Ed is "shocked!" tonight that independents would "turn against" the President

[Skidmore]

in Massachusetts. He doesn't understand it. I generally like Ed, but I'm so mad I could just spit nails right now. What the hell does he or anyone else expect? Right up the last minute Ed and his guest have been ripping the Dems right and left, tearing everything apart and not finding anything to get behind.

I WILL NOT live under a teabagger government next time around! That is all that is left of the R party...stupid Palinites and Cheney's fifth column. I REFUSE to hand this nation back to these people.

[Lord Helmet]

1. I am amazed that Mass is even considering sending a teabagger to congress.

How easily they forget about the the last decade.

[truedelphi]

15. But are they doing that,or is the machinery such that the vote has been tipped?

It was not shocking to me to find out through DU that the Prop 8 stuff that "won" in Nov 2008 was set up for its win by twisting the vote count.

Who or what counts your ballots there?

Is Diebold involved?

And if you use paper ballots, are they scanned into a Diebold ballot counter?

[Lord Helmet]

57. no exiting polling raises a red flag

[truedelphi]

68. Good to know, and thank you. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Strange things have been known to happen wherever one party

dominates in a place for a long period of time.

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. Let's see - 70% of the population wants a good public option in their

healthcare bill. The President said he wanted a public option in the healthcare bill. The solid Democratic majority in the senate refused to abide to the electorate's wishes and put a public option in the healthcare bill. Ed calls them on it. The independents see that the Democrats cannot do what they were elected to do and say 'fuck the Democrats' - big surprise there.

And now it's Ed's fault for pointing out what was obvious to anyone looking at it?

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Apparently that is the way it works now. Good news or no news.

[cali]

6. anecdotal evidence out of MA is that people are voting for brown because

they're for lowering taxes, they're afraid the national hcr legislation will be too expensive and because brown has focused on job creation. not to mention that coakley ran a historically terrible campaign. Then there's the state dem corruption scandals.

[JVS]

13. Don't forget that for many voters the bad and good that were packaged together...

in the proposed legislation became unbalanced when the good was stripped out by Lieberman and Nelson. What seemed like an acceptable bill could have become a frightening bill, and who then comes out of the woodwork saying "We had nothing to do with this monster the democrats cooked up", why none other than the republicans. People don't seem to realize that an ugly public wrestling match with lots of compromises on this issue makes only our party look bad because the republicans have abstained from participation.

[amborin]

14. +1

[Drunken Irishman]

17. So they're going to vote for Brown who wouldn't support ANY healthcare reform?

Sorry, but only an idiot would believe that. :eyes:

[NNN0LHI]

22. And a 100% go ape shit when they see the cost of a public option

Thats the part Ed leaves out.

You should have seen the people getting the faints around here whenever the cost of a Medicare buy-in was mentioned.

Don

[treestar]

61. Fuck the independents then

Ignoramuses. Do they not see that their "punishment" just gets them further from what they allege they want? Immature babies.

[Bitwit1234]

3. I agree with ED I am not only shocked I am outraged that anybody

in their right mind, after what bush did to this country, who is NOT a republican nitwit would even consider voting for bush.

[Fire1]

52. You mean, consider voting for Brown. n/t

[Clio the Leo]

5. yes and NOW he wants the health care bill passed!

.... what was he saying three weeks ago?

grrrrrr

[spiritual_gunfighter]

16. He was saying he wanted the health care bill passed

as he always has been saying.

[Egnever]

35. Yup after months of slamming it.

This guy is in it for the money nothing more.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

36. He wanted the Health care bill to be better

which it should be. He never said he didnt support some kind of health care reform. It is dishonest to say otherwise.

[Egnever]

42. If he wasn't trying to charge an arm and a leg for the archives

I would happily link you to many of his shows where he was calling for the bill to be killed. Its dishonest to pretend he wasn't. He had kooch on almost every day for a week and all they did was commiserate on how the bill should be killed.

My guess is you don't really listen to him or you hear what you want.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

49. I listen to him everyday

when things started going south in the Senate bill he debated himself on the issue of killing the bill for the good of the country. He came to the conclusion that he would support the bill. It is possible you missed that, but to claim he is trying to kill the bill and is against health care reform is dishonest.

[Egnever]

55. Yes after a month or two of trashing it he finaly changed his tune

A couple weeks ago. Lots of damage done before that. Little late and myopic in the first place or should we just call him a flip flopper. His problem is he is a kneejerker and spews before he educates himself.

Love the guy cause I'll take all the loud democratic voices we can get but he is no Rachel he is much closer to rush.

[treestar]

63. did he run for the Senate?

If the answer is no, I give not a single fuck what he thinks.

[treestar]

62. I agree.

these pundits are all in it for the money.

They are no different from Rush. I don't see why people don't get that. Even if they appear left wing, they are still doing it just to be in the controversy industry with Rush and make money. I give no credence to these assholes either.

[donheld]

59. NOBODY has fought for the health care bill more than ED

NOBODY

[mopinko]

7. ferfucksakes

wake up ed. look in the mirror.

[LeftHandPath]

8. I'm still not sure 'those' people ever left...

[IndianaJoe]

9. What Honks Me Is Our Ineptitude

With all the "brilliant" pols surrounding Obama, couldn't someone see this coming?

As a dyed-in-the-wool, unabashed liberal, I'm very tired of these unwelcome "surprises".
I thought Bush was bad, of course. But I thought with Obama we'd have more grown-up leadership. Instead we get portraits of us -- Dems-- floundering around with health care, consumer protection, global warming, etc. I'm also tired of Tea-baggers being taken seriously and their daily affronts going unanswered. I'm very tired too of all the "hands-across the aisle" stuff when all it gets us is insults, sneers, and backhands to the face from Republicans. I'm very tired of kissing "Blue Dog Ass" and cottoning up to the likes of Lieberman. I'm very disillusioned tonight, thinking that Kennedy's seat -- the man who personified universal health care -- might just go to a Republican hell bent on taking the hope for it away from us. If this is "mainstream" America -- the "center" -- well, I'll opt for Canada. I'm very, very depressed about this. Bear with me.

[IndianaJoe]

10. Repost- Sorry

[nevergiveup]

11. My thoughts exactly

Up till a couple months ago I would listen every day to his radio show but now I don't bother. It got to be too damn depressing with his continual ranting against Democrats and Obama. Constructive criticism is always good but habitual whining leaves folks demoralized and not very motivated to get involved and participate when it is crunch time.

[jsamuel]

12. do I have to repeat this over and over again

I guess so since I am just some guy who blogs. Maybe one of these times someone will listen to me. Anyway...

The failure to pass progressive policies turns off both progressives and independents who are attracted to people who have strong ideas and beliefs. The progressives will be demoralized, but will ultimately come back at election time. The independents will not, especially if there is another person out there with strong ideas/beliefs to vote for. This is because of one of the most misunderstood concepts, I believe in our politics today. Independents are not centrist at all for the most part. They are not made up of people who believe in liberal and conservative policies both. They are made up of people who really don't know what they desire, but are attracted to people who sound like they do. The current situation with bailouts and the economy only makes this situation worse.

[Skidmore]

18. Are progressives really that thinskinned?

[jsamuel]

20. I was trying to explain it to Ed.

I don't understand how your question applies to my comment. I didn't see his show, so I might have missed exactly what you are talking about.

[Marr]

23. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. n/t

[salguine]

54. Why do you just assume that ..."progressives...will ultimately come back at election

time"? I'm a progressive, and I voted for Obama, and I sure's hell won't be back at election time. And I know a lot of others who won't either.

[treestar]

64. What losers

They stand for nothing, so they fall for anything.

[Leopolds Ghost]

66. Independents really don't know what they desire, but are attracted to people who sound like they do.

Many DUers don't understand or agree, they are paranoid that "independents" and the "working class" are all secret right wingers, racists and plants. "why else would they not be staunch Dems after all that has happened?"

[Skidmore]

19. Joan Walsh was just on and she spoke the truth.

She basically said that shrill talk doesn't get work done and some of the shrillest speakers on the left are not organizers.

[Salmonslayer]

25. Agreed .....Bitching and whining instead of analysis and action

is a waste of energy.

Also, I think there is a general underestimation of the rights ability to win. if Democrats are so freaking superior, how do we lose in the bluest of blue states (assuming brown wins here)to "repukes", "teabaggers" and "knuckle draggers".

This loss falls squarely on the democrats shoulders. It should have been an easy win. Looking in the mirror will be the only way to fix the mistakes behind this loss for future elections.

[marlakay]

24. I have found personally that most independents are not truly

that. They tend to lean either right or left and only after a major ordeal like Bush, Nixon, etc go the other way.

So if Obama doesn't give them what they thought they simply will go back to what they normally vote for.

[Salmonslayer]

28. I think the left took their eye

off the prize and lost the middle that wins elections. Obama would not have won if he did not own the middle/independents. I may not like it but it is the truth.

[Egnever]

26. Ed did everything he could to ensure this result

I called him months ago and told him he was spewing hatred and demoralizing the base and he blew me off. Ed has some nice rants ocasionaly but in general I find him poorly informed and reactionary. Hes our limbaugh.

[KoKo]

31. That's NOT TRUE...that you could say that says you don't listen to his Radio show

and don't know he is funded by the UNIONS...

[Egnever]

34. I listen to him all the time

And he is wrong time and again. He is not funded by unions one look at his webpage says all you need to know about ED he is in it for the cash just like limbaugh. His page is one never ending shill for cash.

He is on our side to be sure but he has no regard for facts only reactionary BS.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

38. You are just pissed because he blew you off

He has supported health care reform from the beginning and has been passionate about it. You are being dishonest because he didnt want to talk to you.

[Egnever]

44. LOL I was on with him for almost ten minutes

Mostly cause I had the facts and he didnt. It was right around the time kooch was voting against the house version. They were both blowing eachother over how bad it was and how it should be killed and how Obama was betraying the base. He couldnt even argue with me cause he had no clue about the provisions that were in the bill.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

27. I've been saying all along. It has been the Dems who have been playing right

into the Repukes' hand by trashing our own. He and Rachel simply would not let up. The base is demoralize because we listen to them. I had to stop for awhile. There's a difference between criticism, honest debate, and just straight up demonization of one's own party. Of course the Independents and many Democrats are going to turn on the party. They've been fed a lot of whining crap from the likes of Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann. I love them all, but they do a disservice. If voter discontent is high and turnout is low, they have to share some of that responsibility due to their constant whining and bitching.

[sendero]

40. WHO CARES?

"Trashing our own?" "Our own" wouldn't tax the middle class to bail out a bunch of bankers who OUGHT TO BE BEHIND BARS.

"Our own" would not try to pass a "reform" bill that is mostly a sop to industry interests, all the while trying to frame it as a "historic achievement".

"Our own" would have at least gotten us out of Iraq by now.

"Our own"? Maybe your own, but not my own and not most progressives' own.

You, like so many here lately, want to SHOOT THE MESSENGER. It's not the messenger that created this mess.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

45. You're blaming the ENTIRE Democratic Party which is not responsible.

There are some true soldiers in the party whose voices got drowned out by the corporatists. And that includes Obama and the Blue Dogs. So you can bash me all you want. Your being a jerk still doesn't change the fact that there is a very influential small group of Corporatists in the Democratic Party who have sold us out. NOT ALL OF THEM!!

[sendero]

47. You can count the senators..

... who aren't sellouts on one hand.

[martymar64]

56. Blue Dogs ARE the Corporatists

That is part of why they are Blue Dogs. They favor the interests of corporations and the wealthy elites (Bankers/Industry/Wall St) over working people and Main Street. They are the ones that want Democrats to disavow our principles. They are the ones pushing for "entitlement reform" so they can dismantle and privatize Medicare and Social Security.

Blue Dogs are not our friends.

[Political Heretic]

29. Ed's not really all that bright.

Nice guy, dumb as a bag of hammers.

[JVS]

30. How is it Ed's fault that the democrats' attempts to appeal to moderates have failed.

It isn't as though Obama has been acting like some kind of Left-wing version of Bush.

[KoKo]

32. LOL's....the usual folks spewing their "Talking Points." n/t

[Skidmore]

33. Read response #27--that poster says it best.

[JVS]

37. So are Maddow, Ed, and (I'm going to take a wild guess here) DUers completely to blame for this...

or do Boxer and Durbin get to take some of the blame too for their demotivational language http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7301751 And let's not forget how lovely Rahm was in his telling the liberals we're irrelevant.

[S_E_Fudd]

39. Democrats have yet to completely comprehend someting Republicans understand...

1. The average voter is generally ignorant..

2. The average voter is lazy about informing themselves on the issues...

3. The average vote is highly selfish...voting primarily their own self interest...

Appeals to a higher good, or to help their fellow man only go so far...that limit being the point at which it begins to affect their own pocketbook...

It is alot easier to campaign to most peoples base instincts than it is to get them to comprehend complicated issues, or to worry about issues that they don't think will ever affect them...

[rox63]

41. This election is not about the president

The media is playing it that way. But to voters in Massachusetts, it's about Massachusetts issues. That said, I sure as hell hope the teabagger loses big.

[BlueJac]

43. Half the Dems have turned right of center.........

and the rest are labeled far left. Ed can't figure out where he is let alone anyone else!

[butterfly77]

46. For the past week or so Ed...

and Bill Press have had me screaming at these silly assed people,they sat there for months ripping on the President just like the Repubs.

[LeftyAndProud60]

48. Part of this is Ed's fault. He's been trying to divide the party for wks. NT

[butterfly77]

50. add Bill Press...

and now he calls his callers stupid when he spent weeks giving them every reason to hate the President over Health care,everybody who listen doesn't really know how politics work so when he and Ed go out there spouting off like a RepubliCON they want to change their tune on other issues when they have lost these people at that point.

[Leopolds Ghost]

67. Anyone who supports Masscare (mandated privatized insurance) IS a Republicon in my book.

Along with the Dems who support universal warrantless wiretapping of all communications.

Another healthily large fifth column.

[salguine]

51. Who turned against who first? Just asking.

[The Gunslinger]

53. wait till the Palinites elect her or Jeb Bush the next President.

[Fire1]

58. Yep. I've got three years to get my shit in order and I'm out of

the good ole us of a.

[upi402]

60. The "Democrats" deserved to ripped ya fool

Wake up! Ed challenges authority and balless wonders here think it's his fault Martha lost!?!

WTF

There is NO opposition to corporatism and the whores in BOTH parties are the fault... Not the messenger of truth! Both parties are sold out. All Republicans and most Dems.

Power WILL return to those Rethugs unless the "Democratic" majority dismantles the corporate media and changes campaign election funding, and vote counting.
It's that simple. And it wont get done. So who's fault is that?... mine because I spoke truth? I'm with Ed and all others who fight corporatist rule.

[democracy1st]

65. K & R rant on !