Woe is Toyota

[marmar]

Reuters via Yahoo:



Toyota safety recall spreads to Europe, China


TOKYO/PARIS (Reuters) – Toyota Motor Corp extended its safety recall of millions of its most popular cars to Europe and China on Thursday in a further blow to the reputation of the world's largest auto maker.

The scale of the fix for potentially dangerous accelerator pedals emboldened rivals and could land the Japanese carmaker with hundreds of millions of dollars in extra costs per month.

Toyota, a byword for quality and reliability, said it had not yet determined how many vehicles in Europe would be recalled, or when, but media and analysts believe 2 million may be affected on top of some 6 million in North America.

In China, the world's biggest auto market in 2009, the carmaker said on Thursday it had submitted an application to recall over 75,000 RAV4 vehicles. ..........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100128/bs_nm/us_toyota_recall

[Juneboarder]

1. I still stand behind Toyota...

at least they are owning up to the error rather than trying to brush it under the rug.

Here is an excerpt from an internal email from a Toyota dealership to its employees:

"Toyota has found the error; the component from CTS will be corrected. As we await instructions on how to support the corrective process, it is important not to panic or deal in idle talk. That will harm your future and our company. But, rather be pleased that Toyota recognizes the problem and is pro-actively doing something about it to the degree of stopping production for a short while to correct the problem. This is a screw up, but not a cover up."

[1gobluedem]

5. Toyota was required to recall those cars by NHTSA - they didn't do it because they're responsible

Not entirely anyway.

[1]

6. smart to stand behind them. just don't stand in front of one. it will "zoom" forward and squish you.

[Juneboarder]

14. As would any car...

with a person behind the wheel pushing down on the accelerator :)

[itsrobert]

26. Or if the accelerator is stuck by faulty parts

that should of been recall years ago.

[Juneboarder]

28. The accelerator wouldn't be stuck...

unless there was someone behind the pedal that pushed it down to begin with... :)

[enlightenment]

11. I also stand behind them.

They aren't the first car company to put out a defective product and then back-pedal like mad (and be forced into admissions, etc).

Timeline of Automobile recalls (scroll to the bottom for the 'timeline' link): http://www.google.com/search?q=history+of+automobile+recalls&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=Qwv&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=ye9hS9zGK4vwsgO0n-m0Dg&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CDIQ5wIwCg

Ford has had the most recalls (total numbers): http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/aug2007/bw20070810_455098.htm

I honestly don't understand why so many DUers are positively gleeful about this. Is it because they're a foreign company?

Whatever. I like my Scion (which apparently was spared whatever problem this is) and would buy from Toyota again.


edited to add clarification comment

[Juneboarder]

13. DU'ers assert that...

Toyota is anti union. I don't know about you and where you live, but I don't know one person that is a member of a union. So, the union argument doesn't really register where I live.

I drive a Matrix and my wife drives a Camry; love them both. Especially love my Matrix now that I have my snowboard racks on!! :)

[Bluebear]

15. "I don't know one person that is a member of a union." - That's a shame.

[Juneboarder]

16. Welcome to southern CA...

Not my fault; it's just my asserted fact :)

[Bluebear]

19. Just because you live in a non-union area, you still could support unions.

But whatever.

[Juneboarder]

20. Just because all your friends

are jumping off the bridge doesn't mean you have to as well. To each their own; its best to be non-judgmental my friend. :)

Here in CA, teachers make close to nothing for the jobs they perform. Should they thank their union for their low pay?

[Romulox]

23. But you just said that you don't support unions because you don't know any union workers...

You are the one who is "going with the crowd". As you yourself suggest, to support union workers would make one a non-conformist in So. Cal. :hi:

[Juneboarder]

29. That is correct...

I do not personally know of any union employees. I'm not pointing fingers, why are you?

[Romulox]

30. Yep. (Way to not see how your metaphor applies to yourself, btw: "friends jumping off bridge")

:hi:

[Juneboarder]

33. Let us clarify

I do not support nor am I against unions. All I stated was that DU'ers seem to have an issue with Toyota since they are not union friendly. I don't know if you've tried looking for jobs in the State of CA, but no union jobs are hiring; thus leaving me to fend for myself without the help of a union. I have 3 jobs, my wife 1 job, and we also have a 17 month old son we must provide and care for.

I do what I must to get by in life.

[Romulox]

34. There's a name for your ideology: (starts with a big R...)

Tell me why I should care about your biography when you state, point blank, and apparently without shame, that you don't stand with workers? I'm beginning to believe that the basic concept of "reciprocity" eludes you. :shrug:

[Juneboarder]

36. Actually, I'm a registed Dem

as if that makes any point. All parties might as well be considered Repukes now since that's where were headed; but that has nothing to do with providing for a family. Maybe I am not as fortunate as you, but I must do what is needed to get food on my table and pay my bills. I never asserted that I am against "the workers" and why would I since I belong to "the workers" three times over? Tell me how I am wrong in providing for my family... What would you do in a situation as such?

[Romulox]

37. I am simply not interested in you or your biography.

I am beginning to believe that your inability to understand the basic mechanics of reciprocity is either a put on or a personality disorder.

Either way, I'm not interested. :hi:

[Bluebear]

38. And now, for the follow-up "I was the victim of DU hate" thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7594793

[Romulox]

39. The poster seems oblivious as to how his own admonishments apply to himself.

It's a put on, I'd wager.

[Juneboarder]

42. I guess I can't be as judgmental

as you folks. Glad you're happy with the way you treat others. Hopefully one of those others isn't a child of yours doing everything in their power to support their family (and might I add without unemployment).

I wish you and your family good times in the bad times our country faces. Nobody should be shot down :)

[Juneboarder]

40. Great way to end the conversation...

Could any of this animosity have anything to do with the fact that you're in snowy MI and I'm in sunny SD? We'd love to have you come here, welcome you with open arms... into our bankrupt state. Things are not always greener on the other side. In fact, things are usually greener in MI than SD (at least in the seasons other than winter)

Peace my friend :)

[Romulox]

41. Well, after all, I don't know anybody from San Diego. So it's easy not to care.

:shrug:

:rofl:

[Juneboarder]

44. All for the better...

I hope you have a great day!

[blue_onyx]

63. LOL

Yeah...the rest of the country just sits around being jealous of California

:sarcasm:

Seriously...what an odd, self-centered statement

[DainBramaged]

54. Pukes are anti-Union

What does Mama and the Mookes say, they start out saying they are independents who voted for Obama and then the laundry list of talking points spews out like paint in a white room.......

[Juneboarder]

69. Never said I was anti-union

[DainBramaged]

74. You don't have to say it, your words tell the story

I stand by what I say. After 40+ years as a PROUD Union member, it's easy to pick scabs out of the crowd.

[Juneboarder]

79. Not a scab

Ever heard the line, "sticks and stones..."? Your attacks don't hurt me in the least; just makes you look less credible. Have a great day! :)

[conscious evolution]

75. ibts

[Bluebear]

24. Sorry, "non-judgmental" does not apply to anti-labor sentiments.

[Juneboarder]

32. Non-judgmental

should be something everyone practices in all aspects of life, and should not be put to the way-side when it comes to labor, politics, religion, anything... I am not anti labor, I am a realist that lives in real time here in San Diego. I have a family to support and provide for and must do everything and anything in my power to provide. To me, this means 3 jobs on top of my wife working full time.

Thanks for your input though, my friend :)

[conscious evolution]

76. I got mine

fuck everyone else?

[Juneboarder]

80. Not what I said

[conscious evolution]

81. sure sounded like it to me

[Juneboarder]

82. My words are above

and they do not read that. If it "sounds" different to you, then that would be your "interpretation"... I guess.

Have a great day :)

[DainBramaged]

52. AH so you are anti-union then? Anti-American, anti-domestic autos

anti-American manufactured goods as long as you can get yours cheap?

[Bluebear]

58. I thought of you throughout this conversation today :)

[DainBramaged]

60. Just catching up my friend

I can smell them a mile away.........



:hi: :hug: :hug:

[Juneboarder]

71. Nope; again... I never said I was anti union

[DainBramaged]

77. Did someone else write these words?

"I do not support nor am I against unions". Non-support is just as good as being anti-Union in this neck of the Progressive woods. pal.

[Juneboarder]

78. Great way to twist words

when quoting them... have a good day buddy! :)

[WinkyDink]

61. They'd make less non-unionized, you'd better believe.

[Juneboarder]

70. I couldn't agree with you more

But what do you do when that's your only option? We don't even have grocery unions anymore; not because of me but because of the damn corporations that run America. Again, I'm not anti-union, just live in an area that is not unionized at all. As well, unions today (at least here in southern CA) are not the same as they used to be 30 years ago. Unions have been infiltrated by the opposition and really they're in it just like all the corporations are. The government, unions, corporations are all united... against your average citizen. Take from the poor and line their pocketbooks. This is what I'm against.

[blue_onyx]

62. I don't understand....

why so many of the same DUer who criticized the US automakers for their supposedly inferior products don't criticize Toyota. Many of the most strongly pro-Toyota posters have completely avoided threads about Toyota's current quality issues...I'm sure they just didn't see the threads :eyes:

I'm happy that the nonsense that Toyota lovers pushed about the brand's quality is finally being shown to be incorrect. All auto companies have had problems but Toyota fans act like Toyota is perfect.


"I honestly don't understand why so many DUers are positively gleeful about this"

You mean in the same way I watched as many, many DUers gleefully waited for GM and Chrysler to be liquidate?

[enlightenment]

66. Well, I didn't do any gleeful waiting for GM and Chrysler,

so you're talking to the wrong person in that regard.

I pointed out that Toyota is not the only auto maker to have problems with their products and wondered why DU'ers seem so happy to toss them out with the trash. Perhaps I simply haven't been paying enough attention to the other episodes of grave-dancing.

I don't think ANY car is perfect - and this is the first Toyota I've owned, so while I might be a 'convert' I'm hardly a disciple; please save your vitriol and snark for someone else.

[blue_onyx]

68. "please save your vitriol and snark for someone else."

You do the same.

[enlightenment]

73. I was polite in my first post -

my question was sincere, not snarky. I was polite (more than you really deserved, actually) in my response to you.

I'm sorry you feel otherwise, but that's something you'll have to deal with on your own - and I mean that quite sincerely. You're looking for an argument - or something else - and I have no intention of obliging you.

[blue_onyx]

87. Oh really?

There was nothing rude, offensive, or inaccurate in my original statement. You pointed out that you felt people were "gleeful" about Toyota's issues and I pointed out that people were also "gleeful" about GM/Chrysler's issues too.

You ignored the content of what I said and instead focus on the perceived negative tone of it.


"You're looking for an argument - or something else - and I have no intention of obliging you."

Not at all what I'm looking for. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy that is common on DU. If you can't handle that, then it's your problem.

I feel sorry that you are so blindly loyal to Toyota that you insist on standing behind them despite their lies and quality issues. I'll never understand why people blindly believe things, ignoring all contrary facts. It's sad because Toyota doesn't care about you and yet you'll blindly defend them.

[we can do it]

25. Better Than Standing In Front Of One

oh did I just accelerate accidentally?

[roguevalley]

31. standing behind Toyota is a lot smarter right now than standing in front.

:P

[Liberal_in_LA]

53. hee hee. You beat me to it.

[Kalyke]

46. I'd stand in front of them. They'd break down before they could hit me.

:rofl:

[Juneboarder]

48. My 2000 Toyota Prerunner...

150,000+ miles; first oil change at 15,000 miles; hardly taken care of it; still running steady.

[DainBramaged]

51. Toyota poo poohed the original complaints JUST like they did over engines exploding from

massive sludge problems in the early decade and frames on their trucks prematurely rusting out (with the dangerous effect of the spare tire falling out of the mount while driving OR the rear axle separating from the truck). They tried to blame 'excessive salt' in the Northern States for that one, where NO OTHER MANUFACTUER eve experienced corrosion to that extent after so few years. They were using WAY too much recycled steel in the frames.


Toyota is a sham and cowards, they all too often try to blame the consumer. Google the sludge issue, you'll see that EVEN after the settlement, they were encouraging dealers to get people to PAY for the damaged engines claiming they didn't change the oil enough.

[ingac70]

67. Being forced to stop sales isn't "owning up".

They've known about this problem for years.

[Myrina]

2. ... would be nice if they included my 2006 in the recall ...

... i really don't want it anymore and can't afford the payments.

[Grand Taurean]

3. Ford is doing well these days.

We need to support American manufacturing.
GM is still blowing in the wind.

[FarCenter]

4. Ford in China also used CTS Corp pedal modules and has a production halt

Minimal amount of production though.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5idZgY05TBEwKzprpgXv4PMHxIyWg

Ford stops production of some vehicles in China with part tied to Toyota recall
By Dan Strumpf (CP) – 5 hours ago

NEW YORK — Ford Motor Co. (NYSE:F) has halted production of some full-sized commercial vehicles in China because they contain gas pedals built by the same company behind the accelerators in Toyota Motor Corp.'s recent recall.

Ford spokesman Said Deep said Thursday the diesel version of its Transit Classic built by a Chinese joint venture contains accelerators built by CTS Corp. (NYSE:CTS), based in Elkhart, Ind. The vehicles began production in December and only about 1,600 have been produced, he said.

In a statement, Ford partner Jiangling Motors Co. said there have been no reported problems with the Transit Classic, but it is conducting a review of pedal assembly part to determine the next step. The diesel Transit Classic is the Ford's only vehicle that contains gas pedal parts made by CTS, Deep said.

Accelerators made by CTS, which has a manufacturing facility in Mississauga, Ont., are at the centre of a massive recall and production halt by Toyota over fears that the gas pedals may get stuck and cause unintended acceleration. CTS makes gas pedal systems for various automakers, though Toyota and Ford are the only ones to announce production stoppages.

<SNIP>

[SidDithers]

8. I drive right past the Mississauga CTS facility every night...

on my way home.

Can't imagine it's a very happy place these days.

Sid

[FarCenter]

9. They are apparently ramping production on a modified design

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyota-pedal-maker-says-apf-395647835.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=3&asset=&ccode=

I'd bet the quality control guys have had a bad week.

[RoadRage]

7. The American Car Makers knew it would take an "Act of God" to help get them back on their feet..

Instead they got a bailout and Toyota internally imploding. I 'spose they'll take it.

I drive a Honda.. anyone hears any problems about the '03 Accord or the '06 Pilot.. lemme know.

[Romulox]

17. I know what each of these words means individually, but together it's a word salad...

:shrug:

[Kalyke]

47. Ford didn't take the bailout and the country of Japan

repeatedly invests in the R&D for all its car companies.

Ford got back on its feet by building reliable cars that get good gas mileage and, get this, DON'T LOOK LIKE A BUBBLE, A BOX OR SOME OTHER UGLY LITTLE FOREIGN JOBBY.

There... clear things up?

[DainBramaged]

55. Japan invests NO MORE than the Domestics do

they just build boring cars that get redesigned more often and they pay WAY more attention to styling rather than innovation. The Peeus isn't innovate. And what have they come up with since?

[Blue_Tires]

10. Not surprised at all...

Starting a few years ago there were several insider leaks and industry blogs saying that after taking over the #1 spot, the arrogant hubris and the 'can do no wrong' mindset started to infect Toyota management, and they started to neglect the little details that made them #1 to begin with (sound familiar??) As a result product has suffered, and we are seeing the end result...

[madrchsod]

12. toyota failed their own internal qc checks on vendor parts

and it looks like they have`t update that vendors quality rating. they will not replace all the gas pedal assemblies.

[Romulox]

18. Is Consumer Reports still recommending Toyotas without testing them?

:silly:

[Brickbat]

22. They count the cupholders and say, "IT'S A GO!"

[upi402]

27. CR is really into horsepower, not economy

I had to bail on them, sadly. But used to subscribe for years. I just don't buy stuff anymore.

[Codeine]

65. LMFAO!

CR is the fucking Bible for a certain class of American liberal. My best friend won't buy a fucking matchstick without consulting them.

[Romulox]

72. I subscribed for years, but it became apparent that CR's methods were neither scientific, systematic

The recommendations of car models without testing them being the most infamous example. But one of the other things that really bothered me is the relatively small sample sizes of their tests, and the sloppy (imo) generalizations they constantly were drawing from those same tests.

To put it in practical terms: when I purchased my washer and dryer, the models CR recommended were no longer in production. So I got a similar model marketed by the same company (which also markets other rebranded stuff,) but with a different feature set. How much CR's recommendations as to a different model apply to that one is anyone's guess.

[NoGOPZone]

85. what would be an acceptable sample size to you?

and more importantly, do you have any suggestions on how the increased sample size would be financed? Products CR tests are bought anonymously at retail. Purchasing more than one multiplies the cost.

It would seem that you feel most product testing is useless, since as far as I know most magazine reviews of products are based on a sample of one.

[NoGOPZone]

84. Are you ever going to stop repeating that canard? nt

[David Zephyr]

21. Yikes, now I'm in the recall.

I have a new hybrid Hylander. Spooky.

[LanternWaste]

35. Companies are in it for the profit.

No shocker to me. Companies are in it for the profit margin and the stock options-- foreign and domestic, auto and otherwise...

[Forkboy]

43. Nah...Woe is a kick ass band I'm going to see in March.

:P

[Odin2005]

45. That can't be, the Toyota shills tell me that they are perfect!

:sarcasm:

[vicdoc]

83. But they are...

Well, maybe not so much.

My Toyota experience: 2007 Camry V6 had transmission failure at 2000 miles, they put a new one in and it also failed at about 1800 miles. While the car was out of service they let me use a Camry rental at no cost, and when the second transmission failed they gave me every penny I paid back, so I bought a Camry Hybrid. My Camry Hybrid has been exemplary, if a bit boring, in 94,000 miles. Plus it gets 39 mpg.
So although they can have problems, Toyota has been very good dealing with them in my experience.
I would consider an American made American brand car, probably a Ford. But for my 2 sons I opted for American made Hondas since they liked them better than Toyotas. We have had very no problems with these Hondas, too.

[slutticus]

49. Good thing I bought a Nissan!

[bluecollarcharlie]

50. For what its worth..........

....those parts are made to YOYO's specs. As is any outsourced part. essentially what is happening now is that Toyota is capitalizing on the sheer IGNORANCE of both the press and the buying public to throw a supplier, CTS under a very large bus. Predictably, a lot of very "smart people" are going to fall for it. First it was floor-mats, then came the pedals. What if after all this people still crash and die or are severely injured? What then?

TOYOTA...Moving forward. Even when you had no plans to do so.

[miyazaki]

56. the bigger the boot the better with some peeps here. n/t

[unkachuck]

57. "...recall of millions of its most popular cars..."

....although I can't say with 100% certainty, my common sense tells me, that the good old Detroit U.S.A. UAW Union-Made Accelerator Pedals don't have this problem....

[DainBramaged]

59. CTS assemblies for Honda, Nissan, and Mitsubishi's are PROBLEM free.

who decided to force the manufacturer to make the assembly cheaper therefor making is less safe, hmmmmm, maybe Toyota, who tries to get supplies to reduce costs like Wal-Mart does....


Outside safety experts say possible causes also include the complicated electronic sensors that relay the message from the gas pedal to the engine, the design and location of the sensor system, a lack of a fail-safe override mechanism,


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35110966/ns/business-autos/

[flvegan]

64. ...so buying a Mazdaspeed 3 is a great idea.

Yeah, I'm a pathetic shill. But I love the car!

[JCMach1]

86. Been living off '90s rep for years...

They are no better than most other car companies these days...

Morally, they have been worse...

think unions and recalls...



Toyota can bite me!