Finally: Helicopter drops

[BeFree]

Just now CNN showed a helicopter dropping supplies to people.

Its only been 4 days, but finally, they are doing what was to be expected.

Good job military. I bet the people on the ground were happy as heck to see those choppers and the goods being dropped.

[SidDithers]

1. Finally, CNN gets around to showing helicopter drops...

and you, of course, think nothing is happening if it's not on CNN.

Sid

[Richardo]

3. My exact thought.

If it's not on TV, it's not happening I guess.

[Parker CA]

6. This post made me laugh out loud. Thanks for the humor amidst all this chaos.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. And ignored what MSNBC showed

the chaos...

This very short haul been happening for oh at least 24 hours... of course this is what they think are air drops, not what I think is an air drop...

[blondeatlast]

68. ...

:thumbsup:

[Vincardog]

2. Where are the people telling me yesterday that they would be a disaster?

I am GLAD they are happening.

[BeFree]

8. Yes

I am feeling a bit better now. I was getting worried for those folks.
Last night I was told it wouldn't work. And today I see it working.
Thank you military. I knew you'd come through.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Did you see the fights on the ground?

Of course not.

And by the way... you were asking for C-130 AIR DROPS...

[cliffordu]

12. LOL...Let's dump pallet loads of bottled water at 120 knots....

from 500 feet up....

:rofl:

[NYC_SKP]

65. No, no, drop a ready-to-go desalination plant.

Fuck, Haiti is SURROUNDED by water!

bottled water... really... :eyes:

:P

[cliffordu]

86. LET'S JUST DROP YOU, YA HOSER.

[NYC_SKP]

92. *raises hand*

"Guilty!"

:rofl:

[cliffordu]

94. Well...

"....A man's got to know his limitations....."


Dirty harry

in some fucking movie or another....

:rofl:

[BeFree]

13. So

You're not happy? I wonder why.

And you are wrong, again. I asked for helicopter and air drops.

I am happy, why aren't you?

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Becuase those HELICOPTER AIR DROPS started yesterday per BBC

but I am sure you always will find fault and are always unhappy, and my nightmare in a refugee center

They didn't start before because they did NOT have the heavy lift. READ HELICOPTERS

Now you were asking for C-130 drops and there are FIGHTS... so YOU WERE WRONG... but that is ok, you are an ignorant twit, that wants to POLITICIZE emergency response, like the RIGHT does regularly and demonize the people putting their lives on the line right now to help these people, to score what a political point?

Just because CNN did not show it to you yesterday does not mean it did not happen. Just like the water distribution that started yesterday and YOU DID NOT see.

I guess if CNN does not show it, it did not happen.

[laughingliberal]

87. +1 nt

[Hannah Bell]

14. lol. "it won't work, buy a clue, get educated!"

[KittyWampus]

11. aren't we all glad it's being done PROPERLY so there is no further damage done?

that's the point, isn't it.

Sometimes it's better to do a job right than to cause a clusterfuck by doing a rush-job.

Ew, she said "rush-job"

[Hannah Bell]

15. ya, sure, today it's done "properly", yesterday it couldn't be done.

[cliffordu]

43. Stop lying. it WAS being done yesterday.

:eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

66. not according to our resident experts, it couldn't be done. people would riot.

[laughingliberal]

88. There have been some fights breaking out in some of the areas over the supplies being dropped.

I wish they would fly some security details in to be there when the supplies are dropped.

[RamboLiberal]

79. Yep where are the DU'er who argued last night with those of us

questioning why no helicopter drops? Glad to see they got it started.

[PacerLJ35]

81. I wasn't arguing against helicopter drops...

I was saying that airdrops from airplanes wouldn't be a viable option. The helos can get a limited amount of aid to remote parts of the area, but the bulk of the aid is going to have to be delivered via airplane to the airport.

[cliffordu]

4. The helicopters and their fuel and crews had to be airlifted in

I don't know that there was a single cargo-worthy helicopter on the whole island. And there was no jet fuel that could be accessed at all.

The port being totaled and the 'airport' being one landing/takeoff strip creates a logistical problem I cannot fully get my head around.

Too bad they can't build a pontoon port - like they did on the beaches right after D day- they set one up that they could unload the tanks and heavy artillery.

Something is going to have to be done to allow really huge loads to be brought ashore.

I feel for those folks. Completely fucked up.

[Hannah Bell]

17. of course there was. dominican republic (on the same island & not affected)

sent eight, for example. and most of haiti didn't suffer much damage. damage centered in port au prince.

carl vinson there since thurs, aircraft carrier, brought in something like 12-18 helicopters.

you guys just make up stuff to rationalize.

There are lots of helicopters "on the island" which is haiti/dominican republic i.e. hispaniola.



Scenic Helicopter & Small Airplane Flights in the Dominican Republic

Scenic flights - either by helicopter or small plane - of the surrounding areas are offered by different operators depending on the area you are located at. These flights are a unique way to see how incredibly diverse and beautiful this country is. Depending on the operator, you can usually choose what areas you wish to see from the sky and how long of a flight you would like to take.

http://www.hispaniola.com/dominican_republic/things_to_do/activities_scenic-flights.php

[cliffordu]

27. So: they had the eight helicopters. Problem solved.

Eight civilian sightseeing helicopters. Not Sikorsky Sea Stallions, but nevermind.

They could carry oh, I dunno - say 1200 lbs of water at a time, plus fuel and pilot and someone to dump the water. Lets see...divide that by 8.35 lbs, that would equal just over 143 gallons of water per flight.

How much fuel to fly from the DR to Port au Prince?

Were the Helicopters being used to transport UN searchers to look for the UN soldiers trapped in the rubble? to get Americans out? (In both cases yes).


Or they could carry 3 or 4 wounded out if they can get to out.

The military choppers have been working since they arrived.

Just because it ain't on the news don't mean it didn't happen.

Make excuses- rationalizations for what?

[Hannah Bell]

30. They were MILITARY helicopters. DR has a military with the usual toys, & partly funded by the US.

Your contention was that there wasn't a single cargo-carrying helicopter on the island.

There are many, & in a pinch, even sightseeing helicopters & private helicopters can be pressed into service. dunkirk was was evacuated by people in pleasure boats & rowboats.

You just don't know what you're talking about. just rationalizing.

[cliffordu]

39. Well....Nice of you to think so

but I do have extensive experience with rotary winged aircraft from the Loach to the Sikorsky Skycrane - think all Vietnam era helicopters -

Current designs are extrapolations of those aircraft, pretty much.

Your need to complain about everything all the time is tiresome and juvenile.

The effort isn't good enough because you say it isn't.





I forgot:

The president fucked you on health care but he is opening 14000 community health care clinics, you know, for THE PEEPLE!!!!

I will use them because I can - and I am grateful for this small thing - .....I think you should at least walk the talk and eschew all help from the government - no subsidies or use of these clinics.

Because you hate the current bill and you're an activist with principles, god dammit.

:eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

47. your ad hom has nothing to do with your erroneous contention that there wasn't a single adequate

helicopter on the island.

nor does all the bs about the health care bill or my supposed beliefs about the adequacy of relief efforts.

[cliffordu]

51. Nope it doesn't

but it DOES illustrate your chronic negativity, nothing is enough, no effort adequate to your purity and right thinking existence.


They have TWO cargo helicopters. Two.

Look downthread for the exact number of helicopters.

:eyes:

And, I said I DIDN'T KNOW IF THEY HAD ONE SINGLE CARGO HELICOPTER ON THE ISLAND. Twisting real written sentences to your pristine opinion is a fave trick of who, now.....some group I cannot name....

Before the Vincen got there, then, we KNOW there were TWO cargo helicopters.

[laughingliberal]

89. Not sure how the 'purity' snarks got in here.

I am totally of the opinion that the relief efforts on Haiti are going as well as can be expected for the magnitude of the disaster. But I don't think this 'purity' snarking has a place in this debate. And it does appear ad hominem

edited grammar

[TicketyBoo]

76. Oh.

Your need to complain about everything all the time is tiresome and juvenile.

That must be the reason why I have this person on "Ignore."

[cliffordu]

84. Yep. Nothing is ever enough, nothing reaches the purithy that one needs.

[cliffordu]

40. What model helicopters???

The military ones??

Hurry with the google or the wiki, poser.

MSNBC JUST SAID the vinson has been using helicopters to deliver goods into the city since it's arrival.

Get your facts straight before jumping, sparky....

You are misinformed enough to be a member of the Politburo.

[cliffordu]

46. You mean these helicopters???

The ones that include two cargo helicopters????


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Air_Force

AND, the killer, the Army's heavy lift battalion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Army

:rofl:


the only thing funnier than a poser is an uninformed poser.

[Hannah Bell]

59. They're military helicopters & cargo helicopters. You're the one who said they don't exist.

You're the one who said they had to be "airlifted" in, along with jet fuel, which also didn't exist "on the island".

So looks like you're the poser so far as information about "the island" goes.

PS: News that Carl Vinson was bringing helicopters known since Wednesday.

Fraser also has ordered the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson to steam toward Haiti. The ship was at sea near Virginia when the quake hit and as it sails south, it will stop at Mayport, Florida, Naval Station to pick up supplies.

"As ... it passes through or by Mayport, we're going to provision it with as much capability as we can, primarily looking at helicopter capacity ... because we need to be able to get around the country." The carrier is able to provide needed helicopters for lifting aid from the ship into the country as well as moving construction equipment to places where the machines are needed to clear rubble.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/01/13/haiti.us.coast.guard/index.html


Started flying loads Friday AM.


There were also functional ports in DR, being used for relief efforts. In fact, the media were operating out of DR ports & airports & using DR for operations base. DR provided earth-moving equipment first day out, 25 public & private helicopters, portable kitchens with meals & water, etc.

[cliffordu]

60. Nope - I said I didn't know. You CAN read caintycha????

:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

63. here's what you said:

The helicopters and their fuel and crews had to be airlifted in.

False, they weren't airlifted in, first US ones were coast guard & second wave brought on aircraft carrier Carl Vinson.

I don't know that there was a single cargo-worthy helicopter on the whole island.

Fine, you didn't know, but there was.


And there was no jet fuel that could be accessed at all.

False. DR has jet fuel.


The port being totaled and the 'airport' being one landing/takeoff strip creates a logistical problem I cannot fully get my head around.

DR, on the same island, has several functional, undamaged ports & about 5 airports. Media are using DR as operations base.

On day one, DR sent mobile kitchens, helicopters, medical teams, earth-moving equipment. On roads.

[cliffordu]

67. "Have to be airlifted in"

I didn't know you could count on the Dominican Republic for the mass of fuel they need for their 8 helicopters.


I was speaking to the earliest needs, before the Vincen arrived, and the constant snivelling about the lack of helicopter drops the day after the earthquake.


But you go ahead and parse what I said in response to the OP and lie about what I really said.

You'll get there soon enough.

You get busted for your half truths and misrepresenting what people say on a regular basis.

Odd that.

Power to the peeple.

[Hannah Bell]

69. They not only have helicopters, they have planes, both military & private.

The point is, they had jet fuel.

I didn't parse anything, i copied your post word for word.

you were wrong. i'm assuming you forgot there were two countries on the island, or assumed the damage was island-wide.

also that there were lots of other islands in the immediate vicinity.

[cliffordu]

72. OOPS, Had. RIght about that.

I am soooooooo sorry.


Still, what about the other distortions and the half-truths???

[Hannah Bell]

73. Jet fuel didn't have to be airlifted in to start relief efforts; this is the point.

Neither did helicopters. Nor were they.

[cliffordu]

74. And yet you felt it necessary to misquote and distort what I said.

maybe you're right, Maybe not.

Maybe that Helicopter I saw unloaded the day after it happened was just my imagination.

Maybe all major news organizations reporting that some jets that were ready to take supplies could not take off to deliver because they wouldn't have enough fuel to get back off the ground to return to their places of origin and THERE WAS NO FUEL AVAILABLE AT THAT AIRPORT.

But that's OK - you are the expert here and I'm just the guy who saw what was reported early and extrapolated the rest based on experience.

Now, about those distortions you refuse to deal with. A simple apology will do.

[Hannah Bell]

75. whatever you're going on about, it has nothing to do with our conversation here.

[here_is_to_hope]

29. I saw the 'expert' posters thread last night, what a laugh...

Blah blah de frickin' blah...
"They can't do this, they can't do that, why, back in the old days, Tijuana was just a nightmare, mobs and anger..."
What a ratpack of wannabe 67-7/b6's if I have ever seen them.
Buttle would be proud.

I haven't 'ignored any poster since the primaries but those wingnutfucks last night and even this thread, why bother?
It's like there is some sort of secret regulation rescue ranger guide and we ain't privy to it.
Being full of common sense and all.
This are the same people who have scanners going 24/7.

[PacerLJ35]

82. We were discussing fixed-wing air drops

You can call me a wannabe if you want but I've been flying C-130s for many years now...done lots of airdrops. Helo lifted aid isn't the same as an "airdrop".

[cliffordu]

85. Please don't confuse the posers and the purity cops with the facts.

they can stampede, ya know.

[haele]

22. When the amphib ships (Navy troop ship) come in today/ tomorrow, they'll have access from the sea.

RO-RO (Roll on/Roll off) ships are also on the way. The Amphibs can transport machinary, people, and limited supplies via LCACs (as long as there's a halfway decent beach-head), and RO-RO's can deploy major amounts of supplies and infrastructure items off their ramps as long as they can get within 200 or so feet of shore. There are also sea-going cranes from some of the Naval Shipyards that can be towed to Haiti during this time of year, but that would take at least a month to get here from Jacksonville or perhaps Gitmo if they have one, even if the weather is good.

You'll probably see some form of pontoon-based docking brought in off a RO-RO within the next few weeks to rebuild the harbor infrastructure (Yeay infrastructure!). Once you can dock an Amphib or one of the Carriers to that dock and run piping, you can pipe in all the fresh water they can make to portable cisterns and water-truck stations, and not have to depend on bottled or drummed water coming in off the planes.

Haele

[cliffordu]

28. Now we're talking.

The scale of this next phase is really going to make the difference.

And there are some great beaches (AFAIK) that won't be needed by the tourists anytime soon....

[Hannah Bell]

32. there were always several functioning ports in dominican republic on the same island.

[dysfunctional press]

93. what's the terrain like between haiti and the dominican republic?

were any bridges damaged/destroyed by the earth quake?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeFree]

7. You are a pain

And I guess it's gone right to your head?

Are you not glad the drops are happening?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Man, can you imagine the disaster if you were running the relief effort?

C-130s slamming into field hospitals, riots in Kingston, hospital ships colliding into icebergs and sinking...

Thank God the adults are in charge.

[BeFree]

18. heh

So,,,, this pisses you off somehow?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Only the implication that you're trying to take credit for it.

[BeFree]

21. Bullshit

I take no credit. The military gets the credit. Said it right there in the OP.
Guess your anger has consumed you, too?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. It's your M.O.

You complain and complain and complain based on false pretenses, and then when you can't keep up the act anymore because it's clear to everyone that you're wrong, you take credit and pretend you were right all along. You've done it before, you'll do it again.

[BeFree]

26. heh

Slander will get you nowhere. I didn't say anything until last night.

Guess, according to you, that I am now wrong to be glad they are dropping supplies to those poor people? :wtf:

[seabeyond]

24. .

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeFree]

31. Water trucks arrive!!

CNN just showed a water truck and a line of people with their jugs and no troops around. No rioting, no pushing.

But, the people in line were all children and the adults were off to the side.
Methinks the Haitian people are pretty wise folk.

[happy_liberal]

34. well isn't that just crazy, the people just patiently waiting

There are people unrecing this thread because....they seem unhappy that they are finally doing air drops???

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Well I guess those blue helmets are not troops

we are watching two different realities I guess.

[FarCenter]

33. They should break open the cartons and drop the MREs individually

So that more people would get a chance to pick up a MRE before the lucky ones run off with whole cartons.

[cliffordu]

48. You mean like they did in Afghanistan??

Odd they don't do that anymore.

Must have been because they were so successful.

[Xenotime]

35. Way to go. This is what military is supposed to do.

Not like they did with bush

[happy_liberal]

36. I was sure this thread would be full of apologies

from the people who attacked us for even suggesting this.

Are they all on conference call getting their next defensive/bullshit tactics?

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. This needs to be said

These SHORT HAULS are not AIR DROPS...

That is number one

Number two, they started YESTERDAY, not today...

They have dramatically scaled up, because the HEAVY LIFT is now mostly there

So if CNN does not show it to you it did not happen?

Air drops involve a pallet, and a C-130...

They usually also involve a dertain distance over a mile, the same goes for EMRAT drops... in chutes.

But these short haul flights STARTED YESTERDAY

Oh and yes there are fights...

And yes there are blue helmets in water distribution.

I know I must be watching the actual world, not the fantasy world.

[bettyellen]

41. Umm they were doing them all yesterday too, were you napping?

[happy_liberal]

45. Were these people napping? They said it couldn't be done...

Why can't the military clear an area where food and water can be dropped?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7480673

Isn't it an insult to assume people will riot if we give them supplies?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7481074


The same group of people seem to attack anyone (name calling, insults, immaturity) suggesting they do air drops.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. They did not clear anything

and yes they did have a fight or two...

And these are NOT AIR DROPS.

But that is ok... you still insist that they were not doing squat... now they are DOING MORE, and tomorrow they will do even more, and the day after tomorrow even more

It is called SCALING UP

[happy_liberal]

55. these are NOT AIR DROPS.

So because you were wrong, you change the definition of air drops. Whatever. This is what I was talking about when I asked about air drops. Yelling doesn't make you right.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. I did not change the definition

this is what an airdrop is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airdrop

Educate yourself.

[happy_liberal]

64. "Becuase those HELICOPTER AIR DROPS started yesterday per BBC"

That's strange- you called them air drops upthread....

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Short hop drops

technical name

[Hannah Bell]

70. The definition you link covers any kind of transport & "dropping" from an aircraft.

An airdrop is a type of airlift, developed during World War II to resupply otherwise inaccessible troops, who themselves may have been airborne forces.

In some cases, it is used to refer to the airborne assault itself.

Early airdrops were conducted by pushing small crates with parachutes out of the aircraft's side cargo doors.

Later cargo aircraft were designed with rear access ramps, lowerable in flight, that allowed large platforms to be rolled out the back.


Like I've said many times before, your experience would be much more valuable if you were able to convey it without INSULTING people, by superciliously telling them to "educate themselves," & "get a clue".

BTW, how'd that bank bailout work out? And that swine flu disaster? And that rice shortage?

yep, you have a good track record.

[Hannah Bell]

61. funny, that. dropping food & water from aircraft isn't an "airdrop". airdrops are something else.

i'm not sure what, but whatever it is, it can't be done.

[PacerLJ35]

83. In military vernacular, this type of operation isn't really an "airdrop"

To anyone in the military, "airdrop" means using fixed wing (or rotary in some cases) flying over a fixed drop zone and dropping either personnel, CDS bundles or HE platforms. Flying a helicopter at a very low hover (or even landing in a field) and distributing aid isn't an airdrop. In any case it's good to know they finally got the helicopters in-country.

[laughingliberal]

91. I'm pretty sure the definition of air drops I saw people explaining last night are unchanged

I was telling my husband and a friend of his about the people on here asking why they weren't doing air drops into the areas (both Viet Nam era paratroopers). After they stopped staring at me like I was nuts, they just laughed and shook their heads. There must be some reason they considered it ridiculous.

[bettyellen]

42. Umm they were doing them all yesterday too, were you napping?

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. It was not on CNN

and she wanted AIR DROPS, not short hauls...

So since CNN did not show it, it did not happen.

[taterguy]

49. BeFree is a he, not a she

At least according to their profile

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Does it matter?

we do live in a different world, mine is called reality...

[taterguy]

53. Hes don't dig being called shes

At least in my world

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Ok ... I am sorry

[Texasgal]

56. You do realize that

it's not just the US military there in Haiti, there are several other contries with their military.... can you bitch about them too? Or is it just the US?

[Baclava]

58. Stop squabbling children

Is this what DU has come to?

The Air Drop Commandoes vs. the My Couch Controls Can Do Better experts?



Can't all our cliques just get along?

[tkmorris]

62. AMEN TO THAT!

All of these threads have just been giant foodfights full of people saying things to each other they wouldn't dare say in person. Does no one even try to have a civil discussion anymore?

[Baclava]

71. Civil discussion? Nah - chest-thumping and brow-beating are just the wave of the future.

I blame text messaging.

I hath spoken

[TicketyBoo]

78. Maybe what's wrong with me

I don't do text messages. I use my phone as a PHONE.

[Baclava]

80. There's nothing wrong with you

I salute you for fighting back against the machines

[Waiting For Everyman]

90. K&R Gee, what's impossible is possible after all.

Great to see this is happening. Thanks, BeFree. :thumbsup:

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. Short haul helos are NOT airdrops

they do not involve a C-130... or chutes, or pallets.

Sorry, the word air drop has a technical definition.