National Teacher of the Year tells what he overheard as a fly on the wall

[madfloridian]

at a dinner of politicians who were talking about how to fix education.

This is the blog of Anthony Mullen, special education teacher-- former New York City police officer --named the 59th National Teacher of the Year.

His description of his experience at the dinner is breathtaking. People with no experience in education talking of the future of teachers and education.....lots of that going around right now.

Teachers Should Be Seen and Not Heard

Some random comments from his post:

I am a fly on the wall sitting at a table. Seated at a round table are three state governors, one state senator, a Harvard professor and author, and a strange little man who assumes the role of group moderator. The strange little man asks the group to talk about their experiences at the education conference. The ex governor from the South begins to talk about how the traditional school model is not working and the problem of too many teachers who do not understand what they teach. Teachers, he complains, are not prepared to teach in 21st century classrooms because they possess, in his words, "only 20th century skills." He does not provide specific examples or elaborate upon his theory but the other guests at the table nod their heads in agreement.

A governor from the Midwest first pays homage to the governor from the South. He tells us that his "good friend "is "right on target" about teachers not prepared to teach in 21st century classrooms. The governor from the Midwest thanks the governor from the South for presenting "the best talk at the conference." Not to be undone, the governor from the South responds by telling the governor from the Midwest that he "presented the best talk at the conference." When both men are done patting each other's backs, the Midwest governor complains that teachers, particularly math teachers, don't know their subject materials. Again, the other guests at the table nod their heads in agreement. All is civil.

I would love to know what group came up with the "only 20th century skills" talking point. It's really quite an amazingly stupid thing to say.

Wait until you hear this next part about the teacherless classroom. Of course we should have known that one was coming.

The state senator from the West is asked to go first. She is a diminutive lady and pauses to reflect upon the question. "I think we need to consider the role of teachers in the classroom," she replies in a soft voice. "We are headed toward a teacherless classroom and must be guided by this fact." A teacherless classroom? I look around the table and hope one of the esteemed guests will ask her to clarify or possibly expand upon her statement. Instead, the guests just nod their heads in agreement.

Indeed it appears they nodded in agreement. I mean, really, let's take the human factor out of teaching as we turn schools over to corporations.

The Harvard professor tugs at his chin with his right thumb and index finger and compliments the senator. "In the future," he says, "students will be learning at home using their computers. School buildings and classrooms will not be the primary learning environment." Really? Could any sane person envision millions of school children staying home and learning a full curriculum online? I foresee a stay-at-home mom or dad spending most of the day trying to keep their children away from Facebook.

The Teacher of the Year mentions how he is a fly on the wall listening to "listening to politicians and academics speak about teachers and the teaching profession."

He quotes a governor from the South who brags on raised test scores.

The governor from the South changes the direction of the conversation and boasts about how he personally raised test scores in his state by challenging the "status quo of education." He forgot to mention that he lowered the passing grades for state assessment tests- a status quo practiced by quite a few states.

He finally gets noticed by someone at the dinner.

I spent the last thirty minutes listening to a group of arrogant and condescending non educators disrespect my colleagues and profession. I listened to a group of disingenuous people whose own self-interests guide their policies rather than the interests of children. I listened to a cabal of people who sit on national education committees that will have a profound impact on classroom teaching practices. And I heard nothing of value.

"I'm thinking about the current health care debate, "I said. "And I am wondering if I will be asked to sit on a national committee charged with the task of creating a core curriculum of medical procedures to be used in hospital emergency rooms."

..."I realize that most people would think I am unqualified to sit on such a committee because I am not a doctor, I have never worked in an emergency room, and I have never treated a single patient. So what? Today I have listened to people who are not teachers, have never worked in a classroom, and have never taught a single student tell me how to teach."

There are many fascinating comments at the end of his post. This one expresses much of what I feel:

I am bobbling in agreement, but I can't decided if I should laugh or cry! Laugh: They invited you to come be a table decoration (You did wear a festive teacher tie didn't you?) and then you had the audacity to speak rather than just sit there like a shiny red apple. Cry: Asking the Teacher of the Year to offer input about teaching and learning was an afterthought and they weren't interested in hearing anything beyond "I'm so honored to be here with Friends of Education." As teachers, we keep waiting to be invited to the policy table where we are too often perceived as ungrateful poor relation guests. Rather than seeking an invitation to their table, what if we became more vocal in publicly challenging stakeholders to spend time sitting around the school lunch table with us?

[WolverineDG]

1. That's a bit rich

bashing teachers for using "20th century models" in the 21st century when middle & high schools are modeled after 19th century factories & the majority of school calendars are modeled on the ancient farming calendar.

If they're such experts in education, why aren't they in the classroom?

dg

[Hekate]

4. Because it doesn't pay diddly-squat, and they prefer money and power. nt

[WinkyDink]

54. I had to hear ignorant supervisors tell me to be "a guide on the side, not a sage on the stage."

Because what I learned from studying literature was to be my little secret, and students were to work in groups to teach themselves!

Bah. Corporatists don't care aboput education, not as we used to know it. That would make for, you know, EDUCATED CITIZENS, and those types can get ornery.

It's all about the Benjamins, folks; salaries, health-care, pensions. Get rid of teachers by claiming what you want is "progress" (the "21st Century" beckons!), and voila'! Big-time saved money for the wealthy.

Then privatize as the bricks-and-mortar schools go to wrack and ruin.

But how will the students...make that "adolescent consumers", pass the mandated NCLB exams?

Simple: Parents will need to buy Neil Bush's computer study-program "Ignite!"

[WolverineDG]

57. I spent 6 years in the classroom

got out while I could & have not regretted it.

dg

[bjobotts]

114. Good post. Can't rule without an uninformed dumbed down citizenry

[bjobotts]

116. Ex-govs. think u must be trained to be a Dr. but anyone can teach. Idiots to idots

[roguevalley]

137. everybody is an expert on education because they were in fifth grade

once. this shit is why I retired.

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. I would love to ask any of the idjits there about their own education.

[anonymous171]

3. "Traditional education" is the only method that works

Why don't some people understand this?

[TrogL]

196. What those kids for whom "traditional education" doesn't work?

[tonysam]

200. Such as...?

n/t

[smoogatz]

213. I think we're referring to stupid kids.

Which, you know, don't exist anymore, because all the children are above average.

[Robb]

5. As I watch my local district move into 21st century learning

...I am aware it is a very, very painful process for teachers. Many adopt technologies quickly, to the benefit of their students. Many do not, to their students' detriment.

There are new skills teachers need to learn to teach children. They don't learn the same as they did 20 years ago, period. Ignoring this fact does no more good than, frankly, ignoring how foolishly (and underfundedly, if that's a word) many districts wander into the notion of 21st century learning.

It is a complicated subject, rife with misunderstanding and resentment on all sides. But it cannot be avoided.

[madfloridian]

7. Oh, yeh, Robb..must be so hard for them poor idjit teachers.

It is not a complicated subject at all.....

Hire good teachers, pay them well, let them teach.

Talk about condescending???

[Robb]

20. It *is* complicated.

I'm sorry you think it's condescending to suggest that. Not my intention, and I don't think my post deserves that.

[madfloridian]

24. Education is complicated, Robb. It requires depths of ability...

and I get very resentful at someone saying that teachers only have 20th century skills. It is stupid talking point.

Did you know how I got the computers im my classroom before I retired??? Got old cast off Apple IIes from corporations that were throwing them out.

Since they are cutting funding to public schools so drastically, how much techology are they going to have that is up to date and new?

[Robb]

26. I addressed funding in my post.

Please don't jerk that knee at me.

[madfloridian]

33. Your attitude toward teachers shows in more than words..

it is tone.

[Robb]

48. Well, then I guess I've grossly misrepresented myself to you.

No excuse if it's a communication failure on my part.

[abelenkpe]

91. technology in schools

Exactly! I am mortified when I see the old, sorry, completely useless technology in schools visited recently. Not just high school, but also in colleges. Even the insanely expensive grad school I attended was out of date. How can public schools possibly keep up with this? Especially when they've endured years of crazy budget cuts.

[rucognizant]

155. You might.........

turn this upside down......& ask why technology needs to obsolete the older stuff when creating new technology.
COULD IT BE FOR THE PROFIT OF THOSE COMPANIES? MAYBE? POSSIBLY?

AT age 57, 13 years ago, realizing the need for technology I went back to college for Graphic Design. On a MAc OS 7.6 I learned Adobe Illustrator., Photoshop Quark & Fractel Design.
13 years later I have 2 G-3 OS 9 operating systems, ( both with built in floppy, Zip & CD drive slots............)One OS X.4.8 laptop with a too small moniter, terrible for Graphic Design, ..................But It does meet Bill Gates requirements for accessing Internet Explorer. I also have a 2000 Mac Powerbook, ( referred to by Apple as vintage) 4 successive software packages of Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, Corel Painter ( from Fractel Design, not nearly as good!) And years worth of Graphic Design projects that I don't have access to, so to utilize them I must start over again! I have spent heaps & tons of money, out of an income of approx $11,000 per year.(hardly enough to pay for the necessities.)

I would think that if they are "clever" enough to invent all these improvements, they should be able to make them flow seamlessly one into the other.......................

By the way I am a terrific teacher...................of the old " real" school conveying information to the kids, so that they get it & it sticks.! Private Studio of course, no interference with school boards etc!

[abelenkpe]

177. Agreed.

"I would think that if they are "clever" enough to invent all these improvements, they should be able to make them flow seamlessly one into the other......................." Indeed. Part of that has to do with the way work is handed down from one programmer to another. Part with changes in operating systems and hardware. But a large part is business looking to continually generate profits.

My hubby writes code for a large corporation's website. A team of new programmers were trying to write code to show a web snapshot. They worked for months attempting this holding up the release of the updated site. They were attempting to write code on top of code on top of code. My hubby just bypassed all of that, wrote a simple script from scratch and did it in a day. Sometimes it's good to know the evolution of something.

You sound like a great teacher. It is so expensive to keep up. I say this as one currently using a 2000 mac as well. :)

[1monster]

133. You are wrong, Rob. The basics in education are the same now as t hey were when I was in elementary

school thirty some odd years ago. One plus one still equals two. The ABCs are still the same. The sounds are still the same, the letters put tegether to make words are still the same.

The difference is that the kids now have a lot more to learn. More history, more and different maths that have been developed for the computer age, more literature, more technical skills, etc.

Once the basics are learned, the best teachers don't teach information. They teach the students how to find the needed information for themselves. They teach the students how to think for themselves, how to innovate, and how to solve problems.

In today's educational system (brought to you by those wonderful politicians who are now bringing us health care), teachers are not allowed to teach. They are not allowed to judge their students' needs and learning styles, or even how much time they are allowed to spend on any subject. They must teach to the schedule and to the TEST.

It is so bad, that some classes and some schools require their teachers to used scripted lesson plans written by some "expert" in education. One size fits all.

What is wrong with education today? It isn't the teachers. It is the politicians putting their ignorant noses into micromanaging something they have no idea about whatsoever.

[kurtzapril4]

85. I didn't think he was being condescending at all.

[madfloridian]

10. "rife with misunderstanding and resentment"....it's called privatizing.

It is intolerable to me to see a DUer put down teachers like you have.

[Robb]

21. Read my post again

...and tell me where I put down teachers??

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. "Many adopt technologies quickly, to the benefit of their students.

Many do not, to their students' detriment."

That would be called a putdown.

[Robb]

50. Hardly.

Teachers who effectively use technology in the classroom help their students more than those who do not. How is this a put down?

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. You are assuming "many" teachers do not use technology effectively

I disagree. I am in a school every day and see teachers use technology. In fact, two schools. So I am wondering what leads you to believe that teachers are not using technology effectively. I don't see that at all. Sorry.

[Robb]

60. Our district has an incredibly well-funded ed tech program

...thanks to a few mil levies that passed and an amazing donation from a wealthy couple for just such things. I've been observing since the first round of grant funding came through a few years ago.

To their credit, the couple that donated the big money wanted it quite clear: you don't just get the tools, if you want to keep them you have to get trained to use them so they don't just sit in the corner and rust. So part of the process has been paying for training (the district is doing it themselves, as a cost-saving measure) and holding schools accountable for getting their teachers to the district's trainings.

Many, even most in the program are enthusiastically learning and using these tools to their fullest possible potential. It is amazing to see, awe-inspiring. Many are reluctant to go to the training -- but do, for the continuing ed hours -- and realize how the tools can benefit their students. Some just don't want them, so of course the district is trying to make sure none of the tech goes to those schools.

Some, I suppose "many" isn't fair, get the technology and let it sit in the corner. Or the principals get into the program but the teachers aren't interested. Or vice-versa, a teacher makes the overtures to get the technology and training but the principal balks and has to be told by the district that yes, they must let their teachers go learn these things if they want them.

It probably seems like there are more teachers and principals who are resistant than actually are, since I'm looking at more than 70 schools at once.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. Sorry. I am not clear here. Are you a teacher? Work in a district?

How do you know so much about the teachers in your district and how they have embraced technology?

[Leopolds Ghost]

68. How come condescending posts on teachers, welfare etc. come from folks in system who are doing WELL?

It's almost as if Americans, even DUers, like to imagine that if they can do something a certain way, everyone can and should be like them.

How did this district come to be so well-funded? Could it be fortunate to receive all this "21st century" tech? Ah, the challenges of having to use new technology when so many ignorant teachers are "used to" hand me downs! I'd hate to be in that boat.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. Well, there are a lot of technology grants available

So I understand a district having a lot of technology. I resent that we have to apply for grants to get materials for our children that should be a part of our education budgets. But at least there is funding available (granted, we have to jump through hoops to get it) to get the technology our kids deserve to have.

As for your first point, it seems that many folks who were in 3rd grade at one time believe that qualifies them to be a critic of teachers. I have spent time as a patient in a hospital and would never assume that qualifies me to critique how nurses perform. But that is not true for education.

[stopbush]

186. Sorry, but some teachers are VERY bad at adopting technologies.

My son's English teacher is an example. She tells everyone to check the online site to keep current with what's going on in her classroom. She hasn't updated the site since 12/4/9! She actually jokes about her technical ineptitude in class. She called me over Xmas vacation to voice her concern that my son hadn't turned in a huge project on time. This project had to be submitted to an online plagiarism check before she would accept it. Well, my son HAD submitted the whole thing right after Thanksgiving, and he had wisely printed out a time-stamped confirmation proving his essay had been submitted and accepted.

Now, here's a teacher who talks a good game but can't follow through in practice. She even goes as far as to show her concern by calling parents over vacation. Fine, but what I think would be more helpful and useful would be if she were to use the same technologies that she is requiring the kids to use, rather than wasting her time and mine by calling when the issue is about HER, not my son.

[tonysam]

190. Technologies aren't the be-all end-all of education

In fact, education gets reduced to a dog-and-pony show and the things the kids REAlLY need to learn get lost.

I couldn't give a shit less about "Smart Boards" or other technical crap.

[stopbush]

195. And neither is the opposite side of the coin a panacea.

A teacher who is totally or willfully ignorant of the technologies that kids use today as a matter of course will have a hard time connecting with those kids.

Great teachers aren't the be-all and end-all of education either. They are a critical part, but a great teacher placed in a bad situation is going to spend more time dealing with discipline and other problems then they are ever going to spend teaching.

This isn't a black and white issue. Stop trying to make it so.

[anonymous171]

11. What new skills do teachers need to teach students?

From what I can see they are still having trouble teaching them how to read and write. Most tech is a waste of money in my experience.

[madfloridian]

17. I tend to agree with you. Teaching reading is a true skill..

and it does not require technology. It requires patience and kindness and an understanding of how a child learns.

[shellgame26]

132. so true

I went from a NYC school where the latest principal stressed nothing but technology to a school in the French system that stresses direct interaction and close to zero technology.

[sense]

189. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you....

But many children are perfectly capable of teaching themselves to read. Not all children, of course, but many. I understand that all must learn to read, but schools are not the best environment for so many, as they're terribly dumbed down and we're losing many of the brightest children by not addressing their needs. They learn on their own their time is better spent elsewhere.

[C_Lawyer09]

19. Sympatico, and well said

So tired of hearing about technology in the classroom. Who really gives a shit? All these crazy stats, all of them reflective about one of two things: Either apathy, or lack of knowledge. How many percent of students can name the last three presidents? What is half of seven and one half? Read this word to me, (chaos) you are going to realize fifty percent or less answer these questions correctly, and I'm talking about high school students.

I'm not an educator, nor do I blame teachers. Just like any occupation there are good, and bad. Motivated teachers, and burn outs. Do we need constant debate about crazy ass standardized tests, or tech in the classroom? I don't think so, and I damn sure hope kids aren't learning from home on their computers. Interaction and discussion are key. I just said this in response to another post. Do like Germany and make secondary school relevant to the work force. I read a few months ago, though I can't remember in which magazine, that the avg. salary of a BA recipient in his/her first year of work is $21k. We've gotten to the point where higher education has become nothing more than a mandatory hoop jump. I digress.

[Robb]

22. "Most tech is a waste of money in my experience."

...How do I argue with that? Is it not a classroom unless there are ink wells in the desks??

[anonymous171]

27. Tech = Smartboards, laptops, expensive video projectors, etc.

Anything that isn't a notebook and a whiteboard was, for me, completely unnecessary for learning. In fact, a lot of the time it served more as a distraction than an asset.

[Robb]

29. Were you ever properly trained in *using* any of that tech?

...Because if not, then of course you wouldn't care for it.

Used well, tech makes a huge difference. Ink well salesmen notwithstanding.

[bertman]

35. I know educated adults who cannot do basic math without a calculator. What's with that? I agree

that there is a place for technology in our schools, but substituting machinery for learning is insane.

[MadHound]

36. Actually having been trained to use that tech

And having taught in the classroom I can honestly tell you that it isn't necessary or needed, and quite frankly in many cases it can be a detriment.

Sure, a smartboard is a nice shiny piece of tech, but it really doesn't help in teaching a child to read. Video projectors, again, they're nice, but not necessary when teaching history. Same with computers.

In fact this tech can be a detriment because with all of that tech what we're teaching students in many cases is not information, but rather how to find information, a huge difference.

Are there times and places where tech is helpful, sure. I couldn't have done some of the things I did in the classroom without it. But many times I've found that it's more of a hindrance than a help and wishing that I could go back to the good ol' days of books, a chalkboard and handouts.

And frankly, let's not get into the psychological problems that kids are experiencing due to their overwhelming exposure to computers and such. There's a reason that so many more kids are experiencing ADHD and other attention problems, and more and more psychologists are finding that it the kids' exposure to computers, TV and the like where they jump from one thing to another, bam, bam, bam, all in click of a button.

Your ignorance on this issue is astounding, matched only by the hubris that you exhibit by thinking that you can pass judgment on a subject that you have no hands on experience with. Much like our current politicians and pundits. Tell you what, get back to me with your pontification when you've actually set foot in a classroom.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. I disagree nearly completely with you on this, Friend

We have an obligation to prepare our kids for this century. No matter what job they have, they will be using a computer. And lots of technology.

I LOVE teaching Reading with a Smart Board. I also love the document cameras we have this year because they eliminate the need for overhead projectors. And they are far less expensive.

The technology we use is incredibly helpful in demonstrating, which is the core of teaching. Sure I could still teach Reading without it but the kids are more into it and much more attentive with technology.

[Robb]

56. You see no irony

...in accusing me of hubris for having an opinion on educational issues without being a teacher, yet you wish to attribute ADHD and god knows what else to "exposure to computers" with exactly which medical degree?

That you are wrong in your assessment of my time in a classroom is only the beginning of your problem.

[laughingliberal]

61. "what we're teaching students in many cases is not information, but rather how to find information"

That is so right on! I have been an RN for years. It is quite true that a nurse will not ever know everything and, thus, needs to know how to find information when s/he needs it. But, without the foundational knowledge in theory and science, the information s/he finds would be useless or dangerous.

That's what these apologists are missing. There must be a foundation on which to build and the traditional classroom still works best for that.

[JoeyT]

71. I think that's about right.

I'd also add that, while the kids with shiny toys are learning to find information, they're not learning the critical thinking skills to tell the difference between good and bad information. So they wander out into the world without the ability to tell a good idea from a bad idea: In the end they only possess the ability to find data, not the ability to assess it independently. This is one of the reasons the "balance" thing in the media works so well. People can't judge the difference between someone with a doctorate and someone that's eating his own shoe.

Critical thinking skills should be one of the major skill sets schools teach. All the gizmos and flashing lights do nothing but get in the way of that.

[RaleighNCDUer]

90. Are you trying to say that you CAN'T see Russia from Alaska? nt

[jmowreader]

122. You can't see it from Wasilla, anyway

[JoeyT]

222. Course not!

After all, if two people are saying different things, we just have to pick who we like the most to believe and defend them to the death. Independently verifying facts is way too much work.

[laughingliberal]

120. Yes, accessing information is one thing but it does not teach discernment or, as you mentioned,

critical thinking skills. Not to mention some things we care not about any more like stimulating intellectual curiosity, awe, wonder, an appreciation for the arts.

[tonysam]

78. My local school district spent literally millions of dollars

on Smart Boards, and for what purpose? Because the money was there?

Kids don't NEED Smart Boards in the classroom. An overhead projector is better because teachers can actually SEE what is going in the classroom in front of them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. I disagree

The kids love them. But more importantly, they are a part of our culture and can be seen in use on TV every day many times on many channels. We have an obligation to prepare kids for life as independent adults and no matter what kid of job they have, there will be technology involved and they will be expected to understand that technology and be able to learn to use it.

[stopbush]

188. I agree with you. I wonder how many of the posters poo-pooing technologies

in the schools actually have kids in school right now. I'm going to guess very, very few.

[smoogatz]

199. As a parent, which would you rather have--

15-20 kids in a classroom with a master teacher, a chalkboard and a dictionary, or 30 kids in a room with a wildly overworked teacher and a lot of kewl electronic gadgetry?

[Robb]

201. False choice. Even from a strict dollar perspective, those aren't equal. nt

[smoogatz]

206. Why? Because smaller classes with good teachers aren't "cost effective?"

But somehow a bunch of pre-obsolete electronic doo-dads are? For my money, the opposite is true: I'd trade your smart-boards for smaller classes taught by great teachers anyday, but that's a hard sell for voters--it's not sexy, it's not 21st century, and it doesn't light up when you push the button. My point is that school districts all over the country are making the wrong choice, and going for bigger classes and more tech. Our classrooms here are loaded with technocrap; usually I find myself trying to push it out of the way so I can get out from behind the "workstation" and talk to the students.

[Robb]

209. No, it's that you assume math that is not in existence.

A Promethean board in a classroom costs a district maybe $2K. Fill a school for $20,000. How do you propose we reduce class size for that kind of money? That's not enough to hire a kid to mow the field all year, much less hire one of the "master teachers" you speak of.

You're not proposing anything particularly revolutionary, just something unaffordable given the current structure. Everyone wants smaller classes. No district is making a "choice" for bigger classes, that's a straw man.

[smoogatz]

214. How much is a good, old-fashioned whiteboard?

How many part-time teacher's assistants could you get for $20k? What other ridiculous do-dads are you cramming into your classrooms? How many schools in your district? What's your total annual expenditure, district-wide, for classroom tech? Give me the numbers, and then we'll talk. I'm also curious about your motivation here: why are you such a vocal proponent of this stuff? Are you in the biz, by any chance?

[Robb]

217. Fine.

1) About half a part-time para.

2) Since these aren't ridiculous, none.

3) More than 70.

4) Define "classroom tech." Pencil sharpeners? Mouse pads? Do you want to include IT support staff? Our district spends more than a billion dollars each year all told. About 7% of that is all administration salaries, so that would include technology services.

If you're asking what our district spends on document cameras and smart boards, the answer is nothing, as it is entirely grant-funded. Those grants, by the way, are meant to be used exactly for those things. So we can't take their money and buy old-fashioned whiteboards with it.

5) My motivation?? What's yours? No one on your lawn to shake a fist at this week?

6) No, not in the "biz" at all.

I can't imagine any of this helped you at all. You must just be trying to appear as if you're carefully considering your position.

[stopbush]

203. Another black and white set of "options."

What good is 15 kids in a classroom with no electronic gadgetry and a hapless teacher? I'd prefer a master teacher with lots of electronic tools around. Such a teacher could be successful no matter what the class size.

Stop framing your arguments in such simplistic and loaded ways.

[smoogatz]

205. The point is that all the money currently being squandered on gadgetry

would probably be better spent on hiring more and better teachers. Nothing simplistic or loaded about it. What works in education, and decades of studies show this again and again, are smaller classes taught by teachers who really know their subjects. The rest is just window dressing designed to entertain the kiddies and make the parents feel better--and to make a profit for educational tech providers, of course.

[abelenkpe]

212. 10-15 kids in a class

with some kewl gadgetry.

:)

[Democrat_in_Houston]

111. I completely agree with you, Madhound

I can teach a child to read with a chalkboard and a piece of chalk. My favorite teacher used to say that a computer is just an expensive deck of flashcards in the lower grades, and I agree. I do believe that all grades need computer labs and computer classes, but computers in the classroom are highly overrated in elementary school. Technology is not going to improve education in this country. Smaller classes will.

[Karmadillo]

41. A huge difference? Any evidence

to support this huge superiority of tech over a well-run, low-tech classroom?

[MH1]

59. I'm a software developer, and I think most classroom tech is probably wasted

I think there is huge potential but from what I understand, we still have a big problem teaching basic skills - and that's a much higher priority than "enrichment" that cool tools can offer.

Tech could probably help with reading writing and 'rithmetic but after all these years it doesn't seem to have made much difference. So I'd rather see money going to smaller classes and more focus on basic skills in the early grades. And 20th century skills would be just fine for that.

[YvonneCa]

136. Technology is needed in classrooms...

...both for basic skills instruction AND enrichment no matter the grade level. And it is the future of our students...they are growing up in the 21st century. You said, "Tech could probably help with reading writing and 'rithmetic but after all these years it doesn't seem to have made much difference."

My 24 years teaching tells me why this is the case...in all that time, teachers were not a part of designing its use. Administrators were involved. Bill and Melinda Gates were involved. Politicians were included.


No teachers. JMHO. :hi:

[abelenkpe]

181. Since 1989

I have had a vision for creating educational programs for small kids on the computer. I used to teach in a Montessori school and knew that I could reinforce those basic lessons of math and the movable alphabet on the computer. I went to work for a major studio to develop an educational site. At first I was so excited but quickly saw that nothing meaningful would ever be accomplished. Everything has to be 'branded' and watered down so that the end result is pure crap. Producers would bring in teachers to consult and never take any of their advice. Even if they wanted to take their advice marketing and accounting would destroy it all.

Smaller classes, well paid motivated, appreciated teachers is the real prescription for improvement. One good teacher can do so much. The most important thing to teach is the love of learning. Quite difficult in a society that disparages teachers, intellectuals, and expresses pride in ignorance on television everyday.

[smoogatz]

216. What evidence can you provide

that any of it makes any difference in educational outcomes? Lots of assertions of"fact" from you, but nothing to back it up.

[Robb]

218. Here, this should help.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+technology+improves+education

[smoogatz]

220. Aren't you cute.

Come on, don't be lazy--pick a study that you think is definitive. Not industry funded, please, or some bullshit self-assessment designed to justify the school district's decision-making.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. And when you went home, what technology was there?

It is ludicrous to say 'well I didn't need all that and I learned just fine!'

Kids are living in a different age than the one we lived in when we were kids. Turn on CNN or any news channel and THEY use Smart Boards. I want my students to understand what they are and how they work so when they see them on CNN they know what they are looking at.

I also want my kids to know their way around a computer. Another skill that was not necessary when I was in school.

You need projectors to use a Smart Board. And they really aren't all that expensive.

[anonymous171]

58. I'm fairly young (23.) I experienced public schools' obsession with technology

And discovered first hand how it affects students' ability to learn(it doesn't do shit.) Without a good teacher, all the smart boards and free laptops in the world won't help. I was failing all of my classes until my mother transferred me to a private school which looked as if they had not changed their lesson plans in over 20 years. No laptops, no smart boards Just a teacher and a whiteboard for every class. I learned more in my 2 years at that school than I did in my 8 years at public school (I also had to relearn a couple of things like long division, because my public school teachers had never bothered to teach it to me.)

Technology has a place in the classroom. However, just adding more tech will improve nothing except the bottom lines of the companies that produce them.

[Mithreal]

64. +1, well said. I went to both public and private schools as well.

It is less about technology than many would have us think.

[eppur_se_muova]

73. If you can't teach with just a chalkboard ... you can't teach.

Sorry if some find that harsh.

OK, not really sorry. :P

I agree that all the fancy tech is mostly in the way. It's also a drain on time to learn how to use it, to keep it maintained, and to keep it (constantly!) upgraded.

Thanks for posting a student's POV. Most of the digital stuff came long after I was a student. As a teacher, it mostly impresses me as solutions in search of a problem -- with most of the problems in the classroom not having anything to do with lack of technology.

[Democrat_in_Houston]

112. +1 - Solutions in search of a problem. LOL

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

123. And a competent teacher learns how to use technology and uses it

Smart Boards are awesome. So are document cameras. I am actually energized and excited about teaching with the new technology.

[eppur_se_muova]

145. *ASSUMING* teaching with the technology is better than without.

Too many people assume that it MUST be true.

[proud2BlibKansan]

154. Well I am a teacher and I know it's true

I don't need to assume anything. :)

[nikto]

89. Bravo!

Technology is used mainly as a distracting tactic in the anti-teacher arguments.

If a child refuses to be motivated to give even a modest effort (as many
are NOT motivated to do in some schools), all the technology in the world isn't going to make any difference.

In school, technology means: Finding info on the Internet (which is primarily a LANGUAGE skill!);
Using Powerpoint; Teacher use of glowing-screen activeBoards for lectures (AKA the "COW" machine, as sold by the Bush family);
And using Email.

The "reform" zombies exaggerate greatly to promote their $elf-intere$t.

[chervilant]

143. ARGH!!!

I hate the cow machine!!! I had no idea the Bushies promoted that ridiculous piece of technology.

[proud2BlibKansan]

182. Here's the best part:

The COW costs $3800.

[Retrograde]

49. tech should be the means to an end, not the end itself

I'm not a teacher, but I do work with smallish children. For the last several years I've been a docent in a large garden, and after escorting many, many groups of children I've come to respect elementary school teachers for their patience (most of them: as with any group there are the really exceptionally good ones, the bad ones, and all the ones in between). I have the luxury of having the kids for a short time in a very stimulating environment and don't have to worry about budget cuts.

The problem I see with "21st century teaching" - which I take to mean replacing humans with automation - is that all the pictures and images don't substitute for reality. More and more, children don't have much contact with the real world, they don't comprehend where food comes from, for example, or why diversity is so important in ecosystems (and a lot of other things but I tend to focus in my specialty). If by "21st century teaching" the powers that be meant engaging children, encouraging them to think through things, use all their senses and getting them to apply their experiences to larger problems I'd be all for it.

Nothing against tech - I'm using it right now! - but seeing kids make the leap from reading about protective coloring and learning the rote reason and watching them realize that yes, it is hard to see the female mallard near her nest (or some other thing they've learned to parrot back) give me hope.

[NJCher]

130. I'm a college teacher but

...all the pictures and images don't substitute for reality. More and more, children don't have much contact with the real world...


I require my students to take a field trip for their research paper. They have to incorporate the experience with their paper. Often this will give them a primary source rather than having all secondary sources.

As an example, a student wrote a paper on the disease we are seeing in bats. I helped her find some nature centers and she visited them and while there, talked to a couple knowledgeable nature center employees who referred her to a fairly prominent scientist working on the bat disease problem.

The result was a paper that was quite original and for me, a pleasure to read.

Students want to write interesting papers; it's up to teachers to show them how to do it.


Cher

[WolverineDG]

16. It's now known that there are different ways children learn

but instead of grouping students by the way they learn best (ie, visual learners), teachers have to teach to all of them in one class room. And when you have 150 students, it's damn near impossible to create lessons in all the different learning styles.

But yeah, it's all the teachers' fault. Damn them for not being miracle workers.

dg

[Robb]

23. Again

...How did I blame teachers?

[vanlassie]

109. Again, see #43. You can own this or clean it up.....

[patrice]

42. Yes, but different learning styles is NOT the whole story. There ARE differences and SIMILARITIES.

Both should be appropriately facilitated, but in the current environment, teachers are torn apart by waring POLITICAL camps that want to divorce the similarities from the differences and NEVER the twain shall meet.

This is because everything has been externalized and few, if anyone, look to what individuals have internalized from their families, things like curiosity, autonomy, values, vision, thoughtfulness, passion etc. etc. etc. Teachers are expected to make up for all of everyone else's weakness and mistakes. And politicians will not talk about any of this, because it will cost them votes to tell parents that perhaps, just perhaps, they SHOULD be doing a better job too.

[Mithreal]

97. True, but it has been "now known" for decades.

Most teachers are aware of differences in learning style and it is less a challenge than many other problems.

Might as well mention different types of intelligence too.

And because we let idiots like are described in the op guide education policy, there are cycles where education research is respected and cycles where research is ignored. President Obama is all about that New Dem way, Third Way, where you can talk about progress and sell out teachers and students in exchange for privatization and dollars.

[LWolf]

18. "21st century learning" is not just about technology.

Technology deficits in schools have more to do with lack of access than anything else.

We are certainly willing to regularly update our technological skills and apply them, but not if we're not actually going to be able to use the technology because we can't fund it.

21st century learning should be based on authentic (not corporate or politically sponsored) research, about how the brain develops and learns, and should use methodologies that meet the needs of increasingly diverse student populations. Technologies are tools in that pursuit, not the goals themselves.

Teachers are required to undergo continuous professional development to stay current with new methodologies to suit modern students. Our licenses depend on it.

The real issue is in changing the system to make implementing all that continuous learning possible and effective. We (teachers) aren't the ones wedded to the factory model that makes implementing change difficult and ineffective.

In today's schools, the mantras are:

"Don't focus on what you can't change! (the actual factors that cause academic failure: poverty, etc.) Focus on what you can (and, of course, be accountable for achieving the desired results even when you can't affect the factors resulting in failure.)"

"Don't think of it as doing more with less! Use your time and resources creatively to make sure students get as much learning in overcrowded, understaffed schools, with fewer resources and a shorter school year! You'll just have to do it differently, but no matter what the conditions in the classroom, or the system, are, it's your fault if students fail."

[Robb]

25. I think I mentioned the funding aspect

...but why every teacher on DU thinks I'm attacking them is beyond me.

[LWolf]

65. I think it's because

we interpret your comment about "not adapting" to be putting blame on us for the systems dysfunctions, rather than where it should be placed.

It reminds us of the "CEOs good, educators bad" mantra that has been used to degrade public education for decades now.

Of course, I can only speak for myself.

I don't know if that's the way you meant it, but then, being under constant attack makes one constantly on the lookout for attacks.

[patrice]

44. Nailed it! I feel bad, but that's exactly why I'm out of it now.

Families and society are falling apart, REALLY falling apart, and teachers are being blamed for it.

[patrice]

37. Could you illustrate some of the specific differences in how "they" learn today compared to how they

learned 20 years ago?

Are you saying there are differences in the cognitive processes encoded in the brain? Please be more specific and If there are, could those differences be maladaptive? I'm thinking here of how immensely often I hear someone tell me "I'm ADD" - just one example of the sorts of hypothetical changes we may be looking at here and how there is so much more information necessary to a functional response to these changes. It is not the case that ALL differences are necessarily functional.

[RaleighNCDUer]

87. Students DO learn the same as they did 20 years ago, or 200, or 2000

years ago. The methods of TEACHING may change, but the way people LEARN is unchanged - and hasn't changed since the ice ages. Often as not, people learn despite, not because of, new teaching methods.

People are given information. They are then told to remember that information. They may, or may not, be given real-world applications for that information. When they discover real-world applications for the information, they remember and apply the information.

That's called 'learning'.

Hasn't changed for tens of thousands, millions even, of years. What does change is teaching methods. Don't conflate the two.

[RayOfHope]

96. I think they learn the same way. We are just learning more about the way they learn n/t

[Zoeisright]

113. Have any links or actual facts to back up that statement?

" don't learn the same as they did 20 years ago, period."

Why? What's different? What exactly has changed? How are they 'learning' differently?

That's a ridiculous statement unproven by any facts.

[treygoba66]

128. You seem rather cocksure in your response.

"Why? What's different? What exactly has changed? How are they 'learning' differently?
That's a ridiculous statement unproven by any facts."

And your evidence is...?

Why don't you start with

http://searchengineland.com/the-wiring-of-the-digital-native-17140 I recommend reading Dr. Moody's book (i-Brain) for a primer on how we are rapidly changing the way we think (at least the kids).

I teach A&P with special emphasis (1st semester) on neurology. The evidence for neural plasticity in the brain is overwhelming.

I'm not sure that your confidence is warranted (if you're trying to frame it in terms of NS, you are correct. But it would appear that NS favored brains that showed a high degree of neural plasticity during development as a survival mechanism as our species spread to new and challenging environments...etc.).

[gristy]

117. My experience says you are wrong.

I am back in school for the first time in 27 years, now working on my PhD in engineering. The courses are taught the same as they were when I was last in school. A textbook, problem sets, and a professor who explains with theoretical derivations and examples worked out with numbers, all with chalk on the board. It worked well 27 years ago, and it's working great now.

What "technologies" are you thinking of that these professors have not adopted, to our "detriment"?

[olegramps]

151. The basics upon which more complex subjects are explored has remained the same since before Plato.

If a person has a solid foundation they will be able with proper guidance be able to explore more complex subjects. There seems to be a problem with retaining teachers with advanced degrees in math and the sciences for a number of reasons primary of which is pay.

From what I have seen the major problem is the lack of parental involvement. Not only in regard to making sure their child is putting forth the effort, but also not supporting the teachers who have to put up with their unruly little monsters. I a couple of life time friends who are retired teahers and a common complaint was that if they had a discipline problem with a student and they notified the parents that in far too many cases the parent would become defensive and end up blaming the teacher for the kid's lousy behavior.

[Robb]

160. This is actually the perfect response

...because it is the "laundry list" reaction.

Not a single thing you say is untrue. But you are assuming things like "less parental involvement" or "pay teachers more" is something you can just ask for and then get. There are no grants available for parental involvement or across-the-board teacher pay raises.

The reality on the ground is, if you visit a middle school in the poorest part of a big city, every child has a phone in their pocket, a Myspace account, and has played Guitar Hero. Teachers have to compete for a child's attention against cell phones, computers, the internet, portable gaming systems, and TV. To send educators out with a chalkboard and hope they win is unfair to all but the most movie-of-the-week-worthy of teachers.

And they are out there, sure; but they are not everywhere.

[proud2BlibKansan]

164. +1

This teacher who does work with middle schoolers in the poorest part of the city gives you an A:)

You nailed it.

[olegramps]

165. To tell you the truth I really don't understand your response.

The cases in where children have succeeded, even against the worst odds that I have read about, they are from families, many single parent families, that demanded that their children apply themselves. The children's education is the primary duty of the parent, not the teacher's. A teacher can't demand that the kid due their homework other than threating to fail them. I will have to take as fact that all the kids, even in the poorest neighborhoods, have all these gadgets. If that is the case and it is jeopardizing their schooling then it is squarely the fault of the parents. I don't know of a kid that didn't want, want and want some more. It is the parents duty to set the limits.

I know some very wealthy people who have provided their kids with all the neat gadgets, yet they demand that they do their homework and apply themselves in school. So I don't automatically concede that low achievement is necessarily the fault of having these modern toys.

[smoogatz]

179. "They don't learn the same as they did 20 years ago, period."

How so? In what fundamental way has human learning evolved in the last twenty years?

[BolivarianHero]

180. lol

Then I suppose I should stop learning Plato, Aristotle, Hobbes, Locke, and all the rest...

[stopbush]

185. I agree. I have two kids in public schools right now (7th & 11th grade)

and the fact is that technologies are becoming more and more depended upon in the schools, not less. There's no way to draw a line in the sand and say "we'll use technology up to this point, but no further" because as soon as you say that a new more-beneficial technology is sure to emerge.

I happen to like the technologies in use today. My kid's classwork and grades are online, and I can check them anytime I want. I can directly e-mail teachers, and most prefer this method of communication. The drawback to these technologies are the teachers who don't keep things current on their websites.

One of the technologies my son is familiar with is an online check for plagiarism. All of his writing assignments must be submitted to an online service that checks for plagiarism. That's something that's very good, IMO. If such a thing existed back when I was in school, half the kids would have flunked their first couple of essays.

Kids ARE used to using the computer, and they tend to get down to brass tacks when they need to use the computer at home for school work. I see a lot of concentration on their part, because they use the computer as a tool and get the work done, rather than getting distracted and surfing the web. Compare that to the endless hours that we all spent in classrooms, much of the time bored to death and watching the clock. Does a kid learn anything unique by physically handling an encyclopedia when he can access the thing online and pop in a search that retrieves multiple sources to draw upon?

As a parent with kids in public schools, I know that a great teacher can make all the difference in the world. But the fact is that since NCLB became the law of the land, teachers teach to the test to keep grades up and keep funding flowing. They do this by loading kids down with nightly homework that is far, far in excess of anything I ever had to deal with as a kid. Class sizes keep growing, making it harder for teachers to give kids individual help and pushing them to teach to the test.

Our school district has adopted a block day schedule. There are 6 periods in each school day. On Monday, the kids go to all six classes for 45 minutes each. On Tues & Thurs, they go only to periods 1,3 & 5 for 1.5 hours each. On Weds & Fri, it's period 2,4 & 6 for 1.5 hours each. These extended class periods allow time for individual help, along with a more-intense classroom experience. It's an innovative solution that seems to work. That said, there are sometimes so many kids vying for the teacher's time that after-school help is also necessary.

I think we're kidding ourselves if we don't admit that the computer is going to be taking a larger and larger role in schools, just as it does so in every other walk of life.

Along with that, I wouldn't mind if the school curriculum changed a bit. I'd like to see philosophy classes and creative thinking courses offered in secondary school, even if it means dropping such bête noir courses like Algebra II from the standard curriculum. Seriously, how many people need to access their knowledge of Algebra once they get past high school? There are other ways to teach kids HOW to think critically and creatively without shoving mathematical formulae down their throats.

[smoogatz]

198. If we hired more/better teachers

instead of pissing all that money away on tech that's already obsolete, your district wouldn't have to adopt some crazy "block day" schedule. And if we didn't give teachers a lot of extra and mostly peripheral tasks, like posting grades online, they might have more time to devote to actual teaching. Just a thought.

Repealing NCLB might be a good idea, too. No?

[stopbush]

204. Repealing NCLB is good. The rest of your post is BS.

Buying technology is a lot cheaper than hiring teachers. Plus, the technology is the property of the school system and can be used over and over again for many years without further investment. The iMac I'm using from home right now was purchased in 2005. All I do is pay for the electricity to operate it.

There's nothing crazy about the "block day" schedule. It's actually a more-effective way of teaching than cramming in a daily 45-minute period for each class. Daily classes are fine if you're learning by rote & repetition. Not so good if you want kids to think.

My kids teachers post grades online that go directly into the school's system. They're not keeping two sets of books. It's all the same thing. They have to post the grades somewhere, so it's done online.

I'm going to guess you don't have kids in school. Your thinking is a bit, er, 19th century.

[smoogatz]

207. I totally have kids in the public schools.

Montessori. As low-tech as it gets, with the smallest classes, the best teachers, and the highest reading and math scores in the school district. Go fucking figure.

As for buying tech vs hiring teachers: that's my point. We do it because it's cheaper, but that doesn't make it better. Tech is an easy sell, and somebody gets to make a profit! But like my five-year-old, just-replaced iMac, tech breaks down, the chips become obsolete, the software needs upgrades, etc., etc. Tech doesn't teach anybody a damn thing--it's just an entertainment device that creates the illusion of some kind of enhanced classroom experience. About as necessary to a classroom as a Christmas tree, IMO.

[11 Bravo]

6. Damned well said! Thanks for sharing this.

[annabanana]

8. It's astonishing what passes for "serious consideration" these

says, isn't it?

I wonder how long it's been since ANY of those bloviators learned a single new fact.

on edit:
Which one of Gulliver's Travels was it where the people had forgotten how to DO anything and had to to be tapped by bladders on sticks in order to be reminded to respond....

(we are there)

further edit: Found It!

The People of Laputa

I was surrounded with a crowd of people, but those who stood nearest seemed to be of better quality. They beheld me with all the marks and circumstances of wonder; neither indeed was I much in their debt, having never till then seen a race of mortals so singular in their shapes, habits, and countenances. Their heads were all reclined, either to the right, or the left; one of their eyes turned inward, and the other directly up to the zenith. Their outward garments were adorned with the figures of suns, moons, and stars; interwoven with those of fiddles, flutes, harps, trumpets, guitars, harpsichords, and many other instruments of music, unknown to us in Europe. I observed, here and there, many in the habit of servants, with a blown bladder, fastened like a flail to the end of a stick, which they carried in their hands. In each bladder was a small quantity of dried peas, or little pebbles, as I was afterwards informed. With these bladders, they now and then flapped the mouths and ears of those who stood near them, of which practice I could not then conceive the meaning. It seems the minds of these people are so taken up with intense speculations, that they neither can speak, nor attend to the discourses of others, without being roused by some external taction upon the organs of speech and hearing; for which reason, those persons who are able to afford it always keep a flapper (the original is climenole) in their family, as one of their domestics; nor ever walk abroad, or make visits, without him.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. What is the name...

...for that person who goes up before an audience to pep them up before the main act? These business groups in these committees who babble this nonsense, (most of it scripted), are just like that. They have learned the sound bites, they repeat them in committees and what follows are policy decisions based on their inept input. That's the main act. The policy changes where someone stands to make millions of dollars and the problem becomes even worse.

[LWolf]

12. Imagine the superb system we'd have if it were

designed by actual teachers.

Contrast that with what we get when the system is controlled by those who gain political capital by keeping educators, and educators, down.

:(

[donco6]

13. "Teacherless classroom"???

Has that idiot never hear of in loco parentis? Who is actually supposed to be caring for the children while they're in school? Japanese Ryobi Robots?

[C_Lawyer09]

14. Something that made sense to me

I think the poster "TonySam" made mention of this, though I could be mistaken. Anyway, I remember when I was a public school student. Most of the principals and administrators were grizzled salty former teachers. Now, seems these guys/gals are young MBA's MPA's looking out for the bottom line. Not much empathy for the teachers (foot soldiers). Really kind of sad. Obviously I only speak for those geographic areas from which I've spent any length of time.

[donco6]

15. It may not be completely that way. But -

But principals find themselves suddenly under the foot of the Superintendent, who nowadays IS an MBA or corporate ex-president. So they're forced to run the school like some for-profit business or find themselves out on the street.

[tonysam]

79. I know you're a principal, but the principals are getting that way.

It's starting with the superintendents, of course, and ol' Broad is actually recruiting MBAs for the jobs--the LAST thing public schools need. It's starting to filter down to the principal level, beginning in places like NYC, where they don't even have more than a couple of years in the classroom.

[Warpy]

28. I have taught

One of my jobs in nursing school was as a paid tutor for people who just weren't getting it in the classroom. It took a lot of creativity, teaching visually to explain abstract concepts, teaching back stories so that dyslexic students would understand poetic allusions, and generally doing the things classroom teachers didn't have the time or resources to do. The only students I couldn't help were the ones with highschoolitis, that curious disease of teenagers that makes them think they can sit passively while someone else pours knowledge into their ears.

What I got from this is a bunch of shallow thinkers spouting sound bites for each other, all nodding sagely at the sound bites and planning to use them in the next campaign because they're all incapable of thinking anything through. It's all surface to them. I guess this is what happens when kids with highschoolitis grow up without ever learning how to work on anything, or even the reason such work might be intensely satisfying.

I was a great tutor, all the students who were willing to work saw at least one letter grade improvement. There is no way I'd presume to tell a teacher how to handle a whole classroom full of people, though. That requires a whole different skill set.

I can't understand the arrogance of people who tell professionals how to do their jobs. Oh, once in a blue moon an outsider can offer a useful suggestion, but that suggestion won't be heeded unless someone has asked for it.

That last bit was pure genius. However, I sincerely doubt the capacity of the average election driven pol to understand any of it.

No sound bites.

[patrice]

52. Right! "...grow up without learning HOW to work on anything..."

"Learning" is too external, too passive, no time given to individuals learning how they learn.

[FirstLight]

30. Policy vs. Reality

That is the crux of the matter in all aspects of our govt, and it is truly disgraceful to me.

Let's not talk about the issues or ask those with actual experience "in the trenches" to help come up with ideas & answers...Let's TELL them how to do their job and give them less resources to do it with.

this could be healthcare, education, social services, etc...


There's no money to help people and teach children and rebuild infrasctructure, etc...but there are a whole Lot of fatcat Politicians & Administrators & CEOs who know *just* how to solve the issue...


Bastards

[NashVegas]

32. The People Buying the White Papers

Want our children to be like computers: programmed tech workers who will do exactly what they're told, and not worry about little things like Western ideals.

[Jakes Progress]

31. I miss the classroom.

While all this shit is going on.. While all the rich asses make the decisions.. While the easily swayed public eats up the meme.. While schools are being purposefully and willfully destroyed..

When I was in the classroom, I could count on a dozen affirmations of decency per day. A kid makes meaning of a passage in Shakespeare and knows she has done something good. A teacher gives up a lunch period to show a kid how to find a common denominator. A parent gives time to help the kid on meds. I got to watch the light go on in the eyes of kids who were learning from each other in groups. I got to know that what I was doing made a difference.

I made more difference each day than any one of those asses at the dinner that Mullen suffered.

[Jakes Progress]

47. What the hell does 21st Century teaching mean?

I read some of the sub threads above discussing technology in the classroom. Technology is just a tool - not a method, not a strategy. You will never get America to the point where all schools, reservations schools in rural New Mexico and the private-public schools of wealthy neighborhoods, have access to the same tech. It's not the tool, but the artisan that makes the difference. Artists and craftsmen today have more tools and more tech than they did a thousand years ago. Is today's art superior because of that?

Technology is a straw man in the argument about education. What good does it do to have 30 laptops and a giant screen imager if all it does is reproduce scantron tests and give access to on-line ditto lessons? What good is technology if it is used to teach micro lessons on passing a crap test for the state?

Teaching is an art and a skill. Teachers do need to keep learning and keep training. But wasting teacher time on how to program a new bit of techno gear isn't going to improve student learning. Too many thin that tech is the way to "get to the kids" today. Buddy, nothing you can do in the classroom will fascinate kids raised on today's video games. I remember when AV was the big deal. We would get kids with actual moving pictures. Anyone care to share their experiences there?

Teaching is something that takes patience and passion. Add craft and awareness and you are beginning to get there.

So tech or not. Either way can be good or downright dismal. Those fat pigs at the dinner don't know anything about it.

[Lorien]

75. All one has to do is pick up a McGuffy Reader from the 19th Century to see that

tech has done little to advance education. Many High School kids can't list the branches of government or even which counties border the US. The tech debate distracts from the real issue; keeping society uninformed is good for the elite. It makes workers a cheap, docile commodity. They don't plan on improving the system anytime soon.

[patrice]

34. Teachers must be eliminated because they are the ones with first hand knowledge of how much Capital

ism is fucking up parenting and, hence, families. They are the ones who can prove that public education doesn't work because FAMILIES are dysfunctional and families are dysfunctional because of our economic system and the United Corporations of America don't want anyone to know that, so "Teachers be Gone" is the accepted wisdom of the day.

Afterall, just give them the answer book and anyone can teach.

[vssmith]

38. I wonder how much has changed in the College classroom

[kurtzapril4]

93. I'm a 51 year old college student

Botany/Hort major. I quit a decent paying admin. job 5 years ago, "retired" for a couple of years, and went back to school 2.5 years ago. Much has changed since I last went to college in 1977. Most of my classrooms have this computer thing called ELMO in the room. The teachers sometimes have to spend a lot of time fiddling with it. Not their fault, computer stuff just messes up sometimes. And yes, some of my teachers have been more technologically savvy than others. I find the technology helpful most of the time. It was used constantly in my meterology class.

Desk top computers didn't exist when I was in high school, or in college the first time. So yeah, things have changed! Computers took up whole rooms back then.

I'm a junior. I have had good teachers, bad teachers, and ones in the middle. Mostly good or very good ones. Most of my teachers have been passionate, compassionate, engaged and helpful.

I, too, am sick and tired of everything being blamed on teachers, however, I feel that there was some piling on going on in this thread that was just ridiculous and unwarranted. I concur that some teachers are more technologically savvy than others. I've been experiencing it for a while now. In my experience, the teachers that are less tech. savvy than others tend to do more traditional black-board stuff. I don't feel cheated by the old-skool way of teaching at all, because it's what I grew up with. I really feel I have the best of both worlds!

One of the things that really bothers me as an education "consumer", and as a tax payer, is the over-reliance on the test scores of children to determine how good or bad a teacher is, whether they get a raise, get tenure or get fired. That is such a bad way to judge teacher performance, IMO. There are all kinds of reasons kids(and adults)could do badly on tests that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the teacher.

Another thing that bothers me is that I've NEVER heard any news story mention parent accountability vis a vis the success or failure of their children in school. NEVER. It's always all about the teachers, which makes me very angry. It's like parents have been given a total pass on the academic success of their children. Both of my parents worked,too...but they made damn sure that our homework was done.

Could any sane person envision millions of school children staying home and learning a full curriculum online? I foresee a stay-at-home mom or dad spending most of the day trying to keep their children away from Facebook.

Hell, I should be studying right now. But I'm here. And at Facebook too, thank you very much.

Mayor Daley in Chicago is trying to bring in more and more charter schools. Scary.

[devinkay]

103. Much, much, much

has changed in the college classroom. When I started teaching 25 years ago, my students were still using pen and paper. My business writing and technical writing classes had IBM Selectrics, and cut and paste literally meant scissors and glue. Then we got IBM 8088s with Wordstar and Lotus1-2-3. The documents the students produced were levels below something you'd see in a published work, but we did the best we could with what we had. The distance between academics and the "real world," however, was as clear as the nose on our faces.

Today, my students are producing professional-looking documents that can't be distinguished from anything you'll find in business and industry. They're writing collaboratively and conducting peer editing, all electronically. They're developing and delivering PowerPoint presentations. In my comp classes they produce infinite revisions of an essay, improving with each draft; and they do those revisions as a matter of course, when twenty years ago they approached the revision process (by hand) with distaste and resentment.

I lecture (minimally, mind you) with a computer hooked to an overhead projector and to each student's work station, where we can call up any document -- a student's, mine, one from the Web -- and discuss it and modify it instantly for all to see.

Most research has gone electric. Students access URSUS and Infonet and ProQuest Central and Marvel and Minerva, not to mention good ol' Google, all from their seats in the classroom. A world of information is at their fingertips, and they're the ones who are often teaching me about what's out there. They order hard copy materials online via interlibrary loan.

They email manufacturers and educators and politicians and doctors to ask questions or to express their opinions. They get their assignments electronically, and I meet them in chat at the oddest hours to answer their queries and help them through quandaries.

I teach online classes and never even see my students at all. On occasion I've used videoconferencing to teach students at outreach centers in the middle of hell-n-gone, whose access to my classroom would have been virtually impossible not too long ago.

Yes, much has changed, not the least of which is the level of basic writing skills, which has improved, albeit incrementally, as students engage in their own education, exploring, experimenting and re-trying more readily than they ever used to.

The one place where technology fails our students is in the home: the six or eights hours of television a night, the X-Boxes and PlayStations and iPhones and hundred other gadgets that lure them to stupor.

Do we need good teachers? Absolutely. The thing is, most teachers that I know, at every level of education, are dedicated, hard-working, self-sacrificing warriors in love with the magic of enlightenment. They're not the problem, even when you factor in the few who entered the wrong field and haven't figured it out yet, or the remaining handful of dinosaurs still hanging around who themselves stopped learning 'round about the time personal computers invaded their ivory tower Luddite world. Our teachers are by and large solid gold.

The problem isn't teachers or technology. The problem's our education paradigm. And there I'll shut up.

[jotsy]

39. I call it the U-scan approach to education, and I find it offensive.

When I noticed a wave of 'home-schooling' splashing around in the early to mid 90's, I thought long and hard and came to the conclusion I could not turn my back on the public education system. I'm not a big fan of the notions that have taken hold of how an education should be delivered in that setting. In the end, for me it was about all the education one receives in a less tangible light. In addition to expecting our children to learn how to read, write and count, there are social lessons to be learned as well. No little back lit box will see a sad face and offer a moment of comfort or confidence, only a human being can do that.

I find the faults in the system as fluid as they are, have nothing to do with the teachers who by and large are everyday heroes who spend their days in the company of many little pieces of our future. The idea that we can compensate movie stars, singers and athletes exponentially more speaks to a shallow society that refuses to invest in its own depth or capacity to reason and convey.

Kicked, as your posts usually are.

BTW, did I hear you on the Thom Hartmann show last week?

[Better Today]

40. After reading the entire story, I ended with a definite WTF!

When the teacher finally chose to speak, he said nothing except with regard to the idea that he and his weren't being listened to. I can understand his comment as a lead in, but to then not even answer the question or to give ideas or to explain why their ideas weren't sound? WTF!

As for teacherless classes, my son finished his last two years in one year so he could get out of high school early, it is a district presented program, not a GED program through private educators. He took online classes, never had a class to go to, never met a teacher. He did and continues to do fine.

[madfloridian]

62. Well, who needs teachers.

It's just like all the other fields where no person is needed.

We don't need teachers at all. Just turn the kids loose on an internet program and let er rip.

:shrug:

[Hannah Bell]

67. he didn't get a chance to follow up -- because they left the table. which is the point he's making.

the people pushing this aren't interested in dialogue, nor are they, for the most part, interested in fixing education, or in students.

[Dinger]

46. Not Surprised

Just so people know, teachers will NOT take this lying down! We're not DINOs, or tutu Dems. We vote, and anyone who doubts that will be sorry.

K & R (again)

[NJCher]

134. damn straight

and we're unionized, which means we're ORGANIZED.


Cher

[MH1]

51. How is 21st-century math different than 20th-century math

as far as grade school thru high school is concerned?

:crazy:

it gets more wacky from there but I can't help being stuck on that point.

[Leopolds Ghost]

69. Science marches on, and math with it! Just look at the US Economy, we're growing money from nothin!

[bobbolink]

70. Gotta love your gallows humor!

:pals:

[LiberalFighter]

157. How can they complain about not using 21st century methods?

When we are only 9 years into it.

[Mithreal]

63. damn

:cry:

Thank you, Mad.

[Joanne98]

72. We need a French revolution.

[puebloknot]

83. Mais oui! nt

[EmeraldCityGrl]

98. Just a parents perspective...

My children had diverse educational experiences. They attended traditional public schools, an expensive,
rigid private school, Montessori, a school that emphasized science with a space program, and an Alternative School.

Our experience taught us that very often it comes down to the individual teacher, and the dynamics between teacher/student.
Not to say they had a better learning experience with teachers they liked, but how well they responded to a teachers
ability to communicate, inspire interest and a desire to learn. Sometimes the most critical

Teaching truly is the hardest job on the planet.

[valerief]

110. Encore. nt

[WeDidIt]

74. Spending nearly thirty years in the trenches of IT

I am reminded of being a fly on the wall in a meeting of Executives in a large publicly traded corporation discussing the future strategies for IT in the company.

Seems to me, politicians and corporate executives have a similar mindset.

[maryf]

77. K&R nt

[LostInAnomie]

80. Technology has become the panacea of idiots.

Sadly, most school boards, and state and national committees on education are full of idiots.

I'm really glad I got out of teaching when I did. After only a few years, it became glaringly obvious to me that the people in charge of the direction of education had only a thinly veiled contempt for teachers and the profession of teaching in general. I really think in a few decades the job of a teaching will be reduced to that of a room monitor. They'll walk around to make sure students are continually clicking away on their mouses and giving them hall passes to go to the restroom.

[yurbud]

81. Most education ''reform'' is about privatizing and profiting and cutting out the labor part

if people could learn at home with just a computer, they would already be doing it.

Most of us need the social reinforcement to learn anything.

[puebloknot]

82. Stream-of-Consciousness response. No time to write an essay today!

1) If only our educational facilities were actually teaching 20th century skills like reading, writing, and arithmetic, and actually turning out students who learned those skills very well.

2) There *are* too many teachers who don't understand what they attempt to teach, because they are a product of our dumbed-down educational system. (I'm crticizing the system here, not the individual teachers. Although some of those teachers fail to take responsibility, and are defensive when told they need to improve.)

3) I have been asked to help with resumes of several early childhood teachers, and was amazed at the misspellings therein. If the "Teach" can't spell, what happens to the student? (But it would be interesting to conduct a test of the language and math skills of those Pols gathered around that table.)

4) Much can be learned online, but social skills have to be learned in the presence of real people.

5) A computer screen cannot give sympathy/empathy/understanding to a struggling student, as a real teacher can.

6) Having teachers interacting with students is an annoying stumbling block to total corporate control of American "education." Teaching, real teaching, *is* a subversive activity of the most exalted kind.

(edited for typos)

[Kitty Herder]

88. Amen, especially to this line:

"Teaching, real teaching, *is* a subversive activity of the most exalted kind."

Absolutely. Who hasn't had at least one teacher who changed their life?

But, as you say, there are teachers who don't understand the subjects they teach. When I was in high school, most of my teachers had degrees in physical education because the school wanted coaches, not teachers. Some of those teachers with the degrees in P.E. were also excellent at teaching. I had an absolutely top-notch English teacher and whose degree was in P.E. She was brilliant. But most were just putting in their time in the classroom, assigning reading from the textbook and administering the occasional test. I didn't learn anything from some of them.

My solution? Get sports teams out of schools. Have after-school sports clubs for those interested, but don't let it interfere with education. P.E. is all that's required in school to get kids moving. There's no need for football, basketball, wrestling, etc. teams in schools. They're a huge distraction and money waster.

[martigras]

101. Kitty Herder you are so right

At the high school where I taught for 36 years there were openings for 13 new teachers, 12 were hired, not for their expertise in their subject, but because they could coach some sport like Freshman B girls basketball. All the best candidates were turned away because they couldn't coach. Until parents pay more attention to the educational program than the football team, we are done.

[Lorien]

105. Agreed. I was fortunate and only attended private or alternative schools that never

invested in sports beyond gym class, where we learned everything from baseball to archery and ping pong. I've never heard any former students from those schools ever lament that they never got to be a jock or a cheerleader. If they wanted to play sports they joined an after school league.

[LiberalFighter]

159. But sports is the only thing the Pols are interested in when it comes to deciding who gets the money

Why do you think they spend so much time in the state legislatures honoring all the high school and college sports teams that win titles?

[kurtzapril4]

219. Yeah, I had a teacher who changed my life, alright.

I was in 3rd grade at Westmore School in Lombard, IL. It was early Spring. Sometime in the 1960's. The playground was dirty and slushy. I was however old you are in 3rd grade. I came in from recess, my dress was dirty.

My teacher, Mrs. Anderson, pulled me up front, in front of the whole class, and called me a pig. To my face. In front of everybody. She had decided she didn't like me...and I paid for it all that year, with her constant insults. I was an ultra shy, book-wormish, passive and not obnoxious child. You better believe that after the first couple of times she humiliated me I tried to fly low under the radar. Didn't work.

My mother stuck up for me. I have the documentation, which I discovered after my mom died, whilst going through her things.

You can bet your life Mrs. Anderson changed mine. Question authority always.

[LiberalFighter]

158. How many of those pols don't have assistants that write up their speeches.

And have secretaries that go through it and check for typos, etc?

[Reader Rabbit]

86. Everyone should print out five copies of this article.

One each for senators and congress-critter, one for Duncan, and one for Obama.

[defendandprotect]

92. These are the people who rise with the right -- "know-nothings" . . .

and they now hold the power ---


Meanwhile, there is that old saying . . .

"It ain't what you do it's the way that you do it --"

And I would apply that to adult learning --

Certainly we do want to head more in the direction of putting every kind of adult

education on tape and making it available --FREE!!

And certainly children can benefit from computers and in some sense directing their

own interests and education --

but there will be classrooms --

and there will be teachers --

Unless we're really nuts!!!

[yurbud]

100. they know one thing--they want government ed spending to end up in their pockets not teachers

[defendandprotect]

107. You know . . . I've read that there were times when 50% of the Federal Education Budget . . .

was money hidden in the budget for the CIA!!!!

I don't think we've taken Cheney's words seriously enough about the right wing

creating our reality --

[yurbud]

125. yikes! well, they gave blackwater contracts through the dept. of agriculture

so it's not that hard to believe.

[defendandprotect]

215. Didn't know about that one -- !!!

[twitomy]

94. what a bunch of dribble the "friends of educators" spoke.

"21st Century teaching" ?? WTF is that ? Last I knew 1 + 1 still equals 2.
You dont need "21st century teaching" to explain that.

Show me a successfull student and I will show you parents and teachers/administrators who give a damn.

[mudplanet]

95. All the crap about "teacherless classroom" and "21st century skills"

is code for "we aren't going to spend any money on education for the poor."

The refrain you most often hear when working out solutions to problems in education is "we can't just throw money at the problem." But, in fact, you can. As the late Molly Ivans pointed out, "That's what the rich do and it works every time."

I guarantee you that none of the people sitting at that table would ever subject one of their children to the education they are planning for everyone else. Their children are "special." When you point out to them that this crappy education they are planning for the "masses" means that they will never be able to earn a decent living, their response is "The world needs maids and truck drivers, too." What they mean is, "As long as it isn't my child."

This whole process is one of the best examples of class warfare I've ever seen.

[pleah]

99. K&R

[Lorien]

102. ....

http://www.ted.com/talks/taylor_mali_what_teachers_make.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. Thank you Lorien!

I love that essay :)

[BrklynLiberal]

126. That is FANTASTIC!!!!!

[YvonneCa]

138. Thank you. You made me...

...cry. :)

[Enthusiast]

148. That was great, Lorien!

Thanks for sharing.

[DollyM]

104. Jaycee Dugard seems to have done quite well for her children . . .

I find it interesting that the issue of Jaycee Dugard (she was kidnapped and held hostage for 18 years and had two children by her captor)and how she schooled her children is rather interesting, yet no one has touched it. Even though Jaycee only had an 8th grade education herself, her two daughters were both on grade level. I believe the oldest was 15 so she was on a grade level past her mother's formal education. Can anyone explain this? Her children did not have any of the benefits of formal education and probably not much in even books and basics. How she did this is beyond me.
The young man in Missouri that was kidnapped and held hostage for 4 years, Shawn Hornbeck, also did not have any form of schooling during this time yet is actually graduating from High School a year earlier than his present classmates. I work in a nursing home part time and have several residents that are very sharp when it come to playing a card game or dice. One in particular is very well spoken, can recite long passages of poetry and prose and knows math upside down and back wards. I thought for sure that she had been a teacher at one time. I discovered that she had only gone to school until the 8th grade, as had many of our residents. I am not so sure it is the quality of the education as much as the student. Maybe the technology that we tout so much is actually the thing that is rendering our children unable to think for themselves. As far as home schooling, yes, I think it will become more and more prevalent. We home schooled our son most of his life and not only had a child who excelled at his talents and abilities but also grew up to be kind, polite and respectful. He knew how to carry on an adult conversation because he had primarily been around adults. The education system in it's current form does not do that. I think we can learn from our past and maybe need to look at basics again. (I would put some of my nursing home residents with an 8th grade education up against some of todays college students, anytime!)

[burning rain]

106. I often suspect this "teacher(s) of the year" stuff amounts to simulating respect for teachers....

as a substitute for actually supporting and compensating them adequately. When I visit my folks in South Carolina, I often notice huge billboards with several people's faces on them, proclaiming them "teachers of the year" in this and that locale, despite--or rather, I suspect, precisely because--South Carolina doesn't want to spend shit on public education and looks to this sort of tokenism as a way of compensating.

[thesquanderer]

108. 21st century math IS different

I understand the problem of teaching 21st century students with 20th century skills. "Particularly math," as the poster mentioned.

In the 20th century, a majority of 100 was anything over 50. In the 21st century, a majority of 100 is 60.

In the 20th century, a big company that owed more than it was worth had a negative value. In the 21st century, big companies can never have a negative value.

Teachers clearly need new skills.

[madfloridian]

118. "In the 21st century, a majority of 100 is 60"

Sure seems that way lately. :-)

[JVS]

142. or 41

[madfloridian]

144. Yep, 41 will do the trick.

:eyes:

It alarms me the power that the minority has.

[piedmont]

171. Dang, haven't y'all ever heard of the new field of Situational Math?

Catch up with the times!

[Turbineguy]

115. Famed speaker builder Paul Klipsch

is reputed to have asked, "Did they change the laws of physics?" when somebody suggested that his speakers were no longer modern.

[quaker bill]

121. The schools started "failing" down south

when they were integrated. Republicans have run with this meme ever since. Whenever in power, something quite frequent since the late sixties in the south, they cut funding, institute high stakes testing, and create masses of "accountability" paperwork, to burn up the remaining teacher resources to assure "failure". When that does not work, they adjust the testing to assure sufficient reported "failure" to sustain the political issue.

The high school that I, my son, and my daughter went to is a recent example. It happens to be one of the best academic high schools in the state of FL. It had been a consistent "A" school from the time such grading was adopted, and has consistently produced national merit scholars in numbers rarely seen elsewhere in the state. It still does.

Last year it slipped to a "B" school. Why did it slip a letter grade? Apparently on the high stakes testing, the school attained all the necessary points to be an "A" school. However, out of the 900 students in the class tested, two of the very slowest kids did not improve quite enough on their reading score. While the rest of this group did well enough, the two that did not, prevented one of the boxes from being checked, resulting in a lower grade.

My daughter and a great many of her friends gained academic scholarships. The school is actually better managed and physically improved since I attended, a long time ago. The entire system, under republican control, is created and intended to find and publicly report "failure" to prove a political point in service of a far darker agenda.

[BrklynLiberal]

124. an uneducated populace would be the repukes' fondest dream...

[JDPriestly]

127. As for parents who complain about the schools their kids go to:

Throw out all the TVs and video games in your house and replace them with books, and make sure your kids don't visit friends with TVs. Get your kids to read, read, read and play math games, and watch their grades improve.

And above all, stop blaming the teachers and start blaming your own kids and yourselves.

Education starts at home. If you can't discipline your two - six children, don't expect their teacher to discipline 35 of them.

[xchrom]

129. Recommend

[Danger Mouse]

131. As corporations turn our schools into meat grinders, teachers become the gears, or...

they won't last long.

Just one part of the eventual model.

The Corporate School: Students are taught fealty to the corporation almighty, the basics, no critical thought, kept dumb and complacent. They are given their scrap of paper and shunted into...

The Military (brought to you by the Corporate Overlords): They are pre-fitted with uniforms and body bags, sent off to the front, and get to die for the glory of the Corporation! Profits! Bigger mansions! American Idol! Fast food! Better computers!

[jotsy]

141. They must know they are erasing a generation's intellect, and yet can't see how weak minded

it means they, themselves must be.

[winyanstaz]

135. Don't blame the politicians for once again using a tried and true method.....

to overthrow the old ways and establish their new agenda.
This has been done from the beginning of time.
For example:
When the 'New" religion of Christianity became popular and decided to be the main religion..they set about destroying everything about the old ways.
They came first for the Teachers, the Healers, the High Priests and Priestesses, the midwives and the Herbalists. At the same time they began to "demonize" these people so their deaths would be more acceptable to the ignorant masses.
In other words, they came first for the people with the knowledge and education and leadership to guide the people.
Another example would be Hitler.
They first came for the thinkers, the professors and the ones most able to speak out and lead the people. At the same time they began to "demonize" the deformed, the crippled, and the people of other races and religions.
We have seen this so many times in history we should know what is happening by now.

[YvonneCa]

139. This is AMAZING! Thank you for posting...

...this article. It made my day. :)

[Greyhound]

140. K&R

[Enthusiast]

146. With an approach like this

we end up with results like "You're doing a heck of a job, Brownie!"

20th century teaching methods were superior. We should study teaching methods of the past so as to incorporate them into today's classroom.

[callous taoboy]

147. "a teacherless classroom..." Let's shoot for "parentless childhoods" as well.

[Dinger]

152. Touché

You nailed it callous taoboy.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

149. We know the longterm goal is privatization. I think that we should beat them at their own game.

As some have mentioned, a lot of this debate seems focused on Sales and Profit - selling and/or forcing school systems to buy equipment and programs. The constant testing is used as a tool to force the sales - schools are provably inadequate because they lack the proper equipment, etc. plus the testing is a way to hold down and terrorize teachers. How many times have you heard about teachers/adminstrators fudging the results? That was a very instructional post above about 2 students bringing down the aggregate score of the entire school - who also hasn't read about slow learners suddenly being sick or unavailable during testing days?

I wonder about a whole side issue no one has mentioned - perhaps the children physically do learn differently because some of them have been medicated since early childhood and no one knows what the long-term results are. I see these children as being medically "controlled". Why did we never have the pervasive problem of ADHD disorder during the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's? Could it be because there wasn't a drug in place to peddle? Someone mentioned above that a lot of what we experience in education is "solutions in search of problems" - brilliant!

Anyway, back to the title of my thread. My vision for the future of education is the return of small academies, either funded by the state with vouchers or privately funded. Many people reject public education not because of the quality of the teachers or the learning, but because of the social hazards: violence, bullying, social caste systems, etc. Plenty of people home school for those reasons, purely as a matter of safety and security.

I think it would be cool if a group of parents came together and hired a teacher or two on their own to educate smaller groups of children/students. This is what I mean by the word academy - I'm thinking of the Socratic model. It's almost like the return of the one room school house - small groups educated by dedicated teachers who are allowed to teach. If 10 families of 10 ten-year olds got together and managed to find 6K apiece (either their own money or a voucher) to hire a teacher, the class size would be 10 and the teacher would make 60K. The learning group is small enough that someone's basement rec room could accomodate them. Or perhaps we'll get to a point where the parents rent a space with desk and chairs. Or perhaps a private company (founded by an ACTUAL teacher) comes up with this as their model and provides the space. Anyway, with this model, there is no giant administrative bureacracy, the teachers are well-paid with smaller class size and the social hazard aspects are mitigated. Kids can still join athletic leagues, drama club, etc. that is outside of this structure.

I think the Profit education people are trying to kill home-schooling in some areas by trying to make degreed or certified instruction mandatory (sometimes teahcers ARE valuable to them!)My model would work if they suceeded in doing that.

[midnight]

150. Someone is thinking ahead....

The Harvard professor tugs at his chin with his right thumb and index finger and compliments the senator. "In the future," he says, "students will be learning at home using their computers. School buildings and classrooms will not be the primary learning environment." Really? Could any sane person envision millions of school children staying home and learning a full curriculum online? I foresee a stay-at-home mom or dad spending most of the day trying to keep their children away from Facebook.

[lazarus]

153. I'd like to know

who the bastard is who invented "writing to read". That fucked my daughter up. She still has trouble reading at 18. After being trashed by the public school system/charter school system here in San Diego, we finally got her in a private school for special needs kids (she's ADD and bipolar). Her grades have magically come up. No fancy technology. White boards in all the classrooms. A small computer lab. But there are teachers who care, and no more than 10 kids in a class, usually fewer.

My only problem now is undoing all the bad habits she learned while failing for most of her life.

[Blue_Tires]

156. ttt

[ZoeyQ]

161. Wheatland HS bans "No Place for Hate" banner and program

Hi,
I live in Wheatland WY. The school board banned the No Place for Hate program at WHS because it is sponsored in part by the Colorado Gan and Lesbian Fund. The story and links and comments are available at www.wheatland.com

We just started a petition and we are hoping for 10,000 signatures. Would you sign it and pass it around? We're going for 10,000 signatures to really make them sit back and take notice. There are only 3,500 people in Wheatland, and 300 at WHS. The only we can get that many sigs is if a LOT of people sign and PASS IT ON via Twitter and blogs and just plain email. I am writing to PFLAG groups to try and get signatures. We want to do this in a peaceful way, and show people that there is nothing to fear but hate itself. Please sign and pass it on! If you have Twitter, that’s great.

Wheatland is an ok place. We can make it better by showing those four people who made this bad decision that they don't speak for ALL of Wheatland, or Wyoming. Hope you can sign and pass it on and let them see that.

Thank you!

Zoey Quinn
www.wheaterville.com

[ZoeyQ]

228. Wrong url! It's www.WHEATERVILLE.com !

Sorry...all the info is at www.wheaterville.com !

thanks to everyone who signed the petition.

z

[smoogatz]

162. I've been teaching at the college level for sixteen years.

I'm now a tenure-track assistant prof at a medium-sized public liberal arts university. I teach creative writing, comp and lit. Here's my observation about my students, particularly as they come into the university as freshmen: the vast majority of them don't know shit. Which is to say, they know all about the latest and greatest technology (their speed and dexterity at texting each other in class is breathtaking!)--which will all be completely obsolete in a year or two--but with rare exceptions they can't write a coherent English sentence, none of them have read anything more challenging than Harry Potter and/or Twilight, and almost none of them can reason their way out of a wet paper bag. In my own experience of teaching, here's what works: small classes with good teachers. Exchange of ideas. Reading, reading, reading, modeling, writing, discussion, more reading. Here's what doesn't work: big classes with Powerpoint. Ditto big classes broken into small groups, in which students "teach themselves" (i.e., gossip about who hooked up with who over the weekend). Ditto peer editing ("Madison's paper is awesome!"). Ditto pretty much all the feel-goody, touchy-feely, warm and fuzzy pedagogical "advances" of the last generation or so. Ditto technology as a substitute for reading, modeling, writing and discussion. Here's the thing about tech in the public schools: it's a sop. It's a relatively low-cost (but relatively ineffective) replacement for what works: good teachers in small classes. Can't do that (oh no! Too expensive! Teachers are the enemy!), so instead we spend millions or billions in tech junk that will literally be obsolete before it's installed (but from which somebody gets to make a big fat profit), which students can be trained to use in about twenty minutes and will then find unspeakably boring, and which actually does nothing to educate or inform them because it's principally designed to make the classroom more entertaining (which it does, for a day or two), and may actually prevent them to some extent from being prepared to move on to the college level. As for the argument that students now learn differently than students a generation ago: this is true, but only to the extent that they've been zombified by TV and computers and video games, and taught to sit passively and stare at the flashy things on the screen all day because it's much easier than actually thinking. Carlin was right: what the corporate bosses who run this country want are obedient workers--not an educated electorate that's capable of critical thinking and actually wants its fair share of political power. The best way to create those obedient workers is to get them started early on in the business of staring at computer screens all day: it's a short hop from there to the cubicle--and that's if they're lucky.

[KansDem]

166. "...the vast majority of them don't know shit. "

Hi, smoogatz!

I am a librarian at a large urban public library and conduct tours as part of my responsibilities. The tour groups usually consist of senior-citizen groups, book clubs, and school classes. Now, I understand the interest expressed by social and cultural organizations—the library is often part of a day-out tour of the downtown as there are many historic sites to see here, usually involving lunch at one of the city’s fine eateries. But I wondered about the school classes. Often these tours include catalog and database demonstrations. I thought, “Why bring a class of students to the public library when they have their own libraries back at school?” But, I figured there must be a logical reason—perhaps there was a need for a field trip to the downtown area to show students the public library. After all, it can’t be assumed that all students graduating from high school will go on to college. Therefore, these students should be exposed to information resources available at the public library.

However, after one such tour, I was chatting with the teacher at the entrance on the main floor. The students were doing research on a project and were told to congregate there at a certain time to go to lunch and then back to school. So I asked the teacher about her school’s interest in the public library and what she had hoped her students would get out of the visit. She said this was their day to learn “research skills.” She informed me her school didn’t have a library! WHAT??!!!, I thought. No library?

I was able to subdue my disbelief with a faint smile and a nod. But, really—no library? How are the kids supposed to learn the process of research? Being able to seek out information are important skills for everyone, whether or not they’re going on to college, but a few hours one day a year isn’t going to cultivate those skills. This is outrageous: Trillions of dollars for the Iraq and Afghanistan invasion and occupation, but no money to build libraries for American high schools?

The school situation here in Kansas City, Missouri is rather dismal. The Kansas City School District is in dire straits and has been for years. Last year it has hired its 26th superintendent in 40 years.

When I'm asked to conduct database-research classes, I'm often confronted with last-minute scheduling and haphazard efforts to organize such classes. And given ridiculous time constraints, I try to show them as much as I can on how to search an online catalog of a library’s holdings and demonstrate databases like ProQuest, EbscoHost, and others (I’ve been trying to get the library to do a trial with JSTOR—archived journal articles—but have been met with lackluster responses. I think it would be helpful for high-school and college students), but there’s only so much one can do in 30 minutes.

I believe this cavalier approach to the research process erodes student attitudes. It saddens me when I conduct classes and see students either nodding off (I don’t think it’s because I’m boring!), or congregating in their cliques to visit while not paying attention. They just don’t seem that concerned with learning how to find information. They don’t seem to understand this is about them and their futures. I feel bad for them as I know it’ll come back to haunt them. But I try my best.

The need for information literacy is becoming a greater concern in this country. I’ve noticed this in national trends in libraries specifically and education in general. And I’ve noticed this particularly in library vacancies in academia. Last year, I applied to a university opening in California as I want to return to academia. The position was listed as “Information Fluency Librarian,” and stressed the need for the candidate to have experience in teaching information-seeking and research skills. I see this need for “information fluency” more and more—it’s a sign of our times.

But I'm afraid it really isn't addressed in library schools. I had to laugh—last summer we had a MLS-student observe us for a few hours as part of a class. She was to do a write-up following her day with us. Anyway, I remarked to her that we cannot assume that users of the public library know how to find information. She then proceeded to tell me that her library-science professors said librarians will be working with more difficult questions as all the easier ones will be answered via the Internet. I about fell over when I heard that! She was half correct: people are finding information online, but we aren’t receiving “difficult” questions. Quite the contrary...

While it is true that 2009 marks the 20th anniversary of the founding of the World Wide Web and there are certainly more PCs in homes and offices than in 1989, and while more folks are finding information themselves via Google and other online information sources, the sad fact is that I'm confronted daily at the library with users who don’t know how to use a standard dictionary or encyclopedia, let alone more complex research skills. I’m appalled at how many users have to rely on “experts” for basic information. I really don’t know why that is but suspect it has to do with priorities and values.

Perhaps we took this kind of skill for granted. As I was growing up, my family maintained a reference collection. It contained a dictionary, encyclopedia, atlas, almanac and a few other information sources. I used that collection all through school and I assumed everyone else used their home reference collections as well. I assumed this was standard practice with families with school-aged children. However, it appears I assumed incorrectly.

Perhaps I’m “old-fashion,” but there are some tangibles we shouldn’t scrimp on. Education is one, but then, I’m the kind of guy who believes education, energy, and health are national security issues and shouldn’t be in the hands of private concerns. Maybe if we had pursued these three as national priorities during the 20th century, we wouldn’t have some 46 million Americans today without affordable health care and wouldn’t have the (then-)president’s friends and business partners flying airliners into New York’s tallest buildings. And our high schools would have libraries.

KansDem

[smoogatz]

169. Yep.

Obsolete computers in every classroom, but no damn library and no ability to research anything except on Google. I get this all the time: kids who are shocked/outraged that I make them use actual print sources from time to time. Print!?!??! WTF?!?!?!

On edit: I actually do the same thing here--take my freshmen across campus to the library every semester for a two-hour primer on how to access the various library databases, etc. Most all of them have never done ANY library research before, and have real problems finding their way around at first--so we make them do it over and over. The librarians are great--very knowledgeable, very welcoming and helpful.

Another pet peeve about public education: too much group work, too much emphasis on teams. Teamwork is fine (although it often seems to me a handy way for students to avoid taking responsibility for poor results), but ultimately there's no substitute for sticking your nose in a challenging book or sitting down to think through your argument and then writing it down.

[abelenkpe]

175. I learned a lot from group work in school.

What I learned was everyone else wanted someone else to do the bulk of the work for them, or to do as little as possible as part of the group effort. I usually ended up reluctantly leading the effort and doing most of the work. It taught me a lot about myself and the way our society works. It's common to hear people joke about road construction workers as a group of men standing around watching one person do the actual work. How is that different from most jobs? Especially office or computer jobs where layers and layers of management sit around holding meetings devising plans to outsource work to underpaid freelancers or people overseas and do little of the actual work themselves. It's a great setup where management takes all the credit and workers all the blame. Everything is like that. Lots of people advising and administering and managing and few actually producing. It's just the way it is. So thank you public school for showing me reality.

There is no substitute for challenging oneself. But beware, if you are seen as hard working and dependable you will attract dependents. I'm not sure who is smarter. The person letting someone else do all the work, or the person who can do the work.

[smoogatz]

176. The person who lets others do the work

may do very well in the corporate world, or in government. But they'll never write a great novel, never invent anything useful, never devise solutions to difficult problems. I never assign group work anymore, for exactly the reason you cite: one kid ends up doing the project while the others sit around, jerking off. It's patently unfair to the kids who end up taking the lead, and it lets the slackers off the hook--which is the worst thing for them. I have no interest in teaching in a way that emulates some fucked-up corporate model (which emulates some fucked-up sports model). I'm not preparing obedient workers for the marketplace. I'm training subversives, whether they know it or not.

[tonysam]

191. Sometimes group work is okay,

but most of the time students need to do the work on their own. In real life--supposedly--people succeed or fail on their own "merits," whatever "merit" means.

[onlyadream]

163. The objective of the OP is to go to the source

to find out what is wrong or right with education. That makes sense. Also go to the parents.

There is a lot of truth about educators being stuck in the 20th century, refusing to have a website, or use the schools' websites (refusing to post grades, assignment, etc.). I (as a parent) find the biggest problem is that SOME teachers get tenure and then they sit back and relax. The poor kids who get these lame teachers end up paying for it.

About two weeks ago, my school district added a "parent portal", and now I can go on-line and see every grade my kids gets. I can see every absence or tardy. This was such a great idea. I saw that my kids missed handing in 3 assignments in one class. You can bet that she was punished.

[tonysam]

193. Why do teachers NEED an effing website?

They can hand out assignments on real paper, they can give grades on real paper, they can put grades in real grade books.

Good God, some people are so fricking helpless they think they can't function unless it is on a computer.

[onlyadream]

194. really?

Why does anyone need a website? It offers information and information gathering/sharing is the whole reason the internet was invented (thru universities). I've seen websites by teachers and they were awesome - you got to see what the kids were doing, what they were reading and learning. If a kid missed something, it was there. If the kid wanted to read ahead, they would know what book to read next. Also, the info is invaluable to a parent who wants to know what is going on. My kid doesn't show me all her tests...but now I see the grades. If she doesn't hand in HW, I'll know. She can also see her averages at any moment, so she knows how she's doing. How is this a bad thing??

[tonysam]

221. You don't NEED it. No teacher needs to waste his or her time

on frivolous ideas.

There is ENOUGH to do without that.

[onlyadream]

226. I guess we have to agree to disagree

I think the benefits outweigh the work involved. Besides, most schools have websites which offer the teacher a space for their class. Some take advantage of it and some don't. I think the ones that do are better teachers.

BTW, a website really isn't all that much work. Everyone I know, practically has one (including my 10yo son). I have one too - no big deal.

[madfloridian]

227. I spent hours talking to parents, hours on the phone....

There was no website needed. Communication face to face or on the phone is real communication. It's personal, it's caring.

I called two different parents a day, all year long....just to chat and see if there were questions.

Teachers need to do what best suits the needs of their students and parents.

[Robb]

202. And we at DU

...should just get together in a gym somewhere every day? :D

[izzybeans]

167. I wonder if that "midwest governer" was Mitch Daniels of Indiana.

He's totally gutting the educational system there with similar bs talk about teachers not having the knowledge they need for the "21st century".

It's there way of destroying the schools.

[Jokerman]

197. My thoughts exactly.

He is on record as saying the public school system is a failure and any money spent there is wasted.

[Nikki Stone1]

168. OMG K & R

.

[pundaint]

170. I am amazed that anybody is willing to do the paperwork necessary to teach

Must less deal with administrators and politicians and parents who take none of the burden but second guess everything. Thanks teachers

[kestrel91316]

172. Private schools, charter schools with only non-union teachers,

and ultimately teacherless schools.

Yep. Sounds like a plan. Of course, all the schools will be owned and run by private corporations for profit. And they excel at teaching consumerism and obedience to church and corporation.

[tonysam]

173. I don't see how it can be stopped, frankly

Most people don't even know what in the hell is going on. This is probably the most destructive trend in our entire country, for it goes to the heart of what our democracy is about.

[1776Forever]

174. Wow all I could think of is the back scratching of the Congress - It is all about them & money!

How about the real problems? Sick!

[tonysam]

178. I am hoping at least one of the many NYC teacher bloggers

will upload on YouTube the upcoming report tonight on the city's "rubber rooms" and the lawsuit against the DOE.

This interview is about the class action lawsuit against DoE
initiated by a group of teachers in the rubber rooms

History will be made by CBS Channel 2 Television News
When: Monday 11 PM
Where: Channel 2, CBS, NYC

Who: Legendary News Reporter
Pablo Guzman
Interviews:

Attorney Dr. Joy Hochstadt, Esq.
Representing and with:
David Pakter



I thought I'd put it here for visibility as well.

[newspeak]

183. so, it seems that children can stay home, learn on the computer

information--by rote, nothing but information. However, will there be interaction between students for passing information, dialogue and debate. Or are they just going to memorize anything that's on the computer? How about logic. Will there be interactive dialogue using logic. How about political discourse, or classes on civil and governmental courses? Will the computers offer any creative courses, music, art? Or, are children to be schooled as machines now?

It seems that some educators don't want people to actually exercise their brain. I've had more than one person tell me that people now days can't even count back change--they depend on the machine to tell them how much is to be given back. I remember in school when we had to use a slide rule (dating myself), but in college, in trigonometry, the teacher told us to only use the calculator. Now, I had a wonderful algebra teacher, who showed us various ways to get the answer to the problem--while another teacher wanted it done step-by-step by his way only, miss a step and it was all wrong. My teacher wanted us to actually use our brains, to actually figure out that there was more than one way to come up with the answer.

And, staying home and using a computer, looks like to me, has the capacity of making "zombie" students, shove it in their minds, and maybe they can spit it out later. No interaction with others, no discourse, no lessons in logic or independent thinking.

[abelenkpe]

184. Privatization is an effort to Cut Pensions

and break up the Union. Governments are bankrupt and want to get out of paying pensions to union members.
Businesses are greedily looking on in hopes of landing a nice fat government contract taking over schools where they will hire teachers for less pay and not be burdened by providing retirement or health care.

It will ultimately cost taxpayers more and accomplish less. Privatization is a seriously flawed idea and needs to be aggressively countered.

[akforme]

210. Is that why countries who have it kick our ass?

Privatization of war, and things government officials choose are bad, very bad because it's easy to pay off the person making the choice. But schools could work very well and do all over the world. The thing is the money gets attached to the student. In order for the school to get the money, they need to attract the student to go there. Getting better teachers, offering more options, being frugal with money, will all take place or nobody decides to go there or they go broke. This makes the teachers better, the schools better and our money go further thru competition.

If they do it with the structure we have now the money get attached to the school and it's monopoly to the kids in that area, then it will get abused and that is worse.

[newspeak]

187. This talk deeply concerns me

I went to a progressive high school in the seventies. It was the time of of the Vietnam war--we held debates over societal matters, everything from pro-choice to the war. Debates were held not only in our world problems class, but even in our english class. We, as a class, had to defend our argument on the subject-there was interaction--there was perceptions on how others think.

A student sits down and is fed information--there may be flaws in that information. A student might think "yes, but... or why". I've said before how my daughter challenged the beginnings of monotheism in her class, she was to bring in proof (information) defending her position-it became a discussion in class. It seems what students will learn will be nothing but digesting information, and who is going to challenge the information fed to them? No one. To me, this is very serious-being spoon fed curriculum with no challenge, no debate, apparently no thought or reasoning.

[erinlough]

211. I went to high school in the 70's

and I remember fondly the deep discussions we would have in high school classes. I came out of college still in the 70's and started teaching. Even in middle school we discussed the news of the day freely.

I still teach and we do not discuss controversial topics for fear of parent outrage. It is a much different time my friend. I am very closed about my beliefs and my political leanings, as I am about religion, philosophy, etc. We are to present the curriculum period, oh and prepare them for the tests, which take 11 days per year. The turning point in my mind was the rise of the eagle forum, Phyllis Shafley, and the moral majority. Things have never been the same. Free exchange of ideas is a danger to closed minds.

[krabigirl]

192. Hmmm. My husband is a co-owner of one of these teaching software companies.

For math, but it's designed to HELP the teacher. It has been adapted for home learning, but what has made it do well is that it helps actual teachers, mainly in high school and college. I shudder to think what it would be like without a teacher! Lol, it's not like the students chose to use the software on their own. And it's only a very small portion of the class.

The people at this conference sound completely clueless. Scary.

[Liberal_in_LA]

208. a lot of head nodding in that room. Interesting. Thanks for posting

[tonysam]

223. WCBS-TV tonight had a report on NYC's rubber rooms

Here is the link to the video library:

link

The title of the report: CBS 2 Hidden Camera: Inside Teacher 'Rubber Rooms'

[onpatrol98]

224. Wow!

That whole "rubber room" thing is crazy. My state is a right to work (so they say) state. They simply don't renew your contract for the next year. $53 million dollars per year to keep teachers in a room. Some teachers have stayed for up to 7 years. That's just amazing. Thanks for the post.

[tonysam]

225. It's not known to many people outside of NYC teachers

Teachers in other states are simply sent home without pay, or put in other parts of the school district waiting for the (almost always) phony charges to be adjudicated.

This is the first news program I am aware of in the country about the rubber rooms.