Why do things have to get this MONUMENTALLY AWFUL before people WAKE UP and SMELL the FASCISM?

[omega minimo]

Why do people do nothing to stop it beforehand, then decide to do something when it's too late? Can anyone explain this?

Thirty years of corporate Reaganism eating away at the economy and the soul of the nation, under every president's watch, up to and including the current one. (They made quite a show of propping up Reaganomics rotting corpse even after it dissolved into a big puddle of goo).

Media corporate consolidation that began in the late 1970's and proceeded down the generations, having more and more influence and "synergy" in our (children's) lives.

Illegal and censored wars, unpunished White House criminal behavior, benefitting and reported on by corporate consolidated media. Black box one armed bandits, corporate machines stealing and counting our votes!

When Alito and Roberts were confirmed for the SCOTUS, it was near impossible to get a rise out of DU, warning of the dangers.

When Bush and Cheney were continuing their two term Oval Office crime spree, it was near impossible to get recognition out of DU, of the dangers of NOT investigating/impeaching.

After this SCOTUS decision, people are talking about getting organized and responding? After they LIHOP? All the "Good Germans...."

After letting all the social progress and economic regulation and monopoly busting of the past get undone before our eyes, NOW people want to DO SOMETHING? Except for those digging in their heels, ever more certain that everything's Nader's fault and Dems should keep trudging to the Right.

All these years, those of us warning ahead of time, were told "people will care when it affects them." The encroachment of corporate fascism "affected" them every step of the way. They just couldn't be bothered to notice or care.

NOW that the SCOTUS has sealed the deal, people finally start to get a clue? Why can't people be convinced to AVOID future disasters, rather than wait to see if they can undo the damage once it hits?

Perhaps they don't take the consequences seriously enough? And now we all get to live in the nightmare they couldn't face when it counted?

[gateley]

1. Frog in boiling water analogy. I really think that's it. nt

[wuvuj]

37. Deep fascism is in the cards....

....and this is how we got there and how it will happen....


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24477.htm


The other option, which the voters are now exercising, is to continue a process begun in 2006 of voting for the party which is not the party in power. Today, that means Republicans, as witnessed in Virginia, New Jersey and now Massachusetts. The absurdity of this, of course, is that it was these exact same people who created this astonishingly thorough mess we find ourselves in. What is Mitch McConnell or John Boehner or Sarah Palin going to do for Americans who don't have jobs? Cut taxes they no longer pay (and thus also further increase the national debt, by the way)? What will they do for those same folks who've lost their health insurance? Kill Democratic plans, even when they're nothing but corporate giveaways anyhow?

Americans will simply be more sick, more broke and more unemployed two, four or six years from now than they are at this moment, if they put the Republicans back in control of the government.

Of course, there's one other possibility, which is that this time the Cheney Party goes balls-to-the-wall, bringing down on our heads a full-on fascist dictatorship, serving corporate interests in total, and likely launching a couple of good wars abroad to complement the complete repression of dissent and freedom of expression at home.

Ridiculous? I try pretty hard every day - and it takes some work - to keep my most apocalyptic totalitarian nightmares for this country in check. But think about this chronological sequence for a second: The Democrats get killed in November for doing nothing while the public suffers. But they are still seen as the party in power in 2012, so they get killed even worse, with Obama sent packing and Palin or her equivalent moving into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. But the new radical GOP regime's policies are even more detrimental to voters than Bush's or Obama's. Maybe the public is distracted for a year or two by some bullshit foreign policy ‘crisis' or another, but pretty soon they're getting real restless. After about six years now of suffering badly, they're getting real surly, and ‘anti-incumbent' doesn't begin to describe the mood of the country. Now they really want some serious change.

Of course, anything can happen - but which part of that sequence seems improbable? And if the answer is none, then the salient question becomes: What does the regime do at that point, faced with an angry mob? What are the Dick Cheneys and Sarah Palins of this world committed to? What are they capable of when pressed?

I don't think those questions really require a response. I think we all know pretty well the answers.

This is the country that Obama - the great Hope guy - is bequeathing us.

[mdmc]

82. thanks for the link

great read..

[WinkyDink]

95. "What are they capable of...?" I refer you to September 11, 2001.

Yeah, it's looking less "tin-foil hat" now, isn't it?

[omega minimo]

115. !

There were pretests, from Reagan Bushco before that. Establishing, Yes, the public will believe official story over eye witness.

[midnight]

157. Hmm. Very interesting...

[SammyWinstonJack]

109. Obama - the great Hope guy...

:spray: :rofl: :silly: x( :argh: :banghead:

[omega minimo]

114. In Nov. many people won't vote. Everyone will blame each other for that.

[leftstreet]

2. Because this country lacks class consciousness

None, zip, nada

[omega minimo]

26. Interesting.

We do, but it's Low/Middle/Upper and people were suckered to identify with the UberRich -- or be Bleeding Heart Liberals.....

[certainot]

107. more like 1000 radio stations spewing coordinated UNCONTESTED repetition

of lobbyist talking points 24/7/365, invisible to the 'consultants' who read and watch so radio is invisible to them.

so the left ends up reacting after the lies are absorbed into the trad media and are made acceptable.

those 1000 radio stations were critical selling us the last 20 years of disaster, and these supremes.

[conscious evolution]

159. +1

The relentless propoganda has played a huge part in putting the citizenry asleep.Religion has also played a big part.

[howmad1]

111. Not only lacking class concious........

.....but we live in the dumbest country on the planet.

[jwirr]

3. I wonder when the German's woke up to the Nazi mistake they made?

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Some never did... just a thought

most did after the allies took over the country and took them to places like Bergen Belsen

[Electric Monk]

13. and some moved to America and joined the OSS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

[jwirr]

16. And that may be part of our problem right now. Corporatism.

[Echo In Light]

21. Shades of Mussolini

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. And some worked with HIitler back in the day

but more than shades of Mussolini... I keep mentioning this. US Fascism will have far more in common with the Mexico of the 1970s... erzats democracy and all, than even Mussolini.

[omega minimo]

24. what was that like?

:popcorn:

[hunter]

54. Yep, when the curtains are pulled back we are that 1970s Mexican style of "democracy."

The U.S.A. has never resembled a modern European democracy.

[pattmarty]

73. When the Allies were marching into Berlin. Remember? No one...........

...............new about all the atrocities or "camps". I believe it would be the same here. The Limbaughs, O'Reilleys, Hannitys and Becks will all say; "we had no idea what was happening". At this stage I am pretty much through. My wife is 58 and I am 63 and we're somewhat considering moving to maybe Spain. I realize nothing in life is perfect, but I grew up in this country in the 50's & 60's in the lower middle class and had a pretty good life. Now, I don't know if it can be saved.

[olegramps]

91. When the Russians were at the gates of Berlin.

[PADemD]

116. When the liberating forces forced them at gunpoint to walk through the camps

to witness what their government had done.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Let me name the ways

religion...

Me culture.

Bad education, and people are ahem proud of it.

Anti culturalism...

Lack of knowledge of the most basic of history.

Lack of critical thinking...

Propaganda...

And on, and on, and on...

It is multi-factorial

[maryf]

34. Good list, reminded me of Naomi Wolf's ten steps to fascism

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment

[Mithreal]

51. +1

[truedelphi]

104. Excellent list. And it is so scary

About the bad education/lack of critical thinking and how people are PROUD of this.

AHEM indeed!

[Deep13]

6. The public have been so brainwashed to fear any kind of socialism...

...and to label any socialism that they forgot the other possibilities.

And when someone says "fascist" it is dismissed as hyperbole. They forget that citizens of real fascist states once had the same dismissive attitude they have.

[omega minimo]

27. You're right about the use of "fascist"

although that has shifted, to the point that many people calmly acknowledge corporate government and even that correct F word, as if it ain't no thang.

[Betsy Ross]

7. Do you think most people will notice for awhile?

Given where and how most folks get news, I don't anyone explained the implications.

[indepat]

8. Gad, the Fascist States of America would have such a chillingly ominous ring

ring to it. :P

[L0oniX]

9. How did Green Day come up with the song American Idiot? Observation?

[n2doc]

10. Let me ask you 2 questions

Did the people of Germany or Italy in the mid to late 1930's rise up in mass rebellion?

Why would you expect Americans to behave differently?

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Ya see, the difference is, they were all BAD people.

We are mostly all GOOD people, who would never let it happen here.

I saw a different thread about Germany's decline in population, and one poster said something like "Maybe that'll be the end of their damned sick culture."

Their culture is OUR culture. The same culture that produced Bismark and Hitler also produced Beethoven, Brecht, Heine, and Bach.

Yet some people seem to think WE are different - that WE are better.

[Mithreal]

55. I will put a plug in for a great book that offers insight wrt what you are saying.

Last time I mentioned this book, someone accused me of calling them a nazi, but that would be wrong in more ways than one.

And apart from the stories of average people in that book, many Americans did see fascism coming to America and took steps to guide it along or so it would seem. It is what we get for not prosecuting a certain prominent crime family and exposing the agendas of those who would do this country harm.

[newspeak]

67. yes, great book to understand what happened in Germany

And, once you start rolling down that slippery slope, it's over. The uber propaganda--there were many Germans who were afraid to voice dissent, especially after public executions--imagine being afraid of having your children turn you in. They were fed the lies, some believed, others were only concerned about day to day living, and others died fighting it.

The thing is those who were apathetic, those who were into self-preservation mode (which was a high percent of the country), they lost their lives anyway because of Hitler's grandiose war hard on. Instead of risking your life to do the right thing, some died in vain doing the wrong thing.

When I was a student, a Humboldt University professor came to speak to our class. He had just written a book about altruism, and why some people during WWII were willing to risk, not only their lives, but that of their families for helping others against Hitler's agenda. He had been saved as a baby-apparently, while the jews were being loaded into the freight cars, his mother had a chance to shove him into the arms of a young woman, and pleaded with her to save her baby. That single woman raised him. Her neighbors reported her to the SS-she cried and told the officer that a german soldier got her pregnant and left her to raise the baby on her own.

Anyway, what he surmised was that people who are raised in families where there is open discussion and not so much corporal punishment, tended to be more altruistic than those who were raised in families where there was fear and more violence. Fascism breeds on fear, breeds on an abused daddy syndrome. That's also the reason why some could accept the deplorable treatment of others.

[Mithreal]

71. Thank you for that post. It was very moving.

[omega minimo]

119. "Fascism breeds on fear, breeds on an abused daddy syndrome."

[truedelphi]

103. If this was a nation that cared about preserving Democracy, that book would

Be required reading in every high school - and deemed necessary for graduation.

It is also such an interesting read - hard to put down.

And really important so that people can wake the fuck up!

[omega minimo]

117. "It is what we get for not prosecuting a certain prominent crime family and exposing the agendas of"

"It is what we get for not prosecuting a certain prominent crime family and exposing the agendas of those who would do this country harm."

[jotsy]

147. Bozo the boy king wanted to make his mark on the nation

and we will suffer discomfort from the visible scarring until such time as the wound is properly cleaned.

[Craufurd]

149. "they were bad people"

Well said. You used four lines to say what I ran on for two paragraphs to say (would Americans do any differently)

[omega minimo]

25. "Why would you expect Americans to behave differently?"

"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

[Craufurd]

148. "why would you expect Americans to behave differently"

The most frightening thing about America is that we think we are somehow different to other humans. We watch the evening news showing the IRA (interesting acronym - it means 'wrath' in Spanish!) killing innocent civilians in London, Hamas doing the same in Tel Aviv, Chechnans ditto in Russia, and we are caught by surprise by 911. Was not Russia "home of the brave" during the siege of Stalingrad? Where was the American military during the genocide in Rwanda? The bottom line is, if you were to go back to 1933 and replace the population of Germany one for one with citizens of any other country, history would not be changed.

[Gregorian]

11. Because people like to be HAPPY!

And thinking isn't happy.

[Mithreal]

56. People should be able to pursue happiness.

If you mean truth can hurt, then yes, I suppose I agree with that sentiment.

[Gregorian]

59. Because thinking threatens people's happiness.

I will always remember studying engineering math with another student. He told me I think too much. It took me a long time to realize that he doesn't think enough. Now he's the president of a petroleum refinery. And still can't spell. And the last time I spoke with him was to urge him to think about making certain Obama is elected. That resulted in actual rage from him. And a comment that it wouldn't matter who was elected. Which admittedly is partially true, now that I think of it.

[Mithreal]

61. Actually, many warned that the nomination to the SCOTUS

may have been all we were really fighting over in the last election.

Being overly introspective can impede happiness, if that makes sense. Not all of life happens inside one's head. A person I had a conversation with recently talked about how her brother was brilliant but lived too much inside his own head and committed suicide not too long ago. Sometimes the people most rewarded by our society are the ones that can ignore suffering and just push others aside. I don't think we should encourage sociopaths or even elect them to government but there seems to be no bar to prevent it at the moment.

[newspeak]

84. talk about thinking

in one of my history classes, we watched some actual film footage of the allies going into the camps. It was gut wrenchingly deplorable. Some of the students in the class had to leave. Anyway the film showed a truck load of civilians being brought into the camp-they were all waving and smiling, until they saw the bodies--they were made to help move the bodies into the big holes that had been dug for the graves. Those civilians knew what was going on, they were making profit from the camp nearby.

One young woman in the class was a real piece of work--so, I'd say she'd be a major freeper today. What she stated made us all drop our jaw. She told us after the film, that it didn't bother her, it didn't pertain to her, and she didn't care. She wouldn't have cared back then, as long as she was doing fine and being taken care of. NO JOKE! This young lady had no empathy bone in her body.:banghead:

[Delphinus]

87. Wow.

I am grateful that I feel - even when my feelings get overrun with the horrendous things happening in the world, I am grateful that I realize we are all one, that there is no separation. I am grateful that I feel.

[Kievan Rus]

150. Sounds like a selfish, wealthy ex-friend I used to have

I used to be friends with somebody like that. On 9/11, she could have cared less and probably cared more about stupid high school clique bullshit than what was going on in New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania.

After Obama get elected, everything became politicized and virtually anything set her off. The only reason she even cared was because she was afraid Obama would make her pay more taxes. I wisely told her to never speak to me again a few months ago. I haven't spoken to her since, still don't want to talk to her, and think people like her are everything that is wrong with America today.

[T Wolf]

14. They are NOT monumentally awful enough for most Americans, yet.

Most people still have their jobs.

Most people still have their homes.

Most people have not been personally presented with a dead son or daughter by the DOD.

And practically all of us are too wrapped up in American Idol or the NFL or the Tiger Woods BS to care.

Add in the total control of the message that is driven home 24/7/365 that "America is the greatest" and consuming is the key to heaven and it is a wonder that any of us are upset.

We are "Idiot America" and the rest of the world knows it. Eventually, they will have to do something about this criminally-insane adolescent who is killing the planet.

[Mithreal]

57. Don't think a full blown empire at the brink can be called adolescent.

I agree with the sentiment, but maybe we can do a better job of selling WITT?

Exchange a little hope for some more We're In This Together.

And Americans are waking up, just slowly and all too often people of the wrong persuasion are greeting them in the morning.

[omega minimo]

120. LOL

Another brilliant comment, Mithreal. Love your last line. :applause:

[RadicalTexan]

15. I ask myself these questions every day

People are stupid. I am hopeless.

[Mithreal]

60. People are not stupid. I have talked with those all over the spectrum.

My take is that people want to BELIEVE "our" government will do right by them even while they complain. They even understand the whole sausage factory metaphor.

One problem is that apathy is reinforced. Another is that evidence to the contrary is often dismissed. Add to that how easy it is to manipulate thought. Another is the belief that your vote will be counted when the ballot counting is so easy to subvert. Another is the mistaken belief that voting was ever enough.

The American people are not stupid. The conservatives have overreached and have severely miscalculated.

[pattmarty]

79. I guess it depends on your definition of stupid. Palin, Beck, Foxx..............

..........Malkin, Bachman, how long do you want me to go on? If the leaders are stupid, who in the fuck is electing them?

[Mithreal]

85. There are errors in your argument despite its persuasiveness on the surface.

First, your list includes entities never elected. Palin won because Murkowski was immensely disliked with "one of the nation's worst approval ratings of 19%" - wiki. Fallacy of false cause.

Second, Bachman is an exception of sorts. I have read several stories about how Dem "Leaders" wanted to keep assclown Republicans in office and pressured or persuaded good Dems to step down because the Republican was a great help in Dem fundraising.

Third, one does not follow from the other. Your supposition that those things exist does not depend upon your original supposition. Another Fallacy of false cause.

Fourth, your argument ignores exceptions. Fallacy of Accident.

Fifth, your argument relies on a secure voting system.

I am in no way an expert in identifying logical fallacies, just decided to use the opportunity to learn more about them and share what I learned. My statements are in no way intended to be taken as the only reasons that argument is wrong.

If you assume the American people are stupid, I think you are making the same mistake the SCOTUS just did and Dem Leadership has been.

[pattmarty]

93. No, I just get out and talk/work with different people (let's say making......

.......under 100k per year which is a VAST majority of Americans) and they are politically and socially stupid. Or if you prefer uninformed. AND, I usually don't worry excessively over fallacy of false causes nor am I an expert of "identifying logical fallacies". And, if I may add in closing for a moment bypassing any logical fallacies, the real reason for the loss in Mass is the voters want something done, fucking anything instead of this dallying around and getting hardly anything of substance done. A fucking year for healthcare and STILL no bill? So much for fallacy of accidents.

[Mithreal]

96. I think you may be misreading me.

Almost everyone I know is middle class and lower.

Ignorance is much more common than stupid.

Now politically stupid, that is a different point entirely.

"the real reason for the loss in Mass is the voters want something done, fucking anything instead of this dallying around and getting hardly anything of substance done. A fucking year for healthcare and STILL no bill?" - What would make you think I think any differently than you do about that?

I didn't make up the names of those fallacies, so please don't take anything I said personally. I prefer to challenge ideas rather than personalities. I am throwing no stones and I think for the most part you and I agree. I just don't have very good writing skills yet when it comes to not pissing off people when I have no intention of doing so. Sometimes, I do, but not this time and that is a promise.

[omega minimo]

125. The more comfortable people are, the more "stupid" they tend to be

What I shorthand as the "Salt o' the Earth" can be far more aware and conscious in their daily lives of the game being played. They may not read/talk/advocate about it. They know corporations run the show. They know our real leaders get their heads blown off. Not the kind of stuff you talk about around the water cooler or the kitchen table with the Coors and smokes.

"Even on DU," there's a sense that the more education/prestige/$$worth one has, lends some legitimacy to POV. Some of my favorite voices here (I'm convinced there are many more who lurk) are those Salt o' the Earth. Voices of experience, wisdom, common sense and many times a long view, which is lacking in many of those who have more time and $$ for the latest popular gizmos and distractions.

And I am not attempting to toss any asparagus in your direction, with or without cheese sauce.

[autorank]

17. k*r "NOW that the SCOTUS has sealed the deal, people finally start to get a clue? "

They've got the clue, it's leadership time.

:hi:

[Dr.Phool]

62. How many even know about it?

Or understand the implications? K.O. had a breakdown of the coverage last night. On the major networks, there was a grand total of less than 2 FUCKING MINUTES of coverage, combined, on the decision. And NO analysis. John Edwards love child? Over 30 minutes.

Don't think any of this hasn't been planned ahead of time. All of those nifty new crowd control weapons, like sonic cannons and such, they were using in Iraq. Those were never meant for war theater operations. They were designed to be used against us. And were in Pittsburgh.

All the laws giving Bush the right to declare an emergency, declare martial law, spy on us, hold us indefinitely without charge, are STILL ON THE BOOKS. And the same people are still running the show.

Our goose is about 3/4 cooked already.

[Mithreal]

69. Cheney was right about one thing.

Once you have new powers, next to impossible to relinquish them.

[Mithreal]

64. Oddly, the Progressive organizations are showing us they were WELL prepared

Alan Grayson too, handful of others to be sure.

I am very curious about how big the smile is on Rahm Emanuel's face right now.

Our Dem Leaders should legislate away this SCOTUS decision immediately and any delay or excuses will seem like political malpractice and recklessness.

Any progress may require empowering the Grassroots. Dem Leadership seems arrogant with its negligence and I expect their response to be slow if anything.

[Nay]

18. Frankly? Cuz nobody has taken away their TV and Cheez Doodles yet. nt

[omega minimo]

30. That would be funny

if it weren't true.

[retread]

19. They have?? n/t

[dysfunctional press]

20. in case you haven't noticed- it still hasn't gotten MONUMENTALLY AWFUL enough for people to wake up.

it's going to be awhile yet.

[Mithreal]

74. Not so, teabagger movement is an example.

We haven't reached a tipping point yet if that's what you mean.

I would add that people waking up is responsible for President Obama's win. He is the first Black President, for gawd sakes. Did you ever imagine you would see that in your lifetime? Not me, but I worked damn hard for it.

People are waking up, just seems like they are going to need a cup of coffee.

[omega minimo]

23. Great answers all.

[Vidar]

28. K&R.

[omega minimo]

31. Hi Vidar nice to see you

:hi:

[begin_within]

29. Some Americans will never wake up.

Religion is the opiate of the masses. That takes care of them.

There's always a new celebrity to be created and then a scandal to attach. Takes care of some more.
The monumentally awful changes actually benefit a select few, or they wouldn't happen.

For people dependent on those select few, whether they are employees or family members, they are going to go along with whatever their master says.

For people brainwashed by the right-wing noise machine in all of its manifestations, they are just going to go along with whatever they hear on the radio or TV - because it's so much easier than actually thinking.

For millions of people who see what's happening, but are forced by economic conditions to concentrate on just survival, yes, they would like to do something to change it, but they have little time and no money to do anything.

For idealistic, hopeful people who do get involved, the powers that be put on a play every so often, with a pseudo savior-figure, such as Clinton or Obama, that promises progressive populism, but once granted the power of office, inevitably gravitates back towards serving the ruling class instead (NAFTA, bailouts, etc.)

And some people are just so detached from politics or know so little about it that to them it's just something they see on TV for a few minutes every day but has little to no relation to their own lives.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a revolution in the last 10 years but considering the host of distractions and obfuscations scattered about to divert everyone's attention then it's not really all that surprising.

[omega minimo]

32. Brilliant. Thank you.

:yourock:

[tom_paine]

39. Well said and sadly 100% true

There can be no doubt, watching this pathetic Reality TV Show for another year, that we are going to have to ride this thing to wherever it leads The chance to stop it was long asgo and we are far past the tipping point now.

[WestSeattle2]

43. I think you nailed it. n/t

[slay]

65. +1 : America = land of distractions

and Americans have long been a distracted people. whether it be american idol, some right-wing asshat like limbaugh or beck telling those willing to listen how to think, act, believe - or just some invisible man in the sky. just don't ask us to face reality... sigh.. great post!

[Mithreal]

76. I feel like the perpetual naysayer. I agree, but you have identified the cracks in the system.

That is an important step, understanding where we are at and how we got here. Just as important is having a vision for those who cannot or have not seen an alternative.

[justabob]

167. bread and circuses still works

That is a very tidy summary of where we find ourselves, thank you for it. I keep waiting for that tipping point to be reached, but we never seem to get there, no matter how miserable our lives are.

[Odin2005]

33. Because people are fed a manufactured reality by the MSM.

Orwell was right.

[northernlights]

52. you know, I keep looking at that little dtv in the corner of my bedroom

every night while I'm falling asleep, with it's little red light still shining. And I can't help but wonder if it's filming and somebody, somewhere, is watching me. I think I'll start keeping it unplugged just in case. I only got it to see the weather forecast which I track ahead of critical farm events in my life....I don't need it plugged in with it's red eye monitoring me. x(

[omega minimo]

127. "DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER. DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER"

[newspeak]

90. Isn't that what * said?

They were creating reality--see reality is anything that they want it to be. Now, isn't that a scary thought? That's why lies become truths, because they make it so, and the complicit MSM feeds it to the public.

[maryf]

35. All of the above, K&R nt

[shadowknows69]

36. Because 80% of humanity are actually ostriches.

And they've been fed the line "Best country in the world" for too fucking long that to open their eyes would shatter the very foundation of that reality.

[Political Heretic]

38. Because we DENY that CLASS exists and that CLASS WARFARE exists.

“There's class warfare, all right,” Mr. (Warren) Buffett said, “but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning.”

EDIT - our punditry speaks the phrase "the middle class" but it does not have any connection to the reality of an actual class society. People in power never speak of the poor, only the "middle class" which they use synonymously with "American people"

They also never speak of the overclass - not directly as a class.

Many of the people lumped into a "middle class" category are in fact POOR, and many people who are lumped into a "middle class" category are actually RICH. It's such a broad and vaccuous phrase in American society that it can hardly be defined in positive terms.

[pattmarty]

81. Bingo!!

[Little Star]

168. Yep

[panzerfaust]

40. Too Inconvenient

Besides, few have awoken - and, at my age, by the time they do I will be dead and buried along with the American Experiment of Democracy (well, cremated anyhow).

[skepticscott]

41. We've become expert

at electing politicians who will tell us what we want to hear, either that things are just fine, or that if they're not, they soon will be again. We roundly reject candidates for public office who will speak obvious, but uncomfortable truths, who will warn us of genuine hard times, or call for shared sacrifice in order to try to avoid them. We want to be told that the way of life we have become comfortable with can continue as long as we believe that we're the greatest nation that has ever existed on the face of the earth, and that as long as we're loyal Americans, things can never get that bad for us.

Of course, some in this country are more "we" than others, and your message, unfortunately, goes to people who are better informed and more in touch with hard reality than most. As others on this thread have pointed out, a sad number of Americans are woefully underinformed and unconcerned about politics, history, economics, science, or anything else beyond the latest reality TV gossip and their Facebook account. This country is headed towards a cliff on a high-speed train, and we will probably not even apply the brakes until we're already over the edge...

[zeemike]

42. Well I have an explanation that you might laugh at.

But it is a lot more powerful than you think.

The answer is television and it's capture of the American mind.
Now in this time people have the TV on from the time they get up to the time they go to bed...some even fall asleep in front of it.
And so there is a drone of very subtle messages being delivered to every one from a toddler to old people....and this message is used to stop us from thinking that something like torture is bad by providing us with multiple images and stories where the hero does these things in order to save us from the evil ones....which they themselves created.

And so most of the people only know what the media tells them....or does not tell them.
And so they poor out their propaganda 24/7 and it corrupts the mind and makes us sedentary consumers, not willing or even able to think any more as long as the TV will continue to entertain them and satiate there apatite for more of the thrilling violence that they have come to love.

We need a new awakening among the young.

[panzerfaust]

44. Which is why we do not watch TV at ALL

... except for tennis, and occasionally the Weather Channel.

And have not done so, for about 30 years - save when trapped in public places (such as airports) where one cannot escape the Faux Newts Channel.

TV damages your brain, or, leastwise, paralyzes one's ability to reason.

[zeemike]

47. Well I hope you have children

Because that is what is needed...young people not indoctrinated like Pavlov's dogs.

[Kermitt Gribble]

66. I think it depends on what you watch.

My tv is on a lot, but it's not tuned in to the usual mind-numbing shows. If I'm not watching Penguins hockey, I'm flipping between Discovery, National Geographic, The Science channel and Planet Green (all while reading DU, of course). My topics of conversation usually revolve around things I've seen/learned from these channels or politics from reading DU. In contrast, I visit my Aunt once a month - her tv is on all evening, but tuned in to faux news and E! Entertainment. Conversation with her almost completely consists of the current scandals - be it political or celebrity.

[zeemike]

106. Well yes it does.

And I have a TV that gets one station on antana....no cable at all.
Mostly when I watch it is is to watch a DVD of what I really want to watch....and that is hard to find on cable...you have to do what you said flip through tuns of junk to find something interesting.
But who all that propaganda is for is the young....they are the ones that they want to shape and influence to buy and consume and to render there minds incapable of thinking for themselves.

[mother earth]

46. You are right, how do we wake people up? It's not really

just awakening, I think we need to empower everyone by educating and explaning what can be done. We need the 60's back, it's time people start showing their outrage in media driven ways. What we really need is to take back the media, in that way it will be in front of those still sleeping.

American Idol needs a kick in the ass. Time to storm the gates.

[zeemike]

48. Well you will remember in the 60s

What the Hippies did was "freak people out"
And while the old people were freaked out the young people became aware. and so they were terrified when ...I think Jerry Rubin said that they were coming for the kids.

Now it is not so much about getting the kids away from the influences of conservative adults as it is away from the media that keeps them stupid.

[mother earth]

68. I don't believe that's true any more, the young adults were

the early believers in Obama. The old standards do not necessarily apply today.

[zeemike]

94. Well I would like to think that myself.

But what the young do will determine there own future....and what I don't know is how many of them would rather watch American Idol that do anything about their future.

[mother earth]

161. Without a doubt that will always be true, a faction will always

be oblivious, but that is true of all ages. I tend to think that children do as they learn and live, and consequently it always stems to the apple not falling far from the tree. Perhaps my viewpoint is colored by my own experience. I have incredible conversations with my children, they never cease to amaze me.

I absolutely agree with you that American Idol gets its viewers from the oblivious, obsessing over ridiculous pettiness never knowing their ignorance. Its popularity really shows what we are up against, but this is across the generations.

[zeemike]

169. It is probably because you do talk to your children

That you see how amazing they are.
I am of the opinion that children are borne ready and able to learn, but many parents just give them orders of what not to do and what to do and never truly engage there minds....and the tv makes it all the more hard because it takes hours a day away from real contact with them.
And it is not all about filling there heads with facts...and in fact that can be counterproductive...it is about stimulating there natural imagination and letting them think for themselves.
But I suspect that you would agree with this based on the fact that you are amazed by them.

[newspeak]

75. I remember when my son told me his TV was on the fritz

He's very creative, plays guitar, writes music, creates T shirts (art). Anyway, while his TV was not working he created a song, and started writing a book. I think TV takes away a creative edge--so, think of your children being fed TV all of the time.

[Mithreal]

78. +1

[mother earth]

162. Good point.

[Nay]

98. No argument from me. TV is so obviously a baleful influence that

I am still amazed most people can't see it. I read "Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television" by Jerry Mander, an ad guy, over 30 years ago and every word is still true. Plus more shit than even he talked about.

[veganlush]

110. you're absolutely right...

...about the boob-tube, i've all but banned it's use in my house since before my kids could get hooked, (they're in college now) . My dad always harped on the dangers of the tube, which, when you think about it, completely runs some people's lives. It tells you when to eat (during the commercials) and what to eat (on the commercials)when you eat too much it sells you diet pills, the rest of the time, it shows you the beautiful people, telling you how you should look. As you mentioned above, it schools us on how to feel about things like torture, patroitism, war, etc..,,ever notice how few of the TV families, the families depicted on sitcoms and the like, how infrequently we see THEM sitting around watching TV? If they wanted to really show reality, they would show families running home to plop down it front of the box, and little else. "All In The Family" and "The Simpsons" are two exceptions that come to mind, and both showed the habit in the bad light it belongs in.

[zeemike]

113. i can remember a time before TV

When I grew up
All we had to do was play outside....something that is almost unheard of today
If and when kids do play it is because they are driven to the soccer field or in the TV itself with video games, most of which teaches them violent beheaviour...the rest of the time they are entertained by the tube.
I am glad you were wise enough to see that with your kids.

[Lorien]

124. As a non-watcher, I can always tell what message television is sending on any given week

by what I read here on DU. "OMG! TIGER WOODS!!!" "JOHN EDWARDS LOVE CHILD!!!STONE HIM!! STOOOONNNNEEEE HIIIIMMMM!!!!" "OMG!! LEVI JOHNSTON NUDE PICS!!!AAAAAIIIIII!!!!" I can still recall clicking on DU after Ashlee Simpson's lip synch thing on SNL and watching in disbelief as the entire site grabbed a hold of that shiny new toy and went wild with it. Pathetic. People here think that somehow they are immune to the propaganda, but they're just as caught up in it as anyone. It drives them to latch on to the trivial and perceive the important as a non issue. Climate change? Yawn. Election reform? Whatever dude. CNN ain't talkin' about it, so we ain't either. Hell, I posted a UK article about how the movie "Avatar" brought up issues of Native American genocide, a history that was little known by the people of Britain (or us, for that matter). The details were horrific, but how did DU respond? "I'm waiting for it to come out on pay per view", "It was stupid. Why waste $15 on crap." "I won't give MY $$ to Murdoch!!" Only ONE person posted a comment about the horrors of what was done to Native Americans by settlers, and that was to argue with the number of millions slaughtered as stated by the author of the article. Yes, a lot of people need to stop sucking the glass teat and wake the hell up, but that won't happen anytime soon. The glass teat soothes them, entertains them and comforts them, so they'll defend it to their (and our) dying breath.

[zeemike]

126. I'm afraid you are right.

And it has made us all stupid and shallow....It reminds me of the movie Fahrenheit 451...Bradbeary was ahead of his time.

[Greyhound]

154. Got it in one!

Between working to achieve another person's dream and the TeeVee, there just isn't much time to learn about and keep up with the things that directly effect their lives.

[mother earth]

164. Seems there needs to be a movement, to infiltrate TV to

wake up the sleeping, and hi-tech games that should be "democracy" driven, instead of murder and mayhem.

[conscious evolution]

160. +1

Fortunately,i see signs that young people are actually starting to wake up.
Wanna know why? They can't afford cable.

[zeemike]

184. Actually I do too.

I have met young people that seem far ahead of where I was at that age, but it is hard to tell just how many of them there are that are waking up from the trance that the country seems to be in.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

45. Well

none of you are yet living the horrors that they have been doing to me for years now.

I wonder how many will mentally survive the coming onslaught of losing one freedom, one liberty at a time.

Some here may remember me asking them in PM to post an article for me. The reason I asked others was because of the awful and serious threat of "punishment" in one way or another.

Oh yeah, when it begins in your lives maybe some of you will Stop calling me crazy.

Good Luck.

[The_Commonist]

49. I think it's the human condition.

I'm not going to throw around words like fascism and brainwashing and propaganda and FOX.
I think it's just a matter of the human condition.

I think the vast majority of people just want to get on with their lives, raise the kids, have a few nice things, have a little fun once in a while and hope for the best. Most people don't think in terms of things being monumentally awful, or know or care about how one judicial decision is going to affect things down the line.

Really, I think people are just basically kinda dumb and want to feel OK about the world. Most people are not capable of taking responsibility for things they simply do not understand. I remember in 2004, having an argument with my cousin, who was going to vote for Bush again. She really was incapable of understanding anything other than the fact that his tax cuts were saving her money. She's very well off and very insulated from anything to do with anything other than her white-bread little reality. The other people in the room at the time, my VERY liberal sister and mother made me stop because my cousin was feeling attacked, and simply had no clue about what I was talking about.

Really, it's because people are generally kinda sweet and kinda dumb. So then, the question becomes - Do you want to have a democracy where everyone gets to have a say or not? The people at the top don't want the "little people" to have a say anymore. That's why they just made it legal to steamroll us with their dollars. They are going to decide what happens now, overtly. Oh, we'll still have that quaint illusion for a while longer that we have a say, the ballotbox. But they've "taken down the scenery," and shown us the brick wall. What are you gonna about it?

What I'm going to do is to stop giving them my money. They are going to steamroll over us with profits made from stuff that we buy from them. Take out the profits from the equation, and we just might have a chance. Of course, I don't expect all those sweet, dumb people who are just trying to get by to understand this either. But if we explain it to them, they might just get it. If we call them "Good Germans" and yell at them for not having a clue, they will just respond by heading to WalMart to buy something to make themselves feel better because we were mean to them. Who's side do you want them on?




"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater." - Frank Zappa

[Mithreal]

83. I agree with very much of what you have said with one exception.

"I'm not going to throw around words like fascism and brainwashing and propaganda and FOX.
I think it's just a matter of the human condition."

If there were only one Democracy and no other with which we could compare it, I could easily be persuaded by your supposition. However, that is not the case. Even history is instructive not just other modern day democracies. You may choose to NOT "throw around words" like that, but in doing so, I cannot help but think your position empowers even if only just a little those who would do your fellow Americans and country harm. Words have power. When we wield them, we may make TPTB uncomfortable or makes some think we are foolish, but there is more at stake than questions of the human condition.

[mother earth]

165. We all get sucked in to some small degree, but it's the

difference of knowing and understanding how it affects us collectively. It may be our never ending condition to get sucked in, so it had better be our duty to educate those around us how this affects the whole. One person can make a difference, it's that 100th monkey thing, suddenly it can change and that's gotta be the goal.

Profits may be what drives us, so we make it profitable to do what's right, that tool can be wielded both ways. You are right about being careful not to alienate, we have to educate.

[Mithreal]

50. They couldn't believe what must be their lying eyes?

I know I sincerely have a hard time believing what we have done with our country.

[samsingh]

53. you're absolutely right.

[omega minimo]

128. thanks for checking in samsingh

:hi:

[Cetacea]

58. "This species has amused itself to death" R. Waters

In what may be my last post here, a heart-felt Kick and Recommend!!


And when they found our shadows
Grouped around the TV sets
They ran down every lead
They repeated every test
They checked out all the data on their lists
And then the alien anthropologists
Admitted they were still perplexed
But on eliminating every other reason
For our sad demise
They logged the explanation left
This species has amused itself to death
No tears to cry, no feelings left
This species has amused itself to death

[slay]

63. I'll K&R this one too

LOVE the Roger Waters lyrics. Here's to all the fucking idiots in this country who pay more attention to American Idol than reality and those in power - here's to you fuckers - couldn't have happened without ya. :toast: :puke:

[Cetacea]

123. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMijMWQlnUc

:toast:

[fascisthunter]

70. some still haven't.... and some will defend it

right here on DU.

[Mithreal]

80. Sad but true

[Frank Booth]

72. I guess this mean you were writing angry diatribes on DU BEFORE the

Citizens United decision. You win the prize.

[fascisthunter]

77. still here?

why bother?

[colsohlibgal]

86. The Sad Truth

A sizable number of Americans make decisions with an enormous lack of information and are too oblivious to research much, they're much more driven to catch the next episode of drivel like "Real Housewives of Orange County" or "Fear Factor". They are basically sleepwalking through life, still content with their fast food from McDonald's and their 400 TV channels. Many of them generalize say that all politicians are crooks, which obviously is closer to the truth than it should be but is not true. Their are responsible people in congress,there are just not enough of them. I like Thom Hartmann's idea of making them wear patches of their sponsors like NASCAR.

The public gets a little pass because they are not going to get much from the mainstream news, there is a reason Greg Palast can only get a gig with the BBC. Mainstream news just has places they will not go because they are owned by big corporate conglomerates. So they air tepid middle of the road pablum part of time, the rest of the time they function like E TV with celebrity gossip. Oh, they do mix in, when available, the latest searches for missing pretty white women.

I often wonder about how bad does it have to get to bring enough people out of their stupor. I hope not a lot worse than things are now.

[Kablooie]

88. People only respond to dangers that affect them NOW. Not dangers in the future.

We might see fascism coming but until it actually takes the the food off your table we won't do anything.

The situation, even now, is not hitting us hard enough to make many people do anything.

[Mithreal]

99. True, fight or flight response is to a REAL tooth and claw type danger like a lion

not a threat like fascism.

It is inconvenient that we did not evolve with threats like that in mind. Another evidence that the "creator" made some mistakes, though I am agnostic.

[radhika]

89. Lots of 'People' are totally on-board with It n/t

[boppers]

92. "it was near impossible to get recognition out of DU"?

You must be new here.

[omega minimo]

129. Civil Rights. Unitary Executive. Corporate Rule. What a snore

:boring:

[boppers]

138. ...and people have been screaming about it on DU the whole freaking time.

If you think DU is the problem, you're looking in the wrong place.

[omega minimo]

139. No they haven't

Don't miss the point.

[boppers]

141. Lets see what google says.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fascism+site:democraticunderground.com

"Results 1 - 10 of about 51,700 from democraticunderground.com for fascism"

Fifty one thousand, seven hundred, pages on it.

If your point was that DU wan't aware, and needed to "WAKE UP" (in all caps), you're making it poorly.

[omega minimo]

142. That wasn't my point

Like I said, Don't Miss It.

Have you read the thread? It's remarkable, well worth it. All these people had great points, before the arrival of the inevitable false accusation of insulting DU...

If you want to research, look into the posts on the topics I mentioned: try Unitary Executive, Alito, Roberts, impeachment. How much response was there at the time?

[boppers]

151. I didn't realize this was a "come to Jesus" thread.

My bad.

The blind are starting to see, the lame are starting to heal, the deaf are starting to hear...

...and the fact that this is a weekly "miracle" is not something to be viewed based on facts. Or logic. Or reason.

PREACH ON!

[omega minimo]

174. Your version is not what I said. I won't argue your strawman.

That's a fact. Logical, isn't it? Reasonable, too.

[boppers]

178. I'll let the quotes speak for themselves:

"it was near impossible to get a rise out of DU"
"it was near impossible to get recognition out of DU"

[omega minimo]

179. That's a good idea

People can read the OP -- and those truncated sentences you selected -- for themselves.

If someone wanted to ask me about them, in context, rather than make false accusations and play the stupid game you're playing, we could discuss the matter.

[olegramps]

97. Unfortunately what is especially true in regard to the Supreme Court is elections have consequences...

This is especially true in respect to the Supreme Court that has been loaded with right wing fascists. The consequences of this is terrifying since these ideologues have been elected for life. They are not even compelled to retire when the reach 65 or 70 but hang on desperately when they are little able to pull their decrepit ass on to the bench to mutter some more nonsense. Take Rehnquist for example. He was little more than a corpse dragging a dead body to its grave. I believe that this decision by our Forefathers was massive error. I more reasonable term would be ten years to allow for changing situations. At worst at least make them retire at 65.

[H2O Man]

100. That's easily answered.

It is human nature, within the context of the culture. It has to do with comfort levels, laziness, and the semi-hypnotic control of the technology.

Things are about to get much worse. The cycles are speeding up. The opposing forces are going out of control. One socio-economic class, which is a mere fraction of the population, has been busy preparing for what they believe is to come. The majority of people have no idea. A third group -- which is aware of the consequences of the road upon which were now travel -- has not made preparations, for two reasons: first, they hope they are wrong; and second, because they do not believe they are able to properly prepare.

[winyanstaz]

101. As I am one that has been screaming for America to wake up for a long time now...

I truly appreciate your efforts.
Thank you for an excellent post :)
Now we need to figure out how to get our nation back.

[omega minimo]

130. Thanks winyanstaz

for your efforts and presence here :pals:

I'm blown away by the insight and quality of every post here.

Also, my Ignore finger has been very itchy lately. If someone is belligerent and abusive and won't quit, they Disappear. Not ONE has shown up here.


"Now we need to figure out how to get our nation back."

When ya do, let me know........ :spray:

Silly me, I'm more of a LET'S STOP THEM BEFORE THEY DESTROY EVERYTHING than a Let's try to find the pieces and put it back together.......

Apparently, one answer to the OP question is, this is how it is unfolding, how it's meant to be. It's gotten this bad and maybe some creative renewal wiill emerge from the destruction.

:hi:

[Syntheto]

102. A more objective title would be...

...Why do things have to get this MONUMENTALLY AWFUL before people WAKE UP and SMELL the TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATE?

Communism, Fascism, the Divine Right of Kings, all the same thing. What's at issue is the totalitarian system.

[omega minimo]

131. Good point. Civil rights are coming up much in this thread.

[certainot]

105. this is an excellent explanation of what causes fascism

this 2 min youtube is my fav and explains a lot- the root of greed and authoritarianism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85ILt3c3S8A

[donco6]

108. Things will get MUCH MUCH worse before the masses wake up.

I honestly think it's inevitable now.

[omega minimo]

112. Powerful Video Response to SCOTUS Inc

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7552186


How Stupid Do You Have to Be to Think that Bribery and Speech Are the Same Thing?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7555349

[Lorien]

118. They're too busy being zombiefied by the TV. nt

[omega minimo]

121. This thread is amazing. Every single post is great. Insightful and part of the equation.....

[Canuckistanian]

122. The Americans will always do the right thing...

...After they've exhausted all the alternatives.

-Winston Churchill

[omega minimo]

132. LOL ROFL

:rofl::toast:

Thanks Canuckistanian. How much room on your couch ya got for DUers?

[Canuckistanian]

181. Please

We call a couch a "Chesterfield".

And I've got plenty of room for refugees.

[omega minimo]

182. A "Chesterfield"?!`

:wow:






I've heard of a Davenport, in ye olden dayes... anyway, you are most kind :hi:

[Capn Sunshine]

133. the fascists have actually coopted the word

so there's that. Obama with a Hitler mustache? "Facist Government takeover"? Glen "the fascist are here now" Beck?

The actual thing we're fighting goes back over a century. They like to teach that we defeated it and all its forms in WW2, but it's still lurking. It's children and some of its original members went to work straight from Nazi germany to the republican party? Remember how George Bush the elder was embarrassed by revelations that original Nazis from the the 3rd reich worked in his campaign?
They were very active in the takeover of California by son of a nazi Arnold ("I admire Hitler")Schwarzenegger.

Karl Rove? Accoring to Retired U.S. Navy Lt. Commander Al Martin (www.almartinraw.com), Rove's grandfather was Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg. Roverer was Reich-Statthalter---Nazi State Party Chairman---for his region. He was also a partner and senior engineer in the Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurburo A. G. engineering firm, which built the Birkenau death camp, at which tens of thousands of Jews, Gypsies, dissidents and other were slaughtered en masse.

Rove's anti-democracy tricks while working as a political operative are well known.
Just because someone is related to a Nazi doesn't make them one, but I'm judging them on their actions first and then their familial ties to past fascist movement leaders.

So, we still have a pretty large contingent of fascists to fight, even though they say WE are the fascists. Cool trick, that.

[omega minimo]

134. Oh wow. "Cool trick, that." That's why I call them

"mindfuckers."

All these tricks were on display as soon as -- and before -- Reagan took office. Calling him "The Great Communicator" -- one of the biggest/most obvious.... Obama praising him and his so called skills? :thumbsdown: :evilfrown: :puke:

This is what our dear "centrists" don't get. These are Nazi propaganda tactics.




You're right. Another brilliant post here. Underscored by

"Just because someone is related to a Nazi doesn't make them one, but I'm judging them on their actions first and then their familial ties to past fascist movement leaders.'

And another reason Schwarzenegger and the noise that comes out of his face are so repulsive.

[Capn Sunshine]

136. You always have "gotten it"

I wish more would pay attention.

[omega minimo]

137. Silly me

I thought "we" "got it" as a nation in the turmoil of the 60's and 70's .... (don't like the limp cliche "turmoil" but there it is ...)

On top of the history of the previous Nazi era, literature of dystopia and lessons of propagandist techniques, the primer of "1984." Did people need Uncle Ronnie's Good Morning Sunshine In America Show soooooooo badly, that they would throw away everything we'd learned, throw away THE FUTURE to suck at the Glass Teat, as Lorien calls it? :evilfrown:

Once gotten, how can it be so FU##IN easy to UnGet?

[flying rabbit]

135. Speaking of fascism

Interesting website that covers (among other things) Hitler's rise to power. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERhitler.htm I only knew a little about what happened - it is a good, and sobering overview.

[amborin]

140. Rahm's DLC "message discipline" is on the slippery slope n/t

[swilton]

143. I don't think people are going to wake up

People are simply brain dead about the social sciences - gotta have the latest iphone, blackberry, etc. It's all about consumerism -

Interestingly, this goes back to the Powell Memorandum - of which one objective was to neutralize intellectual criticism of capitalism through cultivating corporate friendly scholarship in institutions of higher learning

I'm all in favor of African American History Month, Native American History, etc. but if you check in many of the colleges and high schools, the studies of political science as well as history are going away. Furthermore if anyone wants to embelish education funding, it all seems to go to technology and the hard sciences....We have to demonize those Chinese less they get ahead of us (as opposed to learning more about them through the social sciences)

[omega minimo]

144. The effort to privatize the schools to enrich/serve corporations proceeds

[Craufurd]

145. "wake up and smell the fascism"

I agree about the "LIHOP". However, the definition of fascism starts with socialism - government control of production and the marketplace. No corporation would support that. We do, if we are to survive as a democracy(and some would say it's already too late) have to severely curtail the power of obscene amounts of money to control an election.

[amborin]

146. "fascism starts with socialism" Absolutely FALSE! n/t

[Capn Sunshine]

170. isn't that the opposite of socialism?

Control of government BY and FOR corporations is what we're talking about, not the opposite.

[omega minimo]

173. yes, that poster was a bit confused

[Capn Sunshine]

175. especially in light of the fact that it was socialism that saved the banking system

and I say that as a capitalist. But without socialism as practiced by of all people, GW Bush, I'm convinced our financial system would have cratered in a conflagration of horrible consequences.

[omega minimo]

176. LOL -- good point

Smells fishy to me, though. They left the toxic assets and the rigged game intact, so the whole thing is supported by a hollowed out system that can collapse anyway. That's a solution?

[omega minimo]

152. This thread helped me see the answer due to what we weren't discussing

or the answer I've been seeking. There are plenty of answers and all good ones. I thank everyone here for DU at it's best, even the ONLY person who arrived late to try to accuse me of insulting DU by misrepresenting my words and then try to make me argue about it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7557969

[Greyhound]

153. A few have always known, a few are incapable of knowing, but the huge majority are afraid to know.

What alternative would they see even if they dared to look?

[Joe the Liberal]

155. Because of many factors.....

most of which have already been very well stated in this thread. Although I'd say that for the most part it is because most people just don't give a damn and those that do aren't in any position to do anything about it.

[omega minimo]

156. If people don't give a damn to guard their rights and expect them to be there, they are hypocrites

[pokercat999]

158. Who have you assassinated? What building did you blow up?

What even tiny act of civil disobedience have you committed?

Oh that's right you wrote a nice little piece on DU where it will be viewed by a few like minded others.

We all need to look in a mirror. WE ARE THE PROBLEM. Yeah, me too. Why don't we act? Because we are shackled by the fear that if we do something meaningful we will face the scorn of our neighbors, friends and family. Voting is not a meaningful act and the last national election is definitive proof of that statement. The recent SCOTUS decision on corporate personhood and the right to free speech will make it even less meaningful,if possible.

What would be MEANINGFUL? What might be worthwhile? Something worth the risk of your personal freedom?

How about:

Leading a couple of hundred very sick people who have been without healthcare in the take over of a major hospital, forcing the doctors and medical staff to treat them?
Leading a large group of homeless in the takeover of a major hotel providing food and safe shelter?
Arresting, trying and punishing the Board of Directors of Bank of America for crimes against the American people.

You get the idea. Anything meaningful with direct and immediate results will most likely get you labeled criminal or terrorist.

[omega minimo]

171. That's a very limited and extreme view.

Is that an excuse for you to be complacent?

And please don't presume to speak for others or their personal actions/choices that are "meaningful," without fitting your vivid "criminal" scenarios.

[earth mom]

163. For decades Americans have been fed the propaganda that the U.S. can do no wrong and

and that greed is good.

I really don't think most people in this country even understand what fascism is.

Look how many people bought into the fake hope & change of the Obama campaign.


Ignorance is bliss in the United States of America.

[justabob]

166. the f word was cause for a flame fest not so long ago - right here

Thread after thread of people trying to sound the alarms, but every time the word fascism came up a chorus of people would show up.... americans don't goosestep! Oh Come on BushCo hasn't killed six million people, how can you possibly compare that regime?!.....Where are the brown shirts?! ad nauseum. DU lost several good posters that way.

I think people ARE seeing it.... I don't think they know enough about government or political systems to call it fascism. Plus, thanks to our glorious media, they have been duped into thinking it is 'socialism' causing all the problems. Quite the coup.

[omega minimo]

172. yep. great post. thanks -- and your sigline is perfect for this

"It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required." Winston Churchill

Unfortunately, too many people are willing to give up their rights, ignoring that they have, assuming they are permanent and indelible.

[justabob]

183. thanks

You get it about my sig. That is exactly why I use it and keep it... thanks for noticing.

And I agree... the disregard for rights of all kinds is stunning.

[Oak2004]

177. People are not happy

Few are content. Virtually everything complained about here is complained about everywhere in America, though not necessarily using the same terminology and not necessarily with the same detailed knowledge and not necessarily crediting the same party as potential savior or great betrayer.

People are not happy with the way things are.

But it's not enough to be unhappy. People also don't know who to trust, or what to do. They lack leadership. Nothing happens without leadership and vision.

WE (yes, I shouted something important, netiquette police can go complain about trivialities elsewhere) --- WE here should be leaders in our communities. WE should be raising hell on a daily basis for the corporatocracy, providing a focus for this undifferentiated anger. If WE do not provide the focus for the anger in our communities, then I guarantee you the far right will, and then we won't be sitting around discussing "soft fascism" anymore.

Yes, I am a part of "WE". I have something up my sleeve, contingent upon a new power chair coming through (without it, I'm housebound and just a hair short of bedbound). I'd say more, but I don't want to alert my intended target. I can speak generally of a daily picket (dream scenario: 24/7 picket) of one of the cogs of the corporatocracy in my town, and if/when they figure out how to chase us from there, to tenaciously keep at it with other actions that leverage the undifferentiated and undirected anger of my community.

Note: this is not the polite form of protest, where a committee plans for months, gets a permit, has a properly organized rally in Washington DC for two hours, and then goes away. This is the kind that shows up unexpectedly in town and points to bad things hidden in plain sight and which does not rely on the benevolence of the media for its effectiveness.

Too risky for you to go do anything about what is happening? How risky to you (generic "you", not any particular "you", is intended here) is fascism? You have kids to take care of? I'm pretty sure they'd benefit more from a legacy of democracy than they would from whatever material circumstance you had to downsize away in order to fight to give them that democracy. Sometimes I wonder what percentage of griping about people being too comfortable to act is rooted in projection, rather than observation, because I haven't seen comfort around me for a good long while, only lack of direction.

[omega minimo]

180. Good luck

with getting your chair and what you need to work on others behalf. Thank you. :toast: