The real lesson from tonight's loss is

[jgraz]

Poll question: The real lesson from tonight's loss is

[RevCheesehead]

1. Shit happens.

:shrug:

[pscot]

37. All politics is local

Thomas P.(Tip)O'Neill said that.

[jgraz]

39. The definition of "local" has changed since Tip was in power.

Welcome to the Internet Age.

[suzie]

42. Yeah, welcome to the age of people peddling the same old racist garbage as always,

but now they can pass themselves off as "liberal bloggers", thanks to the internet.

Same old, same old.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rhett o rick]

50. In politics, shit doesnt "just happen". There was a reason that the leaders of the Democratic

Party lost this race. It wasnt incompetence.
She ran a terrible campaign. Why? Wasnt this race important enough?
Pres Obama's support was late and minimal.
She conceded way too early. Why concede at all?

[RevCheesehead]

71. From my observations, "in politics"

shit is pretty much the status quo. Call me a cynic, but I don't believe the system works anymore.

[robicon]

68. The real lesson was conveyed in John Stewart's "Mass Backwards" segment

Yes he's a comedian, but he made some very insightful remarks.

Democrats had 60 votes and did nothing. They've have a greater margin of senate seats than the Republicans ever had (since 1920's or 30's) and yet they've accomplished nothing.

Massachusetts citizens like their state-run health care. Obama wants to change that. Not going to work.

Bailing out major Wall Street players while voters sit at home, unemployed and desperate shows a complete detachment from the constituency.


Coakley appeared elitist, arrogant, and aloof...until someone reminded her that she was supposed to be campaigning.


You want to know how to win? Fiscal responsibility/conservatism and social libertarianism. Federal government cannot continue to try and "spend its way out of debt". The federal government should be limited in size and role. Unfortunately, neither party would allow it. "Term limits for senators? Limit federal powers? Reduce government spending? What?!! that would reduce the power of a senator's position...how would they funnel kickbacks without pork barrel projects?"

My mother's a liberals liberal. A quasi-feminist who remembers and idolized JFK's policy and ideology. Even she is now disillusioned the the D party. As an independent I remind her that JFK would be considered "conservative" by today's standards.



You guys want to win? And you want to move further left? You've lost your minds.

[Jamastiene]

2. Move left

<------------

[Sebastian Doyle]

3. The real lesson is....

<------- This.

[jgraz]

4. BINGO

And anyone who acts like the DLC.

[devilgrrl]

7. +1

You got it!

[subterranean]

11. +1

[leftstreet]

21. ++1

[donheld]

65. Yes

[dkf]

5. It's not about left or right. It's about making sense

[JVS]

13. Yep, you need a coherent narrative. And when you explain why pending legislation sucks by..

launching into a story about how the republicans are stonewalling, and then there's Lieberman to deal with, and then a lot of the politicians who are ostensibly on your own side are assholes who keep making the legislation worse, what you're going to notice is that people really don't want to listen anymore

[dkf]

18. It does sound lame when you put it that way.

[ibegurpard]

6. populism

that's what people want
Brown appealed to that even though he's full of shit.

[Truth2Tell]

61. Yep. And we better wake the F up and take note. nt

[XemaSab]

8. #2 + #3

=win.

[jgraz]

12. Move left AND stick to the center?

How do you do both? :shrug:

[XemaSab]

27. Move left, fuck the DLC, and make Howard Dean the king of the democrats

:D

[jgraz]

31. Now THAT, I can get behind.

:applause:

[maglatinavi]

38. Dean

I agree!!! How is it possible that a bright man like Obama could be so dense? Is it his advisers? I don't think that I want to watch the news and the pundits for at least a month... ... Hillary/Dean 2012 or Dean/Hillary 2012!!! Boy!!! Am I angry!!!
:grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :nuke: :grr: :nuke:
Nuke the WH with its frigging advisors...

[JVS]

49. I agree. Sign me up for your Dean-bagger army!

[jgraz]

58. "Dean-bagger"

:rofl: perfect

[gravity]

9. The Dems need to get their shit together

This isn't about arguing about moving to the left or right.

The Democrats need to reorganize and take on the Republicans. Don't take anything for granite.

[JamesA1102]

26. I agree.

I think this a more about strategy and communication than about policy. Problem is the MSN is not on their side and never has been.

[treestar]

10. Just a bad campaign

Only idiots think this is any kind of message to move left. How is voting for a republican a message to move to the left?

[jgraz]

17. Honestly, it's like some people on this board *want* to lose.

Our center-right, DLC candidate just got her ass kicked in Massachusetts. Which part of that are you not getting?

[napi21]

14. OTHER! Dems need to learn how to fight! The Dems aren't stupid!

I know most of them know how to fight or they wouldn"t have won elections! Suddenly they get in their seat & they forget???? Tpnight they better realize that they must FIGHT for their survival! Forget fighting for the people. They need more motivation than that! GET THE DAMN JOB DONE! People might not like everything you do, but they'll respect you for moving things through and ACTUALLY GOVERNING!

[BunkerHill24]

15. I vote for: "Something Else"

I thought this was about voter's remorse: "we gave you the WH, and the Congress" but "You didn't listen to us".

[xultar]

Easy. The real lesson is that people don't want no weak kneed losers

in the Senate, House, WH etc.

The laundry list is too fucking long but to start it off...
Why isn't Obama smacking some fucking heads
Why is Geitner still employed
Why is Rahm still employed
Why did the WH let himself get PLAYED by the Pubs on HC
Why did they pick Martha in the fucking first place
Why did they let the gang of six fuck up HCR
Why did the WH waste time smacking Faux when he should have been smacking Grassley
Why didn't the white house clobber Nelson over that deal for NE
Why didn't the WH put Lieberman in line or kicked the fuck out.

[jgraz]

19. Yep. It's hard to vote for a party you don't respect.

:banghead:

[dkf]

23. Good questions all.

[Forkboy]

16. That 10+% unemployment means the party in power is fucked.

Among others....

[Truth2Tell]

62. Scapegoat the banks.

It's our only exit. I'm 100% serious.

[NYC_SKP]

20. You could use this poll model for any question and the top answer would be, "move to the left"...

If one of the choices is "Democrats need to move to the left", it doesn't matter what you ask.

:P

[jgraz]

25. Maybe that should tell you something.

I dare say the people on this board are more committed and more politically savvy than the average voter. If most of them think the Democrats need to move leftward, maybe the party should start listening.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jgraz]

47. Oh look, suzie's here.

Speaking of hysterical... :eyes:

[Nite Owl]

22. Move to the left definitely

but also we need to see action not just nice words-keep your promises,
never deliberately piss off your base

[bik0]

24. Mass voters do not want health care "shoved down their throat"

On Fox tonight Frank Luntz interviewed a focus group (around 25 people) of mostly Obama supporters asking those who voted for Obama and also for Brown - why the switch? There were 4 individuals in the group who switched and all cited health care as the main issue - complaining about health care legislation being "forced down their throats". Today's results are not surprising...

From a Sept 2009 article in the Boston Globe...

State’s health system popular

“Three years in operation, and with 97 percent of people covered, you have a majority of support, and that is a lesson for Washington,’’ said Robert J. Blendon, a health policy professor at the Harvard School of Public Health and the poll’s co-director.

The poll found that 79 percent of those surveyed wanted the law to continue, though a majority said there should be some changes, with cost reductions cited as the single most important change that needs to be made.

Only 11 percent of state residents favored repealing the law, similar to last year’s finding.

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/09/28/s... /

[jgraz]

29. You are seriously quoting Frank Fucking Luntz?

People desperately want healthcare reform. They just don't want *this* healthcare reform. Luntz is too stupid to know the difference.

[bik0]

I was quoting Obama voters who switched to Brown

[maglatinavi]

28. loss...

Democrats need to move to the left and not be wishy washy about it. You cannot give a little step forward and another backwards...The only one to blame is Obama and his wishy washy behaviour... I am so angry that I could spit!!! If only Hillary were the Potus we would have had health care reform while Teddy was alive... and all other changes needed instead of the hesitancy of Obama and his ilk... Gee, am I furious!
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[smalll]

30. Just a bad campaign. Martha Chokely sucks! /nt

[galileoreloaded]

32. Other. We are fighting a populism of a dying Empire. We don't really know WHERE to run. n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

33. The real lesson of tonight's loss is...

...stop reading the results of one statewide special election as a national referendum on your current pet political hate.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. I voted for #4, but I disagree that there's "no lesson". It's a lesson all right.

Just because something has to be learned over and over doesn't mean it's not a lesson, quite the contrary.

[andym]

35. At DU, the "lesson" for any event is to move left.

I basically agree. But, I'm not sure that the voters voting for Brown would agree, since he is the most conservative Republican to be elected from MA since the days of Hoover.

[jgraz]

36. I see WeDidIt found my poll.

:rofl:

[Artie Bucco]

40. Simple, Patriotic populism.

I am a leftist but it is hard for left to make traction without being somewhat nationalist. Bust Wall Street down to size, dismantle big pharma, do away with health insurance monopolies. Health insurance companies are to me no better than Mafias. The democrats should look at the Populist movements of the late 19th and the early 20th century.

[Blasphemer]

41. Adapt or Perish

Whether you look at the situation locally or nationally, it is clear that an inability to adapt to the electorate and the political winds spells certain doom. The reported attitude of Coakley's campaign mirrors the attitude that a great deal of Democratic leadership in D.C. has.

[Dogmudgeon]

44. Democrats need to stop WHINING and start WORKING

--d!

[rhett o rick]

51. What do you suggest?

Our party leaders have told us to STFU. They dont seem to care who won in MA. They dont care that Diebolt machines were used. They chose Coakley, WTF.

Please tell me what we can do?

[Dogmudgeon]

56. Our party leaders are US.

And the titular leaders have NOT told us to STFU -- having said nothing, there was no possible reason to tell anyone to STFU.

Nor can you blame this on Diebold voting machines; they were rigorously inspected and subject to strict oversight.

"They" didn't choose Coakley, the primary voters did. If she was such a poor choice, why didn't anyone say so, in public? Blogging it is worthless.

So what can we do? Organize! Work! Vote! This idle commentary from the Internet is useless. The Internet is for coordinating our efforts, not for living our political lives.

--d!

[rhett o rick]

66. Saying that our party leaders are us, is like saying the troops are the generals.

"Blogging is worthless" and "This idle commentary...is useless". In other words, STFU. Work hard and dont question the decisions of your leaders.

The "big tent" party has a major problem. We best fix it before Nov.

[Dogmudgeon]

72. I'm NOT telling you to STFU.

I'm telling EVERYBODY to stop whining, to cut out the self-pity and breast-beating, and to keep our objectives in sight.

And nobody is telling you to be obedient, or that you are an insignificant trooper under the command of political generals. I hope you don't believe that. We lost an election; it was a painful loss, at that. Should we let it break us?

The very fact that so many people here are taking that personally tells me that it's the proverbial gorilla in the room -- a gorilla I'd rather have terrifying the Republicans than re-writing our suicide note. Complaining is anger turned back on the complainer. My point is that we MUST take that fight to the forces of reaction and ignorance, and NOT unleash it on our own.

And as you yourself said, we have a big job ahead of us for November. So -- do we give up, or do we fight on?

We can take a few days to shake it off. Then we have to get back to the work that we have taken on freely and purposefully. Not as obedient drones, but as activists. I guarantee that it will be difficult and occasionally painful. I also guarantee that I will be there, too.

--d!

[rhett o rick]

74. I know, i know. I just had to vent. I agree, we got to keep working even harder now. nt

[moondust]

45. ...

don't run a rather frail-appearing candidate against a truck-drivin' sports kinda guy in a big sports kinda state.

:hide:

[amborin]

48. we needed the PO, and so much more!

[Chulanowa]

52. There are two lessons here

One, that received by the Democratic party, is that Republicans won, therefor the key to winning is to be more like republicans.

Two, we the voters received the lesson that "staying home" is no way to get what you want in an election.

Distressingly these same lessons keep getting shown to Democrats. I think one may be the cause of the other.

[jgraz]

53. So... the real lesson is that national Democrats are morons?

:shrug:

[Chulanowa]

54. if DU is any indication, that statement is unnervingly close to the truth

I don't think this will be the last time I'll be seeing DUers campaigning against Democrats. Nor will it be the last time those same DUers blame the "party leadership" for the loss.

ironic that it seems the one thing this place can't weather is Democrats actually being in charge.

[jgraz]

55. You seem to be painting the party leaders as morons

When the Dems pander to the right, they lose elections. After 30 years of the same results, they still haven't figured it out.

[grahamhgreen]

59. We have the same crisis in most us companies.

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. The key to winning IS to be more like republicans.

Not on policy, but on tactics.

They articulate a simple set of principles, and market everything they want using that set of principles. Even when that requires outright lying.

You don't get to govern if you don't win.

[grahamhgreen]

57. Don't forget to REC!

[Blue-Jay]

60. Lesson: It's somehow Obama's fault.

[Orangepeel]

63. The lesson isn't to move. It is to do a better job of communicating where the party is.

I don't think people voted for Brown because of policy. He's a phony populist.

[Kaleva]

64. Running a bad campaign gives bad results.

[Overseas]

67. Democrats need to move back to the center, they went too far right to grovel for one tiny GOP vote.

Move back to the reality that the GOP destroyed our country and millions of voters crossed over to vote for President Obama because they knew we needed significant progressive compassionate change like HCR with a public option.

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. People who already have Romneycare already got theirs. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

73. Other: Stick to values, cease hunting for center, and do the people's business

***I grant that more or less means move "left"***

This is because any people centered or even responsible policy is now seen as commie fringe.

[Quantess]

75. Kicking for more votes

[TexasObserver]

76. Kicking for more votes