People can still be lied to

[sandnsea]

and still believe the lies.

That's the only lesson there is to take from this election. If 2/3 of the population is telling lies about the policies in question, then there's no way 1/3 can win.

LIES:

Government is going to control health care.
People will go to jail for not buying health insurance.
We could have let banks fail and still had an economy.
Nothing has been done for Main Street.
Nothing has been done for workers.
We didn't help the unemployed.
The unemployed are getting free money and won't go back to work.
Obama promised to get out of Afghanistan.
Obama created a $9 trillion debt.
Obama is no better than Bush.
Obama is no better than Marx.
Schools are going to be privatized.
Obama is having the government take over schools.
Cap and trade will kill the economy.
The government is letting coal take over.
Taxes have gone up.
The rich aren't being taxed more.
And on and on and on...

[uponit7771]

1. Coakly didn't define Brown and that was it for her, now MA will see his real true person

[sandnsea]

2. After 8 years of Republicans - they ought to be defined by now

The fact that there is anybody in the country, and in Mass particularly, that still believes Republicans can govern - is the crux of the problem.

[mreilly]

8. Couldn't have said it better myself

After Nixon resigned from office my mother and father said "Surely the people have learned what a mistake it is to elect Republicans."

I grew up in the eighties. After Reagan's hideous two terms were up I said "Surely the people have finally learned what a mistake it is to elect Republicans."

Then came George H.W. Bush.

When Bush's disastrous term was up and he was swept from office I said "Surely the people have finally learned what a mistake it is to elect Republicans."

Then came George W. Bush.

When Bush's miserable first term was up I said "Surely the people have finally learned what a mistake it is to elect Republicans."

Then Bush was re-elected.

Finally Obama won and I said "Surely the people have finally learned what a mistake it is to elect Republicans."

Then came Scott Brown.

I am close to 40 now and am sure that for the remainder of my life, every 2, 4, or 6 years I will say "Surely the people have finally learned what a mistake it is to elect Republicans."

And I am equally sure that the people will continue to find new ways to ignore history and repeat the errors of the past.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. The Alternative Was Also Being Lied To

My favorite: "I didn't run on the public option".

People are desperate - they had no good choice here.

[sandnsea]

5. And that matters how?

How does that statement affect getting a public option or not? Since when do you get chocolate cake for dessert by burning down the restaurant?

[MannyGoldstein]

7. The OP Was About People Voting For Lies, No? nt

[sandnsea]

10. He ran on the insurance exchange

But even if you believe the one comment about the public option is a lie, how does it help to get a public option to rip apart the only people who can pass it? Is there really no other way to participate in government?

[MannyGoldstein]

11. No, He Ran On The Public Option

e.g., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIHM-JxJqy0&feature=related

There are plenty more clips of him saying this - let me know if you want to see them.

So, Obama lied.

The OP was about believing lies. My point is that we had to vote for one set of lies or another.

[sandnsea]

12. He supported a public option all year

There is no lie. He never said he would veto any bill that didn't have a public option. He did not run on the public option as the centerpiece to health care reform. Saying that he did is just another lie. Pat yourself on the back for contributing to the confusion of the voter.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. It All Depends On What The Definition Of "Is" Is?

Look, Obama forcefully and repeatedly said that the bill he signs will have a public option. Now he says that he never campaigned on the public option.

If Obama said "Look, I really meant to have a public option but the Republicans/Blue Dogs/Whatevers stopped me", I might be OK with that (although noty if he never really tried hard, which he didn't). But to say he never campaigned on it is simply a lie.

Is there a secret code word that candidates must use to make it a campaign promise? If they repeatedly make an unequivocating claim, I don't see how we can call it otherwise.

[sandnsea]

15. He planned for it to

The votes weren't there.

Is it really that complicated for you to comprehend? The Votes Weren't There. From the beginning.

"Campaign On" typically means the key components of a campaign, not every single solitary word written. And the really sad and pathetic thing, is I think you know that and believe that. I think if Ralph Nader were President, he wouldn't get a public option either. And you wouldn't expect him to. But if he did keep the troops in Iraq, he'd say he didn't "campaign on" pulling them all out immediately and guess what, I happen to know that he didn't if you read the fine print. But that's politics. Fine Print doesn't win campaigns, ask John Kerry who was attacked by the left in a similar fashion, with similar results.

And the point is, if you want Republicans in office, keep doing what you're doing.

If you want progress, stop nitpicking and outright lying, and help create a unified message. That's how Republicans win. Period.

[MannyGoldstein]

16. What Would It Take For You To Admit The President Lied?

I'm flummoxed. He said the same thing many, many times, then claimed he didn't say it.

[sandnsea]

17. That kind of shit is why we lose

I understand what those words mean.

But to people like you, creating media fodder by nitpicking over absolutely nothing is more important than making progress in getting legislation passed.

Where was the door to door campaign in Arkansas or Nebraska? When did something useful happen to educate people on what the public option is?

All I've heard for the last 6 months has been attacks on Democrats. That's all anybody else in the country is hearing. Why would anybody for them?

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Lying is a Big Deal

The fundamental issue is that Obama promised change, was elected with a mandate for change, but instead chose to pursue a Clintonesque triangulation policy. The promise of change was Obama's big lie, however: but even though the vast majority of Americans feel that there's not been real change, it's hard for us to quantify. They might think "maybe there's been change; I don't feel it yet, but I will". If they trust the President, they'd be OK for a while.

But when the President became an *obvious* liar, by lying about something so simple, so fundamental, and so disprovable, he destroyed trust. Without trust, people have a hard time believing promises like "change is happening - you'll see it later".

As to "Where was the door to door campaign in Arkansas or Nebraska? When did something useful happen to educate people on what the public option is?", nobody in my lifetime was better at those things than Candidate Obama. President Obama chose to blow them off, and here we are.

[Zavulon]

4. Most are certainly lies, but is the second one?

Everything I've seen indicates that the "go to jail for not buying health insurance" thing is in the bill and is true. You'd make me very happy if you can point me to a solid refutation.

[sandnsea]

6. I've never seen anything that say sit's in the bill

So maybe you're the one that needs to point me to the section that says people will go to jail.

[Zavulon]

9. Never mind, then, I'll ask someone else.

I'll let you find it yourself. I have yet to hear a Democratic politician refute the charge, which is why I was hoping you could. Sorry to have bothered you.

[sandnsea]

13. Oh brother

After this crap was concocted against the House bill by Republicans using the wild mental contortions, the Senate bill specifically says no imprisonment or civil penalties for ignoring the tax.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/11/gop_charge_skipping_insurance.html

The left recycled a Republican pile of shit, and this isn't the only pile, and then want to blame Obama for the lack of support for this health care bill and the election.

[Cha]

18. scott brown is all about lies..bottom line

Is he going to work for the people of Mass or the party of NO?