Haiti takeover by ‘Uncle Sam’

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Newsday

Haiti takeover by ‘Uncle Sam’
Tuesday, January 19 2010

THE international effort to deliver humanitarian aid to the victims of last week’s Port-au-Prince earthquake was hit by bickering yesterday as a French government minister accused the Americans of trying to occupy Haiti instead of helping it.

Thousands of American soldiers have poured into Port-au-Prince airport since US President Barack Obama announced he was ordering a “swift and aggressive” campaign to help millions of Haitians left homeless by last week’s 7.0 magnitude earthquake.

Six days after the quake, however, precious little aid is getting beyond the airport perimeters — largely because of security concerns — and aid agencies with long experience of operating in disaster zones have complained that their flights in are being blocked unnecessarily.

Among the aircraft turned back by American air traffic controllers who have assumed control at Port-au-Prince airport was a French government Airbus carrying a field hospital.



Read more: http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,114401.html

[Why Syzygy]

1. Is anyone shocked by this? nt

[Tx4obama]

2. A bunch of BS

SO ....

Who went in and got the airport functional? THE USA
Who set up traffic control? THE USA
Who has raised the most money for relief aid? THE USA
Who has sent the most rescue crews? THE USA

Who now is taking the heat and getting bashed the most? The USA

Btw, the French Airbus that was carrying a field hospital was not permanently denied landing privileges, the landing was only delayed until the next day or was it a few hours later in the day? One of the two .. but they did land.

PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE!

All the BITCHING is getting out of hand!

Remember President Obama said at the beginning of the crisis that Haiti is in OUR hemisphere and it falls upon The USA to do all we can to help them out. It makes the most sense that we THE USA would be the first ones there and work with Haiti to organize the relief efforts instead of another country that is half-way around the world.

[Proletariatprincess]

7. I'm not so sure about the BS....

The US seems overly concerned about security just like it was in NOLA. Remember this is the same country that couldn't save it own major american city. Other nations and NGO's have more experience in this area than the USA. Why would Doctors without borders be blocked from landing? Or the Cuban Medical teams...or Brazil...or many others?
USAers just love patting themselves on that back about how generous we are, but when Marines are the first sent to a disaster zone I question whether everything looks like a nail when you have the biggest hammer the world has ever seen.
Every aspect of our system of government is dysfunctional....why so defensive about this now? Think we will do this any better? I have big doubts about that and the more I read the less confidence I have that the USA will come out of this as heroic as it aspires to be.

[Tx4obama]

11. Would YOU...

Would you go into a devastated county that has NO POLICE, NO SECURITY AT ALL ... where there are TENS of thousands of hungry homeless people if you were a DOCTOR, NURSE, RESCUE WORKER, ETC.? I think not. Security is a very important part of any relief mission.

Do you want the Haitians to revolt and take over the airport?
Do you want the Haitians to storm the airport and take it over?
Do you want the Haitians to storm the airport and ransack the food, water, and medical supplies?

That is what would happen if there wasn't security there to maintain law and order.

And don't forget that there are 4,000 prison inmates that escaped the Haiti prison that are still out there lose causing havoc.

The military DID need to land first... they were the ones that got the airport in shape and operational ... they were the ones that set up the air traffic control... etc.

If you are not supporting the USA then why don't you just move to Russia or Iran or some other country that doesn't like us? We don't need your negativity and unAmerican BS!

It's arm-chair critics like you that give the USA a bad name.

Think about it ....

[ronnie624]

16. The U.S. gives itself a bad name

by brutalizing small, defenseless countries like Haiti, to exploit their resources.

U.S. citizens without a moral awareness of their government's conduct are no help either.

[Tx4obama]

18. Haiti has NO resources.... that is why they are such a poor country to begin with. n/t

[carla]

31. BS.

You argue from ignorance. Haiti was a veritable cornucopia before the French arrived and stole much of Haiti's wealth. The US has continued the tradition of stealing Haitian resources and demanding that Haiti become nothing more than a sweatshop for American manufacturing. You are so full of pride that you can't even see what is obvious. Go jingo somewhere else...

[FlyingTiger]

53. And you think that's what we've been doing for the past week?

"You there! I see your leg was broken by the earthquake. That means your arms are still fully functional! Begin working on this assembly line IMMEDIATELY, or our Marines will shoot your other leg!"

Come on.

[Why Syzygy]

124. They are after the human resources

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/us/21immig.html

[Mr Rabble]

58. That is totally incorrect. In fact, that is the opposite of true.

Haiti was one of the richest places on Earth, and therefore has always been the target of imperial powers. For the last 100 years, it has been our target.

I would suggest you do some rudimentary research about how Haiti came to be in such dire straights before you make baseless assertions.

[Syntheto]

41. Everybody knows the whole story...

...of the relationship between the US and Haiti... there is nothing new that comes out; only people that think they have secret and esoteric knowledge of the 'real' history and have the annoying habit of trying to 'educate' everyone else (who already know) in an effort to justify their own problems with America.

Okay, we get it... yeah, bad things have happened to Haiti and as a result of external meddling, diplomatic isolation, sanctions and so on, as well as their own internal racist hatred of White people... Is racism ever justified? If it's against America (read White America) then any sort of racism is justified... again, okay, we get it... There, we covered all of Haiti's history from inception to today. One freaking paragraph.

Now, there's a catastrophe in Haiti and America is the one saving the place... That's what's happening today, in 2010... the rest of that stuff is irrelevant to this immediate situation.

Focus, focus... there will be plenty of the usual nonsense coming up after the fact, and new stories will come out and the armchair generals will be able to second-guess America's effort, which, especially in the Guardian and Independent will somehow show malfeasance and cynicism on the part of the USA.

We get it... it's the usual, knee-jerk reaction to anything America does.

Sorry, all you young pluggers out there who can't mention our country without having to add the proviso about how bad America is - America is a good place, with good people. Why don't you all take a break from the party line and stand up and say "Yeah, I'm an American, and I'm proud of it... Look what we're doing in Haiti today, with this terrible disaster... I've never been prouder of my country."

[ronnie624]

72. Most U.S. Americans know absolutely nothing about Haiti.

Most, by far, could not find the country on an unlabeled globe if their lives depended on it. A sizable percentage can't even find North America.

Your one-paragraph history of Haiti says nothing except that your intention is to perpetuate ignorance. The United States has never, EVER helped Haiti even one time in its entire history. Quite the opposite, in fact; blockade, invasion, mass murder, support of tyrants, deposing democratic leaders, depletion of resources, and perhaps worst of all, the systematic destruction of the country's ability to feed itself. A country capable of producing a huge variety of fruits and vegetables, has been deliberately forced by U.S. foreign policies to become totally dependent on imports for food. Imagine that, deliberately destroying another country's food security in the name of profit for foreign elites. No wonder an overwhelming majority of the earth's population consider the United States government the biggest threat to global security. And no wonder, after reading your message, that so many regard U.S. Americans as ugly.

We do not deserve a pat on the back for doing all we can to help Haitians in their time of dire need. There is absolutely nothing to be proud of. WE OWE IT TO THEM. And based on the brutal history of intervention by the U.S. in Latin America and the Caribbean, there is absolutely no reason to trust our government's motives.

[Hannah Bell]

81. "If it's against America (read White America) then any sort of racism is justified." wtf?

[EFerrari]

103. Their internal racist hatred of white people?

:wtf:

[inna]

117. what garbage.

:thumbsdown:

[Cha]

99. US Citizens who don't have a clue

what they're talking about don't add anything.

[flamingdem]

113. To be fair UNCLE SAM also has a big target on his back nt

[tango-tee]

116. You made some good points, but there are two sentences which kill your post..

I truly believe that you mean well and that your points were written in a state of great frustration, but here are the two sentences:

"If you are not supporting the USA then why don't you just move to Russia or Iran or some other country that doesn't like us? We don't need your negativity and unAmerican BS!"

That is such hopeless bullshit. Have we reached the with-us-or-against-us point yet again, which in this case is completely off the mark, especially in the face of such a disaster where countries from all over the world are trying to help? And what was that remark in another post of yours in this thread where you wrote it was in "OUR" HEMISPHERE? What the fuck? Over.

[bc3000]

12. Overly concerned about security?!

Perhaps you should read another article from that same newspaper: http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,114393.html

ANARCHY
Tuesday, January 19 2010

EARTHQUAKE ravaged Haiti is descending into anarchy, even as aid pours into the country, with widespread looting taking place in parts of the ruined capital Port-au-Prince and surrounding towns. Lynch mobs have turned on armed looters with one man hanged by an angry mob who then dragged his naked body through the streets before setting it on fire.

[EFerrari]

104. Do you get all your news from racist rightwing rags?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. So is the SecGen of the UN

You also need to read up on who the US sent and the procedures being followed at the airport.

[alarimer]

66. And the abuses by FEMA were astonishing then.

Read Zeitoun by Dave Eggars for one account. This poor guy was locked up for weeks with no phone calls or access to a lawyer.

When policing is done by the military or national guard, you will have abuses. And as long as the US MILITARY is in charge in Haiti, there will likely be huge abuses there as well. The military is essentially a fascistic organization.

And fuck-ups will be on Obama's head this time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. That is why the USN is treating people on board the med bay of the USS Vinson

tell you what, when we have a disaster you will be howling where the hell are they?

[bc3000]

8. Good post

The US is doing the right thing now.

If people want to complain, they should complain that we've done so little before now.

[Tx4obama]

22. I agree, and thank you. n/t

[EFerrari]

17. This hemisphere doesn't belong to us and we weren't the first ones there. n/t

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rebubula]

39. LOLZ

What the hell are you talking about?

Please come back when you can be more coherent.

[carla]

30. So, you have been on the ground

in Haiti? Or are you just spewing USGov propaganda and blowing your triumphalist trumpet? BS is your version. What others are reporting is very different.

[Leopolds Ghost]

50. "USA USA!" Wrong. According to sandnsea, 6 rescue crews are US total. They've rescued 30 Haitians.

Total.

They've also rescued and evacuated 3,000 American citizens.

[Leopolds Ghost]

55. We've dropped a total of 3 pallets of medicine and 30 (?) pallets of water.

Might as well call it a day since anyone still alive at this point no longer needs search, rescue OR emergency hydration, they've found other sources from relief orgs coming in overland from DR.

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. Wrong if you cared to research like I don't know the UN

sources, you'd know we have distributed 200, 000 rations JUST TODAY and expect to reach a million very soon.

Perhaps go read the ICRC site.

The air drops were done in isolated areas AFTER the Army secured the LZ to shit avoid injuries... which is what I said a few days ago they needed to do.

Oh and I mean humanitarian teams

You'd also know that the UN is in charge of humanitarian relief in coordination with the HOST country. Last time I checked that is NOT the US.

[TxRider]

77. 6 rescue teams of 70 people each, 420 search and rescue people

And that was old news.

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. 1.700 rescue people as of this morning

no that is not a majority, not even in my math addled mind.

Some teams travel light, others travel heavy... but that is life

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. Some corrections

SO ....

Who went in and got the airport functional? THE USA

Yes


Who set up traffic control? THE USA

Yes


Who has raised the most money for relief aid? THE USA

No, not just the USA... also you got to take into account the world populaton is sending money and ahem supplies. WE ARE NOT ALONE.

Who has sent the most rescue crews? THE USA

Wrong actually. We are not fielding the 30+ teams...

Who now is taking the heat and getting bashed the most? The USA

That goes with being an empire and a long history. Now don't get me wrong this is a piece of shit, of an article, but the US is NOT alone on this... and all that self congratulatory BS is one of the reasons the US gets those problems.


PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE!

The pros get that, hurry up and wait.

All the BITCHING is getting out of hand!

Agreed

Remember President Obama said at the beginning of the crisis that Haiti is in OUR hemisphere and it falls upon The USA to do all we can to help them out. It makes the most sense that we THE USA would be the first ones there and work with Haiti to organize the relief efforts instead of another country that is half-way around the world.

Actually the relief effort is under the command of the UN. We are the LOGISTICS side.

Oh and it is under the HOST government agreement, sufferance, however you want to put it.

[Turborama]

3. Have the French offered to assist with security?

Just askin'. Even if they did, it would have made matters worse, considering Haiti's history.

[ronnie624]

9. The brutish occupation of 1915-1934

is much fresher in the Haitian national consciousness.

The United States must help Haiti, and that help must necessarily include providing security. But the U.S. has a particularly ugly history of interventionism that leads right up to the current time. The U.S. foreign policy apparatus has never acted on behalf of the Haitian people. Skepticism is definitely warranted.

[arthritisR_US]

76. I don't think that would be a good idea, I really don't. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. The UN has requested 3000 more blue helmets

half cops, half military

[Turborama]

112. I posted the news that they've voted for 3,500 in LBN

But it dropped off page 1 quite quickly, for some reason: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4231601

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. I posted the links to the coverage from the BBC

you know news not disaster porn... that ain't popular either.

And Sorry that I was off by 500

Mexico sent 100 cops for this and seventy to protect their embassy. Dime on the dollar those 100 are getting roped in... I mean Mexico requested the meeting.

[sandnsea]

4. We just spent hours debunking this shit

Go to GD & GDP, there are several threads about why this is complete crap. There is a real vile illness with so many people desperately seeking anything they can cling to that is negative about this country. Quite bizarre.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7502743

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7503340

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7503261

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7502815&mesg_id=7502815

[Leopolds Ghost]

51. Debunking how? Your own statistics prove the OP.

6 American rescue crews vs. 27 international crews.

100 Haitians total rescued.

3,000 American citizens rescued and repatriated.

By the way, US medical corps is only quasi-military, like the Peace Corps.
I'm sure many of those 500 people are with the NGOs.

They have no field hospitals to operate in because none have been set up yet.

[TxRider]

62. You seriously believe that?

I guess the military should have embedded reporters so you could see in detail what they are doing.

The US is working out of the Haitian coast guard base medical facilities among other facilities, flying out casualties, delivering tons of supplies, and setting up for the long haul of feeding the people for the next few months.

Supplies are being ferried from the mainland to Guantanamo bay, within helicopter range of Haiti, and being picked up and delivered to Haiti by helicopter.

Navy divers and salvage teams are already working on getting the port operational.

Water treatment plants are already being set up.

The ships on site have offloaded their stores of food, and 200,000 bottles of water.

Just because the reporters who squeezed in are more into detailing the sensational doesn't mean we don't have thousands of people there trying to save as many lives as possible.

With an airfield only capable of the 100 flights a day wer are getting in and out, and hundreds more flights wanting in, the griping doesn't help.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. You can't be serious when you say no field hospitals have been set yo

Just from memory...

IDF has set one

THe ICRC has one

And Doctors without Borders has one... in strategic zones.

Like as of four days ago.

So what if none is run by us?

Is this that nationalistic crap we see regularly?

Oh and by the way the Vinson's Med Bay has been in use 24\7, now that the Bataan is there, that one is being used, dime on dollar and the Mexican Navy arrived with another Medical Ship like oh yesterday. The Comfort comes in oh Today.

I know we should be able to like use them teleporters and everything, but it takes time.

[Countdown_3_2_1]

5. Obama is Commander in Chief. No Occupation.

The good guys are in control. besides its not like there is oil or anything there.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Turborama]

23. "Obama could not care less about the Haitian people" Bullshit!

You're just randomly speculating about Obama's motives based on what has happened under previous Presidents.

[JTFrog]

33. Yes, Obama is going to make them all slaves.

:wtf:

WTF is wrong with people around here?

[Andronex]

71. At 38 cents an hour...

At 38 cents an hour they are already slaves, and the Obama administration is sending the military there to ensure that it's business as usual. The Lavalas party would win the next election if it was allowed to run but law and order must be maintained in the interest of the oligarchy, that is US style democracy in the third world.

[Turborama]

90. "Obama administration is sending the military there to ensure that it's business as usual" Bullshit!

President Obama is sending the military there because there has been a MASSIVE FUCKING EARTHQUAKE! and there are 3 million people who need food and water. The UN have just approved an increase of 3,500 peacekeepers. Get a grip!

Again, you're just randomly speculating about Obama's motives based on what has happened under previous Presidents and most likely something you've heard Alex Jones say.

[liberati]

125. Are you serious?

Andronex, tell me you're not seriously saying that President Obama is supporting slavery. You need to rethink your theory.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

15. Might not be oil but perhaps cheap labor.

If some big USA business played its hand right and set the playing field up now, it could rebuild Haiti.

Haiti could be the next big cheap labor source.

[SammyWinstonJack]

65. Bet that's been thought about already. Cheap labor/obscene profits.

:puke:

[ronnie624]

6. Interesting.

The French government is saying essentially the same thing Chavez said.

I wonder if there are "froggies" boiling in France too.

[EFerrari]

19. Chavez always says the obvious before it is obvious.

He needs to work on that. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. He also mentioned our super duper secret eartquake

weapon...

Yes I am laughing at that comment, and a few others coming from Caracas. He should like take the lead from Fidel, who is no friend of ours and made a good statement about the need for shit, oh cooperation. Oh wait, the US and Cuba are actually cooperating here... for the sake of other humans.

[No Elephants]

14. Everyone working together for the good of tthe Haitian people. Well, I can dream, can't I?

“People always want it to be their plane that lands,” Kouchner said. “What is important is the fate of the Haitians.”

[Leopolds Ghost]

52. Clinton said the reason everyone is there is to prevent a failed state in the Caribbean.

[alarimer]

67. It already was a failed state, in part due to US policies n/t

[Tx4obama]

20. The U.N. is working with the USA and the U.N. is the one asking now for MORE security n/t

[Tx4obama]

21. I am getting sick of the Obama bashers....

President Obama has done everything in his power to help in this natural catastrophe and is working with the United Nations and for people to bash Obama and the USA is sickening.

The majority of the U.N. officials that were in Haiti are DEAD lying under the collapsed buildings. The majority of the Haitian police force have disappeared and are not providing security. So, you want our American doctors, nurses, and rescue workers to land there in Haiti in the middle of chaos WITHOUT some semblance of security to protect them? I THINK NOT!

Ya'll think that Europe could do a better job? Or Russia? Or China? Then, hey let's bring ALL of our folks home and let the other guys have the mess!

I am really sick and tired of President Obama trying his best to clean up messes that he is not responsible for and then American and PEOPEL HERE ON DU bashing his for his efforts!

[kayla9170]

24. K & R Your Reply.......

This is getting ridiculous!! The US finally gets the aid on the ground and now people are complaining about....the aid on the ground? I am lost here. It must be bash President Obama week again :argh:.

[demoleft]

25. agreed. US is essential for experience and skill. and is doing what everybody expects.

helping haitians.

the rest is just chavezian crap.

[Behind the Aegis]

26. Careful..invoking the "gods"again!

Could get ya in trouble! :)

[demoleft]

28. haha :),well trouble is my second name...

and the OP is almost a quote from chavez statements - there are 2 threads, here and in GD, i'm sure you saw them.

but thanx for the careful warning!
:) ciao.

[Judi Lynn]

40. The US is admired world wide for all the US help given to Haiti during the monster Duvalier's reign,

his kid's, and for getting rid of the democratically elected President Aristide, twice.

[demoleft]

46. you depict USA as osama or iran leaders would. i would worry about myself, if i was you.

i have a global historical vision of countries. i'm not naive but not intolerant.
i remember my grandmother telling me about the nazifascists breaking into her house seeking my grandfather - and then my grandfather telling me stories of italian partizans fighting and later of american soldiers coming to the rescue.

USA is not (only) bush.

USA is also springsteen, easy rider, on the road, jazz, martin luther king jr, and so on and on and on. and obama too.

USA is so much more than you like to portrait. i stick to my dynamic portrait of USA and leave yours to you.

[Caliman73]

87. The US is neither the purely evil empire, nor the spotless champion of the poor.

The United States is a construct of diverse people. The people and the government do help countries with aid, but we have also allowed corporations to exploit countries for maximum profit. Being of one extreme opinion or the other is incomplete. Many of the people of the United States do have good character and do want to help, but we are also self serving and content with our lifestyle. Many corporations exist to make profit and pursue those ends to devastating consequences in our country and especially other countries. Haiti is a prime example of that. The reality is that we are trying to help Haiti, but the same reality is that Haiti is largely the poor country with no infrastructure due to the exploitation allowed by the United State through inaction against the corporations that go their for cheap labor and no environmental regulation. We did depose the democratically elected president of Haiti. To deny that is naive at best and cynical at worst.

We have the capacity to be a good nation, but we have failed often. It is a part of human history. We have to strive to be better and help the people of the world receive true relief and true justice.

[Fla_Democrat]

60. /swish

:smoke:

[Dappleganger]

80. That's because DU for the most part has declared open season on him...

so even when he does a good thing you'd think you'd stepped into Freeperville. Go figure.

:shrug:

[Turborama]

91. Ain't that the truth! n/t

[demoleft]

27. sure. the "empire" hit again, didn't it? UN and US agreed already.

i wonder how unwelcome was this news to poor chavez.
what pearl of dubious political wisdom will he save the world next?

[carla]

32. Wait 6 months

and then we'll see if you come flapping your nationalist pride claptrap again.

[demoleft]

35. i'm italian, not american. and ok, see you in 6 months. ;) n/t

[Tx4obama]

43. da dove sei in Italia?

io ho famiglia in Italia ... est di Napoli a Taurasi e Sant'angelo all'esca
io non parlo molto bene italiano ma un po` ;)

[demoleft]

45. abruzzo, costa adriatica.

la tua famiglia è in campania, provincia di avellino allora.
siamo del sud tutti e due - eheh. bene. mi fa piacere.

il tuo italiano va benissimo ;)

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

48. ciao da una Bolognese che abita in North Carolina

sulla spiaggia :)

But I agree with DemoLeft 100%. I'm not one to shy away from criticizing U.S. policies and interventions but, in the case of Haiti, I have nothing but commendations about the effort the U.S. is providing.

Securing Haiti is the first step in providing aid; if not, people's thirst and hunger will cause them to fight one another for the few available resources. It is just normal human behavior to disregard common courtesies and behavior when faced with one's own survival.

Chavez and whoever in France is criticizing these efforts can go and shove it up their rears.

[demoleft]

56. un ciao dalla mia spiaggia adriatica...

...a te e alla tua. :)
ho visto dal tuo profilo che non vedi l'ora di diventare cittadina americana - eheh. spero che tu ce la faccia presto.

freddo freddo qua, ma oggi c'è il sole. e questa è good news.
ciao!

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

85. Actually, I'm not interested in US citizenship

I think I was referring to "too bad I'm not a US citizen yet" in regards to being able to vote in US elections.

Qua il tempo e` buono, dopo troppi giorni freddissimi!

[Tx4obama]

49. piacere ....

si, la mia famiglia e` in campania ... est di Avellino .. forse un ora di pu1
io studio italiano da 6 anni .. ma quest'anno o due anni io non studiato molto non pui
io amo italia molto especialmente Roma .. Roma e' la bellisima citta` dal mondo!
Anyway, my time in Italia was the BEST nella mia vita. I miei cugini grow vegetables, olive per olio, e vini per vino, etc.
Un giorno nel futuro io spero visitare in Italia un nuovo volto ;)

I hope you can figure out what I tried to say up above :)

[demoleft]

57. piacere mio!

hehe, si ho capito tutto quello che hai scritto.
ho studiato e vissuto a roma per 5 anni, ho amato quella città anch'io.

si, grande olio d'oliva e grande vino, il "fiano" si fa nella zona di avellino. buonissimi!
anche in abruzzo grande olio e vino montepulciano, great red one ;)

ti aspettiamo in italia allora.
:)

[Renew Deal]

70. Doesn't anyone speak american around here???

:evilgrin:

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. sure thing cowboy

sees here that we speak English only...

Damn I cannot do descent MOran's English.

[Judi Lynn]

38. Oddly, the article heading this thread does NOT mention Chavez.

Maybe you should just use that Chavez spew on threads about him, just to sound less obsessed.

[demoleft]

44. obsessed? i'm the most relaxed man in the world, judy linn. :)

you know exactly what my reference there points at.
ciao :)

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JTFrog]

36. .

:wtf:

The only racist shit in this thread is what you're posting.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JTFrog]

42. Damnit, now I want a do nut.

*sigh*

[malaise]

47. Caribbean people are very upset

Haiti is a full member of CARICOM and our aircraft have been turned back as well.
How ironic that the CARICOM civil aviation committee was meeting in Haiti at the time of the earthquake. Everyone of them is missing in the rubble over at the Hotel Montana.

[Leopolds Ghost]

54. Malaise, you have been very supportive of the effort and knowledgable. If you have concerns

People should listen.

I know plenty of people have military, humanitarian, relief experience, but we don't know for sure what the problems are in Haiti until we read about it.

[malaise]

61. The truth is that Haiti needs everyone who

is offering help - what she does not need is arrogance from any of them or baseless squabbling from others. I'm just glad Obama won the election because I can tell you that the complaints and anger would have been ten times worse and there would have been no change or explanations.

From day one I stated that there is always ambivalence re American help because, with good reason, people fear American intentions.

I had a wonderful conversation with a close friend in Trinidad last night and we discussed all the good that America has done and continues to do for Caribbean people. We also discussed how this good at the individual/family level - the wonderful opportunities possible for our people in the US and rarely anywhere else - often clouds people's judgement on America's imperial presence and ambition. That topic deserves a separate thread at another time.

[dgibby]

63. Did you see Rachel last night?

Evidently, the IMF has already offered to "loan" Haiti money. Looks like disaster capitalism is alive and well.

[Odin2005]

59. Ugh, we try to help and then people use it as an opurtunity to US-bash. Pathetic.

We are trying to save lives, you dimwit.

[jakefrep]

83. Or worse, ascribe some nefarious ulterior motive to our disaster aid.

[WolverineDG]

64. you know, one of these days, I hope the US just says "Fuck it"

when a disaster comes along. It seems that no matter what we do, no matter how hard our folks are working, no matter how long they are working, no matter how dire the conditions, it is never fucking enough for some people, most of whom have no fucking clue how to handle a disaster of any magnitude, much less an earthquake the poorest country in the hemisphere.

dg

[ronnie624]

73. It isn't folks who are being criticized.

What is being criticized, is 200+ years of political and economic exploitation by the U.S. government, that extends right up to this very minute. People who are familiar with the truthful version U.S. history have every right to question the motives of the Empire, especially those who have been victimized by it. Such questions are not a slight to those individuals who are working hard to help the Haitian people. The U.S. political power establishment has wronged Haiti horribly, and it must be monitored closely, if for no other reason than to understand what is happening.

[TxRider]

75. Yup, uncle sam (fedseral government) should just say screw it, we're out..

Then nobody has to question motives.

And the French and Hugo can obviously handle this disaster faster and better with much more men and equipment.

[ronnie624]

79. In the long term, Haiti would be better off if the U.S. said "screw it, were out".

But we all know that isn't going to happen.

[PacerLJ35]

88. Ok, fine...we'll pull out all our guys that make up well over half the rescue effort

[ronnie624]

92. No we won't. n/t

[EFerrari]

110. No, we won't because that would give someone else control.

[Pavulon]

89. Would you give that order as CIC? Stop all military operations?

that would mean the deaths of tens of thousands of people if the US stopped all military operations to provide care and supplies. Would you give that order knowing the consequences of your actions?

Think on that, one answer advocates mass murder the other means you have some common sense.

[ronnie624]

93. In the make believe world where I am CIC,

things would be very different for Haiti. It isn't aid that I object to, it's the ulterior motives. I'm sure you've already read the post up-thread in which I stated that we must help Haiti, and that it "must necessarily include security".

[Pavulon]

122. Cool, that "no" makes you a sane person operating in the current plane of reality..

there is no other organization that has the logistics to handle this event. Airlift and logistics are military specialties.

[WolverineDG]

86. Yes, they are a slight to those on the ground

NONE of the whiners & moaners has said so much as a "thank you" to the people on the ground doing work they (the moaners & whiners) refuse to do, even though you insist you know so much more about disaster relief. Instead, you sit there & piss & moan about the US & torture logic to support your tinfoil hat views.


dg

[ronnie624]

96. Which views, specifically, are you referring to? n/t

[WolverineDG]

105. All the ones bitching about how the US is getting the job done nt

[Confusious]

123. You know I wouldn't disagree with you

If it was any other country. But france made haiti pay for not being slaves from 1825 to 1925. They are the cause of most of this disaster.

They should shut the fuck up.

[Cha]

98. They're trying to help and

sure enough..along come the jealous assholes with the big ass mouths accusing them of taking over.

I've been in a disaster when the American military came to help and we were never so glad to see anyone in our lives at that point.

[Nye Bevan]

68. I would be *praying* to be "taken over" by Uncle Sam if I was a Haitian

at least until the rescue and recovery aid has been completed.

[Renew Deal]

69. Let the French send their people in to take over an airport in 2 days

and lets see how they do.

[ronnie624]

78. "Take over" an airport?

A bit of unintentional irony, perhaps?

[Renew Deal]

84. Not at all

The control tower was destroyed and the runway was damaged. The US military was able to get it all working in almost no time due to Air Force expertise.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

74. Good.

According to a Master Sargent interviewed on NPR yesterday, the airport went from being non-functioning on the first day the U.S. arrived, to having a delay time of 2-4 hrs the second day, to 1-2 hrs the third day, to less than the usual pre-earthquake delay time the fourth day.

[Fleshdancer]

82. Is this the same France that demanded Haiti pay for not being slaves?

I'll be the first to stand up and admit that my country isn't perfect, but it's bullshit to say that the US isn't helping Haiti just because French officials don't agree with the logistics. As for that plane that was turned back, well it arrived the next day. The entire world is landing in Haiti right now and, as annoying as it is, the flights have to be organized.

[ShortnFiery]

94. Yes, every country we occupy is due to God's Will - American Crusade 2001+

Disaster Capitalism? Yipee! :crazy:

[steelmania75]

95. Haiti basically has no government, and it was corrupt in the first place

Also, it's the US's job as a superpower to provide aid when disasters like this happen.

[EFerrari]

108. Haiti has no government because the US won't allow one to stand

that we can't control. And the dictators we propped up were corrupted by, um, US.

[ronnie624]

121. We have a moral obligation to provide aid to Haiti,

but I don't think I would call it our "job". Such a characterization implies that our government has been granted authority from providence to do as it pleases, with no regard to the sovereignty of other nations. The U.S. should work in cooperation with other countries. The indications are that the U.S. government's primary goal is to maintain unilateral political control over Haiti. To me, our government's behavior brings to mind a snarling, snapping dog over a food bowl. The actual distribution of food and water seems to be a secondary concern, based on the news.

The entire country should have been saturated with food and water from the very beginning. Plenty of food and water would eliminate the potential for a black market and reduce the potential for violence, thus helping to provide security. People with full bellies under these circumstances, are far less likely to engage in violent activity. The Venezuelan government had the right idea when it immediately dispatched water purification systems and 6000 tons of food aid, far more than anyone else. I wonder what became of it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. Please do suggest another miliary with the LOGISTICAL

capabilities we have.

For the record, the rest of the world is putting in half of what we are. Don't get me wrong, in proportion to the GNP, size of population and Military Budget the United States of Mexico are putting in about the same we are... just that this means three naval ships, and a small fleet of planes from the Air Force and the Navy...

As well as Marines (I know the howling will be coming) and civil defense and Red Cross Personnel.

Now here is more... the US is in charge of Logistics. This is like shit we do, and Humanitarian aide is in charge of the UN... and here is more... they are all working under the HOST government.

The writer of this piece of shit needs to do a little research.

And yes, I AM FULLY AWARE of the damn history between the US and Haiti...

By the way, once you find that force, SegGen Ban Ki Mun would like you to send that to him.

[Prometheus Bound]

114. Send in the Israelis.

The US military has failed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

120. You are jocking right?

The IDF has 1 ten of one percent of the logistical capacity of the US.

Why it is sending what IT CAN.

[beat_the_republicans]

115. Americans are forever deemed "Aggressors"

There is nothing that can change the view of Americans abroad after Bush's reign of terror. No matter what Americans do from Obama on down, will be construed any differently until we build rapprochement back into our actions here in the U.S. and abroad.

I was in the 6.8 Northridge earthquake in Los Angeles and was around for the riots as well. The National Guard had to be called in to help. I'm sure that some of the military presence there to keep order among chaos.

France has the largest population of Muslims in Europe. Are the Americans Al-Qaeda paranoid enough to take it out on the Haitian people who desperately need help? Possibly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. Well to be honest there is a history in Latin America

that said in this case... this is not aggression but relief.

But specifically to Haiti there is quite a history. I am sure the young Paratroopers at the palace that heard a local scream at them... hey we do not mind if you stay longer than 1915 missed the reference though.

We did come in like with Marines to take over the place in 1915 and yes did take over.

So this is where some of this comes in.

Another country, with a similar history, that might give you a taste of this is Mexico. Read Distant Neighbors. Yes Mexico, but the feelings are similar all across Latin America...

Americans are pretty damn ignorant of the history... I recommend you familiarize yourself with it. In fact, this operation may just change some feelings vis a vis uncle sam in Latin America.