The Republicans will never be so stupid again..today was like when Bush's face just about exploded

[ddeclue]

in the first 2004 Kerry Bush debate. Bush almost lost it and went over and punched Kerry. (Which would have resulted in a literal instead of rhetorical ass whipping..) If Bush hadn't been able to tighten up the rules and keep his cool in the second debate (which he also lost) then it would have been all over, that first debate got Kerry a lot closer than he was prior to that in beating Bush.

The GOP won't be foolish enough to go head to head in an uncontrolled debate against Obama again - they just got their collective ass kicked and they know it. They will stick to letting their talking bobble heads (Douche-baugh, Beckkk, Insanity, O'Lielly, ManCoulter, et.al.) spew venom behind Obama's back on the radio.

Whomever they select for the 2012 race, the GOP will also very tightly control the debate rules to keep it from being a REAL debate like today so that their ideas won't have to face any real scrutiny. The beating they took today and in the SOU was extreme. I expect the GOP to lose 5 points and Obama to gain 5 points in the next week easily. If he fails to follow through with actual delivered action on jobs and healthcare he will lose those gains.

What we need is a Congress full of people who aren't afraid to fight like that - people like Alan Grayson, Anthony Weiner, Dennis Kucinich, Barney Franks, and Al Franken in the Senate. Unfortunately that's pretty much all there is to work with right now in terms of fearless articulate leadership on our side. Reid and Pelosi are pathetic in comparison and we are weighed down by the Senate Blue Dogs who stab us in the back repeatedly and particularly by Joe Lieberman who gives the GOP cover on every issue by claiming to be their token Democrat on FauxNews even though he is NOT a Democrat anymore.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[Skip Intro]

1. You know, it still kills me how Kerry wiped the floor with bush in all those debates, but "lost"

the election.

Biggest "WTF" of the last decade.

[aquart]

2. Uh huh. "Lost."

No one will ever make me believe it.

[Kalun D]

3. Bonesmen

they made a deal, let the bush boy have 2 terms and we'll support you on the next one

only problem Kerry got the loser stigma, I remember his dejection when he lost the primaries, "but the promised me" boo hoo.

bush sr always felt stung when he only got one term it was retribution to get his dim son in there twice.

[tavalon]

4. I prefer the term Diebolded

It's really more accurate than lost.

[Botany]

5. I am from Columbus Ohio and there is no way bush won.

i saw and heard it too many things first hand not to know that the election was dirty.

Example a poor couple but big Kerry supporters came by Kerry's HQ w/ a scrap book
of pictures of Kerry, news paper cut outs, and election stuff to show their support ...
I was doing some volunteer work there @ nights ..... I introduced them to a wonderful
(and hot too :loveya:) women who woked in Kerry's senate office ..... they were thrilled.

About a week later they came by w/ a letter saying that one of their mothers who had a
stroke was rejected from getting an absentee ballot after she wrote the B.O.E.. Now the rejection
letter was made to look like it came from the Franklin County B.O.E. but it wasn't really from
the B.O.E.. Now either somebody from the post office had open the letter asking
for an absentee ballot and had turned it over to political operatives or somebody @ the
B.O.E. had turned the letter over to political operatives.

The number of such cases of "things" like this that happened on the small or large
scale was in the 10s of thousands state wide. What really pisses me off is that media
damn well knows these stories too.

sorry to ramble.

[unblock]

8. i agree it was stolen and i think it was a backstab

i think the cheney gang did it behind the scenes to stay in power. i actually think shrub didn't want it anymore. i've never seen any president care less about being president or doing anything to build a decent legacy with the people. he did his 4 years and wanted to be able to get rich and drink in peace.

moreover, i think the ultra-rich supporters knew full well that 4 more years of shrub would be a disaster to the republican brand. i can't say that they knew he'd completely trash the entire economy, but he had proven himself so incompetent politically, and second terms are invariably worse and more scandal-ridden than their corresponding first terms.

shrub "won" such a close election and there was hardly any real celebration anywhere. it really seemed like shrub himself was disappointed. damn, i gotta do this crap another 4 years?

[Botany]

10. The facts in Ohio 2004 all pointed to a Kerry win

Dems/Kerry 325,000 new voters registered (God knows how many more new dem voter registrations were
thrown away by Nathan Sproul & Assoc. that dressed up like America Coming Together Workers but called themselves
"move america forward" .... many reports of tossed dem registrations about this group ...... bush / Cheney paid Sproul
$10,000,000 for their work)rep/bush 35,000 new voters registered

Ohio lost more jobs than any other state in the country from 2000 - 2004 and a person's economy is the # 1 factor in
voting behavior.

You are wrong bush enjoyed his win very much. There pictures of him laughing not long after Karen Hughes told him he was
going to lose in a landslide (electoral) Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, Nevada, and I think North Carolina were going for Kerry.

I pray I live long enough to see the truth to come out. What I saw and heard on 11/2/04 & 11/3/04 still weigh on me
even though I know i should let it go.

[unblock]

12. i'll grant you that shrub may have enjoyed "the win" itself

but i maintain that he didn't want to actually *be* president for another 4 years.

[Botany]

14. Just because he basically was on vacation for 1/4 to 1/3 of his time in office

the Wednesday mornings @ 10:30 3 hour bike rides

the waiting 3 days and staying on vacation / campaigning as New Orleans drowned

the month long vacation after being told that bin Laden wanted to attack us

...... you are right he never really wanted to work @ his job ..... after all Dick Cheney/ Rove / Rummy
Alberto / Harriet Meirs / Karen Hughes / ....... were the ones doing the real work.

[spanone]

11. gore wiped the floor with the idiot son and they constantly called it a draw

[lunatica]

13. Same goes for the Gore - Bush debates

Gore had the audacity, no, the temerity, no, the utter rudeness to actually sigh! SIGH!!!

No wonder he 'lost' the election!

[quaker bill]

6. "The Republicans will never be so stupid again"

Every time I have thought this over the last 30 years, I was wrong. I have since learned to never underestimate the power of Republican stupidity.

[unblock]

7. exactly. they're usual response to failed stupidity is to amp up the stupidity.

[lonestarnot]

9. Glad you didn't post that pic.

:)

[KharmaTrain]

15. Debates Are Over Rated...

Even if boooshie had dribbled on his shoes in all the debates, it wouldn't have made much of a difference in the outcome of the election. The fix was in, the minds were set and few minds were going to be changed. Debates have become teevee shows...a circle jerk that the pundits love to play but have little affect on viewers.

The GOOP knows this...why they agree to these "debates" as their candidates are pre-packaged long before the general election begins. If anything, Kerry, no matter how he was boooshie's intellectual and policy superior came off looking like the cartoon character the GOOP had painted him...staid, wonkish...not very "consumer friendly". Our electorate isn't interested in specifics, it's perceptions that matter. A candidate has to have charisma...a personal touch that transcends issues. It's feeling good about the choice...and its more emphemeral than anything else.

If you want a Congress and Senate full of the people you mention, then it means going out and finding these type of candidates and supporting them. They don't grow on trees and many qualified Progressives have problems as they're too cerebral and lack the "common touch". I'm seeing several here in Illinois...for example, Hoffman, the Senate candidate. He's brilliant, but comes off like someone's nerdy brother. He'd be great to help you with your homework, but not as a Senator. Again...perceptions mean a lot.

Also, you can't template a candidate...a Grayson may do well in a New York or San Francisco, but looks like he'll have the fight for his life in holding onto his seat in November. Each candidate has to direct their message to the area they want to represent. Many blue dogs are elected simply cause they do reflect the values of the area they serve. The GOOP has mastered finding the candidate that can relate to the voter. Yes it was campy and phony about Brown driving around in a pick-up truck, but the perception is what people picked up on...compared to Coakley who came off as a dead fish. Methinks we need a think tank or some kind of training ground to help not only find candidates, but properly prepare them...financially and imagewise to go into each district and present a Progressive message that relates to the voters...not the other way around.