Re General Honore since it is bugging me

[nadinbrzezinski]

He is suffering from politics induced stupidity or memory failure. Dime on the dollar the good General is planning to run for political office.

But here are some facts of what he said last night.

1.- I have never seen doctors abandon patients before...

Well Sir, a few were during NOLA... and a few who were not, well we have been calling them all kinds of nasty names for practicing disaster medicine... you know because they were promised air assets that never showed up... oh wait, YOU were in command at the time.

2.- There are times you need to break the rule book and go in before you establish security.

Well either the General is suffering from memory problems or he has forgotten that when the boys under his command, boys and girls that is, penetrated the disaster zone on day four... that was with the backup of the 82nd and the 101st.

So while some of you lap the bullshit given to you by him, since well he is being critical right now... and that fits a certain agenda of some, he is doing some damage. So I ask, Cui bono?

And no General some of us have not forgotten that mess... and you had some of a hand in that mess... You were good in some of what you did, but you got some responsibility for that mess. After all, it was YOUR command.

[RamboLiberal]

1. Why the hell are DU'ers dumping all over Honore

for Katrina and for speaking the truth on this situation in Haiti?

It was not Honore's fault that the U.S. military was not ordered in to New Orleans till too late. Blame Bush for being brain dead as usual and having such a delayed response and for playing power games with the governor trying to get her to allow Bush to federalize the situation.

On August 31, 2005, Honoré was designated commander of Joint Task Force Katrina responsible for coordinating military relief efforts for Hurricane Katrina-affected areas across the Gulf Coast. Honore's arrival in New Orleans came after what was widely believed to be a poor performance by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and its director Michael Brown. He gained media celebrity and accolades for his apparent turning around of the situation in the city as well as his gruff management style which contrasted with what many felt were the empty platitudes of civilian officials. In one widely played clip, Honore was seen on the streets of the city, barking orders to subordinates and, in one case, berating a soldier who displayed a weapon, telling him "We're on a rescue mission damn it!" New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin was quoted on a radio interview September 1, 2005, saying: "Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is Gen. Honoré. And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done." Stars and Stripes, the official newspaper of the United States Armed Forces, reported that Honoré had previous experience dealing with flooding at many Korean bases during monsoon season and supervised the installation of flood control measures.

On September 20, 2005 at a press conference on Hurricane Rita with Nagin, Honoré made headlines nationwide when he told a reporter not to get "stuck on stupid" in reference to a question about the government response to Hurricane Katrina.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russel_L._Honor%C3%A9

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Because he openly and pattently lied last night

he never violated any plans for security... he had a hell of a backup...

That is why.

And he should know better, and he is NOT telling the truth about this either... that is the point

[RamboLiberal]

10. What the hell is he lying about?

Cause he dared criticize that supplies were not getting to Haitians as quickly as they should have?

I have a funny feeling if Bush were still in charge a lot of you would be more critical of the efforts in Haiti.

And look, I'm not blaming our response. It is an international effort. To me it is international criticism.

Why did helicopter drops wait till today? The aircraft carrier with the choppers were there before today? Why did doctors abandon the hospital last night whild Dr. Gupta bravely stayed? Where did misunderstanding or fake order come from? Why were the Israelis the first to get a surgical hospital up and running. Why are patients being allowed to die because they can't get to a surgical hospital? I thought the speciality of the U.S. and other military was the ability to setup mobile surgical hospitals very quickly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Helicopter short haul drops started yesterday

they went on higher op tempo today

Water distribution started yesterday, went on higher tempo today

Guess what it will be on even higher tempo TOMORROW

Just that CNN did not show you the short haul yesterday so I guess did not happen

Now he is being critical for political reasons, you do not get to three stars in the army, as a line officer, and NOT know that it takes PHYSICAL days to get from point a to point b on the water, and that the Navy still carries the bulk of our forces and supplies either for war or in this case relief.

He also knows that there are issues with actual logistics when you have ONE strip... but I am sure you understand this

Now I really do not expect you to understand why he lied, agenda and all that, but dime on the dollar this is politics driven.

To those of us with an educated eye. it is actually inspiring to see how fast this is actually moving...

[RamboLiberal]

16. Well excuse him - CNN wasn't reporting the drops

so he was misinformed by the network he is working on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Perhaps he shold check on with BBC?

And no I don't blame CNN... given all that is going on, yes, they could conceivably have missed it.

I just blame Honore, since he should KNOW BETTER... just from the oh War College... he did study logistics after all

[RamboLiberal]

19. Maybe unlike us he doesn't have time to surf the web

to get the truth? Hell I didn't know till surfing DU just now that helicopter drops had started yesterday.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I have been following the story INTERNATIONALLY

but it is not a matter of time... I am serious, it was HIM, and he should know better,

Give you a basic example

The Comfort... the Navy Hospital Ship... it takes seventy two hours to get ready to go, and four days to physically get there. He knows this... not a great secret. So it will get there as soon as physically possible.

The First MEU, it takes twenty four hours to load and get ready to go, and again those anfibs take physical days to get there.

No I don't expect YOU to know that... that was not your job. But he was a combat officer... so knowing silly shit like that is part of his job.

And they KNEW the helos, the first heavy lift, got on station when the Vinson got on station yesterday... he knows that part of their mission is exactly that.

So while I don't expect you to know this... it was his job at one point, yes even an Army officer knows this.

Why I said, he lied.

[RamboLiberal]

22. Well good for you but surfing the web I don't find the story

about air drops yesterday anywhere. So I think its obscure enough there was no way for Honore to know about it.

[NNN0LHI]

2. I remember when he was giving an upbeat 60 Minutes interview during NOLA like everything was hunky

Until the person doing the interview asked him about the bodies floating past the front door of the hotel down stairs.

I thought the general was going to pass out right then and there.

He is/was full of shit as far as I can surmise.

Don

[DURHAM D]

3. I seem to recall that he didn't arrive in NO until several days after the event.

In other words, he got to CNN studios quicker than he was sent into NO.

Is my memory correct?

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Correct, and I have the suspicion that he was ahem encouragd

to retire after that.

[DURHAM D]

8. In other words - he is being overly negative about a phase of

the Haiti operation about which he has no prior experience. The logistic difficulties appear beyond his ability to comprehend.

I was over him yesterday already.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. No, you do not get stars, especially three

without knowing logistics.

Not as a General Officer in the combat arms

There is politics behind this...

Partly he had the misfortune of getting the call as late he did, due to the Bushes, but his comments last night were politically motivated.

[JI7]

5. i think he started doing CNN after his job in NO

CNN hired him because of that.

[RamboLiberal]

6. He was in the military - he had to wait for orders

Which didn't come from the damn Bush admin for several days - we all remember Bush was too damn busy flying to Arizona and San Diego, eating cake and playing guitar to really give a fuck about NO.

[RamboLiberal]

11. I sat and watched Katrina coverage for days

This is what I remembered of Honore.

"Our number one task is to deal with the concentration of people in New Orleans, as well as those that are isolated. And we're going to get after it," he said. (Watch the exclusive video report of the general sent to the rescue -- 10:02)

The general acknowledged that frustration, and in some cases lawlessness, is building.

"By-and-large, these are families that are just waiting to get out of here. They are frustrated; I would be, too. I get frustrated at the cash register counter when the paper runs out."

Hundreds of National Guard and active duty troops are carrying weapons in the city. But the way they carried those guns was a concern to the general.

He ordered all he encountered to point their weapons down, said CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr, who was with the general. Honore repeatedly went up to military vehicles, National Guardsmen standing sentry and even to New Orleans police officers, telling them to please point their weapons down and reminding them that they were not in Iraq.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/honore.profile/

And I remember a lot of DU'ers at the time singing his praises.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I watched it as well

I just have a problem when people lie. I mean he should know there is that pesky tape.

[RamboLiberal]

18. Maybe he was misinformed by CNN?

After all he is not on the ground in Haiti.

BTW, some lie here huh?

Retired Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, who led relief efforts for Hurricane Katrina in 2005, said the evacuation of the clinic's medical staff was unforgivable.

"Search and rescue must trump security," Honoré said. "I've never seen anything like this before in my life. They need to man up and get back in there."

Honoré drew parallels between the tragedy in New Orleans, Louisiana, and in Port-au-Prince. But even in the chaos of Katrina, he said, he had never seen medical staff walk away.

"I find this astonishing these doctors left," he said. "People are scared of the poor."

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/16/haiti.abandoned.patients/?hpt=T1&imw=Y

[malaise]

14. Agreed

I did wonder what he meant with that comment about abandoning patients - like hello General _ NOLA?

In fairness to him he was dragged in after lengthy delays from Bushco.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. True and he is partly starting to rehabiliate himself

[RamboLiberal]

20. He has nothing to rehabilitate himself from n/t