A lot of people don't give teachers the respect

[Are_grits_groceries]

they deserve because a lot of them feel they could do a better job. Everybody has been in a classroom and been exposed to all types of teachers. When they are adults and involved in their respective careers, they think that if they decided to they could whip those classrooms and schools into shape.

Few other professions are exposed to people for such a long time. You wouldn't put somebody in front of a car and expect them to fix it. You wouldn't put people right into most jobs that think they could handle at any level.

But by Gawd, they know they could get in front of a class and make them sit up and fly right without problems. If they didn't know the subject matter such as in a substitute teacher situation, they could still handle the little blighters.

Some people do know better. They truly realize what the job entails. However deep down, there is this idea floating around in a lot of heads that they could handle it.

I wish EVERYBODY would either substitute for a week or at least be a teacher's aide. Your hair probably would stand on end because of the things you hear and see.

Try it. See how you fare just doing that task.

[AngryAmish]

1. My main problem with teachers is so many that I have met are half-wits

Go to most universities and you will see one of the least selective programs usually is the education program. And the dim find their ways into those programs, since they are easier.

[Are_grits_groceries]

2. I loathed education classes.

They were full of theory and not much practical experience. Ed Schools in universities need to integrate themselves more into real classrooms. The prospective teachers wouldn't have such a hard time adjusting when they were in their first year or two. As it is, I'm not sure why more don't throw their hands up in the air and run away after their first few months.

[corpseratemedia]

3. I never found, as a TA or as a teacher, other teachers or administrators being helpful or supportive

I got the help I needed from my k-12 buddies and used some of the psychology they applied (to kids) to the problem adults that occasionally showed up in my classes.

[liberalhistorian]

35. Ooooh, you just said the "A" word, as my

parents referred to them. Administrators. Gak, how they hated administrators. Said nothing made their jobs harder than admins, not even recalcitrant parents who refused to ever believe their little darlings did anything wrong and if they were failing it wasn't THEIR fault, it was always the teacher's fault. Even if they weren't paying attention or doing their homework and goofing off in class.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. So I guess since we have never actually met. you aren't calling ME a halfwit?

Broad brushing does nothing to further this discussion. :eyes:

[teacher gal]

6. Are you aware

that most people who become teachers do not major in education?

[teacher gal]

7. and that

a U. S. Department of Education study a few years back found that teachers headed for middle school and high school classrooms had college GPAs as high as other majors and SATs as high as other majors?

But I would say that it is precisely those qualities which cannot be measured by these overrated tests which separate merely competent teachers from truly great ones.

And yes, there are some poor teachers, just as there are some poor practitioners in any field.

[tonysam]

22. Unlike the know-it-all up there who hasn't a fucking clue,

you HAVE to take pedagogy classes, not just because it's required, but because you NEED to know how to relate to kids and present the material so they can understand it. A know-it-all like AA couldn't cut it if he or she tried in the classroom; the attitude absolutely stinks.

[LiberalFighter]

8. Never had a half wit for a teacher in grade school or high school.

The closest I had was a teacher in college that was boring. Retook the math class with a different teacher and got a B out of it. Had a D or F before.

Since then any classes I have taken have been mostly time consuming and boring mainly because I know the subject matter. Or it was forced on us to fill time at work.

[Igel]

40. I must have gotten more than my share.

Grade school was populated by well-meaning half-wits.

High school, by those who just wanted to be able to retire eventually. Not entirely. I had a few fully-witted teachers.

Unfortunately, one of them quickly transferred to administration, thinking he could do better. Another was killed in a car crash.

Don't know what happened to the third; they had him teaching 9th and 10th grade general math, and as a sop he was allowed to teach pre-calc. Only class I've had in which we finished the curriculum. And not only finished it, but finished it many weeks early and then just kept on going.

Colllege was populated by full-wits, but many had absolutely no idea how to teach or deal with students. Or, presumably, people.

[keroro gunsou]

18. as a self-admitted half wit

i wanted to be a teacher, but i managed to flunk out of my college's school of education. my own fault, too much beer, not enough studying. i am planning to go back and finish. i'd like to teach what i know.... now i just need to narrow it down to a subject.... :cry:

i'll probably do history, mostly because i love the subject, or literature, since i love to read. i'd definately find it interesting to hear what this generation of whippersnappers has to say about charles dickens.

[tonysam]

21. More bullshit from a know-it-all

Try doing the job--it's the hardest goddamned thing to do.

[liberalhistorian]

33. Then I don't know where you are meeting these teachers,

because I grew up with them, was and am surrounded by them, and I just don't see it. Sure, you have your dipshits and your assholes, no question, but EVERY profession has those. And people have no clue just how difficult and exhausting it really is.

[GoCubsGo]

44. Most of the teachers I know are anything but "dim"

That word better describes the parents of many of their students, who shirk their parental duties off on their children's teachers. Then they blame the teachers when their children turn into dumb, little assholes. Teaching children is difficult enough without having to act as a parent to half of them on top of it. You couldn't pay me enough to do that job as it is, let alone do it with people like you painting all people in that job with a broad brush the way you are.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

45. This IS startlingly true.

Most of my half-witted classmates are "education" majors, simply because it's a lot of BS at many schools. (Not all, mind you, but a good amount of schools). Now, the correlation between education majors and actual teachers is not actually that strong (relatively few of my own K-12 teachers were ed majors, and my mother was a teacher but not an ed major), but why should education be a fluff major? I have considered teaching but 1) I don't work well with younger kids or 14/15-year-old hellions, and 2) Almost nowhere do teachers seem to get either respect or an actual wage that doesn't require them to also work side jobs (I was surprised to realize, after graduation, how many of my K-12 teachers worked second jobs, in addition to the ABSURD amount of take-home work teaching involves--the work does not stop outside of the classroom). If you want to get kids at high-level universities, the so-called "best and the brightest," into the classroom, you do have to 1) make it a more livable wage, and 2) help with college debt reduction, so that we can actually afford to be teachers.

On Edit: Not saying that what's startlingly true is that most teachers are half-wits--I have encountered a few utter morons, but also brilliant people, just like any other profession. What's startlingly true is how much of a fluff major education can be, and how it does seem to attract the dimwitted (not that they all make it anywhere near a classroom after graduation). It's a decently popular major because of the perception that you'll always have a job as a teacher, no matter how crap the economy gets (whether this is true or not, I do not know), but absolutely none of them have the illusion that they'll ever end up actually being paid well for their pains.

[tonysam]

47. The nitwits who post about half-wits

are dimwits who have no wits about them when it comes to what education requires. It isn't a "fluff" major. God damn it all. Quit with this shit that education is so fucking easy to be trained in. You don't see the irony of your post.

You say teachers don't get the respect, yet you trash the programs teachers have to go through to get these jobs.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

50. This is sort of hilarious, as by far the most influential people in my life have been teachers.

Teaching is an extremely important profession, which is why it annoys me that I don't feel more suited to teaching because it really is perhaps the ultimate way to give back to society. What I understand most is that education classes (at least when the teachers I know now were doing it, about twenty-thirty years ago) can tend to be a crapton of complete bureaucratic bs. Required-to-teach bs, of course, but insanely red-taped nonetheless.

[TexasObserver]

72. It doesn't occur to you that your perception is not a valid one?

If you think they're half wits, maybe it just means you're not very good at assessing teachers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. You are my new hero!

Thank you.

Teacher bashers will be making an appearance in 3, 2, 1 . . . :)

[Tim01]

9. Teachers can't do much in the Bush/Obama education system.

Teachers don't do much except drill students for tests. There isn't room for much education. I know public school teachers who are quitting to get out of the useless system, and going to get jobs where they can teach.

[LWolf]

60. Let me know when they find those jobs. Where are they? nt

[NashVegas]

10. With All Due Respect

Teachers need to focus on educating and let their lawyers focus on defending the union and practices. The attacks of the last 20 years from all sides have made a school-room education the last thing I'd want for my child.

[Catshrink]

15. That makes absolutely no sense.

Are you saying teacher involvement in unions is affecting education in the classroom? I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here.

[NashVegas]

27. What I Mean Is

It's difficult to concentrate on doing one's job well, pro-actively, when one is forced to play defense at the same time and from all sides.

I'm saying that the leadership in schools and education and yes, the union, that is allowing so many distractions in and from the classroom in the first place plays a huge role in what public education has become in so many sub-par schools. There is too much shit that no one is putting their foot down on, for fear of the flack.

Our governor Phil Bredesen recently signed legislation tying tenure and teacher performance scores, in part (35%), to test score performance. Why the union leadership didn't mount a public campaign screaming for parental involvement also taken into account evades me.

[tonysam]

32. I think you ask a very good question about the unions.

Unlike other unions in other sectors of the economy, teachers' unions tend to be a pretty wimpy lot overall, as I have discovered to my dismay.

[Catshrink]

41. That's why we're professionals.

In the classroom we, most of us at my school anyway, put that aside so that we can teach. It's hard, but it's not appropriate to discuss the politics of eduation funding in the classroom -- unless it's a government class.

[tonysam]

23. What the fuck are you talking about?

They DO, fool. What "lawyers," by the way?

[seabeyond]

11. nope, no desire to be a teacher. i think the teachers my boys have and have had are excellent

doing a fine job.

no problems with the education my boys are gettting

totally support and huge thanks

[Catshrink]

16. Thank you!

[KG]

12. yes, and of course those peoples' kids are perfect angels that would never act-up in class.

and wait till payday arrives! woohoo!

[sendero]

13. Teaching..

... is like every other profession. Some teachers are excellent, and some are marginal at best.

There is no question that it takes a certain kind of person to be a teacher. I could not do it. Then again, not many teachers could do my job either.

As far as what teachers have to put up with, that is, like in many other jobs, up to them as well.

[exboyfil]

14. I do have complaints about several of my children's teachers

My primary complaint is the 6th grade teacher for both my children. While in general she is good in other subjects, I have a problem with the most important subject at that age, Math. We have a ridiculously selective process for access to Pre-Algebra in 7th grade (it includes an assessment test with a mystery section of material which is not covered in her class at least - she was three chapters behind the other feeder schools when my oldest took the test). My oldest did not do well on that test and was on the path for Algebra in 9th grade (outrageous given her ability). She was able to test up after 7th grade, but she constantly has to battle to keep her A in 8th grade Algebra against other kids who benefitted from the Pre-Algebra class.

My youngest thinks that, through my prep and her ability, she was able to pass the Assessment (we find out in two weeks). I benefitted from my oldest telling us what she remembered from the test - otherwise I would not have a clue on what to teach my youngest from her Math book (which is 22 chapters long, and they are only in Chapter 8 - material on the assessment came from as far as Chapter 20 in the book according to my youngest).

In general my children had a very positive experience in Elementary school up until 6th grade (my youngest's 4th grade teacher was a little weak compared to the wonderful 4th grade teacher my older one had who was very old school - precise with high expectations of her students but she retired).

Other issues I have is my oldest having a coach for two years of English (7th and 8th), and I knowing that he is not doing as good a job as the other 8th grade teacher (my daughter is also concerned about this - she has not learned to write well, and I am the wrong person to teach her). Another issue is the non-streamed classes (such as English, Social Studies, and Science) which have behavioral problems which take away from the instruction. Also a Science teacher who is just marking time until retirement.

My oldest daughter has had two excellent Math teachers and two excellent Science teachers though so it has not all been a waste. Her Art and Consumer Science teachers have also been very good.

[MadHound]

17. It has been almost hard wired into our collective conciousness to bash teachers

After all, the media, government, politicians, pundits and virtually everybody of any position of authority in our society bashes teachers. It has become a knee jerk reflex.

This comes from the fact that teaching is a very low valued profession in our country. That is rooted in the history of teaching traditionally being "women's work". Thus the wages are low, the respect is low, and it is OK to bash teachers for every single thing, never mind the other factors that contribute much more to a poor education system in this country.

What we need is a change in conciousness regarding the teaching profession. We need to value teachers and education much like the Japanese do, ie putting education and teaching on par with doctors. We need to fully fund our education system, we need to pay teachers more in order to attract the best and brightest. We need to pay for the physical plant so that every student has a wonderful place to learn. We need to have parents start to value the education their children are getting and become involved with their child's education.

Instead we tie education to taxes, and in order to get any sort of money local school boards have to get a super majority of voters to vote for a school bond. This is ridiculous.

In essence, the education system needs money. Instead of starting pay being around $25,000-$30,000 it needs to be around $50,000. Tenured teachers (and yes, we need to keep tenure) should be paid in the six digits.

You take these measures and you will see education soar in this country.

But instead, we're going to continue to try and do education on the cheap, blame the teachers, and lose a generation of kids.

[Catshrink]

19. Wow!

This teacher thanks you for your support of our profession.

[MadHound]

62. You're welcome,

It's not just your profession, but mine as well. I went back to college in my mid life in order to become a teacher, graduate this spring and hopefully find a job. Not to mention both of my parents were teachers. It's kind of in the blood.

[MonkeyMama]

24. Yeah, what you said!

I will add that the anti-intellectual attitude of Americans in general contributes to the overall crappy state of education. A pretty good number of Americans see Sarah Palin as being the intellectual equivalent of President Obama which I consider a tragedy (this is way past laughable as far as I'm concerned). Meanwhile, we willingly pass tax increases to fund professional sports teams while our teachers are forced to purchase classroom supplies while struggling to pay rent. Sickening. What message are we sending children about the importance of education when we send them to disintegrating buildings with underpaid teachers who are expected to teach to unreasonably large class sizes and aren’t provided the most basic of resources? Even the best teacher struggles in these circumstances.

[liberalhistorian]

37. Amen! It makes me cry to think how hard my parents

worked for forty years and how little they received in return for it. My stepdad is now in a nursing home in only his mid-60's for dementia and most of his pension goes to his care, with the rest paid for by Medicaid. They graciously allowed mom to have a small part of his pension each month. He became ill in his late fifties, so he never even got to enjoy any kind of retirement.

They started teaching at a time when there were no teacher's unions and conditions and pay were generally horrid as a result. And yet even progressives often have no problem bashing teachers and their unions, with all the requisite RW talking points, which is beyond infuriating.

[Yurovsky]

39. and many are the SAME people...

who won't lift a finger to support the efforts of the teacher at home. If I hear another parent bitch about how much homework little Timmy has, I'm going to vomit. Teachers need involved parents to help provide one-on-one academic time that every kid needs and teachers simply can't provide enough of (given sheer size of most classrooms).

Many kids in my son's class think the minute they leave class that they should be plopped in front of a TV or a video game, and many of their uneducated parents are only too happy to accomodate them. When the prents down't value education and see the importance of their kids learning, you end up with another generation of uneducated Americans who aren't able to contribute to our society in a meaningful way (otherwise known as republicans....)

[tango-tee]

79. Agreed!!! I appreciated my son's teacher sending me a note

when as a teenager, my son brought half-finished homework back to school. It gave me the heads-up to check up on my son's work more, and also give him a helping hand with his algebra and geometry.

I also noticed with dismay during parent-teacher conferences, how few parents were present. As parents, we have to work WITH the teachers and the schools and not become disinterested or, as I have seen at times, downright hostile. Teamwork is the key. Parents also should not expect teachers to do a parent's job, teaching basic manners in some cases.

[LWolf]

61. +1

:(

[tonysam]

20. People who bitch about teachers

have absolutely NO idea how hard the job is. Unlike working in an office, you have to be "on" all the time; you can't daydream about what you're going to do for the weekend or think about the next deal you're going to cut with a client. You work with as many as 30-35 kids with all kinds of abilities for six hours a day, five days a week. If you're special ed, you may have fewer kids--sometimes as few as four or five--but they are "high maintenance" kids. One student, such as a severe autistic student, can equal about ten of the general student population. As a special ed teacher, you spend enormous amounts of time on clerical work, called "case management," whereby you fill out forms required by law, mail or deliver forms to parents as required by law, hold meetings with parents and other staff as required by law, and implement individual education plans as required by law or face lawsuits. If you work with younger students, lesson planning takes up a huge portion of your time; if you are secondary teacher, you may have as many as 120 students a day and spend hours and hours and hours on paperwork. Then you have meet state standards to make sure you are teaching what the state says you should be teaching. Then you have to keep going to school to keep your license current.

The worst part of the job by far is dealing with absolute assholes or incompetents for supervisors--principals--or people in the central office who really should belong in jail. These people tend to be completely unscrupulous in their jobs, and they have total power to destroy your career, which you spend YEARS preparing for, at the stroke of a pen.

[Catshrink]

25. or 150 kids, 30 at a time for an hour

and need to know each one's abilities, special needs plan (IEP) if they have one (and 25% of mine do), modify assignments for the ELL kids, grade the homework, monitor them, prepare lessons, lecture/present new material, keep kids on task, deal with the parents, attend meetings, work through lunch, take a ton of crap home every night, and do it all in a positive, uplifting, nurturing manner that invites children to learn and puts your school and district in the most positive glowing light.

And then listen to people teacher-bash about getting paid too much even though I'll most likely end up losing my house now that my salary will be cut ANOTHER 10% next year while the workload has increased. But hey, at least I have a job, right?

[tonysam]

29. Yep.

But the workplace harassment is the worst part of the job, if you have a principal who is so inclined. And if you do, you don't have a prayer of prevailing in any kind of grievance or termination hearing. If you're dumped, the union is of no help at all; forget Horace Mann and all of those other insurance outfits which supposedly protect teachers--you have to find an attorney willing to take your case on contingency--not an easy task by the way, as I am finding out.

[tonysam]

30. Don't forget all of the supplies you have to buy on your dime.

It's especially true for elementary and sped teachers. I easily spent over $1,000 a year buying materials for my students, and I didn't make enough money where it was worthwhile to deduct the expense from my taxes by itemizing. Now the tax forms have something like $250 you can write off.

[treestar]

26. Some people are just asses

From the President on down, they know how everyone else should do their jobs. Probably they are crappy at their own.

[Union Yes]

28. Life isn't easy for our teachers. Try teaching with shrinking budgets and NCLB breathing down..

their backs. They're required to perform better with less funding.

Teachers do the best they can with what little meager resources they have to work with.

We all owe a lot to our teachers.

Hat's off to these great Americans.

:patriot:

edit: knr

[liberalhistorian]

31. My parents were both teachers, so I grew up with

it and saw first-hand both what they dealt with and the complete lack of respect and understanding that most of society had and still has for them. It's one of the major reasons why I never went into teaching myself; no way was I gonna work my ass off like that only to get not just low compensation but little respect, understanding and appreciation and yet ALL of the blame for things, many of which are beyond a teacher's control (like if the kid gets decent meals, or is made to do their homework, etc., etc.).

[JackDragna]

34. This is what gets me, as a teacher..

..I know plenty of people who work in the private sector, and the number of them that are idiots or easily replaced cubicle jockeys for some big company is pretty high. I don't want to hear complaints about how "incompetent" teachers are from some 40-hours-a-week-and-I'm-done moron whose great contribution to life is filling out spreadsheets or answering a telephone.

[Iggo]

56. Zing!

:toast:
:fistbump:
:applause:
:rofl:

[Skittles]

73. those in that capacity in this economy are long gone, JD

at least where I work they are

[tblue37]

36. I have taught college English since 1972, and I also ran a home daycare

for 18 years when my own children were kids. While my kids were in elementary school, I also did volunteer teaching in their classrooms each week (the sort of work a paraprofessional dos nowadays). For example, I taught the reading and writing center once or twice a week in their kindergarten classes; math lessons in their first and second grade classes; reading lessons in their third grade classes--etc.

For 33 years I also have been tutoring people of all ages, from third grade to adult post-docs and professionals, many of them with learning disabilities of one sort or another. I tutor in all subjects, though I don't tutor math past 8th grade or sciences past 10th grade. In the humanities, I even work with professors and grad students in their own fields (though when I work with professors, that is called "consultation," not tutoring, because I am not "teaching" their subject to them, just helping them write their articles when they are weak writers). Although I am an agnostic, I once tutored a theology grad student who was studying to become a Methodist minister. She had trouble understanding the required readings, such as the writings by Luther, Wesley, and Calvin. Since I am widely read in comparative religions, I was able to teach her the readings she was finding hard to understand.

In other words, I am a very skilled teacher with a huge amount of teaching experience of varied types.

For the past 5 years my college teaching job has been a salaried full time position, but it is still an adjunct position, not tenure-track, so it doesn't pay anywhere near as well as a tenure-track position. Before that, it was a half-time position. In other words, I have always had to supplement my income with other sorts of work.

One year I also worked three days a week as a substitute teacher in our town's elementary schools, moving from school to school as needed. That was by far the most difficult teaching gig I have ever had. In fact, it was the most difficult job of any sort that I have ever had!

First of all, innumerable rules prevent teachers from exercising any real authority in the classroom, so the teacher must find a way to control the classroom without ever doing anything to annoy any child, because that child might well go home and complain to his parents that the teacher has said or done something inappropriate, thus inviting a lawsuit against the teacher and often the school as well.

Students are incredibly savvy now about what they can say to get a teacher into trouble, so even when teachers are careful never to say or do anything that might cause a lawsuit, the student with a grudge might well say that the teacher did such a thing, and that student’s friends are likely to back him or her up. If a teacher is well liked enough, other students will come to the teacher’s defense and counter the accusation, but some teachers are not popular specifically because they try to maintain control of the classroom and actually teach. On my Teacher, Teacher site I have an article entitled “The Inmates Are Running the Asylum": http://www.teacherblue.homestead.com/inmates.html

In it I describe some of what I saw while teaching in the public schools. After that year, I knew that no amount of money would ever persuade me to go back into a public school classroom!

When I worked in my kids’ grade school classrooms in the 1980s and 1990s, the teacher still had some authority in the classroom, but when I went back into the public schools in 2003, that was no longer the case. Many kids in the room were completely uncontrollable, and the teachers’ only recourse was to send them out of the room to the principal’s office, since there was virtually nothing the teacher would be allowed to say or do to get the child under control. The students who were trying to learn were constantly pestered and distracted by those who wanted to horse around.

Go read my article. I couldn’t fit in every awful thing I saw, but there are enough stories there to knock you back on your heels. I am amazed that anyone survives teaching in the public schools today, and I am not at all surprised that so many teachers burn out within five years of beginning to teach.

I think public school teachers should get huge raises plus combat pay. Even with all my experience successfully handling children and teaching, I had trouble even maintaining order in my classes. Then, on top of that, I had to get through detailed lesson plans left by the teachers I was subbing for. The fact that those teachers manage all that and go back day after day to do so is astonishing. We owe them not just a lot more money, but an enormous debt of gratitude!

(BTW, if you read my article, be sure to read down to the part where I describe how a 4th-grader in one of our school broke the principal's wrist. His clueless mother then said it was the teacher's and pricipal's fault, because her child wasn't violent!)

[MonkeyMama]

53. Holy friggin crap...

When I read stories like that, I wonder why the principal, teacher and parents of the other children in class don't sue the parents of the violent child (obviously, I'm not a lawyer) - they are putting a lot of people in danger by not at least disclosing that the child has violent tendencies (an uncontrolled rage like that isn't news) - I'm a little tired of irresponsible people always having the upper hand when it comes to the threat of a law suit (it's a hang-up of mine). That child clearly has needs beyond what a traditional classroom can provide and the parents need... well, they need something. I have a good friend who is a first grade teacher and this school year has been particularly challenging to her because of one child whose parents are in the midst of a divorce; this child is constantly acting out (there was an instance of chair throwing) which leads to the inevitable recruitment of other kids into the poor behavior which disrupts the entire class which leads to... you get the picture. In meeting after meeting with these parents, they tell my friend that their child doesn't feel "respected" by the teacher. WTF? Divorce happens all the time but it doesn't alleviate you of the responsibility of parenting your child. Our teachers need our support.

[Union Yes]

38. ******* THANK YOU TEACHERS FOR WHAT YOU DO! ***********

[Starry Messenger]

42. Thank you.

Heck, even before I was a teacher I never thought I could waltz right in and be a teacher. I did have some naive ideas about the eagerness of students to learn and pay attention and have developed strategies to keep them on task and engaged--that takes a tremendous amount of social engineering and planning. People who come from the corporate side of things seem to thing that they can run a classroom like a staff meeting. They forget that the students are not handpicked for the "firm" and are not paid to be there. It's a totally different dynamic.

[Igel]

43. I have limited experience as an adult with public school teachers.

The kid's in kindergarten.

I've taken half of a teacher's ed program, and there's a horrible mix of lecturers, guest speakers, etc., showing utter condescension or healthy respect for parents. Some of them point out that their jobs isn't easy so they need some slack cut; many of the same ones cut parents no slack, as though parenting is a snap.

Our area's working class, uneducated, and most of the parents push education as a job skill but have no respect for what education actually offer. You go to college for the letters on the job application not the content.

So I go into the first parent/teacher's conference and the condescension is fairly palpable. Our kid started K not knowing many of his letters, few of his numbers, and with horrible motor skills. At some point she asked something about books in the house, and I said we had a lot. Most of them aren't in English. But we're not immigrants. That eventually led to what my wife and I did, and when I said my wife was faculty at a local university and I was a translator her attitude changed notably. I was "in the club". No condescension. Instead we were on the same side.

[Odin2005]

46. It's hard for me to respect teachers when I have PTSD from being emotionally abused by them.

And about half my teachers were half-wit simpletons. I had one geography teacher that thought that the Bering Straight land bridge was "back when Pangaea was around". :eyes:

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[Taitertots]

51. If everyone substitutes for a week then every teacher should work in another field

Lets have every teacher become a police officer during the summer, or a firefighter.


If a teacher fails, what will happen? I used to work with chemicals that would burn your skin off if you touched them. You could quite literally die at any moment. They were so nasty they would heat up and start on fire if left sitting in an open container.


Are you really surprised that people who risk their lives working incredibly hard for comparable wages don't respect teachers? How many times have you almost died at work?

[tonysam]

57. Most of us have, Taitertots.

Don't assume something you don't know.

You in the business world have it easy by comparison.

I've done both, including physical labor.

And no career other than public education teaching blackballs teachers from the entire system--13,000 districts nationwide--if they are terminated. Few teachers are fired for true misconduct.

It doesn't happen with cops, it doesn't happen with firefighters. They can stay in their careers unless there is something truly egregious.

[MadHound]

58. I've worked as a firefighter,

I've worked in a printing press, in a nuclear power plant. I've walked the road you have and then some.

Still the most difficult job that I've had is teaching. Why? Because when dealing with a fire, or hazardous chemicals or radioactive substances you always have a crutch to fall back on, your training. It is drilled into you to the point where it takes over when the shit is hitting the fan.

Tell me though, what training is drilled into you to the point of instinct to deal with a child who has just watched their father kill himself in front of them? How do you reach that kid, much less teach them. Yet these are the types of situations teachers deal with every day.

It is easy to charge into a burning building, all it takes is courage and lots of training. Teaching, you have to become an expert in many different areas in order to deal with an endless list of situations. Huge difference.

[wickerwoman]

76. Most teacher have worked a number of jobs

either to put themselves through school or to earn extra wages in the summer.

I've worked on a farm shoveling pig shit and operating heavy machinery, in several factories including some around toxic chemicals, cleaning the mens' toilets at Home Depot, in an internet start-up working 80 hours a week with unpaid overtime...

The most physically exhausting and stressful job I have ever had was substituting in a kindergarten.

It's one thing to put yourself in danger. It's another thing to spend all day trying to keep 15 tiny people with *no* sense of personal danger from cracking their skulls open, running into traffic, peeing all over themselves and/or breaking each others' fingers.

Also, are you expected to have a masters degree to be a policeman or fireman? The job may be more physically dangerous, but you're also generally not going into it with $40,000 worth of student loans to work off.

[paulsby]

52. i could say the same thing about cops BUT

fwiw, poll after poll people respect teachers amongst the top of all professions (cops near the top too)

[RedCappedBandit]

54. I have nothing but respect for educators

An educated populace is the most important piece of our society.


My college has a huge school of education. I know many very gifted people earning their degree. I also know a few who are pretty weak academically.. but their persona and ability to work with children make up for it.

[Iggo]

55. This is America. Land of people who are proud to be uneducated.

What did you expect?

[LWolf]

59. I'd love to see every one of them spend, not just a day,

but a year being responsible for teaching, and managing, a classroom of students.

If only we could do that without punishing students.

It would make damned great reality tv, with the public watching every agonizing moment in the classroom, with students, in meetings, doing paperwork, etc..

Who would get voted off the island then?

Even more entertaining if it were the politicians and "business" leaders pushing reforms.

[MadHound]

63. No. I think that a day will do, at most a week,

That is if you put them into a middle school classroom. I love middle school, that's where I want to teach, but it drives most people right up a wall. The drama, the hormones, the rebelliousness, most people simply can't deal with it and run screaming within a day. Me, I'm like a fish in water, it's fun.

[LWolf]

68. I have to agree about middle school.

Drama, hormones, rebellions and all, I enjoy it. :D

[Are_grits_groceries]

80. That's the group I taught.

Whenever I mention that age group to somebody, they roll their eyes and grimace. I loved teaching them most of the time. They were still fun in a lot of ways. It was hilarious watching them discover other boys and girls. The girls tended to mature faster, and then at the end of school suddenly the boys seemed to wake up and realize what was going on.

I have watched teachers from higher grades literally shrink in horror when they wandered down to our subschool. They looked like deer in the headlights.

Trained middle school teachers are the hardest teachers to find. At education job fairs, those lines are the shortest if they even have lines.

[ctaylors6]

64. some kids fit better with a particular teacher; I've complained about only one

My kids have attended excellent public schools for several years. In that time, I've complained about only one teacher, who I later found out was one of the few considered problematic by the school's administrators. Otherwise, I try my hardest to support them through PTA activities that support the teachers (fundraising for teacher-related projects) and by doing my best as the parent role in the education process.

I've had a few friends who've talked to our principal about their child's fit with the teacher they were given. For example, a particularly shy child that ended up fitting better with a warm teacher that drew the child out of her shell. But those weren't complaints as much as requests.

I come from a family with lots of teachers. I know how hard it is and try very hard to make sure my kids' teachers never feel like it's a thankless job.

[liberal_at_heart]

65. Teachers are no different than any other group of people on the planet

There are teachers that are fantastic and inspire kids. There are those who are good teachers. There are those who could do better, and there are those who are bad at what they do. We can't look at the whole group of teachers and assume that they are all bad or all good.

[Iggo]

66. So I can't blame my whole crappy life...

...on that one sucky teacher I had for one semester back in 1976?

DAMN!

[Roon]

67. My sister is an elementary school principal

but she taught for many years before that. One of her students once had an ankle bracelet on. I don't know how she does it.

[flvegan]

69. My mother taught senior high school english for 23 years.

That also means that a great many family friends were teachers and their families.

Having seen it first hand since the age of 9, I probably respect no profession more than that of teacher.

[RobinA]

70. Ya Know What?

I am sick of hearing about teachers. Do teachers have it tough? Yes. But there are other people in this world who work in tough jobs. I work in a psychiatric hospital. Do my coworkers and I get a discount at Borders? No. Do I get discounts on classes at my local college? No. The same state that doesn't give teachers the supplies they need doesn't give us the supplies we need, either. We pretty much buy our own office supplies. We buy stuff and donate stuff for our patients, who have not much to nothing. And we get paid a whole helluva lot less with the same Masters degrees. The things we see and hear? The chance of getting injured? Don't even think of going there. Respect? None

Teachers? Tough job. Welcome to the club. Now stop telling me about your battlefield conditions and be glad you get paid more than a lot of other people who work in battlefields.

[teacher gal]

74. Ya know what?

I think if teachers were surveyed, you'd find the vast majority would have great respect and empathy for you and others in your particular battlefield. I do not doubt that it is really tough and I don't think I could do it. I'm sure I couldn't.

You are right, teachers are not the only ones who have a tough job and there are lots of hurting Americans who don't even have a job at all now. But I'd rather see Americans from many walks of life band together and support one another rather than succumb to divide and conquer. I think that strategy (divide and conquer)works very well for the ruling elite.

I hope I'm not offending you. I do understand your irritation at our whining! We sure as heck aren't perfect. Frankly, I've gotten a little weary of my own whining.

[Vidar]

71. K&R.

[earth mom]

75. Problem is as a parent, once you've been burnt by a bad teacher, you get leery.

I have friends that are teachers and I respect them and some other teachers I know greatly, but those bad apples really leave a bad taste.

[Betty Karlson]

77. Kicked and recommended! N/T

[tango-tee]

78. Teaching is a profession I've always known I couldn't handle.

I'm too impatient, have all the wrong personality "prerequisites".

And my hat is off to all the good teachers out there, who give their best with often very little encouragement and in environments that would send some know-it-alls screaming into the night.

On edit, after reading several more posts: Nearly 40 years after graduating from high school, several old friends and I are still in touch with our favorite teacher. He was wonderful, and had a lot of influence on our thinking as teenagers. An absolutely gifted man!