No pimping of bin-Laden from this new administration

[bigtree]

"What I say to the American people when I am out there is, all you got to do is listen to what Osama bin Laden says." -- Bush, 10/11/06


"Don't believe me," Bush told Americans when he was in office. "Listen to the enemy, or listen to Mr. Zawahiri, the number two of al Qaeda, both of whom made it clear that Iraq is central in their plans."

"I take the words of the enemy very seriously," Bush said, "and so should the American people."

Bush was mesmerized with the words of the terrorist propagandists. That's why Bush kept our soldiers bogged down in Iraq. He was listening to bin-Laden instead of the American people. Bin-Laden (or the animated specter of him) loved keeping our forces bogged down in Iraq by just issuing one of his video diatribes. How could he and his al-Qaeda cohorts have engineered a better diversion than Bush provided by listening to and following bin-Laden's whispered scheme?

In many ways this Obama administration is falling into the scheme of al-Qaeda to draw American forces within reach of their bombs and bullets and provoke American soldiers into killing Muslims and enlisting them in his grudge match with the U.S.. In many ways, though, this new administration has shied away from directly responding to each and every dispatch from the fugitive terrorists.

In keeping with the president's view that the invasion and occupation of Iraq provides a ready recruiting poster for al-Qaeda, he's set about ending the 7-year mission. In keeping with the president's view that Gitmo provides a ready recruitment poster, he's set about shutting it down.

Just as importantly, the president has resisted echoing the words of the fugitive propagandists or shuffling terror alerts and warnings to generate the type of fear in the American public Bush deliberately generated to keep the country bound to his militarism.

I like the way Pres. Obama has (so far) resisted using the recent, botched airplane bombing as a pretext to spread our military forces mission to Yemen (where the bomber allegedly found support). I also like the low-key, non-conflated response to the latest screed from whoever is posing as bin-laden these days.

from the AP: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/24/AR2010012401231_pf.html

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said "nobody's had a chance to authenticate that tape," and he declined comment on whether the U.S. believes bin Laden played any role in the Christmas incident.

Speaking on "Fox News Sunday," Gibbs said, "Everybody in this world understands that this is somebody that has to pop up in our lives over an audio tape because he's nothing but a cowardly murderous thug and terrorist that will some day - hopefully soon - be brought to justice."

State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said there appeared to be no special significance to the bin Laden tape beyond confirming the U.S. view that he remains determined to serve as a "catalyst" for terrorist actions even as he and his senior lieutenants are limited in their ability to plan and direct attacks.

"They offer strategic guidance and rely on their affiliates to carry out that strategic guidance," Crowley said in an interview. The audio tape made public Sunday offers no evidence that bin Laden's relationship with affiliates such as al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, based in Yemen, has changed, Crowley said.

"He's trying to continue to appear relevant" by talking up an attempted attack by an affiliate, Crowley added.

Bush wanted us to be afraid. That was his platform for his republican campaigns. Fear. "If we were to leave early before the job is done in Iraq, the "enemy will follow us," Bush told us. If you voted his republican enablers out of office, the 'enemies' would supposedly overtake us. We knew this, Bush said, because he'd been listening to what bin-Laden said . . . instead of listening to the American people.

None of that nonsense from this president (so far). I like the change.

[bigtree]

1. kick

[bigtree]

2. .

[NICO9000]

3. Notice how they're always only audio tapes now?

There hasn't been a video of UBL/OBL in years. I've come to the conclusion that he's been dead for a while, but is still a valuable asset as a bogeyman, the Charles Manson of terrorism.

[puebloknot]

5. But Robert Gibbs, Press Secretary for President Obama ...

... is helping to keep the bogeyman alive with this statement:

Gibbs said, "Everybody in this world understands that this is somebody that has to pop up in our lives over an audio tape because he's nothing but a cowardly murderous thug and terrorist that will some day - hopefully soon - be brought to justice."

Everybody in this world minus 1 (at least), and that one would be me!

Maybe they've "captured" Bin Laden and had a taxidermist fix him up so they can bring him to justice (and mount him on a wall in the White House).

Pardon my skepticism.

[bigtree]

6. that's a big change from the last administration

You can't have already forgotten what Bush and Cheney did with each and every missive from terror inc.. I can't recall anyone from that White House downplaying any of the statements attributed to the fugitive 9-11 terror suspects. Their favorite pastime was stoking fear behind the steady, reliable flow of threats from their partners in their terror war.

Gibbs is right. Bin-Laden was (is?) just a cowardly thug who deserved(s) to be brought to justice.

[Mithreal]

8. Bush attempted to downplay Bin Laden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o

[bigtree]

9. bush personally highlighted each and every statement bin laden made when he was president

. . . most notably during the election season; often opening his speeches with the latest screed from whoever was posing as the fugitive terror suspect.


"We must remember the words of the enemy. We must listen to what they say . . . Bin Laden has declared that "the war in Iraq is for you or us to win. If we win it, it means your disgrace and defeat forever." Iraq is one of several fronts in the war on terror -- but it's the central front -- it's the central front for the enemy that attacked us and wants to attack us again. And it's the central front for the United States and to withdraw without getting the job done would be devastating." --Bush at VFW August 2007


"If you don't believe me, if people in Colorado are doubtful about whether Iraq is important to the security of the United States, I would hope they would listen to the words of Osama bin Laden, or the number two man in al Qaeda, Zawahiri, both of whom have proclaimed loud and clear that Iraq is essential to their plans." --October 4, 2006, Remarks by Bush at Bob Beauprez for Governor and Colorado Republican Party Reception:


"We know what the terrorists intend to do because they've told us -- and we need to take their words seriously." -- Bush, discussing his 'War on Terror' 9/05/2006


. . . Iraq is a part of the war on terror. Now, I recognize Democrats say that's not the case, and what I say to the American people when I am out there is, all you got to do is listen to what Osama bin Laden says . . . Don't believe me that it's a part of the war on terror; listen to the enemy, or listen to Mr. Zawahiri, the number two of al Qaeda, both of whom made it clear that Iraq is central in their plans. --October 11, 2006 Bush Press Conference The Rose Garden

[Mithreal]

12. True, but it has only been one year.

And the point I made earlier is that Bush did try to downplay Bin Laden and other times came out guns blazing. Maybe if President Obama feels more pressure against his escalations, he would do the same. I hope you are right about him and I also hope he will not choose to use Bush's rhetoric, but if people are just as dead under our Peace President as under Bush, War President, how satisfying must your distinction be for the victim's families and friends.

Want to know one source of my anger? The speech given to cadets at West Point, December 1, 2009. Another, the controversial Peace Prize speech. There are others.

Dead is dead, regardless of hang 'em high talk or not.

[puebloknot]

16. LIHOP/MIHOP. NT

[azmouse]

4. K&R

:thumbsup:

[Mithreal]

7. Agreed on that severely lowbrow Bush rhetoric, but wrt bombing Yemen

"I like the way Pres. Obama has (so far) resisted using the recent, botched airplane bombing as a pretext to spread our military forces mission to Yemen (where the bomber allegedly found support)."

US Attacking Yemen After All
Cruise Missiles Hit Multiple Sites in Concert With Yemeni Govt
by Jason Ditz, December 18, 2009

http://news.antiwar.com/2009/12/18/us-attacking-yemen-after-all/

The Obama administration began attacking Yemen in advance and intelligence fumble-FUBAR'd preventing the allegedly Yemen supported bomber.

ANYONE paying attention to the news instead of focusing on family and holidays like we should be able to do, knew we were attacking Yemen.

So, while Obama is much more gifted and maybe he does deserve some recognition for not using the previous fool's approach to stirring up shitloads of fear, the people of Yemen we attacked are still injured or dead.

I am not going to praise our "Peace" President for not using Bush rhetoric. Is this how far the administration has fallen that we now must repeat, "better than Bush" to ourselves. For gawd's sakes, I can't stand Bush but would not be surprised if his idiocy was some kind of birth defect combined with additional brain damage from alcohol and drug abuse. So, Obama is gifted, let's praise him for that, whatever.

The gift wrapping on our foreign policy is a little tighter and the bow fancier, but we are still causing excessive damage to others who cannot defend themselves.

Let's wait and see. I hope you are right. It would not surprise me either way.

[bigtree]

10. It does make a difference how the administration responds to these 'attacks'

. . . both rhetorically and materially.

I'm not in favor of the bombings either, but my point was about the introduction of ground forces and an escalation of the already simmering conflicts there.

So far, the military response has been limited, with several requests for missile strikes rejected by this administration before relenting to the strikes BEFORE the botched plane bomber lit his crotch on fire. So far, there hasn't been any overt U.S. military response to the botched plane attack. (To the point of the op) that change from what we'd expect from the last administration deserves notice, whether you want to 'cheer' it or not.

[Mithreal]

13. I normally agree with much of what you say.

I won't cheer more responsible rhetoric though. It is something we should expect and a bare minimum for an elected member of the Democratic Party. Bush setting the bar as low as he did is having strange consequences on our discussions. If you want to highlight, knock it out of the park, but we are still murdering people in unjust wars.

[applegrove]

11. I think the Christmas day bombing attempt in Detroit was planned and orchestrated

by al Qaeda on the Arabian Peninsula (Yemen) like what was first claimed. I think Osama is very weak and they are on the defensive in Pakistan. So he takes credit for this bombing attempt after the fact to make himself and his organization look strong.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[applegrove]

15. I don't agree.

[Mithreal]

17. Comparing Obama to Bush is liking comparing Rocky Road to Tooti Fruiti.

Bush reached out to hispanics. He speaks Spanish poorly and has people of Spanish descent in the family. Obama on the other hand has family who are Muslim and lived in a Muslim country. When he reaches out to Muslims he receives high praise and sure, he deserves praise for reaching out with words. However, that praise should not ignore we are also occupying and murdering Muslims.

It is sort of like praising Bush for hispanic outreach while our nation's immigration policy is tragically broken which is even less fair and more dishonest than criticizing Obama for his actions as CIC because that is a President's chief responsibility. So we have this really piss poor immigration policy, but we can reach out to hispanics to lessen the damage we do their communities from busting down their doors, ripping them from their families, and deporting them. But hey, if you catch a few honest to goodness Americans in your dragnet, we will fix that eventually, ICE prisons are cozy after all. We can always make up for it in the rhetoric later. I would not like to be an American that is looked at with suspicion because of my ancestry but that is what we continue to do and people see through the words that are wooden nickels.

President Obama gets to close Guantanamo while still supporting many Bush anti-human policies. And hell, Bagram prison could use another wing, give me an Amen. Americans won't object to Bagram will they, when they find out we hung a NEW MANAGEMENT sign over the front door, but that is like the restaurant in town that used to be my favorite but no longer serves quality and wishes it could get its customers back without having to change the way business is done. American awareness of American hypocrisy seems indirectly proportional to the distance from our borders when it comes to unlawful detention and human rights abuses. We'll just rollout Obama and his version of flack and do damage control again. Do you think Muslims are buying it? I think many are, let's pat ourselves on the back.

If we are going to keep grading Obama on the curve then we should include other Presidents. President Obama just looks like he is getting an A because some are grading him on the Bush curve where an F is a C, and a C is an A. Now what about another President? Why not include others like FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, and LBJ? When I think of what I want to hear resoundingly from a President I think of this phrase, although there are many others, this seems apt.

"So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance."

That is language to turn around our approach to our Terror War. I dare President Obama to use that kind of language and base our foreign policy on Peace. I won't praise less.

[bigtree]

18. it's not about grading on a curve at all

It's acknowledging the change and, hopefully, encouraging the administration to build on the sentiments. After all, diplomacy normally begins with a shift toward conciliatory language.

It's not a small thing that the last administration NEVER moderated their rhetoric conflating each and everything they could highlight as part and parcel of their 'terror war'. A great deal of their rhetoric and response just played right into the aims of the fugitive terror suspects.

It makes sense to expect more than just a change in rhetoric, but if we are to be honest in our criticism, it should be noted that this administration is taking a much improved posture (which includes entreaties to peace) than the warmongering WH we were just relieved of a year ago.

[Mithreal]

19. Our warmongers are better than their warmongers, that's for sure.

I really agree with much of your sentiment.

[grantcart]

20. Adults now control the administration

[SandWalker1984]

21. Authenticity of recent tape in doubt -- think CNN will report that?

Researchers in Switzerland have questioned the authenticity of the recent audio recording attributed to Osama Bin Laden.
A team from the Lausanne-based Dalle Molle Institute for Perceptual Artificial Intelligence, Idiap, said it was 95% certain the tape does not feature the voice of the al-Qaeda leader.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2526309.stm