What the fuck? When did 41 votes put any party into the majority

[Beaverhausen]

Just hearing Rachel read Barney Frank and Jim Webb's statements.

Why did Bush who had a far smaller majority pass every goddamn thing he wanted.

honestly, what is going on???

[TicketyBoo]

1. As of this evening,

when Brown was elected.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. we can do what Bush did

but it looks like there is a lack of will

[Cleita]

3. Minority rule by imposing artificial restrictions on the majority.

Our electoral college is another example of minority rule, otherwise Bush would never have been President.

[Goblinmonger]

15. It's not minority rule

It's protecting the minority from a majority tyranny. It's not a bad thing in the big picture of politics. Really. It's just that the Dems didn't have the spine to actually do it when Bush was in office. That isn't a problem with the filibuster.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Goblinmonger]

21. I'm spouting right wing ideology, Cleita?

I'm saying exactly what we said on here when the Dems were in the minority in the Senate and what we wanted them to put a stop to what Bush was doing. Just because it is now the Republicans in the minority does not mean that the rule itself is bad. It IS about protecting the minority from the majority. There are ways around it but the Senate leadership apparently doesn't want to play tough.

[Cleita]

26. Yes, it's the right wingers who don't like majority rule because they are

always in the minority, so they like to impose rules to tip the balance of power. It's as old as the Romans.

[Goblinmonger]

29. I don't even know what that means.

And slow down on that strawman construction. When did I say I was against majority rule? I'm just saying that a rule like the filibuster in the Senate, which is supposed to be the deliberative, slow-things-down-non-reactionary body of the legislature is in place to make sure that the minority is not being run over roughshod. When is protecting the minority the stance of right wingers who apparently go back all the way to ancient Rome which used classical republicanism which would seem to ensure a pretty good understanding of the majority being in power.

[niyad]

34. sorry, it wasn't the electoral college--it was 5 republican-appointed supreme court judges

who abrogated the constitution and installed der chimpenfuhrer as president. it was a coup, plain and simple (would have said bloodless, but, alas, there were more than enough bloodletting from that murderous bunch of thugs, liars, thieves and cons.)

[Cleita]

41. If there had been no electoral college even the Supreme Court could not

have ignored the 500,000+ votes that Gore got in the popular vote even without Florida.

[TwixVoy]

4. What a remarkably short sited post

Are you aware the mid-terms are coming up in November? Are you aware we just lost a seat in of the strongest democratic states in the union? Can you not see the implications that has on the mid terms?

You are aware the entire house is up for election and 1/3rd of the senate, right?

[aquart]

8. All the Republicans had to do was obstruct and delay.

Oh, look.

[Beaverhausen]

10. Did you hear Frank and Webb's statements?

they are completely rolling over because of this.

edit to add: thread about Webb
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4232746

[treestar]

5. A party of no that votes as a block against every single thing

Every single House repuke votes against everything we want. Not a problem, because the House is not a mess like the Senate.

The filibuster rule was not meant to be abused as the Republicans are doing. But they have voted against every single thing, except for Snowe agreeing to the stimulus.

so we're just predicting the repukes will be their usual asshole selves and all 41 of them will vote no on every proposal.

Maybe we can pass what Snowe will agree to.

[Goblinmonger]

16. MAKE THEM FILIBUSTER

don't just roll over because they might. The Senate Dems need to grow a spine and act like the majority party. I'm not holding my breath given this history.

[unblock]

22. they already are filibustering everything in sight!

they filibustered al franken's confirmation, they've filibustered every obama appointment, they've filibustered the health care bills at every step of the way.

if you're looking for that particular hollywood favorite method of filibustering, the marathon phonebook reading session, well, that hasn't existed since 1975 when they changed senate rule xxii.

[Goblinmonger]

24. Leave the debated issue on the agenda indefinitely

Make them look like assholes for not allowing a yes or no vote. Don't just roll over and say OK. Why can't that be done?

[Codeine]

35. That won't make them look like assholes.

Not anymore than they do now.

[unblock]

36. yeah, plus they don't MIND looking like assholes.

hell, they seem to revel in looking like assholes.

[treestar]

28. I wish you'd quit with the spine stuff

Even the Republicans don't have a spine then. They didn't make the Dems do it either.

[Goblinmonger]

31. Yes they did.

Remember the "if you do that we will use the nuclear option and shut down the senate"? And then Reid said, "Oh, OK, then, guess we won't." That's how a far smaller Republican majority actually got things done in the senate while we somehow have fallen for the media line that it takes 60 to get anything done at all in the Senate. Reid wanted to keep the powder dry.

[treestar]

33. When was that?

Or what was it over?

I have a hard time thinking of these people as spineless. At the least they want to be re-elected. If they think the people they have to answer to don't want a thing, they're not going to do it.

Even so, what HCR bill could they get with 51, and then threaten the nuclear option over it?

[JVS]

6. 41 votes can do a lot where there is ideological unity!

[Bitwit1234]

7. The democrats didn't have the guts

to filibuster bush's bills. The republicans do and they will. That's going to be the difference. And now Liberman will surely join the republicans. AND since the Democrats don't need him any more they ought to kick his a** out as chairman of the committee he has.

[AlinPA]

9. I didn't check all the votes, but I'll venture to say it was because he got support

from the likes of Bayh, Landreiu, Lincoln, Nelson, Lieberman.

[Mz Pip]

11. Maybe, just maybe

this will force the Democrats to use the actual majority they have.

If the Democrats can't get HCR passed with Democratic president and 58 Senators and a Democratic controlled House, then we get what we deserve.

The Democrats need to learn from the Republicans and that is to come together as a party on the issues that matter. The Democrats refused to do that.

The Democrats still control the committees, the Presidency, the Senate, the House.

SO DO SOMETHING WITH IT and stop trhying to appease Olympia Snowe and Joe Lieberman.

[scubadude]

12. Can you count the Blue Dogs?

They are the fly in the ointment, the wrench in the gears, and there are enough of them to throw the Dems into a minority if they flipped to the "R" column.

Scuba

[Mz Pip]

19. Why are there no

Republican version of Blue Dogs? Even the alleged "liberal republicans" come together when it's important.

The Democrats don't seem to be able to muster that kind of loyalty within the party. They are all over the place and consequently can unite when it is really important to do so.

As jaded as this sounds I do believe we get what we deserve in a democracy. If people don't pay attention, they suffer for it. if people only vote their own interests, we all suffer for it. If people vote against a candidate because she dissed a baseball team, then they get what they deserve.

Our Founding Fathers stressed the importance of an informed electorate. I think we missed the boat on this one in MA and it will cost us dearly.

[scubadude]

23. They don't come together, they are driven together.

The Republicans run their party like an army. If you are not with us, you are against us. No wiggle room, and it works. They have guts. When the Dems start running candidates in the primaries against sitting Dems who misbehave then we might see some action.

Scuba

[treestar]

32. It's not a lack of courage

It is being a bigger tent and not walking in lockstep and tolerating dissent. That is what liberalism is. Tolerating the other guys' right to a different opinion.

[scubadude]

37. I agree, you can see that at work here on DU with the unrec feature.

The mass walking in lock step, making sure that other opinions get minimal attention for the smallest amount of time.

I rest my case.

Scuba

[MercutioATC]

13. Weakness is what's going on.

Apparently, Repubs have the stones to pass legislation with 51 votes. We're afraid to even try it with 56+. The Repubs might threaten, but how many bills have they actually filibustered? They get the job done. We're afraid of mere threats. Hell, we water down our bills in an effort to please the MINORITY party.

We've blown a big chance here. It's not unrecoverable, but it's going to be difficult. I just hope voters remember exactly who is really to blame...

[beardown]

14. The big tent has a lot of conservatives in it

The repub party now has mostly extreme radicals in national office. The dem party has a range from a few true progressives to repubs in dem clothing types. The common thread is that corporate money now controls who gets into national offices and very few of these reps can stray very far from their corporate sugar daddies.

While the repubs only had 40, they had several dem reps voting for the same interests with regards to national health care, etc. so they were probably closer to a functional veto proof majority than the dems were on any truly progressive legislation where the blue dogs and corporate hacks would abandon the roots of the dem party and vote against their constituents best interests.

[Kablooie]

18. Dems were scared to filibuster anything. GOP filibusters EVERYTHING!

[treestar]

30. I keep getting this "courage" meme

About the lack thereof. It's all over DU.

what would these dems be scared of other than not being reelected?

They are scared of the voters. These people do polling. I think the far left is not getting it. The voters are not with them. It's not a matter of lacking courage.

[The Stranger]

20. When you have Harry Reid as majority leader. That's when 41 votes puts the minority in power.

[NativeTexan]

25. EXACTLY.........

.........MY POINT!

[dflprincess]

27. When the majority would really prefer not to get anything done lest it upset their corporate masters

and they need someone to blame.

[Echo In Light]

38. Fascist empire. That's what's going on.

[ddeclue]

39. 41 Republicans + 15 Blue Dogs = a Republican Majority.

Do the math.

[Jennicut]

40. Yup. We never had much of a majority anyway. You don't use it, you lose it.