Woman found dead 4 days after falling, said ambulance too expensive

[4dsc]

Source: Des Moines Register

A retired Des Moines woman who reportedly fell to the floor of her home last Friday and could not get up died on Tuesday.

A man who resides at the same address told police she refused an ambulance because she thought it would be too expensive.

Read more: http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100127/NEWS/100127005/1001/NEWS/Woman-found-dead-4-days-after-falling-said-ambulance-too-expensive

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How sad any American has to believe an ambulance is too expensive.

[mikelgb]

1. it is too expensive

[dotymed]

25. After insurance

my "ride" cost me $600.00. They had to drive back to their shop, they forgot nitro...what a ride.. I have since, driven myself during 2 heart attacks.

[No Elephants]

2. My son's friend died of expensive meds, complicated by unemployment

and a landlord who rightfully expected to receive rent. That cause of death may reach epidemic proportions soon.

On edit: R.I.P. Dave. You are missed.

[galileoreloaded]

92. Your son's friend died for nothing...as his sense of morality was obviously skewed.

I mean that in the kindest way possible. Fuck the system that allows this, because "regular folk" follow the rules. "Regular Folk" get trampled on and DIE, while the more equal animals the likes of Jamie Dimon literally piss on his memory through their abject perversion of the social and political structure.

I mean this kindly and cast no asparagus on you personally, but as a society, we MUST break this cycle before it breaks us. WE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT PLAY BY THE RULES.

[strategery blunder]

3. :(

I have health insurance, but I could see this happening to me anyway, because I have to worry about whether the ambulance would be COVERED or whether the claim would be DENIED. :(

American health "care" is so fucked up. x(

[LiberalArkie]

13. Same here

I live 40 miles for the hospital. I cut my hand with a saw. The paramedics came and bandaged it, called a helicopter and transported me to the site. I had no choice but to take the helicopter, BC/BS pays $1000 for transport. The Ambulance charged $695 for the 2 mile trip, The Helo charged $25,000 for the 30 air miles to the hospital..

I found out that the Paramedics/Ambulance co gets a cut of the helo ride..

[hobbit709]

24. When my wife Donna died last summer

The ambulance bill from the City of Austin was $1100+. It was NOT covered by her insurance-it was part of the $3000 deductible.

[emsimon33]

86. We are so lucky in Va Beach, VA, that we have a volunteer rescue squad

Much of the thanks for this goes to Dr. Jim Charlton who first had the vision and to the men and women who volunteer their expertise and time.

[Thothmes]

88. In Hampton VA we have tax funded ambulences

The ride is no direct cost to the citizen. The city will bill the insurance company. If they do not get anything out of the insurance company, that is the end of the issue. They do not bill citizens directly for ambulance services.

[hobbit709]

89. Used to be that way here

It's the city run EMS, but they decided rather than raise taxes(which they did anyway) they would just charge.
Everybody wants to fee you to death now.

[Donnachaidh]

4. in my area it's $600 for a 5 minute drive

And if your insurance doesn't cover it, be prepared for harrassing phone calls from the ambulance company.

[Tracer]

5. I can beat that one.

My insurance was charged $3000 for a 15 mile ambulance ride.

[Donnachaidh]

9. oh no shit!!!

three GRAND? Were they working on you, or just driving you there? Our six hundred taxi ride was a horror show -- AND they charged the SAME to give my kid a ride with me to the hospital. No treatment for him, just a ride. :grr:

[Tracer]

21. It was just a ride.

There was an EMT with me in case anything went wrong, but nothing did.

The only thing that I can think of was that they were going to airlift me from the first hospital to the second, but it was snowing pretty heavily and they couldn't fly. So I think they charged me for the airlift pilot/EMT who accompanied me.

[JackintheGreen]

19. $900 here, 8 years ago

I was in a motorcycle accident. I was a teacher at the time and thank god my school provided insurance to make up for the shitty pay. But the ambulance wasn't covered, and after a day in the hospital and 5 more at home the school started docking me for lost time. Obviously I wasn't making tons of money and it took me a couple of years to pay off just under a grand in debt.

And how the wholly effing hell do you not cover ambulances when most insurance covers emergencies? :wtf:

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. $1500 here. 20 miles, not covered by insurance. n/t

[Maine-ah]

52. our five minute drive cost $300.

at the time we were on state assistance (no longer, we now have HI, but it sucks)and it was paid for.

I wonder why an ambulance ride is so cheap in my area, but it seems it's at least twice that for other places.

[Donnachaidh]

55. we're north of Atlanta, the medical industrial complex heart in the South

Anything you need down here is expensive. I had a brace made for my wrist, which consisted of about a buck and a half of actual plastic. The bill was for $150.

[RaleighNCDUer]

57. Here the county offers amulance service for a pre-paid annual

fee - I think it's up to $65/yr (when I first signed on it was $50/yr). Pay the subscription and you can use the ambulance as many times as necessary for no charge.

I've paid something over $600 over the past 10 years, and used the service three times - once when I was hit with kidney stones and couldn't drive myself, once in a car accident, and once when they responded to what was (I guess) an anxiety attack - sweats, dizziness, short breath, but not a heart attack. That time they did not transport.

It's a hell of a deal - pay a small amount to support the service, get the service when you need it. Don't know why this isn't done everywhere.

Best of all, no screwing around with insurance.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

78. $1300 for a 3 mile ride in Tucson 3 years ago.

It's insane!

[Jefferson23]

6. Her tombstone could read direct from Harry Reid:

“We’re not on health care now.” As for the schedule to get it done, he said, “there is no rush.”

[Little Star]

12. Harry might as well have said....

Democrats want you to die and die quickly.

[JohnWxy]

47. Her tombstone should read: "I'm sure glad the Republicans kept the government out of my health care"

But the Corporate Lobbyist Party did their job. The insurance companies kept the profit margin (and 20% general & adminsitrative costs) in tact. Death by profit motive.

THank you Corporate Lobbyist Party. THank you Tea-baggers. May you all recieve the same fate. (Well, the Republicans in Congress won't. THEY have GREAT health care - through an exchange where they pick among dozens of providers - paid for BY US.)

[Common Sense Party]

7. The guy's story sounds fishy to me.

He could have called the cops, the paramedics, some neighbors, a pastor or priest...hell, the mailman could have helped him pick her up.

[Jefferson23]

8. Agree, the story has loose ends that don't make sense, at least not yet.

[proudohioan]

10. It sounds fishy to me, too.

That being said, health care IS way too expensive, for both the insured and uninsured alike. The state of this countries health care is appalling, to put it mildly.

[Lance_Boyle]

15. And get sued when she bruises being 'picked up?'

No thanks - call an ambulance. If she refuses, she refuses. When it is so easy to be sued into oblivion for trying to help, it should come as no shock that people won't help.

[raccoon]

17. Isn't there some kind of Good Samaritan law about stuff like that?

On edit: THere are such laws, but it depends on the jurisdiction.


Good Samaritan laws are laws or acts protecting from liability those who choose to aid others who are injured or ill. They are intended to reduce bystanders' hesitation to assist, for fear of being sued or prosecuted for unintentional injury or wrongful death. In Canada, a good Samaritan doctrine is a legal principle that prevents a rescuer who has voluntarily helped a victim in distress from being successfully sued for 'wrongdoing'. Its purpose is to keep people from being reluctant to help a stranger in need for fear of legal repercussions if they were to make some mistake in treatment.<1> Good Samaritan laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, as will their interactions with various other legal principles, such as consent, parental rights and the right to refuse treatment. Such laws generally do not apply to medical professionals' or career emergency responders' on-the-job conduct, but some extend protection to professional rescuers when they are acting in a volunteer capacity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

[MiniMe]

31. I agree, that part of the story stuck out to me

And she stopped making noises and was quiet on Monday, so he covered her with a blanket. Something is not right there. I hope he was giving her fluids and food. How do you leave somebody on the floor for 4 days?

[Common Sense Party]

48. That's what I can't figure out. I could not live in the same residence,

hear someone moving around and moaning on the floor, and leave her there. He could have called SOMEBODY.

[atreides1]

62. With a few exceptions

That being the neighbors or pastor, the cops would have called in an ambulance, the paramedics would have probably showed up in an ambulance, and the mailman would have called 911, and they would have sent an ambulance.


But at this time none of us have any idea of what may or may not have happened. We'll just have to wait until the authorities are done with their investigation.

[Common Sense Party]

72. Apparently, that's what she needed--an ambulance.

And this wonderful roommate didn't want the heat for calling one. The pastor wouldn't care--the church could help her pay for it. If she was unable to pay for the ambulance, someone would have covered it.

[emilyg]

64. Very fishy. Not buying it.

[Rebubula]

11. Healthcare is too expensive

However, it is beyond stupid to deny yourself care. She could have called someone to take her to the hospital.

Until further information comes in...I will write this one off to stupidity and the callousness of the man residing at the same address (Whatever that means).

[eilen]

28. If she could not walk and was significantly overweight, how are you

going to get her up/down stairs and out to a car? There are wheelchair vans that can transport you, those you have schedule and they cost about $100. I have had patients whose only transport option was a wheelchair van. They would save so they could go to church once a month.

I also saw many people who would fall and call 911 to come, pick them up and then refuse transport to the hospital. They all sign releases. I would say a big number of calls to 911 are to lift older people off the floor. Many times they are not injured. This is true for those assistive living places that cost a bundle as well as senior housing. I felt that a good number of these people who chroncially fall really need a higher level of care but don't wish to relinquish independence. There really should be a better alternative for picking people up off the floor than 911.

Really, I think this person did not want to go to the ED and thought they felt fine, just a little shook up. Many people practice self denial when it comes to health. Yesterday I admitted a guy who had been having chest pains on and off for the last 6 months and put off going to his doctor. They are younger than in the past --40 and up. Almost all signifcantly obese -- upwards of 300+ pds.

[Rebubula]

46. Agree with you

The story is just too light on the details.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

14. Teabag mantra

You can't afford it, you don't deserve it!

[scorpiogirl]

91. You said a mouthful!

:P

That's exactly how they think. I've been on the receiving end of that bullshit.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Juche]

20. I've heard Europeans ask that same question

"If that was happening here, we'd be in the streets" or some variety of that has come out of the mouths of several Europeans I've known in real life and on boards.

I don't know. Why don't the people of Sudan rise up? I don't know.

[Marthe48]

29. the playoffs

or American Idol, or something, that's why.

[PassingFair]

30. Because most of us still have color TV's.

Nothing will happen until the veil is pulled off.

[kath]

51. +10

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. Because we are not uncivilized savages

[salguine]

73. Right. Civilized is letting old people die because an ambulance ride cuts into the profits.

[Freddie Stubbs]

75. She was not denied an ambulance ride.

It was her choice to be cheap.

[JackintheGreen]

82. You say cheap, I say frugal

Still, I would have asked for some help getting up.

I'm not saying she shouldn't have called an ambulance, but I can see myself doing the exact same thing. Except that I would have asked somebody to help me up.

Hell, last spring I collapsed for no discernible reason, brained myself on the toilet and woke up in a pool of my own blood. My wife almost had to beg me to go see a doctor.

[PJPhreak]

63. Because we act like civilized Folk...

Tho I'm not sure how much longer that will last.

[emsimon33]

87. Because so many think that one day they will be among the top 1%

and they don't want to have to have even a penny go to the "less deserving" once they have become wealthy.

[tonekat]

18. One would think this is cause for alarm...

But, with the Dems going into reactionary mode, I guess health care will continue to be lousy for the foreseeable future.

[kestrel91316]

22. They ARE too expensive. When you call 911 and the paramedics haul you off

to the ER, your tax dollars and mine should be paying. If it is a legitimate emergency there MUST NEVER BE A BILL!!! To bill emergency patients for taking them to the ER is a crime against humanity.

[begin_within]

23. An ambulance trip can easily cost $800

My Mom took an ambulance after a choking event, and we got the bill, $825, but her HMO did pay it because it was judged medically necessary. Now if she needs to go I drive her because I'm right here and I can get her there sooner than waiting for an ambulance, as the hospital is only 2 miles away.

[Diclotican]

26. 4dsc

4dsc

Horrible, just horrible to read...


Good Im living in a Country, where you have "socialist wellfare" and where a ride with an ambulance after you broke some bones in your body are free. If you dosen't get in the emergency room on your own then, but even then you get pretty fast into surgery to medical attention... In fact if you are ill, you get the treatment at the hospital for free.. And by the way, we pay our potential stay in the hospital by our taxes...

Diclotican

[Wapsie B]

35. But you have to wait 6 months for medical care right?

:sarcasm:


America #1. Not hardly.

[Diclotican]

42. Wapsie B

Wapsie B

No, last time I was in the doctors office I had an appointment after 2 hour, becouse i called early and he had no other that day that early.. And I got the medication I needed the same day.. Wel, had to wait for the sleeping pills to the next day, but that was becouse they was out of stock at the farmacy.. But I got the painkillers for my knee the same day, and wel now its okay again - to next time around...

But of course, if it is not "life-treating" you might be put into some list and have to wait for a while, but for the most part you are not sitting around for 6 months for medical care

But, i Guess US healt care is supurb to everything else in the world, as this storry pretty wel show:sarcasm:

Diclotican

[onehandle]

32. They tried to charge my mom $1500 for a 1 mile ride in a non-emergency situation.

We stiffed them.

[TeeYiYi]

68. If it wasn't an emergency, why did you use an ambulance? ...nt

TYY

[onehandle]

71. She was going in for a surgical procedure and was fairly immobile at the time.

We were going to call a 'special needs' service, which would have been a lot cheaper.

But the doctor insisted on an ambulance because of her age and frailty.

[UpInArms]

33. okay - so why didn't she get a ride to the doctor with a friend or family member?

the ambulance is not the only way to go to the hospital. This is so sad in so many ways.

[snooper2]

34. This story is all fucked up...this fucked up guy...

he couldn't lift her up...okay..

A- call an ambulance and don't worry about the money she is dying!
B- If you are that worried about the charges go outside, walk 300 feet to a neighbor and get some help...


jesus h. fucking christ, he just let her lay there for days...he should be charged with negligent homicide or something

[madmax]

37. I was thinking the exact same thing.

What a heartless sob.

[LisaL]

90. The 72 year old woman lays on the floor for 4 days and

the guy didn't call the ambulance because she believed it was too expensive? That boggles my mind.
You'd think that at some point (like after she lay there for a day) he'd figure out not to worry about the cost.

[madmax]

36. Here in the Triangle area of North Carolina

Apex to be exact. Cost for ambulance transport is 400.00. If you pay a yearly fee of 60.00 there is no charge. I was looking for the post card that was sent but, this is what I remember :o

I fell and hurt both ankles and was transported by ambulance to ER. my husbands insurance paid for it.

[Stumbler]

38. What? An ambulance was too expensive?

Well maybe she should've gotten a contract for $400 million to host a radio show. After all, that's how "real Americans" pay for their health care....
:sarcasm:

[colsohlibgal]

39. The Audacity of Waffling

This kind of thing is blood on the hands of many - Obama, Baucus, Droopy Dog (aka Lieberman),et al.

Contrast the two parties - the wingnut party has not had 60 votes in the Senate since the very start of the roaring 20s and they have passed all kinds of wingnutty stuff that has us where we are today. Dubya passed about what he wanted, and got closet Nazis like Roberts on the Supremes with no more than 50 votes. We have had 59 for a year and Obama goes on his stupid olive branch kick, leading me to wonder how he could not know what most of us here know - the repukes are just going to obstruct. Sometimes for all his education Obama sure doesn't seem so sharp.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. When my mother and stepfather were still living independently

my stepfather started falling frequently, and my mom would call the local cops to come and pick him up.

They'd ask him if he was injured, he'd say no, and that would be the end of it.

[Maat]

41. This story sounds strange.

My beloved dad (deceased in 2006) went into a hypoglycemic shock in the 80's one day. I called the ambulance when he was saying goofy things in his apartment through the door (for some reason, he wouldn't open it). He was behaving in quite a crazy fashion and saying delusional things. Anyway, I called the police and an ambulance. They listened to my story, and took him right in, even though he was protesting. Maybe they were using the excuse that he might have needed a mental health evaluation (per what I was saying).

[lse7581011]

43. I Fell In November

and refused to go the ER because of the costs associated. This was at 6:15 in the morning and my PCP couldn't see me until 2:30. When I finally got in there she diagnosed me with a compression fracture of a thoracic disc and couldn't understand why I didn't go to the ER!

[LynneSin]

44. Ok so why didn't the guy in the apartment take her there

:shrug:

[radhika]

53. Puleeze....or even a cab!

Too creepy to think of sitting with a dead body in house for 4 day - obviously there was a phone, he mentioned using it.

[LynneSin]

76. He knew she fell

I remember about a day after a bad car accident I was feeling the affects of whiplash (although at the time I had no clue what it was.) Not wanting the expense or trauma of an ambulance I called my local cab company and they took me there. Brought me home too.

I'm just really bothered by this article because we are too quick to blame healthcare but not one person seemed to want to help this woman in any other way.

[The Backlash Cometh]

45. I don't know how much of this I can take.

We are a lot of things, but compassionate is not one of them. Why don't we throw telethons together each year for a kitty to pay for these things?

Because some greedy bastard will figure out how to take that money through Administrative costs.

[JPZenger]

49. In most of PA, only invoice insurance cos. not individuals

In most of PA that I am familiar with, the trend with public ambulance services is to only bill people for emergency ambulance service if they have insurance or medical assistance. Some of the insurance companies refuse to pay unless there is a local ordinance requiring payment.

A number of the volunteer ambulance companies have memberships that cover the cost of mostly non-emergency trips.

[BolivarianHero]

50. What kind of pathetic country makes people worry about this shit?

If I or my loved ones needs to use an ambulance, we have no need to concern ourselves with the cost of using the vehicles. Sad when your "progressives" are too scared and too dense to save these people.

[totodeinhere]

54. I am sorry that this happened to her. But...

IMO it's just crazy to refuse an ambulance because it's too expensive. Apparently given a choice between a big ambulance bill or dying she chose death. If I were her, I'd have gone in the ambulance and worried about the bill later. I might have to lose my credit rating or declare bankruptcy, but at least I'd still be alive.

This isn't to say that health care in this country is not too expensive, because of course it is. But given a choice I would still choose life.

[femrap]

56. Assisted Suicide

is going to be in high demand. People are not going to work their entire lives and then watch their life's savings go to 'Health Care' in a short few weeks.

People want to pass something on to their families or charities...not to a greedy 'Health Care' system.

edited for spelling

[RedCloud]

58. It is as if the Health care Industry is a vulture waiting to suck the last drop

[humblebum]

60. As a volunteer first responder, this situation happens everyday.

Ambulance services are prohibitively and unnecessarily expensive for many people. One example: If an elderly person falls and we are called to respond-itcosts that person nothing to simply be picked up off the floor. But, if they are injured and transport is required, the cost is usually around 700-800 dollars for transporting alone. Medicare oftentimes will not cover this if they decide that the person could have transported themselves. The sad reality of healthcare in America. On an average ambulance call there are 3-6 EMT's at the scene for one person - sometimes more.

[Webster Green]

61. I wound up with a $1500 bill for a 20 minute ambulance ride.

Eventually, I got it whittled down because I told them I simply couldn't afford it.

Worst part was some dumbass EMT trying to hit a vein to start an IV while were were bumping down the highway. I told him to just please stop trying, and he did.

[atreides1]

65. The sad part

Is that according to a map of the area there was a clinic not more then 2 blocks from her house. A clinic called Life Line Resources LLC.

[defendandprotect]

66. GOP's "Third World America" --

[Codeine]

67. I am sooo not buying this.

It sounds really fishy.

[totodeinhere]

70. This may or may not be legit.

But things like this do happen.

[LynneSin]

77. I agree with you 100%

* The police knew about the fall and did nothing about it nor followed up with her? And trust me, if she was in that bad of condition they could have ignored her wishes and brought in the ambulance anyway even if it was just to have a medic look at her condition there on the spot.

* The neighbor never offered to drive her to a doctor or help get cab fare?

I know we are all liberals and want to blame the evils of healthcare on this situation - but I think there is more to it than that.

[harun]

69. I'm tempted to print out this article and send it to my Blue Dog Rep.

[Common Sense Party]

74. Better make sure the roommate's story holds up first.

[harun]

83. Yah, see that now.

[Common Sense Party]

84. And it might...but something sure doesn't smell right.

[Uncle Joe]

79. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, 4dsc.

[babydollhead]

80. My Dad's father died because

they could not afford the 20 dollars it cost for an ambulance in the 1940's. They all sat around him and watched him die.

[Odin2005]

81. This is a disgrace.

[marshall]

85. Why couldn't this man or her daughter call neighbors to help pick her up?

At this point all the authorities have is this man's word that the woman did not want help to be called. I wonder if he is or thought he was an heir to her estate, or stood to gain in some other way from her passing?

[anneboleyn]

94. I wonder. Or he was stealing from her apartment why she was helpless and in need of assistance.

[pengillian101]

95. Indeed odd.

She's in her 70's and he's in his 50's. Wonder if he was just a boarder in the house, or what?

Poor woman, days to die on the floor.

[anneboleyn]

93. My question: how does any human being leave someone moaning in pain on the floor for three days?

And this person did not seek any help at all for this woman, including asking for her daughter's phone number to call her in for assistance or to let her know her mother had fallen down? Instead he left this woman moaning on the floor in agony while he waited for her to "fall asleep" and stop making noise. Very peculiar story.

I do understand about ambulances, but something seems very peculiar here.

[Quantess]

96. That's a convenient defense.

Maybe he wanted her dead.

[Trillo]

97. Most Expensive Healthcare Delivery system in the world!

Is it also the most efficient at extracting money from the injured?