Homeless people fined, Jailed, for SLEEPING in Boulder, CO

[bobbolink]

http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news/ci_14225469?source=rss

Criminalizing homelessness is such a brilliant idea.

I don't even know what to say anymore.... this is close to home....

Will anyone ever care what is happening to those of us you consider beneath you?

[JuniperLea]

1. So, when they can't pay the fine, will they be jailed?

This is ridiculous. Homelessness is so prevalent today... but you're right... too many consider the homeless beneath themselves. And they won't care until it happens to them. And it very well could. Easily. TOO EASILY!

:hug:

[bobbolink]

7. Yes, jailed.

For the crme of being homeless.

What are "progressives" going to do??????????

What will it take????????

I have NO support here, and this is freaking me out!

[annabanana]

19. Ah yes.. good old Debtor's Prisons...

I remember learning about them in Social Studies, way back when..
They were shown to us to let us know how great America was, and how horrible things used to be.

"Are there no workhouses"?

[intheflow]

53. That's it exactly!

Debtor prisons. We truly are morphing into a 21st century Dickensonian country, right before the world's eyes.

[barb162]

121. They'll probably walk to a warmer area of the country.

:(

It's hard to imagine being homeless in such a cold climate. Are shelters there?

[dionysus]

228. you'd be surprised, boulder is quite moderate in temperature.

the mountains block a lot of the bad weather. i went on vacation there in early march.. and went golfing, whereas back home in NY it was icy and snowy.

[timeforpeace]

2. And unfortunately there is no more liberal city in the US than Boulder.

[PJPhreak]

16. Boulder Liberal???? You Have Got To Be Kidding Me!

Yes its Liberal if you are a CU Student or make $250,000 Plus a year!!

If you are poor (Like make less than 25,000 a year) then They Hate you and wish you would Die or Go to Denver!

[enlightenment]

35. I agree. Boulder is hardly a bastion of liberal ideas -

too much money.

[bobbolink]

36. I keep saying that affluence has dragged this country down the terlet.

I used to think it was important for a democracy to have a thriving middle class.

But now we can see that as people become more affluent, they become more selfish, and more insulated.

People were more human, and cared about each other more during the Depression.

I think there is seriously something to learn from that.

[REP]

49. You obviously did not live through the Depression

Squatters' camps were cleared out to make room for income-producing development. People weren't "better," but we did have the WPA and CCC so they did have hope of jobs (though some, like my grandfather, were too proud to accept 'hand-out' jobs like those). Times and people were harder, but memories get distorted by maudlin fiction from the time.

[bobbolink]

72. Oh, stop with the smug denigration.

I KNOW that people cared a lot more about each other BECAUSE I have heard lots of stories from family members WHO LIVED THROUGH IT, and from older friends who also did.

They don't understand attitudes like yours, because they lived it, and know that everyone helped everyone else, however they could.

So kill the sneering put downs. Its a prime example of what I'm talking about.

[REP]

94. I forgive you; I understand you see things through a fog of bitterness and illness

I know you can't help misreading posts to see what you want to see. I forgive you, and wish you well.

[bobbolink]

96. Not accepted, and stop your projections.

You know not what you say.

[happy_liberal]

183. "you see things through a fog of bitterness and illness"

classic case of projection.

[Obamanaut]

295. +1

[ProgressiveEconomist]

89. We've had a forty-year "Revolt of the Haves", with most young people aspiring to be

the next Gordon Gekko.

[timeforpeace]

67. Wikipedia: "Boulder is one of the most Democratic cities in Colorado"

[bobbolink]

77. You want to put it in a cutting way, so it's coming back to you in a cutting way.

The "CLUE" is right there, if you were actually able to read it.

[timeforpeace]

90. No "clue" what you mean. And you're the one calling it The People's Republic of Boulder.

[bobbolink]

95. Because of your crappy comeback, you can just figure it out yourself.

Its telling that you are being so snotty to people who actually LIVE HERE and know what we are talking about, while you only get your talking points from a website.

Buy a clue yourself.

Come back when you can show a little respect for others who KNOW something.

[timeforpeace]

109. I have lived in Boulder my entire life.

[bobbolink]

111. IF that is actually true, then you KNOW the situation, so stop playing the shill here.

[timeforpeace]

112. Yes, I know we are a liberal city jailing the homeless.

[bobbolink]

115. Rigghhhttt.... and you then KNOW that it wasn't *me* who calls it "The Peoples'

Republic of Boulder".

You see, you gave yourself away with that little gem.

[timeforpeace]

129. Post 23, sweetie. Your post. Plus you began this thread blasting Boulder, now you've gone 180 degree

turnaround now that you've trapped yourself into outing our liberal bastion as jailing the homeless. Very confused thread and posts tonight. Get some rest.

[bobbolink]

130. You love to order people around, don't you?

No, you haven't confused me at all... what you are gets clearer and clearer.

[happy_liberal]

185. who ARE you?

Why would anyone be so bitter and mean on a thread like this?

Time for peace....time to take a moment to meditate on your user name.

[maryf]

294. Whoa tfp

Its tough to get rest when you are concerned about being jailed yourself, and your bed is a car seat. the woman has a total right to be bitter, we all should be bitter about the plight of any homeless...

[Hugabear]

139. Ah yes, the always reliable and never wrong Wikipedia

Fuck, if it's in Wikipedia, it must be true.

:sarcasm:

[Greyhound]

168. Democratic does not equal liberal, as you well know.

Boulder has become steadily worse for "people of limited means" for decades as the 'burbs moved in and killed what made Boulder nice. Now it's just another bastion of American fear. It's too bad because it was a wonderful little town, once.

[timeforpeace]

71. Boulder voter registration Jan 2009: Dem 84,000, Rep 34000. You have no clue.

[ThomCat]

78. Non sequitor

The number of registered dems versus republicans has nothing to do with how liberal a place is, given that there area hell of a lot of dem places that are conservative democratic.

And given that ignoring the homeless is a long time sport for the middle class, and also given that democrats take pride in ignoring our liberal base, it is very possible to have a whole lot of democrats who don't give a crap about homelessness.


It is also possible to have a whole lot of very poor republicans who typically vote against their own best interest, and a lot of very poor republicans faced homelessness or knew people who have, so they will respect and protect the homeless.

Personally, I've known some republicans like that. (And I've been homeless) People call them trailer trash. But I'll tell you that they know how serious an issue poverty and homelessness is.


ASSUMING that democrats automatically have the best interest of the homeless at heart, and automatically do what is best for the homeless is just Stupid! It shows that you don't pay attention.

[bobbolink]

97. Your last sentence nails it!

"ASSUMING that democrats automatically have the best interest of the homeless at heart, and automatically do what is best for the homeless is just Stupid! It shows that you don't pay attention."

:bounce: :toast::bounce: :toast::bounce: :toast::bounce: :toast::bounce: :toast:

Ya gotta love how those who think they know it all are lecturing those who actually LIVE in the area!

:rofl:

[PJPhreak]

126. if you have lived in Boulder all your life...

and I am gonna assume that you are more than 25 years old,Then you will remember the 6 week old girl who died in the park at the end of Pearl St in the Winter 1989 of Hypothermia.

Just how could this happen in Boulder? a Child Dies of the Cold?

Why? Her mom was homeless in the winter of 89 and her mom had no other place to go.

Her Moms name was Rachel and she was a Boulder Native.

She was also my Friend,and I was not in town then,I was in cali...you can Bet your savings I would have NEVER let this happen,Had I been in Town!

Republican or Democrat...This should NEVER happen in a Community as wealthy as Boulder!

[timeforpeace]

131. True. Wealthy or not though, Boulder is ultra-liberal and is jailing the homeless as the OP says.

[Greyhound]

169. That oxymoron makes my head hurt. n/t

[bobbolink]

137. How heart-breaking!

And let me guess... Rachel got blamed....

:cry:

[PJPhreak]

138. Oh Gawd Yes She Did...

You know the Rap...Deadhead,Homeless,"Just wanna live off the rest of us" Et Al.

In fact I believe she did some time over this at Canyon City.

It wasn't her Fault...The Boulder Shelter had no room that nite...and she never felt comfortable or truly safe there,Tho the Boulder Shelter at the time did everything they could for as many folk as they could.

Like You this Issue is VERY personal for me. VERY Personal

[bobbolink]

141. That poor woman!

Sorry... this makes me want to take some DUers here and RUB THEIR FUCKING NOSES IN THIS!

Their attitudes are just as responsible for this poor woman's horrible life as if they had been there condemning her themselves!

Even the dog house isn't good enough for them!

I've lost a child, too, and been blamed for it. That is a hell you NEVER get over!

[TheKentuckian]

259. Yeah, and Kentucky is Democratic party two to one

Its the hippies that keep sending McConnell and Dumbing to DC, I reckon.

[CTyankee]

28. Reporting from New Haven, CT. We are pretty liberal but our mayor is preparing

to cut ALL of the city's funding for shelters.

When people start dying on the streets, maybe something will happen...

[KamaAina]

181. Say it ain't so, DeStefano!

He's been around since I was a New Havener (mid-'90s) and never behaved like that. :wtf:

[CTyankee]

189. Don't get me even started on DeStefano!

I don't know if he could do it but he's decimated the staffing at City Hall which hurts the most vulnerable people in the city: elderly poor, children and families, homeless. You can bet the tax collection dept. is running fully staffed though!

One of his most despicable moves was threatening AFSME with those layoffs unless they agreed to no longer represent the janitors, people at the lowest income rung who need union representation the most and who are the workers most vulnerable to exploitation. When AFSME didn't back down, DeStefano laid off even more people in retaliation.

[KamaAina]

190. Did the pod people invade one night and replace him with one of their own?

Did something happen to him when he ran for governor?

'Cause this sure doesn't sound like the guy I remember. :eyes:

[CTyankee]

193. I don't know. I've been here since 1985 and up until this last election I voted

for him every time he ran. No more. I voted for the Green Party candidate.

Oh, I'm sure he would say he was sorry to have to make these cuts because the city is in bad shape financially, but the thing with the janitors just infuriated me...

BTW, were you in New Haven to study at Yale?

[KamaAina]

195. I studied at Yale in the mid-'80s

ended up back up there a few years later, working at the Child Study Center at the med school.

I might even have stayed, but my transit-dependent self couldn't deal with "CT Tran-shit" (many routes ending at 6, hour-long waits on weekends, etc.)

[CTyankee]

199. There was a time in the 90s when things got really better for New Haven.

The city looked so much better with all the gentrification. The Yale Co-Op fell to a Barnes & Noble. The city acquired some really fine restaurants. People were doing well. DeStefano "sold" a street to Yale (don't know exactly how you can do this...sounds like something the de Medicis might have done to the Florentine Republic in the quattrocento or maybe the other way around). The arts were flourishing.

The Bush years finally erased a lot of that and the panic of fall 07 was a real pisser for the cities in CT. It's been hellish every since, altho I love New Haven, live in the city (Westville) and tutor with Literacy Volunteers. My husband and I are retired but he used to take the bus to work and back every day for many years. After 6 pm it's a problem I agree...

[KamaAina]

200. I remember a lot of that

good thing I didn't buy the lifetime Co-op membership back in my student days!

As for selling High Street, did you know that the Green is, and always has been, private property, owned by a shadowy group called the Proprietors? I always wanted to get a horror movie out of that...

[CTyankee]

203. Mory's is practically dead. the Yankee Doodle is closed.

Yes, I love telling people about the stewardship of the Green. See if Stephen Spielberg wants to do that movie...he just loves filming up here. He screwed up traffic so royally in the summer of 2007 it was gridlocked for hours one day (I know cuz I was stuck downtown when it happened) while he filmed his latest Indiana Jones movie...Chapel Street was transformed back to the 50s for that one and Harrison Ford raced his motorcyle across the Old Campus.

[donheld]

76. Boulder ain't what it used to be.

[timeforpeace]

92. True. More liberal than ever before.

[bobbolink]

99. And Your Smugness lives there, so you know?

Sit down and learn something.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

291. The one you replied to

has exhibited very little in their demeanor that is commendable. It is only a matter of time before the cloak falls off completely.

[Greyhound]

304. With anchovies!

I was there and saw what these shitheels did to it once they "discovered" Boulder.

[donheld]

104. NOT! so very not

[bobbolink]

105. Thank you. There are obviously those who think they know what they know not.

Its all very sad.....

:hi:

[donheld]

114. I've lived in the Denver/Boulder area for 41 out of my 50 years alive

I very well remember when Boulder was very very liberal. Even CU is now run by Republican operatives.

[truedelphi]

207. I remember when it was liberal as well.

Homeless were helped and people wer great (Circa 1978 to 1981)

[Cherchez la Femme]

172. You are an insult to your icon

you continue to embarrass both yourself and John's memory.
You seem to deserve it, however John certainly doesn't.

[Greyhound]

174. Bingo!

:thumbsup:

[Rebubula]

194. LOL...

...just because you pal around with a bunch of trust-fund hippies in Boulder does not mean the main population is liberal.

I lived in Boulder for 3 years (92-95) and spent plenty of time up in Nederland - so I know there are plenty of liberal people there. The powers that be are certainly NOT liberal

Moreover, arguing with Bobbolink (who has lived the homeless life for years and is JUSTIFIED IN HER ANGER) is like kicking the neighborhood dog (please take no offense to the analogy Bobbo). We do not cotton to that sort of behavior around here.

[bobbolink]

211. WOOF!!

:yourock: :pals:

[Rebubula]

196. LOL

DUPE.....of above

[sabrina 1]

218. What is your point? I've read your comments and

you seem to be saying that liberals are responsible for the homeless. Does it matter? The point is that people are homeless in this country and no one seems to be doing much about it.

Nor does it seem to be peculiar to one party or the other to try to criminalize homelessness. Giuliani. 'Amercia's Mayor' did an excellent job of that in NYC.

The problem is this country reveres the wealthy, no matter how they came by their wealth, war crimes, corruption, it doesn't matter, so long as you have a big bank account, you are deemed worthy of respect.

The country seems to have lost its soul, if it ever had one. The wealthiest nation on earth refuses to take care of its citizens.

Why is that? Maybe instead of trying to make a political point, you could offer some insight as to why the poor are so disrespected, AND blamed for their own situations in this country.

[KonaKane]

157. Boy do you have Boulder wrong

Boulder may be known for a few dredlocked hippies doing a drum circle at the town park, but that is not what moves and shakes the town. It has a very strong, very organized and very well financed conservative center.

[paulk]

205. the term "latte liberal" was invented especially for Boulder

as others have pointed out, Boulder is hardly "liberal", unless you're fortunate enough to have some money, then it is indeed a liberal paradise.

I lived there for eleven years, I can't stand the place.

It's granola nazi heaven.

[varelse]

3. Poverty is a crime for which only the victims are punished (nt)

[amborin]

4. in many places, it's a crime to sleep in one's car overnight on city streets

[Nikki Stone1]

5. Exactly how are they going to get money out of the homeless?

Considering that these people have nothing, I don't see the point of this law. Now, if you're talking about fining Wall Street for destroying people's lives, then I'm with you on that. And I'd even let a homeless Lloyd Blankfein sleep on the street with charge.

[Orsino]

24. It's not about fining.

It's about making low-paid police responsible for making these inconvenient people invisible.

[ThomCat]

80. They have no intention of getting the money.

They whole point is to build up enough of a record as repeat offenders to get them longer and longer stints in jail, and then in prison, where they are off the street and not the municipalities problem.

It is the ultimate passing of the buck using the only method the municipalities have for dealing with people.

[bobbolink]

85. And, its the Cheap and "HUMANE" solution....

obvious, isn't it?

[ThomCat]

116. If only...

Their bottom line is property values.

The people who get elected and stay elected to city councils are the ones who can maintain property values with a blind dedication. If someone shows compassion, that is wasting taxpayer dollars, and that person usually gets replaced pretty quickly with someone much more value minded.

There is a myth that homeless people lower the value of homes. They won't accept that being homeless is a result of poverty and economic collapse, not a cause of it.

The people on these councils will still stupidly insist on blaming the victims, and they'll do anything they can to make homeless people go away, with force if necessary. They will act as if the very presence of homelessness creates poverty and makes property values drop, and they'll punish anyone homeless who doesn't get out of their way.

[bobbolink]

120. You know, that's a really important point. I hadn't been looking at it from that direction

before.

"When will the greed stop?"

Very good, Thom Cat, thank you!

[mdmc]

6. something the dlc and gop can agree on..

[Greyhound]

305. Just an aside; What do they disagree on? n/t

[kenny blankenship]

8. I bet they don't have proof of health insurance on them either.

They're really asking to have the book thrown at them.

[Better Today]

9. I don't understand your indignation. It sounds like the council plans to

put an immediate moratorium on the tickets and the law, and then take that time to revisit the issue.

Though I agree it's "bad" that the law is on the books in the first place, I would say that this news article is quite positive toward very quick resolution and compassion.

[bobbolink]

12. Then I hope you end up in this situation, maybe then you'd get a clue.

There's always someone who demonstrates the heartlessness that exists among "progressives".

I thank you for showing others the noncaring and ignorance we deal with daily.

[Obamanaut]

262. Is it a good thing to wish bad things on people? I think not. nt

[a la izquierda]

21. Um, you should probably look up some of Bobbolink's

other posts before you dare criticize "indignation." Jeez fuckin' louise.
The callousness with which people treat the homelessness in this country is simply astonishing. But, I can't even truly be surprised anymore, since America is clearly a place that values the rich and shits on the poor. It's disgusting and embarrassing that there are few politicians willing to alleviate the suffering of others; but I guess since the homeless have no money, what's the use in helping them? :sarcasm:

Bobbolink, I hope you're hanging in there this winter. If you're in the Boulder area, I'd love to take you out for lunch and a beer. I'll be in town April 7-11 for a conference.

[bobbolink]

25. ~~tears~~

Thank you.... you have NO idea how much your very kind words mean to me....

I'm beside myself about this...

Really freaking out....

I know my whole situation is not likely to come to a good end, yet look at the dismissive "cute" responses this gets.

I can't even deal with this shit anymore...

thanks...:pals:

[Leopolds Ghost]

61. Bobbo, I just found out a good friend of mine has been homeless for 2 months in the dead of winter

In DC. (You probably heard about the arctic weather we had around Christmas-New Years)

He didn't want to ask us for help, since he had closer friends and is used to making it
on his own. But he was out there camping in the brutal cold! I didn't even know he was
in town.

Oh yeah and he was made homeless after being laid off from a plant closing, only days
before he would have gotten unemployment eligibility.

[Leopolds Ghost]

62. Oh yeah, and the "ultra liberal" local gov't

that maintains the local shelter wanted to close it,

To make room for high-rise development,

it hasn't happened because the developers couldn't get financing, I shit you not.

Someone else I know was involved in that shelter up many years ago, so that rubs me the wrong way even if I didn't know someone who needed to use it.

[bobbolink]

140. My heart goes out to your friend.... please let him know I understand.

I have some things I need to ask for help with, and I've put it off and put it off.... I really do understand.

Over the holidays, I had such a wonderful time being with my Indian friends, and made them lots of beaded snowflake necklaces and earrings... it was WONDERFUL having something to give, and so wonderful to see their smiles at receiving them!

People have it bass-akwards... its much easier to GIVE than it is to receive... receiving takes such humility....

Thanks for sharing this... its going around....

:yourock:

[ThomCat]

86. NO, people are ASKING the council to put an immediate moratorium

on the tickets. The council is "Talking" about having a meeting where they might discuss this. So it's a pre-meeting meeting to discuss whether it even can go on the agenda at the meeting. :(

An immediate moratorium is what someone on the council no-doubt intends to submit to the council the next time they meet, if allowed. But that does not mean that the council as a whole is planning anything.

No city or town council is every really "Planning" anything until after it has been discussed and voted upon. Until then it is only one or more members who plan to bring it to the council, but again, only if allowed. Rules can be very strict in many places about what and how business can be put on the agenda.

[PJPhreak]

10. Boulder has had a war on homelessness for decades.

Boulder has laws that prohibit more than 4 unrelated adults from sharing the same household (Unless you are a CU Student)

Boulder does not meet the min.standard for low income housing.

Boulder residents would rather have all their low income earners live in Longmont,Laffeyette,Broomfeild,Nederland,Ward,Goulden anywhere besides Boulder...If you ain't wealthy or a CU Student (Or Both) you ain't Worthy!!

Boulder was my home for almost 15 years,Wonderful Place...Except for the Snob 900 Turbo/Porsche 911/Elitist/New Age/Snobby Student Crowd.

With the exception of Santa Cruz Ca. I have NEVER seen or been to such Hypocritical City,EVER

Fuck Boulder with a Snob Turbo Tailpipe! Die You Yuppie Scum!!

[Leopolds Ghost]

63. Some of those "liberal" CU students might want to take that law to court.

Sounds like disparate treatment to me.

[bobbolink]

151. Great idea! AND,legal help is much more important to homeless people than

castoff clothes, any day!

thanks for bringing this up!

[happy_liberal]

186. Maybe we have a lawyer on DU that would like to help out?

??

[Leopolds Ghost]

279. Specifically, the fact that CU students are exempted makes it challengable, I think.

You can't say "no speeding $50 fine except CU students." Same principle.

[bobbolink]

301. That would take legal representation, and homeless people don't have that.

Its hard to grasp the legal vulnerability that we homeless people face...its a nightmare.

[ShortnFiery]

11. I guess we'll have to build debtors' prisons and work houses ... that's probably ,,,

the only way (an incarcerated labor pool) that our manufacturing base may return from China? :(

[bobbolink]

14. Yes, that is probably my future.

I sure don't see anyone stepping up to be in our corner and change this course.

[SoCalNative]

13. Well look at the bright side

at least if you get arrested for not paying the fine, you'll be off the streets and have 2 hots and a cot.

(that's sarcasm, just in case anyone didn't get it)

[bobbolink]

17. Yes, thank you for your caring concern.

If we could grow two more legs, you might find it in your heart to give a shit.

[PJPhreak]

15. And to add...

If anyone here at DU wants to Know anything about being Poor in Boulder,Please ask me...I can anwser Any Questions you may have.

[bobbolink]

18. It would be good to post about that!

Its important to know.

Thank you....

I hope you will start a thread about it... not that a lot will care, but it should be out there, anyway.

[PJPhreak]

22. We rented a 14 Bedroom House,

At the corner of Uinversity and Broadway in Boulder in 1983.

We then rented rooms for $100 a month,This covered ALL utilitys,garbage,parking ect.

This House and another one just up Broadway(For you Boulder Oldtimers...The Place with Bugs Bunny Painted on the Garage) were the only places a person could get off the streets in Boulder for less than a Thousand Bucks (First,Last,Deposit) in the entire town!

The City Council Outlawed this in short order!

Make no mistake...I love Boulder (Niwot's Curse Still Kicks My Ass) But those Snobby people can Lick My....

[bobbolink]

29. Thank you for trying. Thank you for having the courage to do something.

Shame on the Boulder "progressives" for not standing up to support you!

I hope you understand why I'm so damned fed up with self-righteous "progressives".... too many are too affluent, and have lost their souls.

Again, thank you for seizing the opportunity, and doing what you could.

Would that others here would follow in your footsteps!

:pals:

[happy_liberal]

39. Man that sucks!

That was a really good idea too. Is there any way to do this and sneak it by the city council? That law is evil@!

[Iggo]

41. 14 bedrooms!!! Dayum!!!

That house would cost sixty hundred bazillion dollars here in SoCal.

[PJPhreak]

52. We paid $600 a month for the place...

So with an income of $1400 we were able to cover everything.

Then the shit hit the fan.

The Frat House behind ours threw a hissyfit...And ran to the City Council,Health Dept,The Boulder PD,and to HHS,spent months dealing with all the Bullshit of running a "Hippie House"

And more than a few Bucks as well!

But how does one 'Fight the powers that be" when you have no money or Legal Backing?

We kept the House open till Fall 85...The City "Condemmed the place,it was sold,and now you can see what they put in its place......CU Student Condos. at $95,000 a pop.

[ThomCat]

88. That is evil!

:cry:

[tango-tee]

284. Disgusting, simply disgusting.

Kicking those who are already helpless and down on the ground.

:mad:

[fascisthunter]

20. a homeless person getting fined? What a brilliant concept

that oughta teach them. And someone please explain to me why punishment has become the solution for all things society finds "inconvenient". I know Americans have great hearts, but the ones who don't have any are in charge, and look focused on destroying us as a class for shits and giggles. Only a twisted mind could possible do as they do to America and call it part of their Freedom.

[bobbolink]

23. And put this into the equation.... Boulder is sooo liberal it is called "The Peoples' Republic Of

Boulder".

And THAT is how "progressives" are treating homeless people.

Yet, "progressives" can't understand why I---and many other homeless people" are ENRAGED.

Yes, brilliant.

Brilliant fucking "progressives".

[fascisthunter]

26. that's incredibly disgusting to hear

those are no progressives...

[CTyankee]

31. Same here, in the "peoples republic of New Haven."

Oh, we'll have the usual outrage from Yale students who for some reason think they actually have a voice in city politics and then they'll go back to studying for finals and such and then they're graduated and gone...poof.

[tango-tee]

285. Perhaps

because it is so easy to be "progressive" and "liberal" when you have a roof over your head, not too many worries, nice clothes on your back and sit in a café musing about things.

Confronted at close range with true need and desperation, i.e. the ugly face of reality for all too many of our fellow human beings, suddenly these progressive and liberal ideas vanish into thin air. The "oh yes, we gotta do something, but we don't want them in our neighborhood" crowd.

[PJPhreak]

27. The "Camping Tickets" are $150 a Pop,

and the Boulder PD will Stack 'em up on you really fast...The Idea is that since the Homeless can't pay for the Four Tickets they got this week and don't wanna get arrested for FTA (Falure To Appear) the Homeless will leave rather than spend time in the Boulder County Lockup.

The Boulder PD and the City Council has had a shitload of "Backroom/Sorta-Legal policies on the homeless since they built the Pearl St Mall in 1976.

[bobbolink]

33. I think, if we could gather the stats, we would find that MOST municipalities,

and that includes "progressive" ones, have these types of pogroms.

And it works because they KNOW we homeless people haven't the support to put a stop to it.

YET, what we get told by those who consider themselves sooooo "aware" is to go somewhere else.... like there are places where its fine to be homeless. I get that all the time, from people who even consideer themselves "socialist".

The ignorance is staggering, and I have lost patience with it!

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. This war on the homeless and other at risk populations

has to stop...

PERIOD

I thought we were better than this... oh wait, we are not.

Jeesus age, this is nuts

[bobbolink]

34. I agree totally. NOW, HOW are we going to stop it?

Really, you are right... the time has come.

Well, its waaaay past time.

Now, WHAT are we going to do?

Continue to leave homeless people like me to fend for ourselves?

Keep denigrating us for being freaked out at shhit like this, and ENRAGED?

WHAT are we going to do?

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. I have no more power than you, beyond writing letters to paper

and working at a shelter...

It takes a nation to change... I don't know what it takes

[SoCalNative]

57. This is what you do

not continually bitch and moan and play the perennial victim on an internet forum, always expecting someone else to solve your problems for you:

http://www.losaltosonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20278&Itemid=198

[bobbolink]

75. bwahahahaha! Poor people are just "playing victim"

Just like Bull Connor said about black folk.

You're sure showing your true "liberal" stripes.

Like with that authoritarian "Here's what you do"....great parental stance, there.

[SoCalNative]

113. Just because I'm a liberal

doesn't mean I have to support people who won't help themselves and always play the victim card.

I've never once see you post anything but demands that we all do something to help you. Why should we when you seem to think you are not responsible for your own destiny?

[bobbolink]

117. for a "liberal", you sure have the Con talking points down very well.

You strike out to hurt those who are already hurting, just like the cons.

If you see some of the other posts here, you can see some TRUE liberals... people who actually have hearts.

But go ahead and expose yourself for what you are.... it is actually helping others to understand how "liberal" towns like Boulder can be so mean.

I thank you for that.

[ThomCat]

143. Tomorrow when you wake up, read your own post again

and see how really mean and heartless that was. :(

You are assuming that "people" aren't doing anything to try to help themselves unless? Why? Because you you haven't seen them helping themselves and having certified for the public that, yes, it really happens? People do what they can. If you can't accept that then you you're really %$@&! judgmental.

You are attacking someone by accusing her of "always play(ing) the victim card." The fact is that she describes her own life accurately. That isn't playing a victim card. That is being homeless.

You claim you have never seen her post "anything but demands that we do something to help you." She hasn't asked for any personal help, so I call total Bullshit!

All she is "demanding" is that people try to understand what homeless people are going through, have some compassion, and deal with homeless people as real people. if you find that "demand" so incredibly unreasonable then you have some serious issues.

You end your obnoxious post with the absurd and imaginary idea that "you seem to think that you are not responsible for your own destiny." Excuse me, but nobody is in full control of what happens in their own lives. If you think you are, then you live in a La La Fantasy world.

Blaming her because her life went beyond her control, while yours didn't, is the height of arrogance and the depth of lack of compassion. How Dare You!

I really hope this is just a bender, and tomorrow you regret being such an arrogant and judgmental ass. If this is the real you, then you're no progressive and the worst of a democrat.

[bobbolink]

147. Thank you, ThomCat!

You are a gentleman!

You know what gets me the most about those mean-spirited things? If they are taken to their ultimate conclusion, those of us who are sick or too old or too injured to work are just so useless that we should be put to death.

THAT is what is really under all of that moralizing.

And, yes, it's just like the despicable RW.

Thank you.... please be good to yourself, because while you can't work, you are a much better human being and offer so much goodness to this society than so much of the judgmental types.

:loveya:

[Terra Alta]

159. +1000000

Blaming the homeless for their situation is not something real progressives do.

Everyone who is homeless is homeless because of something that is beyond their control... no one "chooses" to be homeless. To say that homeless people "play the victim card" and refuse to help themselves, is quite disgusting if you ask me!

[SoCalNative]

180. I regret nothing

Don't like it, don't read my posts.

I'm tired of whiners who do nothing but make their problems everyone elses'.

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

225. And so you answer by insulting her again TWICE

By calling her a whiner. And by claiming that by raising awareness of homelessness she is "making (her) problems everyone elses'". Again, how very un-progressive of you.

You are advertising in your post one issue that matters to you. Does that make you a whiner too, trying to make your problems everyone elses' too? x(

Your bad attitude opens up every activist to attacks to these same attacks from every apathetic wank that doesn't give a fuck about that particular issue.

As a former activism for a bunch of issues, including LGBT rights, I really wish everyone could have all their rights. I know that real activists may fight for one or two issues, but they respect activists across the board and support the rights of others. Supporting rights is not something you do only for one group, because if it is, that shows that you only care about one group of people, and that's pretty bigoted.

[LanternWaste]

231. Your objective, non-interpretive, measurable evidence of that being...?

"...who do nothing but make their problems everyone elses'."

Your wholly objective, non-interpretive, measurable evidence of that being...? Or (and I find this more likely) you're merely projecting only the anecdotal experiences which validate an already preconceived opinion onto a demographic as whole.

I see few demands and whines coming from that segment. Your own, personal demographic on the other hand, seems to take a righteous pride in doing the precise thing you rail against so.

[Terra Alta]

155. how do you know she hasn't helped herself?

Maybe she can't.. has that crossed your mind?

Don't criticize someone until you have a walk in their shoes.

[happy_liberal]

187. Bobbolink is not just looking out for herself

She educates and advocates on behalf of all homeless and people living in poverty.

This is not about one person, but a rapidly growing population of people living with these difficulties and our uncaring evil corrupt government that continues to make the situation worse meanwhile rewarding the rich elite that gave them their jobs.

[tango-tee]

286. I'm trying to put myself in Bobbolink's shoes.

Having had the good fortune of never having been homeless - where do you go to take a shower and do laundry so you look presentable for a job interview? If you don't have a fixed address, most likely you won't be hired. Then: No job, who will rent an apartment to you? Where can you stash your meager belongings? Where do you sleep without worrying about your safety? You have health problems - where do you go? A decent dinner?

I can only imagine that these problems, simple SURVIVAL, faced day after day after day must take a tremendous toll on a person. Each time you turn around, there is another wall that needs to be climbed. Perhaps those of us who have been lucky enough to "have been in control of our destiny" as you put it in your post, can't even begin to comprehend how desperate people "out there" are.

[Terra Alta]

79. my heart goes out to you

and the millions of others who are homeless in America...

I want to do something.. but what can I do... I am just one person..

We are spending billions and billions on two useless, unnecessary wars, while millions of men, women, and children have no place to call home. It makes me want to vomit.

You are in my thoughts.. :hug:

[bobbolink]

91. thanks for your thoughts. That helps a lot. You may have noticed the nasty comments here...

so, yes, your caring thoughts mean a lot. This is very scary to me, and to other homeless people---as it is meant to be.

It is part of the organized intimidation.

There ARE things you can do.... mind if I PM you?

There ARE no individual solutions.. it is a societal issue, demanding societal answers.

[Terra Alta]

100. feel free to PM me

I would be more than willing to help out any way I can...

[RainDog]

32. what's your story, bobbolink? n/t

[ThomCat]

93. It has been posted before and is pretty well know.

I would like to know though why you want her to post her story again.

Demanding that any homeless person who speaks up tell their story, and then defend how poor they really are, and what they have done/haven't done before they are "allowed" any credibility to speak is a regular and IMHO disgusting ritual.

I would hate to think that something like that was happening here, except that I've seen it happen here at DU, and I think it has even happened to Bobbolink in the past. :(

[RainDog]

102. I was asking out of concern

I'm not here all the time, ThomCat, sometimes for long stretches and I thought it was a sign of caring to inquire.

in most other situations in life when someone mentions a situation, it's considered caring to ask.

I don't expect anyone to defend how poor they are. People here don't know my situation, and I certainly do not judge anyone for finding themselves out on the street in this economy.

[ThomCat]

122. Thank you.

You weren't demanding the ritual, but it wasn't clear whether or not you were heading in that direction. I'm sorry I had to ask and put you on the spot. It's best to head those things off before they start.

[tango-tee]

287. ThomCat,

Thank you for standing up for my friend Bobbolink.

[bobbolink]

107. Thank you, Thom Cat! It means a lot to have someone pop up in my corner!

There is so much insensitivity and demanding...

:cry:

How are you, friend?

:pals:

[ThomCat]

132. Hi Bobbolink

:hug:

It's all doctors all the time for me right now.

My insurance company in their infinite wisdom is now even declaring doctors at local hospitals out of network. That means I have to stop seeing two of my specialists, because I won't be able to afford the additional 20% of medical expenses for being out of network. Fun. :(

Now I have to go through the song and dance of trying to find doctors who are still on network, who are taking new patients, whose offices are wheelchair accessible, who are willing and able to treat someone whose medical situation is as complicated as mine.

The last time I went though this dance I had one neurologist tell me he couldn't treat me because I have too many medical issues, involving too many specialists, and taking too many medications. He just didn't have the time a patient like me requires to treat. While it is good at he was honest and up front with me, that is a really Horrible answer to get from any doctor. "You're too messed up to come here."

So while I go through this dance, I have to look for doctors who aren't prejudiced against poor people and are expert enough to manage an apparently complicated case like mine. :(

[bobbolink]

133. Oh, shit! That is beyond horrible.... Tell me whose knees to break...I'm in a mood!!!

Shit like this in the richest country in the world just makes me nutz! And, yes, I'm being "demanding" when it comes to JUSTICE!

Damn, this is sooo wrong... I wish I could do something... SOMETHING!

It would feel so satisfying to punch the whole lot in the mouth.

You are one tremendous person to keep dealing with all of that, and still caring for others--you could give lessons!

:hug: :loveya: :hug:

[RedRocco]

37. I've been reading the comments at the link

now I feel all icky :(

[bobbolink]

38. Then NOW you get what we homeless people deal with daily.

So, surely you can now understand our anger, right?

[RedRocco]

44. I have always understood it bobbo, barely having a home myself

[bobbolink]

127. Hurts, doesn't it? And its relentless.... it just never stops.

My fingers are crossed for you.... be good to yourself!

I'm glad you understand what we are dealing with on a daily basis.... I can't allow myself to read those comments, or I would hurl myself off a cliff.

(Which would make too many people here happy, so I refrain.... ^_^ )

:hi:

[orion007]

48. How many shelters are located in your area?

There are certain people that would much rather have the privacy and freedom of camping out, even in the winter, then being in a shelter.
A problem that could arise from permitting camping is that many people will leave the shelters, and that's understandable.
There's also the regulations of shelters, and some shelters won't accept guests if they're under the influence of alcohol or drugs, even if the person is acting responsible.

Do you know the ratio of shelter beds available to people in need of a warm place to stay?
Have any local churches opened their doors to give shelter?

[bobbolink]

69. You know what... I don't even answer questions about "shelter" anymore.

Many of us have posted TONS about the bad conditions of "shelter", and the absurdity of considering that an "answer" in the richest country in the world.

When all of you DEMAND that everyone in this richest country in the world have decent housing, THEN it will change....not when you are centered on "shelter"--hell, "shelter" is the RW "solution", because it not only permits, but DEMANDS authoritarian harrassment of people.

[ThomCat]

98. Exaclty. With hundreds of thousands of homes vacant

because of foreclosures, and more being foreclosed upon, there are far too many empty homes out there for anyone to be sleeping in a shelter.

The problem is the housing market and pricing. The problem is the predatory system of making people go into debt for a lifetime to own a home. The problem is putting banks ahead of people over and over and over again.

Our party has forgotten the days when they would represent the people, FDR style, or local-action style to get people set right, instead of giving in to the right-wing ideas about giving people only the barest and meanest charity.

[bobbolink]

110. I appreciate your caring thoughts, but you know what? I wouldn't evem want, nor would I accept, a

home that somebody lost because of predatory lending. It should go back to the owners, and I would join them in fighting for that justice!

In the richest country in the world, we can have good housing for everyone. We don't have to pit one group against another.

"giving people only the barest and meanest charity."

Thanks for putting it so clearly. I have been successfully intimindated from writing it this clearly, because DUers love to call me names, including ungrateful and all that other shit when I insist on Justice Not Charity.

thank you!

[orion007]

106. I asked you about the local shelters , I didn't say shelters where

the answer to homelessness.
Your the one who posted this article which mentioned people not being able to spend every night there due to their regulations.
If you're going to be an advocate for anyone, including yourself, playing the victim while being rude and abrasive will not get you far.
We have 2 "shelters" in our town,they are greatly appreciated by those who have used them.
There are people who want to remain free,so they camp during the warm months and use the shelter during the winter.
Last week a young man who wasn't using the shelter, fell asleep near his campfire, he was extremely intoxicated and caught on fire.
He is now in a burn unit in Boston, 3rd. degree burns on both legs, and will be there for about 6 months.
Others are in between getting a residence, others just lost their apts, others just got out of jail or the local rehab.
If people want help there's many services available to start the process for housing, medical help, food stamps, etc.
Then there's the clients who have burnt every bridge with most local landlords.
Many people do not want these services,and there are many people and families who get up and running again.
I would also love affordable decent housing,and not have to spend much too much of my salary on it. You never address all the issues involved with each person who is homeless,you just rant and rage how all is entitled,

[bobbolink]

119. Thank you, Mister Brown, for your input.

[orion007]

124. To you it's Mrs. Brown and I do have a lovely daughter..

[happy_liberal]

191. we just had a homeless person die in my town

He was kicked out of a shelter because he started drinking again.

This shelter considers itself religious organization but they violate all the principles of Christianity by judging people for something they do in their own homes. They sent a man to his death over a substance that was the basis of Jesus' first miracle. Not only that, they charge $10 per night and probably use all of their expenses as a tax write off.

Shelters are not the answer. They provide no real solution and are often more interested in pushing their views and feeling superior than actually helping.

[salguine]

42. Isn't it obvious? The health care solution, applied here, would solve the problem...Just

force all homeless people to buy houses, or face a stiff fine. No more homeless problem!

[Jkid]

43. Jailing homeless people with REAL Criminals?

Yeah, like that will get rid of the homeless problem. Well it did not.

[Leopolds Ghost]

64. Interesting stat: homeless people are less likely to commit crimes than the population at large.

Problem is that people associate homeless people with scam artists

(non--homeless people who panhandle to make money on the side).

That is less of a problem these days, in the current economic climate
most people panhandling are pretty desperate. The arctic weather we've
been having makes it obvious.

[Leopolds Ghost]

65. I bought a meal for guy at 7-11. owner sez "are you buying this food for him? don't do that again."

I bought a meal for a guy sitting outside the 7-11 all night
in the freezing cold.

The 7-11 owner said "Are you buying this for him? We don't want
him in here. We threatened to call the cops on him for scaring
customers. I'll let you buy this food, just don't do it again."

[ThomCat]

103. Damn. That's cold and vicious.

Are people that scared of a homeless person who asks for food? Can't they imagine what it would be like to be so desperate that you have to be in that position?

That owner is harassing that guy for trying to survive, pure and simple. :(

[bobbolink]

128. "I'll let you buy this food...." How damned generous of him to take your money!

I don't even know where to begin.... this sociopathological society is just too much to even fathom!

:pals: for being such a good soul!

[Terra Alta]

154. what an asshole.

that 7-11 would not get my business again... at least not until it is owned by someone with some compassion. And I would tell everyone I know to stay away, too.

[happy_liberal]

192. next time you can buy food from somewhere else and give it to him

nt

[bobbolink]

81. Very important stat... do you have the source for that?

AND, homeless people are more likely to be victims of crime, rather than perpetrators.

The reason I'm asking for source.... I'm thinking of somehow having short, to the point mythbusters to somehow get into the public view... over and over and over, ala the RW cons.

I dunno.... it hasn't been tried, so what the hell do we have to lose?

[Leopolds Ghost]

278. I wish I remember where I read this. I think it was a quote by a think tank in a guide book.

One of those "what do I do if I encounter homeless people when visiting Washington, DC?" things. The FAQ on the subject (courtesy of the homeless policy person) mentioned the statistical evidence as such. It was a fairly compassionate article.

[Desertrose]

45. This clearly needs a kick.

I am appalled at the attitude of so many - here on DU & elsewhere. My god...what is so hard about helping out a brother or sister in need? Why do you think homeless deserve less than any other human being?

The comments of some of the people who live in Boulder...you'd think they were being asked to give up their warm beds for crying out loud. All these people were asking was a safe place to CAMP ...to sleep..to LIVE!

All I can say is I hope they quickly repeal these insane fines and give these folks a BREAK!

(recc'd also, btw)

[happy_liberal]

46. My God! What have we become?

Why do we allow this in our society? What the hell do they expect people to do?!!

Have they even considered helping the people instead of criminalizing their misfortune?

In Anchorage,Alaska they are debating purchasing a motel to house the homeless, where they are expected to pay a small amount and help contribute to the upkeep of the building. Up until now, we have had many many homeless people die this year so the Mayor created a homeless task force. So far the only solution had been to...make them pack all of their stuff up and move where no one could see them right before winter.

We need to start demanding solutions to help people and pronouncing very loudly that this type of behavior is unacceptable. And we all need to stand up together, this is not for the homeless to fight alone. They already have enough to do with the daily tasks of just living in a difficult situation.

Where do we find the heart and soul of our nation? This is not who we are meant to be.

[bobbolink]

83. You have just helped me more than you know!! "We all need to stand up

together, this is not for the homeless to fight alone. "

Oh, thank you for that.

You just helped to take the sting out of all the really ugly comments this got.

We truly CAN'T do it alone.... WE AREN'T HEARD, NO MATTER HOW WE TRY TO TELL IT.

I'm so freaking scared tonight, I can't even begin to say it....

[PJPhreak]

47. This is what the Boulder "Residents" really think...

Copied from The Boulder Daily Camera Comments on this article...

"Send them to Longmont-they get free backpacks there."

"If they really want to live here, why not buy a home?"

"This new "law" will destroy Boulder as we know it."

"Bum fight's now that's a money maker !!! Bio- Dome for the homeless that has a nice ring to it !!!"

"Kudos to the Boulder Police for pushing these Bums back. Keep ticketing them and keep them out of our Parks, period !"

"I enjoy camping, but I own a home. Does this mean I'm allowed to set up a campsite in Boulder open space when I don't feel like driving up to the mountains, or do I have to lose my house first? Hate to sound entitled, but I should get something for my tax dollars. God knows it isn't snow removal.

And of course there was a good turnout. It's not like they had anything else to do."

"If you want to live off the grid...move to Haiti and find out what life is really like when you don't have the constant support of wealthy taxpayers to pay for programs that keep you alive. We don't need or want any shanty towns in Boulder."

Progressive My ASS!!

And I will say there a lot of good people who have over the years done their best to help the Homeless in Boulder...They tho are constantly browbeaten and chastised by the "Boulder Elitist Attitude" that is so prevalent there.

[SammyWinstonJack]

50. That's a whole lot of ugly there. Horrible people.

:puke:

[Desertrose]

55. I Know...I couldn't believe those comments!

I wish I had the power to change things...wake people up to the fact that there is NO EXCUSE to treat others going through hardships as lesser beings.

ARGHHH!!!!

[invictus]

51. Homeless people fined for not having homes?

That's almost as stupid as fining people who can't afford health insurance for being uninsured.

[SammyWinstonJack]

54. Along the same lines. Ain't this just the bestest country in the World?

:silly: Whole buncha greedy self-absorbed disgusting people dumping on the less fortunate.


Makes ya proud to be an American, eh? :puke:

[bobbolink]

134. Yup, and it makes you even more proud when you get to be the dumpee.

thanks... :hi:

[KoKo]

56. They don't Care About You...when there are Homeless in Haiti...

It's how it works. The "Homeland" isn't what it's about...it's about WHO IS POORER than AMERICANS who SLEEP ON STREETS! Always been even back in the 60's.

How do we deal with this? Well the "American Way" is that there are always folks more "poorer" that the NeoCons/New Dems and rest will deal with along with FAKE Christian Right.

If AMERICAN POOR SLEEP HOMELESS...it's THEIR FAULT...NO AID FOR THEM...but if NATION BUILDING by THINK TANKS say OTHERS are much more DESERVING...then the MONEY ($$$$$$$$$) flows that way.

Brad and Angolina are all for SAVING THE POOR....as long as it's SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

And BRAD and Angolina get BIG TAX DECUCTIONS for the DONATIONS! And ...what ANGENCY tracks if they EVER REALLY GIVE ...IN FULL?

SCAMS....SCAMS....SCAMS....CELEBRITY CULTURE...BENEFITS ALL OF THEM...NONE OF THE REST OF US!

[dajoki]

58. It is dispicable...

and I don't consider anyone beneath me.

K&R

[deaniac21]

59. I let the homeless sleep in my back yard. Let's them stay

away from the police hassles. They are always wonderful.

[PJPhreak]

68. Almost Any "Transient" who can get here,

Is welcome to pull up in my yard for a bit,I'll always make sure that they have a Hot Shower,Clean laundry,lotsa hot food,use of the Intertubes,and most inportantly a SAFE place to lay ones head.

If I could type (I Hunt and Peck a keyboard) and had better writing skills,oh the book i could write...Its easy to end up homeless,Its almost impossible to get "Unhomeless" without a support system...I know,it took five years,80+ hours a week working,living on less than Ramen some times and putting up with LOTSA BS to get where we are today.

And make no mistake,we are still living in poverty by most American Standards. The thing that saved my ass a was lot of support from Family,Friends and a few understanding strangers and a dose of pure luck...Running across a Craigslist ad for a "Hunting Cabin" out in rural KS.

We Were Lucky.

Most Homeless do not have the support that we had.

Again...We were Lucky.

[happy_liberal]

197. That's awesome!

:applause:

[asdjrocky]

60. Finally a solution to the homelessness problem-

just make it illegal. This has been done in many cities across the country. It's a shame there should be any kind of law on the books that they should have to suspend.

[maryf]

66. Wow...

Its truly inhumane, back to the 1800's or worse...I'll be telling the folks I know in Boulder, this is a sin...

[blindpig]

70. Like that around here

The gentrified don't like reality, it might ruin their day.

It's getting meaner all the time.

k&r

[Terra Alta]

73. this is horrible.. just horrible

fining people for being homeless?:wtf: What is this country coming to? This is one of the reasons why I can't say I'm proud to be an American.. for us to treat the least among us like this.. unbelievable.. and we are supposed to be the richest, most powerful country in the world. What a bad example we are setting. :(

[PJPhreak]

74. Kickkity nt

[Robeson]

82. Reagan smiles from hell.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

87. Anybody remember "General Assistance" before Reagan demonized the poor?

Even childless adults could get it. Most of the homeless could live on a pittance now and actually did back then, without attracting much public attention or burdening taxpayers very much.

Back then, very few parents had to explain to toddlers why they wont "help" numerous humiliated wretches lying in the street in utter human degradation.

[Terra Alta]

160. I don't remember that...

seeing as I was born just after Ray-gun was inaugurated. But as a childless adult who is still living at home and can't afford to get out on my own... I could have really benefited from a "General Assistance" program... Fuck Reagan and I hope he is rotting in hell! :grr:

[sendero]

84. This will be a self-correcting problem..

... the idiot cities that pull this shit cannot afford to provide room and board for the homeless, which is what jail is - even though not optimal conditions for the jailed the cost to the jailor is high.

These fuckwit cities that think they can "outlaw" homelessness are digging their own graves, they are just too stupid to see it.

[PJPhreak]

101. Belive Me...

Boulder CAN afford to fix this,in fact Boulder is probably one of the few places in the US that can! They have the Money,Boulder just does not want Poor People living there.

Ask any Boulder Resident what happened to Naderville in N.Boulder.

To Paraphrase a Old Hippie Hero of mine...

"They Have The Ways and Means...they Just Won't Let You Be"

[ThomCat]

108. Right. It is an image and prestige problem, more than a money problem.

Boulder doesn't want "those people smelling up the place." So they'll do whatever they have to do to get rid of the poor and homeless.

They want a nice city with a minimum income requirement, and it sucks to be you if you can't meet it. :(

[PJPhreak]

118. Boulder is the place that this thought originated from...

This was real popular in the 80's in Boulder,in fact it found it way onto the back of many a Saab or BMW

[ThomCat]

135. it sounds like the kind of place where that would be appropriate.

:(

[janx]

230. And that was two decades ago.

Yuppie Scum won.

[bobbolink]

142. Sorry, no.... it won't end that way.

Remember "Grayhound Therapy"? Giving mentally ill people a one-way ticket out of town?

Thats what all of this is, and they won't ever have enough financial blowback to stop their shit.

[Bluebear]

123. A city without a soul, evidently.

[Yurovsky]

125. This is madness...

basically being arrested for existing.

Makes me want to vomit. Those pushing for this atrocity should experience even a day without a place to call home. I can't believe we've let 8 years of right wing rule turn us into monsters... well, I guess it goes back a lot further, like 1980 when Reagan seized control of our former democracy.

[bobbolink]

145. I agree with you right up to your blame of the RW...Boulder is a LIBERAL town.

This is the doing of "LIBERALS", "PROGRESSIVES".

We finally must face the fact that liberals and progressives aren't the lovely people we want to believe we/theyy are.

There is a reason that the term "latte liberal" was coined.

We MUST face this fact, painful tho it is.

[Yurovsky]

255. Yep, it sucks to confront that truth...

you have Suzy Hairbow who votes solidly Dem & drives a Prius to soccer practice and lives in a wonderful house in a hip suburb who would shit her pants if a homeless person slept on her perfect lawn. I just wish everyone would try to empathize with the least fortunate in our society. I have a brother in law who has had serious mental health issues, in and out of the prison system and mental health facilities, and my lovely wife has spent more than a few nights (crying & ) wondering if he's lying in a ditch dead somewhere and if anyone would even bother to help him. I just wonder where, as a society, our sense of humanity has gone. It's not right or left, religious or atheist, it's simply about caring for our fellow man. And it breaks my heart to see how callous "progressives" or the oh-so-pious religious right are towards those in dire straights.

Like the Youngbloods said over 40 years ago, "c'mon people now, smile on your brother... try to love one another right now". Sounds cheesy and simplistic, but if everyone lived that creed, how cool would that be???

[Odin2005]

136. The comments for that story are disgusting.

:puke:

[orion007]

144. What's everyone doing to help in their community??

1. Are you on a first name basis with any homeless people?
2. Do you have extended every day conversations with your neighbors who you know are homeless?
3. Do you share meals, either at a cafe or a shelter?
4. Do you volunteer at a shelter?
5 Do you know who to look out for in your community concerning their health issues?
6. Have you gathered good clothing for them, and or found out what their in need of?
7. How do you show your concern and give help especially to the homeless children in your community.


Let's talk now about everyone's concern and what each of us do to give respect and dignity and help to a person who's experiencing homelessness for whatever reason.

Any suggestions should also be posted

[bobbolink]

146. You are on the right track... thanks for asking people to take action!

However, a lot of your suggestions are charity, and prolong the suffering.

This is NOT about the lack of charity... this is about JUSTICE.

DUer Sapphire Blue used to post here all the time, reminding people that it's LOW-INCOME HOUSING, that is needed, not more damned "shelters"!

As for your #2, I no longer tell people I'm homeless... they go from liking me and being nice to me to being invasive, demanding, critical and judgemental. The last straw for me was a very liberal couple.... actually called themselves "Socialists", who were really neat to me, and we had lots of good times.

Then I told them I'm homeless and they turned into parental units, assuming I was stooopid and needed them to fix me.

Never again.

They don't deserve my truth when they can't act like human beings.

[orion007]

148. Justice? well there's a long long line of people on this planet

waiting for justice, which will never arrive from their governments.
That being said, we all, including the homeless can help our neighbors.
Now divine justice is a different story.

[bobbolink]

150. Oh, well, then, Ok, I will just give it up.

Too bad that Martin Luther King had it so wrong.. he should have settled for charity.

[orion007]

156. Are you saying that MLK didn't believe in divine justice.? n/t

[bobbolink]

210. that is so absurd, it doesn't even warrant a reaction of any kind.

I'm sure MLK is having a good laugh at you.

[PJPhreak]

149. I'll speak for Myself

1. Are you on a first name basis with any homeless people?

Many,in a dozen cities across the US

2. Do you have extended every day conversations with your neighbors who you know are homeless?

As Often as possible

3. Do you share meals, either at a cafe or a shelter?

I'll feed anybody who is hungry,matters not who they are or their political Beliefs,Hunger knows nothing nor cares about politics.

4. Do you volunteer at a shelter?

I wish I could...there isn't one for a hundred miles of my house,the closest ones are in Lawerance or Wichita.
My yard and house is always open to those in need,no matter what.

Do you know who to look out for in your community concerning their health issues?

Yes.The nice thing about living in a town as small as mine (68 In town,107 In the Township) we are all aware who is needing a hand and are always willing to help.

6. Have you gathered good clothing for them, and or found out what their in need of?

Yes! I built and run The Virgil Community Free Box...I am a VERY experienced Dumpster Diver and Lawerance and Manhattan Ks. Dumpesters are Very Good! We grab all the Clothing,Canned Food,Kitchen Stuff,Small appliances and anything else that is in good shape that can be reused in any way. Thank you K.U and K.State Students for being such excellent "Consumers" and believers in "The Disposable Society"
My community is very Poor (Per capita income in Greenwood County is about 9,000 a year) They can use all the help that Kansas and its poor economy can't provide.

7. How do you show your concern and give help especially to the homeless children in your community.

See No.6

[orion007]

152. There's a wonderful generosity of spirit in how you move in

your community.
Not being insensitive to the per.capita of your town which causes such hardships,I hope you have others that are able to join you in looking out for and helping one another.
Thanks so much for posting..

[orion007]

153. 68 people?? oh my,

I read the number it but it didn't sink in until after I posted.
How did you get your own town with 68 people or township with a few more?
Is it a very old historic area?
What's there and how far to the next town.

[PJPhreak]

161. Lol,It not "My" Town,Hehe...

Virgil Kansas is an old dying Oil Boom town,Incorporated in the 1890's built up in the 30's,40's and 50's.
Its economic base nowadays is cattle Ranching and AgraBiz...like a lot of communities in this part of the US it is slowly fading,The young people are leaving just as soon as they can,there is no money here,none.

We have two businesses here...A Freeper Bar that is open 4 hours a nite,4 days a week and the Woodson County COOP,Virgil Branch...The Feed Store and Grain Silo (Every Kansas town has one).

The nearest town is Hamilton Ks.about 10 miles away by County Road,The nearest Grocery store in 19 miles,the nearest Gas is 24 Miles,The Hospital is also 24 miles away.If one needs anything that the small grocery store doesn't have the nearest "Real" Town is Emporia...41 miles away.

As a Native New Yorker (I grew up in Nassau County Long Island)and tho this area is Freep as Hell,We love it here. We laughingly say "There is 66 of "Them" and 2 of "Us".

Hey,Every Town should have a "Tokin Hippie" or Two!

[orion007]

163. Well, you could run for Mayor and it would be your town.

This is an OMG, I know Nassau County, I was born in Brooklyn then we moved to Suffolk County,Huntington.
How the hell did you end up there?
I thought I downsized my life by moving to Vermont, I'm one of 12,000 in my "little town"
It must be a big deal if someone new arrives, do you have a welcome wagon....lol
We're experiencing our youth leaving Vermont for Boston, NYC ,Az and Colorado,they can't be replaced, but we do have babies arriving weekly.
Do most of the residents get along?
How do you deal with a fire or crime?
Thank god for the bar, I used to go to the Salty Dog in Hempstead, been there?

[PJPhreak]

164. Huntington? Oh Hell Yes!!

I graduated from Half Hollow Hills H.S.East! (1976) My younger Brother is a Walt Whitman Alum!(1979)

I spent my Childhood in Garden City and my Teenage Years In Melville!

Can you say Adventureland? LOL!

My Longtime GF (29 years) is from the Wichita area and after tring to make in Colorado,California and Arizona we gave up...The cost of living is outta control!

As far as Fire or police...Well one is kinda on their own on that,tho everybody knows what everybody drives so strange cars or folk tend to be noticed really fast, and everybody (Except us,We don't do "Firearms") is armed. It is normal to see the locals carrying Rifles,Handguns and Compound Bows,there is a Rifle Rack in almost all of the Pick'em up Trucks and on every ATV around here.

And tho my political views are WAY different than everybody else's here,The townsfolk know we are Peaceniks...so we have been welcomed nicely here.

My fave place of Imbibement on Long Island...And I'm gonna date myself here...My Fathers Place in Roslyn.

I was one of the Oyster Bay Expressway Dragsters back in the 70's...We all hung out at the Burger King on Hempstead Tpk and The Oyster Bay...The Racing was Amazing (Tho the Nassau Co.Cops thought otherwise) and we used to Cruise New York Ave in Huntington,before we went to "Smokers Hollow" on Sweet Hollow Road and the Northern State Pky.

My,My, Small world!

[immoderate]

184. My Father's Place? -- Eppy!

That dump had some great music.

--imm

[orion007]

206. Nassau Police? my brother and I had to really watch ourselevs

when we went into Nassau County, our Mom's cousin was married to a Naasau cop/detective who eventually became the Chief of Police there.
I hope they weren't too tough on you guys drag racing.
A short time after we moved to Vt. he I caught him on TV speaking/updating about the horrific shooting that had taken place on the LIRR, he's retired now.
I remember HHH High School, was that on Sweet Hollow Road?,Sun Ming was on the corner?
God, I miss the real Chinese egg-rolls and Wanton Soup, the 2 things that you can't get here.
I shouldn't complain though, because you might not even have a Chinese restaurant by you.
My younger sister graduated from Cold Spring Harbor High in 77, we had moved down to Lloyd's Neck by then.An old Gold Coast home, a big white elephant right on the LI Sound.
It's interesting how much we all got around to other towns, even while in high school.
We had a good life growing up there,and many great memories.
Have you been back?
I get a bit overwhelmed by all the traffic, used to taking it slow here.

[PJPhreak]

208. Back when I lived there...

Melville was much more rural than it is today. In fact the house that I lived in (On the corner of Ruland Rd and 110) is now a parking lot for a Costco. Gawd that house was nice,one of the older homes that still stood as the area started to develop.There were farm fields behind us and lotsa ground across 110 and north of Farmingdale U. to ride dirtbikes.

Yup HHHHSE is on Sweet Hollow.but I don't remember Sun Ming...I went to school there 72-76,in fact they were just building HHHHSW about 6 blocks west of the Old School...We all thought it was weird that the school district was splitting up the High school,9th and 10th in HHHHSW and 11th and 12th in HHHHSE till one realized that there were over 5000 kids in the two bulidings...big school

its been years snice I've been back for any time,2004 was the last time I was in NY...as a native NY'er I was Inraged that the GOP was having its Con at Madison Square...took my vacation time and joined the thousands of NY'ers screaming in the streets to voice my displeasure.

Oh,and the Nassau County Cops? we gave them hell,lol (As bored suburban teenagers will) Those shitty Plymouth Fury III's that they drove stood no chance catching the assortment of Novas,Roadrunners,Chargers,Chevelles,Trans-Ams,Mustangs And (Thanks,Baldwin-Motion Chevy) the batch of Motion Big Block Vegas that our car club drove. And we knew the roads better than they did!

Street Racing is Bad M'kay? LOL

And yes Hamburger Choo-Choo was a fave munchie spot!

[proudohioan]

202. OMG, I used to live in Huntington...

Remember the Hamburger Choo Choo?

[orion007]

204. Hamburger Choo Choo, I can still smell the burgers cooking

and those perfectly sliced onions,great french fries and choc. shakes, and the famous train.
Huntington Village was great, and also loved East Northport, bth had good bars and food.
It was so sad when it was lost to a fire.
Oyster Bay and Teddy Roosevelts's Sagamore Hill and the Planting Fields, the best Lemon Italian Ice.
Route 110 in Melville, used to hang out at the Walt Whitman Mall, and went to WWHS.
Adventure Land and Lollipop Farm when I was real little.
The North Shore was beautiful, we had all those beaches, especially Crescent Beach, and we would take our boat out to Duck Island and party, still have a scar on my thigh from the rusted iron rods that were in the collapsed cement foundation.
Those were the days when many of the boys were allowed to take out the family boats.
I miss Robert Moses the most, the sand dunes,the waves,the sun and the salt water.
Every weekend we all left Huntington in a caravan and headed to the ocean,and had the best of times.
Here In VT there's ponds and rivers, and I can't stand swimming in them, and what makes it worse is there's hardly any built in pools, which many homes had back on LI.
Choo-Choo

[EmeraldCityGrl]

158. This another example of burdening people with debt.

If the homeless ever get on their feet, their wages will be garnished to pay back fines.

Municipalities are using some pretty sleazy tactics to generate revenue.

At the very least there should be shelters or large tents with cots and heaters

to accommodate people during the night.

[bobbolink]

212. There are ALREADY shelters. Would you like your mother wintering in a TENT?

We keep trying to get across to everyone that LOW-INCOME HOUSING is what is needed.

What can I say that can get that across?

Is there ANYTHING that will dislodge "shelter" from peoples' minds?

[Trillo]

162. I reckon it's a class war.

Distilled down to that, it's not "complex" at all.

[maryf]

165. morning kick

Hope some folks got to sleep...All we are asking, is give sleep a chance...

[PJPhreak]

166. Just another kickkity nt

[RedRocco]

167. bump

[happy_liberal]

201. and another

:kick:

[RedRocco]

264. bump to keep this visible

[bobbolink]

282. Thank you so much..... we need to remember what these people are going through!

Thanks!

[bobbolink]

214. "All we are asking, is give sleep a chance"

You know, that really is brilliant! (Yes, I know its from the video)

Its brilliant because its universal where homelessness is concerned.

Homeless people ANYWHWERE, do not get enough sleep.

Anyone who thinks that people can get good sleep in a shelter need to try it.

[Javaman]

170. Welcome to the new Serf class...

1) you had a house but lost it because you lost your job

2) your unemployment runs out

3) your wife leaves you

4) corporations get huge bailouts

5) your "help" from the government is locked up, for some reason that no one in that same government can explain.

6) you try to find a job. There are none to be had.

7) you sell the last of your possessions.

8) you hadn't a meal for the last 2 days

9) you beg for money but can't get enough because other homeless on that same corner spread the change thin.

10) you sleep in a small area in an underpass.

11) you haven't showered or bathed in days. you have no clean clothes.

12) depression grips you like a vice

13) what change you do get, you spend on cheap bad food or alcohol to blur the misery.

14) police pick you up and fine you.

15) you have no money to pay the fine

16) you go to prison.

17) you get a meal, and a shower

18) public assistance tells you there are no more funds to help.

19) you serve your time and are released

20) you start again from point #8

[Javaman]

171. Once upon a time in this nation there was a voice for the people...

it was called the Democratic party.

what we have now are two party's that are only mildly different.

so as a result, we no longer have a voice.

who fights for us? who is our mouth piece on the federal level? when was the last time, other than "campaign season" have you seen a politician visit the impoverished areas of this nation?

We have the "entertainment tonight" government.

[ChiciB1]

173. This Is An Outrage... I Know Of Places Here In The South That Have

even closed places down for the homeless without a care in the world. I have worked to help those in need, and I live in a state that doesn't get much cold weather and can't IMAGINE what it would be like to be out in the cold!

To those of you who seem so smug, YOU HAVE NO IDEA!! A relative of my daughter's came down to stay with her for a while, but THAT IS NOT THE SOLUTION! You can't even "rent" a place without all kinds of paperwork, verification etc. and to put down those who are homeless is nothing short of HEARTLESS!

It's not as easy as you think to find housing. I agree that in the "Sunshine State" they don't seem to care very much about homeless people. Mostly, they run them out of ANY place the congregate! Or if just several people want to sleep somewhere for the night, the police WILL run them off! I'm not sure if they are fining yet, but they may be. But I DO KNOW that they watch places very closely and rout people out and tell them not to return!

While I'm not rich, or even have a lot of money, where I live is a place that has MANY rich people, and I don't understand why so many look the other way! Kind of like, I got mine... you get yours! It's very appalling!

Funny how they want to fine the homeless and on top of that have a mandate for people to pay for insurance coverage!! America isn't a place I've recognized for so long now! While we give to other countries (and that's good when it's helps) we still spend TRILLIONS of dollars on WARS!

How does this make ANY sense???? And to think that homeless people are that way because the want to be is ludicrous. I DO realize SOME people prefer it that way, but oh so many don't and have found themselves helpless to get out of the deepening pit!

[Greyhound]

175. Going on 200 replies and only 47 recs.

Bobbolink & our other advocates deserve better than they get here.

[bobbolink]

215. Thank you.

We feel like just throwing in the towel so often, but that is exactly what the heartless ones want.

[PJPhreak]

222. To quote someone I really Respect...

Harriett Tubman...

If you hear the dogs, keep going.

If you see the torches in the woods, keep going.

If they're shouting after you, keep going.

Don't ever stop. Keep going.

If you want a taste of freedom, keep going.
--------------------------------------------


NEVER GIVE UP,NEVER GIVE IN,KEEP PUSHING HARD!!!

[Buddyblazon]

176. I am fifth generation Coloradan....

fourth generation Denverite.

Boulder...sucks. If you want the stereotypical latte sipping conceited liberal...go to Boulder. Every time I'm there the people make me feel "not important enough".

If you want your hard working, big tent liberal...come to Denver.

And I'll straight up call it The People's Republic. A city filled with out of touch snobs.

There...this blue collar, Union supporting liberal said it. I'm as liberal as they come...and not only do I have no desire to live there...I'm bummed when my work draws me to that city.

[timeforpeace]

240. Your Obama caricature is hilarious!

[G_j]

177. to be poor is a crime

to also be homeless, is even a worse offense.

[Yuugal]

178. K&R

[TBF]

179. They don't care at all. They are too busy going for the "win" and

checking their stock holdings.

It's deplorable.

[OregonBi]

182. Isn't Boulder a sanctuary city?

They protect illegals and give them free housing, food, education, and money yet jail homeless American citizens.

This is disturbing!!!


EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN HAS A RIGHT TO FOOD, A HOME, AND CLOTHING AND CAREER TRAINING IF THEY WANT IT!
Regardless of what some right-wing repuke fundie thinks!

[bobbolink]

216. I was told bluntly by one of the latte liberals that immigration was her issue, and she had

NO INTEREST in poverty.

Yes, and she is head of the local "peace" group.

Then some of you wonder why I get so angry with "progressives"!!!!

[OregonBi]

223. oh my fracking god!

She obviously is on the payroll of someone so her response: "illegal immigrants are more important to me than a poor homeless American citizen. Now shut up, vote for me, then go back to your cardboard home under the bridge!"

If I were there and heard that, I would have cut the tires on her BMW and pissed in her gas tank.

[bobbolink]

226. Oh, thank you! ~~laughing myself silly~~

I'm sure glad you are on *my* side!

I'm having enough tire problems as it is.

Really, thanks.....I needed that hearty laugh really badly!

:hug:

[ThomCat]

235. Wow. Anyone who can't see how povery is related to

and interconnected with immigration, and peace, has no credibility heading any kind of a group. :(

[Echo In Light]

188. Puke

[EOTE]

209. K&R, this is sick and sad.

If there's any silver lining that can be taken from this, it's that perhaps some of these people are getting their first (relatively) warm night's rest and perhaps 3 squares in a while. Still, this makes me rather ashamed. This country needs a wholesale reevaluation of its priorities.

[PJPhreak]

213. It was bad back in the 80's

So much so that we (A group of Boulder/Santa Cruz homeless) tried to organize,we tried to get a large group of homeless together to act as a national action group to bring some light to the problem.we were beaten by the fact we had no money,no legal support or the any real support from the community,and the lawmakers (Local,state and federal) wouldn't touch the issue.

One of the other problem we had was Ronnie Raygun's handling of the Mental Hospital Population...Give 'em a SSI Check,Kick 'em out into streets,and close the mental state facility's. Not that these folk ever should have been locked up in these horrible places,but RR never gave these people the support system that they needed...so those folk ended up on the streets. this made the general public think that ALL of us were broken,defective,drug/alcohol addled,or just plain stupid. I may not be the worlds best Typist/Writer,but verbally I am a true Wordsmith,I pride myself on this ability.Its has served me well in years past.

And yes it is a "Class Issue"...NIMBY plain and simple,In cities like Boulder,Austin,Santa Cruz,Cambridge,Eugene,Portland,Seattle,San Francisco,Naples,Tucson,West Palm Beach,Key West Ect. its all about Appearances,Property Values and "Quality of Life".

They Don't want Us Here.

They Just Want Us to go Away.

In their minds we are Garbage...Disposable Human Garbage.

In their minds We are defective.

With this kinda 'Tude we will never get what the homeless really need...A Support System that truly works. it is easier to hand a coupla bucks outta a car window than to take a real stand and do something effective...That costs REAL Money.

I say this Knowing that there a LOT of good folk who do everything that they can to help,its just that the NIMBY's out number the "Helpers" bu 1000 to 1 and with this lack of support fron the Public,Legislature,Lawmakers Et al we will never fix this problem.

[bobbolink]

217. DAMN! I wish I could rec a reply!

Would you please expand this into a thread, and put it in your journal?

TRUTH.

[PJPhreak]

219. Trust and Believe,

I would but my typing/Spelling/Writing skills really suck,it took me almost 15 min to type that last post....I'm a REALLY bad Writer.

I am tho a Verbal Wordsmith,I can get the attention of a whole room,fast. I make it a point to be visible when I walk into a crowd,a coffeehouse, or on the street...One of the skills I made a point to develop when I live on the Streets...I wear Loud Tye-Dye,have long hair,look like the Typical "Greybeard Deadhead".People don't think I know of what I speak till I start opening my mouth,Then Wham,its like hitting a switch,I'm "On"

I also speak not only from experience but This Issue is Personal,Very personal.

This pic tells all...



To allow ANYBODY to live like this is CRIMINAL!!!

[PJPhreak]

221. And to add...

I will keep this kicked till the mods tell me not to...another Kickkity!

[Bluebear]

220. kick

[bobbolink]

227. Thanks!

:hi:

[PJPhreak]

224. Kick

[GreenPartyVoter]

229. Unbelievable! What would follow that? Penalizing them for

daring to freeze to death in a public space?? x(

[happy_liberal]

232. here's a law they will implement soon if they haven't already

Feed Homeless, Face Arrest

Eric Montanez, 21, from the group Food not bombs, was charged with violating a law against feeding homeless people in Orlando Florida. Although this is the most recent publicity, Food not bombs has a long history of being harassed for giving away food to the homeless and protesting anti-homeless laws. Las Vegas passed a law in July 2006 that prohibits providing meals within city parks that would normally be provided for in a rescue mission or shelter. (57.Bill No.2006-37) Orlando followed suit supporting a similar law last summer that makes it illegal to feed more than 25 people at a time without a permit. The law was passed after receiving complaints from residents and businesses and even though many people opposed it, it was passed with the mayor’s approval. The law is supported by many business owners who seem to feel the homeless are an eyesore and not good for business.

http://anti-poverty-activism.suite101.com/article.cfm/feed_homeless_face_arrest

[PJPhreak]

233. kick nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

234. I had heard about that. It's absolutely shameful!! Whatever happened to the generosity of Americans?

[ThomCat]

236. That law is on the books here in NYC

x(

Thankfully, a lot of people ignore it.

When I got my first insurance check I donated money to one guy so he could buy a new stove to keep feeding the homeless. He is well known for feeding up to 100-200 homeless people 6 days per week out of his own pocket. He's a school bus driver, so his pockets aren't very deep. He's been doing this for years out of the back of a truck.

[bobbolink]

238. OMG!!!!! What a lovely man!

Yet, I'm surrounded by those who have so much (and think they are soooooo progressive), who can't be bothered!

I wish you could come here and rub their noses in this story!

[bobbolink]

237. Pretty much.

If I told you what I went through when it was -20 degrees here, and the lack of concern from people who pride themselves on being "progressives",....well, you would probably find it hard to believe.

And, this is an affluent area....so many could be doing so much, but its only those who have nothing themselves who show caring.

THIS is why I am so often angry at "progressives"!

[GreenPartyVoter]

239. Sometimes it's less painful to ignore things. :^( There has to be more we can do.

[bobbolink]

242. I've given up trying to figure out the psychological process behind it all,

but if you can figure it out, I know a lot of homeless people who would be very grateful to you!

"There has to be more we can do."

It's a horrible tangled knot, and we feel trapped any way we turn to try to make changes.

What I'm thinking now is some way to abolish the damned stereotypes.... Since even progressives use them, its obvious that nothing will happen until/unless we can change that.

Well, that's my thought *this* week.

Maybe next week I think of something actually productive.

Ideas?

[GreenPartyVoter]

243. Someone here (maybe you?) suggested forcing Wal*mart to take

all the abandoned stores they leave behind when they move into a Super Center or out of a town, and convert them to shelters or housing units. (I haven't figured out how to deal with the center of the building. No windows there, and everyone deserves windows.)

[bobbolink]

245. Definitely wasn't *me*. That's perfect for .....warehousing people,

and that just sux.

No, we need to get people to understand that PROPER, DECENT housing for everyone is a RIGHT, the same as health care!

I certainly would refuse to live in an asbestos-laden, windowless WAREHOUSE!

[GreenPartyVoter]

249. Seems to me some other nations manage to get housing for everyone. Sweden, maybe? How do they do it?

[bobbolink]

250. compassion.

A sense of all-for-one and one-for-all.

Because people care about each other, rather than picking their few "causes" and forgetting about the rest.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

253. Which all sounds very good in theory

until you get down to it and realize that people end up homeless for a variety of reasons, not all of which can simply be rectified by handing someone a space to live in.

[orion007]

256. Exactly, and until all the different reasons for homelessness

are addressed on a thread like this nothing is accomplished.
It remains mostly ranting and raging.
I've been involved in my community with people who are homeless and sadly it has become a way of life for many.
For those that have underlining issues that they can't or won't address the apartments that many people work on to get them are usually short lived.
Homelessness runs on quite a few tracks simultaneously and yes affordable housing should be available, and to many it is through govt.programs.
The one thing I have seen is that when a person is determined and focuses on the process of getting housing it has worked out for them.
Many times this does involve medical and physiological attention, and here's where they drop out of the system.
Even if beautiful new housing was available dire problems would remain and have to be dealt with.

[bobbolink]

266. And YOU are doing the bulk of the ranting and raving.

Of COURSE it becomes a way of life... there is no way out of it because people like YOU close the doors with your prejudice.

You are looking for reasons to blame the victims, plain and simple.

And *that*, orion, is exactly what the RW is so good at.

Congratulations for learning it from them so well!

May you find yourself in the shoes for a few miles.

[bobbolink]

265. You are SOOOO off base. Your prejudice is showing.

And I know from dealing with people like you that there is no way in hell to get you to listen to reason and reality.

The only way that people like you ever get it is to be shoved into the situation your own self.

Hopefully, sooner rather than later.

Now, get all your hated out and dump on me reaaaaalllllly good.

[Obamanaut]

267. Why, one wonders, would any compassionate person wish bad

things to happen to others?

"The only way that people like you ever get it is to be shoved into the situation your own self.

Hopefully, sooner rather than later."

One would think that progressives would want everyone to rise up out of poverty and despair, rather than wish it upon others. I guess misery does indeed love, and long for, company.

[bobbolink]

272. REad it again. This person I'm replying to HAS no compassion.

This poster is going from thread to thread, saying ugly things about homeless people.

NOW, I repeat what I said.... the only way that people like that ever understand homelessness is to be shoved into the situation themselves.

WHen YOU are homeless, you will understand, too, what this kind of attitude does, and not only how much it hurts, but how it PREVENTS any progress in changing the whole situation.

[Obamanaut]

274. I was making reference to your seeming lack of compassion, for

wishing bad karma not only in this response, but in two others as well. I'll repeat part of my last post for you
----------
"The only way that people like you ever get it is to be shoved into the situation your own self.

Hopefully, sooner rather than later."

One would think that progressives would want everyone to rise up out of poverty and despair, rather than wish it upon others. I guess misery does indeed love, and long for, company.
--------

The section in "..." is yours, wishing bad stuff on another person. A most grievous lack of compassion, don't you think?

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

271. You apparently missed the part where I explained I've already been in that situation

[bobbolink]

273. AS A DRUGGIE.

And you are projecting that onto everyone else who is homeless.

You probably weren't even conscious much of that time, so, no, you don't GET IT.

(Assuming that *is* your real story)

[Obamanaut]

277. Post #273 somehow does not fit in with the spirit and intent of civil

discourse, especially when one considers this journal entry:

My Proposal for CHANGE
Posted by bobbolink in General Discussion
Thu Nov 06th 2008, 04:10 PM

“…Could we change to an atmosphere of respect and cordiality in our dealings with each other, and leave the snide, nasty putdowns to the RW, where they belong?…”

Suggesting that a poster was unconscious a lot of the time due to drug use seems less than cordial.


And if we include the three separate instances (in this thread #12, #265, #266) of wishing fellow DUers would fall on hard times - well, it does give one pause, don't you think?

[tango-tee]

288. Could her responses have been written in the spirit of sheer desperation?

Perhaps there comes a point when cordiality is forgotten, if the writer's situation is dire enough.

[Obamanaut]

292. A dire situation, on an anonymous message board? Telling other

anonymous posters of a desire that they experience poverty, homelessness, or some other misfortune - when it would be just as easy, easier actually because of no keystrokes involved, to ignore or switch to another thread?

[bobbolink]

297. HAHAHAHAHA!!! And you DARE to criticize someone else, a HURTING someone else,

about a lack of compassion?

"anonymous message board".... and therein lies your inhumanity--I'm grateful to you for making it so clear.

While you concider me just a stick of wood, I'm actually a real life person, with real life vulnerability, which many others here are able to see. You, obviously, are NOT, and by admitting this, you are showing more clearly than I ever could just what we homeless people are up against with so many "progressives".

Do you really think you hero, Obama, is PROUD of your heartlessness?

[Obamanaut]

299. How about those wishes that others will fall onto hard times? There

were three such under your screen name in this thread.

In your listing of your 'real life' components, you omitted 'real life negativity'

As for my screen name, I changed it during the 'name change amnesty' whilst engulfed in a feeling of euphoria, and am now leaning toward a belief that I, and others like me, were duped - 'the audacity of dupe.'

[timeforpeace]

241. It's always been a mystery here why Boulder is such a magnet for the poor and homeless.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

246. Moderate climate, close proximity to decent camping, easy access to just about any drug

Those we were the reasons me and my crew stopped through last time, at least.

[bobbolink]

248. Thank you for promoting stereotypes.

A little discrimination is fun, isn't it?

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

251. I'm guessing you've never been homeless nor spent much time around homeless people

I have and can tell you that that's what lured my friends and I to Boulder during our travels. If you find that truth to be inconvenient, that's frankly too bad. Perhaps you're more concerned about being PC than with having an accurate picture of why some are travel to Boulder despite the inhospitality of its police force.

[tango-tee]

289. You guessed incorrectly.

If there is one thing Bobbolink is not, it's PC. She is homeless RIGHT NOW. In winter.

She is a fierce advocate for the poor and homeless, and I plan on joining her and other likeminded folks in trying to bring about change for the better.

[ThomCat]

303. You're claiming that someone who IS homeless

who is friends here with numerous other people who have Been homeless somehow has never been homeless and doesn't spend much time around homeless people?

:wtf:

You're claiming that homeless people have easy access to lots of drugs? With what money?

Unless they were desperately trying to sell their own prescription meds for emergency cash, it's where would this access to drugs come from? I know, as a former homeless person myself, it just doesn't happen.

You find some poor people hanging around using their access to pot to show off how (relatively) rich they are around homeless friend, but that is hardly an abundance of drugs.

You are the one who really doesn't seem to know what you are talking about.

[orion007]

257. I now find it very offensive that you use MLK's beautiful photo

to try and hide behind while attempting to justify your spewing of nasty, bitter and rude comments.
It's become pathetic listening to you.

[bobbolink]

270. Please put me on ignore. You are now stalking me from thread to thread,

with the intention of intimidation.

That is against the rules.

See that red "X"? Hit it, and you will no longer be offended.

[bobbolink]

247. We like to disturb you.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

252. Judging from your other post, I'm guessing there is no "we"

as you've never been in that situation.

[ThomCat]

302. Oh cute. A personal attack.

implying that she always been alone because, why exactly? As if you would know that how?

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

244. I'm curious as to what prompted the increase in citations

Is it due to actual homeless residents of the city? Or traveling kids who have, by choice, made homelessness a part of their lifestyle? Or simply that those with money in Boulder (and there are plenty of those folks, from what I've seen there) think its an eyesore and couldn't care less about peoples' situations?

[havocmom]

254. Trying to make the homeless disappear by legislating against it, is sorta like...

trying to address the millions who can't afford health insurance by legislating that they just buy it.

[PJPhreak]

258. Another Kickitty nt

[TheKentuckian]

260. I read about the callus systemic disregard for people and it hurts

but reading the hardhearted casting off of people in the worst and most crushing situations from folks that are supposed to have some fucking values and it makes me bawl my eyes out.

What the hell is wrong with some of you people, who's side are you really on. If you can't feel something for bobbo and people hurting and desperate like that then how the fuck do you face yourself in the mirror?

I reckon a little life experience and hard times would change some tunes and quick.

Even for a big guy that can handle himself even sleeping in a car can be scary, lonely, and depressing. A few nights in the dead of winter worrying til sunrise about being harassed or dealing with cops would be a good lesson for quite a few on high horses.

All my love bobbo, don't you ever give up. People are thinking of you that don't even know you.

[PJPhreak]

261. "I reckon a little life experience and hard times would change some tunes and quick".

During my years of homelessness one of the ideas that came up was that everyone should be homeless. Kinda like national service,make it mandatory for ALL American Adults to spend six weeks Homeless

Take away their I.D.

Freeze Their bank Accounts.

Give them just the most basic of camping gear.

Put them in a strange city,far from home.

Make them try to figure out how to survive from day to day,from moment to moment.With as few tools as possible.

Now in reality this would not work as people would take care of them knowing that this was only temporary.

But it might open a few eyes.

[happy_liberal]

268. That sounds like a good 'reality series' idea

That would make some interesting(and hopefully compassion inducing) TV...

[bobbolink]

283. I think its a good idea. I did something similar with clergy for a very limited time.

For one night and one day (Fridy night and all day Saturday), I put them on the street with a homeless "guide", and then went to the places that person did to get food, find a toilet, etc. I had even taken away their clergy garb, and they had a table of castoff clothes to choose from. The director of the Council Of Churches decided that he really wanted to go out under a bridge, and I had someone I could trust as a guide for that.

I went to two of the sermons that Sunday that were based on this experience, and even though it was so short, it *was* an eye-opener.

Europeans, arguably, treat each other much better because of what they went throughh in the second world war. Maybe some of that could be done artificially, as you suggest.

[RedCloud]

263. And it makes the Unites Corporations of America look like it doesn't care!

Sneak them over to Haiti. All the the corporations and the conservative judges who turned them into people. Now, let's call the homeless non-persons and be done with it!

[rivercat]

269. kick

n/t

[Haole Girl]

275. Very sad

:-(

[laylah]

276. Kickin' for a VERY

important issue! Be well, Bobbolink :hug:

[PJPhreak]

280. and another kickkity nt

[greytdemocrat]

281. Boulder has something in common with Sarasota, FL

They both can't stand homeless people.

[Obamanaut]

293. Link to list of Boulder resources.

http://www.bouldershelter.org/programs.resources.html

There may be others

[Kievan Rus]

290. It's a crime to be poor. Greed Uber Alles.

[bobbolink]

298. And a capitol crime to be homeless.

Cops are killing homeless people on the streets of more and more cities.

Great sport, that hunting.

[PJPhreak]

300. Now This is what I'm talking About...

This just blew me away...
http://www.parade.com/news/2010/01/17-why-we-gave-away-our-home.html

Got this from another thread here.

If most people in the U.S. did HALF as much,Hell a fifth as much as these folk...

[ChairmanAgnostic]

296. lemonade time:

from lemons, that is.

except for that pesky problem of involuntary confinement, there are some plusses.

One, a warm place to sleep, in the middle of winter. 3 squares. access to medical diagnosis, even treatment.
Those things can save a life. Now, if only they got rid of the lemon, the involuntary confinement, everything else would be just peachy. Lemon scented.

I hope people never forget that the vast majority of homeless are US veterans, many with physical and mental damage. They served our nation, they protected us, and we ignore their broken bodies and minds, and force them to live on the streets. Not our finest hour, to be sure.

There is a place on dKos, IGTNT, that I go and lurk at. There are many families whose loss is permanent, and their loved ones are honored there. A sad, respectful place.

[PJPhreak]

306. Just another quick kickkity nt

[Quantess]

307. I guess it's time to finally hide this thread.

It's getting tiresome to constantly see it on the 1st page.

[TheKentuckian]

308. Sorry the plight of the homeless and the effects of poverty are a problem for you

Doing the easy thing like society and hit "hide", huh?

[PJPhreak]

309. + Eleventy seven billion! nt