For the past year, the GOP has presented a united front... we Dems have been attacking our own Prez

[scheming daemons]

What the hell did you THINK independents would do?


By definition, most centrist independents are low-information voters. Like Thom Hartmann said today, they are the types that read the sports and comics in the paper but never read the editorial page.

But they do pick up on the atmospherics. One party is united in their opposition... the other party is divided, with half of them actively attacking their own President almost from the day he took the oath.

Many on the left let the perfect be the enemy of the good. They wanted ALL of their 8-years-worth of grievances addressed and solved on day one.

So... because changing something as large and intransigent as the US government takes a little time, the "impatient left" spent most of the past year tearing down the last best hope for this country - Barack Obama.


You all read the threads here.... thread after thread from the usual suspects tearing down Obama. Working hard to demoralize the rest of us.

Some of them were likely "plants" sent here to actively demoralize by pretending to attack from the left... but most were just misguided and impatient "puritans" who consider anything short of a 100% socialist utopia to be unacceptable.


So... we can all now choose to rally around the guy... because the barbarians truly ARE at the gate... or we can continue to form a circular firing squad and take down our own team while the enemy gains a foothold.


Have you all forgotten how much WORSE it was under Bush and the GOP? It wasn't that long ago.

You're not going to find yourself in 100% agreement with any President.

But if you find yourself in agreement with this President 51% or more of the time - quit shooting arrows at the guy.

He really *IS* our last best hope.

Because if the GOP, in its current form, ever gains the reins of power again - we're all doomed.




Yes... I'm a cheerleader. Because right now the mediocre Obama administration and the Dems in congress are 1000 times better than the outright destruction of our nation that the agenda of the GOP represents.

The only thing between us and the end of our republic is the deeply flawed, but infinitely better, Democratic party.


If you go third-party to prove a point and exhibit your political "purity", you're only helping the GOP borg get stronger.

[donheld]

1. The President deserted us

He campaigned non-stop about helping MAINSTREET. He got to the White House and did Wall-Street's bidding and did NOTHING for mainstreet.
Deny or ignore this fact to your and our peril.

[babylonsister]

4. He saved the damned economy or did you miss that little fact?

The stimulus and the TARP, love it or hate it, kept this and other countries afloat. You're denying and ignoring.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/24/the_invisible_achievement_98000.html

The Invisible Achievement
By E.J. Dionne

SYDNEY, Australia -- The hardest slogan to sell in politics is: "Things could have been a whole lot worse." No wonder President Obama is having trouble defending his stimulus plan.

If governments around the world, including our own, had not acted aggressively -- and had not spent piles of money -- a very bad economic situation would have become a cataclysm.

But because the cataclysm was avoided, this is an invisible achievement. Many whose bacon was saved, particularly in the banking and corporate sectors, do not want to admit how important the actions of government were. Anti-government ideologues try to pretend that no serious intervention was required.

So everyone goes back to complaining about high deficits and the shortcomings of government as if nothing had happened. This is now creating problems for Obama on health care.

One person who empathizes with our president is Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. He argues that if the governments of the world's biggest economies had not injected "$5 trillion plus into the real economy" in stimulus and had not taken other coordinated actions, we would have relived "the tawdry tale of the 1930s."

"In March of this year, the world was staring down the barrel of a Great Depression," Rudd said in an interview here last week. "This is a case study in bringing the world back from the brink, and it was American leadership from President Obama that was the key to that."

Rudd is Obama's political kinsman not only because they are philosophically in tune with each other, but also because the 51-year-old Australian's election victory in November 2007 foreshadowed Obama's own.

The leader of the center-left Labor Party, Rudd ousted one of George W. Bush's best friends, conservative Prime Minister John Howard, by riding the same theme of change and the same generational tide that carried in his American friend.

Yet if Rudd praises Obama, he also praises Bush for acting swiftly when the global economy began coming apart in the fall of 2008. As Rudd put it in a speech to the Australian-American Leadership Dialogue, Bush acted in dire circumstances, at a moment when "global financial flows ground to a virtual halt."

In fact, for all the flaws in the execution of the bank bailout program, Bush's willingness last fall to put the urgent need for massive action over his own ideological proclivities is likely to go down as the most enduringly constructive act of his presidency.

Rudd argues that in the last months of Bush's administration and the first months of Obama's, every economic indicator pointed to "catastrophe." He speaks of banks running out of money, developers whose credit was frozen and signs of panic among individual savers.

What prevented a repeat of the 1930s, he says, is that the world's governments actually learned from that era, particularly from "the deliberations on the Great Depression by John Maynard Keynes." The British economist stressed the imperative of government action at moments when the private economy falters.

If anything, Rudd has it easier than Obama. Australia's unemployment rate in July was 5.8 percent, compared with 9.4 percent in the United States. Technically, at least, Australia has so far avoided recession.

And Rudd's conservative predecessor, unlike Obama's, was fiscally responsible. Thus, Australian Treasurer Wayne Swan points out that even after his government's large stimulus spending, the country's budget deficit will peak at 4.9 percent of GDP in 2009-10. In 2009, Swan noted, the U.S. budget deficit will hit 13.6 percent of GDP.

Then there is the biggest difference in the national political situations: Australia already has a national health system. This means that Rudd has been able to concentrate on the economy and cap-and-trade legislation while Obama has found himself battling in the health care trenches.

But Swan has some words of encouragement for Obama. The fight for government-led universal health coverage in Australia during the 1970s and '80s, Swan said in an interview, was "every bit as tough as the debate in the United States." He added: "Thirty years on, we've got this system which, whatever its flaws, is one of the most effective in the world."

In other words, once it's in place, government-guaranteed universal health coverage becomes an unassailable social gain. Obama's chances of securing such a victory will improve if he can overcome reflexive anti-government propaganda that ignores how governments kept the world economy from falling off the cliff. In Rudd, he has a willing witness.

[Maru Kitteh]

7. Thank you!

[donheld]

24. Where are the JOBS?

[donheld]

23. Half way. Where are the JOBS!

You cannot save it for long with out JOBS. Got that it's JOBS. Sorry there's not enough jobs to go around under the bus.

[Luminous Animal]

26. He saved capital. The rest of can eat dirt for all that capital cares.

[donheld]

32. BabylonSister you are one I look to for help in these times but

how can you not see the Stimulus was far too small and rested far to much on Bush style Tax cuts for the rich?
This Health Care, why is there not more tax money being asked of the rich instead of Cadillac crap?
Why is he caving to the Ben Nelson, Mary Landreau and Joe Lieberman's of the world?
Why is his Economic team 90% Goldman Sachs?

Sorry that's not what he campaigned on.

[rpannier]

47. So both Bush and Obama did it

That's what the article says

[sendero]

58. LOL...

... the economy is not saved. Not even close. The banks are still insolvent, the deficit is OFF THE CHART, jobs are still nowhere and housing is about to begin another leg down.

Please don't repeat the basically right-wing nonsense that the initial 700 billion "saved" things and all that nonsense. It did NOT. It kicked the can down the road and made it a nastier and meaner can that still has to be dealt with.

[scheming daemons]

5. That's exaggerated bullshit

He's done PLENTY of good things. Just not 100% of what you wanted.

But you're buying the bullshit, so it will be hard to get through to you.


With Bush in charge, you got ZERO things that you wanted.

With Obama in charge, you got SOME of the things that you wanted.



Your desertion of the President will bring us back to where we were for 8 years.

[donheld]

25. I didn't desert I'm right were I was Nov 2008

Looking for JOBS. Looking for mainstreet help. Where is it?

[paulflorez]

38. Preventing Wallstreet from collapsing prevented the total destruction of Mainstreet

Companies realized they laid off too many people.
My partner was let go and got a new job within less than 2 months. It took me longer to find a new job back on 2007.
At his new job, half the employees were temps. They are now firing the temps and hiring full time employees.
One of the largest employers in my city is now hiring people again, after a huge layoff in 2008.
All the local signs, at least in my area, are pointing to jobs being created.
None of this would be possible if huge financial institutions were allowed to collapse. We would probably have depression-era unemployment right now.
Bleeding is stopped, now is time for job recovery.
This will all be screwed up if everyone keeps crying the sky is falling. If consumers clamp down on their wallets again or businesses get spooked, job recovery will be doomed.

The point isn't that the government is supposed to create jobs. The point is that the government is supposed to stabilize everything so that consumers feel comfortable spending and employers feel comfortable hiring, and then hand the recovery over to the private sector. I don't know how you can deny the progress that has been made in stabilizing our economy. I don't know how you can crow about jobs when you know trying to get people to raise red flags will only hurt job creation.

Next time you have a job interview, tell yourself that you're not good enough, that you're going to do terrible and that they're not going to hire you, and when you don't get that job don't blame it on the government.

[katandmoon]

12. +1

[Go2Peace]

50. I can't believe anyone is saying the GOP offered a "United Front". That's laughable.

So much denial we even have to make up history. The GOP is in dissarray. They *only* look united because they beat the shit out of our legislators. It is our legislators who are rogues and not "uniting". The "People" arguing had little to do with this election failure. Give me a freakin break. The effort was HUGE on the ground.

[treestar]

13. you friggin' baby

how unrealistic can you get?

[donheld]

36. Like I said

Ignore it at your peril

[flamingdem]

48. If you follow the stock market you know he didn't have much choice or knowledge to prevent meltdown

[babylonsister]

2. AMEN!

:thumbsup: :fistbump:

[notesdev]

3. you misspelled "being betrayed by"

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JoeyT]

8. Yeah. It's all the liberal's fault.

How dare they criticize ANY decision any Democratic politician makes.
We should be exactly like the Republicans, and that'll make things better.
No one can ever tell us exactly how that makes things better, since any political group that's immune to criticism tends to turn into...well...exactly what the Republicans are.

[treestar]

15. good for you

and the repukes will keep on winning and getting what they want.

[Go2Peace]

51. This isn't a doggone hillbilly feud. Maybe we should call this the "anti-republican" party??

This is about democracy, the middle class, and "real" traditional values. The GOP is about as weak as it has ever been, possibly it will ever be. As much as I hate the GOP this is not about a "war" on Republicanism. You cannot lead a country that way.

How in the world anyone can consider this loss the "Republican's fault" is beyone reason, it is flat out dillusional. This was *ours* to lose and it was not a problem of effort on the ground. This was about something bigger.

Maybe folks should stop trying to find "enemies" behind every bush and start getting smarter and more honest in their assesments. For some reason the Democratic Candidate and the Democratic Party did not resonate with people in MA. Instead of scapegoating and blaming some imaginary posters in cyberland take the hit, identify the issue, and working to change it would be the better answer.

[JoeyT]

62. Of course they will.

As long as we've got our own set of authoritarians with no moral compass, most people can't tell the parties apart.

[Hekate]

9. KnR for common sense -- all too uncommon here just now

[VMI Dem]

10. Chill the fuck out.

This whole thing is just chess. You're three moves behind.

[FrenchieCat]

11. I agree with you.....

and we sure have a lot of happy bold little trolls tonight, hey?
Sorta of like roaches on a hot day.

[treestar]

14. +1 million

If you could be rec'd to infinity I would do so!

:yourock:

[saracat]

16. Perhaps our leadership has been attacking us. They spoke against unions, took sides against choice

refuse to support GLBT rights.They also made a deal with Big Pharma, stood against the teachers and for privatizing public education, expanded the office of faith based initiatives and supported the Bush Era abuse of constitutional rights as well as increased troops in Afghanistan.Did some think no one would notice?


But we really don't have a choice .What we have got to do is insist that we return to being Democrats. We must support our base and our values. We must put people over politics.

[Silver Gaia]

17. Great post! Enthusiastic K & R!

[GaYellowDawg]

18. "Circular firing squad"

You want to use that as an analogy? Fine. We got in a circular formation for President Obama and took on all comers from all directions. Then, once he got elected, we started taking a few bullets in the back. Afghanistan? Bang, bang. Healthcare reform? Bang, bang, bang. Sooner or later, people will about face.

Barbarians at the gates? Democratic leaders have made it very clear to the barbarians that they're so scared that a teeeeeeny little push will topple the massive gates that they will pay all sorts of ransom. Single payer? Off the table. Public option? Naah, didn't really matter. Of course, the barbarians, encouraged by this, keep threatening to push the gates down. No wonder people feel that joining the guardsmen at the gate is pointless.

We and the nation gave the national Democratic Party one of the clearest messages in American history that change was wanted and needed, and it was squandered.

[spoony]

31. You turned that shit on its ear, nice job. nt

[rsmith6621]

19. BULL$hit

The Prez has appeared more like a what we did not vote for......And Obama aint listening to the base.

[Hello_Kitty]

20. Shorter Sheming Daemons: It can't be the DLC's fault, for they told me so.

Therefore, it's those dirty fucking hippies!

[Hello_Kitty]

21. BTW, how many progressives went 3rd party in the MA race? eom

[Lord Helmet]

22. That biting off your nose to spite your face thing has caught on here.

k 'n r

[Truth2Tell]

27. Sooner or later you will will realize

that there are a vast number of progressives and independents in this country who simply will not EVER accept the argument of your OP and support Dems out of sheer "party loyalty." You can make the most articulate argument ever devised and post it a thousand times. Sooner or later you will need to accept it as a fact of life that a big chunk of voters on the left will ONLY support the Democratic Party if the Democratic Party acts in their interests.

Once you come to terms with that fact of life, you will then be free to examine whether there may be things Democrats could do to keep those liberal votes so necessary to a winning coalition - other than railing against the dying of the light on message boards that is.

[Zenlitened]

70. Excellent post. - n/t

[spoony]

28. Yeah I hate how Brown ran those ads with DU threads in them

and all the Independents totally saw us fighting and decided to vote GOP. Oh, no, wait. That's fucking stupid.

[JVS]

41. It was on TV and everything. The voice-over guy was all like "JVS does not approve of the...

escalation of the Afghan war, but others at DU tell him to STFU and that Obama promised this escalation. Is this the kind of disunity you want to support? Vote Scott Brown so that someone from their party that most of them probably are unaware of loses Ted Kennedy's seat!"

[Luminous Animal]

29. Democrats have been showing a united front. They want universal health care.

Democratic politicians ignore that united front.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. "Not as bad" makes a piss-poor campaign slogan.

[anonymous171]

33. If Obama as he is now is our "best hope" then we are fucked.

Compromisers make shitty presidents.

[Political Heretic]

34. The blame for disunity rests on our leaders and their ridculous corporatist capitulating direction

Not the people, committed to economic and social justice.

Your threats of "you only help the GOP get stronger" are completely idle. Though I'm not going to a third-party, but I am going to continue being a critic of this total perversion of the Democratic Party.

They are idle threats because we know where we're going and we're not afraid of a fight. In fact, I think we're the only ones showing any courage right now.

We know that confronting the filth that is ruining the Democratic Party will be hard, we know that it will mean some dark days, even possibly some days when republicans slip into power due to the nature of this confrontation for the party's heart and soul. We know this, and we wince at the thought.

But so fucking be it. Why? Because that status quo of politics is simply unacceptable. We can't live with it anymore. The back and forth back and forth ping-ponging between two corporate controlled parties is more than we can take. Democrats are different than Republicans, sure. But they are only different within the narrow confines of the political and economic rules laid out by those with the money and influence. So Democrats want to upgrade the window dressings on the sinking ship while republicans want to leave the window dressings the way they are, or they want to eliminate the window dressings entirely.

The ship is still sinking. We have critical, large-scale structural failures at the heart of our political and economic system, and they are slowly killing the country as every year we inch closer and closer to total economic collapse.

Either the Democratic Party wakes the fuck up and finds the courage from somewhere to challenge these structural failings head on, or there's no hope. The only want to do that is to fight through the painful times created by taking a stand, by driving corporate capitulation out of government and out of the party.

No one ever said it was going to be easy or pain free. We're all going to have to get ready for dark days, and yes, some republicans may slip into power amidst the vacuum created by cleaning our own house.

But its the only serious hope there is. The political status quo is FAILING. We must demand better from the democratic party, or we must find those who will give us better if the Democratic party refuses to do so.

Of course that's going to mean that some republicans may benefit from the turmoil. You stating the obvious to us is not scary.

Because guess what, we have the COURAGE to fight through that, and press onward to a better place. A place where our politicians are not so detached from our people, and where we can have honest conversations and ACTION about our structural problems.

We can start with the disentanglement of money from politics, publicly funded elections... something we'll never even talk about unless we have this battle for the soul of the Democratic Party right now.

You're predictions don't scare me. We will fight through those dark days and onward to something better.

[scheming daemons]

35. If the GOP, as currently constituted, regains power.....

....they aren't letting go of it for a while.


You state that doesn't scare you.



Well then... the end of our republic doesn't scare you.

[Political Heretic]

37. The end of our republic DOESN'T scare me.

This "republic" has become system of structural injustice built on structural injustice perpetuated by two political parties that - as of now at least - refuse to challenge the structural failings of the system itself, but would instead rather re-arrange the deck chairs... with one party perfering them one way and the other party prefering them another way.

If no one find the political courage to start addressing this CORE problems, then the system will collapse as well it should... and we can be about the business of putting something better in its place.

I would PREFER that the Democratic Party wake up, and see how wrong it has been and reconstitute itself as a honest to god working class party that is willing to address these structural failures and prioritizes the needs of working families ahead of the wants and whims of the financial elite.

But if not, then out of the ashes the people WILL build something else.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

43. +1

[flamingdem]

49. That's crap, SURVIVAL against the psychotic REPUBLICANS is the issue nt

[Go2Peace]

52. Republicans are only a SYMPTOM of the disease. Put on the 3D glasses.

Fight them without fighting the disease and it will just come back with another manifistation. Corporatism and selfism don't care if they wear an "R" or a "D". They will as easily assimilate the Democratic party which is what they are attempting.

I have to wonder how old some folks on this board are. They seem to only understand the last 8 years and are stuck in the "fight Bush" mode. Bush only took advantage of the structure that was created for him. The path is layed and we are hardening the asphalt even now.

[Political Heretic]

54. I don't WANT to just survive.

[booley]

39. As I recall, the GOP was so united it walked off a cliff in 2006

The Iraq war, the Medicare donut hole, the tax cuts and massive borrowing, ect ect ect..

I am hard pressed to think of any idea too horrible or stupid that the GOP as a collective whole would not get behind.

Maybe if that had not been the case, they wouldn't have lost.

Being united even as one thinks one is walking off a cliff.. isn't that group think?

Perhaps instead of insisting on forced unity for the sake of unity, the Democratic leadership should get good plans that we can unite behind.

[cherokeeprogressive]

40. Stop ascribing importance to DU that doesn't exist.

You act like the average voter in Mass. reads DU and decides how to vote based on what they read here. In fact, LOTS of DU'ers feel the same way, and act like this is the most important political website on the planet. It ain't, with apologies to Skinner and his cohorts.

"You all read the threads here.... thread after thread from the usual suspects tearing down Obama. Working hard to demoralize the rest of us."

Stop that. Step awayyyyy from the computer. Recognize the fact that Obama supporters make up 99.9% of the posters at DU. Recognize the fact that it's possible to be squarely in someone's corner, and disappointed in their performance at the same time.

What do you make of the fact that the BEST President Obama could do for Martha Coakley was to show up in Mass. for the FIRST time in support of her candidacy TWO DAYS before the election?

Would you say that President Obama failed to "honor Teddy's legacy?"

[Political Heretic]

44. Well said.

[gleaner]

42. Will you please get off this?

The Republicans have been infighting like a bunch of dogs and criticizing a bad president doesn't cost elections. It is the actions of the president and his polices which cost elections. If someone doesn't begin to understand the reality of that and stop enabling Obama to be a bad president, then this will continue to to happen, and you will still be fantasizing that it is all the fault of the victims rather than the victimizer. And yes we are victims. We were lied to, used, betrayed and blown off. Unfortunately for people who think like Obama it made many voters as mad as hell.

I personally don't want to hear any more excuses. I don't need to wait and see. I have seen, and I don't like it. What we need is accountability and a strong, steady policy that doesn't favor Republicans and their war criminal former leaders.

[donco6]

60. +1

[readmoreoften]

45. United Front around WHAT? The Republicans unite around homophobia and populist rage.

What is there for center-right Democrats and progressives/leftists to unite on? On hating Republicans, that's about it.

[JDPriestly]

46. Look, There is a minimum that we on theso-called "left" are entitled to expect

We worked very hard to get Obama elected. He has snubbed us. He snubbed the American people. He promised to clean up D.C. and he has just continued more of the same payoff game. He needs to fire a bunch of his staff and take charge and clean up in D.C. He should have fired corrupt U.S. attorneys a long time ago. Corruption should be fought at all levels. That means shutting down Wall Street's dominance on the Obama economic team. That will not do.

Obama doesn't have to appoint them to official positions in his government, but he needs to at least watch Dylan Ratigan and Elliot Spitzer on YouTube videos of their TV appearances. He would learn a lot about how bright people in this country view his economic performance. And he should listen to Dean on health care.

Dean is "liberal" but he is a fiscal conservative. That is why he wants a public option. Without a public option, there is no realistic way to control the rise in health care costs. The Senate bill will encourage insurance companies to increase costs. That is why Americans are so mad. I was willing to compromise by supporting the House bill even though it was not what I really wanted.

Obama promised to fund Social Security by raising the point in terms of income at which the payment of Social Security and Medicare taxes is not required -- raising the cap I think he called it. The House bill was to be funded by taxing the super-rich. Obama has not had the courage to follow through on those stands which I think were his tax policies when he campaigned. (Correct me if you have evidence to the contrary, but that is the way I remember it.)

So we are entitled to expect these minimal steps on Obama's part.

Dylan Ratigan and Elliot Spitzer discussed today the conduct that is so enraging American seniors -- responsible American seniors. And Dean has clearly explained why we need the public option for months and months now.

[juajen]

53. Come on! What the Hell do you think democracy is? NT

[PVnRT]

55. But I thought DU didn't reflect reality

I thought that nearly all Democrats and liberals in the "real world" supported the President, and it was only a few disgruntled malcontent fringe leftists making noise on DU.

But, hey, I know it's easier to blame critics than analyze what went wrong in Massachusetts.

[Ganja Ninja]

56. "exhibit your political "purity", you're only helping the GOP borg get stronger."

Purity is exactly what the party needs. We have been totally ineffective because of our big tent. The health care bill being a prime example. The liberal majority of the Democratic party is being dictated to by a minority of center right politicians. We don't have a 60 or 59 vote majority in the Senate, we only think we do. The public has turned against the party after only one year and the reason is the lack of unification in our big tent. You're not going to unify the party by telling the majority to get in line behind the minority and support something they didn't vote for.

[pecwae]

57. Good lord.

A dose of reality that everyone's world does not revolve around DU might help you.

[ShortnFiery]

59. That's because our President has only stood up, in actions, for Wall Street and The Pentagon.

Pretty words don't mean squat when you're out of a job and/or on your FIFTH rotation to the Middle East.

Obama's actions reflect a man who has difficulty in resolving conflicts and who, oftentimes, AVOIDS CONFLICT.

I see NO LEADERSHIP with regard to President Obama's actions within the past year.

NO! Give us ACTION Mr. President, not more "pretty speeches." :grr: :thumbsdown:

[Bobbie Jo]

61. K&R

[asdjrocky]

63. Maybe he should try acting like a Democrat.

[ddeclue]

64. Too bad they don't let us see the negative rec number

<0 hardly does justice to this crap..

-999 would be more like it.

UNREC.

[leeroysphitz]

65. I wish I could still unrec this thread. n/t

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

67. That's a good way of misrepresenting the situation.

[bridgit]

68. It wasn't but a heart beat after Obama took office and Dems, at least as represented here...

at DU: began to splinter, and I cannot speak for others but it was and remains painful for me to observe but splinter we did into a cacophonous finger pointing mean-spirited bouillabaisse of un-stitch-able single issue remnants with little gumption to coalesce for any sense of a greater good - yeah-yeah-yeah it's Obama's fault,

But it's our fault too

[bigwillq]

69. You mean like "We" on a message board.

Please. DU is not reality. I don't know any DEM in real life that acts the way some (good and bad) do here. I know some who are critical, but not to the extreme here. And I know some who are ultra-passionate, but not to the extreme here. The current political environment is not DUs fault nor is it the fault of the ultra critical or the ultra passionate here or in real-life.

The DEMs in charge are the ones to blame, not a message board. Those DEMs care more about the interest of themselves and the corporations instead of the people who put them into office. The DEMS already in charge, and the party heads, need to get their act together. Right now, they seem to be a mess.