If they forced the GOP to actually DO their filibuster, just keep talking till they drop...

[Kablooie]

they might back down. Or at least some of the 40 might want to back down.

I'm sure they won't be prepared so they will have to sputter nonsense which won't help their image.

It would make big news and show that the GOP is causing the problem, not the Democrats.

And it could be compared to the two other times there were marathon filibusters, to prevent abolition of slavery and to prevent blacks from getting equal rights.

It would be a circus but we need something that can be used to shake the Repugs out of their arrogant, complacent, lockstep, obstructionism.

[cliffordu]

1. Yep, precisely

[SlingBlade]

2. I think the Democrats are waiting ...

For the fucking Tooth fairy to come along and sprinkle some of her dust on the Re-Pukes heads.

Yea, That'll show those Fucktard Republicans

[Kablooie]

4. Olympia ... Please vote with us ... please ... pretty please? Look I'm bowing down. Please?

Oh, your butt? Why of course! Anytime Olympia. Please vote with us. Please?

[bluestateguy]

3. But that wouldn't happen

Instead what would happen, if Democrats tried to force a real filibuster, is that one after another Blue Dog wussies would start jumping off the boat, saying that we need to "find consensus". First Lieberman would vote against cloture, then Nelson, then Lincoln, then Landrieu, then Pryor, etc.

[Kablooie]

5. But they only need 51.

[SlingBlade]

8. BINGO !

[mindwalker_i]

6. > they will have to sputter nonsense

And this is different from the modus operandus, how?

[TexasObserver]

7. Absolutely. Make them do it.

This is like letting some spoiled brat say "I'll throw a fit at the check out if you don't let me get what I want!"

The answer is always "do it, and I'll leave the stuff at the check out counter and take your ass out!"

[SlingBlade]

9. But The ReTugs Might Charge Them For Treason !

If they actually tried that shit :)

[Kablooie]

11. Or the Republicans might not want to be friends anymore. Horrors.

[SlingBlade]

14. OMG : Let the Nail Biting Begin

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. Top reason why we should force the GOP to filibuster

(1) Eventually they'll get around to reading the Constitution.

[Matariki]

12. Like calling the bluff of a kid who threatens to hold their breath...

go ahead. go right ahead.

[Meldread]

13. Let them filibuster, then threaten the nuclear option.

Reed is a shitty leader of the Senate. There is no reason for the Senate to be held up like this. None. If Democrats want to jump ship? Fine. Tell them that if they jump ship, you strip everything that goes to their states for all future and some past previsions (pick key goodies for that state and pet projects), and if they are a Chairman threaten to have them stripped of that title. Finally, if they still seem uppity, let them know if they jump ship you'll make damn sure they don't get a fucking penny from the DCCC, the DNC, or any other outside group to help with their re-election. Tell them to go ahead and join the Republicans - then enjoy their primary challenge from the Tea Baggers.

Don't take shit. Make them eat shit, then die if they won't toe the line. Let the filibuster happen, let the Republican's look like fools, let them shut down the fucking government. Use the opportunity to crush them politically. Make them filibuster EVERYTHING, not actually threaten - MAKE THEM DO IT. Then if the Republican's won't cave, and it causes serious issues, pull the trigger and use the nuclear option. Kill the filibuster dead.

That, my dear Harry, is leadership.

[Kablooie]

15. Or you can say, please be my friend. I will kiss your heiney if you will be my friend.

THAT my dear Meldread is the way the REAL Senate is run!

Hurrumph!

[Meldread]

19. LOL. I'd do almost anything to be in Harry's shoes right now.

I'm pretty sure I'd have more than a few Democratic Senator's leaving my office in tears, and virtually the entire caucus praying for me to lose my re-election. Daily. :P

But damn it, they'd toe the line, or I'd proverbially knife them and leave them to bleed out on the Senate floor as an example to the others. Especially if I thought I was going to lose my re-election. With nothing left to lose, and everything to gain by getting stuff done, you're damn certain I'd be rolling heads.

What's that old saying, "It is better to be feared than loved." ? :evilgrin:

I don't know why Harry is such a fucking coward. He's in his mid-70's at least, one foot is already in the grave, he's probably going to lose his re-election, what does he have to lose by going hardcore-balls-to-the-wall at this point? Nothing. How many chances do you get to have a Senate with this large of a majority? It virtually never happens, and he's going to piss it away.

Frankly, I'm so sick of the Democrats in Congress I almost WANT them to lose, the only thing that keeps me from hoping for it is the fact that Republican's would replace them... and Republican's know how to get shit done. The only problem with that is all the shit they want to get done, I want them to fail at.

[Kablooie]

22. He seems to be handing the whole government back to the GOP, tied up with a ribbon.

[NICO9000]

25. There is truly something wrong with the man

For a supposed former boxer, he's the biggest pussy ever. I've always wondered if he's really some stealth Rethug who's main purpose is to say "thank you sir, may I have another?" I hate to bring religion into this, but I do think it's significant that he is a Mormon and they generally tend to be Republican.

[Meldread]

28. I think it's his personality.

He seems like the type of guy that goes along to get along, and then strives to find a consensus. The only problem with that is the fact he's dealing with a bunch of egotistical narcissists. Each of them wants to lead, or thinks of themselves as a leader, and believes that they have the best ideas. This is why a true leader is needed. A true leader in such a situation listens to what everyone has to say, makes a decision, and then forces the group to head in that direction. This is where Harry fails, he listens, but does not have the strength of character nor the respect of his colleagues to actually force them to go where he wants them to go.

This is because he does not understand what they value most. What each of them values most is power. They flock to the individual who has it. It appears to me that in the Democratic Caucus there are a number of individuals who wield the power behind the scenes. They each have their own little coalitions, and if I had to guess correctly, they all put Harry in charge precisely because he is weak. This allows them to use him as their fall guy when things go badly, and also allows them to attempt to control him behind the scenes.

This is why we see such a disjointed and confused message coming from the Democrats in the Senate. Their lack of a leader to force them all to face the same direction and march, undermines everything they attempt to do. Yet, the egos of all involved prevents them from actually putting someone in power that would lay down the law. It no doubt scares the shit out of each and everyone of them, because they know if a real leader appeared in the Senate the little empires they've built for themselves could easily come crumbling apart the moment they stepped out of line.

[John Kerry VonErich]

17. Lets say they did the nuclear option then suddenly....

2012 has a Repug president and the opposition takes both houses. What will happen then? Just askin.

[Kablooie]

20. They will need 51 votes to pass things. That's what. The way it's supposed to be.

[Meldread]

21. More or less the same thing that happened when they had majorities last time.

Except, of course, we'd have a President with veto power.

One of the issues with the Democratic Caucus is that it's so diverse. We have liberals, but we also have moderates and conservatives. It's easy for Republican's to peal away our moderates and conservatives, primarily because our leadership is too weak to hold onto them.

But you're also forgetting that the Republican's can use the nuclear option if they have majorities as well, and they'd do it if they had an issue they wanted passed bad enough. Just the threat of it caused the Democrats to collapse and give in when it came to Bush's Judicial nominees.

However, I'm of the opinion that the majority in the Senate should rule whether or not they are Republican or Democrat. The Senate was never intended to require a super majority, the changes made to the Filibuster over the years (and now the abuse of those changes) have made the Senate dysfunctional.

[Kablooie]

23. Yes. It's dysfunctional and right when we need legislation more than ever in 80 years.

[pimpbot]

30. Doesnt really matter

Dems didnt stand up to anything for the last 8 years, the repubs dont need to go nuclear to get their way. Might as well just use it on them first :)

[John Kerry VonErich]

33. They considered it once.

As I said remember the judicial comfirmation fiasco they went through. They even had an allnighter one time and if one dem senator leaves, they will vote. That didn't work. All I am saying is nuclear option will bite us in the ass very hard. Search archived posts at DU about it.

[John Kerry VonErich]

16. Won't work

GOP tried that tactic on the juducial nomonees fiasco.

[krispos42]

18. I don't think they actually have to talk to filibuster

They just have to hold the floor. The talking is theater, not a requirement. The minority can, in theory, just sit there reading the paper or playing Solitaire.


I think.

[quiller4]

26. Nope. They have to talk. They can read fairy tales if they wish

but speaking is required. I think that Ds need to force Rs to carry out the threat and then record the results--would make great footage for campaign ads.

[krispos42]

27. I remember that Bernie Sanders explained to Thom Hartmann...

...that they didn't have to speak. I guess last year Harry Reid put out a memo because he was taking a lot of fire for not making the Repubs publically obstruct stuff, and finally he explained why.

That's what I'm basing this one.

[NYC Liberal]

24. They don't have to talk though,

they just have to be nearby in case the Dems bring up a vote on cloture.

Just end the filibuster. People say "What if the Republicans get back in power?" First of all, the filibuster never did us any good while we were in the minority before anyway. And second, if we could pass bills with a simple majority, we'd get a hell of a lot more done and wouldn't have to keep compromising -- and thus we'd do BETTER in elections, preventing a Republican majority in the first place.

[elocs]

29. If...if...if. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. "If", such a big word for 2 letters. n/t

[moondust]

31. That would make it too hard.

See, Republicans want to be able to simply shake their heads no at Harry Reid once or twice whenever they want to kill off whatever a majority of the country wants or needs.

:sarcasm:

[Jokinomx]

32. I agree... Let them filibuster till the next election if they have too... n/t

:toast:

[donheld]

34. If a Republican Senator actually spoke that long

the Senate chamber would no doubt over heat and maybe burn down from all the hot air.