E-mail from National Council for La Raza pushing for immig. reform in a bad economy

[Cant trust em]

Dear Joshua,

Naysayers claim that immigration reform cannot happen in this economy. They claim that the country cannot prioritize immigration when so many economic issues remain unsolved.

But the naysayers are wrong.

In fact, a series of recent studies from both progressive and conservative think tanks show that immigration reform would be a boon to the economy by raising the GDP and boosting American household incomes:

• A report by the Center for American Progress and the Immigration Policy Institute, Raising the Floor for American Workers: The Economic Benefits of Comprehensive Immigration Reform, confirms that the path to economic recovery calls for comprehensive immigration reform that includes a legalization program for the roughly 12 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. According to the study, immigration reform would create $1.5 trillion in added GDP over ten years and newly legalized workers would increase tax revenues by up to $5.4 billion in the first three years.

• A report by the libertarian CATO Institute, Restriction or Legalization? Measuring the Economic Benefits of Immigration Reform, found that legalization would boost the incomes of U.S. households by $180 billion in 2019.

Join the voices pushing for pragmatic reform that would boost our economy. On January 21, 2010, join the National Council of La Raza (NCLR) for the January Action Network Call on Immigration Reform - you will find out how to push for immigration reform that will advance economic recovery, get details on other legislative happenings, and plug into nationwide actions for reform.

NCLR Action Network Call on Immigration Reform: Economic Recovery
Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010
Time: 4:00 p.m. EST/1:00 p.m. PST
Please RSVP for call-in details.
I hope you will join us!
Sincerely,

A. Elena Lacayo
Immigration Field Coordinator

[treestar]

1. Americans never see the economy as a whole when it comes to immigration

They just see a zero sum game. Unemployment rates have to be really low. Even though not every person is qualified for every job - they just see one job, one applicant, and each immigrant as a competitor.

[Hello_Kitty]

2. Yeah, so many jobs Americans aren't "qualified" for.

They just refuse to long hours for low pay under shitty conditions. Luckily "those people" with their "strong work ethic" will. What a coinky-dink. :eyes:

[treestar]

7. What about RNs?

If you don't have one, you can't take the job.

[Hello_Kitty]

8. Well yeah, when you make school expensive as hell for American students

It tends to lead to a situation where you "need" RNs from other countries. Who just so happen to be willing to work longer hours for less money. Again, what a coinky dink.

[Cant trust em]

11. Don't most nurses belong to unions? nt

[Hello_Kitty]

12. I don't if most, but a lot.

Of course, what better way to union-bust than to bring in a workforce from overseas, willing to work for less money, and whose immigration status is tied to their jobs.

[Cant trust em]

16. So then we should close our doors to protect a native workforce?

[Hello_Kitty]

18. Is protecting a native workforce a bad thing? eom

[Cant trust em]

20. It's not a bad thing...

but I don't want to go against what I consider to be part of our national identity, which is to be a nation of immigrants. I think that one of the things that has made our country great is our openness to new people and ideas. This is what we were founded on and I don't think we can turn our backs on that heritage.

[Hello_Kitty]

21. I don't think we have to.

Telling corporations "No, you don't have a God given right to the cheapest and most compliant workers you can find" is not a repudiation of the principle that we are a nation of immigrants.

[Cant trust em]

23. I suspect that we agree on a lot of principles...

but there would be some disagreements on details.

[treestar]

27. The problem with that would be there might not be enough nurses, and

that is prejudicial to the patients. I'm not that into Americans as being so superior that I'd be willing to sell out sick people to the cause of higher wages for anyone involved. Because I consider that they make enough to be middle class as it is.

[treestar]

28. The law is that they have to be paid the prevailing wage

End of story. they may be willing to work for less (though once they get here, that would be difficult to imagine. If they could get more, they surely would). But the law does not allow that.

http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/wageinfo.cfm

I have debunked this countless times on DU yet there is continued perpetration of this lie. The DOL works at protecting the job market for Americans and it's slander to claim they don't follow the law and do their job.

[Hello_Kitty]

30. You haven't "debunked" jack crap.

Foreign worker visa programs are rife with fraud and abuse. And employers routinely skirt prevailing wage rules. Furthermore, companies save money on these workers through more than just wages. They don't have provide insurance to their families if they came by themselves. They don't have to pay unemployment insurance either. So GMAFB with this bullcrap sob story about "shortages". Why do corporations say they need 2 million visas over the next 10 years?? Excuse you, but 10 years is ample time to train engineers and nurses here. And now I await your b.s. response on how American kids are inferior to those from other nations.

[treestar]

31. You simply fail to deal with reality

all programs could be rife with fraud and abuse.

I posted a link to the law and the facts.

You have not. Just your emotional take on things.

No one is being harmed by foreign workers.

No employer HAS to pay an American the prevailing wage, either, or health insurance. An American who makes a poor deal for himself has no protection.

[Hello_Kitty]

33. Shove your condescension up your ass.

People like you are why liberals come off as elitist and unpatriotic.

[treestar]

25. The school does not have to be that expensive

I went to college and could have gotten an RN had I worked at it and wanted it. I choose to major in English. So I'll never get an RN job.

Many have made such a choice. I can't stand the sight of blood. But if some person from India/China/Wherever can, why not have them here rather than be in the hospital where there is a shortage of RNs?

It is a very tough job and not everyone is cut out for it. We are lucky we brain drain other countries that way.

And their being employed here leads to more employment, since their consumption is done here.

[galileoreloaded]

14. Contrary to popular opinion, there is no nursing shotage. In fact, there is a glut. n/t

[treestar]

26. Yes there is a shortage. And keeping the extra ones out does not raise

wages for American RNs. IMO some people in those professions believe they can make more by keeping themselves in shortage, but that only works to a point and is prejudicial to patients.

[Hello_Kitty]

29. Please provide links to this alleged nurse shortage.

And not ones from obvious pro-outsourcing shills.

[treestar]

32. Like the Department of Labor?

That's a pro-outsourcing shill. :rofl: Look at the laws as stated there. Are you claiming they are blatantly ignored and that the DOL does not do its job?

Quit being afraid of foreigners. They don't come to hurt you. And your government protects you from their hurting the job market for you.

Find someone else to scapegoat. How about the "corporations?"

You are just in need of someone to hate, apparently.

[Hello_Kitty]

34. The DOL gets its numbers from the companies who report them

Of COURSE they're going to tell them they have a shortage.

Find someone else to scapegoat. How about the "corporations?"

Yeah, hon, we know who you worship. You must be positively giddy about the SCOTUS decision.

You are just in need of someone to hate, apparently.

STFU you fake-ass, pious, sanctimonious windbag.

[Hello_Kitty]

3. Don't worry Joshua, you'll get your "comprehensive immigration reform"

Big Bidness and the Chamber of Commerce with their bought off "think tanks" are all over it. Trust me, it won't be long before major low wage employers get all the slaves uh I mean workers with an "innately strong work ethic" that they need.

Here's an example of just how well it will work:

n his testimony, Aby K. Raju recounted the exploitation he and 500 other workers suffered after they were trafficked from India in order to work for Signal International doing welding, pipe-fitting and other work.

Raju said that many workers paid exorbitant fees to the company’s recruiters and then were subjected to intimidation when their documents were seized and they were forced to live in labor camps in Mississippi and Texas.

He said conditions were so harsh that one guestworker attempted suicide. Others were detained and interrogated for speaking out against the conditions in which they were forced to work.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/working/entry/4890/a_victory_for_east-coast_carnival_workers/

I mean, I'm so sure the CATO Institute is deeply concerned with the plight of mistreated guest workers and will do its utmost to ensure that the treatment of workers will be at the forefront of any "comprehensive immigration reform". :eyes:

I await being attacked and called a xenophobe because I object to legalized slavery.

[Cant trust em]

4. Not that I disagree with you, but I do think that something needs to be done

To give people who are already living here some legal status. The path to become a citizen of this country is outdated and ridiculously complicated.

[Hello_Kitty]

5. Yes, that part needs to be addressed. I'm for amnesty.

It's cruel and unjust to make people live in the shadows and it's an atrocity that scum like Joe Arpaio is able to wield terror over them.

However, I predict any "reform" coming out will mostly be a boon to business and do nothing to improve the lives of exploited immigrant workers.

[Cant trust em]

6. I wouldn't quite go the amnesty route, just a more streamlined process.

It shouldn't take years, lawyers and thousands of dollars to become a citizen of this country.

[anonymous171]

9. I want higher wages, not higher profits for corporate fat cats. nt

[Cant trust em]

10. Actually coming from a community economic development perspective in a Latino community...

We hope that immigration reform will allow more people to participate in the mainstream economy and access capital to start their own businesses. They can't do that if they don't have legal status.

[Hello_Kitty]

13. I'm sorry, but that era is over.

I highly recommend the HBO documentary "Schmatta" for an exploration of why that is. Immigrants are no longer a permanent and upwardly mobile class of workers. The successful Latinos you see now are the products of several generations where their forebears worked in unionized jobs where they were paid enough to send their kids to college. That is not the case now, as evidenced by the fact that Mexican immigrants here in Phoenix are increasingly being sent money by their relatives in Mexico rather than the other way around. There isn't work for them here or in Mexico, and though many of have worked here for years, they've never earned enough to be able to save for times of unemployment and forget saving enough to educate their children.

[Cant trust em]

15. Again, not to say that you're wrong, but coming from a practitioners point of view

we help thousands of clients each year start their own businesses and create jobs for the community. This isn't coming from a book I read or a movie I saw, but the day to day work in a Latino community.

[Hello_Kitty]

17. Right but how many of Latinos you help start businesses come straight off the lettuce fields?

Not saying none do but how many? How many come straight from meatpacking or landscaping? What percentage of first generation "unskilled" Latino immigrants in your area are able to earn and save enough to start a business?

(I put quotes around "unskilled" because every job requires skills of some sort.)

[Cant trust em]

19. About 80% of our clients are Low to moderate-income. nt

[Hello_Kitty]

22. That's not what I asked.

I asked what percentage of immigrants working in low wage/low skill jobs are able to make enough to save the money needed to start a business. You can't hold up the success stories and claim it applies to an entire group.

[Cant trust em]

24. Similarly, you can't say that while the process is difficult, it's impossible

and that the dream is unattainable.

I don't know what total percentage of immigrants fit your earnings criteria. What I can tell you is that 80% of our clients are of modest means. We've had success stories working with clients who were initially running push carts and setting up stalls in markets. They became successful enough to move into storefronts. For a lot of these clients, they are working multiple jobs and these businesses supplement that income.

[burning rain]

35. The frankly Randian CATO Institute is a poor coalition partner for any liberal group.

They are all about sink-or-swim and too much cheap labor is never enough for those characters.