France seeks clarification of US role in Haiti

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

France seeks clarification of US role in Haiti
AP Last updated 11:13 19/01/2010

The United Nations must investigate and clarify the dominant US role in earthquake-ravaged Haiti, a French minister said, claiming that international aid efforts were about helping Haiti, not "occupying" it.

US forces last week turned back a French aid plane carrying a field hospital from the damaged, congested airport in the Haitian capital of Port-au-Prince, prompting a complaint from French Cooperation Minister Alain Joyandet. The plane landed safely the following day.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner warned governments and aid groups not to squabble as they try to get their aid into Haiti.

"People always want it to be their plane ... that lands," Kouchner said Monday. "(But) what's important is the fate of the Haitians."

But Joyandet persisted. "This is about helping Haiti, not about occupying Haiti," Joyandet, in Brussels for an EU meeting on Haiti, said on French radio.



Read more: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/3241184/France-seeks-clarification-of-US-role-in-Haiti

[CTyankee]

1. I can understand some practical delays of approving planes to land in Haiti, but from

what you have posted, I don't know WHAT? I'd likemore information, please

I read the link and was pretty appalled at Sarkozy expecting to waltz in for his own trip. Geez, doesn't this guy get it that France effed the country up in the first place? Really? What does he think he can DO there, except take up space, water and oxygen?

[ZombieHorde]

2. Does anyone here know anything about...

"US forces last week turned back a French aid plane carrying a field hospital"?

[Wilms]

6. It's being alleged. I've not seen it confirmed. However...

A commotion surrounding such a visit...even if she came in with one of the cargo planes...would easily disrupt and displace.

[ManiacJoe]

44. Turned back on Saturday.

Landed at the airport in DR on Sunday. Trucked in from DR.

A second plane is already scheduled in the priority queue.

According to news articles, the first plane was turned back due to lack of space at Haiti's airport and lack of equipment to unload the plane even if it had landed. I am under the impression that more unloading equipment has arrived since then.

[PacerLJ35]

3. According to the Notices to Airmen posted for MTPP

It clearly states that crews must expect to be placed into a holding pattern and if they don't have enough fuel they should be prepared to divert. It's got nothing to do with whether we want the French there or not, it's got everything to do with space on the ramp. If there's no room, there's no room and the French aircraft had to divert.

[Wilms]

4. Well the haters of VZ democracy are gonna go crazy when they see this.

Perhaps they'll dump their bottles of French wine and rename their favorite potato.

[DJ13]

5. "This is about helping Haiti, not about occupying Haiti,"

The French just dont understand US priorities.

[PacerLJ35]

7. Read the Notices to Airmen and you'll get a better appreciation for the coordination at the airport

It clearly states you MUST have a slot time, and you need to arrive within 20 minutes of your slot time, otherwise you'll have to get another one. It also states to expect holding delays, so crews need to prepare for extra fuel. There's a reason why if an airplane doesn't make its slot time it's sent away...there are lots of other aircraft waiting, and they can't afford to back everyone up (who also has fuel issues and also carrying critical aid material) over one airplane. DWB is NOT the only organization trying to get stuff to Haiti, and they need to stop trying to pawn off the responsibility to someone else.

I don't know exactly all the details, but knowing how airfield ops are run, they wouldn't turn them away simply for being French. They WILL, however, turn you away if you don't follow procedure and start creating a bigger mess.

[dipsydoodle]

15. That doesn't explain

why the UK's fully equipped and expertly staffed search and rescue teams were turned back to the Dominican Republic
THREE times.

[PacerLJ35]

17. Oh, you're right...it's because we hate the UK and don't care if Haitians get aid...

Is that what you are implying? If you READ the NOTAMs it specifically spells out the procedures for getting in and out of there. You have to call a HAITIAN agency to get a slot time...then you have to be ON TIME...and even if you're on time, they say to expect to hold and ensure you have enough fuel.

Let me ask you this...when was the last time YOU tried flying to an airfield that was operating well above normal capacity? I've been in those situations, and it's a cluster even under the best of circumstances. If you don't bring a little patience and expect delays, you'll be very, very disappointed.

[yava]

21. why don't they use road links to the Dominican republic?

Its the same island and ot a very big one.
Why can't aid be brought in by road from airports in the other half of the island?

[PacerLJ35]

24. They are using the roads

And they are surveying the other airfields for use as well. My dad works for NGA and according to him this morning (he's been called into work on several occasions) they are looking very closely at what (and how much) can operate from the other airports.

[Leopolds Ghost]

84. The main concern is that this is mass quantities of goods. It would be easier if Haiti had rail link

But of course nobody invest in railways anymore, outside of France...

[naaman fletcher]

36. Are you an expert arm-chair Air Traffic Controller?

Or is this your first time?

[dipsydoodle]

82. If you had even half a brain

you'd grasp that specialist search and rescue teams, regardless of country of origin, are only of practical use in the early stages of such a disaster i.e while those trapped are still alive.

[Leopolds Ghost]

85. Sounds like the problem is US mil FATC are treating this as a first come first serve operation.

[Judi Lynn]

8. Wall Street Journal:U.S. Forces Struggle to Bring Order to Haitian Airspace

JANUARY 18, 2010, 5:52 P.M. ET.
U.S. Forces Struggle to Bring Order to Haitian Airspace

By MICHAEL M. PHILLIPS

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti—A Federal Express 727 and a giant U.S. Air Force cargo jet from Washington state were at an impasse on the taxiway, one trying to reach a parking spot while the other headed for the runway. U.S. Navy and Canadian rescue helicopters swarmed overhead. A Bolivian DC-10 had just landed, as had former President Bill Clinton in a red-white-and-blue Boeing 757.

But U.S. Air Force Staff Sgt. Don Travo's immediate problem on Monday afternoon was finding a place for a C-130 on final approach. "I can't get him in," Sgt. Travo shouted, before ordering the plane to swerve from its flight path and turn tight circles over Port-au-Prince until told otherwise.

Less than a week after a powerful earthquake shattered the Haitian capital, Toussaint Louverture International Airport—the port of entry for millions of pounds in emergency aid—is chaotic but functioning. What was a dangerous aviation free-for-all in the disaster's immediate aftermath, with aid planes jostling for space on the single runway, is now being tamed by a small team of Air Force special-operations troops who control air traffic from a folding table set up on a patch of dirt beside the runway.

"We're trying to make order out of chaos," said Chief Master Sgt. Tyler Foster.

The airmen have guided more than 819 planes in as of Monday morning, including 171 on Sunday night. On Monday, a cargo plane, from Charleston, S.C., arrived with 39,472 bottles of water and 31,256 packaged meals.

The U.S. government has ordered that all arriving planes be issued landing slots before take-off, and that all aircraft arrive with enough fuel to circle for 90 minutes, land, depart and reach their next destination. "All operators are advised that fuel and other ground-support services may be unavailable," the order read.

More:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541004575011403710933576.html?mod=WSJ_World_MIDDLENews

[Judi Lynn]

9. France criticizes US aid role in Haiti

France criticizes US aid role in Haiti
08:15, January 19, 2010

A senior French government official yesterday criticized the dominant role being played by the United States in earthquake devastated Haiti, complaining that Washington is nearly "occupying" the country, said a report filed by the Associated Press.

French Cooperation Minister Alain Joyandet said that the United Nations should investigate and clarify the dominant U.S. role in Haiti, claiming that international aid efforts were about helping Haiti, not "occupying" it.

U.S. forces last week turned back a French aid plane carrying a field hospital from the damaged, congested airport in the Haitian capital of Port-au-Prince. The plane landed the following day, the report said.

However, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner warned governments and aid groups not to squabble as they try to get their aid into Haiti. "People always want it to be their plane that lands," Kouchner said Monday. "(But) what's important is the fate of the Haitians."

More:
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/6872164.html

[pnwmom]

69. I guess France would know about occupying Haiti, right? n/t

[Turbineguy]

10. Not to bash anybody

but the French did give Baby Doc Duvallier a nice place to be exiled to.

[Leopolds Ghost]

86. Both France and US are dirty on this. And Brazil shot up some crowds in 04... put Bolivia in charge.

[qazplm]

11. put France in charge

somehow, I dont think they would do any better, but in all seriousness, put them in charge, so that we don't have to face the criticism of invading.

[PacerLJ35]

12. If you go to the NOTAM web site and search for MTPP, you'll see the rules are there

And they don't discriminate between nationality...it's all about trying to get orderly flow in and out of the airport without aircraft running into each other or running out of fuel.

https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov

Then search safety NOTAMs for MTPP (Port au Prince's ICAO airport code)

[Kurska]

13. Fucking insane, absolutely batshit nuts, what the fuck are we squabling over?

How is it even POSSIBLE to efficiently manage a one strip runway with eight parking spots (Or was It ten, I forget the report), with every country on earth racing to get there. Clustefuck doesn't even BEGIN to describe it, my lord.

[Leopolds Ghost]

87. Why not lay down a second temp. runway like they would in WWII

Talking out my ass here, but am I right or wrong?

There does seem to be space for a parallel runway if you run the planes in opposite directions
and create two holding patterns.

They'd have to pave a taxiway going around the back end of the existing runway... they could
use the temp. runway for US military cargo planes that are used to abuse so the other pilots
cannot complain.

[madmom]

14. I saw a tv report last week where an outfit from Columbus Ohio was

put on hold for at least a day also. They where smart enough to "call ahead" and where told don't leave yet, we have no room for you. Last I heard they were told to leave the next day. What was so hard about that?

[Prometheus Bound]

16. It didn't look that hectic when President Clinton's plane arrived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLE5aqdvBZk

[PacerLJ35]

18. Uh...that's not a very good video if you want to show traffic flow

90% of the video was Clinton stepping out of the airplane. You could see a business jet on landing roll-out in the background for a few seconds, and some helicopter traffic along the eastern end of the airfield, but there were no good shots of the ramp (which would have been behind the camera), nor did it show how many aircraft were holding in sequence for a shot to land, or aircraft holding on the ramp for departure (you can't hold on the taxiway because you'll block inbounds from clearing the runway).

[Prometheus Bound]

55. If they got room and time for 757s with foreign dignitaries, why not medical supplies and equipment?

"There is little sign of significant aid distribution," said a representative of the Geneva-based Doctors Without Borders.

The aid group also complained of skewed priorities and a supply bottleneck at the U.S.-controlled airport, and urged the U.S. military to be clear on its prioritization of medical supplies and equipment.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1143436.html

[PacerLJ35]

60. Yes, because all the airplanes on the ramp are empty...

OK, you find one or two aircraft that are bringing in some semblance of "leadership" and you hammer the entire effort.

If you want someone's take on what's going on, perhaps you should ask the crews of the aircraft flying in...friends of mine speak of dozens of aircraft full of pallets, search teams, you name it. The aircraft is operating at over max capacity 24 hours a day. And yet you seem to think this single aircraft is proof of some widespread lack of action.

[Prometheus Bound]

79. Not sure where I hammered the entire effort.

Got nothing but respect for the people helping out there.

[Leopolds Ghost]

89. This is the US military doing ATC. If US senior officials or security ops people in business jets

Want priority, they'll get it. So obviously it's not just a question of equal enforcement of rules what's in that "Notice to Airmen".

You think they left Clinton in a holding pattern? Ha!

All politicians, MPs (both kinds) mercs, and non-aid workers should be diverted to the Dominican Republic. Fuck em.

[Democrat_in_Houston]

19. It also depends on how long it will take to unload the cargo

Apparently some planes are better equipped to be unloaded more quickly, and they seem to get bumped higher in the queue. Military personnel are trained and have the equipment to unload their cargo very quickly, so that's one reason more military planes appear to get priority.

[PacerLJ35]

22. Military airplanes are designed to be unloaded with minimal support equipment

Civil aircraft generally need some kind of K-loader that can reach the cargo deck to unload pallets...specialized equipment that is sparse at most third world airports. Military aircraft have cargo floors close to the ground, and ramps that allow most cargo to be offloaded using either a simple forklift or even unloaded by hand if need be (although that's pretty labor intensive).

The reason is because most civil cargo aircraft are converted airliners...they simply weren't built specifically for cargo, and if they were modified for it, they were modified by cargo companies that can invest in the equipment they need to load/unload their airplanes. The military designs their airplanes to require minimal support because you never know where you have to fly into.

Regardless, I doubt they are restricting movement to military only. It's quite clear that the international disaster response team is running the Haitian airport with respect to slot times. The US military is running the air traffic control, mostly because they have the capacity to do so.

[Leopolds Ghost]

88. Yeah, what was he doing standing out on the tarmac getting all up in Preval's face?

I mean, if he was still President, he would still be Preval's boss, but...

Face it, Preval's gov't does not exist, but we're the ones who propped up that gov't.

[salib]

20. However, the French may be warning of Disaster Capitalism

And they want their piece of the action, unlike Iraq.

Just as the World Bank is trying to take its pound of flesh, so it will be with American "Aid".

There are a number of bastards out there scurrying to be in charge, or at least first in line. It has to be said.

[PacerLJ35]

23. This will cost far more than any nation will receive in return

A C-130 costs about $6,000 an hour to operate...a C-17 about twice that. We are giving away tons of stuff, and even leaving behind most of the support gear. This action alone will probably cost the US hundreds of millions, if not more. There's really no place to "make money" in this operation.

[Wilms]

25. The U.S. doesn't make the money. The corporations do. And we pay for it.

See?

[Kurska]

27. And they are going to make money off what? Government Contracts?

We already give those out like candy and you can find cheap labor in more politically secure places then Haiti.

[Wilms]

29. Are you intentionally thick?

:shrug:

[salib]

31. Again, marketing is seductive

And those who will indeed profit and be at the front of the line for a long time are penultimate marketeers. It is very convincing. After all "Haiti is poor, what could we possibly profit from?"

By that logic, people are simply poor, not because they are being taken advantage of, profited on because of their dependence and near slavery. No, they are just poor.

And, yes, maybe this person is intentionally thick.

[Pavulon]

34. Would you issue the order to stand down and remove all us military resources

and consign tens of thousands to die? What fucking planet are you people from. If we leave a very large number of people will die as a direct result.

That is a question for you think about your answer. One answer makes you a rational human being, the other makes you a mass murderer like heydrich.

[salib]

52. Wow, what a choice

I did not know that I had such an impact simply by mentioning "Disaster Capitalism".

So, questioning the motive and means is the same as saying "no way"?

I recall that during WW II we were able to mount a war effort and still ensure that almost no one could profiteer. I do not see why we cannot do so here, or with any emergency, disaster, etc.

Oh yeah, I forgot, that means that we just do not do anything, right?

Come on, we are MUCH BETTER THAN THAT. Our parents and grandparents did it. We can, as well.

Stop posting false choices and discuss this rationally.

[Pavulon]

54. Reality is a bit murky around here lately..

you have a resource, airport. No ATC, someone has to run it. Military is doing that, considering you know, that is kind of what they do. Or you can do that with a circle jerk committee of 10 nations like the UN who cant get shit done in any amount of time. The goal is to save lives not make people feel important needed. We will "lose" money in the process. That is not relevant. I have no problem with US tax revenue funding food, jet fuel, and supplies to haiti. Worthwhile cause.

Not like we are going to give them a bill when we are done. That money is gone to a good thing.

If some shit flinging howler monkeys are all fucked off the military is there, we can order them to leave. That will kill tens of thousands of people because the shit flingers cant step into the role we are in. OR howlers can shut the fuck up and donate money or help get lives saved.

Oh, read some fucking history, profiteering in ww2 was done in every nation axis and allied including the US.

There is no mention of contracts, no mention of money, just people complaining about some event that has not happened yet and bitching about the line at the airport.

[salib]

57. It is really not a Hobson's choice

We can do better than "take it or leave it" when it comes to emergencies.

Also, we can do better than so much venom.

[Pavulon]

68. What EXACTLY should we be doing?(nt)

[salib]

58. Dupe, deleted

[malaise]

65. Sorry it is their poverty that is exploited

Cheap labor and the US corporations have had a feast with that for nearly a century.

[Pavulon]

94. So we invaded and sent aid to exploit their poverty?

is that your position? Exploited to what end? net what?

[Kurska]

26. You know I don't get it, what do you people honestly think Haiti has to loot?

That is what really gets me, it is some poor farming land sandwiched between mountains, if we are just doing this to be EVVVVVVVVVVVVVVILLLLLLLLL capitalist how the hell are we going to get a return on this investment.

[Wilms]

28. Maybe you don't see because you don't read.

Maybe you want to google a few minutes since you don't "see" the links on DU explaining the scene.

[Kurska]

30. I've seen plenty, evil Amurikans are going to loot Haiti, what the hell is there to loot?

Not to trash the country, but I've been there it is the definition of dirt poor, has very few natural resources to speak of and poor farm land. Please explain to me how ANYONE comes out of this in the black.

[salib]

32. Easy argument

I guess that is why no one EVER goes into the poorest neighborhoods and exploits the hell out of those who are most desperate with the most inhumane lending, working conditions, con games, you name it.

Hey, "the world is flat", right? Then, labor in Haiti is worth just as much as labor here, right. Except, now one can get the same effort out of these people for a tenth of the pitiful amount they got before the earthquake.

Clear enough yet?

[Pavulon]

35. So they will export more mangoes now?

christ almighty.

[Kurska]

37. Soil isn't good for that, lots of mountains

Compare the western part to the eastern part, guess which one has a agricultural industry?

Haiti is west, Dominican republic is east.

[Pavulon]

41. I believe that is one of their largest exports with coffee..

it was a jab at the poster..

[Kurska]

51. Not a big exporter either way, I'm backing you up if you're gonna loot, loot somewhere rich.

Haiti isn't rich.

[salib]

64. Again, why do you insist that because someone is poor, people will not want to take advantage

In the worst possible ways?

The mob, the loan sharks, the pimps, etc., prey on the poor, desperate, destitute, etc., not on the rich. But, I guess there just isn't anything to get out of the poor or a poor country.

It is poor there because a large number of people take everything that is produced or is found of value, not simply "because it is a poor country".

To think otherwise is being "intentionally dense."

[PacerLJ35]

67. Dude, so long as humans exist on this planet, people will take advantage of others

I'm sure if you go digging, you can find somewhere, someone's ripping somebody off. But for shit's sake, stop trying to imply the whole damn operation is a scam of Haiti. It's not.

[salib]

73. I did not and do not

I have already sent money to the Red Cross, what I could, specifically in response to this disaster.

However, we can do much better.

Did you see Naomi Klein's discussions (top of the video posts right now)?

I guess she gets a pass.

All I said to start this sub-thread was that:

"However, the French may be warning of Disaster Capitalism

And they want their piece of the action, unlike Iraq.

Just as the World Bank is trying to take its pound of flesh, so it will be with American "Aid".

There are a number of bastards out there scurrying to be in charge, or at least first in line. It has to be said."

It was a little snide, but only about the French and World Bank.

We can do much better than make a Hobson's choice, or simply say it going to happen anyway. Laws, good management, investigation and pursuit of scumbags, etc., are all good beginnings. It is important to do things well, not just do anything. And, yes, one can do things well in an emergency, and will likely help more people for a longer amount of time.

[PacerLJ35]

75. Good...

now pat yourself on the back. That still doesn't change the direction of my point, which is to say that this relief effort is not a master plan to rape and pillage the Haitian people.

[salib]

80. No, it is not.

Again, back to the straw-man. State what it is not, and then it is not that.

Great.

Now, dismissing the straw-man. We are back to the history of Latin American disaster capitalism so well documented by Naomi Klein. This could easily be a recipe for the same, and urgency, straw-men and Hobson's choices, are NOT EXCUSES.

We need to move, but do it properly. This is a well-foreseen and predicted disaster, that many organizations have prepared for. Some with nefarious goals. It needs to be recognized and guarded against.

If we are silent about that it will be easier to do and even more devastating to the Haitian people.

We must be vigilant against the worst among us who have been put in positions which provide opportunities to exploit these kinds of situations.

[Jamastiene]

93. Cheap labor n/t

[Wilms]

42. By selling services that the US taxpayer pays for?

Hello?

:eyes:

[PacerLJ35]

45. So now we're "selling" our military relief services?

Dude, nearly all the aid that's being brought in is DONATED. The US government is picking up the tab for the cost of the ships, airplanes and personnel. Give me a break. OK, tell you what, go find me an UNBIASED report stating that the US government or any corporation for that matter is intentionally overcharging for anything.

[Wilms]

47. I'm not stating opinion. You are. Bye. n/t

[PacerLJ35]

49. You sound like my 12 year old trying to argue with her sister...

[Pavulon]

50. What type of service are using the victims of the "occupation" for in your mind?

please elaborate.

[Jamastiene]

92. The minimum wage in Haiti is $1.75/hr.

What corporation would NOT want a cheap labor force like that?

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2008/wha/119163.htm

"Economy
GDP (2008 est.): 11.59 billion.
Real GDP growth rate (2008 est.): 2.3%.
Per capita GDP (2008 est.): $1,300.
GDP by sector (2006): Agriculture--27%; industry--8%; services--40%; other--25%.
Inflation (2007 est.): 8.1%.
Natural resources: Bauxite, copper, calcium carbonate, gold, marble.
Agriculture (27% of GDP): Products--coffee, mangoes, sugarcane, rice, corn, cacao, sorghum, pulses, other fruits and vegetables.
Industry (8% of GDP): Types--apparel, handicrafts, electronics assembly, food processing, beverages, tobacco products, furniture, printing, chemicals, steel.
Services (40% of GDP): Commerce, hotels and restaurants, government, tourism.
Trade (2006 est.): Total exports f.o.b.--$494.4 million: apparel, mangoes, leather and raw hides, seafood, electrical. Major market--U.S. Total imports f.o.b.--$1.54 billion: grains, soybean oil, motor vehicles, machinery, meat, vegetables, plastics, petroleum."

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/1982.htm

[Leopolds Ghost]

90. Answer: Clinton says we are there to "prevent a failed state in the Caribbean." period.

"That's why all these militaries and civilian agencies have arrived to help", he declared on the tarmac standing next to Preval.

[naaman fletcher]

33. fuck them, let France define it's role if it's not happy.

They are welcome to take over the lead, instead of complaining about us.

[Peace Patriot]

38. I'm not into criticizing this relief effort, yet. The situation is too dire.

If you can just imagine trying to get food, water, medical help and shelter to 2-3 million people through that tiny vise of a one-airstrip airport. Jeez. It boggles the mind. Maybe two hundred thousand dead. NOTHING working--nothing. No water system, no sewage system, no electricity, all the hospitals collapsed, no shelter, no communications, every other building in ruins, the remaining ones damaged and unsafe. Trying to get personnel in--doctors, nurses, rescue teams--how to feed, water and shelter them to keep them on their feet?

I just CAN'T criticize the USAF for getting that damaged one strip airport up and running--no matter what the Pentagon's or the State Department's motives might be (and I don't have any illusions about that, believe me).

I just wanted to point out that THREE countries have now issued this criticism--Brazil, France and Venezuela--that the US is seeking to "occupy" Haiti, elbowing others out. Brazil commands the 9,000 UN peacekeepers from 17 countries that were in Haiti when the earthquake hit. And I think Brazil's Lula da Silva has the right idea. This should be a MULTINATIONAL EFFORT and an example of international cooperation--not yet another US occupation, God forbid.

For the long term, this needs to be dealt with. And I hope somebody in the US government addresses it and soon.


----------------------

Here's the thread on Chavez's similar criticism. (Note the rightwing idiots who tell Chavez to "shut up," etc. Chavez has the most reason of anybody to be concerned about the U.S. military build up in the region--which is quite extensive and a threat and a provocation to Venezuela. Venezuela, by the way, was the FIRST country to offer aid and get rescue crews and aid supplies in the air.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4229316

[totodeinhere]

39. Does anyone honestly believe that the people of Haiti would be better if the USA were not there? n/t

[The abyss]

40. Good topic, Judi – thanks.

Why are US forces controlling Haitian air space and landing zones?

Or why are doctors with out borders being re-routed
http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/press/release.cfm?id=4165

Why is the US conscripting the primary airport?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/17/us-accused-aid-effort-haiti

Why is the US sending over 2K government gunslingers (bolstering an existing 1k)?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8466698.stm

[PacerLJ35]

43. Do you read anything?

Here it is direct from the ICAO-issued Notices to Airmen (ICAO is the International Civil Aviation Organization):

AT THE REQUEST OF ICAO AND HAITI'S NEIGHBORING STATES IN SUPPORT OF EARTHQUAKE RELIEF OPERATIONS, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS ESTABLISHED TEMPORARY AIR TRAFFIC FLOW MANAGEMENT PROCEDURES FOR FLIGHTS INTO MTPP. ALL FIXED-WING AIRCRAFT FLYING TO MTPP ARE REQUIRED TO BE ON AN ACTIVE IFR FLIGHTPLAN AND PRIOR TO DEPARTURE OBTAIN ARRIVAL SLOT TIMES FROM THE HAITI FLIGHT OPERATIONS COORDINATION CENTER AT 001-850-283-5477. ARRIVAL SLOT TIMES ARE VALID +/- 20 MINUTES OF THE SCHEDULED ARRIVAL TIME. IF UNABLE TO MEET SCHEDULED ARRIVAL SLOT TIMES, CONTACT THE HAITI FLIGHT OPERATIONS COORDINATION CENTER OR YOUR CONTROLLING AGENCY TO COORDINATE NEW SLOT TIMES. DEPARTURES FROM MTPP MUST COMPLY WITH NORMAL ATC PROCEDURES. ALL OPERATORS ARE ADVISED THAT FUEL AND OTHER GROUND SUPPORT SERVICES MAY BE UNAVAILABLE. WIE UNTIL UFN. CREATED: 16 JAN 16:00 2010

[Hulk]

46. Hey....we're the United States of America.....and we're #1...and....

...well...I just think that we are in charge because we have the Marines, and we are the ones responsible for bankrupting this little half-island nation. We are in charge because we ....uh, we...well, we're in charge because I think...well....uh.....??

Good call France!

[PacerLJ35]

48. Read this...

From the ICAO:

AT THE REQUEST OF ICAO AND HAITI'S NEIGHBORING STATES IN SUPPORT OF EARTHQUAKE RELIEF OPERATIONS, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS ESTABLISHED TEMPORARY AIR TRAFFIC FLOW MANAGEMENT PROCEDURES FOR FLIGHTS INTO MTPP. ALL FIXED-WING AIRCRAFT FLYING TO MTPP ARE REQUIRED TO BE ON AN ACTIVE IFR FLIGHTPLAN AND PRIOR TO DEPARTURE OBTAIN ARRIVAL SLOT TIMES FROM THE HAITI FLIGHT OPERATIONS COORDINATION CENTER AT 001-850-283-5477. ARRIVAL SLOT TIMES ARE VALID +/- 20 MINUTES OF THE SCHEDULED ARRIVAL TIME. IF UNABLE TO MEET SCHEDULED ARRIVAL SLOT TIMES, CONTACT THE HAITI FLIGHT OPERATIONS COORDINATION CENTER OR YOUR CONTROLLING AGENCY TO COORDINATE NEW SLOT TIMES. DEPARTURES FROM MTPP MUST COMPLY WITH NORMAL ATC PROCEDURES. ALL OPERATORS ARE ADVISED THAT FUEL AND OTHER GROUND SUPPORT SERVICES MAY BE UNAVAILABLE. WIE UNTIL UFN. CREATED: 16 JAN 16:00 2010

[DemoTex]

61. Not to put too fine a point on it .. but to clarify

I am quite well versed in these types of ICAO dispatches. This is an ICAO operational plan put into effect by the needs of ICAO and Haiti's "neighboring states." I would assume that the US is certainly the major "neighboring state." I doubt that Haiti has enough standing government (ie, aviation ministry) to be a part of this request.

[PacerLJ35]

66. Good god...

SOMEBODY has to run the airport. Hey, here's an idea...let's let Hugo run it.

For fuck's sake, if the ICAO requesting US support isn't enough, I don't know what the hell else you want.

[DemoTex]

71. Well, you totally misunderstood my post.

I know THAT, fer goodness sake! Some here do not know it.

I have over 17,000 hours, a few of which were into aerodrome situations as bad as Haiti (for other reasons, usually hostile fire). Believe me.

Your response was jolting .. like popping a chute on a LJ35 or deep-beta on a C-130.

[PacerLJ35]

74. Sorry...

Just used to the "America is somehow at fault" crowd responding. I apologize. For what it's worth, most Lears don't use chutes anymore :)

[DemoTex]

76. No problem ..

I took a Lear 25B into Strother, Kansas, back in the 70s for new GE engines. Since it was going to be in the shop for a couple of months, we had permission from the boss to pop the drag chute. What an incredible jolt!

[PacerLJ35]

81. Sweet...

I flew USAF C-21s, which are little more than civilian LJ35s with a TACAN nav radio and UHF comm radios installed...oh, and "USAF" paint. None of ours even had the drag chutes installed.

[Pavulon]

53. So would you give the stand down order and recall all US military

forces? Think real hard. If you do that you will kill tens of thousands of people. Right on up there with heidrich in mass murder. But those bodies would make some one have a nice warm fuzzy feeling in their tummy.
Either france can be in charge and pay for the operation or they can take their ATC bitch about a flight delay and shut tha fuck up.

Reality is difficult. Is this guy speaking for the government or just like cheney, shooting his mouth off.

[roamer65]

56. Why isn't a massive amount of aid coming in from the Dominican Republic side?

Fly it in and truck it in.

[unkachuck]

59. something's in the air....

"...French minister said, claiming that international aid efforts were about helping Haiti, not "occupying" it."

....seems Hugo's not alone....

[PacerLJ35]

62. OK, posting this a THIRD time

AT THE REQUEST OF ICAO AND HAITI'S NEIGHBORING STATES IN SUPPORT OF EARTHQUAKE RELIEF OPERATIONS, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS ESTABLISHED TEMPORARY AIR TRAFFIC FLOW MANAGEMENT PROCEDURES FOR FLIGHTS INTO MTPP. ALL FIXED-WING AIRCRAFT FLYING TO MTPP ARE REQUIRED TO BE ON AN ACTIVE IFR FLIGHTPLAN AND PRIOR TO DEPARTURE OBTAIN ARRIVAL SLOT TIMES FROM THE HAITI FLIGHT OPERATIONS COORDINATION CENTER AT 001-850-283-5477. ARRIVAL SLOT TIMES ARE VALID +/- 20 MINUTES OF THE SCHEDULED ARRIVAL TIME. IF UNABLE TO MEET SCHEDULED ARRIVAL SLOT TIMES, CONTACT THE HAITI FLIGHT OPERATIONS COORDINATION CENTER OR YOUR CONTROLLING AGENCY TO COORDINATE NEW SLOT TIMES. DEPARTURES FROM MTPP MUST COMPLY WITH NORMAL ATC PROCEDURES. ALL OPERATORS ARE ADVISED THAT FUEL AND OTHER GROUND SUPPORT SERVICES MAY BE UNAVAILABLE. WIE UNTIL UFN. CREATED: 16 JAN 16:00 2010

That is the official ICAO-released Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) concerning MTPP (Port au Prince Intl). The International Civil Aviation Organization and Carib states requested the US's support in running the airport...because they knew we had the capabilities to do it.

[MadBadger]

63. Being in Charge of the Airport is Occupying the Country??? My God, STFU.

Sounds like France is the one with the issue here.

[Captain Hilts]

78. Ain't THAT the truth. nt

[Wilms]

70. Jeremy Scahill: US "Security" Companies Offer "Services" in Haiti

The current US program under which armed security companies work for the State Department in Iraq—the Worldwide Personal Protection Program—has its roots in Haiti during the Clinton administration. In 1994, private US forces, such as DynCorp, became a staple of US operations in the country following the overthrow of Jean Bertrand Aristide by CIA-backed death squads. When President Bush invaded Iraq, his administration radically expanded that program and turned it into the privatized paramilitary force it is today. At the time of his overthrow in 2004, Aristide was being protected by a San Francisco-based private security firm, the Steele Foundation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7500602

http://rebelreports.com/post/341031627/us-security-companies-offer-services-in-haiti

[Leopolds Ghost]

91. There you go. nt

[pnwmom]

72. We should listen to France. They're the experts in occupying Haiti.

:shrug:

[blondeatlast]

97. Yup--they have nothing but humanitarian interest in Haiti, and would NEVER want to cover .

their part in a nearly fialed state before the quake.

:thumbsup:

[Captain Hilts]

77. We're closest and have the most stuff. nt

[bridgit]

83. There it is

[Captain Hilts]

95. Logistics is everything. nt

[mmonk]

96. Thanks. Bookmarked.