Food And Water Air-Dropped Into Haiti

[lame54]

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latest-news/us-air-force-drops-55000-pounds-food-water-haiti

January 19th, 2010 3:17 AM
U.S. Air Force drops 55,000 pounds of food, water into Haiti
By Larry Shaughnessy / CNN
ONBOARD AN AIR FORCE C-17 OVER HAITI -- Bypassing the gridlock of Haiti's main airport and congestion of roadways in the earthquake-ravaged country, the U.S. military delivered badly needed food and water on Monday by parachute.
A C-17 cargo plane left Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina shortly after noon, and three hours later dropped 40 pallets -- or "bundles" as the Air Force refers to them as -- holding bottled water and Meals, Ready-to-Eat, or MREs, on a field just north of the Port-au-Prince airport in Haiti.
It was the first airdrop of humanitarian supplies by the U.S. military into Haiti since the deadly earthquake there nearly a week ago.
"There are so many relief agencies funneling through the airport that it has kind of created a bottleneck," U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Leon Strickland told CNN en route to the drop point. "We're going to put things directly out of the air onto the ground and open up another distribution point north of the airfield."...

[Leopolds Ghost]

1. Nonsense. It's just not possible to air-drop stuff like that.

Has this guy ever run a relief operation? If he had, he'd know that this sort of thing is not SOP.

On Edit: :sarcasm:

[Leopolds Ghost]

2. But it's nice to see them doing it. See what it's like when an institution is self-critical

evaluates the existence of setbacks and does not merely assume it's coming along the best it possibly can...

WE can assume that, not being there...

Or we can assume it's not going along the best it possibly can, not being there...

Which is more likely to be true / more constructive?

(Keeping in mind that this is an ideal forum for discussing problems since most people are already willing to give $$)

[Captain Hilts]

3. Yes, it IS possible to air drop these items. nt

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

4. Why not? They airdrop tanks and bradley fighting vehicles...

I don't see the issue with a handful of pallets with parachutes.

Although dropping food randomly could create conflict on the ground because you are relying on unstable people to act rationally and administer it to themselves. My guess is thugs take all of it and either hoarde it or exploit others who want it. However if the bottleneck is preventing any more traffic from passing, then it probably is best to throw all the food/water out there that they can and let people (who would otherwise starve) have some access to supplies.

But going back to the main point... sure it possible to drop supplies.

[Leopolds Ghost]

5. I was being facetious.

The most "rabid" skeptics were told to stop foolishly suggesting such a thing.

Not by military leaders but by DUers who said that us armchair critics (admittedly myself included) didn't know enough about the scope of the disaster or how these operations work.

to understand why they didn't just drop things from the sky.

To be fair, I never thought dropping stuff out of C-130s was a good idea.

So if they're doing it, maybe it's a plan B stop-gap measure. maybe there was something to our (admittedly poorly informed) worries about the pace of the operation not being satisfactory enough for the relief workers themselves.

Sandnsea gave us an excellent breakdown of the US relief capacity, its strong points and weak points.

It could well be that the planes are backing up too much because we've basically turned it into a US airbase
(we don't have permission to land troops or military supplies in the DR, I don't think, which might explain why non-US planes keep getting shunted there) and don't even have room for the military logistics guys.

Only 6 rescue teams isn't that many, although the average size is 70 people per team, so they're large teams.

But only 30 people have been rescued by US forces... seems like there are no survivors left and we're into recovery now.

[Progressive_In_NC]

6. They found an open field, they're not dropping them over the Haitian people

two completely different things I might add. The govt is still in control of the operation and the planes don't have to land.

[SidDithers]

11. +1...

They're dropping supplies to their own logistics personnel, for further distribution.

And the armchair disaster experts downthread are going on as if this is what they were talking about all this time.

Sid

Edit: fixed wording

[Waiting For Everyman]

42. It IS what we were talking about.

You don't bother to notice. You just flame blindly.

We were (trying to, above the din) discuss air drops of ALL kinds. Nothing but what was currently being done was acceptable to you loud mouths.

Nothing more was possible, remember that meme? (How quickly they forget - when it's convenient).

[SidDithers]

47. I'll type slowly, since you seem to be having a hard time understanding...

What's possible today might not have been possible 4 days ago. As more manpower and cargo handling equipment are offloaded, personnel are able to do more. The situation on the ground in Haiti has improved since Saturday night, when you posted your bumbling "Katrina clusterfuck" thread.

And you were most definately not talking about this type of air drop. This air drop is being made to a secure landing zone, where logistics workers will break down the load and deliver it to forward distribution points.

You and your cohorts were suggesting dropping materiel directly to the Haitian citizens.


Sid

[Waiting For Everyman]

49. Nice try at more hair-splitting.

I notice that the smarter of the faux experts at least had the good sense not to post in this thread. I give them credit for that.

[SidDithers]

51. What you call hair-splitting, I call accuracy...

guess that's the difference between you and I.

Sid

[Waiting For Everyman]

54. Yeah, right. The solution today was impossible last week. Got it.

The hits just keep on coming today. Please, do tell, enlighten us some more!

Your "accuracy" is astonishing. Nevermind that your entire point was bullshit... first try being accurate about that part.

[eqfan592]

85. WTF?

This isn't a difficult concept to understand. The necessary personnel were not likely in place to establish air drop supply stations such as these several days ago. Such an operation is not something you can just toss together with the snap of your fingers.

And ultimately, given the sort of humanitarian disaster we're talking about, the highest priority has GOT to be getting the docks up and running again. It's just not feasible to try and airlift in enough supplies to deal with literally millions of people.

[happy_liberal]

52. "But only 30 people have been rescued by US forces... seems like there are no survivors left"

I wonder how many more could have been saved if they started air dropping supplies(and rescue teams) earlier?

[SidDithers]

56. Remember Baby Jessica?...

Jessica McClure was 18 months old when she fell down a well in Midland, Texas back in 1987.

It took dozens of rescue workers, using heavy machinery, 58 hours to rescue one little girl.

Now, consider the scale of the disaster that is the earthquake in Haiti.

Sid

[Waiting For Everyman]

62. Well gee SD, at that rate then maybe we can justify this taking a 100 years

to get relief to these people? Good point there!

[SidDithers]

66. You should sprinkle your magic pixie dust...

and immediately make everything better.

'Cause, according to you, it's possible to do everything right away, in a country that had virtually no infrastructure before a massive earthquake.

Sid

[Waiting For Everyman]

70. Seems as if our military sees it my way. Maybe they're pixies too.

Better not tell THEM that. At least, not to their face.

On second thought, you go right ahead and DO THAT. :popcorn:

[Waiting For Everyman]

7. Lol, the military must be REALLY CLUELESS!!!

:rofl:

Seriously though, I'm glad they did it.

[BeFree]

8. They are idiots and ignorant twits

Well, that is what some DUers called me when I made the suggestion Saturday night. Of course, I don't agree.

I'm glad to see they are doing everything they can.

[Waiting For Everyman]

9. Yes, "crickets" from our contingent of DU experts.

Where are they now, I wonder? Cat-got-their-tongue? Maybe they're busy conferring with their insider-sources?

Wish I had a dollar for every time they told us this was impossible during the last week.

[BeFree]

10. Two links

How embarrassing. Made me sick looking at these two links. And its just a small sample of the crap that was flung. Note to newbies: we have archives.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7469383 Air drops

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7477356&mesg_id=7477356
Getting Aid to the people

Thanks, Waiting For Everyman.

[Waiting For Everyman]

22. And those links were from last Thursday and Friday.

If non-pros like us here could suggest this kind of solution last week, I gotta believe the top military knew it should've been done too.

I'll bet those military brass must've been chewing nails and biting their tongues this week. It must've been hard for them to see this inadequate response, and not being allowed to voice opinions.

I'm glad there a breathrough, finally, in getting more done. Pres. Obama DID SAY that he wouldn't tolerate any excuses, and evidently he pinned down where the problem was... I'll still bet on it being at the top of USAID, but we'll find out later presumably.

[BeFree]

27. I'd bet

Obama is pissed. But what can he say in public? Nada

Like you, I am just glad it's being done.

Y'know, methinks some of the most vile attackers were people who think we were attacking Obama, personally, for the failure of the brass. The rest were just mean, eh?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

41. It had been discussed early, but there are serious concerns over safety

While it is easy in hindsight to say they should have started the fixed wing earlier, The caution it was approached with is understandable. History tells us that people on the ground will be killed by the drops, hopefully only a few. I read elsewhere that they may lead the drop with an security team in helos. That should help

Per comments in the M$M, some small drops had been done out of helos earlier.

[here_is_to_hope]

31. From that first link...

"I did training and it was exactly that, wiht choppers. The Mexican AF decided to teach us why you do not dick with this. They dropped a training pallet with water and rice on it. We were 600 yards from it, and we were soaked. Most of the bottles burst on impact."

So a pallet dropped from 20 feet will spray water and rice 1800 feet away?

Right.

[BeFree]

33. There seems....

.... to be a clique here that works to protect the elites at all costs.

And it cost a lot.

[happy_liberal]

74. "And it cost a lot".....just their soul

I wonder how much they get paid from tax dollars filtered through homeland security?

[TexasObserver]

82. Consider the source.

Always consider the source of information. If the source is notoriously unreliable, it's a bad idea to put any belief in it.

As you point out, the story told can't possibly be true. If water from a dropped pallet burst upon impact, it certainly wouldn't fly out 600 yards (a third of a mile) in every direction, soaking everything in a circle extending 600 yards in each direction. The story was preposterous on its face, and should not be believed.

I wouldn't place any confidence in that source, which appears to be yet another made up story to bolster some absurd statement. Experts can spell. They can write in complete sentences, too. The claim that the source of that tall tale is an expert is laughable.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. In one of those threads, credential came up...still waiting for yours outside of keyboard

While I have participated in this kind of thing in the distant past, nadinbrzezinski is a pro in this area whose comment are based on real world experience. Yours seem mostly out of ignorance.

[BeFree]

45. Heh

Read the book "Longest Day".
In WW2 the paratroopers landed at night along with crates of supplies.

That was 1944.

I don't know what your problem is. All any of us ever wanted was for supplies to reach the Haitian people as soon as possible.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. People pushing simplistic solutions for complex problems are always a problem

Obama deals with that daily...

[BeFree]

48. I see

Next time we'll all just wait for the experts to tell us what's what, before we go thinking for ourselves.

That's why Gawd made professors, eh?

I bow to you and yours.

And full moon ya!!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. As you wish, but your lack of knowledge about how things actually work is appalling

Being a prof is my retirement job...at one point in my life I was in the helos. Enjoy wallowing in your ignorance

[Waiting For Everyman]

53. Yes, we're "CLUELESS", we know. So is our military evidently.

You're like a dog with a bone, aren't you? Just can't give it up.

:rofl:

Wow, I've gotten more laughs out of DU today than ever before.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

58. I am glad you recognize your state of ignorance. Have you considered doing something about it?

[Waiting For Everyman]

64. Yes, I've considered ignoring comments from faux experts like you.

In case you hadn't noticed yet, resumes don't do much in a crisis.

[TexasObserver]

12. From DU's contingent of faux experts?!

One would have thought the whole search and rescue operation was being run from a living room full of parrots and empty fast food containers.

[Statistical]

13. They are Air dropping supplies to forward base.

That is a far different cry from just dumping crap over heavily populated areas and hoping for the best.

The logistical center to the north will then distribute the food, water, medicine, supplies in an orderly, secure, and safe manner.

The distribution is still being done by the same people however it bypasses the over capacity airport and the roads.
It also bypasses large mobs of people who may attack or block convoy moving from airport.

However it still is not a good idea to just dump lots of "goodies" into urban centers with high population density, large amounts of gangs/crime/weapons and no police/military/govt structure.

This bypass of the airport doesn't change that.

[SidDithers]

17. Maybe what was impossible 4 days ago...

when you posted your idiotic "Katrina clusterfuck" thread, is possible now.

Or do you think nothing has been accomplished in 4 days?

Sid

[Waiting For Everyman]

30. Now I get it,

you specialize in doublethink, don't you?

Yes, my OP was soooooo idiotic - I'm sure it was IMPOSSIBLE to run these supplies from North Carolina LAST WEEK, instead of NOW. It was unreported, but the DU experts KNOW from their elite sources that a brand new base was just built for this in North Carolina THIS WEEK. :sarcasm:

:crazy:

Yeah, I'm the idiotic one, alright. But you're sooooo smart. I bow to your greatness, oh enlightened one.

(I'm glad to see the faux experts are CLUELESS enough to show up and re-demonstrate their arrogant nonsense for us.)


(spell edit)

[SidDithers]

37. I don't think the North Carolina end of the trip was the problem....nt

Sid

[Waiting For Everyman]

40. ...

:rofl:

[WolverineDG]

18. No, you wanted them to drop food & water onto crowds

where it would be every man for himself.

:eyes:


dg

[BeFree]

20. Yeah

And the next day, that's exactly what they did. And some people got water.

Wolverine, thanks for showing up. I had forgotten what a biter you are.

[WolverineDG]

23. No, they dropped it at a country club

where not too many people were & they had some crowd control in place. You, OTOH, want the airport to allow everything to land, drop food & water willy-nilly, regardless of the logistics...you think it's fucked up now? Imagine how fucked up it would be if those on the ground had taken your advice?

dg

[BeFree]

24. Got a link?

Quit making shit up. Provide a damned link.

[WolverineDG]

32. Might want to use DU Search before you accuse someone of making shit up

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7483465

Thanks for proving that you are an idiot AND a twit.

dg

[BeFree]

34. heh...here's my post in that thread

11. Those poor folks

They are in the hills because they are afraid of the houses falling on them.
I am so glad to see that they are getting water at least. Our troops there
must seem like Angels from heaven.

[WolverineDG]

35. Care to apologize for saying I was making shit up

seeing as how you already knew I wasn't?

dg

[BeFree]

38. Go away. Bad badger, Bad, bad, bad

[WolverineDG]

60. Too immature to see that you got your ass served to you, I see

Figures. :eyes:

dg

[BeFree]

65. Rabies?

Stand back!!

[Statistical]

19. You made the suggestion to create a logistical base on north side of city ...

at a good location that is defensible, properly staff it, then ensure there is sufficient security?
Only after doing that airdrop supplies directly to relief workers thus bypassing the congested airport and dangerous roads?

You suggested all that? Or maybe did you suggest dropping supplies randomly over highly populated urban center which likely would cause a riot and/or result in gangs/criminals taking the lionshare of any supplies dropped.

[KittyWampus]

25. the twits are those who think airdrops just happen magically overnight.

[LynneSin]

55. At this point is there any other choice?

Yes there is the risk of rioting with the food drops but Haiti's infrastructure is in such short supply that there might not be any other choice.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

14. Survival of the fittest.......

:shrug:

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

15. WKRP: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FXSnoy71Q4

I hope the Air Force is having better luck ...

:hi:

[lame54]

88. Dead turkeys would be better food than what they have now...

but thanks for the clip - classic episode

[malaise]

16. They dropped it at the Presidential Palace

where they are now taking up residence. This is very bad PR

[WolverineDG]

21. And the "Find a way to Bash the US no matter what they do" contingent has been heard from

:eyes:

How's about it makes a good base of operations for distributing food & water?

dg

[malaise]

26. If the plan is to set up base there to help the people fine -

if as I heard it is to provide security for the state, very bad PR and any Haitian people don''t like what it symbolizes and Haiti is still their country.

Imagine Yellowstone erupts and the Chinese occupy the damaged WH.

[WolverineDG]

29. Of course you would find a way to make any US action a bad one

no matter how much you have to torture the logic to get there. :eyes:

(btw, Yellowstone is on the other side of the country from the WH)

dg

[here_is_to_hope]

36. If Yellowstone does blow

like the geologists have proposed, it will affect the WH.
But I get your point.

[Waiting For Everyman]

28. On the contrary, it's a no-brainer.

They're setting up where the people are congregated - in the large open spaces.

Or maybe you'd suggest them setting up where the people ARE NOT, and then bitching about transporting supplies back to them over the roads?

[JVS]

39. "Thousands crushed by falling provisions"

[ProgressiveProfessor]

44. Experience has shown some will die from the airdrop

[hileeopnyn8d]

57. I keep clicking on

Haiti threads to find one where DUers aren't being assholes to each other, I haven't found one yet. Good job.

[Waiting For Everyman]

67. You missed all the fun the last few days.

Some links are near the top, and they lead to others. I'd post some for you, but when I did that last week I was torn to shreds for "repeating myself" (my term for it) - by linking an LBN thread to a GD one. As you can imagine, the phrasing was not quite that polite.

[Waiting For Everyman]

73. (lol, my bad)

My vision missed the "n/t", mistook "aren't" in your subject line for "are".

[hileeopnyn8d]

86. I wondered why you

thought I would need assistance finding those types of threads. :)

Thanks anyway though.

[BeFree]

81. I found one

Edit: no, I was wrong. Sorry bout that.

[piedmont]

59. Security on the ground was finally in place for this to happen.

"We are obviously concerned about the welfare of the people on the ground," he said, adding, "I'm confident that our members on the ground have created a secure environment for us to conduct airdrop operations."

snip

"Maj. Jeff "Ratdog" Daniels, the pilot of the C-17, said the U.S. military teams waiting for the airdrop on the ground reported all 40 parachutes opened properly and all the bundles landed on target in the planned drop zone."

[SidDithers]

61. +1...nt

Sid

[tammywammy]

63. +1 n/t

[Waiting For Everyman]

68. And that was IMPOSSIBLE last week, hmmmmm????

Right-e-o.

[TxRider]

69. Safely, yes

[Waiting For Everyman]

71. Wow, a DoD spokesman on DU! Cool.

So DoD told you personally that it couldn't be done just the same last week?

Good to know.

[TxRider]

83. No on NPR

And on the DOD web sites.

[piedmont]

72. Yeah, probably. The troop levels increased greatly on Monday once their ships arrived.

Until that time, what was there was being used in higher priority jobs.

[Waiting For Everyman]

75. More likely, it was because of this Pres. Obama statement:

I agree with him and commend him for it, and I'm sure he MEANS it:


"... my national security team understands that I will not put up with any excuses for us not doing the very best in this time of tragedy."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/01/14/haiti.us.aid/index.html

[piedmont]

76. The statement was from 1-14. The airdrop happened 1-18. If they could have done it 1-14...

they would have.

[Waiting For Everyman]

78. Ok, I'm done responding to dense comments now.

If the statement was on 1/18 and the airdrop was on 1/14, it might be unrelated. Clearly, something out of the ordinary was done today, probably in reaction to dissatisfaction since 1/14 with how it was going previously up to then - just as some of us on here were expressing btw.

If you choose to think that this drop today was according to the original plan all along, go ahead. I highly doubt that.

[piedmont]

80. Then stop making them.

"If you choose to think that this drop today was according to the original plan all along, go ahead. I highly doubt that."

What original plan? The earthquake happened 1-11-09. Every logistical problem created by the event has had to be figured out and solved since that time.

And here's a little experiment in causality-- I will not tolerate any excuses for "Waiting For Everyman" not taking his/her next breath.

[postulater]

77. There was a general on the radio this AM

suggesting building an additional runway for C-130 transports.

He says it could be done in about three days.

[SidDithers]

79. That will help...

but the biggest improvement will be seen when the port is once again functional, and ships can begin to deliver equipment and supplies.

Sid

[TxRider]

84. And the Navy

Has their salvage teams in place working on doing just that already.

[lame54]

87. .