Go ahead unrec this to your heart's content.

[cali]

Impossible fantasy solutions to real and dire problems, are not helpful. Well, maybe they make some people feel better, but they don't really do anything constructive beyond that. And then there's the outrage that the fantasy solution won't be applied. And a lot of these fantasies wouldn't even play out well in the real world.

I just don't get how so many people can be seduced into this kind of pointless endeavor.

[polly7]

1. Every solution began as someone's fantasy. nt.

[cali]

4. No they weren't.

[polly7]

8. Really? Our universal health care was Tommy Douglas's

fantasy. Every invention, medical breakthrough, everything done worthwhile doing begins as someone's fantasy. Ours here was to develop a womens' shelter begging for donations from anyone we believed would help. It worked. Our fantasy is now a reality. I must be misunderstanding you.

[cali]

13. Those were ideas, not fantasies.

They were practical solutions tailored to real problems. that's the difference and it doesn't require an abundance of brain power to see the difference.

[polly7]

15. Why are you so insulting?

Yes, it was a fantasy. We sat around as a group and said wouldn't it be something, with lots of nah's, no way it can be done. Well, that went on for a few years, eventually someone thought to actually try it, and it worked. Call it what you want, it was considered a fantasy by those who didn't see hope for it. But carry on ...... you seem to know everything.

[laughingliberal]

36. Insulting people with good, liberal ideas is what message discipline is all about

and it's working very well for the party right now. :sarcasm:

[Smarmie Doofus]

2. ???? nt

[azmouse]

3. I hide most of the threads where people say "what they would do".

They have no idea what info the President has to use to make his decisions. It's a pointless exercise for them to speculate the way they do. And most of their suggestions are bullshit anyway.

[FSogol]

5. Agreed. Politics without some element of pragmatism is useless. n/t

[bemildred]

6. You got any more of that? nt

[hlthe2b]

7. I think a lot of people don't have enough understanding of how

our systems work, of the constitution, our governmental makeup, the law, or civics in general. So, by their voicing their (as you say) "fantasy solutions," I guess it gives a chance to flesh these issues out and for others to educate a bit. I mean, how many times have we had DUers post that we should simply recall Lieberman. This is basics Civics 101, yet I heard Ed Schultz momentarily say the same. I don't know what we teach in schools now, but it seems many people-across the generations-- do not have a good foundation in our political and foundational system of government.

[dkf]

9. The senate bill is the fantasy. Increased revenue because employers raise salaries in this economy

Is a Fantasy.

Believing the country won't punish dems for passing a crappy bill is a fantasy.

We are not the ones in la la land.

[patrice]

24. Could you help me with that, please? "Increased revenue because employers

raise salaries in this economy" how/where is that in the senate bill?

? Mandate results in more insurance business? More business results in lower premiums? Lower premiums result in employers handing out raises? Raises increase pay-roll tax revenues.

Why would employers do that when the pressure in the job market is down and they already know for certain sure how low employees will go in their salary requirements?

Plus, even if that whole scenario DID unfold, InsCo is driving it entirely by itself so what InsCo gives, InsCo can take away.

BTW, did that piece that required a certain percentage of premiums, 70%? 90%?, be spent on care make it through the process?

[dkf]

28. That is how most of the Cadillac tax works.

Supposedly it is an excise tax on expensive plans but the cbo who scored the impact on the budget says it will raise revenue when employers go with cheaper health care plans and increase salaries. That is how the senate envisions most of the plan will be paid for. By higher salaries.

[patrice]

32. Not happening. NO ONE is getting a raise and those unemployed who do manage to get

re-employed are taking cuts.

[dkf]

34. Exactly.

The funding is a lie. The cost savings is a lie. The bill won't work. Yet this is the practical realistic approach? give me a break!

[Call Me Wesley]

10. Every solution once started as an idea,

and you can call this original idea what you want: Fantasy, utopian, whatever. Your cynicism is noted.

Without 'this kind of pointless endeavor' we'd probably still hang around in caves and wait for the winter season be over.

[cali]

11. Idea's aren't impossible fantasies.

[Call Me Wesley]

16. Some ideas start as one.

And some cry 'burn the witch!'

[hobbit709]

40. Flying was once considered an impossible fantasy.

[greenbird]

55. I'm not sure about your definition of fantasy

But the plural of idea is ideas.

[patrice]

12. It's all a process that runs on the strength of the relationships between DIFFERENT people.

Key word being "Different"; sameness, no matter how apparently "functional", produces impotence eventually. Impotence, no matter what persona it wears, "fantasy" or "reality", is maladaptive and, hence, dangerous. So the key is RELATIONSHIP and relationship is alive, dynamic, "evergreen", and as balanced as possible, with all involved giving and being given to.

[sendero]

14. I agree..

.... there is zero, I mean zero chance of a SCOTUS justice being impeached.

Our Dem congress can't even do obvious needed things, much less stuff like this.

Nothing but a waste of time to even talk about it.

[kudzu22]

17. Agreed

A lot of people on DU are starting to sound like left-wing versions of Glenn Beck. Treason! Impeach! Revolution! These are the words used by the crazy right. What's next, you going to start hoarding ammo?

Stop it. Yes, it was a bad ruling that hurt us. Yes, we lost the filibuster-proof Senate. It's not the end of the world. We still have an 18-seat majority in the Senate and 70-odd seats in the House. That's more than GWB ever had and he got to do whatever he wanted. We can still get a lot done, but not with this defeatist attitude everyone seems to be sporting.

[Vinnie From Indy]

18. I quit drinking hours ago

This post makes my head hurt. What is the frame of reference here? Is this about children playing in the back yard fighting over whether a bike can be a dragon in their fantasy scenario?

One would also ask the OP how one could know definitively that something is impossible if it has never been attempted? Does the OP discount the value of imagination as part of the human condition? Could one not make the argument that it is precisely that aspect of our species that has allowed us to rise into a global civilization capable of incredible technological feats?

As a factual matter, fantasy solutions are not always unhelpful or unuseful. The use of placebos in medicine is just one example of fantasy that has real life use and effectiveness.

[Call Me Wesley]

22. I just took the OP's words literally.

Not sure if there's a hidden agenda I seem to miss here. :shrug:

Otherwise the Wright Brothers (for an example,) would have just said: "Nahhhh!"

On edit: Looks like a call out of DUers now.

[liberal N proud]

19. As with all the talking heads

If they know how to do things so well, why are they not running the government?

Armchair politicians do nothing to improve the situation just complain.

[Codeine]

20. +1 These people are as delusional as all hell.

They're as unhinged as Birthers at times.

[adamuu]

21. Hey, I have been surprised before

It is the easiest of all human activities, tearing down other human's fledgling ideas.

[Marr]

23. I agree that the 'impeach this or that Justice' talk is

bizarre and completely divorced from reality, but what do you expect? Fantasy solutions are the only ones on offer, so that's what people talk about instead of accepting a grim reality.

I mean, I *think* I remember you cheering Chuck Schumer for setting up a hearing on this subject. To me, expecting a Senate hearing run by a fraud like Schumer to actually do some good is only an ounce or two less ludicrous.

[gristy]

25. ok.

[woo me with science]

26. Supreme Court? Adoption thread? War?

This sounds vaguely like a call-out but it's pretty cryptic.

[NoPasaran]

27. Sign my internet petition against this thread!

We can do this!

[jberryhill]

29. Impeach This Thread /nt

[Enrique]

30. America is NOT READY for a black president

it doesn't do any good to pretend otherwise, as good as it sounds.

[elocs]

31. How ever did that "impeach Bush" fantasy work out, and frog marching him to the Hague?

There were many orgasms here indulging in that pointless endeavor. I wonder how much energy will be wasted with impeaching Supreme Court Justices because that is flat out not going to happen. Plus you would have thought by now that people would have learned that "impeachment" does not mean "conviction".

But I suppose indulging in righteous indignation fantasies is a good substitute for reality.

[datasuspect]

33. the stupid in your post is acting as a brain solvent

it's too early for this shit.

good god.

[treestar]

35. Rec'd

A lot of energy could be wasted following such fantasies.

Many of us keyboard warriors think we could run things better. Thing is, we will never have to prove it!

[Little Star]

37. Hope was also a fantasy solution and a pointless endeavor.

[asdjrocky]

38. On this Cali, you are absolutely and totally 100% wrong.

Dream big, make it happen.

[grahamhgreen]

39. The man who said "I have a dream" got Obama elected - "Yes We Can" was Obama claim, not "no we can't

[snagglepuss]

43. Well said. nt

[hlthe2b]

45. Dreaming big is the goal... We need ideas...

but then we need to apply some pragmatism towards tactics to accomplish these big dreams. I think that is the issue. One can have as big a goal as one can imagine, but to accomplish it, one needs to take a hard look at the obstacles and plan accordingly.

[grahamhgreen]

54. When our leaders are not willing to fight to win, we lose. Dr King was peaceful, but a warrior.

[UTUSN]

41. K&R to attempt to undo the usual, inscrutable UnReKKK, to no avail n/t

[anonymous171]

42. Free Market capitalism started out as a fantasy

And now it is a terrifying reality.

[Stinky The Clown]

44. I got nooz for you, sweetheart ......

This is a computer message board. NOTHING gets "done" here. Some people take it deadly serious. Others use it as a goof. Some exchange ideas, some use it to verbally slap others around. There are lovers, haters, miscreants, and morons here, all mixed together.

For some people, fantasy is a good thing. For others, it is a pressure release valve. For still others, this is just water cooler talk.

And then there are those special few ......

[spanone]

46. perhaps life is a pointless endeavor...dreams spur reality

[Bobbie Jo]

47. Recommended.

I see many have taken your direction with the unrecs. No surprise here.

My rec didn't make a dent, but here it is just the same.

[TexasObserver]

48. I tried, but they only let me vote once.

[Flaneur]

49. Okay. Unrecced for lack of context and content.

Edited to add: "...sweetie."

[Midwestern Democrat]

52. I unrecced for the same reasons. This is just pointless scolding. NT

[Stinky The Clown]

50. Fantasies and dreams are healthy ..... here's a famous one ..... maybe you've heard of it .....

The twenty eighth of August, nineteen hundred and sixty eight. Give it a listen. The speaker's pretty good with that dream of his. It was kind of an event and all .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbUtL_0vAJk

But it was a fantasy at the time. So maybe you wouldn't have found any value in it.

[punkin87]

51. "Why even try, it's hopeless?" What a slogan!

[Edweird]

53. Something that every first world country, EXCEPT US, has IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE FANTASY.

Everyone can see that it is possible and that it works. Those that LIE about it only hurt their own credibility.

[Clintonista2]

56. Done!

eom