Rachel on Andrea Mitchell:

[gateley]

All of the current healthcare proposals depend on the fantasy that some Republican somewhere will come to their senses and vote to support health care reform.

It's been really good politics for them to be the Party of No.

(Andrea said -- then it's dead dead dead because Nancy Pelosi said she can't get her caucus together.)

She's going to have to. She's going to have to get the House to vote on the Senate Bill with the promise that they will get the things they don't like resolved during the Reconciliation process after they've passed the Bill.

Democrats have to decide if they're going to commit political suicide over health reform. If they let it die, they are committing political suicide. They might as well just leave in advance of the 2010 elections and in terms of a second term for President Obama. They can't let it die and the only way to keep it alive is to pass the senate bill.

There's no path forward on health care or anything -- anything at all, on any political issue, that involves a single Republican vote. No way. And it's fantasy to think the Republicans will abandon the Policy of No after it's worked so well for them this year. Democrats are going to have to do it alone and they've got to wake up to that.

___________________________________

Rachel was particularly strident, and last night about the SOCTUS decision, she was more earnest than I've ever seen her. I think her frustration is becoming apparent. We hear ya, Rachel!

[Doctor_J]

1. What Rachel wanted to say

Your husband was to the economy much like the iceberg was to the Titanic

[gateley]

9. Undoubtedly. Earlier in the show Andrea was speaking to other guests

about Bernanke being re-confirmed (is that the right term?) and she made reference to 'in the past.....my .....the Fed', but said she had no inside glimpse into it during this administration.

[Jennicut]

2. Pass it in small parts or pass the Senate bill and then change some things in reconciliation.

Either that or admit the Dems are a total failure.

[jacksonian]

4. new bills need 60

existing bill only House approval. There is no choice.

Pass the Senate bill then change the Cadillac tax in a new reconcilliation bill. Watch Repugs try to vote against that tax cut for working people. They won't. And then we have a better bill.

The only way, nothing is not an option.

[gateley]

5. Exactly - it's the Only. Way. I'm convinced of that now. Nothing is going to

change if we do nothing (dumb statement, but you know what I mean).

[FiveGoodMen]

8. "nothing is not an option"

There are worse things than 'nothing'.

Far worse.

'Not an option' is a horrible excuse to do something bad.

[jacksonian]

12. and the perfect is the enemy of the good

look, people will be helped by this imperfection. Pass it.

[FiveGoodMen]

15. "people will be helped by this imperfection"

That's where we disagree.

I think people will be harmed by it.

Did it help the homeless in certain California cities when their lack of shelter was declared a crime?

This bill's mandate looks pretty similar to that.

[CreekDog]

19. Even the Massachusetts bill has helped people and this is better than that

removing preexisting condition bars, instituting community rating, ending recission, nationally regulating health insurance companies, spending billions for health care clinics, setting up non profit exchanges...in a world with health insurance, these are needed things.

and your plan doesn't get us the assurance of a single one of them as soon as the Senate Bill.

[gateley]

21. I can understand the health mandate (don't like it, but it's all $$$) but I've

never understand how 'they' think making something illegal will stop people from 'committing' the crime. Treating homelessness as a crime is shameful. Again, I can't fathom what the rationale was behind that, what they hoped to accomplish.

Same with drugs. Making them illegal certainly hasn't stopped people from using. :shrug:

We need to HELP those who need it, not punish them! I feel the same way about health care, but I do see their point more easily.

[jacksonian]

22. mandates are irrelevant, like car insurance

it's how it's paid for that counts. That can be fixed, and is within the scope of reconcilliation.

[CreekDog]

17. Nothing will lead to worse things

So it's really one stop shopping for failure in that plan. :D

[CreekDog]

16. Yup

anyone who thinks that starting over is going to get us more is on drugs.

[Captain Hilts]

3. I think we should break it up and vote on the componets. nt

[gateley]

7. Boehner has already said No to that approach. You're making the mistake

of thinking rationally, and that the Republicans might think in kind. But it's not going to happen.

[Captain Hilts]

11. Make them vote 'no' on stopping ins. discrimination, gouging, etc. Call their bluff!!!

[gateley]

14. No problem-o for them. They'll just spin it to make it look like they did the

right thing. Just like the SCOTUS decision. Boehner was just so thrilled that our sacred First Amendment has been defended, and the followers buy that hook, line and sinker. Now, you and I know the Boehner doesn't give a damn about First Amendment rights unless it affects THEM, but there are millions of Republicans who believe that's what this ruling was really about. I don't know how, but I can almost guarantee they would do the same with any issue/vote that benefits them.

[FiveGoodMen]

6. "the only way to keep it alive is to pass the senate bill"

I think it's more harmful to America and to the Democratic Party if they pass a bad bill than nothing at all.

To pass nothing would give the Dems a black eye, but mandates without cost controls is begging for revolution.

[gateley]

10. I agree with Rachel on this one, but I understand the point you're making.

I think, in this political climate (political witch hunt) that doing nothing will send those progressives who are on the fence fleeing in disgust, and just open the floodgates for the Republicans to come steamrolling in.

If we can truly patch it up via Reconciliation, we will get some progress, some movement forward, and build from that. When more and more people realize that they are actually being helped, future changes won't be met with such resistance. (In my fantasy world, anyway. :7)

[FiveGoodMen]

13. If we can truly patch it up via Reconciliation, that's great

But the reconciliation would have to be carried out by the same group that has made the bill worse and worse every single time they've touched it.

I have no confidence that they will suddenly do the right thing at the 11th hour.

[gateley]

18. It's a tough issue - damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think I'm just

so frustrated that I want SOMETHING done. I'm afraid if we do nothing, we'll be right where we are now -- or worse -- for another 30 years.

On this particular issue, for some reason I do believe they'd do the right thing. I guess I'm willing to take the chance (like I have any say in it! :eyes:).

[Mari333]

20. well, if corporations completely take over the airwaves even more

Rachel will be history.
Big brother, indeed.