, or you who says STFU?

[A-Long-Little-Doggie]

90. I didn't say STFU to you.

[MadHound]

12. Have you ever in your life participated in anything approximating this kind of crisis?

I used to be a firefighter back in my youth. I was one of those that used to get shipped out to California to help out there. I know what it takes to organize and outfit a small group of emergency responders, both in time and material. If we could be on the road and going within twenty four to forty eight hours, we were doing good, and that's just for a small (5 or 6 people, two to three vehicles) group.

The logistics of getting aid into an area on the scale of Haiti is simply astronomical. It takes time and lots of effort. Yet here we are, with the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Force setting sail yesterday, they'll be there Tuesday. I find that kind of turn around and prep work work to be nothing short of miracle.

You obviously have absolutely no knowledge of what the fuck you're talking about, but that's OK. The pro's will continue to do their job in a professional and fast manner despite your ignorant mouthings.

[BeFree]

17. Ewwww

Tough guy. I'm scared.

Yeah sure, lets all just STFU and trust that the gubmint is doing the best it can. How dare we question the 'Authorities'?

How dare we demand the best, and then some? It isn't like life hangs in the balance. Oh wait, yes it does.

Yeah, fuck me, I just want it faster and better. Gawd, what's wrong with me?

[MadHound]

32. Oh geez dude, do you just go over that hyperbole cliff for the hell of it

Again, let me ask, have you ever in your life done anything that is remotely close to this kind of emergency response? Just answer that one question OK.

Leave the hyperbole for the playground where the little kiddies might be impressed by it:eyes:

[BeFree]

36. Little kiddies?

The little kiddies I am concerned about are those poor crushed kids on the streets of Haiti. That's all that I am concerned with.

But you seem more concerned with your highness. :puke:

[MadHound]

37. Again, let me ask, have you ever in your life done any emergency response work?

Can you answer that simple question?

[BeFree]

41. No

This is not about me. So just stop that shit.

This is about them. About the people who have been crushed and getting them help as fast as possible.

[MadHound]

47. Is that a "no, you have no such experience",

Or "no, I don't want to answer that question because it will expose my ignorance"?

Look, it has become increasingly obvious that you have no goddamn clue about just how much goes into a coordinated response to an emergency. You just can't throw some shit on a ship or a plane and go. You have to organize it, pack it right, check and double check, not just the supplies, but the machines and the people in order to insure that everything and everybody is in working order. Hell, first time I rolled to CA I had to get a complete physical including tetanus and hep shots, not to mention checking all my gear, packing it, packing personal stuff, doing a thorough vehicle check, etc. etc.

You're simply uneducated about these matters and are being unreasonable. I hate to tell you this, but people are going to continue to die, that is unless you personally can figure out how to get those multi-ton earthmovers and other heavy equipment over to Haiti today. Let me guess, you think that they can be airdropped:eyes:

My suggestion to you is simply this; shut up, your ignorance on this subject is showing. All you're doing is embarrassing yourself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. We need some of that magical pixie dust some of these folks

believe actually exists.

You know... pour some on the team and POOFFF you are THERE... a little more and POOFFF all is right with the world.

I have put some of these knuckle heads on ignore... perhaps I should remove them from it... at this point to do this.

:banghead:

[MadHound]

51. I've found these posts over the past few days just utterly stunning

Such a lack of how things actually work in the real world. Never mind that there are no ports, one marginally functioning airport, a completely demolished infrastructure, and that Haiti is far across the sea, these people think that we should have been rolling aid off the boats by the next day.

It just boggles the mind, this sort of combination, ignorance and outrage.

[nadinbrzezinski]

It is partially outrage over Katrina

where that could and chiefly SHOULD have happened.

If katrina had not gone the way it went, I don't think people would be reacting this way.

[BeFree]

50. Heh

Telling me to shut up makes you feel better? Calling me ignorant makes you feel better? Go feel yourself.

This is about getting help to people who need it and doing so better and faster.

Answer this: Who do you think the kiddies in Haiti would support?
You who are saying STFU, or me who is saying Hurry the fuck up?

[MadHound]

54. So oh wise one, tell me, how would you speed it up?

Tell me how you would get planes in and out of a marginally working runway (one runway mind you) that has a limited supply of fuel available?

Tell me, how would you get that aid off the tarmac and out into the countryside when the roads (which were never designed for heavy truck traffic to begin with) are crushed, blocked and crumpled?

Tell me, how would you off load hundreds of tons of material from ships when there are no functioning deep water ports or cranes?

Tell me, how would you expedite the load of literally tens of thousands of tons of material by the Marines?

Tell me, how would you get those ships carrying all that material to move faster?

You can sit there and say hurry up, but unless you have a concrete plan for helping speed things along all you're doing is criticizing a process that you have no clue as to how it actually operates. You have no experience with emergency response on any scale, yet you feel qualified to critique a process that you have no clue about how it operates. Don't you think that's just the wee bit presumptuous of you?

[BeFree]

56. First

Stop making excuses.

Hire Haitians to do the work. I see the pics from the airport and all I see is old white guys. Like me.

The roads are open into downtown. The news crews don't walk from the airport, do they?

Load up the citizens trucks with goods and deliver.

Fly choppers and drop emergency supplies.

They are doing all that, and all I am saying is do more. Do it now. And keep doing it. Hurry the fuck up.

Methinks the folks on the streets are more in favor of HTFU vs, STFU, which is what they'd tell you, I'm sure.

[Pavulon]

57. From lack of experience this is understandable

they will use locals to help distribute. They will NOT hand out aid without verifying it is not going out to be sold or traded for sex. They will not drop palettes of water bottles into a place where there are 35,000 people and 10,000 bottles of water. They will not cause riots.

A news van is not a rescue operation. It is not a hets truck, it is not a trauma center, it is not a way to stop epidemics of disease. Planning requires a strategy and then people to carry that out.

I agree with the faster part. Everyone wants results, you have to realize this is not the first time we have done this. This is not a moon shot, there are documented ways to carry out operations that will save the most people possible with the resources on hand.

[BeFree]

59. Its been five days

The time for faster is just about over. There are people dying.

Sorry if I am on just the side of those who need the help. Guess I am just for the underdogs?

What is sad, tho, is the vile personal attacks in this thread. VILE.

[seabeyond]

62. do you really really think everyone else is not on the side of those that need help?

do you really believe that.

that alone bothers me that you feel you are simply for the underdog and everyone else says fuck them.

absurd.

[Pavulon]

66. Yep you have been a bit of an asshole

telling me I am kissing the ass of the military and posting propaganda. Bottom line is that the operation is ongoing. The port is being repaired, supplies are coming in, and people are being helped. The world does not operate on miracles. Logistics and planning to support the people ALREADY helping out are required.

There are no sides here, only in your head. Everyone wants to save lives.

donate, those old white (and black) guys you are talking about know what they are doing. That is why they are there and you are here.

[BeFree]

68. Bullshit

I heard the same stuff during Katrina. And we saw how that worked out.
Embarrassed the whole country. And now you think, in the heat of this, that I should STFU? BZZZZZZZZZt!!

[Pavulon]

69. This is not Katrina.

talk all you want, just donate some money too. Your mouth and what comes out of it are not a factor in this event.

Donate.

[BeFree]

88. Heh

Your mouth is?

[Pavulon]

91. My wallet is this time..

no longer in the national guard.

[seabeyond]

70. so your issue with katrina is embarrassment. hm. mine is loss of life and suffering. nt

[jmowreader]

87. Get Katrina out of your head. Right now.

The government's response to Katrina was nothing more, nor less, than an act of genocide committed against the American people. Justice requires George W. Bush and Michael D. Brown be executed by firing squad for that catastrophe. Read this:

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/images/11/03/brown.emails.pdf

I can pretty much guarantee no one is going to email the director of FEMA on this one and tell him to roll his sleeves up so he looks like he's working hard, or compliment him on his television makeup.

[BreweryYardRat]

92. "Justice requires George W. Bush and Michael D. Brown be executed by firing squad..."

Ooh, yes please.

[MadHound]

63. Not making excuse, just trying to impart reality to you

The roads to downtown aren't open into downtown. They have a path, a single file path making do for a two lane road.

How do you honestly think that you're going to hire Haitians to do the work? "Oh, excuse me, but would you stop worrying about your injury/loved ones/survival/further earthquakes and help us with this relief work?" Yeah that will work well.

And let me make this perfectly clear, you're getting your information from "pics from the airport". A very selective source and one that doesn't give you anywhere near a clear picture.

As far as trucks are concerned, those roads in Haiti weren't designed with trucks in mind even before the earthquake, and now after they've been given a good shake, well, it makes truck traffic mighty difficult.

Airdrops? God, do you even know what is involved in the logistics of airdrops of relief aid? Let me guess, you're going to have the Haitians clearing a drop zone of tens of thousands of tons of rubble with their bare hands right? And who will prevent all hell from breaking loose when those supplies touch down. Which would you rather see, a madhouse of everyman for himself, or somebody in there making sure that not only the strong and fit get aid, but also the old and injured. And let's not even get into how many people can get killed at an emergency airdrop due to pallets landing on them.

Look, I understand your frustration on this, but the fact of the matter is that everything is being done as quickly as possible in a manner that will help the most. I think part of the problem is that you're watching too much television coverage, where if it bleeds, it leads. I've noticed that few TV reporters are reporting about what is currently going right in Haiti.

This isn't Katrina, it is orders of magnitude more worse. It isn't connected to our country, it is across the sea. And unlike Katrina, a Bush isn't in charge of this one. So chill, and stop making statements that continue to show your ignorance of how emergency response works in a disaster.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. here is a short comparison between the two disasters

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7480094

And yes I missed quite a bit of points.

Now as to watching TV, I am, but I have an educated eye... so even the TV allows me to tell things on the ground.

[BeFree]

65. ......

Answer this: Who do you think the people on the streets would support?
Me who says hurry the fuck up, or you who says STFU?

[Pavulon]

67. People support those who get shit done

we got it done in with tsunami aid will (and are) getting it done here. Doing something right is not the same thing as just doing something. Your washing machine works plenty hard but you dont want it preparing your tax return.

I assume you have some job or specialty. If I swap you out with 4 people who have no idea will your work get done. 10, 20, no. The right people doing the right things in the right order are crucial.

[qazplm]

89. questioning the authoritites is great

usually though, it helps if you have a clue about what you are questioning them about or else it becomes an inefficient method of heating the local environment through the application of hot air and nothing more.

Do better is not a plan. Go faster is not a plan. Just dump stuff is foolishly asinine. I mean I appreciate the moral self-righteousness your posts in this thread clearly give you, but it isn't going to help Haiti at all.

[Lisa0825]

93. TROLL. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. When we wrote the first plan for TJ I had a long talk

with the Navy. They could steam out and get to us within 24 hours if the port at La Paz was not damaged, and that was the BEST case.

Yes people ARE clueless, and will not listen to those who have done this. So I had to plan to be ON MY OWN for at least 24 hours... So we put in the usual cushion, 72... I had to have enough resources to take care of a city of 2+ million with 15 ambulances, assuming all survived and 70 trained paramedics.

Yes, people don't get it.

So we set strategic caches all over the damn city.

Oh and I forgot to add, I knew that in a worst case... we'd run out in 36 best case... nothing I can do about that... since we knew we'd lose some.

Yep, that's a sinking feeling...

[tabatha]

8. I was just thinking about what would have happened

in our town ---- modern facilities and roads and airport, if 150,000 had died and 750,000- 1,000,000 homeless.

I have seen what happens with a simple fire evacuation --- roads become jammed, and the places where people are held overnight are schools, where nowhere near 750,000+ people could be held. Also, the open space could not hold 750,000+ people.

The hospitals would also be hard pressed to deal with the numbers seen in Haiti.

[malaise]

19. Superb post

Rec

[Hekate]

24. KnR for trying to be another voice of sane knowledge and information at DU

Way too many people get hysterical here -- all I can do (besides donating to DRI) is hope to God that certain DUers are nowhere near my town when the next big fire happens -- much less what we Californians call The Big One.

Hekate


For donations and news about Haiti:
http://www.directrelief.org/

[BeFree]

26. The flood continues

The flood of those telling us to STFU and kiss the ass of the pros continues.

It really is too much.

[Pavulon]

34. Dude, donate some cash and chill.

The NGO's (civilian) and military have specifically said they dont want people there unless they have skills to help. This is not the first time the military has worked to aid a disaster. These guys are trying to get help to people, there is no miracle play. It is grind work and it will continue.

[BeFree]

38. You chill

Your ass kissing of the military makes me want to :puke:

[Pavulon]

40. Fuck You, While in the military

I mobilized to help people in my state whose homes were destroyed by floods. I handed out water and put old people in trucks to Red Cross emergency centers. These were some of the poorest people in NC. I also got to go for a fun visit to bosnia to help stop a genocide and stabilize a region.

The military here is SUPPORTING a civilian agency. They are not running the show and they are not running a combat operation. They are providing resources that will save lives.

What the hell is wrong with you?

[BeFree]

44. What the hell is wrong with you?

All I want is better and faster.

Screw bureaucrats and the playbook, people are dying. NO MORE EXCUSES.

[seabeyond]

45. it bothers me too. the people actually doing the work, the caring, the pain of the experience

of the disaster and to create them as non caring people is appalling to me. i have stayed out of the threads because i have a tough time with people that actually allow their mind to preceive they are the only ones that care about the life and death of these people.

it makes no sense at all. to assume all the people over there trying to save lifes dont care.

[SidDithers]

53. Keep posting your opinions...

so that DU'ers far and wide can marvel at your ignorance.

Sid

[blondeatlast]

60. It's almost entertaining, but then, my friends think I have an extraordinarily

dark sense of humor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. should I remove some of these folks from the ignore list?

I mean my head really hurt after last night of this

:banghead:

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. Oh I went ahead and removed the ignore

this is all I can do...

FACE PALM...

Amazing...

This is actually THE NIGHTMARE in insert refugee center here... aka what we used to call, Rumor Mary...

[WildEyedLiberal]

75. LOL

The military is actively engaged in saving lives in Haiti RIGHT NOW - which is far more than you're doing sitting on your ass on fucking DU - but you want us to believe that they're the villain and you're some kind of working class hero?

God, what an ignorant asshat you have proven yourself to be in this entire thread.

[Sal Minella]

43. You'd probably be a lot happier posting on some other board

where reality isn't so intrusive.

[BeFree]

72. Question

Answer this: Who do you think the people on the streets would support?
Me who says hurry the fuck up, or you who says STFU?

[Pavulon]

74. Right tool for the job. 9 women cant have a baby in one month.

no matter how hard and fast they try. The operation is about getting aid in AND standing up their port and roads to be able to expand operations many times over.

[seabeyond]

28. reality. as much as we all dont want it to be. nt

[pintobean]

46. Well done. n/t

[Spazito]

73. Excellent OP...

and given the lack of understanding by some wrt the reality on the ground in Haiti it was much needed.

Thanks for posting this, it is much appreciated.

Recommended.

[MadMaddie]

78. Pavulon great points!

[Hannah Bell]

79. heavy equipment is reported already to be there. from dominican republic

(which is on the same island but not hit) & elsewhere.

[Pavulon]

82. The port is projected to open on the 18th

access to intermodal shipping will be a MASSIVE improvement as well. I think this could turn out to be one of the best things I have seen. The US using power and money to help those who need it most.

[NoPasaran]

84. Recommended for reality