Democrats promised real change and didn't deliver.

[rateyes]

And, that's why Democrats didn't deliver Coakley to the Senate.

Do what you say you are going to do and people will support you.

Promise a public option, and then take it away, and people won't support you.

Promise to care more about Main Street than Wall Street, and then bail out Wall Street and leave Main Street hurting, and people won't support you.



If Democrats want to salvage the November elections, yes they will MOVE LEFT, and will deliver the change that was promised.

Otherwise, fuggetaboutit.

[DebbieCDC]

1. K&R

Truth!

[ChrisMCV]

33. I think more truth in that then most will believe

Looking at the general voter, not the strongly partisan on either side;
I think that after the last 8 years, the constant drumbeat on the left about change and such was a motivating force to vote for Obama. His message carried a lot of weight with people.
Then with the financial crisis and the health care reform debate, the overall impression most got was that the D's were no more likely to go against corporations then the R's.
The R's said they were a friend to business and acted that way. People grew tired of that and voted for change.
The D's said they were not friends to the corporate system, but appear to be acting like they are (bailouts, supposed deals with big pharma, etc).
They may not like the R's any more then the D's, but the R's were at least more frank about what they stood for.

Yeah, I am a conservative and I am not saying one side or the other is right or wrong, but I think that the perception IS how I am stating it. I hate that money and lobbiest have so much sway in Washington over both sides of the aisle. Both sides will say what ever they can do get elected and as for actually representing you, they think you can go to hell, they don't give a damn.

I think that is why, even with the Kooks, crazies, fundies and bigots, the Tea Party movement has grabbed on to people the way it has. A lot of people are like, 'yeah, there are some nuts, but they are not part of the establishment'. I think it will not be long till there is some kind of equal but opp. movement on the left too.

Overall good effect - stirring up the establishment on both sides.
Overall bad effect - real risk of someone REALLY crazy on one or both sides getting their hands on real power. I have watched in a lot of the forums of both political leanings and both are starting to display a divide between those of a moderate view, and those of a more extreme view. Middle grounders that are starting to get involved on one side or another are being pulled mostly to one or the other extreme, which puts us on what I think is a very risky path.

As for my opinion of Brown. I don't think he was all that stellar. The thing about being the vote to break the super majority was a great political ploy, but I don't think he won as much as his opponent lost. She was far from an 'A' list candidate and I think she was WAY to weak to be expected to step into those shoes. That office was held for so long out of respect for the man and she didn't give any reason for that respect to be carried over to her. Looking at the prospect of a new face in that seat probably made many think that since it was change, let it be radical change.

Trying to be fair minded about this and tossing my opinion out there is challanging, so forgive my wordiness. I try not to tread roughly on this board as there is no good reason not to ban me except that I think we together are all Americans and there has got to be some who will be reasonable with the opposition view.

[AndyA]

2. What a concept! Make promises, and then actually KEEP THEM!

The people in Massachusetts obviously wanted a right wing Nazi, and now they've got him.

Congratulations. :(

[jezebel]

3. The people who voted for Brown today did not vote for him because the Dems dropped a PO. They voted

for Brown because they do not want HCR to pass.

[rateyes]

4. And, a good percentage of those who don't want this piss poor HCR bill to pass

are progressives. It's not what was promised.

[jezebel]

5. Those are not the votes that Brown got today. If you don't see that you are in denial I'm sorry to

say.

[rateyes]

8. And, Coakley didn't get them either. nt

[SemiCharmedQuark]

11. There was very high turnout in MA today. Progressives staying home was not the problem.

[rateyes]

25. The problem is that the change that was promised was not delivered.

Democrats promised that lobbyists wouldn't run the show. Lobbyists are running the show.

Democrats promised help for Main Street. Wall Street got all the help.

Democrats promised real health CARE (not INSURANCE) reform. The bill doesn't provide it.

The electorate is ANGRY, and they let that anger be heard.

[jezebel]

16. I agree with you there. Maybe Coakley would have had more Dem voters then but how can you overlook

the huge swing in the Independents? Dems cannot lose them to this degree and win elections.

[rateyes]

23. The independents wanted the change they were promised.

They didn't get it, and they are pissed.

[Codeine]

42. Then they would have stayed home,

not cast a vote for the one person who could guarantee nothing will be done to advance HCR in this country.

Your analysis isn't just flawed, it's outright insane.

[polpilot]

12. Right on!! They HAVE healthcare, better than the shit currently served up.

[DefenseLawyer]

6. Harry S. Truman:

"Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time."

[jpak]

7. Vote for Palin 2012

and get yourself some real change

:thumbsdown:

:puke:

[Forkboy]

10. How's this tactic working you so far, jpak?

[Ken Burch]

14. I'm sure it gives him multiple orgasms...so it works for him THAT way...

As actual politics...not so much...

[jpak]

29. Teabagger Scott Brown wins Ted Kennedy's Senate Seat in Mass.

how does that grab ya?

Is that change or what?

[Forkboy]

35. Doesn't answer my question.

I'm already aware of tonight's news, but thank you for the recap. The question was, how are your tactics, as displayed above, helping you get a more Democratic agenda passed? Or are they? Or do you really care?

[Codeine]

9. Bull.

They didn't vote for Brown because they wanted a public option. That's the most illogical, self-serving, delusional idea ever.

Turnout was high, and something like 22% of Ds may have voted for Brown. How is that a clarion call to single-payer? That sounds like people flat-out don't want HCR at all.

[rateyes]

13. They don't want THIS health INSURANCE (not care) reform.

[Codeine]

24. And their way of telling us that they want a more progressive plan

was to elect a republican who will kill any reform at all?

I ain't buyin it. That's magical thinking.

And a Rassmussen poll conducted today shows that 53% of Mass voters approve of Obama, and only 38% disapprove. So your notion that they've repudiated his choices rings rather fucking hollow.

[rateyes]

It was a shot across the bow.

Don't keep your promises to us, we won't keep your ass in congress. Congress has shown that they care more for the corporations than they do the people, and the people are pissed off.

[rateyes]

18. And, BTW, I also talked about Main Street and Wall Street and the bailouts.

The point is about broken promises. Had the promise of change been kept, we'd be swearing in Coakley because the country would be doing much better.

[leeroysphitz]

20. Spin it any way you like but if the people were happy with things as they are

they wouldn't have voted republican.

[Edweird]

21. 66% support single payer. That is a winner. Corporate giveaway RW bullshit is a loser.

[Codeine]

26. If they really supported single-payer

then why the hell would they vote for a republican?

I just don't buy that figure.

[Edweird]

37. Do you believe that the senate bill, which Obama says gives him "95% of what he wants",

meets his campaign promises? I don't. To me it's the opposite. Clearly I'm not the only one. Take away from it whatever you want. But I'm telling you, in no uncertain terms, that single payer would enable him to write his own ticket. Failure to keep his promises while repudiating corporate interests will end the Democratic majority.

[Codeine]

38. The facts do not support your conclusions. nt

[Edweird]

40. I guess we'll know this November. I hope I'm wrong.

[Codeine]

41. this november we'll still disagree.

I suspect we will take our own lessons from the results, and we'll be equally certain that the other is wrong.

[begin_within]

Or else they'll just say they're going to move left, then after the election

conveniently forget all about that promise.

[leeroysphitz]

22. Come on. WHEN have they EVER? n/t

[begin_within]

28. 1992: "Putting People First"

then 1994: signs NAFTA

2008: "Change we can believe in." "Change we need."

then 2009:

[cali]

15. that's largely nonsense. coakley ran a historically bad campaign

and this race largely hinged on little known local factors- such as the corruption of prominent dem state pols. liberals voted for coakley, but independents went for brown. I agree with you re what the dems should have done, but their failure in D.C. is only a small part of why she lost.

[readmoreoften]

17. Bingo. What the Democratic Party needs to do is move less and address class issues.

Of course, then they'd lose all the corporate crony fundie. So really, what we have is a de facto right wing corporate government even before the voting starts.

[Yavin4]

19. Pass Legislation That Improves The Lives of Americans

and they will re-elect you. Pass legislation that turns the lives of Americans into shit, and they will vote you out.

[Atman]

27. Yeah! A whole fucking YEAR and Dems didn't fix George Bush's mess yet!

FUCK THEM! Let's put the Republicans back in charge!

:eyes:

Jesus fucking christ.

.

[rateyes]

30. They didn't try to clean up Bush's mess.

No prosecutions for crimes.

Continued Bush policies for the economy.

Put down the real reforms that would have cleaned up health care.

People can see that the Congress has NO INTENTIONS of keeping their promises. NONE.

[Atman]

32. You're right...all the more reasons to put the criminals back in charge!

Makes sense to me. Not.

.

[rateyes]

39. People do funny things when they are pissed.

No damned way I'M voting for my fucking Blue Dog Rep again.

I've quit giving a shit whether the seat is held by a real Republican or a Democrat who votes like a Republican.

[Atman]

43. You're right...like letting the criminals back in to finish stealing their stuff.

I just don't buy it, rateyes. Your argument makes no sense...people are so pissed off, they'd rather put the criminals back in charge after only ONE YEAR than allow the current administration time to do it's job. Makes no sense. But you go ahead and keep spouting that bullshit. I'm sure someone will believe you. After all, this IS still DU.

.

[dflprincess]

34. They didn't even get the mop and bucket out of the closet

If they'd made any kind of move in that direction people would believe the Demcrats were heading down the right path.

[Atman]

36. You're right! So we should vote the Republicans back in!

I get it. Not.

.

[dflprincess]

44. Did I say that?

If the Democrats think the voters are going to be happy just listening to empty rhetoric they're sadly mistaken.

It's a hard truth, deal with it.

[Raine]

31. K & R nt

:kick: :thumbsup:

[greatscott15]

45. Obama Focused on Wrong Things

Should have started out really focusing on the economy, not healthcare and cap and trade. Stimulus bill will be an anchor around his re=election by 2012. After he got economy back on track, then he could have gone for the home run.

Now all is lost. The moderate dems will run for the hills.

[TicketyBoo]

46. Talk about flawed thinking.

A super right-wing Senator elected today is going to move things to the LEFT?

I don't think so.
You and everyone who agrees with your line of thought must be ecstatic with this guy's election. Yecch.

[ncteechur]

47. get real you moron coakley lost because she sucked.

the republicans bailed out the banks and wall street
never promised a public option--said he liked it but never hung his hat on it
people didn't vote for coakley--obama is still president she lost he didn't



he has done most of what he said he would do and in one year that is quite an accomplishment


the fucking woman took a month off in the middle of the race

[rateyes]

49. You want to meet me face to face and call me a moron?

Nice thing for a ncteechur to say to a gateechur.

[jgraz]

48. Nailed it.

K&R