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I fear we are still doing the same things Dean warned about in 2004.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 10:50 PM
Original message
I fear we are still doing the same things Dean warned about in 2004.
This is not about Coakley or MA, it is about the reactions I have seen this week from major Democratic leaders. It is the mindset that if we just act a little bit more like the other party we will convince them to vote for us.

It is a mindset that is geared toward taking the party hard right, and expecting us to not to argue about it.

Howard Dean must be cringing a lot lately.

His words from Fall 2004 in You Have the Power:

He speaks of having worked with George Bush as a governor, and he saw the moderate side of him. Then he points out the things Bush was doing to the country...and further points out that the Democrats enabled his agenda.

The sheer stupidity of much of what came out of the White House surprised me, because I knew firsthand that George W. Bush was not, by any means, a stupid man.

I doubted that he'd really changed his views. It seemed unlikely that he'd gone, in a matter of months, from moderation to the far side of the dark side of the American political spectrum. No — I concluded that once he'd gotten into the Oval Office, he'd become so disconnected from ordinary people and the details of their lives that he'd let the Republican Party's ideology get the better of him. He was missing the fine points of how that ideology affected ordinary people because he just didn't care about the details.

He painted the broad strokes of his policies and then left the details to Congress or the political hacks in his administration. Letting the chips fall where they might for millions of children. And sick people. And elderly Americans.


We should make sure our party does not do that.

That lack of caring, that shrugging off of the details of ordinary Americans' lives, was every bit as enraging to me as purposeful, hateful extremism. It seemed to me, in some ways, even worse. It was callous and opportunistic. And it showed a willingness to put real people — real, ordinary Americans — in jeopardy.

Even more infuriating was the way my fellow Democrats went along for the ride, voting so much of the time to advance the president's perilous agenda. They approved his tax cuts, the Medicare prescription-drug act, the war resolution, and educational "reforms" — all destructive measures that wouldn't have passed without their support.

The Democrats were acting as though Bush had been elected with a 5 million-vote plurality and not, as was the case, with 500,000 fewer popular votes than Al Gore. They weren't acting like an opposition party. They barely stood up to the president. When he asked for his unaffordable and immoral $1.6 trillion in tax cuts, they lay down and died.


One-point-six trillion? they protested. Oh, no. Make it $1.25 trillion. And not a penny more.

The Democrats were sweet-talked, they were bamboozled, and they were afraid. They thought that by accommodating the administration, they were somehow going to be okay. In doing so, they helped the Republican Party pass its far-right-wing agenda.

I thought: Our people have to start acting like Democrats again.


I notice a tendency now to discourage anyone from pointing out that there is a danger in too much bipartisanship....that there is harm in trying so hard to negotiate with those who are extremists.

There is a fear now at forums to be too outspoken on issues that bear strongly on our daily lives. That is not a good thing.

I find myself being very cautious in my posts now, trying to not let too much outrage show about the selling out of education, about the fact that our own party is talking of privatizing Social Security by calling it something else.

I feel like we are afraid to act like we have the power to change things. That is not good.



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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. The DLC has made it their mission to do the opposite of whatever Howard Dean says
Because they know he's absolutely right, and a strong actual Democratic agenda is the LAST thing they want to see. Which is why we have Holy Joe, Evan Bayh, Lanny Davis, and certain DLC shills right here at DU advocating the same old stupid "move a little bit more to the right" song and dance.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I have noticed that.
It's a real phenomenon. It's puzzling why they think they must do that.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
49. It's puzzling why the group devoted to destroying democracy (by destroying the Democratic Party)...
...would oppose the guy with the right answers?

Really?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh, BTW, here is the poll Dean mentioned as Tweety filibustered him so stupidly.
From DFA:

Last night, Democrats lost Ted Kennedy's Senate seat in a bitter special election. This is already a sad day for all of us who loved Ted Kennedy. But to make it even worse, conservative Democrats and Washington talking heads are claiming that the loss happened because Congress was "too far to the left."

They're wrong again -- and we can prove it.

We had Research 2000 poll voters immediately after the Election ended: Even Scott Brown voters want Democrats to be bolder and they want healthcare reform that includes a public option.

You read that right. By a margin of three-to-two, former Obama voters who voted for Republican Scott Brown yesterday said the Senate healthcare bill "doesn't go far enough." Six-to-one Obama voters who stayed home agreed. And to top it off, 80% of all voters still want the choice of a public option in the bill.

The message is clear, there is only one way out of this mess if Democrats want to win in 2010. It's time to pass healthcare with 51 votes in the Senate using the budget reconciliation process. And it must include the most popular piece of bold reform: the choice of a public option.

Budget reconciliation is a procedure that only requires 51 votes to pass a bill instead of 60 -- and with the loss of Kennedy's seat, it's the only option Democrats have to improve the bill and pass a public option.

Sure, Joe Lieberman and the rest of the conservative Democrats and blowhard talking heads who got us into this mess will keep claiming Democrats need to be more like Republicans. That's what conservative Democrats always say while working to destroy bold reforms.

Don't let Democratic politicians learn exactly the wrong lesson, tell them take control and lead. We need Ted Kennedy's leadership; we need a new FDR -- not an entire party of Joe Liebermans.

This joint campaign with the members of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee and CREDO Action shows the path to victory in 2010.

It's up to us to make sure Democrats get the message. After you sign, ask your friends to sign. The more signatures we collect and deliver -- and the faster we do it -- the greater our chances of saving Democrats from themselves.

Thank you for never giving up and fighting for what's right. Thank you for everything you do.

-Jim

Jim Dean, Chair
Democracy for America


I guess word came down from on high to Tweety to make sure Dean got no chance to mention it.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hell, we're doing the same things we did in '94.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yes, the same. Remember the words of Simon Rosenberg.
Ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

"Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Sums up the DLC rather nicely, doesn't it?
"Ideologically freed" indeed. :puke:
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. "...to help them lessen their reliance
on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party..." That's because rethugs had set about destroying unions - the traditional source for campaign contributions. With unions marginalized, the rethugs set their sights on the next traditional group - Attorneys. They have been trying to sell tort 'reform' ever since.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. "traditional interest groups"
Yeah, like the American people.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. "I thought: Our people have to start acting like Democrats again."
Love Dean
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-20-10 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. 'Our people have to start acting like Democrats again.' - the DLC doesn't agree.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
44. They definitely do not agree.
You are right.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
9. "left the details to Congress or the political hacks in his administration"
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. I remember when....
rank and file DLCers told me I was a lunatic and a divider for agreeing with Deans sentiments in this thread.

I would gloat about being vindicated, but this isn't about my ego. It's about how my party is so happily sauntering down the same road it did in 1994, seemingly ignorant of the potholes it should recognize.
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LHB Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Divisive?
Anytime somebody criticizes you for saying something that is "divisive" run as if from the plague. The Truth will always win out in the end.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. Welcome to the fun house (nt)
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. K & R hey Mad when you get a chance checkout this video please!
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. +1000 this gave me chills.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. wait til you check this out,tons of info from Thom
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
30. Great video. He covers ALL of it...
perfectly.:wow:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
34. Thanks for sharing that.
Very powerful.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
35. That was powerful .
Thanks for sharing.
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Maghetti Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
17. Deam for president!
Howard Dean is one of the most trustworthy and competent politicians, and he is definitely correct about this.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Dean was and is a loose cannon, which is why he is not now President.
And why he was not his Party's nominee.

Ordinary Democrats just didn't trust the man. And no matter how many years and how many post Madfloridian makes deifying Howard Dean and vilifying everyone else in the Democratic Party, it won't change the fact that Dean couldn't appeal to ordinary Democrats.

And if he couldn't appeal to Democrats, he sure couldn't appeal to Republicans.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. why would he have to appeal to republicans ?
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #19
31. Suzie, spoken just like a Fox host or a Fox guest or make it CNN or CNBC..
Edited on Thu Jan-21-10 10:12 AM by peacetalksforall
If Dean is a loose cannon, there are millions of loose canyons out here.

Rip people off on their health.

Rip people off of their promised rights -

- RIGHTS TO HAVE A UNION, TO VOTE WITH TRUST, TO NOT HAVE THEIR JOB SHIPPED, TO NOT HAVE TO WATCH THE ANNOUNCEMENTS OF PREDATOR-INVADER THIEVES AND CONTROLLER-COMPTROLLER DICTATORS WHO SIGN CONTRACTS FOR DEATH, WHO INSIST ON CLASS LEVELS OF WEALTH AND POVERTY. Exactly the way the DLC wants it with their fellow Republicans.

HE IS BLUNT, HE IS HONEST - IF THAT IS WHAT A LOOSE CANNON IS - HOORAY FOR LOOSE CANNONS - LOOSE ONES AS AN EXPRESSION OF SPEECH DON"T SIGN CONTRACTS TO MAKE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE POOR AND TAKE AWAY THEIR VOICE AND RIGHTS. TO TAKE AWAY THEIR COUNTRY AND GIVE IT TO THE WEALTHY. There are some of us who will never believe their crap positions.

Why don't you just say what rights YOU think we should have.

Or should I just go along to get along with the DLC who has always gone along with the rip off artist Republicans who let the real loose cannon abortion hating tea bagging-birthers people and help they spread hate for the world and our government with the help of Republican networks and papers - all the things that prove that control is established and functioning and has been for decades - in a time period that parallels the existence of the DLC.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. I know that people on DU hate that there's such a thing as the real world, where
things like votes actually matter.

And I'm no Fox host nor a 101st keyboarder, just an ordinary Democrat who traveled with other ordinary Democrats to hear Governor Dean speak. I was surprised that many of the people who were big Dean supporters changed to another candidate when they saw Dean in person.

I've also been surprised at the number of other ordinary Democrats that I've listened to since then who just didn't like Howard Dean, were scared of him. None of these people of either group were Fox hosts, or Republicans or Conservative Democrats.

The original group that became disenchanted with Dean did so before Iowa, so they weren't overly influenced by the media.

I was a Dean supporter and have continued to be impressed with him and frankly, never really understood why others seemed not very positive about him.

But, listening to him recently, as he's talked about health care, backtracked about the health care bill, made more predictions about health care--it's finally come home to me that he's a loose cannon and the ordinary Democrat recognizes that.

However, if you think trashing ordinary lifelong Democrats who are quite liberal, then maybe in your view Gov. Dean is forever the best candidate, because the rest of the Democrats who would vote for him don't matter. I've never found that to be a good way to win elections, but hey, maybe those of you who want to call every Democrat who doesn't agree with you a Republican have stumbled on some new strategy for getting votes and getting candidates elected.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. I apologize. I think I have a problem - not you. I am so tired of coming on DU
Edited on Thu Jan-21-10 12:06 PM by peacetalksforall
to fight trolls who drop one liners with derogatory name calling. A loose canon is not name calling. But it reflects my feeling of hopelessness.

I am dis-spiritied about my reactions to the news coming from this administration. I don't know if I should wait longer to see what is unraveling from Obama and then I listen to Sec Clinton continue to make the disparaging remarks about certain Central American leaders that is not different in tone and content than Cheney and who evidently told Aristide to stay in his new country that we 'provided' for him.

I had just been looking at our kids walking around Haiti with pounds and pounds of gear and all skin on their body covered except their faces carrying guns so heavy that they have tripods to rest them on. I consider the DLC the most milquetoast and accomodating entity that the Democrats could have ever had come happen to them. And I just learned that Debbie Wasserman-Schultz of the DLC and the Florida debacle and (who I believe is) a Republican lite voter, is now running some of the DNC. I am exhausted with the party to a point that goes beyond dis-spirited.

Again, I'm sorry for jumping all over you.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. Thanks.
Edited on Fri Jan-22-10 06:51 PM by suzie
I don't really know that much about Wassserman-Schultz, but I've heard her speak and she seems to have put the primary season behind her and moved on.

And I'll not speak ill of a woman who is a survivor of a bunch of cancer surgeries.

Not criticizing you, but if she has that kind of fight in her, perhaps she's a good one to fight for electing Democrats.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. DId I misspeak?
I should have said, if he couldn't appeal to Democrats, he sure couldn't appeal to Independents and Republicans.

So where would his votes to be president come from?

I thought that in elections you had to get more votes than the other side. Was I not paying attention and that changed?
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
46. I'm fairly certain you're "projecting" there, Suzie. (NT)
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. Dean is wrong there, egregiously so
"Even more infuriating was the way my fellow Democrats went along for the ride, voting so much of the time to advance the president's perilous agenda."

Most Democrats did not, but why let the truth get in the way of some bashing of the party?

"They approved his tax cuts, the Medicare prescription-drug act, the war resolution, and educational "reforms" — all destructive measures that wouldn't have passed without their support."

"They" meaning who? Five or six Democratic Senators? (Yes 22 for the IWR, but not a majority in the House.) As for whether the measures would have passed without Democratic support, Republicans controlled the House until 2006 and controlled the Senate when the tax cuts and the medicare bill passed. True, Democrats could have theoretically fillibustered those measures, but who can expect them to fillibuster a tax cut? Somebody with no idea how badly that would play in the electorate.

In fact, what happened in 2002? Did voters get enraged about the destructive Bush tax cuts and vote a bunch of Republicans out of office? No, in fact, they went the other way and Republicans gained a seat in the Senate. Jean Carnahan lost in Missouri in spite of campaigning that she voted for the Bush tax cut. Dennis Moore of Kansas campaigned the same way, and won. Neither of their 'yes' votes really mattered since the bill was gonna pass anyway. Moore voted for the Democratic versions which got defeated by Republicans.

Same thing about the Iraq War Resolution. Did Republicans get voted out of office because of it? No, only Carnahan got voted out and then Wellstone died and Mondale got defeated. Voters were apparently so happy with the war that Republicans picked up four more Senate seats in 2004. And Dean thinks that the Democrats should have fillibustered the IWR?

Dean also gived Bush too much credit. I think Bush definitely had the hateful extremism. The evil of his policies was not due to just neglect of details.

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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. After 9-11 most dems were on board as I remember it. nt
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
41. for a fairly short time, yes
Everyone but Feingold voted for the patriot act. But by October 2002, there was some resistance to the Iraq war. Not near enough and I was one of the people working to make Hillary pay for her pro-war vote in this last primary, but enough so that a majority of House Democrats, lead by the inestimable Dennis Kucinich, voted against the IWR, and so did a number of Senators. The ex-racist Robert Byrd was exemplary in fighting against the Iraq war and I think Kennedy thundered some too.

But yes, I was sickened by Daschle standing next to Lott while he chortled 'there is no opposition party'.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. When one bashes the blue dogs and the DINO's, one isnt "basing the party".
The Democratic Party has allowed refugees from the old republican party into our tent. They are who needs bashing. Just because they call themselves Democrats doesnt make them Democrats. When people like Arlen Specter changes the R behind his name to a D, doesnt make him immune to "bashing".

I dont want DINO's in the party.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. uh, yes one does
When one says "my fellow Democrats" it sounds like all of them.

"Even more infuriating was the way my fellow Democrats went along for the ride, voting so much of the time to advance the president's perilous agenda."

Most Democrats did not, but why let the truth get in the way of some bashing of the party?

"They approved his tax cuts, the Medicare prescription-drug act, the war resolution, and educational "reforms" — all destructive measures that wouldn't have passed without their support."


"my fellow Democrats" not "some" of them, Dean makeds it sound like all or most of them.

You don't want DINOs in the party. Bully for you. Let's get rid of Specter, absolutely. Let's get rid of Lieberman. Sure. But we need to replace both of them with a Lamont and not with a Brown. You want to kick Lieberman, Specter, DiFi, Bayh, the Nelson twins, Tim Johnson, Kohl and Baucus out of the caucus? Awesome, now we have 50 votes in the Senate. I am sure we will get more done. Provided the Senate is moved to LFL - liberal fantasy land where 50 > 59.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. They were not speaking out against it as a party. Thusly they "went along"
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. seems like the Republicans didn't think so
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. So you like the numbers? 59-41 make you happy. Even with 60 we got shit. I say run Lieberman out
of town on a rail and deal with the consequences. I am tired of the party ko-towing to the blue fucking dogs. Kick them out and deal with it.
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Vermontgrown Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
21. The Coakley
campaign was run by a person that took her eyes off the ball. Watching her on TV and hereing around what happened, ones sees a pattern with Coakley that looked like someone defeated from the get go. Sure her early polling numbers were good, then she started slipping and did nothing to stop it. She was simply beaten by a better campaign manager. If the dems are going to beat the repukes they're going to have to fight like hell in every single race. And, the media needs to stop analyzing, when they do that they usually make it worse, mostly for the dems. Most media people are republicans, even media people you wouldn't expect.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. "....fight like hell in every single race."
Where did I hear that before? Didn't that Dean guy say something like that?
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
23. Can Social Security and Medicare be Far Behind
If this trash of a health care bill passes. Our own Democratic Party is selling us down the road.

I have long thought we spend too much time demonizing the Republicans - it's our own party that has thrown us under the bus.
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
25. He is still right, and he is still my hero!
:patriot: When will this country learn who is on the people's side and who is working against them??
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
26. Dean 2012!
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ChoppinBroccoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
27. I'm A Reborn Deaniac
I was a very ardent supporter of Howard Dean back in 2004, and I was very disappointed when he didn't win. I was told his policies were too radical and that he ruffled too many feathers to ever be President. I accepted that and whole-heartedly supported him and his 50 State Strategy as leader of the DNC. That paid off wonderfully. And ever since he's been gone from the DNC Chair, I've found myself agreeing with him more and more, and wondering more and more often just how much better his policies would be than the mealy-mouthed, watered down crap we're getting from the Democrats these days. I, for one, think Howard Dean needs to be back in a position of power, either on the White House Staff or in the Congress somewhere, or at the very least, leading the DNC again. I've spent 6 years trying to suppress my inner Deaniac, but it just keeps roaring back to life.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Yes! It has taken about 24 hours for me to see what I should have seen all along.
When Dems act like Repubs they lose. It is a senseless waste of time, money and energy. I have freed my own "inner Deaniac" after the MA debacle and I feel a lot better.

What we have lost, we needed to lose. What we can stand to gain now is far better, now that we have seen this huge tsunami from the people we say we can better serve. They have just told us something and we'd better listen.

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JetCityLiberal Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
48. Great post.
'mealy mouth watered down crap' yep, ChoppinBroccoli gets it.

Paul

Great informative thread as usual madfloridian.
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tilsammans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
28. K&R!
:patriot:
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
36. K&R. Hope that kissing up to the GOP doesn't mean golly, we can agree on Entitlements!
That scares me. The "New Democrats" (which was already old back in the 90's) may decide that hey, golly, we can get GOP to vote with us on cutting entitlements-- some rich folks get social security! We could cut that!

And ignore the elephant in the living room-- the giant privatized entitlements the Big Finance Bailouts represented.

Don't go slashing Medicare and Social Security without taxing Big Finance and multimillionaires first.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
47. K&R
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