Bauer defends comment comparing poor people to stray animals

[phantom power]

Your GOP -- still sociopaths.

“My grandmother was not a highly educated woman, but she told me as a small child to quit feeding stray animals. You know why? Because they breed,” Bauer said, according to the Greenville News. ”You’re facilitating the problem if you give an animal or a person ample food supply. They will reproduce, especially ones that don’t think too much further than that. And so what you’ve got to do is you’ve got to curtail that type of behavior. They don’t know any better.”

The gubernatorial candidate said the government can't afford to keep giving money away without requiring something in return. He said poor people should lose their benefits if they don't pass drug tests, and parents should be required to be more active in their children's education.

But Bauer's comment drew nationwide controversy and criticism as soon as it was reported. On Saturday, Bauer defended his remarks at a gubernatorial forum in Columbia.

"There's no way that I was trying to tie animals to people, but what I was trying to talk about is the dependency culture, and just like when you feed an animal, you create a dependency," he said.
http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11869649

[Robb]

1. Keep diggin'. nt

[phantom power]

2. Aside from the bit about animals, this narrative has a lot of power.

The bit about "culture of dependency" that is. It's really just an extra-offensive version of the same old "welfare state" argument. The whole "animal" thing is probably just an extra special version of the "black welfare queens" meme.

Don't want our tax dollars going to help the "wrong kind of people." Wink wink nudge nudge.

[KittyWampus]

4. "give people a fish, they eat for a day. teach people to fish, they eat for a lifetime."

Yes, there is something to the bit about culture of dependency but the uber-liberals are usually so focused on proving how liberal they are they forget to point out the need for EDUCATION.

Education is the Golden Key.

So when it comes to welfare, I damned well do think recipients owe us something in return. To get an education and figuring out what their goals in life are.

I can imagine this entire thread going for days lambasting that Republican and never going any further than that.

Poverty is a lot like Race. People on both sides of the aisle don't really want to talk about it and very often the supposed liberals end up being as patronizing as the right wingers are hateful.

[phantom power]

5. Sure, except...

we live in a country where taxpayers can barely be convinced to kindasorta fund education for their children much less (re)education for the poor, unemployed, homeless, etc.

[KittyWampus]

7. So your model is to just keep giving people welfare? Brilliant.

My point?

If you want things to change, you do have to go further than simply giving hand outs.

Whatever, your reply demonstrates my point about no one really wanting to really discuss Poverty.

[tonysam]

25. I really believe you are on the wrong board.

It sounds as if you have never been around struggling people in your whole goddamned life.

[KittyWampus]

45. I really believe you have trouble comprehending what other DU"ers write. And it's actually

just proving my point about people not having the guts to talk about Poverty and Race honestly.

I lived hand to mouth for quite a while. So don't lecture me.

And go back and actually read my posts.

[rhett o rick]

54. I dont understand why the admins allow DU'ers spout hate for liberals. nt

[KittyWampus]

83. Well, I would be classified as a Social Democrat, so I AM liberal. Nothing I posted

comes close to expressing hatred for a liberal stance.

In fact, providing an Education to all is considered a cornerstone of liberalism in America.

[rhett o rick]

104. "and very often the supposed liberals end up being as patronizing as the right wingers are hateful."

[Raineyb]

29. Well it would be better than having people starve to death.

In addition, allowing people to get the skills necessary to find a job that will take them out of poverty and giving them some time to do so rather than cutting them off instantly would help as well.

Why is it that in this country we acknowledge that an education (and I mean more than just a GED or High school diploma) is necessary to get ahead but we don't even allow that to happen? So if you're poor you can't get a job that pays living wages but if you dare try to get welfare, don't try to do what's needed to get that job because education is for people who can pay for it.

[tonysam]

31. Scapegoating the poor makes some well-to-do people feel comfortable

and superior.

However, there are structural problems in our economy now having little to do with "handouts." It has to do with few jobs being CREATED.

There are MILLIONS falling through the cracks, with no end in sight.

I can't believe the ignorant comments about the poor on DU.

[KittyWampus]

43. you are the one who is patronizing people. If you go back to my first and subsequent posts

you would see that I highlighted EDUCATION.

But again, so often DU'ers just prove my point.

It's more important for you to prove how smart and supposedly liberal you are than to read what others post and have an HONEST discussion.

My point is to have a network where people can get the education they need to do things for themselves.

I try to further the discussion by not just lambasting the Republicans hateful statements by going into what poor people actually need.

Go ahead and patronize poor people. According to you apparently they can't or won't ever be able to do anything to help themselves.

[laughingliberal]

68. Absolutely! Scapegoating the poor has allowed the wealthy to justify shirking their

responsibilities since Reagan transferred their tax burden to us and told them that just getting filthy rich was all they needed to do.

[KittyWampus]

47. Maybe you missed my MAIN POINT which was the need for EDUCATION.

[rhett o rick]

56. Maybe we can give a lunch chit for every class they sign up for. nt

[KittyWampus]

58. Ooooooo, your solution after providing food and shelter is?

[laughingliberal]

78. Restore the Pell grants. Fund public schools. Stop this push for privatizing the system.

Fund some retraining programs for workers whose jobs are gone and not coming back. Now, do we have anyone in either party who is likely to do any of this? I don't see them. We're going the other direction.

[KittyWampus]

99. What I believe will start happening is families living together to a much greater extent

In the near term, I think Americans are going to realize how spoiled many of us have become regarding the size of our homes. People in their 20-30's-40's losing homes and moving back in with parents or siblings. Or basements and second floors getting rented out.

Where I live there's an extreme lack of affordable housing. My proposal is that the local Democrats should support making it easier families to set up safe apartments in their homes to rent out. Do it legally and properly. People are doing it anyway. I learned to keep my mouth shut.

I also think we are going to see people moving beyond money system and start bartering within communities way more.

If the grid becomes out of too many citizens reach, then people will start leaving the grid behind.

I've heard several people talking about ditching Cable TV.

I am looking at the horror of no longer being able to afford Blue Cross premiums which rose from $500 to $500 monthly. MONTHLY.

[billh58]

101. I understand the

point you are attempting to make regarding education being necessary to end a "cycle" of poverty, but you are also missing a salient point being made: without jobs, education does not feed anyone. I know several well educated people right now who are facing homelessness because they have lost their jobs. I read and hear about hundreds of thousands of "educated" Americans who are facing the same bleak future.

On the flip side of your argument for education as being the "key" to solving the problem of poverty, poor people do indeed have many opportunities for education in the public system. Not just basic education, but technical and trade training opportunities are available in most communities. Without the basic needs of food, clothing, shelter, and transportation, however, it is extremely difficult for these people to jump-start the process of becoming educated. Primary and secondary school systems which provide both transportation and food programs are doing a great job of filling the needs of Americans who live below the poverty line, but we as a nation could do better.

The Republicans always cite the few worst-case examples of "welfare cheats," while ignoring their own corporate welfare pimps and whores, and the greed that furthers their hatred for those they have willfully impoverished socially, economically, educationally, and medically.

Education is a means to an end, and a good one. Breaking the cycle of poverty begins with a level playing field that provides equal social and economic opportunity to ALL citizens.

[rhett o rick]

103. I was guessing at your solution. Maybe you can tell us YOUR solution. nt

[Raineyb]

67. No I didn't. But you certainly missed the part about PAYING for it.

And you've not addressed it AT ALL unless you think a minimum wage job will pay for tuition. Welfare as it's set up does not allow people to get that education in the first place. Or did you miss the part where I lamented that bit?

[KittyWampus]

75. Well, our tax dollars on the Federal level could be paying for free University, couldn't it?

Rather than paying for the Military Industrial Complex, wouldn't it?

Our Public Schools would be funded properly if we used state taxes and distributed them equally across districts, wouldn't it?

Many states now have Right To Work laws that drive down wages and weaken Unions. That should change, shouldn't it?

It's sort of sad that stating Education is Key ends up being in dispute.

[laughingliberal]

88. I believe we should be doing a lot of things for people that we don't do and

that no one in our government is advocating for. I think the alarm is starting the discussion with a demonization of the poor is going to get services cut and people out on the streets. That's what is driving this discussion. Put the systems in place. Then, we can talk about getting people off the welfare rolls. Instead we are likely to see the same problem we have due to Ronnie's cuts for mental health. Our mentally ill live in boxes on the street, now.

[KittyWampus]

106. But that's what is at the bottom of Bauer's statement. He wants people to not be dependent.

Yes, he starts from a hateful place that blames people for being victims of a corrupt economic system.

But without knowing it- he left himself open to the demand that people be given the necessary tool for success. And that's Education, IMO.

In other words, going back to my original post and intent- why just dump on Bauer? Why not take what he says and fling it back at him?

Take his premise that people shouldn't just be feed and housed and tell him "THAT'S RIGHT, THEY NEED EDUCATION TOO!"

Okay, maybe i should have said 'education and higher wages and jobs".

Or I should have worked on how I expressed that thought?

[Raineyb]

116. Education is not in dispute. Saying it's key then not addressing how its

supposed to be paid for is rather pointless. It's like telling the homeless person that the solution to their homelessness is to buy a house without taking into consideration that the person has no way to pay for it.

[Missy Vixen]

57. Oh, let's talk about this

Let's take a look at welfare in the context of South Carolina, for instance.

South Carolina's educational standard is "minimally adequate". Please read that again. They offer as little as they choose to, and claim they're meeting the state standard for public education. In other words, the leadership (?) of the state has been starving the have-nots re: educational standards for years, while the "haves" go to private schools that DON'T have crumbling buildings, teachers that are certified, etcetera. We won't even get into who lives in the "have-not" neighborhoods. After all, they're just "stray animals". Without even a basic education, what on God's green earth can those people expect to do for a living, especially right now?

Here's an article about Ty'sheoma Bethea and the conditions at her school in South Carolina, for instance. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-school-stimulusfeb12,0,1891849.story

I couldn't find a dollar amount for per-month public assistance in South Carolina on the state's website last night. I know Washington State's is tiny. I'll be calling the Department of Social Services in SC tomorrow; I covered this story on my blog, and I'd like to give my readers the accurate information about the princely sum I'm sure these folks are living on.

Fifty-eight percent of children in South Carolina are on free or reduced lunches. If that is not a wake-up call for the rest of the country, I'm not sure what is. In other words, those who live there either can't find jobs, or the work doesn't pay a living wage.

>If you want things to change, you do have to go further than simply giving hand outs.<

What is it that you suggest? I can't wait to read it. Let's have a plan. If you are so convinced you know how to pull anyone out of the hopeless cycle that is poverty, let's hear your ideas, especially in a state governed by Repukes who think they are nothing more than human refuse. They're not going to lift a finger (or spend one thin dime,) to change anything, are they?

In the meantime, if you're defending Bauer's comments, you are definitely at the wrong board.

:mad:

[KittyWampus]

64. Just out of curiosity, I called his statement hateful. Does that sound like I defended it?

At no point did I suggest or imply that people in need should not get adequate food or housing.

#1. South Carolina is a Right To Work State, isn't it?

So wages are kept low. EDUCATE people about this and help them organize against it.

#2. Raising Minimum Wage

#3 There needs to be a New Deal type program where people can get jobs. Especially Stepping Stone Jobs.

You know, I think I'll just link to an old website that has a handy list of ideas for addressing Poverty- it's from Edwards' campaign. I wasn't a supporter of him as a candidate but he had a good grasp:

http://johnedwards.com/issues/poverty/

At the very end here's something that I think illustrates part of what I am getting at

Invest in Family Literacy: Thirty million American adults have very limited literacy skills; the children of functionally illiterate parents are twice as likely to be illiterate themselves. John Edwards will restore funding for family literacy programs, which address the educational needs of both parents and children, and give them the support they deserve.

[Missy Vixen]

79. And you completely miss the point

South Carolina is a right-to-work state in the stranglehold of Republican leadership. Sanford was a nut, and Bauer seems to set a whole new bar for incompetence. The people currently living there are just trying to stay alive. Asking them to "organize" for a futile and unworkable "solution" won't work. They don't have the resources to relocate and try it again.

How many of the parents of the 58% of the kids on reduced or free lunches in South Carolina are even making minimum wage? How quickly do you believe any effort to raise the minimum wage in that state would be ratified?

"New Deal" type program? President Obama isn't interested. He's already proven he's not interested in anything of the kind. After all, we'll just wait for the money to trickle down.

Here's a fact: There are currently three million jobs. There are fifteen million people going after those jobs. What do you think is going to happen?

John Edwards has managed to make himself and his ideas poisonous. Considering the fact he's not even funding the scholarship program he started in the memory of his son, he's the last guy I'd count on for workable solutions re: poverty and literacy.

Literacy is a great thing. However, again, the current administration has already shown they're not invested in literacy, there's lots of talk but little action on education, and there are people all over the country who go to bed every night (if they're lucky enough to live inside,) knowing that "hope" and "change" are nothing more than empty platitudes. ANY change is going to have to come from the White House, and we've already seen that we can't count on that.

[KittyWampus]

81. Well, you didn't post anything I didn't know or dispute. But thanks for reminding me

the situation is hopeless.

[laughingliberal]

91. It does seem hopeless

With no leadership at the top ready to stand up for us, it seems that way. As the poster above said, how are people who are homeless or just barely hanging on to shelter and enough food to survive supposed to rally any support from the Goldman-Sachs administration?

[KittyWampus]

92. In the 60's, the Churches helped organize. Right now, it seems like Unions are what

we've got.

In response to the SCOTUS ruling the other day, I posted a thread about Card Check Legislation. Sank like a stone.

[laughingliberal]

96. Three decades of union busting has left them fangless

The administration and the Senate seem to be lukewarm about card check. And we had posters on DU supporting the damned excise tax on benefits in the Senate HCR bill. Yes, until those of us not in the 1% learn who the enemy is and quit squabbling among ourselves, fighting over their scraps, nothing is going to change.

[newspeak]

66. he's talking about assistance, now, at a time where people are losing

their jobs; and people are trying to find work. There are so many jobs to go around; and this country is losing them day by day. There are three ways of keeping people away from the job market(finite jobs). One way is extending education, but the government is cutting back and making it harder for people to extend their educations; another way, is having people on the dole, especially mothers who have small children, but they've cutback on assistance to those "welfare queens" and expect them to get a job in a depleted market AND pay for daycare; last prisons, well, since they've been privatizing prisons it's been quite the little money maker, with one of the highest prison populations in the world, I guess the more people who find themselves on the street after losing their job, they can go to prison. Oh, I know, maybe they can just DIE--maybe they should just euthanize them, like those stray animals.:sarcasm:

[KittyWampus]

93. what about a Federal program for micro-loans? They employ people and strengthen communities

[laughingliberal]

76. Until someone funds programs to address the underlying problems, yes

It's all well and good to know what people need to get out of poverty but if we aren't going to do that (and it does not look as if either party has any interest in that), then, yes. I want people to be able to sleep indoors, eat, and feed their children, Yes, I do.

[meow2u3]

6. What's the use of retraining and re-educating the workforce....

when the bosses take the jobs overseas? It's tough to teach someone to fish when the lake is empty.

(on edit: corrected subject)

[KittyWampus]

8. Empowerment means taking it upon yourself to demand the lake be protected and restocked

as well as access to the lake.

It also means having a broad enough vision to move on to planting seeds if the lake is no longer viable.

[tonysam]

26. You need to talk to Barbara Ehrenreich.

The poor are poor because they don't work hard enough.

Shit, how fucking ignorant.

[KittyWampus]

49. You need to actually read what I wrote and stop trying to pretend to be some kind of authority

ANYONE who works with people on the low end of the economic ladder says point blank- there needs to be a network geared towards empowering people and not just making them dependent.

[laughingliberal]

40. Oh, yes. Cause the poor have been so successful at demanding what they need. nt

[KittyWampus]

51. What do you think Community Organizers do? Why do you think Republicans demonized Obama

and activists like Saul Alinsky?

[laughingliberal]

71. Republicans demonized Obama cause he's a Democrat

Would be nice to see some of that hard left policies the Republicans keep telling us he's instituting. Instead, I see his Secretary of Education running around the country busily working to privatize the public school system.

[KittyWampus]

72. I do not like Arne Duncan nor do I support Vouchers. I DO support Public Education

and making sure kids get the Education they need and their parents are also functionally literate.

I also acknowledge the need for parents to value Education.

How fucked up is that I say Education is Key and somehow DU'ers feel a need to demonize that.

[laughingliberal]

82. I think what some of us see, at times is people who can bash on welfare recipients

without wanting to address the problems of poverty. We can say they need education but until we are prepared to fund programs which will give them a real opportunity for that, it's pointless to talk about ending the culture of dependency. And we see no one in either party willing to pony up to create the opportunities. They want to cut the social safety net (which is shot full of holes as it is) and just leave people to fend for themselves.

There is, obviously, nothing wrong with saying education is what's needed but to talk about cutting welfare programs when we still have nothing in place for education and no one proposing anything in that direction looks like just another way to screw to poor a little more.

[KittyWampus]

86. I must not be expressing my self adequately, then. But when did we stop demanding

adequate Schools?

Have we just given up?

And I didn't say a word at all about cutting welfare programs.

My point is, Welfare Programs need to become more comprehensive and part of a wider network that includes Education.

[laughingliberal]

98. We agree about the need for a more comprehensive solution

I'm not sure anyone has given up on demanding anything. No one is listening. I am so angry at the Obama administration who has spent gargantuan sums of money to keep Wall Street and the banks afloat and let the Republicans whittle down the stimulus designed to get people back on their feet. How do we get through to an administration more concerned with taking care of the wealthy than starting to address the problems of the rest of us? I have some hope that I've seen Obama put Volcker and Warren out front the past week but, on the other hand, he's still pushing the Benanke nomination. I fear we will see nothing more than window dressing in regards to the needs of working and middle class Americans and will be lucky to even get a shout out to the poor.

[KittyWampus]

105. My Little Pony- if you were to click on My Journal you'd probably figure out

what my particular "pony" is.

I wanted and want a more progressive economic team at Federal level too.

Is it realistic to expect any president to drive a stake through the corporate/financial sector all in one grand gesture?

There are so many ways for that private sector to retaliate. It seems like a delicate operation. Like removing a brain tumor. If you don't go slowly, you might end up with a brain dead patient.

That's what I keep telling myself and arguing with people who've just given up on Obama

But then if I didn't remain optimistic I'd get very dark indeed.

[laughingliberal]

108. I don't think any of us thought the president would drive a stake through the heart

of the corporate/financial sector in one grand gesture. Neither did we expect to see him full speed ahead on the same failed policies. The choice of Geithner, Summers, Emanuel, Bernanke are not an indication he has any intention of changing this supply side, people destroying path we have been on since Reagan. I hope the appearance of the wake up call we have seen the past week is real but that remains to be seen. As long as he still has the DLC/Goldman Sachs economic team in there I have no real hope he intends to do anything for working or middle class Americans, let alone the poor.

I don't think it matters whether I give up on Obama or not. He's going to do what he's going to do regardless of my feelings about it. I still email several times a week. Maybe that is a sign of not giving up. But optimism is a stretch for us these days. A good day is the truck starts and we have enough gas to get to our shop and have enough work to buy food this week.

[meow2u3]

87. That's my point

It's no point to teach a person to fish only to deny him or her access to the lake.

[KittyWampus]

90. don't you think it's good to inform people it's their right to DEMAND access to the lake?

And to get them to encourage them do just that?

[tonysam]

24. What do you mean "education"?

They are going to go to school to train for jobs that don't exist? What makes you think "the poor" are all a bunch of illiterate hicks? Do you even read the papers and know what is going on with the economy before you post something as offensive as your post?

I think you need to be around a few people who are struggling before being all self-righteous about it.

Your remarks are the ones which are patronizing.

[Leopolds Ghost]

33. You know what, I'm so glad you chose to post your tripe on this thread

So people can see that folks like you exist ALL OVER the Democratic Party, not just the Republican Party.

[tonysam]

35. I couldn't believe nonsense like that was posted here

without a "sarcasm" tag.

It's really offensive, and even more so now that the nation's unemployment rate continues to be high and few jobs are being created.

[donco6]

115. It certainly has been eye-opening.

Wow.

[laughingliberal]

39. It does no good to teach people to fish if the lakes have all been drained

Education is one of the keys. A way to live and feed themselves while they are getting the education is good. The push within the current administration to privatize our education is not a path to expanding access, btw.

My astonishment is to see the demands for something in return from those most in need who got barely enough help to subsist and were demoralized in the process from people who think nothing about the welfare for those at the rich who have gotten their tax cuts on the backs of the everyone else. We have paid the increased payroll tax that Reagan put through and the surplus in the trust fund has been funding the government all these years. Now, they are about to start a commission to recommend ways to not pay back what they have taken out of our money in the SS and Medicare trust funds.

I'm not as concerned as seeing the poor who have received assistance giving something back until I see those mooches at the top give back what they've gained off our work. How long before we realize that's who's been stealing from us by covering what once would have been covered with their taxes with our payroll tax money. Now, they're gonna steal it for good.

edited typo: withing to within

[KittyWampus]

55. Wait, now all a sudden you decide "education is good"? But you just demonized me for saying

Education is the Key.

Make up your mind.

[laughingliberal]

62. Wait, you're making stuff up

I never demonized you for saying education is the key. It is one of the keys but I doubt you would support spending the kind of money that will be needed to truly provide access to education to our poor. After Ronnie cut all the funding for higher education so the wealthy could avoid their responsibilities to our society, it was the end of that hope for the truly poor. We would need to restore the Pell grants and give people something to live on while they get the education. I was lucky. I graduated just before the patron saint of the idle rich cut funding for higher education. The current administration is full steam ahead on privatizing the public school system so access will be more uneven.

The other keys are if we want to move people from welfare to work it needs to be into jobs that don't cost them more. Does no good to move a mother out into some low paid job where transportation to and from work and child care costs her more that she's making.

[KittyWampus]

69. well, both my parents were school teachers. Now, why would you doubt I'd support

"spending the kind of money that will be needed to truly provide access to education to our poor"

I am a Social Democrat who thinks we should fund schools by spreading tax money evenly across all school districts.

I also support free University for students who qualify as they do in Europe.

And I've posted that through out my time on DU. Easily searchable through DU's archives.

So maybe, just maybe your hyperventilating is based on something that had less to do with my original assertion and more to do with your own need to prove how smart you are and a kneejerk reaction to someone who actually does want to see Poverty addressed on a national scale.

[laughingliberal]

74. Until we have those systems in place which no one seems to be working to get

It is ridiculous to talk about 'getting something back' from the poor who have received assistance. It's all well and good to say education is the key but we have an administration who is trying to privatize the public school system now. I want to see Poverty addressed. I've been made very poor in this economy and am not sleeping on the streets due to the help of some friends who have given us a place to sleep. But this OP about the culture of dependency is the same old 'welfare queen' crap. Reform the system just by cutting social programs without being willing to put anything in place to move people out of poverty.

Do you think Bauer is advocating to, actually, fix those problems to stop the culture of dependency.

[KittyWampus]

77. I disagree. All States should provide adequate Food, Shelter and Education. Just saying

Food and Shelter doesn't cut it for me in terms of solving the problem of Poverty.

And no, I think Bauer is hateful.

However, what good does it do to just trash him and how likely will any thread about his comments involve anything close to a real discussion about Poverty?

[laughingliberal]

84. Just providing food and shelter does not cut it for me, either

but, until we're prepared to resolve the underlying issues, that's what we've got. Neither party is wanting to do anything about it. I had hope that a Democrat coming into office with majorities in Congress would tackle some of this. But, I haven't seen one indication we're going that way.

What good it does to trash him is we don't want to see the assistance cut and have people left without shelter and food. And that is what we've seen for 30 years-deep cuts to programs for helping people survive with no help to get them out of there.

[KittyWampus]

89. Sad thing, a significant number of people who voted for Bauer are probably poor.

If you read this reply, would you agree with that?

There are some people who vote for guys like Bauer and against their own economic self interest?

[laughingliberal]

94. Yes, I agree with that. And a whole hell of a lot of people who think they're making it

and have no idea how close to the edge they are probably vote for the asshole with no concept of how quickly this top down economy can roll right over them. And we have no one who is advocating policies to end the top down economy. Voting for Bauer is stupid. But voting for anyone else isn't changing anything, either. We are on the verge of becoming a fascist, feudal state and both parties are moving us right along towards that destination.

[KittyWampus]

97. I'd say we already are in a feudal system since so few are self-employed. The Guild System

was a big part of how the feudal system began to foster a middle class.

IMO, Unions are the vehicle we have left.

Some DU'ers have talked about the need for a General Strike. And after the SCOTUS ruling, I'd now agree. But the likelihood of that happening without Unions being strengthened seems remote.

Oh, Unions and small businesses and bartering.

[laughingliberal]

100. I agree. I have no idea how we get there, though

My husband is self employed since 1982. He never got rich but made a decent living. Between the 2 of us we were making it. The business began failing in 2006 with the housing market. I'm an RN and collapsed in 2007 unable to keep pushing with the higher demands of productivity every year. After 25 years, I just couldn't make it, anymore. The work loads of nurses have literally doubled since I graduated in 1982. We have lost everything and I am over 50, he's over 60. I see no way we will ever recover. His business still brings in enough for us to eat and buy gas to go to work. We are very likely to wind up on the streets. So far, we have friends who provide us with a place to sleep. I was middle class 4 years ago and am now destitute. It is too late for us but I would hope things can still turn around for those who can still come back or those just starting out. But I don't know what the answers are. Every single piece of programs that could help have been systematically dismantled and weakened over 3 decades. And it feels quite hopeless.

[HippieCowgirl]

48. Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set him on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life

[panzerfaust]

50. Teach a man to fish: Then he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day

[rhett o rick]

52. I am glad you post here. Gives us a chance to see how the other half thinks.

Your statement: "So when it comes to welfare, I damned well do think recipients owe us something in return. To get an education and figuring out what their goals in life are."

First shows you have no empathy which means to me that you and I dont share the same Democratic principles.

Second shows that you know nothing of poverty. Many would love to give generous you something in return. They would love to get an education. But most are consumed with eking out a living. After generation in poverty many have no hope.

And we, because of people like you, are the only modern country to force our college students to go into huge debt to get an education.

Giving a starving child a meal isnt solving the problem but it is the decent thing to do. Liberals would like to solve the problem but libertarians like you fight us every step of the way.

Just say it, let the poor people starve.

[KittyWampus]

70. Wait, so you disagree we should be providing Education along with adequate Food and Housing?

Again,

I support spreading tax money across school districts equally.
I also support free University for those who qualify (as in Europe).

So what exactly are you reacting to but YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS?

[rhett o rick]

109. Please dont put words into my mouth. You indicated that you dont like feeding

the starving without getting something in return. One big difference between Democrats and republicans is empathy.

[yowzayowzayowza]

73. Your "Golden Key" is yet another false idle as

many of Gods children cannot be educated into self sufficiency, goal figgerin' notwithstanding. One should expect ignorance of that fact to yield all sorts of abuse.

[Jackpine Radical]

102. Get all the education you want,

and if all the jobs are in India and China, you still won't have a job.

[Iris]

28. how can you even have a culture without depending on one another?

I mean, if everyone just does his/her own thing regardless of the pain and suffering of others and all its consequences, can you even say you have a culture?

[tonysam]

32. That poster obviously believes in the myth of Horatio Alger

It's perhaps the most destructive, pernicious myth out there. Only the very rich can pull themselves up without help, for they are already born on home plate.

[laughingliberal]

63. +1000 nt

[donco6]

114. Bingo.

It's so obvious, but she'll never see it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. +1

[roguevalley]

120. his addie. send him some love.

[e-mail]

[Jamastiene]

3. It is better to remain silent and be seen as a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

That is what my grandmother told me. I'll take my grandmother over yours any day, Bauer, you fucking asshole.

[peacetalksforall]

9. 'people who don't think too much further than that' includes you, Mr. Bauer.

"......They will reproduce, especially ones that don't think too much further than that. And so what you've got to do is you've got to curtail that type of behavior. They don't know any better."

[Tim01]

10. The republican voters only see the dirtbags.

I have personal experience with the welfare system. It's recipients are a few different basic groups of people. And it is true that one of those groups is the people who won't work. People who honestly think they are more special than other people, smarter than the suckers who get up and go to work every day. These same people are often supplementing their income selling drugs, and running scams. They park their immaculate Lexuses, Mercedes, and BMWs in my parking lot when they go to pick up their food stamps and such.

Unfortunately it is really easy to get the republicans to see nothing but the dirtbags, which is what the politicians do, divide and conquer. And republicans HATE the dirtbags. Average republican voters very quickly loose this hard edge when they are shown the working poor and handicapped who are getting these services. Republicans are all about "sink or swim" until one of their family members gets laid off or sick. Then they change their tune real quick.
But dividing us up into teams is what the politicians do, because it works so very well.

[Leopolds Ghost]

44. What in God's green earth are you talking about? Republicans ARE dirtbags...

I mean, you may have qualms, but don't go believing that Republicans care
about your opinion of the relative merits of individual welfare recipients. That way lies damnation!



... and I don't give a tuppeny fuck about what you think about "dirtbag" welfare recipients parking in your parking lot... That's basically the thing.



...and Americans at large are constantly trying to "get one over on each other." your righteous indignation is duly noted. And mine.

[Leopolds Ghost]

53. Another thing: If all these "Welfare cadillacs" exist, why do you lump them in with poor people?

I don't hear people going around criticizing elderly grandmothers for asking handouts because of Social Security fraud.

Sounds to me like the (mythical) Welfare Cadillacs and Panhandlers with Mercedes you are talking about are actually Republican voters / constituents, given their salary.

[Tim01]

59. Then, I'll just say I don't respect you or your opinion. And you don't seem very bright.

You want to be a child? Go ahead. I have little patience for hysterics. Try to get a grip on your emotions.

[Leopolds Ghost]

60. Since you have so much experience with welfare, I assume you are either a recipient or a provider.

If you are a recipient, why are you lumping in (alleged, no details provided) cases of welfare FRAUD with ACTUAL welfare recipients?

And if you are a provider, why should I give a damn what you think about welfare recipients' "willingness to work"?

[Tim01]

65. You have caused me to have no respect for you. You are not worth my time.

Find somebody else to talk to. I'm done.

First person ever on my ignore list.

[joeybee12]

11. Hey Bauer, your grandmother was an asshole, strays breed even if

you don't feed them.

Great, he's scum and his grandmother was a heartless %$@$.

[Raschel]

18. I thought the same. What a mean grandma.

[whyverne]

12. Soon to be 7 billion people in the world.

And the problem is they don't work hard enough?

I don't get it, what are they suppossed to work at?

Are the Haitians lazy? They cut down every tree on the island. That's not lazy, but they would have been better off if they hadn't done that.

[Gman2]

13. His grandmother should have a culrling iron shoved up her conscience.

[Toots]

14. Jesus would NEVER want anyone to feed the poor, it would make them breed.

Jesus doesn't want people to breed..

[Raschel]

19. Maybe his uneducated granny had a different Bible.

Whatever you do to the least of these you don't do to me.

Do unto others whatever serves you best.

Whatever you judge others with is okay, you won't be judged by the same.

[Gman2]

21. Solar power would have helped. Soon, we'll get scientology hands layed on, instead of

social safety net, retirement, health care, vote.

[alteredstate]

15. Please sign this petition --- Join Senator Vincent Sheheen in demanding an apology from Andre Bauer!

http://vincentsheheen.com/blog/demand-lt-gov-bauer-apologize



And nominate Bauer for Olbermann's "Worst Person"!

[e-mail]

[treestar]

16. This asshole is still trying to defend that?

OMG.

[90-percent]

17. Bauer

Based on what comes out of his mouth, he's a great candidate for involuntary forced sterilization. We can't let imbeciles like that reproduce and wreck our magnificent gene pool.

-90% Jimmy

:sarcasm:

[Marr]

22. The French aristocracy said things like that, and eventually

wished they'd just given that bear a sandwich.

[lunatica]

23. No wonder Bauer is so fucking mean

That one quote from his grandmother explains a lot.

[tonysam]

27. You've got people posting right on this thread

about the poor being nothing but a bunch of bums on the dole and they don't work "hard enough" or get "educated" to get themselves out of the hole they are in.

[tonysam]

30. Perhaps Ornery Andre shouldn't be allowed to breed himself

According to Wikipedia, he's a danger both on the road and in the air:

According to his driving record with the South Carolina Department of Motor Vehicles, Bauer has had at least two accidents, four tickets and one suspended license for failure to pay a ticket. On May 6, 2003, Bauer was stopped on Assembly Street in downtown Columbia, South Carolina for running two red lights and speeding up to 60 mph in a 35 mph zone. The officer drew his gun after Bauer got out of the car and began heading toward the officer's car in an "aggressive manner." He was issued a ticket for reckless driving.<1> On December 26, 2005, Bauer got a warning for speeding (77 mph in a 65 mph zone) in Laurens County, South Carolina. On February 25, 2006, Bauer was pulled over for speeding over 100 mph in Chester County, South Carolina in a state-issued car, but he was allowed to proceed without a ticket or warning.<2>

On May 23, 2006, Bauer was injured in a single-engine airplane crash shortly after taking off from a small airfield in Blacksburg, South Carolina.<3> Bauer, who was the pilot of the Mooney M20E single-prop airplane, and his passenger escaped the wreckage with minor injuries before the plane caught fire. Bauer had surgery for his shattered left heel.<4> The incident was voted "Best Political Stunt in 2006" by readers of the Free Times alternative weekly tabloid.<5> However, the June 11, 2009, court ruling concluded that the wrong parts were put into the engine. “By overhauling the engine and returning it to service with incorrect bolts installed, respondent created an unnecessary risk in engine performance,” wrote Administrative Judge Richard C. Goodwin. “Materials and techniques specified in maintenance manuals must be followed in order to best ensure safe engine, and aircraft, performance. Carelessly departing from these requirements placed those protections at risk.”

And I thought Nevada was bad for stupid politicians.

[Leopolds Ghost]

36. How many kids has this guy had? The reason I ask is, the rich are a problem in this country.

[alteredstate]

80. Andre has no children.

eom

[tonysam]

107. Good thing he doesn't. n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

34. the original thread on this is negative recced. Too many Dems still support ending welfare

and killing off Public Housing, like Obama and Clinton have been doing in New Orleans.

So much for the New Deal...

[laughingliberal]

37. Unbelievable! nt

[Beaverhausen]

38. Please tell me there is a goo democratic candidate running against him

[alteredstate]

41. We have a terrific candidate running against him.

Actually, there are two really good Democrats running in the Democratic primary.

[rhett o rick]

42. If you believe in unrestrained capitalism, you must accept that people will just have to starve. nt

[Leopolds Ghost]

46. Greenspan said as much.

[bobbolink]

110. Then the truly HUMANE thing to do would be to offer ALL of us homeless

reprobates a comfortable and painless "exit".

The message is very clearly as you state... that we are to die.

Forcing us to do it by our own hand is unspeakably cruel.

[rhett o rick]

113. Yes, I wonder how Ayn Rand would define HUMANE. nt

[bobbolink]

117. Your first mistake would be to assume that she even THINKS about it.

:-(

[Pharlo]

61. Grandma may not have been 'highly educated',

but she had no street smarts either. I'm surprised she lived long enough to be a grandmother who could pass on thoughts of pure BS to her equally dense progeny.

The truth is, stray animals will breed whether you feed them or not. They will also find food elsewhere or starve. So, what grandma was REALLY saying, and Andre wasn't quite bright enough to catch on was "out of sight, out of mind." Cause, if you can't see an animal starving to death, it won't bother you. Just like Andre doesn't care if people are starving in the streets - as long as he doesn't have to see it or read about it - as long as he's not the one who has to be bothered to help them.

His opponents need to spin this as Bauer being 'pro-starvation for the poor'. Because, that is the essential message of this quote of his - poor people should be allowed to starve to death - AND, have the decency to do it where he can't see it, or hear about it.

Another subtle lesson from Dim Bulb Bauer's grandma that was too obscure for him to grasp was that "Animals can smell an asshole from a mile away and will try to avoid them. Be an asshole, and you won't be bothered."

[anonymous171]

85. His grandmother was a terrible human being.

[Zomby Woof]

95. He was right about his grandmother

She was one stupid mean old crusty twat.

[REP]

111. My grandmother was a horrible, mean bitch but even she fed strays

She really was an awful, terrible person but even she had some shreds of decency. I never thought I'd hear of a grandmother worse than mine, but there she is. Mine, who was born in 1895, did graduate college though - even though it took throwing a major trantrum to get het father to let her go!

[alteredstate]

112. Bauer responds: “maybe the stray animals wasn’t the best metaphor.”

Well, that makes me feel better !:eyes:

[winyanstaz]

118. What a stupid, cruel and uncaring person this Bauer is....

[Maru Kitteh]

128. And now we know where he got it from. His grandma. Nature or nurture?

Now there's a worthwhile study. Are these bastards born this way or do the their heartless old grandparents mold them that way?

[eilen]

119. I can't believe this guy. Did he forget he is a politician?

He is not a radio host a la Michael Savage nor Rush Limbaugh. They can get away with shit like this because it brings attention to them and controversy raises ratings. However...

this does not follow for politicians who rely on voters to put them in office.

So not only is he a sociopathic nasty wanker, he is also stupid as the snow is white.

[alteredstate]

121. The majority of SC voters agree with Bauer.

His comments will bolster his run for Governor.

[eilen]

125. Wow, really?

Boy if that doesn't raise a warning for those aspiring to relocate. Not that S. Carolina was on my list to begin with.

[blindpig]

130. I'd disagree with that

The majority of SC voters are a hop and a skip from poverty themselves.

The ruling class, that's another story. That little 'gaff' was for them, and will reap campaign contributions, no doubt.

[Orsino]

124. He is a heartbeat away from Mark Sanford's job.

And about three neurons off.

[alteredstate]

126. This is truly scary.

Having Sanford as a Governor is bad, but if Bauer took over, things would be even worse.

[deacon]

122. And it blows my mind that voters will possibly sit home and allow these dirtbags to get back into

power.

[Robyn66]

123. I was raised by republicans so I had a similar opinion about people on public assistance UNTIL

One day when I was working my cashier job in high school (about 25 years ago *gag*)

This older lady was in my line and she gestured to me to lean to close to her so she could whisper something to me.

What I hadn't noticed before was the young woman standing behind her with her head down who looked like she had been crying.

The older lady told me she was the mother of the younger lady who had just left her abusive husband and she had to get food stamps. She was so humiliated, she could not bring herself to go through the check out line herself. My heart broke for her on the spot.

I couldn't blame her. Most of us sneered at the people on food stamps. Sometimes we saw people who abused the system but most of the time we were pretty much assholes to these people because food stamps (at least in the 80's) required calling a manager over and giving change in plastic coins. So they were a major pain in the ass. Plus teenagers in general (including myself I am ashamed to say) felt that these people somehow deserved to be treated like this if they were eating "free"

That day changed my attitude and set me on the road to being a liberal. It took me quite a long time before I really was able to shake off all of the prejudices I was brought up with but I remember that day like it was yesterday. And I hope that woman is ok now.

The biggest joke about Bauer is I am SURE he is anti choice and he would put a gun to the head of a woman to make sure she had an unwanted baby.

These people make me sick!

[Maru Kitteh]

127. Well I do hope that abused woman was able to "figure out what she wants to do with her life" and pay

up what some other people in this thread thinks she apparently "owed" them.

What I find amazing is the dirt-ignorant, let-them-eat-cake style statements by people on this very thread who like to pretend they are liberals or know a damn thing about poverty just because they were sometimes short on cash around the college years.

[Robyn66]

129. That is just sad

I expect better from us!

There is a lot of heartache and poverty out there and people need to be helped not demeaned or made to jump through hoops. The line from Animal Farm comes to mind:

"No question now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."