Corporations are immortal beings that exist among us that now have the same legal rights as humans.

[alberg]

The essence of the problem is this:

The status of Corporations was not changed by the SC ruling, personhood was (incorrectly) established by a court decision over 100 years ago. What the SC decision did was remove legal restraints that had been in place to limit how much influence Corporations could directly wield over our democratic processes. As citizens, we are not able to compete in the public sector with beings who

1.) will never die - they are not constrained, as the rest of use our by a finite human life span and

2.) have the potential to amass and utilize levels of wealth (power) that is beyond the reach of ordinary citizens.

The combination of immortality and unlimited wealth spells the end of Democracy as we have up till now understood it. This is why it is critical that this decision be reversed.

[Raspberry]

1. Doesn't the SC decision also apply to unions?

Do you think that's wrong also?

[DJ13]

3. Yes thats wrong as well

[alberg]

9. I believe, and I believe it was the intention of our Constitution

to protect the rights of individual citizens (flesh and blood humans) and not to creat artificial entities that would be able to compete for and in some cases usurp those rights. You and I can not compete with a being that has no finite lifespan and access to enormous wealth. If that being has an agenda that is harmful to your well being, you will not be able to defend yourself against it. I believe that the legal convention that constrained the political behavior of Corporations, Unions and other artifical entities was correct and should not have been overturned.

[mdmc]

2. we can always buy into the corporations if we have the money

capitalism being what it is. Political expression is another commodity.

[randr]

5. Stockholders have absolutely no say in the workings of major corporations

[DJ13]

6. Theres the rub

We keep getting poorer while the corporations get richer.

Theres no way to overcome their influence if we dont have the means of buying enough of their stock to force them to change their ways in this stock market mad country.

[alberg]

31. And that is the reason up till this SC decision that they were

prevented from having an unrestrained hand in influencing elections.

[randr]

4. They actually have rights that no American Citizen has.

They are held exempt for many crimes an average American would be thrown in jail for.
When they are held accountable for misdeeds they can simply pay their way out.
They spend annually more than most people need to live on to change the laws that bother them.

[femrap]

18. And if they do get caught,

they simply declare bankruptcy.

[Captain Hilts]

7. MORE rights than some United Statesians in some states. nt

[treestar]

8. They could die in that if the business fails, the shares could be worth nothing

They also can be dissolved.

Ordinary citizens are the ones who start them up, so they can build the wealth.

It's just a form of doing business.

Anyone remember Ross Perot and how he ran for President with his own money? That was OK, because Perot wasn't faceless.

[alberg]

10. Corporations are theoretically immortal while you and I are, in fact, mortal.

In practical terms, Corporations are entities that exert power and influence in shaping the world we live in. They have agenda's and goals that (over time) can transcend the agendas and goals of any individual that started them or currently works inside them. They often function (because of the Profit Motive) outside the accepted moral and ethical constraints of real flesh and blood people. (As the saying goes, it's not personal - it's just business (think Godfather)). All that's fine as long as there are limits to what they can do. What the SC decision does is allow them to buy up and control our Democracy by overwhelming any message or candidate that they decide is not in their Corporate best interest. And this best interest my in fact be in direct opposition to not only the best interest of the majority of American citizens but against the best interests of the folks who actually work for the Corporations (think Outsourcing). The overall effect of all this is that we will lose our Democracy because the power of individuals and their ability to effect social change through the ballot box will be, in practical terms, obliterated.

[treestar]

11. That assumes that anyone who can spend money can brainwash a voter

Corporations are conveniently faceless but still made up of people.

there is a difference between money and the resulting access to mass media and the voters.

It's a matter of having the money, not a matter of organization. Individuals can be very rich and buy access, too. Or LLCs or nonprofits or what have you.

[alberg]

13. Corporations transcend the people who at any given time are employed by them.

This fact is key to understanding the problem that the SC ruling creates. You, as an individual will take your opinions, prejudices, goals, beliefs etc. to the grave along with your vote. Individuals are limited by their life span and the personal power they can amass and how much control they can exert over their fellow man.

It is a biologically based form of checks and balances.

Corporations can plan and exert power over hundreds of years with a continuity of purpose that is simply unachievable by individual citizens. Over time, this power can be used to shape the access to information, education, laws, economic conditions etc. in a way that individual voters will be powerless to prevent. Unlimited amounts of money and power can brain wash a population. History is full of examples. Money and power do limit access to media. Just look around. Rich individuals can exert influence, it's true. But, unless that rich person institutionalizes their wealth inside a Corporation it will not function as a legal person in our society - a legal person with no fixed life span. And when they do that they will have set in motion forces that individual flesh and blood citizens will not have the power to stop.

[BrklynLiberal]

21. and corporations have "limited liabilty" for the havoc they wreak.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. and that is not true??????????

[bemildred]

26. Sounds correct to me.

Otherwise all this money spent on campaigns is being wasted.

[femrap]

23. and they can change their identity....

Blackwater is now Xe.

If the shares become worthless, they have declare bankruptcy....put shitloads of people out of work.

And if the shares become worthless, it's because the leaders of the Corp. have made horrid decisions or they have gotten caught at causing harm to thousands.

No one is jailed.

Ordinary citizens sell their Corporation to the public and become wealthy. At least that's how most do it.

Very few private corporations out there....Bechtel, for example. They don't want anyone to know their biz.

And don't forget that the shares of the corporations are traded at a Big Casino which has little regulation from the SEC.

I hate Corporations...they are just a way to avoid responsibility....or Liability as the sharks call it.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

12. Hmmm. Immortal blood suckers. HBO series?

I wonder if you can see their reflection in a mirror?

[alberg]

14. So you raise the question, what is the politically equivalent wooden stake

that can be driven through their heart?

[yogini]

16. Stake in the heart and cut their head off

That's how you kill vampires!

[yogini]

15. K & R

[BrklynLiberal]

17. ..and virtually none of the responsibilites...

[adamuu]

20. cannot be thown in jail. a physical impossibility n/t

[fascisthunter]

22. well stated, and your account of how corporate personhood

cam to being is accurate. It was snuck in dishonestly and without merit!

[alberg]

24. Reversing that incorrect decision is getting some momentum - Here's a link:

http://www.movetoamend.org/we-corporations

[fascisthunter]

25. thank you and welcome to DU

[alberg]

28. Thanks for the welcome! Me thinks we've got some tough times ahead.

[fascisthunter]

29. yes, it's definitely going to be tough but it will be well worth it all

I know we can do this, but it will take sacrifice and hard work.

[alberg]

30. Agreed! We have the understanding and commitment. What we need now

is strong national leadership to emerge who can focus this building wave of dissatisfaction among citizens in the status quo and ensure that what follows is more equitable, just and humane. Unrestrained human greed is not a good formula on which to structure a viable society.

[WillyT]

27. Definitely Ammoral Beings, And Many Times Immoral Beings...

:shrug: