America died last week. There was no bang and no whimper.

[Cyrano]

Why are we pretending that we still live in a democracy?

Last week, we all watched as five madmen who sit on the Supreme Court committed murder in plain view. They murdered all of our freedoms. They turned each and every one of us into corporate “property.” They murdered any hopes we may have held for a better life or a better world. They murdered the United States of America.

Do you think these are extreme statements? Think again.

Corporations are now free to buy any and all politicians. They are free to peddle any propaganda they want to peddle. They can spend whatever is needed to convince a vast majority of Americans to do and believe whatever they want them to do and believe. There are no longer any limits or restraints on corporations.

And who’s going to say “no” to them? Suppose that someone walked up to you and offered to spend a billion dollars to get you elected to congress. And that in return for doing what you’re told to do, you can have anything you want. Are you too principled to be bought for a million dollars? How about a billion? How about 10 billion? How about 20? And for everyone who can’t be bought, there are countless others who can.

Of course, we could always amend the Constitution to overturn what these maniacs have done. All we need is two thirds of both the House and the Senate to approve a Constitutional Amendment. And then three quarters of the states would have to approve it. My guess is that it would be easier to walk from here to Mars than to get an amendment to take back our freedoms from the corporations.

Health care, jobs, election reforms, reigning in Wall Street, regulating banks, and whatever else seemed to be possible are now dead illusions. The corporations will move quickly between now and the election this November to consolidate their ownership of us. And their propaganda machinery will kick into full gear and tell you that what is happening to you is not happening to you.

So long, America. It was nice while it lasted. But short of a full scale, second American Revolution, it’s all over.

[Crazy Dave]

1. In the not too distant future...

We will all work for and be forced to shop at Wal-Mart

[Blue Owl]

2. No bangs -- but I'm hearing some mild whimpering

I agree it will be difficult to find a way to overturn this ruling -- and somehow we MUST FIND THAT WAY.

[katmondoo]

3. When Corporations and Religion control a nation it is Fascism

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. Most people tend to overlook the fact that the fascists in Germany

did not gain complete control until after their Supreme Court declared everything they were doing legal.

[brooklynite]

4. So, you'll be leaving then?

Sounds like not much point discussing anything.

[Cyrano]

11. What I've posted here is about as depressing as it gets.

But discussion has not been banned (yet). Do you have any ideas as to how we can get out of the hell into which five crazy people have put us? If so, please share your thoughts with us.

[TheWatcher]

37. And as expected his response is:

I was at least expecting some Copy/Paste Propaganda, a hearty "it doesn't exist", or an ad hominem or two.

Maybe he's still Googling. :)

On Edit after reading further down the thread: "Muddling Through" isn't going to cut it.

If precedents like this are allowed to stand, where does he thinks it stops?

That is dangerous dismissal.

[brooklynite]

43. I'm not saying it's not problematic...

...just that, unlike the OP, I don't believe we're doomed.

and, for good measure, that broad brush demands, like "impeach them all!" which tend to pop up at moments like this, don't help the discussion.

[TheWatcher]

64. Then what do you suggest we do?

We obviously do not have Representative Government any more.

What do we do about this?

[troubledamerican]

55. "So, you'll be leaving then?" See how the

COINTELPRO people shut down your type of dissent: Implied is "Shut UP and don't point out the dire situation".

Rent the movie "The Lives of Others" and watch the future.

[Subdivisions]

13. Nice right-wing thinking there... n/t

[brooklynite]

33. Personally, I think we'll muddle through, as we usually do...

While the ruling is troubling, I don't subscribe to the notion that every corporate entity is going to spend down its money on advertising, that every elected official is going to be give in to threats of advertising, and that the voters are too stupid to see such advertising for what it is. As a consequence, I don't subscribe to the notion that "Democracy died".

[pleah]

5. K&R

http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/hannityinsanity.shtml

[Glorfindel]

6. Recommended - sadly, what you say is all too true

n/t

[Haole Girl]

7. I felt it too.

I'm hoping it's just the winter blues, though.

[omega minimo]

8. Well, there's that

:toast:

[southerncrone]

9. No wimper, but in the future we're sure to see a lot of crying.

Throw in some gnashing of teeth, too.

Part of the super-long-range plan of Repukes; began bearing fruit after 2000 & it continues.....
Keep the peasants down & powerless....they should be OUR servants.
:puke:

We are enslaved. Play by THEIR rules or die. More of their simple math in action.

[rucky]

10. It's only a viable investment for them if they know a seat can be bought.

There has to be law of diminishing returns here at some point - for the money and for the media.

[jotsy]

12. I'm so glad someone said this and silence was not the response.

A kick for saying it better than I.

[abelenkpe]

14. This and the 2000 election

are probably the most demoralizing events in recent history.

[Echo In Light]

16. 'They' were busy beavers prior to that, but yes, that installation was crucial (PNAC)

[Jim Sagle]

15. We pretend because we must.

We pretend because the alternative would license them to literally slaughter us for food.

When I first heard of this decision I was reminded of a quote from Michael Shaara's short story The Sling And The Stone, published in the March 1954 issue of Imagination, a cold war tale of a Russian plan to destroy America by means of an orbiting artificial moonlet slowed down just enough to lose orbit and smash the USA. (Remember, this was 1954.)

The narrator, Diavilev, a Russian scientist who wants no part of this scheme, having just been told of this plan, surveys a room full of boasting, laughing crewmen, and has this sudden thought:

It was clear to him only that this man was not human at all, that none of them were, and that the destruction of civilization was the most inevitable thing that ever was.

And yet we must not surrender. The ship of state has been hulled but if we unite in time it can still be repaired and we can rebuild.

[leftstreet]

17. What kept corporations from buying the politicians before?

:shrug:

[Cyrano]

21. Not much, but there were some rules and restrictions.

They've all been revoked by this latest Supreme Court ruling. And we are at the total mercy of whatever countless of billions of dollars can buy.

[leftstreet]

30. This ruling essentially says they can spend money directly on advertising

from their corporate treasuries

Makes you wonder if our e$teemed elected repre$entative$ are worried some of that dough might pass them by.

[TexasObserver]

18. That's why I think the Supreme Court GOPers must be attacked through all legal avenues.

They now threaten the country, and must be dealt with as the danger they are.

That means investigation of them and their connections to right wing causes and think tanks. It means exposing them for the gifts they take, for the freebies they benefit from while giving "speeches." It means motions to recuse based upon those activities. It means impeaching them. It means removing them by impeachment.

It means expanding the court size and appointing new justices to outvote these guys, and doing it now. We have very little time to deal with this. One election where there's really no rules and foreign capital with run our Capital.

[Cyrano]

31. From your lips to the ears of Obama and congressional Dems.

Unfortunately, I just can't see them doing one damn thing to meet this dire threat to all of us. I hope I'm wrong.

As far as expanding the Court to counter these lunatics, FDR tried doing exactly that. And he got shot down.

[rem3006]

20. We can either whine or

work. I prefer to work at funding my causes and getting other like minded people to do the same. It's called common interest. Corporations and labor unions are nothing more than a collection of people with the same interest and they have the same rights as other interest groups to speak in the same fashions. There is no difference in AT&T's stock holders rights and the rights of those who support the Sierra Club or the rights of free speach of union members. Thats all the court said and I'm glad they said it. I don't have to like what they say. I can hate what they say, But thats not the point. The point is that they have the right to say it. Rights are for ALL not just SOME. Give to the causes you support and give till it hurts but never take the others guys rights away so only your voice is heard. That is what facism really is.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Greyhound]

25. Corporations and Labor Unions are not equivalent in any important way.

And your post indicates that you have not thought very deeply about this issue.

Corporations (or unions for that matter) are not "guys", they are not thinking beings, and if they were, they would be institutionalized as dangerous psychopaths. Every publicly traded corporation has only one goal, maximizing shareholder returns, there are no other considerations, EOF.

[rem3006]

32. You are correct

about profit motive. The share holders are concerned about profit, The union members are concerned about wages, work rules and benefits. Environmentalists are concerned about the environment. Lots of etceteras can be added. But the fact remains that they act as a group to advocate for what is important to them. It doesn't have to be important to you and I to merit the freedom to speak. Who is the arbitor of who has freedoms and does not? I was personally offended by Rev. Wright useing the terms "Honky", "Whitey" and "Cracker" but I would fight for his right to use them and would never try to silence him. That is where those with other ideas are responsible for presenting their ideas in counter his. Whether or not I'm offended idn't of importance. The NRA and the Brady campaign are both organizations that raise money to present the point of view of like minded people with similar interests. Should one be silenced? Who decides that? Government should not be in the business of silencing others. Remember that control of government changes and you can go from being the silencer to the silenced in just one election.

[Greyhound]

54. Why do you continue to try to draw a comparison between publicly traded for-profit corporations

and other organizations, and then re-frame the debate based on that false premise?

Labor unions, the NRA, the Brady Campaign, Right to Life, etc., are all member-driven, run by democratically elected representatives, and organized around an issue or constituency (Rev. Wright is an individual and so has no place at all in this). The NRA has no interest in a UAW contract dispute and no reason to interfere, General Electric has interest in everything (Combined with virtually unlimited resources). Corporations are run by fiat and the decision makers are not subject of the (common) stockholders wishes beyond profits (Dodge v. Ford).

Corporations are not people, they are not citizens, they have no vote, and must be continually constrained/restrained for the common good.

[earth mom]

23. Congress & Obama will NOT try to stop it either because it's in their best interests.

:puke:

:grr:

[patrice]

27. So, you're saying that what he said in SOTU is a lie?

[earth mom]

28. You tell me. nt

[patrice]

57. I'm not about to do that. But I would like to examine this whole question of "Honesty".

Since you bring it up: That's a question that applies to everyone, so it's healthy for All, present poster included, to consider.

Real Freedom and, hence, Revolution cannot begin without Real Self Critique, because it is that critique that empowers critical analysis of everything and everyone else.

First premise: There ARE different kinds of liars, some of whom ((myself included)) are consciously aware of their own dishonesty (and have VARIOUS reasons for it) and others who are not conscious and still others who are mostly just mistaken.

Second premise: At some point in the process(es), it serves the goal(s) to differentiate what kind of liar your are, or what kind of liar you are dealing with and at other points it doesn't serve the goal(s).

Third premise: In most cases, absolutes only create legitimate, though often minuscule and mostly irrelevant, grounds for counter-arguments. Nothing is 100% anything and being able to recognize when and under what conditions something is or isn't what we say/think it is is obscured by treating it as though it were 100% _____________ and such obfuscations impede goal(s). Therefore, it would be helpful to agree upon some convention for referring to what it is that is meant by common expressions such as "mostly" (e.g. above where I said "still others who are mostly just mistaken", i.e. how much mistake? how much non-mistake/correct?) and for using other qualifications that may be more accurate, and hence useful, than blanket prejudices in dealing with those around us.

If "we" can agree upon these premises and since Honesty is the topic at this point in this thread: I would like to address the following questions:

How do we figure out who is what kind of liar?

How do we identify and share where "we" are, at what point, in which process, in service to what goal(s)?

What are the various reasons for honesty:dishonesty and how do "we" share them?

[TheWatcher]

38. If Actions do not mirror words, then what do you call it?

If someone stabs you in the heart multiple times, but smiles and tells you how much he loves you and wants to take care of you while he's doing it, what are you going to believe?

That he really means what he says, or he's killing you in cold blood?

[patrice]

59. A couple of the most reliable statements produced by Social Psychology:

When tested, you are quite likely to find more often than not:

1. When describing or explaining the shortcomings of others, most people will ascribe the other person's shortcomings as being due to permanent and intrinsic personal flaws. When describing or explaining one's own shortcomings, most people will ascribe their own shortcomings as being transient and external situational flaws.

2. Because it is likely that most people usually make the mistake (or lie) referred to in #1. above, (you are quite right), their actions do not match their professed attitudes.

Not knowing enough of the intimate identity of the person in question and not knowing enough about the situational factors that should be considered, I prefer to take my stand at 50:50 at this point in the process and despite common "wisdom", that's not as easy as some people want you to think it is. Though 50:50 is often easily claimed dishonestly as the moderate or independent view, in truth it is quite difficult to maintain equal validity and reliability for two "opposed" perspectives, because it requires CONSTANT and TERRIBLY un-PC testing of BOTH sides of the equation.

To be honest, I AM hoping for a little more testing of BOTH sides of the equation than we've been seeing and not just the President doing that testing either. We need to see some of these fucking chicken-shit congress critters to show us why we should give a good goddamn about them too.

[patrice]

24. Not just "murdered freedoms" but outright human DEATHS that would not occur had this

decision not been what it is - these un-necessary deaths WILL occur.

Just like the last time these Royal 5 stepped over the line in 2000 and DEATH, outright, concrete, real deaths of millions, in at least one War of Choice, enabled by Bush v. Gore, deaths that VERY likely would not have occurred had that decision gone the other way, we can absolutely expect the same thing from this current decision.

And when it all comes down to that point in the future, it will be just like the last time, almost everyone will say "Oh, it's unavoidable. We must do our patriotic duty and kill ___________________ (whomever the Economic Royalists and their Mercenary MIC have chosen). It's regretable, but necessary and we proove our strength and values and faith by committing to this and we will be a better people for doing it, etc. etc. etc."

All of it will make so much "sense" to so many and the inevitable truth is that this is really self-loathing suicide rationalized into genocide dressed up as "National Defense".

[patrice]

26. The important point about what you said is that the buying of offices will NOT appear to be what it

is, even to the candidates on the auction block.

NEVER underestimate anyone's capacity to lie to themselves soooooooo completely that they don't even know that they are lying to themselves. Cases in point: GWB, Bill Clinton, others . . . .

All of the factors are collected, analyzed, synthesized, processed, hypothesized, judged, extrapolated etc. etc. etc. and, then, the conclusion/decision is formed and it can STILL very easily be a perversion of the facts derived from biases that are the foundation for the whole process. Read Thomas R. Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions - to get at what I'm talking about here.

That's the scariest things about all of it. It CAN be completely insane and "no one" (or at least no one with the power to do anything substantive about it) would know it is insane, because almost anything can be made to look rational.

[PufPuf23]

66. Nice posts Patrice. Insightful. All should read, nt

[hfojvt]

29. I am getting a strange sense

of deja vu

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Cyrano/122

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Cyrano/84

How can it have died just last week when we were already "all slaves" back in last October and we were all 'good Germans' many years ago.

Does this have something to do with a coward dying a thousand deaths?

[Cyrano]

35. Wow, I'm impressed, hfojvt. Maybe even flattered.

You're paying more attention to what I've written than I do.

Anyhow, don't bother looking for consistency. I write whatever creeps into my mind at any given moment. I'm consistent in my values, but not in my beliefs of what tomorrow may bring or what it means.

[cherokeeprogressive]

39. Did you just render this whole thread meaningless? n/t

[TheWatcher]

41. Now Cyrano, you give him credit where credit is due, too. Let's be fair.

He's VERY consistent in his denial. :)

[hfojvt]

51. couldn't you have spiced that up with a quote?

http://www.bartelby.com/100/420.47.html

But at some point, a denier should have more credibility than a guy on the street with a sign that says "the end is near".

Of course, I am still waiting for Hal Lindsey to be discredited.

Then again, I still think that Paul Ehrlich and the Club of Rome were right.

[TheWatcher]

63. Could youhave spiced that up with some substance?

But at some point, a denier should have more credibility than a guy on the street with a sign that says "the end is near".

Why don't you tell that to all the people who perished in Germany in the 1930's and 1940's during the last great period of Superior Indifference and Denial. I'm sure they will find some common ground with you. :eyes:

And no, that wasn't the end of the world, but it was a good example of what can happen when terminal denial enables monsters to do whatever they damn well please.

[hfojvt]

68. ach, a Nazi analogy

as if the Holocaust and WWII only happened in Deutschland because of indifference and denial from the majority of Germans.

I spent the first six months of my time on DU using a quote from Erich Ludendorf.

That was aimed at Bush voters, so many Americans who re-elected Bush. Of course it was that election which ultimately gave us Roberts and Alito, both of whom I fought against.

Of course it was Nader who said "I don't care" if Bush is elected. I was not the indifferent one.

We still have many DUers proclaiming that it does not matter if Obama is re-elected and that we are not even gonna vote for the 'lesser of two evils' becuase of the Supreme Court.

Ultimately, it is one thing to post every six months that "we need to fight these fascists". It's another thing to post every six months that "the fascists have already won".

[TheWatcher]

69. It was not the sole reason, but it certainly played a major part.

To dismiss that is foolish.

These bastards only have the power and control WE allow them to have. I think most of the American people have completely forgotten that.

I'm NO fan of Nader, who I see as nothing more than a useful tool, but maybe he alluded to something you can't see, or simply don't want to.

And that is that perhaps it doesn't matter in a sense that NEITHER party is representing the interests of the people. NEITHER Side is on OUR Side.

It's a false left/right paradigm. Theater. Nothing more. You can see one side of the coin, because the Republicans make it obvious who they are. But you are ignoring the other side.

Americans are in terminal denial of what is really going on around them.

You say "It can't happen here."

I say "It HAS Happened Here."

And that, is where this conversation ends.

You mean well hfojvt, but you might take off the blinders once in awhile and see that while "doom" is certainly not a certainty for what is left of this country, nor has it gone beyond the point of no return, we ignore the path we are being taken down at our peril.

And as far as Ignorance, willful or otherwise, this country has got to be one of the most blissfully happy places in the world right now.

Insult and mock people like me all you want. It doesn't impress me, and it does not change reality or the underlying consequences that will result from ignoring it. I'M not your enemy.

Good Day.

[hfojvt]

72. I didn't say that it couldn't

I said that it hasn't yet.

Also, I am not looking at you as an enemy. It seems to be the other way around.

But you seem to have abandoned the Democratics Party. Meaning what? You are hoping for a third party? A revolution? A national strike? Giving up and proclaiming doom?

Then we are not allies. My strategy is to nominate more progressive Democrats and to elect more Democrats. Providing factual information to larger numbers of people is helpful as well. Statements of doom, though, are neither informative nor inspirational.

[hfojvt]

49. nah, the first one I remembered

the second I searched for in your journal archives, thinking something like it would be there. Doom is declared on DU on a fairly regular basis.

I was more impressed by entries like this

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Cyrano/110

Since in that one you did not attack the entire country or declare that we are all doomed. Lately it seems that DU hates Democrats more than it hates Republicans.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Cyrano/106

That was nice too, and shows that the honeymoon ended real early for Obama on DU.

I think it is better to talk about what HAS happened rather than trying to predict the future. I don't think predictions of doom are very helpful in inspiring and energizing the left. My own life has been pretty good, in spite of poverty and I expect the future to be mostly okay as well.

[Cyrano]

52. hfojvt, please listen to me.

There is no human being alive who has not contradicted himself or herself.

Most human beings have basic beliefs from which they rarely deviate.

Most human beings have uttered words that seem to differ from their basic convictions under a given set of circumstances.

Most human beings are fallible.

Most human beings don't spend their time researching the fallibilities of other human beings.

I am not trying to insult you, or put you down in any way.

But, if I may, I would be pleased if you would listen to a bit of advice that I have recently followed myself, and has helped me immensely. And it is advice that I would hope that many reading this post would follow.

Turn off your computer for a while. Pick up a few books that you read in the past and that you loved. Read them again.

I have done exactly this over the past few weeks. Yeah, I've turned on my computer occasionally and even made a few posts.

But whenever I was doing something else, I couldn't wait to get back to my books. The joy of sitting alone, turning off the phone, not answering the door, and just becoming absorbed in meaningful words and ideas was ... exhilarating.

So many of us get hooked on this "drug" called "being online." It's habit forming and it can be dangerous to human mental and physical health.

Do yourself a favor and take a break from this "addiction." I have. And I feel far better for having done so.

[PufPuf23]

65. More like a hero with a thousand faces

Thank you Dr. Campbell

Boiling frogs for fascism, we are.

[blueworld]

34. That won't ever be true, in my belief, but ...

I do worry about what will happen between "here" and "there". I don't go to church, I don't wear any religion on my sleeve, but I am spiritual & I am a Christian. I have experienced a few genuine miracles in my life. I don't believe we need to run scared as (ironically) the church-going fundies do. Keep the faith, Cyrano.

America is ALL the people, not just 5 fat cats in funny robes waddling around DC. The only thing that concerns me is how much the innocent/helpless/poor will suffer before we get mad enough to seriously kick some ass (figuratively speaking).

Gandalf said despair is for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We don't. Grieve, be disappointed, then get angry & keep writing. We will win in the long haul. I promise:)

[Cyrano]

36. Thanks for the positive thoughts, blueworld. You've brought some

brightness into my current valley of despair.

[treestar]

40. Ridiculous

We don't need huge amounts of money to get involved and to count. There's only so much they can do with just $$.

This sells us all down the river as just too stupid to live.

We have the vote and together we have more money than they have left over for campaign contributions.

Maybe it's not good, but saying the country died by it is hyperbole of the most hysterical kind.

[Cyrano]

47. Hey, it happens occassionally.

Actually, I'm not rolling on the floor, frothing at the mouth and speaking in tongues. My bouts of "hysteria" don't take that form.

But if you really believe we can outspend the corporations, or even compete with their propaganda echo chamber, then you're in deep denial.

[whistler162]

42. And now for our weekly OH GOD OH GOD IT IS ALL OVER

session!

Thank you your mindless panic has been duly noted.

[Cyrano]

48. Panic? Nah, it's more like deep concern for the future. Mindless?

Having a strongly held opinion doesn't necessarily bring the term "mindless" to mind (yeah, weak pun intended).

But that aside, what if I'm right and you're wrong? Do I then get to say that you mindlessly walked into a dark, foreboding place?

On edit: The last time five Supreme Court justices pulled off something like this, we ended up with eight horrible years that put us into our current situation. They gave us a man who, not only shouldn't have had his finger on "The Button," (Dick Cheney), but also gave us an imbecile who was Cheney's front man and got to play "dress up" and "make believe" while occupying the White House.

[troubledamerican]

56. And your "mindless" smear has been duly noted.

[Greyhound]

62. Does it not disturb you that there are events that can provoke such reactions occurring

with such regularity? Perhaps you've become desensitized to insanity?

[TheWatcher]

70. Your blind faith has been noted as well.

What type of grass would you prefer this week?

I have a Graze Menu available if you need it.

[Fire1]

44. I know that! Why do you think I'm moving? Getting my ducks

in a row as we speak!

[11 Bravo]

45. I prefer to stay and fight, but see ya.

[librechik]

46. we don't know we're dead yet. Wait til 2012--the mangled corpse will really stink by then

[Hekate]

50. Got it. Just take the "WE" out of "Yes we can" and the "US" out of USA.

The POTUS tells Congress he's not quitting -- but you definitely are, as are many in this thread?

Fine, guys. You be sure and let the rest of us know when you find the perfect country with the perfect government, especially after you've been there awhile and the "new" wears off.

Some of us here at home will be getting our hands dirty trying to clean up the corrupt mess the Bushes left behind, and one of those unafraid to roll up his sleeves is President Obama. He's still urging us to remember the "WE" in "Yes we can" because there's only one of him and millions of us.

Hekate

[Cyrano]

53. I don't think anyone here is looking for a "perfect country, " or a

"perfect government."

I, personally, would settle for an adequate, uncorrupt government. But then, I'm probably asking for too much.

Everyone here knows we're living in a barrel of crap that was created by Bush/Cheney. I am certainly not accusing Obama of having put us where we are.

But, having said that, I don't believe that Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Vishnu, or Obama, can pull us out of the ocean of shit in which we're drowning.

So perhaps you can give the rest of us your blueprint for cleaning up the mess we're in. Hope is one thing and self-delusion is another.

If you, or whoever, has the answer of how to fix a country as badly broken as ours, please share it with us. We'll join you in "rolling up sleeves," and "getting hands dirty." But exactly what is it we're supposed to do with our bared arms and gritty fingernails?

I'm not trying to be insulting, or to mock your spirit. But I am looking for some iota of reality. How do we go about fixing anything when the entire deck has been stacked against us, from the Supreme Court on down to some first term congressperson who wants a second term more than anything else?

How do we start to fix anything when most of those in power are interested only in their own political survival?

[Robb]

58. Perhaps this graphic will assist you:

The Death of Democracy

[Cyrano]

60. Reality always lags behind the "news" by a few years.

However, the graph is built on the assumption that we live in a democracy. If we do, how come we don't have universal health care?

How come the media is the propaganda arm of the Republican Party?

How come the war criminals of the past eight years aren't in the Hague?

How come Dick Cheney can shoot someone in the face, but we can't?

How come Wall Street criminals are again rewarding themselves with billions?

How come ... Oh, hell. You get the idea. Democracy? I can think of many terms for our current system. But democracy isn't one of them.

[Yurovsky]

61. I don't think it's dead yet, but if ...

President Obama doesn't get tough in dealing with the GOP, it may be. The longer the GOP stymies solutions, the more the soft middle of the nation gets impatient with Democrats in general and hands the keys back to the Right. And the next time they get the keys, they're not just going to run it into the ditch, they're going to take it to a chop shop and completely destroy it.

There's still hope, and there's still time, but Obama has to quit playing nice with these bastards.

[winyanstaz]

67. R.I.P. American freedom and democracy......

"So long, America. It was nice while it lasted. But short of a full scale, second American Revolution, it’s all over."

It breaks my heart but I have to agree with you..it is over. It is over and hardly anyone noticed.

I just don't see a second American Revolution happening..we are now a fascist nation and doomed to fall further into slavery.

Take care of each other on an individual bases as best as we can...that is about all we can do now.

[L0oniX]

71. It was already about dead. What you heard was a final death throe.