oh. my. fucking. god. U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes

[cali]

Pentagon Supplier for Rifle Sights Says It Has 'Always' Added New Testament References
By JOSEPH RHEE, TAHMAN BRADLEY and BRIAN ROSS
Jan. 18, 2010


Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the United States military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.


At the end of the serial number on Trijicon's ACOG gun sight, you can read "JN8:12", a reference to the New Testament book of John, Chapter 8, Verse 12, which reads: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." The ACOG is widely used by the U.S. military. Collapse
)


The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army.

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.


One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Other references include citations from the books of Revelation, Matthew and John dealing with Jesus as "the light of the world." John 8:12, referred to on the gun sights as JN8:12, reads, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military. Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, which is based in Wixom, Michigan, said the inscriptions "have always been there" and said there was nothing wrong or illegal with adding them. Munson said the issue was being raised by a group that is "not Christian." The company has said the practice began under its founder, Glyn Bindon, a devout Christian from South Africa who was killed in a 2003 plane crash.
<snip>

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794

[SemiCharmedQuark]

1. Blah.

[Richardo]

2. Is 'oh my fucking god' one of them?

:D

[Mari333]

3. crusaders. another reason to get us out of both places asap

[mikelgb]

4. Dan Brown eat your heart out

[liberal N proud]

5. Onward Christian Soldier

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. ... Onward Christian Snipers. n/t

[wtmusic]

6. That should be great for morale among US Muslim servicemembers

:eyes:

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Well, this isn't a religious war or anything, doncha know.

[TornadoTN]

7. Then I guess it's ok that we kill! kill! kill!

As long as our guns have plenty of good ol' Christian values inscribed on them!

[kenny blankenship]

8. "Gott Mit Uns"

[Fumesucker]

21. Just in case someone doesn't get the reference, here's where that phrase comes from..

[mmonk]

59. I'm glad you posted the picture.

I've used the phrase many times before in political discussions but the picture adds some umph.

[Fumesucker]

76. I used it on a conservative once who had never heard the phrase..

I had them look up the translation themselves..

They were quite shocked, it made a remarkable impression.

[Igel]

89. "Gott mit uns", Emmanuel, whatever.

As most of the Germans would have understood it, "Siehe, eine Jungfrau wird schwanger sein und einen Sohn gebären, und sie werden seinen Namen Immanuel heißen", das ist verdolmetscht: Gott mit uns."

If you want to assume that the Nazis didn't write the book of Matthew or that Handel (in a rather seldom heard oratorio).

Now, how the Nazi Party understood it, I can't say. Even less can I say how the Nazi leadership and the Leader himself understood it.

Just as I wonder how the guy who had them put on the scopes understood his order. (Not that intent actually matters, all that apparently matters is our interpretation.)

[Fumesucker]

92. It's not how the leadership saw it that counts..

Propaganda is for the lumpenproletariat..

And it's not hard to figure out how they would see it.

[newspeak]

61. I showed that to my FIL who was in WWII (Pacific front)

he asked me what it was--I told him that was part of the Nazis uniform. As Hitler said "who said God is not on my side." Remember the concordant with the Pope--even though some people like to look at his occult ties, he was very much a Catholic. He focused getting rid of priests and nuns who were into social justice and works against poverty. German political dissidents were also some of the first he got rid of--I can't remember the names of the brother and sister who led college students against him(the White Rose Society)-I believe they were publicly executed. And, looking at our country and some of its' homophobia and socialist phobia--he got rid of homosexuals, communists, and socialists.

And, I see we got some of the same mindset in the country. It's very troubling.

[Fumesucker]

77. What did your FIL have to say to your explanation?

And yes, we do have entirely too much of that mindset and it scares the crap out of me.

[newspeak]

78. well, he's southern baptist

and first he didn't believe it, then he just said he didn't know that. He got quiet, and I believe that's when the gears are turning in your head.

[Fumesucker]

80. It's so often hard to see the forest for the trees..

I think you may have just given him a glimpse of the forest..

Good for you.

[Igel]

90. My favorite Nazi poster

was of a nun, calling her a race traitor for not having kids.

Right up there with a t-shirt not yet banned when I went to high school: "Virgins--thanks. . ." (and the flip side) "for nothing".

Both obviously very Catholic.

[treestar]

83. What's it mean?

Gott is God? What about the rest?

[Occulus]

87. "God with us" n/t

[treestar]

88. Thanks

:hi:

[tango-tee]

99. Yes, exactly like post # 87 translated it.

It means "God with us". Isn't it amazing how countries at war with each other invoke the blessings of God to kill and maim more efficiently? Is there a separate God for each of them, to bless their specific methods to kill and destroy each other?

I was born in Germany in 1952. Coming from a dyed-in-the-wool Social Democratic family, I learned fairly early in life how the Nazis went about perverting the country. There were folks in our neighborhood who turned in their own family members to the Gestapo. My grandmother, called Red Clara, was very sick with leukemia when there was a parade being held in her street. Helpful neighbors came by to hoist the Nazi flag from her window. Once they left, she crawled out of bed, pulled the swastika flag back in and hoisted the red flag. Those very same helpful neighbors tried to hang her.

[PavePusher]

97. That phrase was in use long before the Nazi's coopted it.

Don't ascribe to conspiracy what can be explained by ignorance.

[Fumesucker]

101. You think the Nazis didn't know what they were doing with that phrase?

If so then I think you are remarkably naive..

[PavePusher]

102. I think you've missed my point...

or I was badly unclear. The phrase itself is not inherently a message of evil attribute, it is dependent on the context in which it is used.

[Fumesucker]

104. Apparently I did miss your point..

Although I generally think anyone, particularly someone in power, who claims that God is on their side should be looked at least a bit askance.

When religion gets entangled with politics and power the results are seldom good and often indescribably awful, IMO.

[Raster]

32. !!!

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

73. We got mittens, too.

was the British reply.

[Brickbat]

10. I'm speechless.

This. Is crazy.

[Hepburn]

12. Ditto....

...all I can think of is, "WTF???"

[Enrique]

11. now that's my kind of Christianity

[Codeine]

13. They need their contract yanked

like yesterday. Jesus freak bullshit.

[ElmoBlatz]

24. I'll play devil's advocate

What contract provision are they violating? This sounds a little weird to me, but the Pentagon wanted a rifle, and awarded the contract to this company. I highly doubt any contract clause is being violated.

In the future however, I imagine new contract clauses might be added.

[cali]

26. this is quite damaging- and of course it's sick shit

and it's not a rifle, it's a sight. they need to do something about these sick fuckers.

[ElmoBlatz]

28. Again, based on what?

That you're offended? That its weird? (which it is) Contractually i'm pretty sure they've done nothing wrong.

[Fumesucker]

34. These sights are being used to kill Muslims?

This is gonna go over like a depleted uranium blimp in the Muslim world.

[ElmoBlatz]

37. The sights are being used to kill Muslims

Whether they have a coded bible verse in them or not.

[Fumesucker]

39. Buit coded Bible verses turns it into a religious thing..

And one thing you can count on, when religion gets involved rationality flies out the window.

Keep in mind the US government has been trying hard to counter the perception that this is a religious war on Muslims, these Scriptural gunsights will do a lot of damage to that effort.

[PavePusher]

96. Well, you are correct on one point...

Everyones rationality has definitely flown out the window on this topic...

[cali]

40. Are you purposely being dense? Are have the lessons of Gitmo completely

eluded you?

[ElmoBlatz]

43. There were riots because of cartoons

Did the lessons of that elude you? Should we ban offensive cartoons????

[wtmusic]

52. Separation of church and state.

Review. Rinse and repeat. :eyes:

[M155Y_A1CH]

79. Cartoons were not US government issue.

Free speech is a personal right but the government should be
dedicated to religious indifference. Officially we should not be
the voicing agent for some peoples beliefs.
Xtians may be in the majority but
it's still beliefs. We should stay away from faith based government because we know that we don't like the way that works out in other countries.

Alternatively, we name weapons and such after
ancient war gods and the like and nobody cares.
Titan missiles for one.

http://www.strategic-air-command.com/missiles/Titan/Titan_II_missile_complex.htm

I think it's okay if the believers of the god are all long gone?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

50. They're not doing anything illegal....

On the other hand, these scopes are to be made according to the DOD's specifications. They need to "specify" that we don't put bible verses on our equipment.

[cali]

36. really? you need it explained to you why it's damaging

OK. The U.S. is constantly saying that these are not religious wars. this is going to spread like wildfire through the Muslim world and it will be damaging. Not to mention that there are atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims and others in the military who may well take offense.

Never said it was a breach of contract.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jberryhill]

60. "Never said it was a breach of contract."

Stop pretending you know what the contract says.

Putting these verse references on there creates a material hazard to the troops, and unless you have read any of the typical "catch all" or other termination provisions of the contract, you are blowing smoke out of your ass.

As someone who drafts contracts for a living, I'd be willing to bet the DoD has broad termination powers.

The person above said "yank their contract", not "for cause" or "breach", so tell me what you think the termination provisions look like.

Your point about breach is a straw man.

[cali]

63. why are you directing this at me, might I ask?

I never said it was a breach of contract because I know nothing whatsoever about contracts.
And I couldn't have possibly been any fucking clearer about thinking that this is atrocious and dangerous.

Perhaps you're addressing this to the wrong person, if not you are about as fucking wide off the mark as you could possibly be.

[jberryhill]

65. Because I feel like it

I get paid 10 cents a post, just to piss you off.

[cali]

67. my, you're cheap.

[jberryhill]

69. I may be cheap, but I'm not easy /nt

[ElmoBlatz]

68. What???

There's money in it?? And to think I did it for free....

[Brickbat]

14. Here's a photo.

[lynne]

15. Based on the article, this is done by the manufacturer, not via request from the Pentagon -

- and its a practice that should be stopped now that it is known.

[cali]

22. oh, c'mon. do you really think they didn't know until now?

[jmowreader]

46. You'd be surprised how slow they are sometimes...

For instance, I used to work in this building:



It took the Powers that Be ten years to figure out what this looks like.

[Cid_B]

95. God's mini putt putt course?

nt

[lynne]

56. In looking at the pic I would not have known unless I read the article -

- I would have thought it a part of the serial number.

[spanone]

16. the pentagon's theocracy

[Fumesucker]

17. This is the second *shocking* development regarding the military I've read in the last few minutes..

Hoocoodanode?

Indeed, fundie Christianism is encouraged by certain powerful elements within the military.

That this sort of thing is going on is a foregone conclusion.

[TheWraith]

18. I knew I didn't like those ACOG sights for some reason. nt

[jotsy]

19. Did it dawn on no one there is such a thing as 'separation of church and state'?

I dare say no deity deemed deserving would condone the shedding of innocent blood. How long will the world let itself be ruled by men who have made god in their image?

[booley]

20. So which weapon has Mathew 5:9?

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God"

As if the proselytizing wasn't bad enough, the company is essentially showing it has no clue what Jesus said or taught. IF Jesus returns, he may have to sue these guys for libel.

Why do fundies always seem the most ignorant of their own religion?

[madmax]

23. Touche, baby!! n/t

[rfranklin]

30. The Colt Peacemaker

http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/Colt_Peacemaker

[MorningGlow]

25. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition

:banghead:

[catbyte]

29. It's just plain creepy...ick n/t

[Initech]

85. Literally in this case!

:nuke:

[thereismore]

27. Evangelical Fail. nt

[Lint Head]

31. 8 / 12 = 0.666666667 may also point to Satan

somewhere in that equation. The 7 designating the seventh son of the seventh son.
(just saying)

[Gregorian]

33. Love thy enemy. You know, like with lead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr1KA5GXUGM

[jmowreader]

35. Well, I for one think this is a WONDERFUL idea

In fact, it's SO wonderful I'd like to suggest a few more pieces of Scripture they could put on their fine sights:

Matthew 21:12-13: "And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves. And said unto them, It is written, my house shall be called the house of prayer, but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Matthew 7:21: "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven."

Matthew 7:23: "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, ye who practice lawlessness.'"

Matthew 19:24: "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God."

Matthew 23:14: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayer; therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

Oh, and Matthew 23:23-24 is good too: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel."

I am going to assume none of those passages are on the sights, though.

It could be worse. The government buys a lot of body armor from MSA Paraclete. Paraclete means "holy spirit."

[jmowreader]

49. Actually, I think it's a terrible idea

It's also an easily-fixable idea--the bases for these sights are made probably of aluminum, and every armorer has a file in his toolbox. A few deft strokes with a file, a little flat black spray paint and voila! A good secular sight to use to waste Taliban and al Qaeda forces with.

[stubtoe]

38. Reminds me of Pulp Fiction!

Remember the scene where Samuel L. Jackson recites scripture just before a hit?

I know this is different, but that's the first thing that jumped into my head when I read the post.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

41. I'd sure like to see what Trijicon (manufacturer) has to say about this

Not sure what it could possibly be, but I really want to know their position.

[Codeine]

54. It's in the last paragraph of the OP. nt

[jmowreader]

57. Their position is already known

Their corporate values include "Morality: We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history and we will strive to follow those morals."

They specifically put the Scripture on the sight bases. It's not there by accident.

The sad part about this is, if we pulled Trijicon's contract for adding Bible verses to their products, we'd wind up getting another company in there that did the same shit. There aren't many atheists in the defense industry. Besides, Trijicon makes really good sights.

[Don Caballero]

44. Congress needs to investigate this

Very very sick.

[rucky]

47. They should really go with the "angry God" quotes from the OT.

He kicks way more ass.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

48. WWJW

Who Would Jesus Whack?

I love how the company refers to people who object to invoking the name of Jesus Christ on a military weapon as being "Non-Christian."

Got a mirror, there, Bub?

[jonathon]

51. Not surprising

[harun]

70. Agree.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

53. Warmongering Jesus quotes they should use:

I get tired of all the Christians who say Jesus was peaceful. That's only part of the story. The only way to say Jesus was peaceful is to throw out all the violent and hateful stuff he is alleged to have said. The Bible is a terrible guide to morality. It's a mistranslated hodgepodge of stuff edited for political power by Constantine and the Council of Nicaea. There's plenty of justification in Christianity for killing innocent people for no reason. The Abrahamic religions are pretty much a blight on humanity.

Just a few of the many times Jesus advocated violence and cruelty:

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34-36

WHAT "NEW COVENANT"????: Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. Matthew 5:17

# Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." Luke 3:9

# John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." Luke 3:17

# People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. John 3:18, 36

# The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. John 3:36

# Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." John 5:14

# Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. John 15:6

Peter claims that Deuteronomy 18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. Acts of the Apostles 3:23

[newspeak]

71. You already said that people like Eusebius, Constantine

the Council of Nicea put in and threw what they want out. Remember Constantine allegedly has a dream where he conquers by the sign of the cross. At this point the Christian movement is changed to merge with the dominant paradigm-that is Rome. And Rome at the time is a very aggressive, warlike culture. The early Christian movement may very well have been more of a peace movement in a time of aggression.

And, don't get me started on Saul of Tarsus. Christianity was Romanized, to fit the needs of a conqueror and maintain the status quo at the time.

I also read a book on the parallels of Buddhism and early Christianity. And since Buddhism is older than Christianity, who is to say that Buddhism did not have an influence on the early Christian movement. The book notes that some of Jesus' parables are the same as Siddhartha's.

[asdjrocky]

55. Who would Jesus kill?

[krabigirl]

58. I'm not shocked by this at all.

[FlyByNight]

62. Turn the other cheek...

...or else.

I thought this WASN'T supposed to be another crusade. And our policy planners cannot, for the life of them, figure out why the US is hated in the Middle East, occupations and oil grabs notwithstanding.

:eyes:

[tmyers09]

64. Son of a bitch, Wixom is only a half hour away from me.

[anonymous171]

66. OH MY GOD THIS IS WORSE THAN WATERGATE OR IRAQ

CONGRESS NEEDS TO INVESTIGATE NAO!!!!1!

:sarcasm:

Seriously guys, let's keep some perspective here.

[BolivarianHero]

72. Really? They had to make a special no preaching exemption for these particular wars?

"U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents."

Isn't it a given that a professional military in a secular liberal democracy will not preach or proselytize when it goes on foreign missions? Even Israel has a secular military. When American soldiers start preaching and screaming "Praise Jesus", they're little more than suicide bombers with a better pay grade.

No wonder your government gets along so well with the Wahabi Wackos who run the Saudi Police State.

[redqueen]

74. Reminded me of this:

http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-697-christian-fundamentalism-and-the-underground-reich/

[Retired AF Dem]

75. It's about fucking time that something more important than

Haiti is finally being reported on. :eyes: Did any Haiti posts rate a OMFG?

[cali]

84. I've posted a dozen or more threads on Haiti

and no, I wouldn't post anything as flip as oh my fucking god as a lead in to any of them.

[Retired AF Dem]

86. Don't mind me

sometimes I can be a bit slow.

[spanone]

81. does god support war? i think not....she's not that crazy

[treestar]

82. That's sick

And if I were the one with the rifle that would actually hold me back from firing, not inspire me to fire.

[Odin2005]

91. Christo-Fascism.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

93. I'm literally angry with rage.

I haven't been so upset since that red sox jersey got buried in the concrete at the new yankee stadium.

[Festivito]

94. Why does this compare to a crusade when Islam accepts the Bible?

It would be like a Christian army having Old Testament quotes. No big deal.

[Tim01]

98. Lots of us companies put stuff like this on stuff they make.

And soldiers are frequently christians.
Inappropriate and should probably be removed, but it is still just an optics company doing what lots of other American companies do.
We americans buy stuff all the time(not so much now that we buy everything from china) with christian stuff on it and have no idea.It's really because most of the time we just don't care.

This will probably be where Trijicon has to choose money or the bible.

[tango-tee]

100. Shaking my head in bewilderment, disgust, disbelief, despair.

On the other hand why does this not surprise me? Something is deeply wrong there. Invoking the name of Jesus Christ to bless reducing other human beings to bits and pieces of bones, sinew, yards of shredded intestines and plenty of congealing blood... Am I missing something here? This is surreal. Or too real, I'm afraid.

[stuntcat]

103. I'm so glad I'm 40

I mean I'm still horrified by the shit I'll have to see before I die but at least I'm not a 5 or 10-year-old. Humanity has lost it completely.