Arne Duncan called Hurricane Katrina "the best thing that happened to the education system in NOLA

[Are_grits_groceries]

Education Secretary Arne Duncan: Hurricane Katrina helped New Orleans schools

Education Secretary Arne Duncan called Hurricane Katrina "the best thing that happened to the education system in New Orleans" because it forced the community to take steps to improve low-performing public schools, according to excerpts from the transcript of a television interview made public Friday afternoon.

The excerpts, e-mailed to reporters, quoted Duncan as giving an evaluation of the impact of the 2005 hurricane on the city's schools.

"This is a tough thing to say, but let me be really honest," Duncan was quoted as saying. "I think the best thing that happened to the education system in New Orleans was Hurricane Katrina. That e- -- education system was a disaster, and it took Hurricane Katrina to wake up the community to say that 'We have to do better.' And the progress that they've made in four years since the hurricane is unbelievable. They have a chance to create a phenomenal school district. Long way to go, but that -- that city was not serious about its education. Those children were being desperately underserved prior, and the amount of progress and the amount of reform we've seen in a short amount of time has been absolutely amazing."

Education Department spokeswoman Sandra Abrevaya had no immediate comment.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/29/AR2010012903259.html?hpid=topnews

Heckuva job Arne! Just STFU! He has no clue about the trauma that occurred and is still occurring because of Katrina. He needs to just go away!

[Jim Sagle]

1. Heckuva job, Arne.

:puke:

[omega minimo]

50. +1,000,000

[LisaM]

2. By that logic, the kids in Haiti are really lucky.

I don't like Arne Duncan, I think he was a terrible choice. He's pro charter schools and anti-teacher. Given his attitude about Katrina, perhaps he should hang out with Barbara Bush - who had a NERVE to go sit in the Superdome last week.

[pscot]

3. Maybe the Prez will have to fire

his sorry ass. That would be a shame.

[Leopolds Ghost]

154. Why am I not surprised? The Obama admin feels the same way about NOLA Public Housing

Obama's made it his quest to demolish every last unit of public housing in New Orleans.

Apparently his experience as a community organizer taught him that those people would be better off living somewhere else, in Houston perhaps.

If Bush's Ed Sec had said this he might HAVE been forced to fire him
(but only after much protest, of course.)

Aw, who am I kidding -- most Americans agree with this guy and HATE New Orleans inner city residents. They have nothing but animosity for "those people" and want to take every measure possible to "remake" New Orleans.

[madrchsod]

4. maybe this will force obama to get rid of this loser

he`s did nothing for the chicago school system. both the public schools and charter schools have`t shown any real gains during and after his leadership.

[JetCityLiberal]

31. I hope so too madrchsod

Public schools deserve better than this guy.

Paul

[Jakes Progress]

5. The worst.

Obama has saddled himself with more than one dud. But arne has the makings of the worst for him and for the country.

[Are_grits_groceries]

6. Hurricane Hugo

didn't do a thing for SC schools. Then again, I'm not up on this new theory of how to fix education.

[leftstreet]

7. He should get together with Babs Bush

[laughingliberal]

62. That was my first thought when I saw that headline. nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. He's a complete ass. nt

[fascisthunter]

9. I'll Never Forget How the GOP and Bush Admin Let that city Drown

and used the destruction as an excuse to get rid of the poor population down there so that developers could finally get what they wanted all along.

[KamaAina]

10. Translation: It left a void quickly filled by for-profit charter operators

Charters (both for-profit and otherwise; Univ. of New Orleans runs a cluster, for instance) are now the dominant form of public education in NOLA. It's reached the point where competing charters send recruiters down to Wal-Mart (the very one whose gun department was looted during the Federal Flood) to try and sign up more parents. :eyes:

And what's left of the public education system, run by the state of La. as the "Recovery School District", is left with the hardest-to-educate students, such as those with disabilities.

[rudy23]

11. I had a feeling that between the Super Bowl and Haiti, we'd have to relive a lot of this shit.

Wish I hadn't been right.

[QC]

12. If a Repulican had said this, DU would have crashed by now

because of all the thousands and thousands of indignant posts.

But Arne said it, so it's no biggie.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. +1

[Starry Messenger]

22. There are probably people here now who agree with him.

The "education reform" wars are going to be bloody.

[Leopolds Ghost]

155. There were at the time, sadly. I remember trying to find DUers upset at what Dems were saying about

tearing down all the public housing, closing and privatizing the public schools, demolishing New Orleans only public hospital (all symbols of the early New Deal), prosecuting the (Democratically controlled, but Bobby Jindal affiliated!) Gretna police department, and giving New Orleans residents the right to return, and got nothing but hostile responses.

When I did a poll, 50% of DUers agreed with me that we shouldn't tear down all of New Orleans public housing,

but we were the silent (bare) majority on a "left wing" discussion group.

[KamaAina]

24. A repuke did say something similar, but about housing, not education

Former Rep. Richard Baker (R-Major-League Asshole) from Baton Rouge said, in public, for the record, "We couldn't do anything about public housing in New Orleans, but God did."

And this is different how, exactly? Because Duncan has a sweet jump shot? :sarcasm:

[Starry Messenger]

13. What a swine.

Yeah, I'm sure all those now homeless kids are so grateful.

[Dinger]

14. arne is a fucking pig

That is all.

[niyad]

15. I thought for sure this was from the Onion--would that it were. how is it possible this man is so

completely clueless, without one iota of empathy or compassion for the devastation of katrina?

is he actually a republican--another of obama's bipartisan, reach-across-the aisle appointments? because, if he is a dem, he needs to change his registration immediately.

[tonysam]

16. What a barfass

Duncan is absolute scum.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. OMG this man is monstrously awful

:mad:

[LeftishBrit]

19. Has he been spending too much time around Barbara Bush?

[tonysam]

20. Words cannot describe just how bad this guy is. He needs to step down.

His remarks are almost as bad as Michelle Rhee's stupid, slanderous remarks about the 266 teachers she wrongfully terminated.

[noamnety]

21. beyond f'd up

we need a new word for that one.

[tnlefty]

23. Who was the Repug Rep. who got into hot water for stating

something like, Katrina was the best thing that could've happened because now they could get rid of the housing projects? I don't remember the exact quote right now, nor his name, but isn't this statement from Duncan almost on par with that?

He needs to be fired and run out of DC and needs to stay the hell away from anything dealing with public education. :puke:

[KamaAina]

105. Rep. Richard Baker (R-Douchebag)

said, "We couldn't do anything about public housing in New Orleans, but God did". :grr:

We don't have him to kick around anymore; he retired shortly after that. Hopefully Duncan will follow his example.

[hack89]

25. Are the schools better now? nt

[mzteris]

27. why, yes. Yes they are.

Which is the whole point of what he was saying.

jeesh - some people just like to get themselves worked up over nothing just to be pissed off about something.

[waiting for hope]

67. How in the hell do you know?

Do you live in New Orleans? I have two nieces and one nephew (and about a half dozen second cousins)and an aunt that teaches in the NOLA system. I talk to their parents and I know that there is very little difference in what the Public School system was prior and what this monstrosity is offering - they are discouraging kids with disadvantages, not even providing Special Education services at all the locations and when they are, it's not enough - like I said, how in the hell do you know? Jeesh ... some people just like to be a cheerleader for charter schools for no apparent reason than their own, isolated experience.

[mzteris]

81. the evidence shows it clearly

Orleans Parish school performance scores continue to improve; View the scores
By Sarah Carr, The Times-Picayune
October 14, 2009, 7:00AM

School performance across New Orleans is continuing to improve steadily, with the percentage of city schools in the academically unacceptable category decreasing during the past year, according to data released Tuesday by the state.

All told, about 42 percent of the city's public schools are now considered academically unacceptable, compared with about 45 percent last year, and about 63 percent before Katrina.

A significant majority of the city's charter schools -- publicly funded, but independently run -- scored high enough to avoid the failing label, while most of the city's traditional schools that are part of the state-run Recovery School District remain in the failing category.

The district's high schools posted the most dismal results in the city, although the elementary schools performed far better, with schools like Drew in the 9th Ward posting strong gains. Many of the district's elementary schools are within striking distance of a passing mark.

. . . Last year, the score would have been about 66.4, while this year it would be 70.6, a jump of about 6 percent. In the year before Katrina, the district performance score for the city's schools was 56.9 -- meaning the overall score has jumped 24 percent since then. The district performance score was improving before Katrina as well.


********

The performance of school districts in Louisiana is measured by a district performance score.
The district performance score (DPS) sums up the performance of students in a school district on a variety of state standardized tests and a few other indicators, like attendance, into a single number. If schools in New Orleans were still in one district, their district performance score would be 66.4 for the 2007-2008 school year. While this is low compared to the state performance score of 86.3, this represents a significant increase of nearly 10 points from the district’s pre-Katrina score of 56.9 in the 2004-2005 school year.

To put this 10-point increase into perspective, New Orleans public schools also improved by about 10 points in the three years between 2002 and 2005; however, no major disaster occurred during that period. Indeed, considering that many students came back to the city after Katrina having spent time out of school and suffering from the trauma of displacement, this increase in overall performance is promising.

. . . Consequently, though the district performance score (DPS) of the entire district if it still existed would have been 66.4, the RSD’s score was 51.4 while the OPSB scored 96.1.

http://www.tulane.edu/cowen_institute/documents/2009SPENOAddendumExecSummary.pdf


*****
. . .Certain facts are clear: There have been enormous changes as a result of Katrina.

. . . New Orleans remains one of the lowest-performing parishes in Louisiana in terms of student achievement on
standardized tests. As mentioned previously, all public school operators in New Orleans have a high number
of at-risk students, based on their eligibility for free and reduced lunch. The challenges of educating at-risk
students were demonstrated by the Recovery School District’s (RSD) analysis of its fall 2007 incoming class,
which showed that 85 percent of students are two or more years below grade level.62 The relative baseline and
context of each district—as well as each school—needs to be considered when making comparisons based on
student achievement.


One-on-one interviews:
■ Th irty out of 80 public school principals were interviewed
with help from students at the Harvard Business
School.
■ More than 20 additional interviews were conducted
with elected offi cials, school district leaders, leaders of
education nonprofi ts, charter board members, and other
community leaders involved with public education.
■ Th e interviews were based on a standardized set of openended
questions that left substantial opportunity for
further discussion of ideas and thoughts.

Focus groups:
■ Eleven focus groups were conducted with teachers from
a wide variety of school operators. Th e only type of
school not represented in the teacher focus groups was
Louisiana Board of Elementary and Secondary Education
(BESE) charters.
■ Th irteen focus groups were conducted with public
school students from a variety of operators. Th e only
type of school not represented in the student focus
groups was BESE charters.
■ Two focus groups were conducted with school principals
and assistant principals.
■ One focus group was conducted with neighborhood
association leaders involved in public education.
■ Focus groups generally included six to 12 individuals
with a moderator and a note-taker. For improved
standardization, only four moderators were used across
all focus groups.

v

http://www.tulane.edu/cowen_institute/documents/080417SPENOReportFINAL.pdf

[waiting for hope]

112. You clearly have an agenda - I have never seen you

post outside of any charter school education posts. I have relatives and friends that live in New Orleans and they tell a different story - you are spouting numbers from a charter school cheerleader, Scott Cowen (Tulane institute is a charter school hotbed) and it has been shown that they are projecting false data:

New Orleans's Children Fighting for the Right to Learn

The New Orleans Teachers Report complained that “Proponents of the New Orleans takeover experiment created the false impression that the hurricane forced the state takeover or that a fair and uniform accountability system led to the state’s action.

In fact, the state changed the rules and targeted New Orleans schools in an attempt to convert all schools to charter status, not just the failing ones. Most charter schools are pre-existing schools that were converted to charter status. After the mass charter school conversions in the three months following Katrina, the RSD…authorized only three more charters….Of the 12 schools, the operation of all but three have been given to providers who are based out of state.”

Many foundations are contributing large sums of money to the experiment.

For example, the Laura Bush Foundation has generously donated millions of dollars to rebuild school libraries in schools along the gulf coast. Her foundation has given tens of thousands of dollars in grants to rebuild the libraries of 13 schools in New Orleans – 8 of which are charter schools and 5 are private catholic schools. Not one is a RSD regular public school.

~Snip~

Some of the top tier public schools have explicit selective enrollment policies which screen out children with academic problems. Most of the remaining charters are technically supposed to be open enrollment schools but require pre-application essays, parental-involvement requirements and specific behavior contracts – allowing these charter schools the flexibility to “manage” their incoming classes, rather than having to accept every student who applies. At nine schools, traditional public school transportation is not even provided, further limiting the choices.

A look at Algiers charter school association (ACSA) website illustrates how schools in the top half operate.

Financially, the ACSA budget reports expenditures of $27 million in 2006-2007, leaving an apparent surplus of $11 million. For 2005-2006, the ACSA was given $2.5 million from Orleans Parish School Board ($500 per student over and above their regular funding), a $6 million federal charter school grant, plus the state minimum foundation funds.

The numbers you are posting are not a true reflection of Pre-Katrina vs. Post-Katrina. In other words, FAIL.

[Catshrink]

134. Thank you for posting.

You are so right on -- on all your points.

[waiting for hope]

143. Thank you - but sadly it got ignored ..

Guess I'm missing those wal-mart inspired critical thinking skills! :rofl:

[mzteris]

137. well, guess you're not widely read, then

I post about a lot of things. Including that other horrid thing - gasp! - HOMESCHOOL!! OH NOoooooooooooooooeeeeeeeeessssss!!

I support traditional public schools, etc etc etc - go find my posts and actually read them why doncha?

I think the test scores are test scores - regardless of who's positing them. I didn't know Scott was a "charter school cheerleader" - if I thought it'd make a diddlydamn worth of difference, I'd go find other facts and figures but you'd find some excuse to dismiss them because you don't like them.

The fact remains - whether your particular family members are benefitting or not - the schools in NO were a cesspool before Katrina and they are much much better no.

[waiting for hope]

142. You are aware that there is a conflict of

interest when the biggest proponent of the charter school system is doing the study? That is akin to having Shell/Exxon/BP and Citgo doing a study on Climate Change and the effects of burning fossil fuels .. doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how that report would read - I seem to remember that you were slamming others for not having critical thinking skills. When you have a program that systematically picks those they deem "desirable" and discards the rest, then I will repeat what I said earlier: "The numbers you are posting are not a true reflection of Pre-Katrina vs. Post-Katrina. In other words, FAIL." You obviously didn't read what I posted,

These schools have been given tens of millions of dollars by the federal government in extra money, over and above their regular state and local money, to set up and operate. These special public schools are not open to every child and do not allow every student who wants to attend to enroll. Some charter schools have special selective academic criteria which allow them to exclude children in need of special academic help. Other charter schools have special admission policies and student and parental requirements which effectively screen out many children. The children in this half of the experiment are taught by accredited teachers in manageable size classes. There are no overcrowded classes because these charter schools have enrollment caps allowing them to turn away students. These schools also educate far fewer students with academic or emotional disabilities. Children in charter schools are in better facilities than the other half of the children. These schools are getting special grants from Laura Bush to rebuild their libraries and grants from other foundations to help them educate. These schools do educate some white children along with African-American children. These are public schools, but they are not available to all public school students.

New Orleans's Children Fighting for the Right to Learn

Saving Public Schools, Tulane Style

The period following Hurricane Katrina witnessed the near-total dismantling of the public school educational structure in New Orleans, with selective rebuilding of schools in more affluent neighborhoods, marginalization of the teacher's union, and the growth of independent, individually-chartered schools. The majority of public schools were treated as discards and assigned to the state's "Recovery School District," to be run by the Louisiana Department of Education, a potential source of future income for Tulane's new institute. During the post-Katrina period, Tulane University President Scott S. Cowen, chairman of the Educational Task Force of Mayor Ray Nagin's Bring New Orleans Back Commission, was empowered to shape the redevelopment of K-12 public education in New Orleans. However, his attention was focused on Lusher School, which serves the children of the Uptown and university communities. Tulane's self-congratulatory posturing over non-existent success in rescuing New Orleans' public school education represents hubris that is matched only by the gullibility of its target audience. Its hypocrisy on this issue is as thick and sweet as New Orleans bread pudding, and just as seductive. The notable absence of a teacher education program at Tulane is a continuing policy reaffirmed by Cowen <4>. A possible factor behind this policy is that teachers tend not to become wealthy alumni. Unfortunately, the lack of education graduates has forced area recruiters to travel as far as the Philippines to find teachers for the children of neighboring parishes <5>.


~Snip~

Before the storm and displacement, New Orleans had 128 public schools, 4,000 teachers and 60,000 students. The system was widely regarded as in crisis. Three quarters of eighth-graders failed to score at the basic level on state English assessments. In some schools, JROTC, the high school military recruiting program, was a mandatory class, mostly because funding wasn't available for other programs. Ten school superintendents in ten years had been fired or quit. Many parents, especially white parents, had pulled their kids out of the system, almost half of the city's students were enrolled in private schools and parochial schools. Advocates accused the most underfunded schools of functioning as little more than a warehousing program for Black youth.

While the city's private schools saw almost 90% of their students return, public school enrollment is at fewer than 25,000, less than half the previous levels. For those that have returned, they are attending a system completely different from the one they left, what some have referred to as a grand experiment in school reform, with more than 30 out of the 53 schools open this fall transformed into charter schools.

In other words, it has become a system that now consists of a majority of publicly-funded schools freed from many of the rules and oversight that previously applied to public schools in the system.

You can prostrate all you want - but the fact remains, there is no comparison to how well the charter school system is doing over the previous one, simple because there isn't the same mix of children:

This makes New Orleans the urban district with by far the highest proportion of publicly funded charter schools in the nation. Dayton, Ohio has the second-highest concentration of charter schools, involving 30 percent of its 17,000 students.

This experiment has resulted in a clearly defined two-tier public school system.

The top tier is made up of the best public and charter public schools, which most children cannot get into, and a number of new and promising charter public schools that are available for the industrious and determined parents of children who do not have academic or emotional disabilities.

The second tier is for the rest of the children. Their education is assigned to the RSD (some are already calling it "The Rest of the School District").

The top half of the schools are the point of this experiment in public charter schools. National charter school advocacy groups are pointing to New Orleans as the experiment that will demonstrate that publicly funded charter schools are superior to public schools.

However, the top half could not work without the bottom half. If the schools in the top half had to accept the students assigned to the second-tier schools, the results of the experiment would obviously turn out quite differently. As the experiment is structured, students in the bottom-half schools will be very useful to compare with the top half to see how well this works.

While some sympathize with the children in the bottom half, little has been done to assist those in the RSD schools.

New Orleans's Children Fighting for the Right to Learn

Once again - FAIL - but I think you already know that, considering you will not look deeper than a few test scores being lauded around like the second coming.

[mzteris]

145. How do you account for the fact that the

RSD Charter schools outperform the RSD non-charter schools?

You really ignore a lot, don't you? For example that the traditional public school system in NO had "selective admissions". That the entire PS system was horrific and criminal. Not just my words, or other Charter proponents, but everyone does. Anyone who says the "schools were good" prior to Katrina, wasn't going to one of the "regular public schools" in NO.

Look at the outcome of the results. You don't want to accept them, I accept that. But you can't just say "ewveryone who supports charters" are lying and "everyone who doesn't support chartgers" are oh=so-=perfect. For goodness sakes! Do you really think there is some sort of CONSPIRACY going on? Really? By EVERY SINGLE PERSON who likes Charter schools?

It really doesn't matter what I post, does it? You'll ignore anything you don't like.

[waiting for hope]

150. Where is your proof that prior to Katrina that

the entire public school system had "selective admissions"? There was a handful that did, but the system as a whole did not. Once again, let me reiterate, the test numbers do not show a true reflection of progress - the RSD Charter schools are being selective in whom they allow in their schools, those they deem "academically inferior" or if the child has a special need, those kids are being turned away and because of this, they attend the RSD non-charter schools. You cannot compare the the pre and post Katrina numbers - can you not understand this?

Despite media reports, public education in New Orleans is not doing better post-Hurricane Katrina. The "experiment" in New Orleans has a plethora of problems, which continue to foster a school district that does not offer an environment for quality education for poor and minority children. To put it in perspective, Louisiana is the only state in the country that allows charter schools to have student admission requirements. With that, the charters in New Orleans are different from other charters across the country, which serve a regular student population, or a group of students who have problems in traditional schools. The charter schools in New Orleans that are, and have been, showcased in the media are those charters schools (magnet schools and/or city-wide access) that serve a student population of academically gifted and talented students.

Post Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans is by and large a two-tier system that offers a quality education to students in selective charter schools (with academic admission requirements) and substandard learning environment for students in non-charter schools. It should be noted that most of the students attending non-charter schools in the Recovery School District and are poor and minority students.

The New Orleans Imperative: Quality Public Education for All Children

I think I do get it - you obviously don't care about the poor and minority students, because if you did, this comment: "That the entire PS system was horrific and criminal." - you would have been interested in the system as a whole, and how it benefited "every" child, not just the ones that the Charter system deems "desirable". And yes, there is a systematic initiative to replace the public school systems with charter - just take into account every post about a charter takeover that you have to post strawmen and defend the premise that charters are better than public systems. What is your response going to be a dozen years down the road that if and when we have a complete charter take over and we are all back to what it is now - it is not about the schools, it's about the families. So many families are broken, so many have parents that work multiple jobs and can not spend the quality time needed with their child in order to help them succeed. It's going to boil down to the same kids, with the same families going to school. And I'd like to shoot this right back at you - "It really doesn't matter what I post, does it? You'll ignore anything you don't like."

[mzteris]

152. are you serious?

"think I do get it - you obviously don't care about the poor and minority students, because if you did, this comment: "That the entire PS system was horrific and criminal." - you would have been interested in the system as a whole, and how it benefited "every" child, not just the ones that the Charter system deems "desirable"."

I said the system was abysmal - how in the H does my POV translate to: "not just the ones that the Charter system deems "desirable"." I would think it absolutely points out that I support those who were getting the shaft PRE-Katrina - and believe me, they aren't the "desirable" ones.


From your own "experts"

"There is no such thing in NCLB as a combined Magnet and Charter school. The problem is that
there are many Magnet schools that are allowed to be called Charter schools in New Orleans.
Louisiana state law allows this combination, which might soon come to other Louisiana
parishes." . . . When New Orleans Charter schools are compared to Charter schools nationally, rarely does the
evaluator know that many of New Orleans Charter schools are selective. (guilty as charged.One district out of the whole country - sorry, I didn't know. BUT - that shouldn't mean that "all charters" are bad and should be banned. It doesn't even necessarily mean that the NO charters are "bad" - I'd have to have more specific info on those. . .)
. . . Only in New Orleans have Magnet schools wrongfully been converted into Charter schools.
http://www.researchonreforms.org/Shared%20Documents/Admission%20Requirements%20and%20Charter%20Schools.pdf

Louisiana is the EXCEPTION to the rule about Charters. However, if you read the link, it explains how and why this happened in more detail. It wasn't a nefarious act by the Legislature, but they - like most people it seems - didn't understand the concept.


And - again from your source -

Spring 2009 LEAP Status of RSD and NOPS Schools: 2014 NCLB Implications
Charles J. Hatfield
Center for Action Research on School Reforms in New Orleans
10/13/2009
The 2009 LEAP scores for 4th and 8th graders showed increases in the overall percent of students scoring at or above the proficiency levels in ELA and Math. However, proficiency levels at many schools still fell far short of meeting or exceeding the 2008‐09, Annual Measureable Objectives. (yes, still falling short - I think I pointed that out before...)

. . . Much publicity has been given to the achievement gains made by the Orleans public schools, especially those in the RSD, on LEAP from 2008 to 2009.. . . 4th Grade Proficiency Levels for 2009 3
Tables 2 and 3 present the number and percent of schools in each management type that met or exceeded the 2008‐09 AMO for the spring of 2009. . . . As can be observed, the performance of all of the NOPS schools, regardless of management type, met or exceeded the AMO for 2009 in both ELA and Math. Ten, or 23% of the RSD schools, met or exceeded the AMO for 2009 in ELA. Thirteen, or 30% of the RSD schools, met or exceeded the AMO for Math. The percent achieving the AMO varied by management type within the RSD for both ELA and Math. The RSD traditional schools, as a group, performed worst than their charter counterparts. See Appendix A for the 2009, 4th grade, LEAP proficiency results and AMO status.

8th Grade Proficiency Levels for 2009
Tables 4 and 5 present similar information for 8th grade. All but two NOPS schools met or exceeded the AMO for 2009 in ELA; and all but one school met or exceeded the 2009 AMO in Math. Six, or 15% of the RSD schools with scores, met or exceeded the AMO for ELA. Nine, or 23% of the RSD schools, met or exceeded the AMO for Math. The percent of schools achieving the AMO also varied by management type within NOPS and the RSD for both ELA and Math. As observed for 4th grade, the RSD traditional schools, as a group, performed worst than their charter counterparts. See Appendix B for 2009, 8th grade, LEAP proficiency results and AMO status.

. . . This report is neither intended to support nor to oppose traditional or charter schools in New Orleans. Of primary concern is whether poor, disadvantaged, public school students of New Orleans are receiving the quality education that they deserve, regardless of LEA and management type. Unfortunately, the only way to effectively measure this, currently, is with test scores. . .

. . . The evaluations must assess achievement results of all management types as a function of equity, admission criteria, school retention criteria, school and classroom discipline, parental commitment, quality of educational programs, costs, quality of teachers, school climate, community support, resources, class size, attendance, student mobility, suspensions and expulsions, grade level retention, number of years that schools have been in operation, etc., to mention a few. It is also imperative that “longitudinal” evaluation studies be conducted to determine to what extent the instructional impact has been sustained over time as students’ progress through the educational system. Without such evaluation data, it will very difficult to empirically determine why some charter schools are working and why others are not with regard to achieving the NCLB goal and the RSD’s mission which is “To provide a superior learning environment in which every student, regardless of ability, attains educational success and graduates with proven skills that will provide them access to quality institutions of higher learning or the workplace.” http://www.researchonreforms.org/Shared%20Documents/RSD%20and%20NOPS%20After%20Four%20Years.pdf

and another (from your source)

Charter schools, both those with and without selection criteria, have a decided advantage
when compared with non-charter schools because of the governance structure. While
each charter school must operate within the context of state law, the charter school’s
governance structure allows for greater flexibility and site-based control

The charter school movement has been successful in changing the governance structure
for the charter schools. However, the governance structure has not changed for the
majority of the schools serving the at-risk students. Now, instead of being governed by
the OPSB, these schools are governed by the RSD. But, this is still central school district
governance. The governance structure, viewed as a key to change, has not changed for
the majority of at-risk schools.

Charter schools, both those with and without selection criteria, have a decided advantage
when compared with non-charter schools because of the governance structure. While
each charter school must operate within the context of state law, the charter school’s
governance structure allows for greater flexibility and site-based control.

One of the greatest advantages of the Schoolwide Program model is that local school site
councils can direct the funds to programs that are desperately needed to provide
enrichment and support for at-risk students to achieve, such as, after-school care, summer
camps, and extended school days. Schools alone cannot transform at-risk students. It
takes a schoolwide, or community approach, wherein at-risk students are provided with
the resources that are available in other neighborhoods.

http://www.researchonreforms.org/Shared%20Documents/Making%20Charter%20Exp%20Work.pdf

*******

I never said the "whole school system had selective admissions" I said some of the schools in that system did. You know the ones where no one darker than a paper bag was allowed to go?

FWIW - if you believe me - I don't think there should be "selective admissions" like you're thinking. Sometimes a particular program structure REQUIRES some type of "selection" - I mean, if you have a school of the arts, don't you think that having a talent/desire to DO that would be important? Or like for the Spanish immersion programs - they seek a equitable balance of native Spanish speakers and non-Spanish speaking students to enroll. This is designed this way for a purpose. So yeah - there are some "set-asides" just for the Hispanic population. Is this a bad thing?


Again, you really do miss my point. I don't think "charters are better that public schools" - I think Charters offer a good viable choice for some people. Some charters are good. Some are bad. Some traditional schools are good. Some are bad. I have said this repeatedly. I am NOT "anti-traditional-public school" - You think that becauseu I'm constantly having to DEFEND charter schools, but that doesn't mean I don't like traditiona public schools.

Many many many charters are developed BECAUSE minorities and poor have no other choices and they're getting the shaft in the traditional school systems (available to them).

Did you know that there is a higher percentage of minorities and students who qualify for free/reduced lunch going to Charters than to traditional public schools?



FYI - My SON is black, so don't accuse me of not being interested in minorities!

[AdHocSolver]

144. If you think scores on standardized tests measure learning, then you know NOTHING about education.

Programs like No Child Left Behind (NCLB) are a total fraud. Teaching to a standardized test does not educate anyone.

As to the focus group studies you mentioned, I have worked in enough universities to question anything coming out of academic studies. Do you honestly believe that these people would be honest in front of their peers and competitors in a highly charged political atmosphere, even assuming that they knew what they were talking about?

Your "evidence" shows nothing except the willingness of some people to accept the results of dubious studies by alleged experts.

I have two college degrees and a certificate in education earned post-degree, and I taught two years in urban schools.

John Holt wrote two books on education that explain the real problems with the educational systems in this country, and it has nothing to do with whether the schools are public, private, religious, charter, or whatever. One book is titled "How Children Fail", and the other is "How children Learn".

In a book review, the commentator writes:
***************
John Holt summarizes perfectly the problem with contemporary education: it emphasizes right answers rather than learning, production rather than thinking. Read this book to understand this problem and its results, as seen through his experience as a collaborative teacher and thoughtful observer. The rewards for "right answers" over thinking even persists at higher education levels. "What would happen at Harvard or Yale if a prof gave a surprise test in March on work covered in October? Everyone knows what would happen; that's why they don't do it."
***************

NCLB and its standardized testing ilk are just more of the same nonsense. Focus groups on education are more of the same fraud. Arne Duncan is a fraud.

[mzteris]

146. I hate standardized testing -

BUT, if you have the same groups taking the same tests in the same area with the same resources, it is going to be somewhat of a measure in general terms.

You're quoting John Holt to me? lol I'm one of the ones who homeschooled around here! See how far you get quoting Holt to these "teachers".

[AdHocSolver]

151. The kinds of standardized testing being used does NOT measure how much learning actually occurred.

Most of the teachers I have known as a student, teacher, and parent were sincere, well-meaning people. Some were even able to surmount the obstacles to good education built into the educational "system" in this country. It is NOT the teachers' fault that U.S. education is so lousy. Learning "failure" is DESIGNED into the system.

The problem is not "bad" teachers and not "bad" students.

The educational system in this country is designed, not to educate, in the sense of producing graduates who can think and function independently, but rather to produce docile, obedient, narrowly trained minions to work in the factories and offices of the corporations.

This system was devised in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries in response to the waves of immigrants and the rapid expansion in industrialization during those periods.

Nowadays, with the large scale offshoring of jobs, and the automation of practically everything (with the intent to eliminate people as much as possible from the economic and social equation), the ruling class in this country has to deflect criticism about the way they are running (ruining) this country away from themselves, and aim it at the masses.

This is what scams like NCLB, standardized testing, and so-called merit pay are all about. This country has an education system that, by design, does not educate the masses. There aren't enough jobs to go around, and what better way to prevent a rebellion than to indoctrinate the masses that they are jobless and being preyed upon because they lack an education which is their own fault, and, moreover, blame "bad" teachers for it.

Telling people to retrain themselves for the new, "green" technology is likewise a fraud. By the time people are trained, or retrained, in the new technologies, those jobs will be offshored as well.

The arguments about which schools are better, public schools, charter schools or private schools, is all a fraud. There is no significant difference between them as far as providing, or NOT providing, a good education is concerned. The real problems with education in this country aren't even being discussed.

[mzteris]

153. are you preaching to the choir?

:hi:

Except I will say that they're not ALL a fraud. There are some very good schools out there - traditional public, charter public, private, heck - even religious, and let's not forget - homeschoolers so totally rock! - the problem is that there are still too many children not getting the opprtunities they need. And the fact that some "experts" still think that cramming "FACTS" down a kid's throat is an "education".

[AdHocSolver]

156. I did NOT mean to imply that all schools were bad.

"The argument is a total fraud about which schools are better: public schools, charter schools, or private schools." This phrasing better implies what I meant to say (I think).



:hi:

[Hannah Bell]

94. lol. says the person who has the stats from walmart-funded charter school promoters at her finger-

tips.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

123. I think the money isn't so good for internet shills. But it gets better the closer one gets to

power.

So they're hiring cheap grade school teachers from poor countries now?

christ on a cracker, the richest country in the world & we're hiring h1b GRADE SCHOOL TEACHERS.


And 31% of all NO FEMA funds for schools used to renovate ONE CHARTER SCHOOL -- because it's affiliated with Tulane University -- a PRIVATE UNIVERSITY that will probably eventually use their high-quality "charter" facilities as a cash cow & a practice/research lab for its students.

Can't attract rich students without high-class facilities, & even better when the public pays for them.

[DailyGrind51]

132. Sure, and if it wasn't for the Holocaust, there would not be a State of Israel either,

but, basic humanity demands that we don't draw such inhuman conclusions from tragic events. Arne Duncan applies a "shock doctrine" rationale in his thinking which is why he should not be making decisions involving children.

[mzteris]

26. what about what he said isn't true?

He's repeating what is said in NO all the time.

While Katrina was a tragedy - *something good* was made from the wreckage.

I don't get the ire. He's not saying it was a good thing Hurricane Katrina happened, but it's happening FORCED a community to re-work it's education system in a way that needed doing.

Communities don't have the "b*lls" to completely tear down their antiquated systems and start from scratch without being forced to. NO had no choice, and they took advantage of a bad situation to make something positive.

[madfloridian]

29. You really don't get it?

I guess not..not if you have to ask.

I have seen most everything defended at DU lately. Not surprised.

[hack89]

30. He said that terrible events sometimes produce beneficial change

do you really think he was saying we need more Katrina's? I think you are simply looking for something to be outraged about.

Do you disagree that the schools are better now?

[madfloridian]

36. It's called disaster capitalism.

Taking advantage of nature's tragedies to privatize schools.

[hack89]

42. Except there is no mention of school privatization in New Orleans nt

[madfloridian]

46. Who runs the charter schools that formed after Katrina??

Oh, and read this.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5172

[hack89]

47. Considering how poor the schools were

charter schools may be the way to go. I have no problem breaking up the education industry if it means the kids get a good education.

[madfloridian]

56. There was no "education industry." It WAS public education.

NOW Arne is turning it into an industry. If you are fine with it, that is your right.

They have destroyed good schools by taking money away and giving it to charters run by private companies.

You have fallen hard for the propaganda.

So many people have done that, it is destroying public schools.

[omega minimo]

85. what right wing talk show do those talking points come from?

[hack89]

101. Just my experience in a state with a poor education system. nt

[omega minimo]

102. The education system seemed like an "industry"?

Esp. if it was bad, I wouldn't think to call it that...............

[hack89]

103. Very much so

Teacher unions are very politically active in RI - can you imagine a state where active union officials are also members of the state legislature? They spend large amounts of money to influence law makers - they buy influence that the common tax payer can't even dream of. The result? Sub-standard schools; high drop out rates, inadequate state funding for students and yet the teacher are highly payed with benefits that average citizen will never see. And they use their influence to resist any attempt at reform or to relieve the burden on the tax payer. It is clear that the teacher unions care only about teachers - not the students. They are no different then the people that run the banks.

[dixiegrrrrl]

106. non-sequiterr

[mzteris]

79. they aren't being "privatized" -

people don't understand - or are deliberately misrepresenting - how charter public schools operate.

sigh. I get so tired of the misinformation being screamed every single time. Do you think they EVER back it up with facts? No. Do you think they EVER read the facts posted about the good of charter public schools? No.

Sad, really. Critical thinking skills being in such short supply in the very people that needs to teach them.

[omega minimo]

86. They ARE being privatized and its a national effort, with Arnie "Babs" Duncan at the forefront

It's no surprise that he would think and speak like a Disaster Capitalist. Send in Michelle Rhea and her Slash and Burn Team.

The charter school cheerleaders are the ones doing the deliberate misrepresenting, or don't understand the big picture of how this is being packaged for the country. Individual charter school successes do not change those facts.

[mzteris]

90. I think you're completely biased -

I embrace all forms of schooling - whatever works best for the kid, ya know? I don't "hate" traditional public schools. I just accept that there are other models that ALSO work. I also recognize - as I'm sure you do - that many traditional public schools have significant problems - and many traditional public schools are GREAT!

I look at ALL the facts, not just the ones I like or don't like. It's a matter of keeping an open mind and using critical thinking skills and not allowing your personal prejudices to cloud your thinking.

[omega minimo]

92. Then you're not "keeping an open mind and using critical thinking skills"

and you are "allowing your personal prejudices to cloud your thinking."

You have nothing to base your personal judgment statement upon. It's a real discussion killer that disproves everything you claim next about your own point of view.

There's potential for discussion there, but you need to remove the mote from your own eye, DONT make it personal and REALLY consider the facts.

There are many local stories and different experiences. There is also a very well organized and already entrenched system for dismantling the public school system and replacing with charter schools and "small schools." Celebrity spokesman Arnie Duncan, Arnold Schwarzennegger, of course Bill Gates, Kevin Johnson, Michelle Rhea. Slash and burn is what they do.

And that team is not about the students or education -- it's about profits. There is a lot of money involved. And you probably know that the problematic charters have all sorts of ways of hiding their private profits within a web of different legal entities, while claiming the charter school is non profit and possibly dressing it up in some quasi religious packaging.

The stories where kids and communities are actually helped and served educationally are great. The truth is, this bigger picture, coming down from "Babs" Duncan, is another scam, a Republican plan to privatize education, a way for the players to make big bucks and political empires with federal funds.

Those who ignore that fact, imperil all of our children and the future of education.

[mzteris]

95. Do you notice that I nearly always

post fact related, supported, linked statements?

How is it being prejudiced to want to not be biased? That doesn't make sense to me.

Did you know that Charter public schools are NOT FOR-PROFIT. Regardless of what people tell you. It is not true.

Apprx 10% of all charters are MANAGED by a "for-profit" organization, but that does not make the school "for-profit". .Did you also know that there are traditional public schools that are managed by "for-profit" organizations? Does that make them "for-profit" schools?" no.

apprx 12% are managed by non-profit management companies.

Over 77% are "free-standing" - typically run by parents, teachers, community organizers . . .

http://www.publiccharters.org/dashboard/schools/page/mgmt/year/2009

**************

Did you happen to see these stats on NO? I'd be curious to hear your - and others' - response.

Within each district, there were also significant differences between the average performance of charter and traditional schools.

■■Like districts, individual schools receive a school performance score (SPS) based on student performance on state tests and other indicators.

■■In both the OPSB and the RSD, charter schools had higher average performance scores than traditional district-run schools.

■■Within the OPSB, charters tend to be more selective than district-run schools, which explains a part of their higher performance.

■■Within the RSD, charters and district-run schools both serve similar student demographics in terms of ethnicity and poverty.

■■However, some key differences remain:
– RSD-run schools have higher student mobility rates and serve a higher proportion of special education students than RSD charters.
– Parents and teachers in RSD charters reported higher rates of satisfaction with their schools than their RSD-run counterparts in Cowen Institute surveys. This could indicate that RSD charters are more effective at educating students.

fyi:

Survey:
■ A survey was distributed in online and paper formats
between January and March 2008. Th e online
version was sent out to school principals, education
policymakers, community leaders and neighborhood
associations to distribute. Th e paper version was
distributed at nearly every public school in New Orleans
via drop-boxes. Cowen Institute researchers also
conducted intercept surveys of public school parents
outside of fi ve geographically diverse supermarkets in
New Orleans over the course of two weekends. Due
to erratic responses received from students during last
year’s survey, students were not actively targeted with the
survey and instead were engaged through focus groups.

■ Th e survey received 1,867 responses.

■ Teachers: 585 teachers responded, 51 percent of whom
were African-American. Th ere were suffi ciently large
samples from teachers for Recovery School District
(RSD)-run schools, Orleans Parish School Board
(OPSB)-run schools, RSD charters, and OPSB charters.

■ Parents: 529 parents responded, 54 percent of whom
were African-American. Th ere were suffi ciently large
samples from parents for RSD-run schools, RSD
charters, and OPSB charters.


http://www.tulane.edu/cowen_institute/documents/2009SPENOAddendumExecSummary.pdf

[omega minimo]

99. Then you might be interested in reading up on: Kevin Johnson, St. HOPE, Michelle Rhee, Gerald Walpin

[mzteris]

107. four individuals

don't make that much difference.

I know who Rhee is - but I've never heard of the others - care to give me a clue?

I suppose, though, they're terrible people who've done terrible things. And maybe that's true, I dunno. Does that mean everything everywhere associated with charters is "terrible"?

[omega minimo]

114. you aren't serious

you can google it, if you don't already know about the recent -- and ongoing -- national news story I'm referring to.

your dismissal of it as "four individuals" is absurd and also rings phony.

if you really want to know the answer to your question, you will read about it and decide for yourself how deeply embedded in the system and the power structure this behavior is.

[mzteris]

139. okay -

I'll check on it later and get back to you.

[mzteris]

147. what does a sex scandal

and the fact that one individual is guilty of misuse of funds have to do with an entire system of education?

If we were going to shut down systems because some individuals in charge misappropriated funds, we'd have NO schools in America at all!

[Hannah Bell]

124. I notice you always post "facts" from charter school organizations & think tanks funded by Walmart

& the rest of the charter school posse of rich fucks.

I called attention to it & you put me on ignore.

Certainly a person willing to listen to all points of view, uh-huh.

[Catshrink]

135. I could see Wal-Mart running a charter school

imagine this -- drop your kid off at "school", shop Wal-Mart, pick your kid up. Wal-Mart would get $$ from the government, pay teachers Wal-Mart wages (with no health insurance), and increase it's bottom line. Sounds like a win-win.

[mzteris]

138. nah - not unless

i wanted my kid to be a bagboy or checkout girl. . .

Hey - you forgot the Wal-Mart Greeter! Would that be the principal?

:rofl:

edit typo. aargh!

[Hannah Bell]

141. since wallyworld is one of the biggest funders of the charter school movement, infrastructure &

teacher/administrator training grounds, in a sense *every* charter school is a walmart school.

they also pay people to talk up charter schools on the net.

[madfloridian]

111. Hell, yes they are being privatized. Turned over to private companies.

There are many of those CMOs or EMOs whatever term you wish to use.

Yes, it is getting the government out of the school business and allowing businesses to run them without regulation.

You are very insulting to those of us who do know what we are talking about.

[omega minimo]

115. Insulting

and pretending.

:evilfrown:

Anyone who is informed on these matters cannot be as completely clueless of this aspect as that poster purports to be.

[Hannah Bell]

125. sure, we should get our information from the walmart waltons, like you do.

and slyly badmouth teachers at every opportunity, too.

"critical skills" my ass. you won't even acknowledge the obvious, & you put people on ignore when they draw attention to the sources of your "facts".

[Catshrink]

35. Nope.

Charter cheerleader.

[LisaM]

37. Check out post # 10

You want our school system privatized? Because that's what's happening under our very noses and the silence is deafening.

[mzteris]

38. sigh -

our schools are not being "privatized".

You're buying the whole "the sky is falling" routine . . .

I'm sorry, I'd go into more detail but I get really tired of having to say the same things over and over and over and having people WILLFULLY distort the facts because they don't like them. If you look through DU for my posts on Charter Public Schools, you'll get a clearer picture of what is really taking place.

[LisaM]

39. I've read a lot of DU posts on charter schools

I'm sorry, but it's the thin edge of the wedge. Why don't you read Madfloridian's excellent posts on the subject?

[mzteris]

41. chuckle chuckle

no thanks. couldn't if I wanted to.

You've read one of hers, you've pretty much read them all. Rants and Rants and Rants without the facts to back it up . Isolated incidents, and information taken out of context.

[LisaM]

44. Oh for Christ's sake

They are spot on and I agree with them.

There's another DUer whom I will not name who posts on the so-called benefits of charter schools, too (though the posts aren't the least bit convincing) who seems to be involved in the industry.

Speaking as someone whose father taught in the public schools his entire career (and taught well), I repeat that I am frightened by the idea that our public school system is on the verge of privatization. See it how you wish. We don't agree and this argument will go nowhere, so have a nice weekend.

[Catshrink]

48. Charters are a golden opportunity for

big business to get its grubby hands into the public coffers. Look at the benefits to them: little oversight, ability to pay teachers day care wages, ability to pay administrators 6 figure salaries, opportunities for nepotism and cronyism, no due process for employees, and did I say little oversight? They don't have to take special needs children or those with behavior problems -- they can pick and choose.

If the regulations were tightened up, I'd be willing to take a second look. But until charters are subject to public scrutiny the way public schools are, I remain opposed.

And now the charter shills will scream "but charter school are public schools." My ass. Charter schools are an accounting mechanism by which parents can segregate their kids and get the public to pay for it.

[LisaM]

51. And because they can kick out whomever they want

they can claim high graduation rates. I don't have a link for this but someone told me about a charter school claiming a 100% graduation rate - with a class of one student.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. That was me

We have one here that still boasts about its 100% graduation rate.

There were 3 kids in the class.

[mzteris]

80. oh - "someone TOLD you" ...

there's proof for ya.

That statement is not really true, btw.

And did you know that traditional public schools can - and do - require certain standards for admittance and performance and adherence to particular standards?

[mzteris]

148. Did she bother to mention that

the school is limited to a special population of children who have an open file with the Mental Health Center???

Kinda puts a whole different light on it, doesn't it?

[mzteris]

78. you know - almost nothing of what you claim

is true.


Pity you don't take a second look now and see what the state of public charter schools REALLY are.

[Hannah Bell]

126. if you're so tired, go home & take a nap.

[omega minimo]

87. "Communities don't have the "b*lls" to completely tear down their antiquated systems and start from"

"Communities don't have the "b*lls" to completely tear down their antiquated systems and start from scratch"

You think that's the solution?

[mzteris]

91. it would be "a" solution.

I said it wasn't really feasible. :shrug: You don't get out-of-the-box thinking, do you?

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzteris]

96. it wasn't meant to be

Some people are "out-of-the-box-thinkers" - some aren't. It's not WRONG to be either way - just how people are.

I was trying maybe to see why it is we aren't communicating well. I try very hard to be specific and impartial. I try very hard to keep "emotion" out of it but - yeah - sometimes I get ticked with some people on here - I AM only human. But I also try very hard to not "hold a grudge" because everyone has a bad day or says the wrong thing or misarticulates or something. :shrug:

Sometimes I'm accused of "parsing" too much. Of taking something apart and looking at the pieces - which is what I was doing with this whole "story". Arne Duncan said nothing that wasn't true. Arne Duncan said NOTHING that the citizens of New Orleans don't say ALL the time. Having the school system that existed completely wiped out - turned out to be a "good thing" - Not the event itself - but that there WAS a silver lining to the whole debacle. Read some of my links below if you don't believe. The state of education in NO prior to Katrina was beyond abysmal - it was criminal! The schools are better. The students are performing better. Honestly, I really don't get why people are so pissed off and don't understand the message. Really, I just don't get it.

I KNOW Katrina was a bad thing. Never to be wished upon anyone. But if a tragedy occurs - aren't you glad that something "GOOD" CAN be built? Right?

[omega minimo]

100. It's like saying "Slavery was the best thing that happened for African Americans...."

and justifying that they now live in "the Greatest Nation on the Planet."

Apparently, Duncan said, Katrina was "the best thing that happened to the education system in New Orleans," which is quite a different statement than saying "some good came out of it" or there was a "silver lining." Calling Katrina "the best thing that happened" for ANY reason is clueless, tone deaf and completely offensive, considering, not only the depth of the tragedy there but the reasons for -- and the total abandonment of -- the poor and black community by the Bush administration, which at the least was blatantly racist and at the worst was televised genocide.


And of course I was aware that your comment was "a option" and asked about it because, as worded, could be read as if you might consider it "the solution." Of course you might answer by pointing that out, as you did -- the barb about "outside the box thinking" was unnecessary and untrue.

"KNOW Katrina was a bad thing. Never to be wished upon anyone. But if a tragedy occurs - aren't you glad that something "GOOD" CAN be built? Right?"

Your point is well taken. The problem here is that under Dubya Bush, the failure of the levee system and its consequences, were not only "wished upon" NOLA, the timing of the flooding and tragic outcome afterward were PERPETRATED on the disenfranchised.

[mzteris]

108. Your last statement is true.

But i'm not sure what it has to do with the whole education thing now??

Yeah - Arne probably used a poor choice of words - but it was what heard more than once while in New Orleans. The people there say it and he repeated it - never dreaming people could possibly misinterpret it to be some sort sick remark.

Again, I didn't mean the comment as a "barb", just what I thought was an observation. My "aspie" tendencies seem to affect my people/communication skills. I'm sorry if I was wrong and I offended you.

[omega minimo]

118. Those on and behind Arnie's bandwagon to privatize public education, via racist Disaster Capitalism

use those tactics to bamboozle the public to support them.

What he said is important for those and all the other mentioned reasons.




Thank you for your peacemaking. Let's forget any perceived offense. No worries.

[Catshrink]

97. Just consider the source.

[mzteris]

28. um - not quite true on your "quote"

Education Department spokeswoman Sandra Abrevaya confirmed the accuracy of Duncan's quote.

and the REST of the article:

"In a statement e-mailed to The Post, Duncan elaborated on the comment: "As I heard repeatedly during my visits to New Orleans, for whatever reason, it took the devastating tragedy of the hurricane to wake up the community to demand more and expect better for their children."

Another excerpt from the TV One interview quoted Duncan on New Orleans educators:

"I have so much respect for the adults, the teachers, the principals that are working hard. I spent a lot of time talking to students at John Mack High School there, many of whom had missed school for six months, eight months, 13 months after the hurricane and still came back to get an education. Children in our country, they want to learn. They're resilient. They're tough. We have to meet them halfway. We have to give them an opportunity, and New Orleans is doing a phenomenal job of getting that system to an entirely different level."


***

What ARE you so pissed off about anyway? Nothing he said was false. Nothing he said was irresponsible or evil. He said nothing that is not being said IN NEW ORLEANS!

[KittyWampus]

32. If only this would blow up in Duncan's face and he had to quit.

[omega minimo]

57. Let's call him Arne "Babs" Duncan. Or perhaps the Disaster Capitalist of Education might do.

[Freddie Stubbs]

149. And then President Obama would have to hire someone else to implement his education agenda

[Swamp Rat]

33. Nope. Completely wrong.

Charter schools are totally fucked up, and the LSU system is crumbling (as per Bobby Jindal's unnecessary cuts, and loss of public control over the curriculum).

[ncteechur]

34. Um... just because you don't like the message doesn't make the message less true.

Are the schools in NO getting better than they were prior to Katrina?

If so, he may be correct.

What he said is NOT the same thing that Barbara Bush said. Duncan said nothing against the people of NO--he said their schools were a wreck and I believe the data shows the same.

[mzteris]

40. he could say they were beautiful

(the posters) and they'd scream they were ugly just to make him be "wrong".

it's so discouraging when Democrats won't listen to anything they don't agree with. I think it's called throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Or maybe like Obama said to the Repubs today about how they've painted themselves in a corner by being such extremists. They CAN'T agree because it show that everything they said before was based on ideologue not what is BEST for the kids.

Change must be made - they all agree. But they want to maintain the status quo in the process. Impossible.

[EFerrari]

45. Swamp Rat lives in Nola. His post is just above yours.

[omega minimo]

53. Yes I'm sure "that's working out quite well for them" aside from the death, horror, dogs, Blackwater

starvation, devastation, refugees, broken families and drowning and stuff.

[burning rain]

43. I've never seen a more open admission of using the shock doctrine.

.

[omega minimo]

54. There it is.

[RedCloud]

49. Maybe we will be "blessed" with an asteroid to make us evolve!

[jmowreader]

52. It did help MATH education...

by destroying the books containing this problem:

"A plumber makes $5 per day..."

Other than that, no.

[omega minimo]

55. because he and the public school privatizers are Disaster Capitalists and racists.

[madfloridian]

58. School superintendents in Louisiana are fighting back over forced charters.

Louisiana school superintendents are starting to fight back against forced charter schools

School superintendents are starting to fight back. Last month, superintendents flooded the state with letters of complaint directed at three proposals to create strictly online charter schools that in two cases would draw students from all over Louisiana. The superintendents submitted a range of complaints, including the involvement of for-profit companies in these would-be cybercharters, and whether these schools can comply with a raft of state laws.

The complaints prompted the state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education to postpone consideration of these cybercharters and several other charter school proposals until December.

A key underlying complaint of the superintendents is concern about how the state will determine who pays for these new schools. The law change is also at issue in a Union Parish lawsuit scheduled to reach a Baton Rouge courtroom Thursday.

Until June 2008, the state solely paid the cost for these charter schools, known as Type 2 charters. Charter schools are exempt from many of the normal requirements imposed on public schools in hopes that they will serve as educational laboratories.

"Louisiana was a target for the Educational Management Organizations EMOs that are often the management of charter schools. It was an easy target after Katrina destroyed so much of that city, it is easy to move in and set up."

[frustrated_lefty]

59. Born and raised through NO public education...

I'm certainly not going to disagree with SwampRat about what's happened to public education in New Orleans since Katrina. In fairness, though, primary and secondary education in New Orleans was abysmal, overall, during the '70s through the '90s. It was one of the worst education systems in the country, and showed little sign of changing. My kid sister went through the system as well, giving me a longer view of what was happening after I left. It was a failed system.

In fairness, again, I will state unequivocally that some of the best teachers I ever encountered were in the New Orleans public school system. Bright, motivated instructors pushed their students, and made a huge difference in the lives of many young people. Sadly, they were the exception, and not the rule.

Castigating the statement by Arne Duncan may be knee-jerk and ignores the practical reality on the ground.

I can't fault anyone for trying to find some good in the aftermath of Katrina. Whether or not that good is really there is something current residents will have to explain to us.

[Captain Hilts]

60. And who appointed him?

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. Next Arne will comment on how the earthquake helped Haiti's orphans

[omega minimo]

84. Well at least there is dirt there so entrepreneurs can make cookies

:sarcasm:

[Karmadillo]

64. Interesting that Obama keeps this guy around.

nt

[donheld]

65. "Interesting that Obama keeps this guy around."

He shouldn't have been appointed.

[Dappleganger]

68. He was a horrible choice.

[waiting for hope]

66. Asshole.

Arne Duncan is a misinformed, uneducated asshole.

"that city was not serious about its education. Those children were being desperately underserved prior, and the amount of progress and the amount of reform we've seen in a short amount of time has been absolutely amazing."

What the fuck does he know? Asshole.

[Catshrink]

69. Indeed. And he has never taught a day in his life.

Sorry, unless you've done the job, you don't know squat about teaching and the fundamentals of education. Just going to school isn't going to cut it.

[waiting for hope]

120. He is a person in "business", not education.

That is a red flag and anyone that doesn't see that is a shill for the charter brand.

[intheflow]

70. Surely some of the so-called education advances are due to the poorest kids moving

out of town. Overall, the more impoverished the student, the worse their academic performance. Apart from rebuilding schools and privatizing them, any increase in academic excellence might also be attributed to African American relocation and a rise in the percentage of students from white (economically and culturally advantaged) households. :(

[lsewpershad]

71. Idiot!!!!!!

[Karmadillo]

72. Should Democrats be calling for his resignation?

If such a statement had come out of the Bush administration, I'm guessing that's exactly what we'd be demanding.

[Freddie Stubbs]

157. So far no Democrat in Congress has done so

[mzteris]

73. school performance after Katrina

Orleans Parish school performance scores continue to improve; View the scores
By Sarah Carr, The Times-Picayune
October 14, 2009, 7:00AM

School performance across New Orleans is continuing to improve steadily, with the percentage of city schools in the academically unacceptable category decreasing during the past year, according to data released Tuesday by the state.

All told, about 42 percent of the city's public schools are now considered academically unacceptable, compared with about 45 percent last year, and about 63 percent before Katrina.

A significant majority of the city's charter schools -- publicly funded, but independently run -- scored high enough to avoid the failing label, while most of the city's traditional schools that are part of the state-run Recovery School District remain in the failing category.

The district's high schools posted the most dismal results in the city, although the elementary schools performed far better, with schools like Drew in the 9th Ward posting strong gains. Many of the district's elementary schools are within striking distance of a passing mark.

. . . Last year, the score would have been about 66.4, while this year it would be 70.6, a jump of about 6 percent. In the year before Katrina, the district performance score for the city's schools was 56.9 -- meaning the overall score has jumped 24 percent since then. The district performance score was improving before Katrina as well.

[Hannah Bell]

127. The majority of students in NO now attend charter schools. The

remaining traditional public schools have higher percent of special ed & similar categories, e.g.:

"JOHN MERROW: District-wide data indicate that Vallas has a problem. The average special education population in traditional schools is 12 percent, but at charter schools, it's less than 8 percent. Are your charter schools somehow excluding special needs kids?"

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/education/jan-june09/nolacharter_05-06.html.

"However, a traditional Recovery School District school had, on average, about 9.5 percent special education students as of the Oct. 1 student count date, while the average district charter school had just over 6 percent special education students.

The five traditional Orleans Parish School Board schools, many of which have selective admissions, had an average of close to 7 percent special education students in December, while the School Board's charter schools averaged about 4 percent.

At John McDonogh Senior High School, a traditional school in the Recovery School District, at least one out of every six students had a disability such as autism, blindness or mental retardation that entitled them to special education services on the official student count date. But at Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Charter School for Science and Technology, a Recovery District charter school, one in every 40 children was a special education student at the count date. And at Benjamin Franklin High School, a selective charter school overseen by the Orleans Parish School Board, recent statistics show that one in every 200 students qualifies for special education.

These figures do not include gifted and talented students, who also qualify for exceptional children's services under state law. At Franklin, for instance, about 75 percent of the children are gifted and talented.

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/01/charter_schools_struggle_to_me.html.






"Laura Iveson, whose 4-year-old daughter has Down syndrome, said she had hoped to send the girl to Oak Park. Iveson said she already inquired with a few other charter schools in New Orleans, and she said she was given the impression that her daughter wasn't welcome."

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/proposal_for_new_orleans_chart.html.

NO charters are able to kick out disruptive or special needs students: guess where they wind up?

"The change of culture is not so much in the principal, but the charters of New Orleans ability to throw out disruptive and special needs students over to the Recovery School District. As well as not allowing disengaged parents with failing students to register at a charter.

If any current traditional public school was able to do what the Charters do to disruptive and special needs students as well as holding parents accountable and not taking in the students of disengaged parents with home problems: every traditional public school would see a jump in their score - with or without a principal, lol.

Brian Riedlinger, chief executive officer of the city's School Leadership Center, cannot take credit for any strong principal leadership success stories. Riedlinger, fired by the Algiers Charter Schools, as their C.E.O simply uses the grant monies for his "leadership" academy at tax payers expense to promote himself. The State has a tax supported leadership program, U.N.O. has their leadership degree, and New Leaders for New Schools has their lame leadership program all duplicating and wasting tax dollars as non-profits. Do some investigating in these "leadership" programs? How much does Brian Riedlinger pay himself with his non-profit. Is it as much as his ex-wife and C.E.O. for Lusher - $200,000?

The Charter School movement will NEVER happen in other parish - only predominately African-American communities where the State has stripped the African-American community of the monies to run their school. You will never see Charters in other parishes. Public and Charter schools is big money for the locals - unlike Orleans Parish - the other Parishes will not loose control of the monies or contract. Only in African-American communities, lol. Please look into this Ms. Carr and see the big picture of what is happening."

http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2009/12/post_67.html.

[mzteris]

74. school system before Katrina

NEW ORLEANS SCHOOLS BEFORE AND AFTER KATRINA
November 1, 2005

JIMMY FAHRENHOLTZ: You have to realize that we are a very, very old city and we had some very old schools. And before Katrina we had probably 50 to 60 schools that should have been torn down.

JOHN MERROW: Jimmy Fahrenholtz is of the New Orleans school board.

JOHN MERROW: It had other problems besides decrepit buildings. New Orleans, the nation's 50th largest public school system with nearly 60,000 students, had earned a reputation for incompetence and dishonesty.

JIMMY FAHRENHOLTZ: Fraud, corruption, contract scams, flat-out theft, people walking out with laptops, anything you can imagine. Any way you could steal they were doing it.

JOHN MERROW: Since 2002, there have been 24 indictments against school employees. $71 million in federal money was unaccounted for, and there were other problems. Academically, New Orleans was one of the worst public school systems in the country. 70 percent of the eighth graders were not proficient in math, 74 percent in English. Under pressure from the state because of the academic performance and in danger of going bankrupt, the school board acted. It hired a company that specializes in turning around failing organizations. They arrived in New Orleans in July.

JOHN MERROW: What did you find?

BILL ROBERTI: Just years and years and years of abuse, and of people just doing what they wanted to do. I mean there was -- there was no discipline.

AJAN GEORGE: We had a person that has been on paid leave for 35 years. I joked with somebody. Do we send them, you know, like a silver anniversary card? Thank you for 35 years of non- service?

We had documented cases of people that were putting in 50 hours of overtime a week, 50 hours a week, every week of the year, including Christmas.

BILL ROBERTI: They were getting more money in their stipends then they were getting in their basic paychecks. There was $22 million worth of stipends paid out of the New Orleans public school system last year.

just after katrina
. . . DR. ORA WATSON: I think the sky is the limit. We have to do some real out-of-the-box thinking. And I've already, with some support from other people, have asked that we have some of the best minds from across the country to come in and help us with new thinking.

JOHN MERROW: But will the old ways that gave New Orleans schools such a bad reputation reemerge?

JIMMY FAHRENHOLTZ: I don't think you are going to see it, the "old okey doke," as a friend of mine used to say. Some of those people New Orleans teacheraren't coming back. The light's on them; they can't do the things they used to do with the kind of oversight that we have now.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/education/july-dec05/neworleans_11-01.html

[Hannah Bell]

128. Shall I post my collection of charter school fraud, graft, assault, rape & molestation articles

for you again?

According to you, such incidents are "meaningless". And anyone who posts them is just trying to make all charter schools look bad, tarring them with a single brush.

But when you use tar, I guess it's ok?

Let's see, I think one of the latest ones was out of NO, for about $700K -- in ONE SCHOOL.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=219x18011

[mzteris]

75. USA article: Disaster gave birth to radical reforms

Our view on hurricane's legacy: Four years after Katrina, New Orleans reinvents its schools
Disaster gave birth to radical reforms, with lessons for others.

If there was any silver lining to the devastation that Hurricane Katrina wrought in New Orleans four years ago, perhaps it is this: The water washed away one of the nation's worst school systems and left New Orleans determined to rebuild in a wholly new way.

Since the fall of 2005, the schools have been slowly climbing out of the cellar. The city attracted a nationally known school reformer, superintendent Paul Vallas, and so many teachers that it has 10 applicants for every opening. Last year, the school district was able to spend $15,500 per pupil — twice what it spent before Katrina and far above the national average. Scores have risen on both state and national tests.

But for all its recent advantages, the district remains saddled with daunting problems. Nearly a third of the city's children live in poverty, according to the Greater New Orleans Community Data Center. The vast majority of students live in single-parent homes; many are being raised by siblings or foster parents or are on their own. More than half are at least one year older than is typical for their grade level.

As the song says about New York, if they can fix schools here, they can fix them anywhere. It is too soon to tell whether they can, but at least New Orleans is teaching the nation a few things about what it takes to try.

. . . -- Patience. There has been marked improvement. State assessment scores were a dramatic 10 points higher last year than in 2004-05. But the district still ranked 65th among the state's 68 districts. Tulane University President Scott Cowen, one of the architects of the new system, praises the progress but says it could "take a generation" to get the ultimate results. The schools are battling challenges that come from decades of failure in the classroom and poverty at home.


http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/debate-on-hurricanes-legacy-our-view-four-years-after-katrina-new-orleans-reinvents-schools.html

[ecstatic]

76. His comment was inappropriate, but if the schools have improved then that's a great thing nt

[omega minimo]

83. The education privatizers are masters of Orwellian talk and they ARE disaster capitialists.

Language matters.

[Hannah Bell]

129. The majority of NO schools are now charter schools; they cherry-picked the best students,

got additional funding & kick disruptive students back to the remaining traditional schools.

They serve lower percentages of special ed & other special needs students, & much higher percents of "gifted" students.

Easy to "improve" when you don't have to follow the same rules.

[mzteris]

77. NewOrleans community calls Katrina "the best thing that happened

to the education system in NOLA:


The 2008 State of Public Education in New Orleans report was prepared by:
The Scott S. Cowen Institute for Public Education Initiatives at Tulane University

" . . .We have heard from many community members that the silver lining of Hurricane
Katrina is the opportunity to rethink, rebuild, and reinvent our public schools so
that all students are provided with a high-quality academic and developmental
experience. The future of New Orleans rests in its children—therefore, it is our
moral, civic, and economic responsibility to improve public schools for the next
generation. Th is goal will not be achieved overnight, but with patience and
perseverance it is possible.

. . . With the exception of a few high-performing, selective admissions schools (traditional public schools - not Charter public schools), most public schools in the decade before
Katrina were low-performing and composed almost entirely of African-American and low income students.12 Th is created a signifi cant socio-economic achievement gap within the
public school system.

. . .Hurricane Katrina also served as a catalyst for change. . . Certain facts are clear: There have been enormous changes as a result of Katrina.

http://www.tulane.edu/cowen_institute/documents/080417SPENOReportFINAL.pdf


********

This Supplement to the 2008 State of Public Education in New Orleans Report was prepared by:
The Scott S. Cowen Institute for Public Education Initiatives at Tulane University

". . . If schools in New Orleans were still in one district, their district performance score would be 66.4 for the 2007-2008 school year. While this is low compared to the state performance score of 86.3, this represents a significant increase of nearly 10 points from the district’s pre-Katrina score of 56.9 in the 2004-2005 school year.
To put this 10-point increase into perspective, New Orleans public schools also improved by about 10 points in the three years between 2002 and 2005; however, no major disaster occurred during that period. Indeed, considering that many students came back to the city after Katrina having spent time out of school and suffering from the trauma of displacement, this increase in overall performance is promising.

Within each district, there were also significant differences between the average performance of charter and traditional schools.

■■Like districts, individual schools receive a school performance score (SPS) based on student performance on state tests and other indicators.

■■In both the OPSB and the RSD, charter schools had higher average performance scores than traditional district-run schools.

■■Within the OPSB, charters tend to be more selective than district-run schools, which explains a part of their higher performance.

■■Within the RSD, charters and district-run schools both serve similar student demographics in terms of ethnicity and poverty.

■■However, some key differences remain:
– RSD-run schools have higher student mobility rates and serve a higher proportion of special education students than RSD charters.
– Parents and teachers in RSD charters reported higher rates of satisfaction with their schools than their RSD-run counterparts in Cowen Institute surveys. This could indicate that RSD charters are more effective at educating students.

In spite of their lower absolute scores, school performance scores grew more for RSD schools than for OPSB schools between the 2006-2007 school year and the 2007-2008 school year.
The promising news: the average performance for every school type in New Orleans grew significantly over the past two years.

http://www.tulane.edu/cowen_institute/documents/2009SPENOAddendumExecSummary.pdf

edit typo

[KamaAina]

122. The Scott S. Cowen Institute is hardly representative of the New Orleans community

it's named for the president of Tulane, who is not a New Orleanian and was described, more than once, by the late titan of the NOLA blogosphere, H. Ashley Morris, Ph. D., as a "fuckmook". For Ash, a fuckmook was anyone who stood in the way of his beloved New Orleans regaining its place among the country's -- the world's -- great cities.

Under Cowen's leadership*, Tulane, one of the "Southern Ivies", is now ranked nationally -- 43rd, at last count. :eyes: It even dropped a computer science program funded by a donation from alumnus David Filo, of Yahoo! fame! :wtf:

Oh yes, Tulane also runs charter schools itself, notably Lusher, in its Uptown neighborhood -- where more than half the slots are reserved for the children of Tulane faculty or staff. Not exactly an impartial source. :eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

131. That school got 30% of FEMA funds intended for the entire NO school system.

But don't expect the poster to ever acknowledge facts such as you or I posted.

[mzteris]

140. point taken.

I had no idea they were not "impartial".

I may go noodle around some more and try and find some "less tainted" info. Though I suppose anything *I* find will be deemed tainted by some. :eyes:

Who would yall find credible???

Also, I will say that "university model lab" schools have been around for a very long time - way before charters came into existence.

And BK (before Katrina) - the traditional Public schools were incredibly segregated by "admissions qualifications"...

[Hannah Bell]

130. Key differences: "RSD-run schools have higher student mobility rates and serve a higher proportion

of special education students"


nice how they put that key bit of info at the bottom of the "glowing" report. it hides a wealth of difference.

[glinda]

82. Awful!

[LWolf]

88. Fire him. Now.

If there is any authenticity to the rumors that Obama plans to actually repair the damage he's done by supporting or defending the actual democratic base, firing Arne Duncan will be his first act.

[tonysam]

89. He HAS to reverse his education policy. This is a line in the sand

as far as I am concerned.

[LWolf]

98. Yes. nt

[ibegurpard]

104. what's his basis for saying things have improved?

[mzteris]

110. Posts 73, 74, 75, 77 n/t

[Dinger]

109. Kickin' Just To remind People What A POS arne Is (nt)

[waiting for hope]

113. Can I kick you to kick the post?

:hi:

[Dinger]

119. But Of Course My Friend : )

:hi:

[w4rma]

116. Fire Arne Duncan, now! (nt)

[Skittles]

117. any point he has is lost by framing it in such an ugly manner

[Catshrink]

136. And palling around with Rhee

she's no friend to education.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

133. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours