If you were to leave the U.S., which country would you go to and why

[CTyankee]

Poll question: If you were to leave the U.S., which country would you go to and why

would it be your choice?

[CurtEastPoint]

1. Spain... n/t

[47of74]

18. Italy

If I were going to leave I think Rome would be high on the list of places to go. Either that or Florence. I visited both cities last summer and am going back again this year.

[CTyankee]

56. Hey I'm going to Florence again in September for an art intensive program.

I'm independently studying the Italian Renaissance and will be eager to visit the following: Brancacci Chapel, Santa Maria Novella Church, the Accademia, Osepdali degli Innocenti, San Marco Monastery, Ognissanti, the Duomo, Orsanmichele, Santa Trinita, Santa Croce, Palazzo Pitti, Giardino di Boboli, the Bargello, San Lorenzo -- in addition to the Uffizi, Palazzo Vecchio and Santo Spirito.

Did I leave anything out?

[47of74]

66. Piazzale Michelangelo?

Only thing I can think of off hand is the Piazzale Michelangelo - if you're going to be spending any amount of time in Florence that's high up on the list of places to see.

[CTyankee]

71. Actually I will be there, but I think because some folks I'm going with want to see the view of

the city from there. I hear it is quite impressive.

I can't wait. I wish I were going this spring but I am recuperating from some surgery and have to wait it out til September.

I may also go up to Prato (Fra Lippo Lippi's work) and hop on a train and go to Cortona...the gorgeous "Annunciation" by Fra Angelico is there (very unlike a similar, rather subdued, one in a fresco in the San Marco monastery).

[47of74]

72. I'll be there in October

Not August like last year when it got up over 100 degrees. I had a pretty good time there, but I don't think I'd go in August again because of the heat.

[CTyankee]

74. Do you have any favorite restaurants?

I'm going to be there for almost two weeks so I'll need lots of recommendations!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

144. damn.you.I.am.so.jeaolous.

Oh, sorry, that was my internal conversation typing itself out without my knowledge or permiso.

WOW, that is so effing cool. I cannot wait to go do that all again.
Enjoy, as much as I have.

[CTyankee]

173. I've had to wait til retirement to do all this travel.

Pushing it all into the so called "golden years" is better than nothing but being younger when you travel has its charms, too. I do have more time for study, tho, which is what I wanted out of retirement.

[demoleft]

2. (i live in italy, so i should not share with this poll. but if i could choose...)

i'd choose the USA.
imagine.

[CTyankee]

10. I love visiting Italy and will again this year (Florence) but I can

understand why it might be difficult to deal with.

However, I would like to find a way to go there for a few months at a time.

Dove di, in Italia?

[demoleft]

19. abruzzo, east coast - centre south. on the adriatic sea.

yes, it's hard enough to deal with my country these years.

nice you come back here, and in florence too - sounds fun for you.
many americans and english people in the past decades bought little villas and houses with some lands in tuscania, and also in abruzzo - close to the national park.

ok. i'll save a bottle of red montepulciano wine for you then. waiting for a cheers. ;)

[pink-o]

215. My favorite country in the world so far!

Italy succeeds on so many levels:

The history (ancient and renaissance)

The Food

The Weather

The lifestyle

The breathtaking geography. OMG, any country that can give you Cinque Terre, Sicily, Venice and Lake Como under the same flag is like the garden of Eden. I even enjoyed Brindisi, more for the great time I had there than the landscape. I once spent a month travelling around and still cried my eyes out when I had to get on the plane to go home!

So yes, I chose Italy, even though I spent 5 years in London when I was young and it was cheap to live there. Too cold for these old bones now!

[HipChick]

3. Caribbean

[The_Commonist]

4. Ireland...

'Cause with my name and my drinking habits, I would fit right in.
Or Australia, 'cause I like shrimp on the barbie.

[roguevalley]

198. ditto. Ireland.

[racaulk]

206. +1 on Ireland.

Beautiful land, friendly people, and all the Guinness I can drink. What's not to like?

I first visited Ireland back in 2008 and I absolutely fell in love with that country. I would live in Dublin in a split second.

[Mudoria]

5. England

Like the idea of returning to where my ancestors came from.

[Captain Hilts]

9. I'm first generation here. I don't really think of Canada or Britain, or Ireland

as foreign countries.

We all watch most of the same television shows, movies, music, etc.

In many ways folks from Nebraska or California are more alien to me.

[HipChick]

24. True...

I get back 'home' about once a year..but can't say I really miss it..quite a few US grocery carry British foods now..and I can always find a good Irish Pub here for a decent British meal..lol!

[OutNow]

43. Decent British Meal?

You forgot the sarcasm icon.

[HipChick]

51. a pox of a black pudding on you

[Greyhound]

162. The pursuit of which founded the Empire...

:rofl:

[anonymous171]

6. Pandora. nt

[Captain Hilts]

7. Canada is my first choice, UK second. Both sides came to the US from UK via Canada. nt

[FreakinDJ]

8. ADD Philippines - My wife has a house there

and the money trades 44:1

I'm thinking "Snow-Bird"

[LoKnLoD]

85. and the seafood there is so plentiful

My fiancee lives in the Philippines so that is where I would be heading...been thinking seriously about it even before this question came up.

[treestar]

11. Australia

I'd love to live surrounded by laid-back people who work to live rather than live to work.

That could be a stereotype, though. But if not, I'd love it there!

[Blue_In_AK]

32. My son-in-law is Australian.

The kids are planning to move there from SoCal after my daughter gets her students loans paid down some. I can't wait to visit.

[treestar]

192. I want to go too, at least to see it!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

12. Land of Oz, or New Zealand.

maybe Japan or the Baltic states.

My third tier? France.

[Mixopterus]

13. In a perfect world?

France, Sweden, or Finland.

I adore all three cultures, but I hold a special love of Finland in my heart.

Realistically? Canada.

My great grandmother hails from there and my father is very good friends with a lawyer in Canada.

[shugah]

134. why a special love of finland?

just curious

[calico1]

14. Canada..

I think we have a lot in common with them so it would be less of a culture shock.


Second choice would be England.

[Captain Hilts]

16. It's almost as if they're not foreign countries/places.

Our cultures overlap so much.

Now, if the UK would just start driving on the right like Europe and America...

[lumberjack_jeff]

103. Canada. Mom was a Canadian, thus so am I. n/t

[kudzu22]

15. UK - love the accents!

[rucky]

17. Brazil

[JVS]

20. Cuba

[greytdemocrat]

122. LOL!!! Yeah...sure you would. n/t

[MercutioATC]

21. Costa Rica

Literacy rate equal to that of the U.S., first-class (and nationalized) health care, low cost of living, low taxes, great climate... and the friendliest, happiest people you'll ever meet.

[joeunderdog]

55. LLLLOOOOVVVVEEEE that place. For all those reasons and more.

Great people who don't chase money as a way of life. Attitude, scenery, pace, affordability and no military.

PURA VIDA!!!
:yourock: :yourock:

[Ruby the Liberal]

86. Me too! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE going to Costa Rica

[AspenRose]

106. I've heard it's a great place.

[Dappleganger]

156. Same here!

We have VERY close ties there and would retire there in a heartbeat.

[MercutioATC]

160. Actually, retiring there is the plan in 6 years...regardless of the climate here.

That's been my plan for a while.

Just launched a new company that may complicate that timetable a bit, but I'm shooting for May or June of 2016 :)

[tuckessee]

22. Solomon Islands because I like it isolated & off the beaten track.

I'd rather have an eyeball removed with a red-hot fork than live in anything called a city.

[Burma Jones]

23. Costa Rica

Pura Vida

[DJ13]

25. If I had the money, probably Japan

Aw who am I kidding, Im stuck.

[stray cat]

26. People are assuming the country would want them I guess?

[onehandle]

27. France. Paris is the greatest city in the world and the French are warm and friendly people.

Only people who act like asses get the cold shoulder.

[dana_b]

108. I love France too!!

trying to learn some French with my daughter. She wants to go study there someday as she is taking culinary classes (French cooking) and working on getting an internship with a chef.

I've been there a couple of times and didn't have problems with rudeness either.

[sandnsea]

132. Aw, I heard they were bitchy

and I figured I'd fit right in.

[Xicano]

217. Paris France is my choice too.

I too think its the greatest city in the world and I agree with your assessment of the French people as well.


Peace,
Xicano

[Vinca]

28. Probably Canada first choice because my husband has Canadian

citizenship so it's an easy in for me. We might end up there yet the way things are going.

[Blue_In_AK]

29. Probably Canada.

Yukon Territories, maybe. It's close and looks a lot like Alaska. I don't think I'll be leaving the good old USA, though.

[asdjrocky]

30. I'm going to Vanuatu.

For the wonderful people, the good climate, and most importantly, the kava.

[dajoki]

31. Portugal...

No good reason, I just always dreamt that it would be a nice place to live.

[CTyankee]

60. I was there last fall and was very disappointed.

I had expected that Lisbon would be another Madrid (which I adored), with all its charm. Lisbon had a down at the heels feel to it. The "art" of Portugal was almost entirely derivative (that is, extracted from the countries and continents it had colonized). What they did have was decorative tiles but even they were not fine works, altho some were pretty. The food was so high in sodium that I had to be very careful (I have high bp). Wine was ok and very cheap. Coffee was not up to the Italian or Spanish standards of quality. Even the modern architectural works, such as the Casa de Musica in Porto, were not done by native Portuguese. I didn't go to the Algarve in the south but I have read that it has become environmentally degraded because of excessive tourism. Not a lot of Americans there I noticed. The tourists I encountered were either Brits or Germans, seeking the sun and warmth. It's no wonder that their fado music is known for its "mourning that the country has lost its past glory."

Wish I could give you a better "review." If I were you, I would think twice about Portugal...if it's warm sun, excellent food and vibrant art culture you like, choose Spain. I've only been to Madrid, Barcelona and the northern part (Bilbao is a wonder but it's colder). Just don't go to the Costa del Sol (environmentally aware travelers dub it Costa del Concrete!).

Feel free to pm me if you'd like...

[dajoki]

81. Thanks for the warning CTyankee...

Like I said, I have no good reason, but I always thought it was nice. I'm not headed anywhere soon so I would have time to make a more informed decision. Thanks again!!:hi:

[LuckyLib]

89. Spent a month in Portugal this past July and loved it. A hidden treasure.

Almost no Americans, few tourists generally, and people who are friendly. A month only scratched the surface of what's possible to see. Don't miss it!

[dajoki]

95. That's one of the things...

I heard about, its not touristy and I like that, thanks.

[CTyankee]

100. I was there for the art so my experience was different, obviously.

If you have a different experience (good luck with the salty food, tho) then great. You may have a different quest than I had. I admit mine was art and architecture and there were no real artists and architects of quality that were there. It may not even matter to you. I get that.

I would ask LuckyLib where he/she went and did. Might be what you want to do.

The art thing wasn't there for me, which was MY thing but it isn't everybody's, and I understand that.

Good luck! I hope you find a nice place to live in, whether here or there....

[pitohui]

133. oh i think portugal is just wonderful!!!! and 500K brits who moved to portugal cant be wrong

i would love to spend a year just hiking around portugal and enjoying the beauty

another country like that, with the spirit of europe but that spice of elsewhere, would be turkey

[CTyankee]

178. Istanbul, with both the Blue Mosque and the Haggia Sophia, is on my bucket list.

I could eat Turkish food every day of my life, it is so fresh and so tasty. We have two Turkish restaurants in smallish West Haven, CT and a Turkish deli. Heaven!

[pitohui]

200. you will love istanbul

turkish people are super friendly and the city is just beautiful/cosmopolitan

you mention art, i think every art student/teacher should go there at some point

i'm more a naturalist, and if you like to get out in the countryside, it's fabulous too, such as goreme national park

[Royal Sloan 09]

33. Belize, nt

[yowzayowzayowza]

50. Placencia. n/t

[XOKCowboy]

188. Shhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell everybody!

[Mari333]

34. well according to my dna results my oldest ancestors are from Afghanistan

and were jews. so Im fucked.
guess Ill stay here.

[branders seine]

35. New Zealand

Netherlands

or

Norway

[kiranon]

37. New Zealand or Finland.

[branders seine]

45. Finland is interesting

in a nipples-perpetually-hard sort of way.

[malakai2]

218. Good choices

New Zealand and Scandinavia top my list as well. Tasmania is also on my list, further down with Canada.

[madamesilverspurs]

92. New Zealand.

Saw a program on trout fishing there, crystal clear water hip deep, trout visible swimming by. . .

Yeah, New Zealand.

Plus, I heard a doctor from NZ talk about their healthcare system, also worth exploring.

---

[alfredo]

36. Sweden

[lunatica]

38. I grew up in Mexico lindo y querido

I would love to live there again.

[proteus_lives]

39. I'm staying.

It's not over yet.

[fascisthunter]

40. Germany, because of family, and because of their social system

at least people are still considered more important than a corporation there.

[eilen]

58. I have family in Germany, my Mom immigrated to the US in 1950

So I guess I'd better order Rosetta Stone and learn the language.

[fascisthunter]

63. lol... I've already started studying German

I should have learned it as a child but that's a whole other story I don't care to share. My mother came to this country in 1962... she married my father as an American G.I. in Germany maybe two years prior.

My favorite place to visit is the Austrian Alps, close enough to where my family currently resides in the southern part of Germany.

[eilen]

69. My Mom forgot her language. So I never learned.

I have never been to Germany although I correspond with a friend in Hagen. I think my great grandfather still lives in Berlin. I have cousins close to Frankfurt Main. I also have two aunts I have never met but I don't know where she lives. My mother returned for a visit after the Berlin Wall fell and reunited with her father who lived in the DDR. However, it was difficult with the language barrier. One day I hope to have the resources to visit during the annual family renunion.

[fascisthunter]

73. You May be Eligible for Dual-Citizenship...

I was just checking out their laws for citizenship yesterday, because I've wanted to get dual-citizenship for a long time now. I was hoping their requirements may have changed but unfortunately that is not the case, so I am still ineligible.

Check it out if you are curious or interested:

http://www.einbuergern.de/content/e1317/e1909/index_ger.html

[eilen]

93. Thanks for the link but I don't think I am

My grandparents never applied for American citizenship for my mother but she didn't find out about this until some time in the 1980's. She said she talked to the German consulate and he said she was no longer a German citizen either. So for a while until she could get her immigration status/citizenship she was a citizen of the world so to speak. It is too bad because I would have loved to go to Germany with her and gotten her settled as she went for many years without health insurance. Also, I think she would have liked to have extended family and I know she felt like she "fit in" when visiting Germany in 1989, a feeling that had eluded her since she arrived in the US. Although, I don't know that she would want to go as she really loves the American Constitution and has very low expectations of the President/administration.

I don't know that Germany will be much better for much longer. My friend Vanessa (in Hagen) says that the recent elections saw the Right Wing gain more power and prominence. Here is an excerpt from her October message:

" The economic and job market situation is not very good in Germany either. Since the stupid Germans elected the most "fat cated" party and this one is going to form a coalition with the second best fat cat party. They want to cut down on the social charges you pay with your taxes so that all the stupid people think that they get more money but on the other hand they want cut down on health insurance benefits and others. They are also against minimum wage and want to loosen the job protection. Hooray We still have a social safety net but it is getting more and more holey. I am still unemployed and only doing this 6h/a week mini-job with the kids. I see no chance to get into a adequate job anytime soon"

It is difficult everywhere, I'm afraid.

[fascisthunter]

109. ¥es... It is deteriorating there due to a similar right wing fundie movement

although the system in place makes it much harder for fascists to take over.

[DFW]

167. That's not why it's deteriorating

The right wing fundie movement here is a parasite that takes advantage of weaknesses. In an effort to
shore up the electoral base of the big parties, way more open borders than the country were instituted,
and people from countries not sharing Germany's social values poured in. My wife is a social worker here.
She votes Green, but she goes crazy trying to cope with immigrants from Eastern Europe and North Africa who
get here and do what came naturally to them in their own countries--try to beat the system. But the German
system only works if everyone tries to make the best of it. If people flow in with no intention of trying to
contribute so that there is always enough for those who fall on hard times, then the system grows gaping holes,
and to plug those holes, benefits that used to be taken for granted can no longer be paid for. The radical
right loves this situation, as they have an obvious and willing scapegoat, and thus can build a base where
previously they only had a few dozen whackos they could count on. If the two main parties had done their
job in making sure that those coveted benefits were only available to those who really needed them and were
otherwise willing to contribute to society, there would have been no resurgence of the radical right here.
Instead they let anyone who got in have whatever they wanted, hopping their gesture would increase their voting
base. When there was no longer enough to go around, the far right now knew where to point the finger. Plenty of
the immigrants here assimilated, but far too many did not. When some of them got flagrant about it and smugly
prance around with free apartments, cars and cell phones, it bugged ordinary people who worked and couldn't
afford all that stuff. The far right was inadvertently given a free new breath of life by the very people that
most opposed them.

That having been said, even today, the worst off Germans are better off than the worst-off Americans. The
center-right party currently in power on a Federal level (CDU), would get booted out of power tomorrow if
they ever proposed reducing taxes and social benefits down to a level that in America would still be considered
such radical reform that it wouldn't get ten votes in the Senate or the House, so it's all relative.

You're correct: the far right will never again take over here. Anti-Nazi laws are still in place, and something like
Fox "News" would be shut down after about 15 minutes for violating those laws. This remains a country where the
people have seen what happens when an extremist rightist nationalist movement takes power, and suffered the full
consequences of the world's disapproval. A party with the likes of Dick Cheney at the top would get nowhere here.

Once was enough.

[fascisthunter]

182. Hey DFW... thank you for that

my half-brother did tell me immigration was a problem, I just didn't know details. I figured the right was taking advantage of the situation there... it seems to be a universal trait of the right wing to take advantage of people and their problems, instead helping to resolve them.

I should read up on the parties there...

Thanks again

[DFW]

185. No sweat. My wife being a social worker here, I get it from the inside

It's not so much even the immigration. The European Union opened the borders as a political gesture to countries
that are nowhere near out of the ruins of fascist dictatorships (Romania and Albania being the worst) who used
to call themselves "socialist." They have thousands of ex-military and secret police, well trained in para-
military techniques, and who are now sweeping streets for $50 a month or unemployed completely. The organized
crime gangs bring them into Germany, visa-free, and they break into houses at night (doesn't matter if the owners
are there or not, they are trained to handle resistance) or rob stores at gunpoint and are home by breakfast the
next morning, their pockets stuffed with enough cash to let them live like kings for 6 months, until the gang
organizers need them again for another job. In the meantime, they are untraceable to the German cops.

The immigrants who come here really looking to join German society are not much of a problem. They get jobs of
a menial nature if they have to. I know a guy who was a chemical engineer in Kazakhstan who drives a streetcar
here. But his German is now near flawless, and his daughter just got her (German) university degree. Guys like
him are not the problem. But the two "mainsteam" parties courted near unobstructed immigration from Eastern
Europe in the 80s and 90s, recognizing any jackass that could say "Bratwurst" as an ethnic German, tossing a
ton of money and free perks at them, saying "welcome home, remember to vote for us." No wonder that real German
taxpayers resented footing the bill for these people. My wife's job is to help try to place long-term unemployed
people into jobs, and she gets untold numbers of lowlifes who show up only because they have to, in order to
appear to look for work (so their benefits will continue). Then they produce doctor's certificates saying they
can't work, speak lousy German (some even show with interpreters after being here for 15 years!) and then drive
off in a Mercedes! this is not a worst-case scenario, but she sees it several times a week. It burns her up, because
not only are these people very visible (the far right has a field day), but they are stealing HER tax money that
she willingly paid, thinking it was to help support a system that helped people only when they needed it.

The far right here loves it, because it gives them a reason to exist. Like "terrrrrists," without whom Cheneybush
would have not carried ten states in 2004, the badly thought out policies of the mainstream parties gave the far
right a weapon they never should have had.

[Art_from_Ark]

208. Can I get special consideration for German citizenship

if I look like Beethoven?



Art_from_Ark, circa 1998.

[madrchsod]

41. sweden....i still have kin there.....

[Sisaruus]

42. Finland

All 4 grandparents were from Finland and I have plenty of extended family there.

[Catshrink]

44. Scotland - it's green

and beautiful and sparsely populated in the Hebrides.

[NorthCarolina]

77. +1

[Marr]

189. I once took a train from Salisbury to Edinburgh, and I thought it

was hilarious. From that vantage point, Scotland seemed like...

Ever see that episode of Star Trek where they go to the evil universe? Everything is the same, only darker, sharper, and meaner? That's how Scotland looked. The grassy, rolling hills were replaced by craggy ones, the leafy trees replaced by pointy ones, the sea was grey instead of blue, and the houses... they were the same, only... angry.

I love Scotland.

[Catshrink]

197. yep...

except when I was there, it was an unseasonably warm day in May and the sky was unbelievably blue. My photos came out weird because of the contrast between the color of the sky and the green hills. I loved it. I never got used to being called "Lass" though.

[Iggo]

46. Spain. (n/t)

[hobbit709]

47. Austria. I was born there and can claim Austrian citizenship.

[Caretha]

114. I was born in Salzburg

in a army hospital...how do you do that?

[hobbit709]

137. I was born in Saalfelden

Not too far from Salzburg but my mother was Austrian and I was born in the local hospital.

[OutNow]

48. Holland

I'd live in Delft close to the border with Belgium and visit Amsterdam on special occasions. I've been to Holland over a dozen times and like the train system and the wide use of bicycles.

And everyone speaks English. That's good because I find the Dutch language quite difficult.

[DFW]

169. It's really not so difficult once you learn it in earnest

When we opened an office there in 1990, I asked our new local guy to speak to me slowly in Dutch and explain what
he was saying until I could answer him on my own. I also used to get Dutch TV here (western Germany) for a while,
and they show everything in the original with subtitles, so I learned a lot of Dutch that way, too. The guy who
runs our Dutch office does not speak standard Dutch as his native language anyway. He is from the far north, and
speaks a language called "Drins," which is somewhat similar to Frisian. So, just as Catalans in Spain speak a very
clear "Spanish (i.e. Castillian)," as it is their second language, so, too does my man in the Netherlands speak a
very clear, mostly slang-free Dutch, and is far easier for me to understand than people from slang-ridden big cities
like Amsterdam or Rotterdam.

Anyway, after about 6 months, I could get by, and after a year, people in Holland didn't even notice I was from
somewhere else, and I haven't even lived there. You'll pick it up way sooner than you think if you live there and
make a concerted effort to learn the language. Its linguistic proximity to English is, after all, what makes it so easy
for them to learn English so well.

[DutchLiberal]

184. Delft is near the border with Belgium?

Not to the Dutch. But I guess if you come from a country as big as the US, distances in Holland seem very small. ;)

[DFW]

213. We do tend to laugh when people from NL tell us about big distances

I was with some friends from Noordwijk aan Zee, and we drove to Den Bosch, and they started telling about how
nice the women were "here down south." We had driven maybe an hour, and here they were talking as if we had
driven from Boston to Altanta!

[eridani]

207. Seems that when you expect it to me more like German, it's more like English

And when you expect it to be more like English, it's more like German. I visited there and liked it, but think it's awfully crowded compared to what I'm used to.

[athenasatanjesus]

49. Corporations are still going to allow the existence of countries? NT

[Strelnikov_]

52. I'm going with Energy

Jon-a-thon . . .Jon-a-thon . . .

[sharesunited]

53. Malta. Mild climate. English speaking. Politically stable. Prosperous.

Universal health coverage.

Handy jumping off point to other nearby destinations which I like and are also mentioned here.

[CTyankee]

61. It's on my bucket list of places I want to go before I die!

Even if only to see the Caravaggio works there, but also the archeological treasures. I would take a ferry over to Siracusa to visit a museum I had wanted to see on a 2005 trip to Sicily but couldn't because it was closed for renovation. I think the history of the Knights of Malta is fascinating. Did you know that it was Napoleon who kicked the Knights out of Malta and their HQ then became Rome?

[B Calm]

177. I spent a month in Malta back in 1969. It's really not that pretty of

an island. It was the most bombed place during WWII. Pretty much a desert island and you can take a bus and see the whole country in one day. It was nice though after spending four months in Naples to hear English speaking people.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

82. I've thought of Malta, too

They appear to be the easiest EU country to retire to.

But what I'd really like would be to live in Japan or in a small English city. Or maybe a small Scottish city. The Scottish National Party is made up of real leftists, such as Labour used to be.

[CTyankee]

88. My forebears were Scottish (Campbell clan) but I don't think I could try to

get citizenship because of it. They came here as a result of the "Clearances" in Scotland of the late 18th Century! Might be worth a try,though!

[Initech]

54. If I had the money I'd relocate to Belgium.

[Tim01]

57. I think Switzerland would be the best match for me. nt

[CTyankee]

96. The French or German part? nt

[DFW]

179. Many non-Swiss Europeans prefer neither of the two

Thousands of them have moved to Ticino, the Italian-speaking Canton. Even plenty of Swiss from French-speaking
and German-speaking Cantons have retired there for the weather and the lakes.

[CTyankee]

180. It wouldn't take much to get me to Ticino...nt

[customerserviceguy]

59. Canada

I was born there, although naturalized as a US citizen in my very early childhood. If I could find someone to help me get birth records from Quebec (you pretty much have to know French and Quebec law and procedure to do that), I could get a card showing my Canadian citizenship.

I tried working online with governmental agencies, but they've made it absolutely impossible to do from here. I've thought about contacting an immigration lawyer up there, but wouldn't know where to start to find one, nor do I think that it would be affordable at this time.

[DFW]

175. I have a lwayer friend in Quebec

He used to be Canada's Ambassador to the USA while his uncle was Prime Minister. I can get you his address if you like,
although I don't know if his firm does immigration law, or what they charge if they do.

[DFW]

204. Check your message inbox

I sent you the address of Raymond's law firm in Montréal.

[Edweird]

62. Canada. Best mountain biking in the world. Plus some

Canadian girls really dig wild American freak boys like me :)

[Sultana]

64. Inglaterra

[LWolf]

65. Canada.

It's close, I can get there by land, the language is similar, and I can take my horses.

[Greyhound]

67. France. Beautiful language and lands but most importantly, it is fairly sane.

The French (IME) have a far better outlook on life and have built those values into their society. For example, the very idea of the French allowing their government to bankrupt the nation to feed the military is so far beyond possible as to be laughable.

[Craufurd]

123. France

"fairly sane"? Have you observed a French parliment meeting? And learning the language can be dangerous - they take it as an attack on their culture if you mispronounce a word. You don't get that response from Mexicans. They are very appreciative if someone shows an interest in their culture by trying to speak their language.

[krabigirl]

155. No, they are just correcting you. It's how they were taught as students as well.

[timeforpeace]

68. One of those Middle Eastern countries aka Male Paradises. "Wife #7, attend!"

[azmouse]

70. There is no where else I'd rather live than

the good ol' USA.

I didn't vote in your poll.

[CTyankee]

76. That's OK. I did say "if you WERE to live elsewhere."

I cannot leave my family totally, but I would like to spend some months in Europe, which I love. Mostly, tho, I'm going to have to settle for various trips. I am really entranced by old European cities and hope to get to Vienna, Budapest and Prague in the near future.

[DFW]

171. Wait on Vienna

Half of the center of town is under construction, and it looks like a mess. It is very pretty, though.

I haven't been to Budapest in 28 years, but it was cool then, and probably more so now.

Prague is worth a journey from the farthest corner of the earth to go see. If you go nowhere else in Europe, go there!

[CTyankee]

174. No plans on Vienna until at least April, 2011 but Oct. 2011 is more likely.

I hope the construction will be done by then...

[DFW]

181. I may have to run down there again in May, and if so, I'll give you an update

Either that, or just call a friend who has a office in the center of town, and ask how progress is.

(Might be less time-consuming! LOL)

[CTyankee]

194. Thank you! This is good to know. I appreciate it. nt

[OswegoAtheist]

75. I am leaving the U.S. for Canada

I was born there, and I intend to die there, but until then, I'm fighting for my neighbours to have the same rights and opportunities that I have.

Oswego "including a feasible one-dollar coin" Atheist

[timeforpeace]

78. Mexico.

[liquid diamond]

79. Autralia.

because the people are friendly.

[frebrd]

80. Canada

It's a great country and both my grandfathers were born there.

[Cyrano]

83. My home planet. The damn thing is, my ride hasn't shown up

[roamer65]

84. Canada.

It's the right mix of "managed captialism".

[Johnny Harpo]

87. I Guess The grass Is Always Greener On the Other Side

We talk about this often in our house.

My wife favors Nicaragua. I would lean towards Canada.

I don't want any part of any place where there is a better then 50% chance of someone showing up at my door with and AK-47.

That said: The US may have its problems, but it's still way ahead of whatever is in 2nd place.

While the grass always seems greener on the other side..cow poop is still cow poop.

[Hugabear]

90. Depends. What countries have the easiest immigration policies?

Just curious. I know that some countries are rather strict on who and how many people they let in.

[Political Heretic]

121. Someone told me once that I could get into NZ pretty easily with my education and career background.

But sadly, I don't remember the full conversation. Now I wish I did, because I'd seriously consider it.

[Michigan-Arizona]

91. Australia

My mother is from there & I can apply for AU citizenship.

[liberaltrucker]

94. Germany

Birthplace of my great-grandmother (Dresden 1892)

[Raine]

97. Canada

I have relatives in Vancouver.

[joeybee12]

98. Czech Republic...and it's not if, it's when...

...been wanting to for a while now..I can see myself there in 2-3 years.

[KonaKane]

99. I'm already in Hawaii

The only state that doesn't feel like it's really a part of the USA when you live here. Works for me.

[Andronex]

146. You could say the same about the Florida Keys...

The Hawaiian Islands and the Florida keys are my two favourite places, hopefully one day I will retire there.

[DFW]

165. My daughter lived there for 2 years

What was supposed to be a one year abroad (she grew up and went to school in Germany) turned into a two year
stay that had her calling herself kama'aina by the time she graduated from her adopted high scool on the Big
Island. I can fully understand how you feel.

[B Calm]

101. The Greek Isle of Corfu. .

[lazarus]

102. The UK or New Zealand

I lived in England for 2 years when I was younger. I'm still homesick. I still miss the place terribly. We're actually starting to put in motion plans to get there in a few years, but it probably won't happen.

[AspenRose]

104. New Zealand

Have friends there - also have friends and distant relations in Canada

Ireland and Norway intrigue me, but I think like Canada it'd be too cold.

[ElmoBlatz]

105. Sweden

Home of the infamous bikini team

[DFW]

107. Well, I sorta DID leave about 30 years ago (after a fashion) for Germany

I had this job, and my girldfriend told me that she was glad I had this cool job, but she
couldn't/wouldn't leave Germany to live in America. Her dad was disabled due to getting
his leg blown off at Stalingrad, and she just didn't want to be so far from her family.
My immediate superior was smart enough and flexible enough to offer me a position over
here, which developed into station chief for Europe. I keep my Texas residence, even though
I'm rarely there much (in DC or NY or MA just as often when Stateside). But I'm overseas
more than I am home. Our daughters choose (for now) to live in America, although they grew up
as Germans here in the Rheinland.

As for the why, well, I'm the in the turban. The why is standing next to me with her hand on
my arm. If that's not enough of a "why," then a long drawn-out wordy explanation isn't going
to shed much more light on the answer than I've laid out already.........


And now, 29 years after that photo was taken, there are still no regrets:

[Caretha]

115. That is so awesome!

[DFW]

118. It wasn't easy in the beginning

My starting salary got bitten into by the airfare when I traveled on my own nickel.

Still, she was worth every kilometer and every pfennig.

[Craufurd]

125. no regrets

"A picture is worth a thousand words". I understand your reasoning and concur with your choices.

[pitohui]

135. wow! beautiful story, beautiful people

that lovely german lady must have a picture of dorian grey in her attic or something though, she just doesn't age, does she?

you're both beautiful, what a truly cool story to share

it made me smile

p.s. i sure wouldn't object to living in germany, a cool country, if there was only world enough and time -- and money! the euro is a bit high for me -- i'd love to spend a summer hiking from town to town on some of your great walking/biking trails between the towns and villages, i've really only touched on that a little bit

[DFW]

164. You're not the first to come up with the Dorian Grey theory

She has had her share of challenges, though. She was diagnosed with cancer in 2001 and spent most of that
year in hospitals and a rehab spa. Luckily, in Germany they have rehab spas geared to specific kinds of
cancer, and so, after chemo and radiation was done with, they sent her to a breast and thyroid cancer
rehab spa down south in the Black Forest. In Germany this is considered to be an integral part of the
treatment, so it was fully covered by her health insurance along with the hospital stays, and outpatient
chemo and radiation treatments. It was an immense help in her recovery. As you can see from her smile,
her positive nature helped her bounce back to a point where few ever guess her true age, let alone what
she's been through. Whatever led a woman like her, who could have had any guy she wanted, to decide to
stay with me, I'll never know, but I'm not about to complain. When you win one of life's lotteries like
that, it's not like you spend a whole lot of time figuring out how to give it all back. Waking up next to
that smile every morning can't be bought for all the euros in the bank. One morning, when I had to get up
particularly early, when I got out of bed, she spontaneously came out with the line from the blind man in
"Young Frankenstein:" "WAIT! Where are you going? I was gonna make espresso!"

You must have spent some time here in Germany. I have a very time-demanding job, and to unwind, when we can,
we both take off to a castle behind our house, from which several of those walking/biking trails between our
town and neighboring towns start, and just walk in the woods until we feel like heading for home. The euro is
expensive, but the walking trails are free.

[pitohui]

201. i've spent a little time in germany, but would love to spend more!!!

i would just love to throw on my backpack and walk on some of those trails and find various towns/villages/cities randomly but i've always been a short leash for financial reasons and kind of had to schedule everything

[DFW]

203. Life is definitely not cheap here

But as I indicated, some of the natives are downright friendly!

[bdamomma]

211. great story.

[Kitty Herder]

110. Canada, the UK, New Zealand, or Australia.

Because I only speak English and I think I'm too old and stupid to learn a new language.

[DFW]

128. Don't sell yourself short!

I'm 57 and starting on language #10 (Polish). It can be done, przepraszam!

[quiller4]

111. My choice would be Ireland-climate similar to my own, national health,

a large cluster of distant relatives and friends throughout the Republic.

[Umbral]

112. Are any of those very welcoming to refugees, American refugees? nt

[pitohui]

136. most americans aren't allowed to work in other countries

most of the countries on the list, you're going to have to have youth and be highly qualified in some career type job

i have relatives in japan but they are EXTREMELY well qualified in what they do

in canada and eu, you need to have either youth or v. high qualifications because they are aware of economic/health care refugees from the usa

however, of the countries on the list, costa rica and mexico have qualifications that a "real" middle-aged or older retiree could achieve by working hard over the years and having some savings to qualify for residency, in fact, this is also true of panama, belize, and many other latin american countries -- i don't wanna say you can "buy" residency but if you're a decent person with some money you're willing to invest in the country (buy a house, business, etc) you can do it

some of these countries -- france, germany, uk -- while they would be WONDERFUL places to live i can't imagine how you'd ever get the grubstake to move there, assuming you are too old and have no special qualifications for a job they need

i mean, don't let me be negative, i'm middle-aged w. basically no useful work i can do at all, so i don't expect any country to admit me unless i'm willing to pay for the privilge -- and i'd have to win powerball to be granted residency, instead of a tourist visa, to say the uk that's just life

our dollar is not worth much, we need to look at countries where it's still worth something

[Terra Alta]

113. Australia

They have wonderful accents, and I hear the people are pretty friendly, too.

Celebrating Christmas in the summertime would take some getting used to, though.

[greytdemocrat]

124. Second,third the idea.

I know several people from there and they say it's great! Hot in the summer though!
One of my friends there said it was 109 degrees with 50% humidity. And he and his
wife don't have A/C.

[Craufurd]

116. If you were to leave the U.S.......

Costa Rica, because they abolished their military in 1935 and chose to spend the money on more important things, like education and health care.

[Political Heretic]

117. New Zealand

It's beautiful, and I have a warm, soft mushy spot in my heart for kiwis!

[Joe the Liberal]

119. Canada would be the most realistic and easy route/choice for me.....

I wouldn't have to learn a totally different language and it's closer.

[Political Heretic]

120. PS - can anyone tell me about the overall climate in NZ?

I have a strong sensitivity to heat. I note that NZ is pretty far down south, so I'm hoping made that the weather even in summertime is somewhat mild?

Is it humid?

I know this is silly, but for years I've had this strange heart longing to at least make an extended visit to NZ, if not try to find work and actually move there.

I'm sure I should visit first, lol.

[depakid]

157. Depends on where you are

but guaranteed to be a lot cooler than last July and August in Oregon.

North Island may even look little familiar.

[Political Heretic]

161. I'd want to live some place with lots of options for solitude.

I live a somewhat solitary life and I really like it, I crave space and peace away from people.

Don't get me wrong, I love people - but I'm one of those types that "recharges" my batteries by being alone.

[Lorien]

126. New Zealand. nt

[old mark]

127. Other, actually a tossup between Mexico, Canada and Austrailia.

I'm still waffling, and I'm not really happy with anywhere else.

I want my country back.

mark

[Fire1sKid]

129. Amsterdam

[B Calm]

172. Dutch is not an easy language to learn. You might consider Malta,

they speak English.

[pitohui]

130. i voted other, panama but costa rica would be wonderful too

there are many good choices on yr list but i can't afford them -- costa rica and panama are beautiful, friendly, wonderful countries i can actually afford -- and they have great health care services i can afford which is also important at my age

i'm not gonna leave the usa unless i'm forced to for medical/health cost reasons but it's interesting to think of our other lives, isn't it?

[8 track mind]

131. any of the above n/t

[Forkboy]

138. I'd try living anywhere, but Japan calls to me.

[Bonobo]

139. Come visit anytime, Forkboy.

I live near that big white castle in your 3rd picture.

[Forkboy]

142. You don't know how tempting that offer is.

If I had the money I would try it in a heartbeat. I'd be booking a flight tonight if I could. :)

[Bonobo]

148. I promise...

If you get yourself here, you won't have to pay for food or lodging while you're in my house.

But that's just because you're special, Forkboy.

[Forkboy]

149. Bookmarked.

;)

I'll never have the money to do it, but the offer is mucho appreciated.

Though what does a Yen go for these days? :)

[Bonobo]

150. Not good. The yen is strong. 90 yen: 1 dollar these days. nt

[Forkboy]

152. Good enough!

I'll be there next week! ;)

[Bonobo]

154. Bring some good parmesan cheese, would you?

Can't get decent cheese here!

[keroro gunsou]

140. other

Japan. Just because.

[cherokeeprogressive]

141. Venezuela!

[Andronex]

143. Top 30 countries Human Development Index Ranking

1. Norway
2. Australia
3. Iceland
4. Canada
5. Ireland
6. Netherlands
7. Sweden
8. France
9. Switzerland
10. Japan
11. Luxembourg
12. Finland
13. United States
14. Austria
15. Spain
16. Denmark
17. Belgium
18. Italy
19. Liechtenstein
20. New Zealand
21. United Kingdom
22. Germany
23. Singapore
24. Hong Kong, China (SAR)
25. Greece
26. Korea (Republic of)
27. Israel
28. Andorra
29. Slovenia
30. Brunei Darussalam

<http://www.nowpublic.com/world/best-country-live-list-countries-2009-un-hdi>

[bikebloke]

145. New Zealand as first choice.

If I could've stayed legally when I was there, then I'd be a Kiwi now.

The Nederlands
France (sans Sarko)
There was a time I wanted to move to one of the Scandinavian countries. I've since evolved into a warm climate animal.
I liked Argentina.
Aussie.

My eyes were opened back in 1977 on my first cheapie backpacking trip to Europe. Unfortunately, moving is easier said than done. I certainly looked for a way. Probably should have ignored my intuition warning me away from women who offered to marry me so I could stay.

[undeterred]

147. Australia

[Name removed]

151. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lpbk2713]

153. Spain

Lived there for three years. Good people.

[557188]

158. SWEDEN

Rather easy choice.

[Liberal In Texas]

159. My wife was born and raised in London.

She has never renounced her citizenship to accept citizenship here and still has a British passport. We probably wouldn't live in London, it is so expensive. The other problematic thing is leaving a lot of stuff behind. Including over a 1000 books....and our dog. And then there is the starting over thing. We're probably too old. But if the US goes down the tubes, we'll go to the UK.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

195. Shipping 1000 books is nothing

My parents shipped 2000 when they moved across the country.
And as I understand, dogs no longer have to be quarantined to enter the UK.

[davidpdx]

163. Voted other, but already live outside the US in South Korea

But hey, at least we have national health insurance here.

[Goldstein1984]

166. Central America or Thailand

Reason(s):

Cost of living
Climate
Lifestyle
Scuba diving

Would likely keep Alaska as residence, spend summer (~ 3 months) here, and spend the rest of our time as expatriates.

[Paper Roses]

168. Before my life changed so drastically, my husband and I visited

Europe 3 times and each time we managed to spend some time in Belgium. Such a beautiful small country with the most gracious people. In my fantasy world, I'd buy a tiny little house near Brugge. Public transport is everywhere so would not need a car. I'd find a part time job to keep me active and enjoy my free time mingling with the people and studying the incredible history of Europe.

My late husband told me once that if we won the lottery, we'd buy a place there. Like all fantasy conversations, it was a really never expected to happen, just a fun talk.

As I see the way my life and this country has changed, it would be a welcomed reality.

[CBR]

170. Barbados -- family is there. nt

[a la izquierda]

176. I will go anywhere in Europe or most of Latin America...

but I have to keep my husband in mind. I'll be finishing my PhD this year, and I'll be actively looking for work elsewhere. I'm bilingual, but hubby is not. So, Europe or Canada would be our best bets. Latin America would be problematic because of language issues.

[mnhtnbb]

183. Other--Panama --where we already have permanent resident visas

which were obtained in 2005 after we did a search for an 'escape hatch' after Bush was handed a second
term through shenanigans in Ohio.

Panama is less expensive than Costa Rica and has some equally beautiful areas.

[Atman]

186. Thailand

Because I have family already living there, and if you're going to have a shitty corrupt govt, might as well live in paradise.

Btw, I'm talking about the islands, not the northern interior. Koh Tao, Koh Pangnan are among the
most beautiful places on the planet.

.

[Marr]

187. I really liked France.

People there have the right attitude, IMHO. The work to live, rather than live to work. Easy conversation, lunch ends when it ends, etc.

[H2O Man]

190. Onondaga.

[Ishoutandscream2]

191. Cuenca, Ecuador

Rated best city for ex-pats by International Traveled.

[Doremus]

193. A friend told me they love Americans in Panama.

Never been there but it sounds like a nice place.

I'd also like any of the Scandinavian countries I think.

[Pool Hall Ace]

196. Germany

My niece has a wonderful fiance there, and I'm really crazy about her.

[Ildem09]

199. Villokmin Svergie! Welcome to Sweden

or Norway. Gotta Love the Social Democratic Stronghold. and the fact their conservatives won the election last time by planning to raise taxes only 3% instead of 5% across the board

[DFW]

216. Välkommen

Close! Du måste lära dig svenska innan du får bo där (you must learn Swedish before you live there).

But one not too well-known fact: Swedish is surprisingly easy to learn. I went from zero to about 85% in
less than a year, and I didn't even live there (took it in college in the States so as to make it easier
for me to get around while visiting friends there--blew their minds when I came back after the first year
of college and could understand everything they said!).

[donheld]

202. Could I be a vagabond for a while?

I think it would be fun to experience life in all the countries you mentioned plus several more.

[pruple]

205. India

my husband is from there and we have a home and family.

[marmar]

209. Canada.....It would be a very short trip.

Detroit-Windsor Tunnel





Ambassador Bridge Detroit-Windsor

[deacon]

210. I think the GOP should leave and I'll stay here. n/t

[Norrin Radd]

212. Jenovia

[truebrit71]

214. I'd probably wind up going home...

..

[Solly Mack]

219. I'm looking into Belize right now.

I currently live in Germany...we're considering all our options and Belize is in the top 5.

I really like living abroad.