The Insurnace Reform Bill needs to be killed. Consider the principle of "Do no Harm"

[Political Heretic]

This bill needs to die, because I believe it will actively make things worse for low income and working class families in the long run, not better, not even marginally better.

It's not good. It's not even marginally good. It's not even a foundation we could build on later. It's a clusterfuck, a "disaster" as Rep. Pete Defazio put it, that will do more to raise costs and reduce quality of care for the very people that need health care reform the most!

It's heartbreaking to me that people who desperately need health care won't have their needs met, but sadly this bill will not effectively meet their needs either, not in the long run. Insufficient subsidies, the failure to responsibly limit out of pocket expenses, massive loopholes and omissions in regulation and oversight of insurers and on and on and on make this bill literally a negative for working families...

When considering legislation, we need to adopt the DO NO HARM principle. This bill harm, okay? It HARMS. It makes the health care situation in this country worse, not better. It doesn't serve as a foundation on which to build. It's not a good starting point. It does damage to the long term goal of quality, universally accessible health care for everyone. And I believe it will hurt low income and working class families in the long run.

Thus it needs to die, not matter how sad that is.

[FrenchieCat]

1. How many times are you going to fucking say this?

I disagree with you,
but I don't go into all of the threads saying
Pass Health Care Reform or Die.

I'm sick of this.
I need a doctor...
and thanks to people like you
millions of others won't be able to get one either....
and soon enough, we'll have a Republican Congress,
and a Republican President, and there won't be any Net Neutrality,
and when you speak then, nobody will fucking be able to hear you...
and even as fucked up as things will be,
that is one thing I'll be glad of; that I don't have to hear you
whining like the world is almost over on the issue of this Health care bill.
Like the insurance you currently have? Then fucking keep it.

[Political Heretic]

6. As many times as I fucking feel like.

:shrug:

It's only pissing you off because I'm right and the whole damn COUNTRY knows it.

It's not MY fault that Democrats screwed this up completely. Go take your rage to someone who cares, preferably to the Party that dropped the fucking ball.

[Javaman]

23. Keep saying it. It needs to be said everyday until people get a clue.

cheers! :)

[defendandprotect]

2. Great point . . . "Above all do no harm" -- !!

[TheWraith]

3. Well, you're completely wrong. nt

[JVS]

4. You're about to get a lot of "pragmatists" insisting that we die on this hill.

[Schema Thing]

5. It doesn't make things worse for low income or working families

That's just an assertion with no facts to back it up on your part.

The bill would help this working family immensely, and millions like me. If you know otherwise, show reasons for your assertions.

[Political Heretic]

7. Sure, I'd be happy to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7493989&mesg_id=7501672

[Political Heretic]

8. And an addition: "CBPP: Subsidies...Inadequate for Low-Income Housholds"

Subsidies in Senate Health Bill Would Be Inadequate for Many Low- and Moderate-Income Households, Need Improvement in Conference
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3045

Punting the Senate Bill to the House to vote on as is is unacceptable.

[Schema Thing]

11. ah, but what I have now is "adequate"?

thanks for that.

[Political Heretic]

12. It doesn't matter either way. If you can't afford to access care, you can't afford to access care.

You can't afford it now, you can't afford it without adequate cost coverage.

It doesn't matter if the gap is 5 bazillion dollars or 5 thousand dollars to my poor family.

By the way, the time that it took you to respond, I know you didn't bother to read any of the information I provided about the harms of this bill... :(

[Political Heretic]

24. kick

[Faryn Balyncd]

9. That's the core of the matter.....K and R, Heretic.

:hi:




:kick:

[treestar]

10. There are about 30 million who disagree

There is not backup for your opinion. It's just an opinion.

[Political Heretic]

14. Actually, there's plenty of backup to my opinion, and 30 million don't disagree.

Contrary to the claim of upper middle class elitists who love to speak for the poor when they can use them as a political football, but rarely have any idea what they are talking about.... I can speak to you as a poor uninsured person.

30 million of us poor folk don't want a bill that actively does more to harm us than help us in the long run.

Even though it makes a great talking point for politicians to say "wooo we covered 30million people" WE are the ones that have to live with that coverage.

And guess what pal, "coverage" doesn't mean anything if you can't afford to use it.

Inadequate subsidies for coverage mean that I STILL can't fucking afford insurance. Inadequate controls over out of pocket expenses on insurance Co-pays mean that JUST LIKE WHEN I HAD NO INSURANCE, I'll still go to bed every night praying to god that I never get really sick.... because the cost of care would bankrupt me (AGAIN) or put me on the street.

It does not MATTER if I have so-called coverage, if I can't count on it when I need it. I can go to a clinic right now for a free doctors visit, and even fill prescriptions. What I can't get is any sort of long term or serious extended care for a critical emergency, or for a severe illness or long term disease. I can't get care to cover that now and I can't afford care to cover that under this bill.

Get it?

STOP USING POOR PEOPLE AS YOUR POLITICAL TOOL AND TALKING POINT. Constantly screaming "30 million people will be covered" only exposes how out of touch you really are.

Mere "coverage" WAS NOT THE END OF THE DAMN PROBLEM. It's not even the BEGINNING of the damn problem. Access to quality care is the problem, and its what we were promised by this party.

[ibegurpard]

18. .

:thumbsup:

[wisteria]

13. So, did you vote against the Democrat in Mass. yesterday? n/t

[Political Heretic]

15. I don't live in Mass.

And I don't answer to you.

[scheming daemons]

16. It does far more good than harm

Perfect bill? hardly.



But me and Bernie Sanders agree... on balance, the bill does some good.

[Political Heretic]

17. I and the National Nurses United - largest nurses union in the nation - disagree.

As long as we're appealing to so-called authorities, I'll take a bunch of nurses over a politician.

[Political Heretic]

19. kick.

[ShortnFiery]

20. KnR

:thumbsup:

[golddigger]

21. K&R

[invictus]

22. K&R