AC on CNN: 2nd Doctors Without Borders plane refused landing request tonight.

[Parker CA]

For the second night in a row a DWB plane is being refused landing requests. Last night the plane had to land in the DR and drive all supplies into Haiti.

Gov. Rendell on the other hand was able to negotiate a landing for a private flight to bring orphans back to PA. Tough call, but the orphans sound like they were safe and could have been cared for for a few more days where they were.

The medical supplies for the thousands of people dying were not allowed to land.

Double edged sword.

ETA: I don't know what the right choice is. Who can say? Seems odd though that DWB gets denied access to land twice while a gvmnt official works a way in.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. They were also going over how they

spent so much time om scene assessment instead of well, they don't understand bringing people willy nilly and freelancing.

I sent them an email on that... a long email mind you.

Now I know some of the decisions are POLITICAL... see landing VIPs who need to show ugly mug, and it happens in every disaster.

When they show up, well you got all kinds of other issues...

But they are not trying to dis France, though I expect the scrams by later tonight.

[mzmolly]

3. I hate to ask but would you mind posting the email?

If you still have it that is. I'm trying to learn and I appreciate your willingness to educate us N. :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I'll paraphrase since their system gets lost

Scene assessment does things such as buildings, infrastructure, inroad, and prioritizes what needs to be done where.

ON a smaller scene, like a car crash you are looking for dangers such as gas on ground. power lines down, fires, jagged objects, and other dangers. Scale this up to this mess, and you are looking for damage patterns to tell you where your teams have the best chance to find victims. Your scouts are also looking for access points, and also starting to look for where you can set distribution points and talking to the locals to see what they think needs done.

I also told them that we really do not know how those decisions are made but it is not just to play favorites and offered to do this for them, without a political sword, and called them for not calling Honore on some of the things he's said so far.

[Parker CA]

22. AC was ranting about the fact that no one knows who is in control, but he wants to dig into that.

Maybe tomorrow? Chaos will continue to reign until order can be established. Unfortunately it's not a rapid-sequence process.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Actually it is going to get worst for two reasons

1.- all the children are coming in with a lot of egos. Yes I love NGOs but I hate NGOs... especially the really SMALL ones... especially since they come in, don't tell anybody where they are, and many a times replicate things... did I mention egos? And what you are seeing with the finger pointing is exactly that. Imagine that by orders of magnitude on the ground. I really do not envy whoever is in charge... keeping the children playing nice will be ahem interesting.


2.- They have not been able to really penetrate beyond port au prince. Once they do, it is going to be bad.

The second wave is going to be really nasty... and yes people are dying preventable deaths, but things in the long term, like all those amputees, that is a nightmare nobody is even talking about in a serious manner. In third world countries amputees have little prospects, and prosthesis are a piece of your and my imagination.

The Mexican Red Cross ran a special program for that after the quake, it ran for ten years

[mzmolly]

36. Not to mention getting food and water

to people. I just don't understand why a plan for handling international disasters is not in place? ie. X is in charge of Y and so on. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying things but...

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Actually there is, all this is being coordinated

in theory through the UN, who is getting a list of who is sending what so they can prioritize.

It is the extent of this, the scope that is a pain.

But the UN body coordinating so we do not get too many hospitals and not enough water purification plans was one of the lessons of the tsunami.

The Carrier, the USS Vinson, what do you think it is making? Water. It is also your fuel place for choppers, and things like that.

There are other Navies bringing water purification units.

So actually as chaotic as this looks, it is better than it could be... and the finger pointing is par for the course.

Water and food, they're up scaling every day... and here is the true reality of this. There are a few areas that WILL NEVER be reached by teams, for whatever reason.

[mzmolly]

48. But how is the water reaching people?

:shrug:

Great info thanks!

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. the UN is taking trucks to distribution centers

the USN and other Militaries are taking choppers, now that the boots are on the ground, to LZs where they are unloading. and today, due to the really isolated areas, they actually did an airdrop... if they went there, they NEEDED to do this because the risk is very high of getting people on the ground killed.

[mzmolly]

59. I wondered about doing more air drops?

I know that there is a danger in that as well, but it seems that push is coming to shove, very quickly.

Thanks again for the info.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Early on I was going that is nuts

but it is getting to that point.

I am wondering if they will do EMRATS...

These are nice yellow plastic bags with high energy bars and other sustaining things for a person, on a chute...

But that is the AF choice

[TheWraith]

67. Those usually work best in sparsely populated areas.

If the little chutes fail--and some of them ALWAYS do--the falling packages could kill people, particularly since there's now no safe structures to take refuge in. If I were running the ops I might be inclined to take the risk, though bombing a friendly city (even with peanut butter) is risky. And there's still no guarantee they could deploy meaningfully more supplies that way, since one of the big bottlenecks is getting the stuff TO Haiti. That I have no idea about. Hence the current strategy of helicopter deployments, trucks, and drop points.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. I know terminal velocity and all that

they did an actual, honest to goodness low level air drop today... not what people think one is... (your choppers) We are both talking the technical language.

So here is the balance, terminal velocity from EMRATS, or what is 20 ton crate?

The fact they did it today told me where things are... in some ways.

[TheWraith]

82. Assuming one Humanitarian Daily Ration, and 16 ounces of water...

...not nearly enough water for that climate, but assuming that as a minimum...

You'd be talking a terminal velocity of about 22 feet per second unbraked.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I know... breaks bones, including the skull

I know...

[mzmolly]

88. Check out this post as it pertains directly to the conversation we're having.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7502815&mesg_id=7503195

[mzmolly]

72. Such a complicated

situation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. This is, not kidding, one of the most complex

disaster responses I have seen. And I thought the Tsunami was bad.

I had similar issues with TJ, except I had a border.

We had ONE airport with one access road...

And of course we assumed that if we were down, so was the US...

And don't get me started with San Diego Airport, and where it is built.

But as I said, we had roads, access roads and were connected to a continent. That makes a huge difference.

Oh and I forget, a plan... that was the plan, when we wrote it. Never implemented, and I hope it never is.

[mzmolly]

76. I admit it's tough to understand. People are sending money

to organizations to help, and it appears that relief is so sparse. It's so sad and frustrating to witness. I don't recall ever seeing a disaster of this magnitude.

CNN pointed out that during the Tsunami, people were either dead or alive. There were no bodies laying under rubble, no crush wounds to deal with etc. which made priorities a bit easier to distinguish I suppose?

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Earthquakes are the worst challenge ever

and this is something that people are also having a huge problem understanding living our comfortable lives in the US.

We really do not think about things like antibiotics (well except people without insurance)

And yes people still die in the US due to lack of that... but in places like Haiti people have really poor access to health care, if any during regular times. And things like dengue, malaria, TB and HIV have high rates.

Also you have all the issues with malnutrition. If you have a patient who is well fed with a crush injury, they will have a better chance to survive than somebody on the edge of starvation.

Oh and antibiotics... even before the quake, people died from a compound fracture and no antibiotics...

There are political reasons for this, but that make things that much harder.

To me the fighting and finger pointing... is a good sign... it happens every time about this stage of the game when things are going well.

[mzmolly]

81. I guess

I'll try to look at things from your perspective on the things going well point. Thank you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Take into account it is also the very dark

view from having done some of this...

But usually when things are going disastrously wrong, see Katrina... the finger pointing starts by day 2...

And the ICRC reported today that while the situation is catastrophic some of the aid is starting to be felt.

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/haiti-earthquake-update-180110

I had to go to the Mexican media to find it and then I went to the source. And the ICRC is pretty much matter of fact.

[mzmolly]

87. Check this post out N.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7502815&mesg_id=7503195

I'm concerned that violence will come soon and derail efforts to help if food and water are not supplied ASAP. I'm very glad that aid is starting to materialize.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. I know about it and it does have it's serious down side

yes, some chutes fail, and yes, some of the EMRATS do reach terminal velocity... they will use them if they do... as truly a last measure. We are getting close to that point, and you may see it in 24 hours... since they did an honest to goodness air drop today. I don't mean short haul chopper jaunts, the technical definition of one. Though I suspect that is done for the second airport they are going to put up.

[mzmolly]

95. The article suggests that the down side can be minimized

greatly if done right. I hope someone is listening to speak?

[mzmolly]

70. That seems it would make sense.

:shrug:

[jbnow]

93. They have been doing air drops for a few days... some branch of our service

(Navy?) but it sounds like without actually having permission to do it. I know Gates said it was too dangerous to do the drops but I think he was referring to people fighting over it.
But the helicopters started doing it. (Maybe they thought dehydration and hunger were worse threats!) The helicopter would hover until everyone moved away and then made drops. There was some pushing to get to the things and some of the moms were holding babies... but no one was hurt and people shared what they got.

Here is what gets to me...when TV is interviewing someone and they say "They have no bandages or antibiotics left" and discuss how horrible it is. I wish they would say "We have gotten a report to the airport where the supplies are (or wherever) but they usually don't say anything like that. I have to believe they are doing that but I wish they would note that

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. We were talking of the technical definition of an air drop

involving a large plane, nets and all that.

These are short haul, helo drops.

Sorry, but I wanted to clarify this for you...

[Captain Hilts]

109. USN and the 82nd are doing the drops of stuff. Yes, the danger is on the ground because of fighting

[Hannah Bell]

98. since there were over 3000 ngos in haiti before the earthquake & they ran whatever social services

existed, i guess they're used to it.

haiti has the world's highest concentration of ngos per capita.

[mzmolly]

24. Thank you. I can't imagine the situation not becoming more desperate

if something doesn't change SOON. :(

[Parker CA]

6. I don't think anyone is intentionally dissing one group or the other, but to think of all of the

supplies they have with them being rerouted for a second time, after a scheduled landing time was given, just seems awful.

ETA: N, your insights and updates on all of this from the beginning have been great to read and follow, so thank you. I've learned a lot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. You welcome

over here we are in the lull between two storms... it was NASTY earlier... and it will get nasty.

[Abq_Sarah]

26. I read at CNN

That they only have one runway, one tarmac and one ramp for all aircraft. They have a two hour window to land, unload and take off again. Delays on the ground will cause aircraft to be diverted.

[TheWraith]

39. Yes, that's correct.

The airport is the bottleneck for all relief ops right now.

Also, they're probably prioritizing large Air Force transports bringing in food and supplies over smaller passenger planes when they decide who gets to land.

[tabatha]

7. Do you think it may have to do with cargo handling?

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. That would be my best guest not being there

but they had to do this with the ICRC hospital too.

[mzmolly]

2. I heard that.

WTF?

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Stick with that point AC... host government

and the host government is not precisely one that does this shtick of taking care of its people in regular times, but you STILL need to work with the host government

[MercutioATC]

5. Many busy events require a "reservation" to land.

Disclaimer:

1) I don't know if a reservation system is being used in Haiti, but it seems likely.

2) I don't know whether the DWB plane had a reservation (if they're being used).


I'm just suggesting that there may be a perfectly logical logistical reason for the denial.

[Parker CA]

8. They were given an 8pm landing time and then they were denied. nt.

[sandnsea]

12. Who was on the ground before them?

The only reason planes are denied landing is if the flight before them has taken too long to unload.

[Parker CA]

16. They didn't go into those details. I have no idea.

[quiller4]

42. C 17s were on runway waiting to unload vehicles and medical supplies.

The flights originated at McChord and picked up additional supplies at Langley. After off-loading supplies they loaded passengers including carried 180 wounded Haitians carrying them to Orlando.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

90. Local news talked about Chinese hogging the ramp for photo op

It's probably true -- this is not a casual photograph -- it takes a lot of time and equipment to illuminate a 747 at night, in addition to backlighting the sign holders.



http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2010-01/17/c_13140079.htm

[MercutioATC]

21. Well, the airport has a max capacity of 17 planes on the ground....

...and they've been parking 40 at a time.


If somebody didn't clear a spot in time...or if a higher-priority flight arrived...they might well have been denied clearance to land.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

99. Did they arrive in time and what was happening on the airport at the time?

I suspect one of the reasons that they have been waved off is not meeting the time slot or not having the required fuel on board if they came direct from Europe. Also is there is no room on the field for any number of reasons, they could be waved off.

I tend to think its most likely not following the NOTAM requirements

[BeFree]

10. There better be

There damn sure better be a damn good reason for the denial.

[MercutioATC]

23. I'm sure there was a reason.

Whether or not YOU would agree with that reason, I have no idea.

[BeFree]

28. Heh

would you agree with it if it wasn't?

[MercutioATC]

31. If it wasn't WHAT?

??

[Parker CA]

34. You're 100% correct. What that reason was, we'll never know, but at least things are getting in.

[WolverineDG]

69. Someone posted something earlier today about that

I can't find it now though :( but it was very informative, including giving planes specific times to land, & makes me even more impatient with the 404th Chairborne.

dg

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Don;t worry the 404th can be counted to man up

every time!

:-)

All I can do at this point is laugh...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

102. It does, there is more as well, check the NOTAM

Haitians are reported to be running approach control, they may be turning planes away as well

[HeresyLives]

9. The one group known and trusted world-wide.....

and them they keep out. :eyes:

[sandnsea]

20. They landed 4, diverted 2 to Dominican Republic

Avril: We have had 4 cargo flights that successfully have flown to Port-au-Prince, with a total tonnage of 135. We have 2 cargo flights that flew to Dominican Republic with their total tonnage being 65. At the moment we have 6 cargo flights planned for the rest of this week, with a total tonnage of 195.

http://doctorswithoutborders.org/publications/article.cfm?id=4169&cat=transcript&ref=related-sidebar

[TheWraith]

40. One? Are you making a joke?

Have you ever heard of the International Committee of the Red Cross?

[HeresyLives]

47. I said trusted...world-wide.

The Red Cross is not.

[TheWraith]

63. Either you ARE joking, or you're just being a joke. nt

[sandnsea]

11. Hundreds of flights a day

and one gets diverted. This is not a crisis.

[Parker CA]

14. This is the second time in two days DWB was diverted, the second time w/ a given landing time.

[quiller4]

32. But 6 DWB planes landed today and one was diverted. Even

the military planes coming in with water and food have been ordered to circle. For Gods sakes this is an airport that, prior to the quake, handled 20-30 flights daily with a fully functional tower. Now it is handling 200+ with a makeshift tower.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Makeshift tower is a folding table, and a radio

that is what it is.

[HeresyLives]

15. It's not one diversion.

There has already been an uproar over aid flights being diverted for troop landings, and this is the second time this group has been diverted. They have surgical hospitals on board.

[sandnsea]

37. I know. 3 over the weekend, 2 today

This is overblown bullshit.

And how do you suppose the ports will get repaired if we don't get troops on the ground?

ALL of it is important.

[HeresyLives]

43. Troops on the ground don't repair anything,

much less ports.

[TheWraith]

51. I take it you've never heard of a RED HORSE Squadron.

Basically they are rapid deployment engineering teams. They go into operational zones and they build stuff. Fast. Like hospitals, airports, bridges, and yeah, makeshift ports.

Good money says that when the port gets operational again, RED HORSE will be behind it.

[Parker CA]

54. I heard a couple days ago a team was going in to build the port up fast. Must be the RH team.

Impressive is the capability they have to build these kinds of things so quickly.

[PavePusher]

60. Please, don't be ignorant. n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

100. You must not be reading what the "troops" are doing

Its not like we airlifted in the 1st Armored Division.

[quiller4]

46. Read the doctors w/o borders response. They got 2 diversions in 2 days

and 5 landings one day, 4 the next. Doctors w/o borders understands and accepts this. They have been on radio and TV trying to quiet the complainers.

[mzmolly]

73. Just thought of this but could it have something to do with the Belgian doctors leaving

due to a lack of security yesterday? I wonder if they're trying to get security in place, first due to that incident?

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. YES...

that is what all those troops are for... well some are for.

Today CNN showed a clip of a rescue with the IDF... they actually showed for a second the guy from the team tasked with security, loaded for bear... one shutgun and one assault rifle.

[Turborama]

18. Rendell's plane was filled with physicians, nurses and aid workers

According to the second article: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4231109

I agree that refusing DWB planes is ridiculous, most likely has cost lives and I can't fathom why it's happening.

[Parker CA]

29. Good to know they were bringing people in. There was no mention of that on CNN. Either way,

it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Someone is always going to get left out, diverted, denied, whatnot. Sucks, but I guess this is the reality of chaos.

[HeresyLives]

38. There shouldn't BE any chaos in the rescue team.

[quiller4]

50. It is obvious you have never done this kind of work. It doesn't

matter how well or often you drill, there is always a measure of chaos in emergency work. I was a Red Cross flood volunteer for years. Coping with chaos and change is part of relief wokr.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. amen brother!!!

[Maru Kitteh]

61. There shouldn't be any chaos????

[TheWraith]

44. They aren't refusing DWB planes.

They've landed four of them already. But two DWB flights were diverted to the Dominican Republic for unspecified reasons, probably due to overcrowding at the airport. Even USAF transports are being delayed going in and out, and they have high priority.

[HeresyLives]

49. And why do USAF transports have high priority?

This is precisely what people are complaining about.

[TheWraith]

57. Because those are what's bringing in food, water, and medicine.

One small DWB plane with 32 tons of cargo is less important than a USAF C-17 carrying 85 tons of cargo.

DWB agrees with this, because they're among the ones saying that the flight diversions are no big deal.

[Sgent]

96. Because airforce planes are designed

for this situation.

They don't need ground based services to unload their cargo, take much less time to turn around (unload), and carry much more cargo.

[SidDithers]

105. +1...

good post.

Sid

[Captain Hilts]

108. They also have STOL capabilities and can turn on a dime on a runway. Even C-5s. nt

[Captain Hilts]

107. They are bringing heavy equipment and supplies. nt

[jtylerpittman]

25. that is to bad but you have to have troops there to for security as well as aid

[quiller4]

27. Actually Rendell negotiated getting orphans on to a private plane

that was in Haiti because it had been chartered to bring in supplies.

[Parker CA]

35. That's good to know. It's now clear the story was being reported without all the details. nt

[flyarm]

30. I am in Tampa area..hdqrs of Centcom, a big group of nurses and medical supplies and ground medical

techs were supposed to leave last night..they have been on stand by since last Wednesday, on our news this morning they said they were leaving this morning.Now tonight they said they didn't go and would not be leaving till the morning..and yet our Congressman was there in Haiti this morning..he was doing his Pr shit from the ground in Haiti..but these medical response teams did not go..nor all the equipment they have.

These huge teams of medical people are ..in the field response medical teams ..to get people to surgeries and medical care teams. And they have been sitting on stand by..and supposed to leave for sure last night..and didn't go..then didn't go this morning ..when they were ready to go..and now are held off till morning..but political people are getting there??????

wtf is going on???????? people who need desparate care are not getting it.

As Doctor Gupta said preventible deaths are occuring..and yet Centcom can't even get medical people there..why..wtf is going on???????

People are dying for lack of medical care..critical care..but don't worry..our polititicans are there!

My heart breaks for those people and I am angry.

[HeresyLives]

41. Too much PR, not enough rescue.

I've always thot politicians, movie stars, media 'glam stars' and so on should be kept out of such disasters so that rescue teams can do their work unhindered.

Otherwise it turns into a 3 ring circus, and people die.

[sandnsea]

55. Political people go on cargo planes

They do not bump anybody necessary. Were you resigning the Presidency this week to take command of the rescue operations and the entire Southern Command?

[flyarm]

97. not in this case..Randall of Pa went in today..eom

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Disasters is like war, hurry up and wait

and he brought in supplies and guess what? Nurses and doctors, you think that was an empty plane?

I don't like to have VIPs for OTHER reasons at an emergency scene, mostly they add to the chaos... but they come loaded for bear.

[TorchTheWitch]

83. politicians and reporters are going by helicopter

and they have no need to go through the airport at all. Although politicians are probably hitching rides with military flights since they probably require military security with them on the ground and won't be carting around massive amounts of supplies. It's easy to get in a handful of people with basically nothing more than a camera or the shirts on the backs. The problem with getting in flights through the airport is that it's tiny and they have no tower, proper off-loading equipment, fuel, trained handlers, adequate storage, etc.

Here's a good explanation of what the logistics of dealing with this airport are...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/18/826200/-Airport-Ground-Operations-101

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. Rendell actually came on a plane wiht personnel and equipment

and left with kids

After that, absolutely... as I told her, I don't like VIPs for many reasons, you pointed to one of them... pesky security, but they usually come loaded for bear.

[TorchTheWitch]

91. yeah I read that

A big name politician can get things in and get people out. I seem to recall Gore doing something similar during Katrina. Bush wouldn't bring so much as a box of bandaids to distribute.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. Yeah Gore brought a plane and did a Medevac

early on

[happy_liberal]

111. People are dying for lack of medical care,critical care..but don't worry,our polititicans are there

+100000

you speak for many of us "My heart breaks for those people and I am angry"

[AzNick]

53. DWB = French

French media reported several times that the French in general were intimidated and pushed out by the Americans, basically to get out from in front of the camera.

It's obvious that it's about geopolitical influence.

Yet of all nations the French feel the most guilt about the state Haiti is in and are the most willing of all Western nations to do good in Haiti.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Fortunately Doctors without Borders gets why this is happening

and not politics.

That said this is happening RIGHT ON TIME.

Dime on the dollar if somebody else was in control of the airport you'd have charges anyhow... why? It happens every time.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

101. If they are the most willing of all western nations to do good in Haiti, what is the French Gov

doing and contributing?

MSF (correct name for DWB) is a private group, and seems unwilling to go with the process that others are following or show much in the way of understanding of the CF at the airport. They do seem more than willing to issue critical press releases with clear undertones of nationalism. Nadinbrzezinski is right about the child factor in all of this (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7502743&mesg_id=7502885).

When MSF shows that they complied with all the terms of the NOTAM, the airport had room, and they were still turned away, then and only then should we bother with their complaints.

[AzNick]

103. The French gov has sent firefighters and help

Don't forget France is far away from Haiti and maintains only an episodic, low key presence in the area.

Florida is *right there* it took less than two days for Vinson to arrive.

France currently only has one carrier (the CDG) and its main purpose is European defense.

France has sent quite a bit of aid but not as much as they wished they could.


http://www.ptinews.com/news/469170_Obama--Sarkozy-to-organise-Haiti-conference--Elysee

[ProgressiveProfessor]

106. The link does not address that, but thats OK, the M$M is not covering everybody

Hopefully the phone call and teleconference today means that Sarkozy will get his minions to quit whining.

If I sound a bit grumpy, it was not a pleasant night here in SoCal...so I will apologize ahead of time.

[AzNick]

110. The MSM did the same when French troops saved Americans in Ivory Coast

During the Ivorian civil war (a few years ago), the French went to save a couple hundred Americans besieged in a boarding school for missionaries and their children and delivered them to American troops still in their planning phase of the "rescue operation". They were planning a big thing with cameras and lots of "go! go! go!" action from spec ops.

The French troops just went it, took everybody out, then raced back to the airport shooting at everyone pointing a weapon in their direction and delivered the civilians to a very pissed off American colonel.

The American MSM covered it as a bit major American operation with some help from the French.

Meanwhile the French media was showing the freed civilians holding French flags and chanting "vive la France!"

Seriously, two sides, two stories.

[WolverineDG]

66. 1 runway, 1 ramp, no ATC except by radio

WTF do you want them to do? Throw the airport open to all comers?

They've got 1 hour to offload small planes, 2 hours to offload larger jets. The control tower is still down, so they're doing ATC by radio. They can't let another plane land until one has taken off...planes having to roll out onto the grass to get out of the way of planes taxiing to the runway for take-off or landing...sometimes equipment breaks down, causing further delays. Inbound aircraft sometimes arrives late & loses its slot.

Yet despite all of this, 600 flights HAVE landed since Wednesday, & still the 404th Chairborne refuses to acknowledge that the folks on the ground are working their asses off 24/7 & are quite possibly very aware that every plane is loaded with personnel & equipment that is very much needed. I've yet to hear a whiner either (a) volunteer to go run the show themselves, since they *are* the experts or (b) come up with a better plan, other than "let everything land."

dg

[tammywammy]

68. +1 n/t

[madrchsod]

78. +2

[sandnsea]

79. +1000000 n/t

[mmonk]

104. Are they on the approved list?

[truth2power]

112. I gave my donation to DWB-US. Called them one evening

and charged it to my credit card.

I'm very concerned that they're being refused landing requests. Seems like they should be one of the top priorities. Why couldn't the orphans have been driven to DR and had a private plane pick them up from there?

Time isn't of the essence like it is for medical supplies etc.