Not Possible to OVERSTATE how Bad the SCOTUS decision is

[Krashkopf]

It is NOT possible to OVERSTATE how bad the SCOTUS' decision in the "Citizens' United" case is. It is NOT an exaggeration to say that DEMOCRACY died today. It is NOT over-the-top, overheated, rhetoric to say that we have ceased to be a Democracy (or a "democratic republic," as the righties like to say), but that, instead, we have officially become a FASCIST state. Remember, Mussolini, who coined the term said that Fascism is the merger of the power of the corporations and the state. That is EXACTLY what happened, today.

Here is the LINE I draw in the sand. From this day foward, I will NOT support ANY political party, and I will NOT support ANY candidate, for ANY office, unless they STRONGLY SUPPORT a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT stripping the corporations of "corporate personhood."

Period.

[villager]

1. You might want to limit your economic support of corporations while you're at it, too

To whatever degree you can. Seriously.

Beginning today.

[Krashkopf]

2. I have.

[villager]

4. Me, too. We all need to. In a way, economic resistance is as important -- more? -- than voting

n/t

[Winterblues]

11. You do understand that the great majority of all Mom and Pop businesses are Incorporated.

The great majority of ALL business in America is either LLC or INC. The numbers of sole proprietorships are dwindling annually.

[Trillo]

32. Is an incorporated "mom and pop" biz truly a "mom and pop" biz?

It's a question I've wondered about for some time. Is an incorporated "mom & pop" biz a variation or analogue of astroturf?

[Winterblues]

36. My business is incorporated and I have six employees

I would hope people don't boycott me because of being Incorporated. I incorporated the business for both liability and financial concerns..

[laughingliberal]

39. And I would support limits on how much your corporation can donate for political campaigns

Although, I doubt the threat to democracy this decision represents will be from the corporations of which you speak. I believe we all have a good idea of what types of companies we need to withhold our business from.

[tomp]

44. no corporation should be able to contribute anything, period. nt

[csziggy]

43. Yes, incorporation is just a way of separating personal assets and business risk

Aside from other considerations. Depending on individual circumstances and the type of business, incorporating is often a way to manage risk. I've been a participant in several corporations, but my primary business was not incorporated since there were advantages in having it be a sole proprietorship rather than a different business entity.

At one point for several years hubby and I did have a "mom and pop" store that was incorporated for a number of reasons. For one thing, when it came time to close it, there were significant tax advantages.

Most small contractors are incorporated or in LLCs - "limited liability corporations" - mostly to restrict liability for lawsuit to the company and to keep any lawsuits from taking their personal property. Because of this limitation, the corporate entity can make it easier to get insurance for the business - not health, but liability, unemployment and workman's comp.

As with all things like this, if you start a business, get professional advice for your specific situation. I consulted attorneys and accountants for my business needs. For some of the corporations, the people who set them up also used estate and/or tax attorneys, though most "mom & pop" businesses will not need them.

I am NOT an attorney or accountant.

[laughingliberal]

38. So, you support the decision? nt

[tonysam]

3. It's INSANE to call "money" "speech."

The Roberts court has been inventing arguments out of whole cloth, going even farther than that stupid Buckley v. Valeo decision which REALLY fucked up American politics.

[Blue Meany]

5. It is as logical to say that assisination = speech as money

= speech. They are both anti-democratic means shaping the political debate.

[kudzu22]

25. I think you have to be careful

when you say it's ok to limit spending money on a constitutional right. Would it be ok for a GOP-led Congress to ban spending money on abortions? I think not. The real question is do corporations or other organizations have constitutional rights. It may be a crap decision but let's keep the focus on the real question.

[Mojambo]

6. Today is far more depressing than Tuesday.

This is bad. Very bad.

[MuseRider]

7. How will we ever even know

who is fighting for us? TV? Newspapers? Any media? All owned by the new mega citizens of this country who want who will benefit them. It is gonna take a lot of resistance for a lot of years.

We are now hitting the ledge just above the bottom. I only say that because as bad as I think things are they seem to always be able to get worse.

[Krashkopf]

8. I just joined "Free Speech for People" Here is their link -

http://www.freespeechforpeople.org

[krabigirl]

34. thanks for the link. I just joined too.

[mzmolly]

9. And not supporting a political party is smart because....

:eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. The party doesn't represent my best interests

Seems obvious enough. :eyes:

[mzmolly]

13. Ahh. Your best interests.

The "all about me" thing that I thought was reserved for Republicans. Gotcha. I don't vote for the best interests of my fellow countrymen and women.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. My best interests include what is best for the citizens

Like health care for all and an end to war. And I will support parties and politicians who have that same agenda.

Nice try but FAIL on your part.

[mzmolly]

17. Health care? People here are celebrating its demise.

In their "best interests" presumably.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Not the demise of health care; the demise of the crap legislation

[Lance_Boyle]

19. Why would I want to be beholden to a political party?

I've been registered "unaffiliated" since I was 18. I can vote in either major party's primary (but not both), or I can vote in a minor party's primary. I can vote for whoever suits me best when the general election rolls around. What is the advantage in supporting a party? Both majors are sleazy as they can be, and neither one looks out for me. :shrug:

[mzmolly]

21. It's not a matter of party, it's a matter of realizing the different ideals

and how they impact Americans. Today's SCOTUS ruling is one very grave example of why it mattered in Bush v. Gore, Bush v. Kerry and in McCain v. Obama.

[Krashkopf]

26. Because this is THE most important issue facing America BAR NONE . . .

And unless a Party is going to work to Amend the Constitution to undue what has been done, NOTHING ELSE matters.

As I said, it is NOT POSSIBLE to overstate how bad this decision is. It is, quite literally, the DEATH of small "d" democracy. We are now, literally, actually,living in under FASCISM.

If a party is NOT going to work to give us back "one man, one vote" I do not want to be a part of it.

That's why.

[krabigirl]

35. agreed..and most people do not care.

[Krashkopf]

40. Then we have to talk to them, so that they will care . . .

This is an existential crisis. It is too important not to try.

[havocmom]

45. It's not that most don't care. More like most can't bear to think on the realities of it all

Most people lack the courage to really see.

[benld74]

10. They JUST extended FREE SPEECH to NON HUMANS -No biggie Right?

[Tailormyst]

14. I honestly am in shock.

I don't know how our country can ever recover from this. The wealthiest companies and people were just handed the keys to the country. We will no longer have a say. It's like watching Idiocracy becoming reality.

[earth mom]

16. Everyone should have taken that stand back a long time ago and now all that's left is pitchforks

but most people are too weighed down with obligations, debt and fear to fight like that.

Time to think totally outside the box, people.

[joeybee12]

18. Agreed...this is reprehensible on so many levels...n/t

[Egnever]

20. Will it really matter?

Our media is doing the job on a daily basis under the cover of "Journalism". Hard to see how a few comercials is going to make a big difference when stacked against the constant drumbeat of our wholey corporate owned media.

How many times have pukes in the last year been alowed to state unchalenged that the public was against health care reform despite damn near every single poll on the subject stating the exact oposite. Till we fix that problem I doubt some comercials will make that big a difference.

[robinlynne]

41. some commercials? no. unlimited campaign financing by corporations.

[Krashkopf]

48. This is not just "some commercials"

This is about corporations - including huge multi-national (i.e. non-American)corporations - being given the "right" to come into a Congressional election (or a presidential election), and with one massive check, match, or surpass, every dollar donated to a popular grass-roots candidate that they don't like.

The level playing field has just been tilted 90% agaisnt us.

You don't need to be a historian, or a constitutional scholar, to know that that is not the "one man, one vote" idea that the founders had mind.

[mzmolly]

22. Your "not support any party" philosophy gave us Bush's supreme court

nominees, which led to the decision we're grappling with today. I hope you'll consider that for a moment.

[indepat]

23. Not possible to overstate just how corrupt the SCOTUS decision is

:grr:

[Blue_Tires]

24. k+r

[Igel]

27. Yes, it is.

It overturned a law whose implementation, apparently, was a sine qua non for the creation of democracy in this country. That's what you're saying. If revoking that provision kills democracy, how could it ever have started before that law? We're now a fascist state, just as we must have been before.

The law went into effect in November 2002.

Before 2002 we had no democracy in this country, just fascist dictators. That Clinton, Carter, and even John Kennedy were fascists?

Is that what you really mean?

Congress will find a way to rewrite the law so that it takes effect before this fall's elections to avoid the most egregious excesses. We've been told that zero-tolerance is, as in so many other ways, not tolerable here. At least for now.

[krabigirl]

28. same here...scary times.

[EnviroBat]

29. I can't help but wonder...

There was some talk recently that the Health Care joke of a bill would most likely be ruled un-constitutional, and that as a result of that ruling, it stood an even greater chance of never actually seeing the light of day. The un-constitutional part being that congress could not mandate that citizens be forced to purchase products from private corporations. Now, I wonder why all of the sudden, corporations have just been granted "personhood" status. Is this all some ruse to protect the mandate legislation being proposed in this sham of a HCR bill? My mind is swimming in anger, and not much of anything is making sense.

This country, or what's left of it has been literally stolen from us. If this doesn't start a revolution, then nothing will. They might as well start stringing the trains together, and opening the internment camps. This is a pathetic, fascist nation, and it's becoming one fucking sad place to call home.

[GiveMeFreedom]

30. Hi Krashkopf

I agree. Time to change the constitution or die trying too.

[guitar man]

33. Could there be a silver lining in this?

Perhaps a way to make some lemonade out of the lemon, such as:

Citizens for Marriage Equality Inc.
Citizens for Single Payer Healthcare Inc.
Citizens for a Better Environment Inc.

and so on and so forth

:shrug:

[Blue Owl]

37. If this isn't an omen

Then I don't know what is...

[Odin2005]

42. K&R. Execute corporate personhood! STOP FASCISM.

We must quit thinking it terms of Democrat and Republican, we must think in terms of Pro-Corporatism and Pro-People.

[NBachers]

47. Join Movetoamend.org

A couple of weeks ago, I signed a petition calling for a constiutional amendment to stop corporate personhood. The group was Reclaim Democracy.org, at http://reclaimdemocracy.org/

I stopped by their website today, and they were directing people to http://movetoamend.org/ as part of their reaction to the Supreme Court's ruling.

These are the focus points of people who want to get involved. Check them out.

You can also sign Alan Grayson's petition here. Grayson deserves every bit of support he can get:

http://salsa.mydccc.org/o/30019/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=4

[Quixote1818]

46. Agree. This is "THE" issue now! Everything else comes second. nt