My 72 virgins nightmare

[Cyrano]

There’s no intention here to insult anyone else’s beliefs. (Okay, maybe there is.) But if I had to blow myself up, and then be put in the position of having to satisfy 72 virgins, I’d kill myself if I wasn’t already dead.

Many of you will disagree. But the idea of screwing (no, I wont even use the term, “making love”) with a virgin, not to mention 72, is … umm. Well, I guess it’s just not my fantasy. I’d really rather make love with just one experienced, incredibly sensual, woman who loves to make love.

This thread may just kick off a Jihad against me, but hey, life is dangerous to your health.

But let me get to my real point here which is religious fanaticism. Blow yourself up, kill as many as possible, and bingo, you’ve hit the “72 virgin jackpot.” (What a miserable, sexist, “dream.” Paradise” for men and misery for the virgins. The old men who induce young men to blow themselves up for this “dream” should rot forever in whatever pit of napalm may exist. This is exploitation at its most despicable.

Then again, is it any different from hate-filled “Christian preachers” who imply that the world would be a better place if doctors who perform abortions didn’t exist? Yeah, I know. They’re not specifically telling others to “commit murder.” Nonetheless …

Every time you think this world can’t get any more insane, along comes another virus to infect human beings with a “new and improved” form of lunacy.

[no limit]

1. I think you spent a little too much time over thinking this.

[Cyrano]

2. Ummm, not really.

[Oregone]

3. So you believe people blow themselves up primarily to have sex with 72 virgins?

What a bunch of irrational, sex-driven, primitive Neanderthals we fight against

[Recursion]

10. Especially since you don't have sex with them in paradise

Yet another way the west has completely misunderstood Islam.

[Rebubula]

4. OK....

....PUT....DOWN....THE ....JOINT.....

[Happyhippychick]

5. If a virgin blows somebody up, does he get 72 hookers?

Just wondering.

[undeterred]

7. 72 horny young guys with no sexual experience

[Recursion]

11. No, she becomes one of the "virgins"

"Virgin" is a weird translation of it and one day I want to find out why that was settled on.

[rrneck]

17. There goes another keyboard. And worth it. nt

[Cassandra]

6. I think the desire by some men for virgins...

is indicative of their desire for sex with someone who can't tell them how bad they are in bed.

[Cyrano]

9. Sometimes, wisdom is difficult to recognize. But I think you've nailed it.

[Happyhippychick]

25. You rock. That's all.

[Cassandra]

34. Thank you.

That is all. ;-)

[Recursion]

8. Incidentally, I think you're misunderstanding the houriyah

The houriyah are not objects of the shahid's sexual gratification; the point is that the shahid lives free of lustful thoughts. Muslim women themselves have expressed a desire to be a houri after their martyrdom; even ones who are not physically virgins. It's part of a larger description of paradise as a complete and joyful constant consciousness of God.

Now, that sounds like a drag to me, but it's easy to sensationalize and misinterpret that part of Islam.

[Cyrano]

12. Yes, it is easy to misinterpret.

And regarding the 72 virgin concept, I believe that far more explanation is required to make this form of barbarity palatable.

We haven't heard from many women on this thread yet, but I'd sure like to hear some female opinions on this topic.

[Recursion]

15. Just a quick thing, both "72" and "virgin" are questionable

1. The number 72 comes from one particular hadith that nowhere near all Muslims agree on (even among those some say it's just a poetic way of saying "many").

2. "Virgin" is a very questionable translation for "houri". The literal rendering is something like "clear-eyed ones". Their chastity (male and female) is implied in later descriptions of paradise, but there's nothing particularly virginal about the word itself.

And finally, people do not have sex in paradise, so these are not martyrs repeatedly deflowering virgins. I'm just saying it's a lot less barbaric than the sensationalist anti-Islamic press wants to make it.

[JDPriestly]

26. But God put us on this earth for some reason.

The translator probably chose "virgin" because "houri" sounds to much like an English word that has a very different meaning. Would saint or sister (in the sense of nuns) come closer?

Joking aside, from what I know about Islam, the teaching is that believers should trust and follow the will of God. As I understand it, it's up to God to decide when we are to leave this world. What if these young men die and discover that having killed themselves wasn't at all God's will for them?

I think living a full life and experiencing human loves (of various types including spiritual love for fellow men and women), disappointments and the life beyond oneself in this life is what all true religion is about. Regardless of the religious guide or theology it is coming from, I am very suspicious of easy prescriptions for achieving consciousness of God.

We can be receptive to the experience of the consciousness of God, but the excited state in which someone who is about to pull the trigger on an explosive must be in has nothing to do with even that tiny fleeting moment of consciousness of God that we are sometimes permitted to experience as mortals on this earth.

I base this on my own life and experiences. I just think that people who encourage young people to kill themselves and others for whatever purpose are charlatans. I think that those people who really believe that God wants \ young people to kill themselves and others for some cause should set an example and kill themselves first.

Besides, the 72 houris (saintly women) makes utterly no sense. Why would any healthy young man want to be surrounded by 72 women of any kind. Let them marry first. They will find that the three women that the Koran allegedly permits is more than enough. Once they have 72 women around them there will be no soccer, no football, no basketball. Most women are not quite the fans of those sports that guys tend to be. (There are exceptions -- but 72 of them in one place.?) It would be like moving into a world with 72 older sisters and mothers to nag you.

I don't care whether it is Hitler or Constantine or Bin Laden, or George W. Bush, it's always easy to talk young, idealistic souls into choosing death over life by promising bliss. But I will never be convinced that the God who created humans with the love of life and the drive to survive and procreate and experience the joys and sorrows of being parents intended good young people to sacrifice their lives for the sake of the promises of someone who obviously chose life himself. That just makes no sense to me at all.

It is not a matter of offending Islam. There are also Christians who teach this kind of stuff to the young. They are mostly old folks and very much alive.

[Fumesucker]

13. Sounds a lot better to me than the Christian idea of "heaven"..

Sexless, floating around playing a damn harp for eternity.. :evilgrin:

And who said anything about satisfying the virgins?

I think it was Mark Twain that said to choose heaven for the climate and hell for the company..

[Cyrano]

14. "And who said anything about satisfying the virgins?"

I await the DU females to bury you for this classic bit of insensitivity.

[treestar]

28. From the patriarchal POV it doesn't matter

the OP may have just been pointing that out.

[Recursion]

35. Gah you guys are driving me insane

The houriyah are not sexual partners. They are chaste companions. "72 virgins" is an inexcusable translation.

[foxfeet]

16. OK. You can have one 72 year-old virgin instead.

Happy? :P

[FSogol]

18. A 72 year old virgin whose husband only slept with her on Sundays

Catch 22 ;-)

[Cyrano]

19. I have only one question? Why in the world did I start this thread?

Happy hour hasn't begun yet, I haven't had a joint, but it's definitely time for one or the other.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bamacrat]

21. I guess this appeals more to guys who don't know how to please a woman.

If she is a virgin how does she know your dick is small and you don't know how to use it. Virgins may been new and untouched and that has a limited appeal but they would then have 72 stage 5 clingers.

Also I think it is a little creepy because in my mind virgin girls are young and underage. I mean by the time I was 17 I only knew two or three virgins.

[Blasphemer]

22. We were all virgins at some point... somebody had to be willing to change that fact.. nt

[JDPriestly]

23. OK so I'm the only one recommending this and I'm an older woman.

I've been wondering about the fate of this pitiful young man who was carrying explosives in his underpants. If he actually burned or blew up some of his vital parts, he may have condemned himself to a life without much ability to satisfy anyone in any kind of relationship.

How easily young people buy into simplistic answers and empty promises. (Sorry to be so condescending and I recognize that most young people don't, but I look back on life and think about young people I know and feel I should warn based on my experience.)

According to Ayn Rand's dream of invincible individualism conquering all, extreme Christianity's promise that the way to eternal bliss is one charismatic experience followed by unquestioning belief in a lot of words that don't really make sense or Islam's promise of 72 virgins, it's all made to sound so easy.

The truth: It takes time, a love (or loves), kids or work that provides rewards beyond money and things to teach us that life is more complicated than the preachers and Imams and political theorists want us to think.

My advice to the young, the enthusiastic, the dedicated: Do your thing but remember that life is never as simple as the prophets and philosophers promise. You have to question and work and then question and work some more.

As for the 72 virgins, Warren Beatty claims to have done better than that in one real life here on earth. So, my thought for budding terrorists is that there may be better ways to earn the love of 72 women than blowing yourself up.

Instead of following the teachings of Bin Laden, maybe you should read Warren Beatty's autobiography

[mainer]

24. Do the hymens keep regenerating? I always wondered that.

Because after you've run through your 72 virgins, you're plum out of stock.

[treestar]

27. Like you can't get a job without experience but can't get experience without the job

What's a poor virgin to do? :rofl:

How can she get enough experience if no one wants a virgin? :rofl:

Is it really that complicated? How many hours are required before you "know how?" :rofl: :rofl: Does it take longer than getting a pilot's license? A B.A. degree? I feel bad for virgins everywhere - this meme could just intimidate shy people even more.

This is part of the old fashioned patriarchy that Islam is still steeped in. A woman is property. And that is not to let Christianity off the hook either. So it's like having a new car rather than an old one. They aren't thinking of the quality of the drive.

[proteus_lives]

29. Never been with a virgin. What's so special about breaking someone in?

Christianin, is it any different from hate-filled “Christian preachers” who imply that the world would be a better place if doctors who perform abortions didn’t exist? Yeah, I know. They’re not specifically telling others to “commit murder.” Nonetheless … "

I guess the difference would be that theoccasionallyy fundie christian does shoot a doctor but young muslim men are lining up formartyrdomm.

[Recursion]

32. See, that's the fundamental disconnect here

The point of the houri is not that the believer gets to have mind-blowing sex with virgins every day for eternity. The point is that he lives chastely with everyone as brother and sister and is no longer bound by lust.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

30. What if they had to stay virgins for all eternity?

Would that ease your sense of anxiety over the issue?

[damntexdem]

31. I've always suspected that the '72 virgins' was a misprint.

But I've also wondered what the poor virgins did to deserve the punishment they get in the afterlife. ;-)

[NNN0LHI]

33. Kamikaze Diaries

http://martinrothonline.com/Christians&War/Christian_suicide_bomber.htm

The Christian Suicide Bomber

What does a devout Christian do when his country’s authorities force him to become a suicide bomber?

If you’re World War II kamikaze pilot Ichizo Hayashi you write a final letter to your mother stating that “for to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain” and you vow to “be sure to sink an enemy vessel.” Then you fly off on your deadly mission with your Bible and hymn book.

Hayashi’s tale is recounted in a remarkable book, Kamikaze Diaries by Professor Emiko Ohnuki-Tierney of the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

It tells the stories of seven young men who were compelled to become kamikaze pilots – essentially airborne suicide bombers, flying into Allied warships (the Wikipedia entry on kamikaze is here) – by the Japanese military. Most of the seven had been students at elite universities, and they kept diaries, which form the basis of the book.

It’s an invaluable study. It makes clear that high levels of coercion were used to compel the students to “volunteer” for their assignments. And it shows that these were no grinning fanatics – the image that many in the West have of the kamikaze pilots. (An image I vaguely held myself, despite having lived in Japan. It’s not a topic that the Japanese discuss much with Westerners.)

These were highly intelligent, highly thoughtful young men, and though they were very patriotic, they didn’t necessarily want to die. They struggled to accept their fates. They were not blind supporters of their country’s great military adventure.