Our own party proposes that people with pre-existing conditions GO WITHOUT INSURANCE 6 months...

[Bluebear]

...in order to be eligible to purchase sky-high priced insurance from their "high-risk" pool. Well. Ain't they just lookin' out for us?

Never did I think I would have to parse every paragraph of Democratic-written legislation to see how suffering people are being sold down the river. Disgraceful.

From the Senate bill:

======

Title I, Subtitle B, Section 1101 - Immediate Actions to Preserve and Expand Coverage

Subtitle B—Immediate Actions to Preserve and Expand Coverage

SEC. 1101. IMMEDIATE ACCESS TO INSURANCE FOR UNINSURED INDIVIDUALS WITH A PREEXISTING CONDITION.

(a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 90 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall establish a temporary high risk health insurance pool program to provide health insurance coverage for eligible individuals during the period beginning on the date on which such program is established and ending on January 1, 2014.

<- snip ->

(d) ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL.— An individual shall be deemed to be an eligible individual for purposes of this section if such individual—


(1) is a citizen or national of the United States or is lawfully present in the United States (as determined in accordance with section 1411);

(2) has not been covered under creditable coverage (as defined in section 2701(c)(1) of the Public Health Service Act as in effect on the date of enactment of this Act) during the 6-month period prior to the date on which such individual is applying for coverage through the high risk pool; and

(3) has a pre-existing condition, as determined in a manner consistent with guidance issued by the Secretary.

Full brief at:

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8040.pdf

(KAISER Foundation, natch.)

[Bluebear]

1. unrec unrec unrec lol.

[jgraz]

11. rec rec rec

:D

[Bluebear]

15. :)

[Pirate Smile]

2. Why would you prefer nothing to something which isn't perfect but will help?

I don't get it.

The other option is nothing. But you are doing your best to kill the bill.

[Bluebear]

5. 6 months IS nothing for people with pre-existing conditions. They could be dead by then.

Obama campaigned on relief from pre-existing condition exclusions FOR ALL.

[Hamlette]

6. why isn't 6 months better than never?????

[Bluebear]

7. What's wrong with immediate coverage, as Obama campaigned on?

Do you know what would happen to people going 6 months without their prescriptions or doctor's visits?

[Hamlette]

9. There is NOTHING wrong with immediate coverage, we just can't get it passed in the Senate

so you want to throw out the whole thing?

[Bluebear]

10. 6 months without cancer or HIV drugs, for instance, is not an option. Senate be damned.

[jgraz]

13. Try brain cancer with a 6 month waiting period

My friend waited three months for Medicare to kick in before he sought treatment. Now he's got about 6 months left.

[donheld]

64. So sad. I wish him well.

[Hamlette]

58. well, this is your lucky day!!!!! There is no 6 months waiting period, now there is a lifetime

waiting period.


YAY!!!!!!!!

Progressives win another one!!!!!!!

And another 44,000 die each year for another generation.

Because you didn't want a stinking 6 month waiting period.

Who's greedy now?

[jgraz]

65. Do yourself a favor. Google "false choice" before you post again.

:eyes:

[Hamlette]

68. why?

you think that is a clever way to say you think I"m wrong?

[jgraz]

69. Because when you type things into Google, it tells you stuff you might need to know.

Here, let me help you with that: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=false+choice

[Bluebear]

71. !

[Hamlette]

80. I remember when we discussed thing on DU, all of us being on the same side and all,

now it seems a forum to insult people.

My point, which was that it is better to have a 6 month waiting period than no HCR at all with a lifetime waiting period, was not so terrible that you had to insult me.

So I'm forced to conclude that posts that do not trash Obama and/or the democratic party, regardless of the point they make, will be treated with juvenile ridicule.

So, let me try this: Isn't a 6 month waiting period better than what we have now? And let me add Obama = Hitler.

[liberation]

90. The reason why people don't like shit sandwiches is not the choice of bread...

... but the filling.


LOL. Nice try though... you approach to debate rpeating the same argument over and over again would make either Goebbels proud, or Einstein cringe.

[geardaddy]

111. That and when they have 1000 Island dressing on them.

;)

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jgraz]

96. Democrats consider dropping insurance ban on pre-existing conditions

http://rawstory.com/2010/01/democrats-dropping-ban-preexisting-conditions

Raise your hand if you saw this coming. :eyes:

[bvar22]

119. Well Done!!!

:patriot:

[rucky]

120. +1

Nobody says you have to smile when you get screwed.

[Toasterlad]

93. I Know! It is SO Greedy To Not Want to Wait 6 Months For Health Care While You're Fucking DYING!

Ungrateful assholes! So what if this isn't an improvement for them? It's an improvement for SOME people! And as long as we can say that Obama helped SOME people, it doesn't matter how many people DIE. Because at the end of the day, nothing really matters as long as no one is saying anything bad about Obama or the Democratic Party. Because they're the good guys. And you can tell they're the good guys by their willingness to make it mandatory for people to pay for private insurance and to refuse to allow people to purchase drugs from other countries who pay 1/10 of what Americans pay.

!!!!LEAVE OBAMA ALONE!!!!1!!!

[SergeStorms]

109. +367

I like odd numbers. ;)

[shadowknows69]

116. +1

[bowens43]

114. Spoken like a true corparate schill.........

[Mass]

20. Did they even try? This one is so shocking that it is amazing.

This is a temporary measure because they decided not to get rid of preexisting conditions exclusions for 4 years and they still ask people who ARE SICK to wait 6 months. Really?

[sandnsea]

28. And if people drop their current coverage

because this program is open to everyone who is sick, then quite quickly this program becomes unaffordable and the HHS has the ability to go to a waiting list system. That means a backlog of uninsured people again, which is what we're supposed to be trying to fix. This program is intended to help sick people as quickly as possible and the ones who haven't had insurance in 6 months are definitely the ones who need to be at the front of the pack. In other words, if the program were implemented tomorrow, then everybody who hasn't had insurance since June 25, 2008 is automatically eligible. You can't drop your insurance tomorrow and go down and get in front of someone who hasn't seen a doctor in years. That seems fair to me.

[donco6]

31. And, you can't lose your job and insurance today and -

and think you can get insured tomorrow. No, you have to WAIT 6 months. And anything that happens in that 6 mos becomes a big fight to cover.

[sandnsea]

37. COBRA subsidy?

I don't think they're ending that program. And again, if you haven't been able to go to a doctor in years, the temporary insurance pool is for you. The temporary programs aren't intended to cover everybody.

[laughingliberal]

42. And, with the Ensign amendment, trust me. A lot of people will lose their jobs as soon as they get

a diagnosis the insurance company doesn't like. I can't understand why anyone who intends to continue working for a living would sit still for that amendment sitting in there. But not a peep out of anyone about taking it out. Thank W for wiping out your right to keep your PHI private. Thank the current president for not reversing that. Thank the Senate for seizing on it to screw us.

[laughingliberal]

44. If they tried to do anything besides bail out a failing industry, I haven't seen it. nt

[Hamlette]

59. SHOCKING???????????

I'll tell you shocking. It's progressives who insist on the public option and throw away a 6 months waiting period in exchange for a lifetime waiting period for 30 million americans.

[closeupready]

89. Why would they? That would be hard work. And Republicans would get mad.

n/t

[donco6]

30. 6 months with my lymphoma would have been a DEATH SENTENCE.

And it was cured with appropriate, timely treatment.

What a piece of shit bill.

[sandnsea]

38. And the people with lymphoma and no coverage now?

It's always me me me around here. All anybody wants is something to cover their situation right now.

[donco6]

51. That's kinda the point. This bill would do nothing for them.

Wait 6 months? They'll all be dead. I guess it saves the insurance co some money. Yay!

[sandnsea]

53. Years is longer than 6 months. Voila. They're covered. n/t

[donco6]

56. With a shroud. n/t

[unapatriciated]

79. It isn't always me, me, me.

In most cases it is, this is what I have experienced and do not wish it on anyone else.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7556124&mesg_id=7560066

We just want you to know we have seen this type of legislation before and what happens when you allow the Insurance Industry input in writing the laws that are supposed to protect the insured.
I could find another job maybe even work to own a home again but no nothing I did would give my son back his health. The waiting game is something the sick do not have time for and the Insurance Corporations make bank on that.

[TheEuclideanOne]

102. I am sure that there are diseases where 1 month would be a death sentence

If there were a one month waiting period, based on your logic, that would be completely unnacceptable. Remember, 6 months is a subset of forever.

[Hannah Bell]

94. why? why? why? the purpose of 6 mo waiting period is obvious on its face, to

anyone with a functioning brain stem.

[Better Believe It]

97. You can't get shit passed in this Senate! Let me correct that. You can pass shit.

[Zoeisright]

100. BS. The Democrats could do something if they had fucking spines.

Pass Medicare for All with reconciliation. It's that simple. But they don't have the guts.

[bobbolink]

67. You must be VERY important.

There seem to be a lot of people paid to shut you up.

I think I'm scared of you.

:hi:

[Bluebear]

107. I know huh? I am nobody, hear me roar!

When inconvenient truths are made known, the paid shills really come out of the woodwork, yes?

[Recursion]

105. It's immediate for 99% of them

Once the pool is up, people who have been uninsured for the past 6 months can get in it immediately.

[Mass]

12. It is, but still very disgraceful. Why cant you admit this.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Smashcut]

63. He should've taken a stronger, more public lead in shaping this legislation

instead of cutting back-room deals and leaving the Congress to its own vote-bartering devices.

I'm not saying he's 100% responsible for this fuckup, but get real. He bears a lot of the responsibility. And all your BS talk of "purity" won't change the fact that this bill is disgraceful. It really ISN'T "better than nothing" in a lot of ways.

[jgraz]

17. This policy FOREVER is NOT better than nothing now and real reform later.

The goal of this bill is to prevent real HCR from ever being passed. If they succeed, it will certainly be far worse than if they had done nothing.

[Mass]

18. This is not forever. This is until 2014. This said, still disgraceful, I agree,

[GinaMaria]

76. This bill paves the way to the destruction of Medicare

there is no fixing it later. There's only making it worse later.

[EFerrari]

41. Because for some of us, it will be never?

[fascisthunter]

88. you have got to be kidding...

you find something that small to support this legislation and think people are dumb enough to swallow it? This shit Bill should never be considered ANY good because of what this Bill will do to ALL Americans.

[tblue]

23. Almost sounds like they're culling the herd, dudn't it?

A lot can happen in 6 months with an illness or injury. Where's the moral courage to say "No Effing Way!!!"???

[DKRC]

70. They've been culling the herd

to the tune of 45,000 of us a year without batting an eye. Bonuses paid, stocks soaring, that's what it's all about m'dear ~ NOT providing health CARE to the people. Just a shell game of selling a worthless product to a desperate populace.
There are millions in prison with more ethics than these people possess.

:banghead:

[Faryn Balyncd]

50. dupe

(the post was a reply to a different poster)

[Smashcut]

62. Sadly, I think that's the point

for the insurance companies, that is. :puke:

[laughingliberal]

39. Because it does not help

and I'm weary of explaining why it does not help. It would serve the proponents right to just let the damned thing pass and let them see where we are in 10 years. And not just where we are with health care but where we are with no working or middle class left and insurance premiums just as high as they ever were, Medicare privatized and turned over to them and the whole rest of the poisonous rot in the bill.

[Faryn Balyncd]

52. Because mandating a Private-Insurance-Only system NOW kills REAL reform FOREVER.

The problem with the current bill is NOT that is needs improvement, or that it isn't perfect. The problem is that the current bill goes in the WRONG DIRECTION. And it props up a flawed system with a permanent mandate. And sets in concrete a FAULTY FOUNDATION which will be MORE DIFFICULT, if not impossible to fix.

[FiveGoodMen]

103. Exactly.

And that's just why it's being pushed.

I feel sorry for the many posters here who need real reform yesterday, but they are naive to think that anyone in DC is working on real reform of any kind.

We just get played, again and again and again.

[bowens43]

113. yes , I would prefer nothing

to this sham. This bill helps no one but the insurance companies.

[bvar22]

118. Because the "something" is merely a small crumb...

...being offered to you FOR DISTRACTION while the treasury doors are opened to the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.

Don't become fixated on the shiny object.

Examine the foundation before buying the shack.

The Foundation:
Mandated Purchase of For Profit Health Insurance + NO Public Option + Trillion Dollars dircetly TO the Health Insurance Cartel.
This IS a massive transfer of Public Money to the "Private" sector.

Yes.
Some people WILL be helped, but at a horrible, HORRIBLE cost.

AND

It WILL produce a blood bath in 2010 and 2012 which WILL result in the de-regulation of ANY and ALL token "regulation" on the Industry BEFORE they even take effect.
There will be NO "fixing it later".

This IS a "Republican" Health Care Plan" without the Republican Party taking ANY Political Risk at all.
ALL The Republicans have to do is sit back and say, "Yep. We opposed it" as Premiums continue to INCREASE, and those MILLIONS who are forced to BUY Insurance they can't afford to use begin to complain.

[sandnsea]

3. This has been explained to you every time you've posted it

Do you just forget?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PSPS]

14. You contradicted yourself on your way to the pizza

The idea is to have a single-payer plan. That way, there are no vulgar profits and dividends to pay skim of the pool of money intended to provide care. Also, if everyone were covered in a national plan administered by Medicare, the overall cost to citizens would actually go down:

1. Monthly premiums to private insurance companies are eliminated

2. Taxes go up to fund the coverage.

The money saved by #1 is greater than the cost in #2, hence it saves money.

And with a single risk pool (the entire population,) the pool-based premium would be less (in many cases, far less) than private insurance premiums are today even with the cherry picking the private insurance companies get away with.

[Bluebear]

16. Thank you. Will you be my Senator? :)

[tblue]

24. I'm so glad we had this time together.

Buh-bye! :hi:

[tblue]

25. Educate yourself.

[QC]

19. Look! Over here! Quick!

[Bluebear]

21. Swoon! THUD!!1

[laughingliberal]

47. yep nt

[muffin1]

98. WOO-HOO!!!

I am so thrilled, I don't need health care reform now!!11!!
And I'm pretty sure my abnormal cervical cells are healed!!1!


Honestly, I am so angry at Obama and the lilly-livered "dems" I could fucking scream. We should have had single-payer, or Medicare for all. But no, they had to run around kissing repuke ass for the last year, and ended up with this steaming pile of shit.



:evilfrown:

[BP2]

22. Who's dictating the six month wait? The Senate or Insurance Lobbies? If it's the Insurance Lobbies,

that's the problem.

[QC]

26. Is there really any difference between the two anymore?

Lately it seems that the Senate *is* the insurance lobby.

[BP2]

29. Good to see there's others here who see that too. Hope of HCR fades as Big Insurance stock drops in

the stock market.

No correlation there at all, just happenstance.

[laughingliberal]

45. +1 nt

[donco6]

32. Who do you think wrote the bill?

It's a way for them to eliminate the sickest, most expensive people before their non-denial clause kicks in.

[Bluebear]

34. Exactamunde.

Cynical at best, criminal at worst.

[donco6]

35. I don't think I've reached my full cynical potential yet.

Everytime I think I'm there, something extra-special shitty happens. Like seeing this part of the bill.

[undeterred]

27. Our party is just as full of shit as the other party

if that's what they want. Frankly, I'd rather "die quickly" than have false hope.

[BP2]

33. I'd also rather not have to sell our souls to get HCR that still doesn't cover millions of people.

[undeterred]

40. I have had no health insurance for over a year

and right now I just don't care about what happens to this bill. I don't really want to pay through the nose to an insurance company.

[Danger Mouse]

36. I really don't see a way to justify this, or what the party is doing currently.

Frankly, I find it incredibly disillusioning and discouraging.
I can understand pragmatism, but it feels like they're giving up without a fight. That just blows my mind.

[depakid]

48. The electorate ain't buying it- that's for sure

[JVS]

43. This HCR is a sick farce

[laughingliberal]

46. A very expensive sick farce. nt

[Bonobo]

49. Americans: Your country is not rooting for you anymore. Take the hint! nt

[anonymous171]

54. Instead of making people vote for us, this bill is likely to do the opposite.

Mission Accomplished! :sarcasm:

[glitch]

55. "Ain't they just lookin' out for us?" this thread points to the answer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7556547

[GinaMaria]

77. This bill is a way to eliminate single payer or a PO

Medicare is next then SS. We are screwed.

[northzax]

110. I'm confused

Happens all the time, I'm afraid. But can you explain how you can eliminate something that doesn't exist? A public option (oh wait, a government sponsored high-risk pool IS a form of public option, isn't it?) or single-payer don't exist, so they can't be eliminated. But maybe you can explain better?

[GinaMaria]

121. Yeah. I could have done a better job on the post

Sorry about that.

I seem to have forgoten a word. The Bill eliminates the possibility of a single payer or PO. This bill is a stepping stone to ending Medicare (both a single payer and a PO). Medicare expansion is seen as a likely way to obtain both or either SP or OP. This bill is a stepping stone to elminate the one functioning SP PO we have in this country.

I hope that makes more sense. I've been battling a migraine for a couple days now, so if I'm not making sense, we should just drop it.

Have a better one :-)

[ProgressIn2008]

57. Rec for you, Bluebear. Then again, our overlords have excellent healthcare, so what do they care? nt

[leftstreet]

61. K&R

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vidar]

72. K&R.

[burning rain]

73. There should probably be a tax credit for buying lottery tickets....

so people would have more of a shot at being able to afford high-risk pool insurance.

[blueworld]

74. The other irony is what is considered a pre-existing condition

When my husband's employer signed-up for Anthem's "el-cheapo-insurance-is-better-than none plan"(and I don't blame the employer since it was an automotive supply company in desperate straights) my freakin' thyroid condition was considered "pre-existing" & I had to wait a year to get coverage for meds. Fortunately for me they're about 7 clams a month.

They knew it was pre-existing because Anthem had already been paying for my meds for the previous 3 years through the same employer, different "plan".

Big insurance could beat that "pre-existing" label to death in order to get more people in the high-risk pool. Think about chronic, non life-threatening conditions that can be milked for moolah. I'm guessing freakin' acne could count.

And this is ANOTHER perfect example of how Congress CANNOT cover every loophole these sleaze buckets will come up with & should therefore simply offer a public option. Excuse me, my tongue is bluer than ever & I need a cuppa.

[Little Star]

75. *

[unapatriciated]

82. This statement hits the nail on the head..

"Big insurance could beat that "pre-existing" label to death in order to get more people in the high-risk pool."

California allowed the Insurance Industry input on HCR laws in the early 90's and found out the hard way how that doesn't work. They have more money and can keep you in court forever.
Or in my case keep you in the circle of death better known as denials and reviews.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7556124&mesg_id=7560066

[liberal_at_heart]

83. Exactly, +1

[berni_mccoy]

78. This is misleading. It says they can't join the Hi-risk pool if they have been covered by a plan

in the last 6 months. If they were covered by one of the plans as defined by 2701(c)(1), they are eligible for COBRA to cover the gap.

[liberal_at_heart]

81. The president is getting all kinds of advice since the Mass loss

Some Democrats in Congress want him to drop healtchare and concentrate on jobs. Others are so afraid of the loss they want him to fight for the healthcare bill. Fight? Fight for what? A bailout for insurance companies? Are we really going to fight for something that benefits the insurance companies instead of benefiting the people just so the democrats can have a win to brag about in the next election? We need jobs. We need healthcare that benefits the people, not the insurance companies. They are so out of touch with the people. If they don't start representing the people instead of the insurance companies, they will find out just how out of touch with the people they are during the 2010 elections.

[robinlynne]

84. It looks like this means it is specifically for people who can not get insurance

otherwise. ?

[icee]

85. I'm not reading this the way you are. I think it says you simply

can only enter the high risk pool if have not had insurance prior the six months of the application thereto--not that you have to wait six months to obtain it. In other words, suppose you had insurance four months ago. You don't satisfy the requirement of six months. Therefor any insurance carried has to take you on a continuaion of coverage basis, which doesn't disclude for preexisting conditions. That's the way I read it. But I am not certain.

[ourbluenation]

91. that's how I read it too. but the train has left the DU station I'm afraid. n/t

[icee]

92. Ha Ha Yeah, long ago....

[Bluebear]

108. Ha Ha, you signed up last month? When was "long ago"?

[blueworld]

101. I don't understand why you think your interpretation is different

If you can't afford the COBRA coverage that may be available to you at a ridiculously high premium because of a pre-existing condition - which also means you CAN'T get coverage anywhere else - you have to wait 6 months to get into the high-risk pool.

This reform doesn't insist that another insurance company has to take on your pre-existing condition, it simply insists that you can't be denied coverage EITHER by your own COBRA or the high risk pool.

[icee]

112. I'll study it more when I feel better..............

[Vinca]

86. I'm not so much concerned about the wait time as I am what it will cost.

If the premium is comparable to premiums that might be offered by big insurance, most of us won't be able to afford it anyway. The day health "care" reform became health "insurance" reform, the needs of the people took a back seat.

[Swede]

87. It's going to cover someone who was not already covered

by another policy for six months prior is the way I read it.

[Goldstein1984]

99. All prostitutes to the insurance industry are the same...

Regardless of party.

I'm tired of scraps. Either politicians go for meaningful reform, or I'll be doing my part to take them down--regardless of party.

Rec. And I wish I had a thousand more to give to make up for the loss of the Democratic Party to "centrists."

[William769]

104. YES WE CAN!

Screw the American people worse than the Repukes did! Thats the hope that we were able to change.

P.S. The hits just keep on coming, being HIV positive the only thing I have left to look forward to is HIV Camps and what this past year has taught me is they are right around the corner. What ever your spiritual beliefs, may he/she have mercy on your soul.

[RoccoR5955]

106. My doc once told me that I had 6 months to live, until I told him that I couldn't pay him...

in six months.
So he asked me how long it would take to pay him. I told him 30 years. So he gave me 30 years to live!
:sarcasm:

[DailyGrind51]

115. So, just let the tumor grow for another six months?

So that it becomes even more expensive to treat?

[Bluebear]

117. Or maybe you croak and they don't end up paying anything. But here's a towel to bite on for the pain