I'm beginning to wonder if I'm in the right forum.

[Atticus]

I haven't counted and don't want to necessarily emphasize numbers, but it seems like a LOT of people posting here are just pretty much OK with the Citizens United decision by the SCOTUS. I get the impression that quite a few think that it is "no big deal" or that corporations are simply another type of "group" to which people may choose to belong.

I think that it ranks with Bush v. Gore as one of the most blatant and outrageous and "unAmerican" decisions of the Court since Plessy v. Ferguson. I think that if it remains the unencumbered and unchanged law of the land, democracy is dead---period.

I know that no one has been killed---yet---because of this decision. The TV schedules are unaffected; the price of beer hasn't gone up; and, the countdown to the Super Bowl continues as scheduled.

But, if this decision stands as is, Exxon, Goldman-Sachs and Wal-Mart own our asses.

Anyone else upset? Pissed?

[bigwillq]

1. They already own our as*es.

But yes, I am very angry.

[Catshrink]

2. I'm with you.

Unless Congress acts, if it can, we're toast. Totally pwned.

[ibegurpard]

3. I'm not seeing much support of it

closest I've seen is a cynical "well, isn't that the way it already is?"

[highplainsdem]

4. People here are outraged by it. Look back page after page in this forum,

and you'll see that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. A lot of people do not understand the mild face of fascism

don't worry the austerity plan will wake some up...

But they do not understand that this is the worst decision since Plessy... or Dredd.

[CountAllVotes]

6. you are right

our gods and leaders are now Exxon, Goldman-Sacs et al. and Wal-Mart.

This is no fun that is for certain.

How do we rid our Nation of this horrid disease that has infiltrated each and every life in the United States? How do we impeach Exxon and Goldman-Sachs?

:puke: (seems to be the night for it!). :mad:

:kick:

[TexasObserver]

7. Yes, it is much, much bigger than most seem to realize.

There's a reason the GOP has battled for no spending limits for decades. If you have unlimited funds you want a no-limit game.

[undeterred]

8. I guess we're reading different posts

because I haven't seen anyone who is ok with it.

[Atticus]

24. No one has actually said it is a "good thing", but several have argued that it is a legally sound

decision and, in general, was what anyone with a knowledge of the Constitution, history, etc. should have expected.

Some of the responses to it have been "over the top" and inaccurate and some posters point to these as representative of the "uninformed" over-reaction to this rather "ho-hum" news item.

And, frankly, that makes me want to puke.

[Terra Alta]

9. I am mad as hell.

Our politicians will now -- literally -- be bought and paid for. It's a disgrace that will eventually lead to the downfall of our country if something isn't done about it.

[valerief]

10. We are the Soviet Union my grammar school teachers warned us about. nt

[texastoast]

11. I'm furious, but with this SCOTUS whore majority, we can expect more of this

I've already joined up with a group who is going to work to get the Constitutional amendment flurry going to define "a person" as an entity with DNA.

[sandnsea]

12. The brainwashing is really entrenched

I would bet 90% of the country has never thought for one second that there's any other way for a corporation to be except as a legal entity like a person. If you never consider the alternative, then of course Citizens United makes sense.

We really really really have to put an education campaign together. Really.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

13. It's devastating

I haven't read of anyone on DU supporting it or expressing anything but outrage.

[Odin2005]

14. This decision = FASCISM as far as I'm concerned.

The Fascist 5 need to be impeached yesterday.

[Marr]

15. I disagree-- I've seen a lot of outrage about the decision here.

I haven't seen the same outrage amongst the general population, however. I had dinner a few nights ago with seven old friends, two of which are lawyers. One had no strong opinion, the other wasn't aware of the details. The other five hadn't heard about this decision at all.

I think we've got a very uninformed, very complacent public.

[patrice]

16. I'm sad.

[liberal N proud]

17. DU isn't what it used to be

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. ??? The outrage is 99%, defenses maybe 1%

[blondeatlast]

38. That's how I read it, and the defenses are mainly from law geeks

arguing the legal validity; I don't think they are pleased with the decision.

[John Q. Citizen]

74. There is no more legal validity to corporate person-hood than there is to slavery. That stops

no one from attempting to make those arguments, though.

[Maru Kitteh]

19. I think it's WORSE than the Bush/Gore decision, and I thought I'd never see a worse decision

than that one.

[Terra Alta]

30. this decision is a direct result of

the Bush/Gore decision.

Had Gore been allowed to serve the term he was elected to, he would have most likely won re-election in 2004(after replacing Lieberman with an actual Dem) and Alito and Roberts would not be on the USSC to screw with the little people

[Maru Kitteh]

70. agreed, but as individual decisions, this one was worse. far worse.

[notesdev]

20. It's not a big deal because

Goldman Sachs etc. ALREADY own your asses and have for quite some time. You think this stuff just happened over the past couple of years? The latest bubble alone was over a decade in the making with the full support of both parties. Obama got nearly a million dollars from Goldman alone, and that happened before this case was ever on the docket.

Goldman handed out 1% of our entire national GDP in bonuses this year. That happened without anything that the SCOTUS did in this case.

[Atticus]

27. So, what are you saying? Are you another who thinks I'm a fool for being concerned?

Lately, I've had just about all the tired, all-knowing cynicism I need, thanks.

[notesdev]

35. No, I don't think you a fool

On the contrary, I welcome your concern.

I think you should investigate more closely, however, as if you do you will see that near-total corporate dominance over our government is not new in the slightest.

Eisenhower warned us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdrGKwkmxAU


So did JFK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlghYpDx0f4


We didn't heed either.

[muriel_volestrangler]

78. You're out by a factor of 10

In total, Goldman's salaries, bonuses, benefits and other compensation costs for its 32,500 employees amounted to $16.2bn in 2009 - or $498,000 per worker.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/129fc010-06f5-11df-b058-00144feabdc0.html

2008 US GDP: $14.8 trillion - http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=us+gdp

So that's about 0.1% of GDP, not 1% (and that's including the base salaries). Yes, it's still a huge amount, but if you're going to give a figure, it ought to be the right magnitude.

[Kaleva]

21. A lot? It seems that most of DU is outraged by the decision.

[Martin Eden]

This frog knows the water just got hotter

Where do I (we) jump?

[The Gunslinger]

22. Dont forget to list the foreign government corporations

who now control our government. I'm sure the american people are their primary interest. This country is being turned into a cheap labor pool for the globalists.

[cascadiance]

59. I wonder how many of these fat cats are buying up land in the Caymans now!

Where they can still be bosses of multinational corporations, and NOW have legal right to affect their business and our nations' business, even if they leave the country. So they can still keep fattening themselves on our economy, and not even pay taxes to us any more.

[Fumesucker]

23. What on earth would lead you to believe that Exxon, Goldman-Sachs and Wal-Mart don't own our asses

Right now?

That's just crazy talk..

[groundloop]

25. I'm outraged, yet don't really see any way around this decision

I may be wrong, but it seems that the only way to override this decision is with a constitutional amendmant - and I question whether that will ever happen because the neo-cons will fight it tooth and nail.

[cascadiance]

60. A constitutional amendment would solve it for sure, but might there be other easier ways?...

We NEED to think about the whole landscape of ideas here. There may be some ways to fight this that don't require 2/3rds of the congress and a huge number of state legislatures to pass it. That is what the corporatist set is counting on. That we'll see this as the ONLY solution and feel that it will look too daunting for us to try.

We should be exploring that, but there are other ways of looking at this case to perhaps not require so much effort that might seem impossible at this point.

And all of those "legal expert" DLCers that keep trying to dismiss the brainstorming for these other solutions can go jump in the lake as far as I'm concerned. Yes, at some point many of these won't be practical or not work either, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't think about them and shouldn't try.

For example, I still think that with this decision, the Felonious Five of the Supreme Court implicitly gave the right for court clerks to "override" their decisions and comments in cases, since the case decision in this case relied on that very act back in the 1800's as the basis for claiming corporations have rights of persons.

We should look at ways of exploiting this and using this to confront them in other ways on other cases, or perhaps even on this case. We should look at how court clerks are hired, and see if we can get a "friendly" one working on this court in some way, if the one working there now isn't "friendly". Might be a way to trump this 5-4 majority in key cases.

[omega minimo]

26. so what's yer point?

stolen elections :boring:
alito :boring:
roberts :boring:
impeachment :boring:
SCOTUS hijack :boring:
Corporate Fascism :boring:
:boring:

[Atticus]

32. I have bitched, moaned, kicked, screamed and protested about each and every crime and outrage

listed.

My party didn't and, apparently, "ain't 'bout to start nothin' new!"

Having a bad, bummer, downer of a day. Sorry. Hope to be better tomorrow.

May speak with my friend, Johnny Walker.

[omega minimo]

37. Ain't It Strange?

:toast: whitiver getsya through the night. Truly bizarre times.

Maybe settle in with one of the dystopian novels that predicted this decades ago.

[AlinPA]

28. I've had several posts about it. Most here seem to be angry about it, but IMO

we don't realize how bad it will be. Last year $5B was spent on all elections in the US. (I got this number from a Sunday "News" program). This fall I could see that number tripled just for republican house seats. Senate could be in the 10's of billions. I have no data to back up these numbers, but when you consider what corporations will get in return (elimination of minimum wage, elimination of EPA and all environmental regulations, outlawing of unions) it is not that much money. Yes, Democrats might get a few dollars, but those issues are republican and corporation favorites.

[CoffeeCat]

29. I've seen nothing but contempt for this SCOTUS decision...

...but i haven't read every single word of DU.

I can't fathom how anyone could be cheerleading the process of our democracy morphing into a Fascist state.

I couldn't believe it when I turned on Limbaugh and Beck. I thought--for sure--this would be the issue
that would unite us all. After all, these twerps rant on and on about smaller government and less
governmental influence--as well as "freedom" and "liberty".

The Limbots and Beck fanatics think this is a great decision--because Rush and Glen told them it is. These idiots
can't think for themselves. If the government came for their guns, they'd sell out their ideals on that
issue too--as long as Rush and Glen had an answer for them.

How in the world people can be so bamboozled is beyond me. Bribery is now protected speech. Do these idiots not
realize that Fascists who hate liberty and freedom--are using these Limbots and Becksheep to destroy our democracy?

It's just NUTS how gullible many people are.

[Kalun D]

36. Shills

""I can't fathom how anyone could be cheerleading the process of our democracy morphing into a Fascist state.""

If there is they're most likely shills for the DLC.

[onehsaquestion]

31. Who do you see that's okay with it?

Having watched the forum since the decision it's been universally negative and any attempt to discuss the actual opinion is met with disdain, "welcome to DU", and "FU freeper". However, blowing a gasket over it, especially if you are doing that instead of reading the actual opinion, doesn't do any good.

Going BSC over stuff is why I left political forums and deleted by usernames (here and elsewhere) last May.

[leftstreet]

33. UnKick & UnRec wtf are you talking about?

This place has been on meltdown since the decision.

:eyes:

[Atticus]

39. Just a couple of threads featuring apologists for and justifiers of the decision:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

As I said, no one actually says its a good thing, but they are certainly "critical of its critics" and I found that surprising for DU.

[leftstreet]

42. Critical thinking is what I look for when I come to DU

:shrug:

[Atticus]

45. Agreed. I just thought this was an aberration of ordinary spirited debate.

Not meant to be whining. My feelings aren't hurt. Just, I guess, disappointed that some think this is less than really, really BAD.

As I said elsewhere in this , thread, having a bummer of a day.

Thanks for your response.

[struggle4progress]

52. Linkies ain't workies

[Kalun D]

34. Coffin Nails

It's just another nail in the coffin of lady liberty.

In the past few decades it's mostly been behind the scenes, covert. Now it's in your face because that's the only way they can further corrode our liberties. All the secret stuff has been done, now for the final steps in the plan. The NAU and then the NWO.

It's getting very close to the point of the necessity of another revolution, it's about the only option left. It's already happening in Greece, the workers are revolting because the disparity and oppression has gone too far.

""I know that no one has been killed---yet---because of this decision.""

But the same group of people that pushed for this decision are killing people right now in foreign lands, for cheap oil and defense industry profits. They just made the decision they are going to continue to indefinitely detain prisoners of war, mere suspects. Without charges, trial, or conviction.

--------------------------------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

"If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." -- Winston Churchill

[havocmom]

40. Been puking about it myself

Another part of post around here scares the crap outta me. I have seen posts suggesting that we just incorporate this and that and everything will be fine. :wtf:

Do these Polly Annas really think a few liberals forming a corporation so they can take advantage of the SCOTUS ruling are gonna be on the same level as the HUGE, and oft times, multi-national, corporations? The naive notion that all ya gotta do is incorporate reminds me of all the working class and middle class people who vote R cause the GOP takes care of the rich. It just amazes that people can be so out of touch with reality.

Yeah, I am deeply disturbed by the SCOTUS ruling, and also by a lot of responses to it.

[unkachuck]

41. I too agree with your conclusion, Atticus

....the Citizens United decision was unforgivably horrible....it strikes at the heart of our democracy....

....it's hard to have faith in our democratic institutions when our democratic institutions attack our democracy....

....and yes, we might be on the wrong form....

[tkmorris]

43. I think it illustrates the sheer size of our Fifth Column here

You'd have to be nuts to think there isn't an organized and widespread effort to influence thought, especially of Democratic/Liberal websites and forums, on the internet. DU's success over the last decade has put it in a prominent position to attract such people.

You are in the right place Atticus. It's THEM that aren't.

[MadHound]

44. Disappointed and depressed is more like it

This shit storm has been coming for a long while, and it was no surprise when it hit. The hits have been coming so fast and hard over the past few years it's hard to get past the outrage fatigue at times.

[cali]

46. utter bullshit. there is not a LOT of support here for the SCOTUS

decision. That's simply not true and it makes your post a, well, I'm not allowed to use the common parlance that so aptly describes your garbage claim

I have come across two- that's right- two posts that even come close to supporting it.

And his kind of dissembling crap gets 26+ recs.

[Atticus]

65. Recommended reading:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7570936

[Better Believe It]

47. I am. K & R

[jotsy]

48. Demand en mass the immediate retirement of the three justices who voted in the affirmative on both

occasions, they are Scalia, Thomas, and Kennedy.

In 1811, Associate Justice Samuel Chase was impeached but acquitted. The current circumstances speak to the highest court in the land, who we expect to vigilantly guard against a lack of fairness, has bestowed upon the corporatocracy an exponentially enhanced voice with which to drown out or drone up the public voice. As this decision betrays the well being of the citizenry, they have failed to uphold principles laid out in our constitutional rights.

The entities that will benefit from this decision have already displayed a reckless disregard for the public.

I've no use for a supreme court who not only will not address justice, but decides to aid in its demise.

Vincent Bugliosi asked us in his book to press charges against the Bushco crew, through local DA's if necessary. It's not too late to listen, or embellish.

The day this announcement came out I went to the civil rights forum and asked about impeachment.

I'm plenty pissed. The American dream didn't just die, it was raped, maimed and pillaged and then left for dead. If our most learned legal scholars choose to serve the entities that brought that to bear, it constitutes aid and comfort to the enemy of we the people and is treasonous.

While Roberts had no part in the Bush v. Gore decision, as chief of this miscarriage of what is just, he too should step down, if for no other reason, embarrassment.

Kicked, but not to the curb, like these traitors should be.

[Nancy Ruth]

49. I am both furious and sick over it.

I feel that it's the end of any pretense of this being a democracy. Now everything goes to the highest bidder....period. I'm a senior citizen who has seen a lot, but this is the worst. Those who aren't terrified by this one need their heads examined.

[liberal_at_heart]

50. If I were you I wouldn't be surprised by what you see on here

This board is becoming increasingly conservative. It's not much of a liberal board anymore.

[donheld]

51. What more do I have to do to show my anger?

:nuke:

[DKRC]

53. Outraged & pissed off

is pretty much how I stay as I read the latest in a series of steps into Fascism.

:nuke:

[TomCADem]

54. ABSOLUTELY AGREE - This is a BS decision upsetting decades of laws

Think Fox News on steroids at election time as corporations can spend unlimited sums to impact elections. Worse, can you imagine local elections? The results will be tragic.

[Oilwellian]

55. I guess seething would be a good word for how I feel about this decision

I'd love to see a bill that makes politicians wear the logos of their contributors. What a visual that would be.

[Vidar]

56. K&R.

[merkins]

57. Gets hard when theres so much shit raining down on us

But yeah I'd put that decision right up there at the top of the list.

[Cal Carpenter]

58. All this does, imo, is make official something that's been happening

for a long time....

Same shit, different day, ya know?

[Lorien]

61. I've posted for ages about the need for election reform with barely any response here

on DU. It just proves to me once again that television is a massively effective propaganda tool. I don't watch it myself, but when I check in here I know exactly what it's telling everyone to be upset about; Tiger Woods, John Edwards, Haiti (which of course deserves attention), the MA elections, what some Lt. Governor said somewhere about poor people, Palin or Bachman or whoever the RW media darling of the day is...but the Big Issues like election reform, climate change, education, extending unemployment benefits and food stamps, what's going on in Iraq, etc. just gets a shrug on the way to grabbing hold of the new toy the media tells us to care about. Americans are very obedient. If anyone doubts this, then turn off the tube for two months then see how much your perceptions change.

[inna]

62. Funny, I haven't heard a single poster here express their support for the ruling.

Protest and disappointment seems to be unanimous, which I actually found very encouraging.

But this is just my experience, based on posts I happened to read in the last several days.

[inna]

63. double post deleted

[Jamastiene]

64. I'm certainly outraged.

Maybe your ignore list isn't tweaked just right like mine is. :P

I see more people outraged than not over this. SCOTUS just fucked us all kinds of up...again.

[Echo In Light]

66. The majority of just about anything usually tends to suck on toast

[grantcart]

67. It is a fucking big deal

The fact that they went so far actually will work to our benefit. Rather than a technical loop hole they are showing a very radical approach to corporations.

It also will undermine Roberts in the legal community. It is not considered good form to herald such a huge reversal on such a long held point with such a narrow majority.

[pleah]

68. Haven't been posting to much lately. Been busy trying to get something

done on ending corporate personhood and this horrendous decision.

[MadMaddie]

69. I am pissed!

You know many on DU knows what this decision means. We also knew that Roberts, Alito and Thomas were big fat liars who the weak kneed Dems didn't put up a fight to stop them.

[Canuckistanian]

71. This decision will "keep on giving" for years

You can look upon the SCOTUS decision day as the exact time of the the final American decline.

It's been a slice, and thanks for the memories of justice in the USA.

[glitch]

72. You're on the right forum but your ignore list may need feeding.

I feed mine regularly, it helps my blood pressure.

[Goldstein1984]

73. I'm not happy with the opinion. And for what it's worth,

this citizen doesn't acknowledge the citizen as legitimate. This is the same kind of 5-4 decision that gave us an illegitimate president in 2000.

Nothing is going to change in this country until the sheep grow fangs and abandon the flock to form a pack.

[femrap]

75. I f*cking hate

Corporations. I can't say that I was surprised by the decision since we have 5 robots of unknown origin on the bench.

Pissed? I passed pissed looooooooooooooooooooooooong ago.

However, I have reached Acceptance so to relief my state of mental and physical health.

I am so ashamed of America. Our culture sucks. Our government sucks. Our corporations suck. Our educational systems suck. Our food supply sucks. It pretty much all sucks.

I want to be French and be in an Union. But I've accepted that I'm not.

[scentopine]

76. Yes - seething and angry, a betrayal, we don't study history so we are

bound to repeat it. We are slowly but surely becoming slaves. Now that the government spies on us and infiltrates groups dedicated to civil protest, you won't see any protests. In the past we'd riot and burn down a few cities. I believe that was the right thing to do because the alternative was black and white drinking fountains. We are too afraid of the government to riot and shut down washington and wall street but that is what is required. Democrats are every bit as cowardly as republicans are stupid. Its the stupid leading the cowards.

I think there is a time and place for revolution and it is reaching that stage. People don't understand that once corporations get seated in the government you can never undo that - it would take an armed conflict. Once corporations start making laws to protect them from liability and as they continue to suck up more and more of the treasury and human resources here and in foreign countries - it will never be undone. 95% of us will become second class citizens.

This will not end peacefully. We may not see the end to this in our lifetimes, but history will prove me right. This cannot continue without a very bloody ending. Anytime you have a huge disparity between rich and poor, when wealth and power are concentrated - people eventually die in large numbers. That is not to say that violence will produce a positive outcome. It just means that violence perpetrated by either rich or poor will become "normal". There are no exceptions to this rule as long as there is a huge disparity between rich and poor, powerful and not powerful. Not one single exception in all of recorded history.

Like Bush and Cheney before them, Rahm Emanuel and Obama will not evade this fundamental law of human nature. Through their arrogance and deference to wealth and power they are following a well worn path to hell. Its like global warming - just because today the temperature is colder than usual doesn't mean that the planet isn't heating up. How hot does it need to get before people take action? These days - hotter than the sun.

[RedCloud]

77. I see it as the SC-5's second joke on the other branches. First was W.

[harun]

79. I think most here know the importance but feel are asses are owned already anyway.

[whatchamacallit]

80. What's one deep cut among a thousand?

I'm with ya, this is a game changer. People should be freaked.