It took several days if not weeks after 9-11 for all our search teams and other elements to get into

[Toots]

place. Why is it such a political disaster if we don't have everything in place in Haiti after only four days? People really need to get back to reality and not have such huge expectations of what our Military and rescue workers can do. Especially in a demolished country that can only be reached by boat or plane..

[Jamastiene]

1. Well, in 72 hours, the window for any kind of rescue is almost completely closed.

So, if your definition of "relief" is throwing bodies on a backhoe (and maybe actually getting them on there), burning bodies in open dumps and burying bodies in mass graves and a fully armed police force, I guess you should be happy with what is happening.

Funny thing is MSM was in their in a jiffy with their own supplies and set up camp pronto. The UN also did not make them take down their entire operation and move it after they had already started trying to treat patients.

It's not the organizations that are the main problem here. It is the disorganization of relief efforts.

Another funny thing is China's rescue teams were there and on the ground working within 24 hours. Too bad there aren't a million of the Chinese relief workers and rescuers there. The rest could just stay home and quit getting in the damn way.

[Auggie]

3. Are they disorganized or are there just too many channels of approval/red tape?

[Catshrink]

5. no.. Haiti is a logistical nightmare

one dinky little runway with no taxiway, a collapsed control tower, and a destroyed port. Getting the supplies in is very difficult. Once there, debris and bodies are choking the roads. Nothing to do with red tape and approval --the adults are in charge here.

[sarge43]

4. I'm curious. How did the Chinese relief teams get into

Port-au-Prince that quickly? Certainly not by ship and where did they fly out of? China? Men and material organized, uploaded, half way around the world, in place and functioning in under 24 hours?
If they were using an aircraft large enough to make the jump without refueling, it probably couldn't have landed at P-au-P airport without serious risk, if not suicidal risk. The airport has about the same capacity as Fargo SD's and only the flight line is still intact.

Have a cite?

[malaise]

6. The Chinese left for Haiti within hours of the earthquake

That was impressive but remember they did not take all the heavy equipment that the US has sent down there.

[sarge43]

10. I am not downplaying or dissing their efforts. Hand salute.

But if they went in without full self support, they're fracked because there's nothing left on the ground; the intra fracture, such as it was, is gone. There's no potable water. If they didn't bring their own and lots of it at eight pounds a gallon ....

[malaise]

15. Actually there is potable water

in several parts of the city and island. Using very creative means people have been accessing water. We have lots of reports coming in here in Jamaica and while this is a catastrophe of unparalleled proportions, as the shock is wearing off, people are regrouping and helping themselves.

All the collapsed hotels and embassies still have running water and people are using long hoses to fill up containers for themselves. Of course the scumbags are selling water as well.

That said I agree with you that any volunteers better have their own supplies of everything.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. You forget the Iceland's rescue team in within 12

is this a competition? Look so far there are thirty very specialized teams from aroudn the world. You may want to play this stupid game but this is EXACTLY the first things that were tasked in.

[sarge43]

2. And the 9/11 destruction was contained within a small area

Imagine if most of NYC had been leveled, including the bridges into Manhattan and the port facilities, both air and water.

[EFerrari]

8. And human remains were found in the dump in New Jersey -- was it?--

where the twin towers debris was taken.

None of this is easy.

[EFerrari]

7. Expectations are the b word, for sure.

It looks like supplies are getting through today. That's what really matters.

[treestar]

9. And it isn't even our country!

Which 911 and Katrina were! It's astounding. We're generously giving to another country in a time when we're in an economic downturn. some people just have to bitch.

[RamboLiberal]

11. That's bullshit - S&R were in both the WTC & Pentagon sites

almost immediately. FDNY though decimated were back in there searching that night. And many teams of volunteers from other FD's & other agencies drove in, some many hours to help and stayed for a week or more.

At the Pentagon same story. S&R were there that day and worked throughout the night & coming days. I read a book written by one of the S&R people at the site that day.

I watched 9-11 & remember the stories of the S&R.

Search and rescue efforts
On the day following the attacks, 11 people were rescued from the rubble, including six firefighters and three police officers. One woman was rescued from the rubble, near where a West Side Highway pedestrian bridge had been. Two Port Authority police officers, John McLoughlin and Will Jimeno, were also rescued. Discovered by former U.S. Marines Jason Thomas and Dave Karnes, McLoughlin and Jimeno were pulled out alive after spending nearly 24 hours beneath 30 feet of rubble. Their rescue was later portrayed in the Oliver Stone film, World Trade Center.

Some firefighters and civilians who survived made cell phone calls from voids beneath the rubble, though the amount of debris made it difficult for rescue workers to get to them.By Wednesday night, 82 deaths had been confirmed by officials in New York City.

Rescue efforts were paused numerous time in the days after the attack, due to concerns that nearby buildings, including One Liberty Plaza, were in danger of collapsing.

Recovery efforts
The search and rescue effort in the immediate aftermath at the World Trade Center site involved ironworkers, structural engineers, heavy machinery operators, firefighters, police officers, asbestos workers, boilermakers, carpenters, cement masons, construction managers, electricians, emergency medical technicians, insulation workers, machinists, plumbers and pipefitters, riggers, sheet metal workers, steamfitters, steelworkers, truckers and teamsters, and many others. Lower Manhattan, south of 14th Street, was off-limits, except for rescue and recovery workers. There were also about 400 working dogs, the largest deployment of dogs in the nation's history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_and_recovery_effort_after_the_September_11_attacks

[Toots]

16. Do you think there were no Haitians involved in search and rescue immediately?

My state sent a unit of fire fighters and search and rescue workers and it took four days before they got on a plane and got to New York. If you remember for two full days planes across America were grounded. Hell Bush* didn't get to New York for almost a week after the attack.

[MadMaddie]

13. Don't forget New York had a high functioning infrastructure

water, electrical, telecommunications, emergency services, Haiti has none of these things.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Actually we had people on the job within two hours

and they had the infrastructure.