Insurance Companies secretly behind anti-HCR ads.

[johnaries]

For everyone who thinks that insurance companies LOVE the HCR bill:

http://undertheinfluence.nationaljournal.com/2010/01/health-insurers-funded-chamber.php

Just as dealings with the Obama administration and congressional Democrats soured last summer, six of the nation's biggest health insurers began quietly pumping big money into third-party television ads aimed at killing or significantly modifying the major health reform bills moving through Congress.

That money, between $10 million and $20 million, came from Aetna, Cigna, Humana, Kaiser Foundation Health Plans, UnitedHealth Group and Wellpoint, according to two health care lobbyists familiar with the transactions. The companies are all members of the powerful trade group America's Health Insurance Plans.
......
The U.S. Chamber has spent approximately $70 million to $100 million on the advertising effort, according to lobbying sources. It's unclear whether the business lobby group went to AHIP with a request to help raise funds for its ad drives, or whether AHIP approached the chamber with an offer to hit up its member companies.

The House passed its health care reform measure in November; the Senate's didn't pass its version until December. Late last week, Employers for a Healthy Economy launched a new round of TV ads on national cable that are slated to run for a week. Sources say that the chamber-backed ads will likely continue as the two bills are combined in coming weeks.

So, this is a corporate sell-out because the insurance companies LOVE the bill? I don't think so.

[Wilms]

1. So if the Insurance industry wants even more than they're getting I should like the bill?

Er. I don't think so.

[johnaries]

3. No, I'm just dispelling the myth that insurance companies love the

bill, which some people are using to justify their claims that it's a giveaway to corporations.

If you actually read the bill, it puts many restrictions on private health insurers. But instead of of reading the bill some people make a kneejerk reaction.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

9. What the fuck is a quadrupal?

Is that like a cow made out of health insurance?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[newspeak]

15. actually, I believe they do

what they want to make sure of is there is no way of a public option, even a weak one, or no regulatory controls. If you don't think for one minute they're not salivating over captive consumers and government money, I got a bridge to sell ya!

[suede1]

2. The bill sucks.

[johnaries]

4. Have you read it? What EXACTLY "sucks" about it?

The part that restricts profits/administration costs?
The part that requires premium increases to get DHS approval?
The part that eliminates "pre-existing conditions"?
The part that eliminates raising premiums because you get sick?
The part that limits annual out-of-pocket costs?
The part that eliminates lifetime caps?
The part that expands Medicaid?
The part allows for government subsidies for those who need it?
The part that expands Community Health Centers?
The part that helps providers become more efficient?


WWhich of these sucks?

[suede1]

6. Are you serious? For some this will be better and for many it will be worse.

How can anyone, besides insurance executives, be for a bill which makes the government the collection agency for private industry? We are expanding a broken system. Every one of your points deserve a caveat to talk about the people who will now pay more, about prices that have already risen in response to this bill.

We will still pay more than very other country on earth, will will still have millions going bankrupt because of health care costs, will will still have people dying because of no health care - and now there will be people who will have a much lower standard of living than they did.

This bill is by definition fascist. With no public option and a mandate it's not only bad policy, it's bad politics.

[clear eye]

8. Only eliminates "pre-existing conditions" for plans in the exchanges

not most employer-based plans.

They are allowed to charge more for "at-risk" groups.

Expands Medicaid but doesn't give states enough to actually accomplish it.

While there are subsidies, the premiums that are subsidized are insufficiently controlled so the ensuing cost overruns will lead either to increased taxes on the middle class or significant cuts in some of the benefits of either the subsidies of Medicare or even Medicaid or to all of these.

Have you read the bill or are you simply relying on WH press releases?

[Political Heretic]

12. No the part where you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

[johnaries]

16. examples, please. I'm listening.

You say "I don't know what I'm talking about" but you don't provide anything to back you up. I purpose that "you don't have a clue what you are talning about".

Care to back it up? I can.

[Political Heretic]

18. Sure

National Nurses United Issues Statement Opposing Insurance Giveaway in Senate Bill
http://www.calnurses.org/media-center/in-the-news/2009/december/nation-s-largest-rn-organization-says-healthcare-bill-cedes-too-much-to-insurance-industry.html

Related to above:
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/508471/nurses_say_senate_bill_entrenches_chokehold_of_insurance_giants

Pete Defazio, my representative and one of the best guys in congress:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/01/13/peter-defazio-i-think-the-senate-bill-is-a-disaster/

NTYs Section by section critique of Senate Bill
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/12/27/144540/55

Big Win for Pharma, but Loss for American People
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/24/a-big-win-for-phrma-health-insurance-companies-obama-reid-nelson-lincoln-lieberman-a-big-loss-for-the-american-people-and-the-progressive-movement/

My own writing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7358920&mesg_id=7368698

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7352106&mesg_id=7352692

Just as a start...

[Political Heretic]

21. Uh oh - guess you weren't expecting me to not wilt in the face of your demand for examples?

:)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

10. So does what we have now.

The bill sucks less than what we have now.

[Political Heretic]

19. Acutally, I don't think so. I fear this bill will be worse for working families in the long run

That is the reason why I don't support it.

And I don't always feel that way. I was for ARR, even though I thought the legislation was disappointing and could have been much better. I still believed it would be better for working class families to pass it, so I was behind it.

But I can't do that here.

[TexasObserver]

5. The health insurance industry uses a multi faceted approach.

They don't employ only one strategy. They work to defeat the bill because it contains things they don't like, but they simultaneously work to make the bill do what they want it to do. If a bill passes, they want to get the maximum from it. Just because they don't like it doesn't mean it's a good bill.

I find the bill very disappointing, but I haven't taken a position on its passage.

[Political Heretic]

11. Oh my god. This stupidity again and again and again and again and again.

Insurance industry has nothing to lose in advertising against health care till the last minute. Because no HCR serves them just fine. It's also their negotiating tool. As long as they continue to push massive opposition, lawmakers continue to feel that they can't stand up for more substantive reform and continue to feel that they much cut bigger and bigger deals with business. And that negotiation process is still going on.

Meanwhile, they're succeeding tremendously on their goals for health care legislation, and describe in the words of their own spokespeople the "tremendous victories" they've had on health care. NYTs reported insurance lobbyists calling the bill a "gift."

It simple blows my mind that people can't get it through their heads why the insurance industry would run negative ads opposing health care while negotiating at the same time to get as much as they can from health care legislation. It's called leverage.

Insurance companies are calling their efforts on the bill a victory and the bill itself a "gift" - and they owe their success in large part to the negative opposition campaigning they have done in the media. It's pretty simple really.

By the way, if you want to know what the insurance industry thinks of health care reform, take a look at it investor class. Since the senate bill passed, insurance stocks have shot through the roof.

[johnaries]

17. Most stocks shot through the roof, thanks to Obama's efforts

to keep us from going into another Depression.

I'm imply trying to expose the lies and the spin.

READ the fucking bill. Even without Singe-payer or a PO, this is a good, PROGRESSIVE bill.

And I am tired of hearing uninformed RW talking points trying to kill it. Especially when it comes from people who CLAIM to be progressive but block any real progressive movement.

I am tired of hypocrites who claim to be "Liberal" but who block any real progress.

I want to move forward. How about you?

[Political Heretic]

20. Factually untrue.

They shot through the roof the first day the markets opened after the Senate passed the bill. It wasn't some long term rise due to Obama efforts or anyone elses. The insurance industry stocks, disproportionate to the rest of the market, went wild.

I have read the "fucking bill" and I'm a public policy advocate and analyst by trade. It is neither a good bill nor a progressive bill.

[slipslidingaway]

14. One of the first comments on this article which I pointed out to Prosense

when she posted this in GDP.

How much did they spend on ads in support of the bill?

"Kaiser Permanente did not provide funding in any way for the Chamber advertising campaign. When we provided funds to AHIP last year, we insisted, and AHIP agreed in writing, that our funds could only be used for positive advertising in support of passing health reform. We have confirmed with AHIP that it honored that commitment, and none of Kaiser Permanente’s funds were used to support this advertising campaign.

John Nelson, Kaiser Foundation Health Plans"


Here is one ad which also advocates for a mandate "If everyone is covered..."

http://www.americanhealthsolution.org/supporting-bipartisan-reforms/