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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 09:21 PM
Original message
I have a problem with faggots
The first time I was called a faggot was in first grade. A stray dog had crawled under our porch and had puppies and I wanted to take my favorite one to school for show and tell. I carried a small black puppy the half mile up our gravel lane to the bus stop, but the driver wouldn't let me on with a dog. Bawling and screaming, I ran back home carrying the puppy with the bus driver and my brother in hot pursuit. Mom met us at the edge of our property, took the dog and sent me back to the bus with the driver. Still crying, I took my seat and the high school jock in front of me turned around and disdainfully said, "Shut up, you stupid little faggot. Boys don't cry." The entire busload of kids laughed at me and showered me with a chorus of "Faggot!"s. It took me three days to find out what it meant.

I didn't touch that puppy again. I insisted we keep the small brown one instead.

I have a problem with faggots.

In fifth grade we did a production of Swiss Family Robinson and I was picked to play the father. I was proud to be chosen for such an important role and practiced every night. During rehearsal one day, I was giving it my all and using hand gestures to dramatically illustrate the character's dialogue. While I earned praise from the teacher, when I took my seat again another boy two rows back whispered "Faggot!" loud enough for the class to hear, but not the teacher. The class twittered and giggled at me.

I couldn't say the words anymore. I would stand on stage, my cue long past, the words frozen by that single, whispered word. Another boy took my place and I was relegated to a non-speaking role. I pretended to be sick on performance night so I wouldn't have to watch him do my part. Me. The faggot.

I have a problem with faggots

"Faggot Kid! You don't know what real marriage is!" -- a teacher at Glen Waverly Secondary College to a student who questioned why the teacher was ripping down posters for a gay rights rally. (10/20/09)

rest of absolutly heartrending post at

http://www.bilerico.com/2009/10/i_have_a_problem_with_faggots.php
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capndanger Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. wow. just wow.
D:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
78. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Glad to see this cross posted
in General Discussion. More people need to read it.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Children of middle school age and high school age
are usually so rigid and so afraid of anything that upsets their apple cart that they can be incredibly rude. I'm really sorry this happened.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. This isn't about childhood bullies
It is about a lifetime of hatred, rejection, discrimination, and abuse.

I stayed at a homeless shelter only once. Three men raped and beat me, calling me "faggot" over and over and over as they shoved my head into a bucket of dirty mop water until I quit struggling. I stared at the pockmarked concrete floor of the utility closet while they took turns fucking me and hitting me with a broom handle until I lost consciousness. Bruised and bleeding, I came to myself and crawled into the hallway where I met one of the attackers walking out of the restroom. "Get on your feet, faggot," he said to me as he hit me across the face.

I spoke to the police. They did nothing. Men can't get raped. Since I was a "faggot," I'd probably begged the attackers to rape me.

That night I attempted suicide.

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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
59. Teachers are just as guilty
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 12:46 PM by Joe Bacon
Bad enough I heard "Faggot" all the way through high school from kids. It hurt more when teachers spit out that word at me, and then they had the whole class join in. Even worse was the asshole Football coach whose every other word to me was either "faggot", "queer" or "Homo", Still remember when that asshole praised the kids who beat me endlessly in the locker room.

The happiest day of my life was the last day of high school when I walked out the door. There was no difference between me walking out of that schoolhouse or a Jew walking out of Aushcwitz. I had that torture from 6th-12th grade. Left me with a lifelong hatred of public education. Every time I go to the ballot box and look at the school bond initiatives, I get post traumatic stress disorder. I actually break out in panic attacks. Then I always vote NO on school bonds.

I wish I could care about schools, but there is nothing they could ever do that would make me lift a finger to help them.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #59
79. Left me with a lifelong hatred of public education.
Public education, huh?

I was called "faggot" 24/7 at the boarding school my parents sent me to.
My "favorite" prank was one spring, I left my window to my room open when I went to classes. When I got back for lunch, my room was FULL, of the cow manure they fertilized the fields with. No one did anything about it. Like no one saw people throwing cow manure into my open window for the time it must have taken. Indeed it was never mentioned. Thus sending the signal these things were OK to do to me.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. In our school district we are diligent in our attempts to dispel
the negative connotations associated with the words, "gay" and "faggot." It's especially difficult correcting young children who really don't know the meaning of what they're saying and are just parroting what they've heard at home or on the street.
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maseman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
49. That's a great point
I'll be the first to admit I used the word "fag" or "faggot" in school like everyone else I knew. It really was not used in a denotative state but a connotative state. I'm not defending it but frankly I really didn't comprehend the word. I didn't know any gay people and until about high school I really didn't even knew it existed.

It wasn't until I was 18 and off to college I started realizing people were sometimes homosexual. Once I was old enough to realize that it existed I never used the words again.
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maseman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
50. Duplicate post sorry trigger happy
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 10:50 AM by maseman
Duplicate post sorry.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for this. n/t
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. Wow. I was called a faggot since 1st grade too.
Funny, since I had no idea what sex or sexuality was at 5. Guess all the upperclassmen in my school knew something I didn't.
I would be the living shit out of the person who calls me one today.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
80. Funny, since I had no idea what sex or sexuality was at 5.
Me too. I was called "queer" a lot. I thought it meant something like stupid. My older sister finally pulled me aside (in the 2nd or 3rd grade) and told me what it meant.
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brewens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. I never make derogatory comments toward gay people but
do occasionally need to express my loathing of right-wing closet homosexuals. There should be a vicious and offensive (to them and their supporters)term that wouldn't offend other gay people. Any suggestions?
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I don't really understand your post
What makes you think that they're in the closet? The fact that they're right-wing? And if they are anti-gay right-wingers but are secretly gay themselves, why do you need an insult specific to their sexuality? Isn't the fact that they're right-wingers and hypocrites enough?
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brewens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. I suppose that should be enough. n/t
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. But Fishwax, you just don't understand!
You don't understand how much FUN it is to humiliate someone by insulting their manhood by calling them gay.

Don't you understand how Great is imply that a guy is Girly? Because we all know being gay means being Girly right? And we could talk for days about why no guy would ever want to be called a girl, right? So hit him with a gay tag and a girl tag at the same time, that's like you hit his twice and get Bonus Points!!

And you can imply that it's all his fault, because shit like that is always their own fault. Anyone who acts that way deserves whatever they get, right? Isn't that the way it works?


:sarcasm: I know this isn't really needed, but just in case. :sarcasm:


That's why straight men (and many women) will never stop gayness and perceived or imagined feminine traits as insults.

Btw, :hi:
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. pretty sad, alright
But never seems to end x(



Hi, ThomCat :hi:
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brewens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. I was referring to my tendency to take shots at Republicans I know
that listen to Rush Limbaugh and, being in Idaho, voted for Larry Craig. They being right-wingers and being against gay rights but being big fans of guys like that. Not to mention Bush and his buddy Jeff Gannon, but I guess I just did.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. There's a word for people like that
"Dumbass"

It fits both genders, all races, all ages, all sexualities, all creeds and economic classes.

Anyone can be a dumbass. it's multi-purpose and versatile!

DUMBASS™ - the insult for the new millennium
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. The best option is to avoid using any kind of slurs. Period.
Insulting someone by implying they're somehow one of _______ always means you are insulting some entire group of _______, whoever _______ are.

In fact, they are getting insulted more than the republican, because he's apparently only bad to the extent that he's sort of like them. So those people who really are them must be worse, right?

If you really need to insult a someone just use the direct approach and use facts. Is he a liar? Is he manipulative? Is he evasive? Is he avoiding real responsibility? Hit him for that shit?

That way, not only are you insulted him, you are also punching a hole in his moral armor, giving him a very public image issue he has to fix
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
53. I believe the term is "hypocrite"
and I'm more than happy to hit the fuckers with that word.
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plantwomyn Donating Member (779 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. +++++++1!
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. I find it hard to recommend something so painful.
But everyone must read it.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. wow -- k/r
:kick:
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Recommended
it hurts to read this, but we can't afford to forget where we're at.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. I was a weird clumsy aspergers kid but "faggot" was the most common schoolyard taunt I suffered.
Followed closely by "queer" as in "queer-bait" or worse. I got beat up a couple of times too because I've never been one to hold my tongue. I fled high school just as soon as I could.

In college my first serious relationship was with a woman who hadn't yet accepted her own sexual preference for women and was still bound by her Eastern Orthodox religious beliefs. She was dating me to prove to herself and her family she wasn't lesbian, and I guess I was dating her to prove that I wasn't gay, even though I'm heterosexual in an 80/20 sort of way, and heterosexual monogamous in a 100% way . But my ex-girlfriend's mom was the last person who ever called me queer, and she blamed me for not showing her daughter what a "real man" was. Holy Crap, I wasn't "man enough" because I wasn't fucking "the gay" out of her daughter!!! Meanwhile her daughter was bringing home these junkie-waif women to sleep with, which is why we broke up. Twice. The final time a real doozey when I jumped out of her moving car and slid down the streets of Berkeley leaving a nice trail of skin, blood, sweat, and tears.

My own family was entirely gay friendly in a Hollywood sort of way. I think if I'd expressed any interest in men my grandma would have tried to set me up with some cute guys, so I guess in my socially inept autistic spectrum way I never really was worried as much about my own sexual preferences as others were.

I never suffered the true horrors of being gay in this society, but I guess I saw enough of it that my rainbow flag here on DU is very important to me.

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
39. Now this made me laugh.
"Holy Crap, I wasn't "man enough" because I wasn't fucking "the gay" out of her daughter!!!"
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win_in_06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
47. Hmmmmm
I wasn't "man enough" because I wasn't fucking "the gay" out of her daughter!!! Meanwhile her daughter was bringing home these junkie-waif women to sleep with, which is why we broke up.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This is grounds for marriage, not breaking up. What were you thinking????
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. Incredibly powerful piece.
The amount of hate for GBLT people in this country is overwhelming. :(
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
74. Overwhelming and still surprising to even me, as jaded as I am.
Which is why seeking redress through any ballot initiative is insane.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. I don't like that word.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. k & R & Shared
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. Unfortunately, "faggot," "retard," "queer," and "tard" are all too commonly used ...
Edited on Sat Jan-30-10 11:56 PM by TexasObserver
Unfortunately, "faggot," "retard," "queer," and "tard" are all too commonly used to bully children perceived to be different, shy, or impaired, but are also used to bully children who are gay or might have some impairment or condition. Parents have to expunge the language from their child's vocabulary by insisting such taunts not be used, and must also stand up to others for using such terms.

When my kids were in high school, one was involved in a stage production. One of the players was a gay young man who was also oversized and Jewish. So much for bullies to pick on. But the person who was taunting of this child was a mother of another student. I won't repeat the things she said, but after my teen told me, I called her up, spoke to her and asked her if she had said what was reported. She didn't deny it. I asked her to apologize to the kid. She refused, so I called the school and went to see the principal.

When the principal failed to act promptly, I called a friend at ADL, went to their office, and laid it out for them, providing names, dates, places, phone numbers, addresses and summaries of each person's role or knowledge. They jumped all over it, kicked everyone's ass, and got the kid his apology.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. I am very glad you were able to find someone to step in and
get something done.

Fortunately, she was honest. I think it all hinged on the mother admitting that she had really said what your teen reported. If that mother had denied it, I don't know that there would have been anything anyone could have really done.

In many situations the bully will deny every having said or done anything afterward, so even if someone wants to help they can't.

And in many situations people don't have anyone helpful to go to. They only get people like principal, who doesn't act on it. :(

It is unfortunate, but most bullies get away with it. Most of the time, the bullies win.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I should have mentioned I talked to the attacked boy's mother first.
I felt I should make sure she knew and gauge her desire for action. She wanted something done, but didn't feel up to tangling with the school or the other mother, whose husband was a local power figure.

The threat of media exposure often works when other threats will not. No school official wants a TV remote van parked out in front of the school, waiting to interview students about the scandal of the day.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
57. Good for you and us too!
Now if we saw more actions like this.

I too went through a lot growing up. I left home 4 hours after graduation and only have been back a few times 30 yrs since and that only for grandparents funerals. I have also been through a lot of stuff as an adult too. Fired a number of times, attempted murder, beatings and having some kreestians try to burn a cross on my yard, and my wooden house since they propped the cross against it before trying to light it

The pastor at our Southern Talibaptist church outed me as gay and hiv during an Easter service, when my parents had gone to him for counseling after I told them.

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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
19. I hate faggots with the white-hot intensity of ten thousand suns
goddamned bundles of sticks keep coming loose and scratching my arms up and shit. :sarcasm:
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
37. I hate bassoons.
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
20. God,that hit me.What a powerful piece..I hope he found some healing in writing it.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
21. K&R.
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
24. dsc
I do and always will love you.
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
26. thats one of a number of bully name calls.
and yeah been called a faggot myself years ago. In the middle of a Lutheran High School as well. just because I worded something wrong. (long before I was diagnosed with ADD) So embarrassed by that I won't utter it here either.

Faggot wasn't a homosexual slur , it was a name calling event.


As far as guys crying, just love seeing that one show from time to time with the rough guys and tattoo's , getting call choked up over how someone mistreats animals on that show on I think animal planet. So a big **** you to some of my former bullies (some might have had shit daddies. I'm not psychic how would I know) Put a smile on your face and be on your way.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
64. Funny, girls are never called faggots in those name calling events.
I know that you're saying the usage didn't feel connected to homosexuality but it was connected with inferiority or weakness just like a litany of other slurs hurled at men for being somewhat less than REAL men. It's so pervasive that kids using the terms don't even think about it.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. because there is a deep-rooted sexism inherently in said taunts
The point of boys calling other boys anti-gay slurs also has an underlying (if not obvious) dig by saying the targets of such attacks are less than men, and therefore like women. I know I am painting with a broad brush perhaps, but there's some serious truth there too. Most homophobes I know are also deeply sexist, therefore the very idea that a man would do things normally done by a woman is just unthinkable and wrong to them. They seem to see homosexuality (or any form of deviance from the norm, including straight men who dance or cook or wear funky clothes) as threatening and as someone who chooses to take on the traits of a woman, and therefore a weakness to be punished and scorned.

That's my take on it, anyway.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. I think it's both sexism and homophobia learned from adults
but with kids it's also rooted in fear of being different.
IOW, I agree.
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AzNick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
31. Next time you see these bulliers say: "can you supersize it?" to celebrate
90% changes these guys are managers at McD's now.

Guys who used to bully me, when I learned about what they became, turn out to be nothing. Boring life, boring jobs, lockdown marriage.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #31
89. Unfortunately, it seems as if way too many of those people are in the US Senate. n/t
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Alias Dictus Tyrant Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
32. huh. I don't have a problem with them.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. you may need to read the post, not just the title
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Stumbler Donating Member (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
35. Wow. What a heart-rending story..
It's stories like this that make me lose faith in humanity. As for myself, I stayed in the closet until college, knowing full well what I could expect if I chose to come out in high school. And I guess I was 'lucky' to be considered one of the funny kids, who was able to befriend the bullies rather than be one of the taunted. Still (and I'm sure this is likely selective memory) I don't recall the term 'faggot' being used as much as 'retard' or 'idiot' while growing up. But then again, when a friend or acquaintance openly used that term I considered them open fodder, feeling free to make jokes at their expense, thus alienating them from 'the group.' Regardless, the use of any of those terms is incredibly harmful and hurtful.

Looking back, I'm still not sure I took the right path. It was certainly safer, and saved me from any potential name-calling, beatings and nosebleeds. But at the same time, I can acknowledge that it has stunted my emotional growth, as well as causing me to steer well-clear of any potentially "gay" hobbies in my early years that I probably would have enjoyed, such as theater and dancing. Such is life; we each choose our own course and pay our own penalties...

Yhanks again for sharing such a heart-breaking story. I think this world would be a better place if the childhood bullies left their taunts in the schoolyard, but it seems many carry them on into adulthood only to pass them onto their own children. *sigh*
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
36. can't imagine how many of the ones doing the calling have ended up in the covers with other guys

Can oft times be self-loathing or an attempt to hide any possible impression they might have inner desires such as attraction to others in the same gender.

Thanks for posting.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #36
91. I really dislike that answer
because, while it may sometimes be true, using it as a blanket statement essentially says (or at least strongly implies) that homophobes are all gay people. So straight people aren't homophobic. Straight people aren't the problem, gay people are the problem.

Whether intended or not, that's just blaming the victims. It's redirecting blame to gay people. It's taking all the attention away from the very possibility that straight people could be homophobic, absolving straight people from any responsibility. It's also just not the reality.

A whole lot of straight people really are homophobic. The majority, in fact. A whole lot of Straight people do discriminate against us given any opportunity, and do bash us, and do use slurs when talking about us, and do deny us our rights every chance they get.

Whether intended or not, it has also always been common for white people historically to blame black people for racism, and men to blame women for sexism, so of course we should expect straight people will find ways to blame LGBT people for homophobia. It seems to be normal for the majority to blame the victims for prejudices.

....

I'm going to be a bit of a geek and put it into numbers. It's statistically impossible for it to be true very often that homophobes are closet cases.

There just aren't that many of us (LGBT people) compared to all of the straight people to begin with, and most of us are already out. The most generous estimates say that straight people outnumber us by 6:1. There are at least 6 straight people for each LGBT person. Some estimates go up to 12:1.

But the important number is how many LGBT people who are in the closet, compared to the number of straight people. I'm going to guess that at most 1:7 of LGBT people are in the closet at any one time. That means that the number of people in the closet compared to straight people, drops to 42:1. There is 1 person in the closet for 42 straight people or so.

You can see that people in the closet are just far too rare to account for any phenomenon as widespread and frequent as homophobia. Homophobia is usually measuring in the +50% range. Even if Every single kid who was still in the closet was acting out in vicious homophobic ways (which is an absurd assumption) and assuming that half of all straight people could not be homophobic (which is being incredibly generous) that still means that straight people more than 20x more likely to be the homophobes. So straight people need to take responsibility for that.

And frankly, if a few people in the closet are so traumatized by the idea of being gay that they are freaking out and acting homophobic, it's because of the intense homophobic environment created around them by straight people, and straight people need to take responsibility for that too. Homophobia fucks people up! :(
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
38. A faggot is what a bundle of twigs is called.....
And these bundles were thrown on a bonfire to make it flame higher.

When the "New" religion of Christianity became popular, they started getting rid of their competition for leading the people.

They then began a campaign of vile and evil propaganda and they started vilifying the priests and priestesses and leaders of the old religion and ways.....the Witches.

You know,...just like what is being done to the Palestinians or the Muslims or anyone with dark skin today.

Witches (midwives, herbalist, healers, teachers) were burned at the stake in the middle of bonfires and the gay children or adult gay of either sex, etc. were also tied up and thrown onto the bonfire along with anyone else they wanted to be rid of.

Remember that in most cases, the accuser and the "judges" got to split the property of their victims.

This is where the name "faggot" came from when referring to a gay person.

It was an terrible evil thing to say and do then...
and it still is.

IMO, those that use that term along with any other racial slur are the trouble with the earth and the main doers of the evil that plagues this planet.
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marcmanv007 Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #38
51. A fag is also a cigarette
Remember calling a cigarette a "Fag"? tell them whoever calls you that yeah and just like a cigarette, you can "Suck me!"
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #51
82. although I am not gay...I think that is a good reply....
People must stand up to bullies.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
40. K & R
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WVRICK13 Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
41. So Do I
I too suffered the same kind of abuse at the hands of both other children and adults. I think the year it finally pushed me too far was in the 7th grade. During the first week of school a senior football player (we had 7 through 12 in one school) stopped me in the hallway between classes with his buddies and called me faggot, he then knocked my books out of my hands and kicked them down the hallway. Luckily I managed to hold onto my clipboard that I promptly held in both hands, drew back and hit him in the face. It flattened his nose pretty well. His friends were freaked when I calmly said, "this faggot just beat your ass." My parents were called to the school and my father said, "lets see, a 13 year old who is 5'8" and 110 pounds just creamed your star senior football player who is over 6' and 200 pounds, I'd think you should recruit him for the team." The school backed down. After spending the week thinking about it I sought the counsel of the priest, being an alter boy I trusted him. The priest told me that I was doomed to hell with no chance of redemption. I guess that was the week that changed my life. I replied to the priest, "fuck you and fuck your god, I refuse to believe in anyone who doesn't believe in me. From that day forward I never denied being gay and refused to take any shit for it. It was amazing, I had more friends than ever and most of them were straight jocks.

The problem with the actions that forced me into standing up are the very same ones that crush some children, damaging their self esteem and dignity. Not every child is raised by parents who demand only that their child be an individual and follow their own drummer. If an adult cannot nurture a child they at least have the obligation to do no harm.
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rpd123 Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
42. ahhh memories
When I was really little my father made me join the local football team. Naturally none of the kids on the team liked me because I had no interest in playing.
I dont remember why but one of the kids started a fight with me and I kicked him in the shin. He went to the coach. The coach called me over. He seemed really angry and I was sure we were both in trouble for fighting.
He asked me if it was true that I kicked the other boy and I said yes. Then he looked at me as if he didnt get me and said something like "You're not a girl, you don't kick-you hit" I was absolutley shocked because even as a small child I knew the lesson he should have been teaching was -as a responsible adult- 'Dont fight' Instead his message was 'Dont be a fag'
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
85. Kicking's for girls? Really?
Well I hope the coach was out of earshot of this guy.

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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
43. Oh man - what a great GREAT post. nt
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
45. I have a problem with hate. n/t
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
46. "Faggot"; it's not just for queers...
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 10:22 AM by MindPilot
I was a tech at a car dealer when someone for some reason decided to use a magic marker and write "FAGGOT" under my name on all my uniform shirts. I was so pissed I wore the shirt without making any attempt to clean it off. Guess who got fired for that one? Yep, married heterosexual me.

And then there was the Navy psychiatrist who seemed genuinely surprised that being raped with a map handle while aboard ship had not made me "turn gay". (No, I am not making that up.)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
48. Damn
:cry:
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
52. The experiences may be different, but the reaction and feelings are EXACT...
...been there...
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
54. Far from having to worry about FAGGOTS proslytizing, it.s hetero's that do so
It is the bludgeon that is used on all the insecure{all teens}, to enforce the gender gap, and steer from queer. Not just satisfied to stop gay{or any emotion} they want to keep girls as subordinate. What can be worse, than acting like a girl? I believe a significant portion of this is in our culture, as the vestigial SPARTA. WE do so, as we are afraid that our precious boys will be unable to kill en masse for us.
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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
56. ugh, that hit me like a ton of bricks...
when i was about 13, a neighborhood kid called my mom a dyke. she was 12. i beat the crap out of her while her brother and my sisters stood their shocked. i didn't really know what dyke meant, but i knew it wasn't nice for someone to call my mom that just because she had a girlfriend.
i got grounded for a week. now, normally i'd have been grounded for a month or more...but my mom and her girlfriend had kind of a chuckle about it-they were not happy i expressed myself in such a way, but they also realized that they now had a daughter that would defend them to the end.
ugh, i can't stand those words.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
58. K&R
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plantwomyn Donating Member (779 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
60. The reason that this word is used to bully and degrade
is because it is still so accepted by society. It is telling to me that even as they rile against the use of the word, most here and in the world at large have no problem spelling the word faggot. But here and in the bilerico comments, no one would spell our "the N word". Not even black people that may use the "N word" among themselves will spell it out. This is because even the bigots recognize that it is unacceptable. But not so for FAGGOT. It is accepted by society at large and the posts here and @ bilerico prove this to be true.
Kids today know what words are acceptable to use, no matter what they hear at home. Back in the day, the "N word" was a perfectly acceptable slur for kids to use. Not so today. These kids know that calling someone a nigger is unacceptable but calling someone a faggot is just fine.

We are the last bastion for bigots. We are the last minority that it is acceptable for them to demean, target and subjugate.

Until society at large stands up and makes this kind of abusive language unacceptable, our kids will continue to use this slur to mean "stupid" "weak" "girlie". Society still accepts the idea that being female/GLBT = less than. Our society needs to change this "less than" dynamic and the vocabulary we use with each other. We need to make people understand that they belittle themselves by using this abusive language. We need to show kids and adults what they are saying about themselves when they feel empowered by bullying people who, by using this slur, they acknowledge they see as weaker than they are.

Standing on the neck of someone else to raise yourself out of the mire is cowardice.
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MilitarismFTL Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
61. This is sooo sad
Showing it to my family.
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undergroundnomore Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
62. I had
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 01:32 PM by undergroundnomore
to write up a student recently for calling another student that name. (Sorry it's hard for me to even type the word let alone say it). I do not like bullying of any kind. I don't tolerate the N word in my class or the F word.

Students should be able to come to school and expect that they will not be taunted or teased. Parents should expect that their child is safe in my classroom. I will admit that there is no possible way I can know what happens outside of my classroom but I won't allow bullying in my class.

My nephew is Gay but really that's just a side note just like the fact that I'm a heterosexual. Gay does not define him any more than brown hair or brown eyes. Sure brown hair, brown eyes, and his sexual orientation are a part of a description of him but he is an AMAZING young man. He is bright, caring, committed, a true friend to all who know him and the list continues on. Those are the things that define him and if you met him I would defy you to say otherwise. I love you P!!!!!

This story makes me so sad.
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. you sound like a wonderful teacher...
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dr_bob Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
65. What the hell kind of asshole shuns a puppy?
I don't think I'd like this guy very much. Just sayin'.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. If that is what you got out of that post
all I can say is you really missed the point.
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bilerico Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
67. Thanks for posting my article
It sounds strange, but I think this is the most popular piece I've written. I've seen it pop up in a variety of places and each time there is one common denominator: The readers and commenters all leave their own heartbreaking stories of anti-gay language and violence.

To those who've shared their own pain, I honor and salute you.

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. It is we who should honor you
I won't say school was a picnic for me but it can't hold a candle to what you went through. Your survival is testament to how tough humans can be.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #67
73. Welcome to the DU, bilerico.
dsc, is a non-stop advocate for GLBT rights here at the DU and I'm grateful he posted your piece here and that he's apparently got you to visit our community. :hi:
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. I had posted this earlier in the LGBT Forum. dsc apparently cross posted it here.
I am glad that so many were given the opportunity to read this excellent piece.
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bilerico Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-01-10 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #75
90. Then thanks to you too, of course! n/t
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southernyankeebelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
71. I can relate in other ways. I have been fat all my life and picked on because of it. I know
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 03:51 PM by southernyankeebelle
black kids who have been teased all their life because of their skin. We all have some nightmare we carry. But I finally realized that people who tease others are insecure people. I had to learn to love me for me. I have always been excepting of all kinds of people. I have never judged everyone because I know how it felt to be judged. I try to pass that down to my grandchildren. It is up to us to teach our children to love themself first. Kids are mean and they do harm without realizing it. I never liked school because of it.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
72. K&R.
Thanks, dsc, for posting this here.
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
76. It never ceases to amaze me how full of hate some people are.
That some endure comments like this (sometimes from the cradle to the grave) is utterly horrifying to me. I only hope that the enlightened among us stamp out such hatred whenever and wherever we encounter it. And please people, only vote for those who are on the side of equality and acceptance for ALL CITIZENS.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
77. K&R
- Words are not adequate.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
81. Hey.... didn't Ann Coulter call John Edwards a faggot?
God...Coulter couldn't get anything right if she even tried. I'll bet she can't boil water.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
83. Like I frequently say words like "faggot, queer, homo" etc.
Aren't directed just at gay people. When I was in school, I was called every one of those names with vitriol, not because I was gay, but because I was different.

That is what homophobia legitimizes, the mistreatment of people who are different, after all it's not like the thugs wait for triplicate forms proving your sexual orientation to abuse you, they just follow their hunches and abuse whomever they feel like.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
84. Kick & Rec. n/t.
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blueredneck Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
86. Brave soul...
A testament to your strength. Thank you for sharing your heart-wrenching story. I don't know why the cruelty of some people always shocks me. I know it happens--cruel, cold, calculating things. Everytime, I'm left utterly sickened and asking myself why... Again, thanks for being brave enough to still stand and courageous enough to to provoke others to ask why.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. thank bilerico not me
as it is his story.
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Ildem09 Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
87. I agree i live in an ultra conservative area of the 'blue' illinois
For serious Clark County Voted for Alan Keyes. and people are so fucking backwards and unenlightened. I felt so awkward growing up a Gay kid in a conservative town. I thought i was alone in the world. Then In like 7th grade my class went to Wrigleyville and Boystown on the North Side of the city it was an eyeopener for several of these country bumpkins and I saw my first gay community :) I realized I wasn't alone. It turned out to be a hard life for me as a teenager in the town but thankfully my family is a very progressive lot. Now I don't associate with my old town or high school really and am desperately trying to get a job in civilization
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