Why the entire Democratic Agenda died last night

[WeDidIt]

Because the Democratic Leadership in the Senate is too weak to force Republicans to do actual filibusters.

Reid sets the agenda.

If there is a cloture vote that doesn't pass, he votes against cloture, then sets the agenda that debate continues until a cloture vote actually passes. Do not allow ANYTHING ELSE on the agenda until a cloture vote passes.

But that takes guts, spine, and nerves of steel.

It'll never happen.

[tekisui]

1. That is the problem with the Democratic Party. They are timid

and afraid to stand up for what they believe. It is a disease from top to bottom. Dems are weak. They are unable or unwilling to show backbone and fight for us.

[ShortnFiery]

3. They are not so much "timid" as that of being "paid off" and not wanting to upset the "corporations"

WHO give them the big bucks.

Timid? Hell no! They know that most of them can transition seamlessly into a cushy lobbyist position.

It's all "a game" to them.

[Ganja Ninja]

7. Exactly! They're able to face down their base with nerves of steel.

[alsame]

5. I think it's even deeper than that. IMO, the conservative Dems try

to walk a tightrope - serving their corporate masters while pretending to be for the people. And when that conflict is exposed, it gets very ugly.

[dkf]

8. Conservative Dems are in lockstep with the repubs. They vote for repub legislation and

Corrupt ours to look like typical bought and paid for repub bills. We can't get good laws passed if we keep catering to these aholes.

[lonestarnot]

11. So which party really holds the majority.

:think:

[dkf]

16. The senate isn't ruled by the majority it's ruled by the minority.

Repubs have limited the minority in their party so that when the pendulum swings in their direction they take full advantage. When it swings our way we've got too many dinos to get our agenda through.

[lonestarnot]

20. Advantage cockroaches.

[dkf]

29. Probably so.

[peace frog]

27. The party of "What's In It For Me"

"Me" being the politician in question. Republican or Democrat, makes no difference.

[lonestarnot]

28. When cockroaches overrun places, they die and leave behind allergens and eventually eat one another.

[dkf]

30. The Landrieu Nelson and Lieberman deals helped sink the Senate bill.

Everyone was complaining about Nebraska. Even Nebraskans

[alsame]

21. Yep. And that's why a real Democratic agenda never gets

passed. As long as we are counting on the DINOs, nothing good is going to pass.

[peacetalksforall]

23. The word I use for the DLC is milquetoast. Now, however, all Dems are milquetoast and

the DLC are vultures - now is their hour. We only have a few honorable Dems. And we lost one of them last summer.

Who is leading whom? Reid and Pelosi are definitely DLC. So I'm not so sure we should call either of them weak.

The health care industry is staying rich for awhile.

[CBGLuthier]

2. defeatism 101

Want a little cheese to go with your whine?

[dkf]

6. Republicans get their shit done. We don't.

[Leopolds Ghost]

4. Perhaps Reid's lame duck status will allow him to be stripped of leadership

Like he should have been ages ago, thanks to the Iraq war and FISA.

[DCBob]

9. you cant force a real filibuster anymore... the rules were changed years ago..

I suspect to avoid the spectacle and waste of time.

[DisgustedInMN]

10. Guess what Bob...

.. the fucking "rules" can be changed again.

Fucking Surrender Monkeys make me want to :puke:

[DCBob]

13. Guess what... you probably need 60 votes to change that rule back...

Reality sucks doesn't it.

[DisgustedInMN]

33. Wrong.

Period.

[Igel]

34. More, I think. n/t

[OnionPatch]

22. That name has been sticking in my head lately.

I guess the Democrats really are surrender monkeys. :(

[DisgustedInMN]

32. That would be the DLC ..

... wing of the Party. You can tell them by he way they point at everyone else to explain THEIR fuckups and miscalculations.

[OnionPatch]

40. Unbelievable that they would act like a minority with 59 votes.

Did we wake up in some other universe? 51 votes were enough for the GOP to destroy the country.

[WeDidIt]

12. Sure you can

I described how in my OP.

After the cloture vote fails, you put debate on the issue back on the agenda and allow nothing else.

But that takes guts, spine, and nerves of steel.

[DCBob]

15. I thought you were talking about "filibustering" .. you cant force it anymore.

You know like reading a cookbook for 3 days to hold up a vote. That rule was changed so all the minority has to do is threaten it and bingo! 60 votes needed.

[WeDidIt]

17. You're confusing spinelessness with actual rules.

:eyes:

[DCBob]

18. You brought up "filibustering" in your post... just setting the record straight..

for those who might be confused.

[last1standing]

14. If the Democrats refuse to lead then they do not deserve the leadership.

Its amazing that only three years into their majorities in the house and senate, the Democrats have already sunk back into their craven, seat-securing ways. We need people who will listen to the People then show us how to get to where we need to go, not this depraved kabuki dance with the monied interests we're seeing today.

Lead on or get out of the way!

[Echo In Light]

19. In$titutional Collusion, *not* cowardice

[ShortnFiery]

24. ...

spot on! :thumbsdown:

[NorthCarolina]

25. Reid takes his marching orders from the DLC. Remember Rahm telling Reid...

"Give Lieberman what he wants"? Do not confuse "gutless against the GOP" with a purposeful "right leaning DLC agenda" that coincides with GOP ideals. The Democrats aren't spineless in dealing with the GOP, rather the DLC Leadership (or "New Dems" as some of them like to be called now) is in control, and their politics mirrors that of the GOP. What appears as a general weakness, is really two conservative political parties with shared goals. If you want the Democratic Party to come back, the only option is to weed DLC and Blue Dogs from the party, and replace them with Liberal/Progressive Democrats (formerly known as Traditional Democrats).

[mdmc]

26. it will happen

the GOP will just need to take over again. they rock at the power thing..

[Odin2005]

31. We don't have a majority, the Blue Dogs are Republicans posing as Dems.

The corporatists control Congress.

[Igel]

35. Filibusters are time consuming.

When time's consumed non-productively, it doesn't hurt those out of power. They've been decreed "non-productive" unless there's significant bipartisan cooperation--then you don't often have to worry about filibusters; lack of cooperation makes them more and more relegated to being obstructionist or meaningless.

When time's consumed non-productively it hurts those in power. Instead of having committee meetings, instead of debating amendments and even passing resolutions, everybody has to be on call for cloture votes because the House or Senate is in session. All work that isn't done behind closed doors by the movers and shakers or done by aides stops because at some point there could be a cloture vote when there are more repubs in the room than dems, and they force voting to start on the bill--which then fails, with a quorum, because 12 dems weren't present but busy with other things too far away to get to the floor to vote.

Then there's the PR. Whoever leads the PR narrative wins. The thing is, Lakoff aside, those who wrote the book on framing decades before he rediscovered an idea that had never been forgotten know that good PR depends more on more than just a good PR campaign. Are the filibusteros the evil obstructionists or are they holding up the elites in power? Are they thwarting the will of the people or speaking truth to power? Sometimes it goes one way, sometimes it goes the other way. Reid doesn't gamble.

I can empathize with Reid. Don't think I like him, but I can certainly appreciate that he has some serious things to think about--and, unlike some, what he says matters.

[tonysam]

36. Stop blaming Reid for Obama's screw ups

Obama deserves to take the blame for last night's debacle because he is NOT focusing on jobs and job creation, the ONLY things that really matter in this country to the vast majority of voters. Instead, he wasted tons of political capital on health care reform, which was never going to happen.

Democrats are going to be slaughtered in November if they don't focus on things that matter to people. The GOP will exploit this, all the while not doing one damned thing to stop the bleeding of this economy.

[TexasObserver]

37. Did not! Did not! Did not!

If Harry Reid doesn't get off his ass and BE a real majority leader, the entire Democratic agenda for 2010 and beyond is in peril.

Either he grows a backbone or we get a new leader in the senate. Those are the only two acceptable choices. It's hammer time. Time to hammer the GOP into ground and send good bills to the president. No more of this "but they have 41 votes."

[tonysam]

38. Quit blaming Reid. This is Obama's mess, not Reid's.

Many if not most people don't even know who Harry Reid is, but they know Obama isn't doing jack shit about the economy--the ONLY issue that matters to the American people, especially job creation.

There is no point trying to blame somebody else when it is OBAMA who needs to get his shit together.

[TexasObserver]

39. This is a mess that belongs to the president and Harry Reid.

You're free to assess blame as you wish, but I'm free to consider your opinion wrong.