The Senate has lost. The House has the power now. House can force Reconciliation and a Public Option

[jsamuel]

Now that the Senate has 59 votes, reconciliation is the only way many things will get done. The only way that HCR can now get passed is if the House votes for the Senate bill without any changes. The House will not do that, according to people like Weiner, without some things getting changed via reconciliation in the Senate. The House can make a deal with the Senate to pass the HCR bill if the Senate simultaneously passes a Public Option/Medicare Buy-In through reconciliation. The Public Option is not dead. Brown may have just caused it to succeed.

[thereismore]

1. Forget the public option. Too complicated. People don't get it. We need Medicare for all. nt

[jsamuel]

3. fine force what you can out of the Senate with 50 votes + Biden

if that means Medicare for all, great

[ShortnFiery]

2. If Pelosi didn't have the courage to Impeach the MOST Criminal Executive Branch in the

entire history of this Nation, what should give us *HOPE* that she has the intestinal fortitude to push through POPULIST Health Care Bill?

[jsamuel]

4. she already did in the House

the House bill has a public option

[kirby]

7. The House Bill had a public option in name only...

It was a small token gesture to appease the progressives. The Congressional Budget Office said that only 6 million people were going to be eligible/allowed to participate in that so called public option. Only 3 million in the short lived Senate version.

[BanzaiBonnie]

5. It may end up getting us closer to what we want

rather than what looked like a hodge podge mess that was primarily a heyday for the insurance companies.

[slackmaster]

6. I think some of us have lost our focus on the job of Congress

Ultimately it's to do the will of the people.

The problem with the current HCR bill is the same problem a lot of big ideas that come out of "progressive" governments. Here's an abstract of the process:

1. Solicit ideas from members.

2. Sort and prioritize them, retaining what seem to be the best ones.

3. Cram them all into one big package that seems cohesive but nobody has time to read and nobody fully understands.

4. Throw out whatever concessions and compromises are needed to appease special interests so as to get enough votes to make it pass.

5. Conservatives, who have been doing little up to now, point out the flaws in the result and foment erosion of public support.

6. Rinse.

7. Repeat.

At this point, cramming what's left of the original ideas down the public's throat through reconciliation is only going to result in more losses in 2012.

Stick a fork in it.

[elocs]

8. I highly doubt that there will be reconciliation. That would mean starting all over.

How many here actually understand what reconciliation really is or have even tried to learn?

This was from last summer concerning reconciliation, but it still applies:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7480650

Reconciliation is not a slam-dunk panacea for HCR and the public option is dead because reconciliation won't help that. It's time to stop living in fantasyland.

[murray hill farm]

9. Then...

a new bill to expand medicare for all and nit pic the rest later to get what this country needs....and get it done! The numbers will support it financially and it can be passed with reconciliation.

[jsamuel]

11. if medicare for all has the votes, I am all for it

it doesn't seem to me that it does at this point

[jsamuel]

10. did you read my post?

I said the House would pass the Senate version of HCR and also do reconciliation to pass other things the House wants. This has been brought up by people in the House. You may want to re-read my post. That means there will be no "starting over."

[elocs]

12. Do you know how by many votes the House passed the previous bill? 5

Yes, 5 and 2 of them are no longer there. Still think this is a slam dunk? Still think that Congress will magically conjure up a public option? I don't think so.

Plus, you cannot just simply do reconciliation on whatever you feel like doing it. You were aware of that, weren't you?

[jsamuel]

13. No magic.

Just votes. House members have said similar things. Pelosi mentioned the possibility herself of using reconciliation to get what the House wants to pass the Senate bill in the House last night.

So are you saying that the House does not have the votes to pass the Senate bill without a public option? Or are you suggesting that there are not enough votes for a public option in the Senate to pass it via reconciliation (funding)?

[elocs]

14. The two bills either have to be the same or reconciled. There must be 1 bill,

not 1 from the Senate without a public option and 1 from the House with it. Are you really sure you know what this is about?

[jsamuel]

15. you really aren't getting this, are you?

I am talking about passing two separate bills. The house can pass HCR by voting for the Senate bill (it would not need another vote in the Senate). The Senate and the House can work on another bill via reconciliation where they can put what the House wants into it. This isn't that complicated.

BTW, they are going to need to do a second bill for other government funding measures anyway, so it isn't unusual to do this.

[elocs]

19. You are the one who keeps going on about a public option, the Senate bill doesn't have one.

None. Exactly how do you think Congress is going to get any other bill through the Senate without 60 votes for cloture, much less one that improves upon the present Senate bill?

Frankly I don't really believe you know what you are talking about, or you have a tenuous grasp of reality.

[jsamuel]

20. Well, I don't think I can explain this any way for you to get it.

Oh well. Others seem to understand, so I guess I will just move on.

[kirby]

24. I think you are confusing two things...

You are confusing two uses of the word 'reconciliation'.

One definition has to to with reconciling the differences of the Senate/House bill until there is agreement.
The other definition has to do with using the Budget Reconciliation process to pass a bill with only 51 votes.

[jsamuel]

25. Reconciliation refers to budget reconciliation.

You are confusing reconciliation with the word "conference". That is what it is called when the house and the senate meet to work out their differences (conference).

[kirby]

28. No I am not...

Yes, when the two chambers of Congress meet to resolve differences to a bill, there is a conference committee. However, the purpose of the committee is to reconcile the differences between two bills. This is not a term I make up, but the actual proper term used within Congress. That is why it is common for people to be confused about the two different meanings of reconciliation when they are discussing these issues. Budget Reconciliation traces its root to the same committee conference process, however, it is relegated to the finance related committees and is subject to various points of order that the result of the conference committee relate to the Budgeting process.

[jsamuel]

30. sure, but that is called a conference committee not "Reconciliation"

that term is used to define a budgetary process. Sure people 'reconcile' differences in a conference committee, but that is not its name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_%28United_States_Congress%29

[Maru Kitteh]

27. "It's time to stop living in fantasyland" Man - are you in the wrong place.

Dontcha know the only reason Teddy's dream is on it's way to the water treatment facility right now aw we speak is because Universal free single-payer healthcare would have had like - a gazillion votes in the house AND the senate - but the EVIL Democratic party forbade any kind of progress at all! Because progress is a BINARY PROCESS dontcha know.

[jsamuel]

29. too bad

people don't bother to read the op where I say the opposite of the criticisms in the post

[stevietheman]

16. The House can just pass the Senate bill and send it to the President.

Then, they can pursue fix-it legislation that can be passed using reconciliation in the Senate.

[jsamuel]

17. exactly

or do it simultaneously with a better guarantee that their issues are being addressed.

[stevietheman]

18. Something like that. At any rate, it would have to involve a deal that pretty much guarantees...

that the fixes get done.

[jsamuel]

21. yeah

they could put in an expansion of medicare pretty easily I think

[Spazito]

26. Yep, I hope that is what they do now....

it certainly makes sense and the repubs can choke on it.

[Helga Scow Stern]

22. Hey jsamuel! Excellent post.

I remember you from 2004 and 2005, like when we spent New Year's Eve faxing every Senator a 25 page report that questioned the validity of the election results.

[jsamuel]

23. heh

yeah, 2004 was when I really got into blogging

:hi:

People did end up going to jail in Ohio over that recount.

[jpak]

31. How can the Senate pass a reconciliation bill if Brown and Holy Joe and Ben oppose it?

The can't

this is delusion

sorry

[jsamuel]

32. Because, by definition, Reconciliation only needs 50+1 votes.

Not delusion, but the presence of understanding of the process.

Don't need Nelson, Lieberman, Brown, Lincoln,.......

[jpak]

34. Sorry - you're wrong, you need 60 - that is why Scott Brown's election is so horrible

I truely wish 51 votes is all it would take to pass the bill - but now we need 1 GOP vote to pass a reconciiation bill.

and we won't get from Scott Brown

sorry

NOHRC4U

it's dead

[jsamuel]

36. I didn't know so many people don't know what Reconciliation is.

I am not talking about the conference process. Reconciliation is a process for passing budgets in the Senate and only requires 50+1 votes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_%28United_States_Congress%29

This of course is in tandem with the House passing the Senate HCR bill as is and sending it to Obama. (no need for the senate to vote on it again)

[jpak]

38. Good luck with that!

n/t

[jsamuel]

39. thanks! it is being talked about by House members right now!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/1/20/827478/-Can-health-insurance-reform-still-pass

[rucky]

33. Well, since you put it that way...

:applause:

[uponit7771]

35. rec, how could this be done by Harry "....I don't work for him...." Reid? TIA

[jsamuel]

37. I don't think Reid would be opposed to it if the House passes the Senate bill too.