Google's "Don't Be Evil" Mantra is Bullshit,; Adobe Is Lazy: Jobs

[steve2470]

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/01/googles-dont-be-evil-mantra-is-bullshit-adobe-is-lazy-apples-steve-jobs/

<snip>

Jobs, characteristically, did not mince words as he spoke to the assembled, according to a person who was there who could not be named because this person is not authorized by Apple to speak with the press.

On Google: We did not enter the search business, Jobs said. They entered the phone business. Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone. We won’t let them, he says. Someone else asks something on a different topic, but there’s no getting Jobs off this rant. I want to go back to that other question first and say one more thing, he says. This don’t be evil mantra: “It’s bullshit.” Audience roars.

About Adobe: They are lazy, Jobs says. They have all this potential to do interesting things but they just refuse to do it. They don’t do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon. Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy, he says. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it’s because of Flash. No one will be using Flash, he says. The world is moving to HTML5.

The world, of course, includes Google, which last week in a somewhat more modest development bypassed Apple’s iPhone app blockade by unveiling an html5 version of Google Voice, which takes full advantage of mobile Safari on the iPhone. Wired.com found it to be an impressive variation of the app Apple has neither approved nor officially rejected.

more at link above

[DavidDvorkin]

1. There's that Apple Attitude that I for one despise.

[Teaser]

2. everybody is wrong but Steve Jobs.

.

[Kablooie]

56. More often than not, that's been true.

[sendero]

3. "Want to kill the iphone"?

No douchebag, they want market share.

Jobs is really a fucking tool.

[alfredo]

33. How do you know Google's intent?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

35. how does Jobs? kill the iphone?

megalomaniacs see someone out to get them in every corner...

sP

[alfredo]

38. He has more access than we do.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

39. no...not necessarily...

look out for the boogey-man, steve...they're all out to get YOU.

sP

[alfredo]

43. Jobs knows that sooner or later fashion changes, and the iPhone will be

replaced just as the blackberry has peaked and being replaced. It's not paranoia, it is stating the obvious.

There's been a lot of iPod, iMac, iPhone killers, how many succeeded?

[MyNameGoesHere]

59. iBlackberry iHas iPeaked?

i iSee iNo iNdication iOf iThat iPeriod. iRecord iSales iLast iYear iAnd iThe 1st iQuarter iThis iYear iWill iProbably iSell iMore iThen iThe iphoney


Sorry about the i's i was just being innovative by putting a i in front of everything and making it seem like something new and exciting.

[alfredo]

60. Let's see...

Note the trend lines starting at Jan 08.

From investor place


From The Register in the UK

[snooper2]

61. Oh damn you bringing out numbers and facts and stuff

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[MyNameGoesHere]

63. Actually no

but you do not even get half a cigar sorry.

[alfredo]

65. And someday a new device will over take both Apple and Blackberry, such is life.

[MyNameGoesHere]

67. Nokia already sells more than both these punters. n/t

[alfredo]

71. That's cool. I was just showing that product sales go through cycles, and

as the market changes and new innovations are presented, older products fade. Look at bars. they might be hot for a year or two, but then a new night spot takes its place as the home of the in crowd. It's neither good or bad, it's just the way it is.

Kangol newsboy caps were big for a few years then faded.

[MyNameGoesHere]

62. I see you left out the

most important quarter where RIM passed iPhoney. You only get half a cigar. And if we are throwing out bias web sites here's mine.

http://m.industry.bnet.com/technology/10004453/rim-still-blows-past-apple-in-smartphone-unit-sales/

This line is pretty good

That’s a lot of phones and, interesting, a good deal more than Apple sold in the quarter ending September 26, 2009. In its 2009 Q4, Apple sent 7.4 million iPhones out the door. Now think about that. Yes, the iPhone has enjoyed enormous growth, but various versions of the BlackBerry outsold it by about 36.5 percent.


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/02/rim_shares_surge_as_blackberry_sales_hit_record_7_8_million.html

From apple insider? well that's got to hurt.

http://www.thestandard.com/news/2009/02/19/iphone-sales-slump-q4-blackberry-surges

See i can slant it too.

[alfredo]

64. You don't see where the BB sales have been flat with a trend down for the

past two years? That's why I am saying it has peaked. Apple has not pass BB, but looking at the trend lines shows that BB is not gaining, but it losing market share to Apple.

the Apple Insider article shows that both BB and Apple sales surged during that period. It was good news for both platforms.

The Standard put some qualifications to the BB surge including the introduction of new models, and the "Obama effect."

You are talking snapshots, I'm talking trends.

[MyNameGoesHere]

66. Trends ok

if you start from 0 phones and start selling phones you look pretty good. Truth be told is that BOTH these companies are punters compared to Nokia. And if you like trends here's one.


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/11/03/canalys_q3_2009_iphone_rim_taking_over_smartphone_market.html

Look the register is a biased piece of shit when it come to the Blackberry. Period. There is no downward trend in sales and market share. If you ask me it is Apple who has peaked. I am guessing they will stay this way for some time as the Android is not the BB or iphoney killer everyone thought.

[Hannah Bell]

42. we can discern it through their actions. 1) attempting to steal authors' copyrights by fiat.

2) colluding with chinese totalitarianism.

they're evil every day.

most corps are -- so why the disingenuous motto?

they're a for-profit megacorp. they're evil.

[alfredo]

45. do no evil is the fair and balanced of the computer world. Still Google makes

good products. I like Google Chrome a lot. Google's minimalist home page was a welcomed change from Yahoo's toxic waste dump.

[Hannah Bell]

46. mussolini made the trains run on time. big deal, google v. yahoo == more efficient of two evils.

[alfredo]

48. The good companies keep the assholes well hidden.

[Hannah Bell]

49. the "good" companies?

[alfredo]

52. I should have put good inside quotes. It's like the "good" restaurants wait

ten minutes before putting your order in the microwave.

[Lucky Luciano]

54. oh stop being such a hater! Google is certainly less evil than the vast majority

of companies in the SPX.

[Hannah Bell]

55. they tried to steal everyone's copyrights in one big swoop. they're damn evil.

[anigbrowl]

77. That's not true.

And I am party to the Google Book settlement. In no way do I feel they tried to 'steal my copyright' by making the content of my book searchable. If they had proposed selling that content without paying me anything, then your statement would be true...but they didn't.

[The Gunslinger]

53. Hopefully his run will start to slow with this stupid IPad thing.

A giant Ipod touch with 16 gigs for $500. I can by a good laptop for that price that is way more usefull, and will support flash.

[JCMach1]

57. If it kills proprietary software and OS's, bring it on!

[sakabatou]

4. Hey Jobs...

Have you ever looked at the site Newgrounds? Interesting FLASH stuff they do there.

[alfredo]

5. So you support a proprietary standard, flash, over open standards like HTML5?

On mobile devices HTML5 uses less CPU than Flash. That translates into more battery life.

Flash is 32bit, OSX is 64bit. Adobe has shown little interest in going 64bit.

[sakabatou]

6. I didn't know that...

[alfredo]

7. Adobe has not been the most responsive company to deal with.

[sakabatou]

10. I'll still use Adobe products on my laptop.

[alfredo]

13. I was a long time Photoshop user until an upgrade killed it. Now I can't

afford it and have taken up GIMP and find it suitable. Apple's implementation of PDF is much less hassle than Acrobat Reader. Any document I want can be converted to PDF in OSX (Print- Save As PDF)

Flash probably doesn't affect battery life on a laptop like it does on small devices like the iPhone.

[sakabatou]

15. My photoshop (CS4) is still tunning

and going strong.

[alfredo]

17. My version is older and I became disabled, and on SSI so I couldn't afford the

upgrade.

[sakabatou]

36. Ah.

[Salviati]

14. No, what I want is for Apple to stop making choices for me...

I'll be glad when people more away from flash video, but in the meantime I don't appreciate apple deciding for me which sites will and won't work.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. indeed...

this is one of the main complaints that my acquaintances have with Apple. They are constantly deciding what "we" are going to use...and even DO with their systems. And that is the problem. Jobs and the whole Apple world consider these boxes THEIR machines and we only get to use them...and we will use them in the manner Apple sees fit.

sP

[alfredo]

21. If you put tens of millions of dollars into developing a computer, don't you

think they have some say in what is to be included?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

23. some say : yes...such restriction : no n/t

[alfredo]

32. I'm not a purist to the point that I can't accept any proprietary

hardware or software. If I didn't want to accept the Mac for what it is, I would have bought something else.

Apple has the right to insist on certain rules, just as the owners of patents and copyrights have the right and obligation to protect their intellectual property and set limits on how that property is used.

Not everything in Macs or on OSX is owned by Apple, some is licensed and they have to abide by the license agreement. Do you think there would be DRM on music and movies if the owners of those works didn't insist on DRM?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

34. you think this is about intellectual property?

this is about making a box flexible. whether the folks over at apple like that or not it is a major concern/stopping point for some if not many. i think this is a sexy little thing. it has some possibly great uses, but limiting it in sooo many ways will be what continues to cause Mac to be unable to compete with the WinPC combo out there. And if they don't watch it, someone like Google might just come along and start cutting away at their niche markets.

i know people will buy it...you are a good example. however, MORE people would move to them were it not for the attitude that Apple continues to display regarding 'their' hardware and OS. Right now they are doing well...but they did well in the early to late 80's too and then nearly completely disappeared...

sP

[alfredo]

37. It is not designed to be a general purpose machine like a PC. It's primarily a

media tablet. Content creation and content delivery has been their focus since the late 90's.

from the 4th quarter report from last week:

Apple reports First Quarter results 2010
WRITTEN BY PHILIP ROY | 26 JANUARY 2010

Apple today announced financial results for its fiscal 2010 first quarter ended December 26, 2009. The Company posted revenue of $15.68 billion and a net quarterly profit of $3.38 billion, or $3.67 per diluted share. These results compare to revenue of $11.88 billion and net quarterly profit of $2.26 billion, or $2.50 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter. Gross margin was 40.9 percent, up from 37.9 percent in the year-ago quarter. International sales accounted for 58 percent of the quarter's revenue.

Apple sold 3.36 million Macintosh computers during the quarter, representing a 33 percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter. The Company sold 8.7 million iPhones in the quarter, representing 100 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter. Apple sold 21 million iPods during the quarter, representing an eight percent unit decline from the year-ago quarter.

During the quarter Apple elected retrospective adoption of the Financial Accounting Standards Board's amended accounting standards* related to certain revenue recognition. Adoption of the new accounting standards significantly changes how the Company accounts for certain items, particularly sales of iPhone and Apple TV.

"If you annualize our quarterly revenue, it's surprising that Apple is now a $50+ billion company," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "The new products we are planning to release this year are very strong, starting this week with a major new product that we're really excited about."


Not bad for a niche market.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

40. but when looking at over all PC sales

the Mac is totally a niche market. and the iPhone and iPod and now the iPad are niche products as well...the iPod should now be obsolete as the iPhone rolls up it's functionality. The problem with the iPad is that is just a really big multimedia player with some other limited functionality that already exists on the iPhone. It is like they are trying to exemplify the word 'niche' with this thing. It kind of sort of incompletely straddles three worlds.

Let's make it kick ass. Give it the full functionality that the iPad deserves and REPLACE the laptop instead of augment it. THAT would be revolutionary and magical (Apple's words). Gimme two products...an iPhone (which is already where is needs to be) and an iPad (with better capabilities) and I will be STOKED to go out and get that combo. Then...a simple docking station at home (or work) that houses a second (larger) screen and keyboard and mouse (if you want them). I think there are many more people that would sign on to that program.

sP

[alfredo]

41. If you remember, the iPhone didn't have all the bells and whistles at first, same

goes for the iPod. In the next few months you will probably see multitasking and a built in camera for video conferencing. Multi touch will probably become a big selling point as the technology matures on the iPad. Let's see what the rev 1, 2, and 3 brings to this platform.

As I pointed out, Apple does just fine in what ever niche they play in. Jobs is not concerned with being the biggest, he wants to be the rule maker, the one that pushes the technology. He's been successful at that too. They don't need to be everything for everybody.


Your concerns about it being closed will mean little once HTML5 kicks in. Google used HTML5 to get around the App Store. I'm sure others are working on browser based apps.

Remember, Apple thinks long term. The strategy they laid out in the 90's is being realized now. They did an end run around MS, they didn't want to compete in their market, they wanted to open and dominate specific "niche" markets. Watch gaming. Watch the big magazine publishers. Will they be selling subsidized iPads for long therm contracts? Look for universities offering courses on the iPad. Textbook companies seem to be interested.

Reading, listening, and watching is what the iPad is for.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

44. i can't wait to see where it goes

and i hope it really does come along. i would love to be able to put it all together in just a couple of devices. i might not wait in line for it...but i would definitely like to pick that sort of system up!

sP

[alfredo]

47. I like their products, but I find them to be a very interesting company to watch.

They play hard and play well.

Their design team is the dream of the tech world. Ives has earned every design award he's been presented. He's the one that Makes Steve's hallucinations/visions real. I really believe much of what Apple is today is from the artistry of Ives. Who else would have even thought about making the inside of a computer lovely? Beauty for beauty's sake is not what they are doing.

[Occulus]

70. NO.

Not just no, but HELL no.

Look, when you buy hardware- any form of consumer computer hardware- it becomes yours. This is exactly the issue I have with the concept of the EULA in general, and we absolutely must refrain from allowing any manufacturer to extend that legal fallacy into the realm of actual physical hardware.

I really, really don't think it would go over so well if, say, Nvidia or ATI decided that there was a maximum allowable number of faces displayed per model regardless of hardware capability, or if they decided that nobody really needs more than 60fps, or if they decided that OpenGL wasn't really needed by anyone anymore. This is the sort of thing Apple does, and it's why if I do get an iPad it'll be jailbroken the day I get it.

I was beyond disgusted when I learned that I couldn't replace Apple's boring desktop icons (bland little rounded-cornered squares? That's the best you can do, Apple?) with my own theme. I was also shocked to learn that I couldn't install software myself, from sources other than the App Store.

So I gave Steve the finger and jailbroke the little fucker. This is what Steve doesn't like people doing to the iPhone and iPod Touch:



Doesn't that look a hell of a lot nicer than the stock iDevice desktop? You can tell whoever did this (for FREE, by the way) put a whole, whole lot more time into it than Apple ever considered doing. PLUS, there are a whole host of useful things I can do with my jailbroken iPod that stock users who don't jailbreak will ever be able to. I can SSH into my iPod and transfer, move, delete, and rename files via WinSCP on my PC, I can play Genesis, MAME, and even Sony Playstation (!!) games (none of which are available on the App Store) using emulators I got via Cydia and/or Rock (the OTHER App Stores Apple doesn't want you to know about), I can open a terminal and issue Unix commands to a shell (next project: install and configure apt), and I can change themes on my iPod (some themes come with a set of common icons; some cover hundreds of popular apps, and some, as shown above, radically alter the whole look and feel of the iDevice).

I can now background any application, not just the ones Apple lets you background by default, I have a better battery app that reports the battery life remaining as detected by the hardware (and not merely guesstimated based on time used, like the stock Apple battery app does), and I can play downloaded flash videos. That last bit is important as hell, because Apple claims it can't be done, but the vlc player for the iPod and iPhone (yup, I have that too) handles flash internally, just as it does on the PC. BOOM, oooh, ya-ta-ta-taa.

No, we really, really shouldn't allow ourselves to get into the mindset that when you purchase hardware you're under the same constraints as you are when you buy software (and I hotly dispute the validity of the EULA in those cases as well). When you buy a car, it's yours. When you buy a TV, it's yours. When you buy anything but an Apple computer, it's yours.

No, neither Apple nor any other computer hardware manufacturer has any right to control once I have paid the retail price. The physical hardware is mine, and I will do with it as I please. I do not accept and will never accept the idea that any manufacturer of any physical product has any control over MY purchase after I pay for it, period, end of story.

The best analogy I can come up with is cars. How would you like it if cars were sold with the hood welded shut? I used to apply that to Micro$oft and their closed OS, but as it turns out, Apple is actually worse than Micro$oft in this respect. I would never buy a car whose spark plugs I couldn't change without taking it to that manufacturer's dealer, and I seriously doubt anyone else would, either.

[alfredo]

20. I heard the same complaints when Apple did away with the Floppy Disc.

[onehandle]

22. I can't believe that I cannot use my cassette tapes from my Apple II.

Perfectly good data tapes that won't work with OS X.

Steve Jobs owes me 79 cents a tape.

[alfredo]

27. Jewelbox and TetrisMax won't work either.

[Occulus]

73. You're not trying hard enough

I had "The 7th Guest" running on my iPod. Yeah, that "7th Guest". The old DOS logic puzzle game. I also got Monkey Island working, but got bored.

Final Fantasy 6 runs on my iPod, though. Yes, I was duly shocked.

[onehandle]

28. I love your signature line.

Is that yours or did you find it elsewhere?

It's perfect.

[anigbrowl]

78. ahem...

On mobile devices HTML5 uses less CPU than Flash. That translates into more battery life.

That depends what you're doing really. I like HTML but Flash has its technical benefits - and remember, it depends very much on the codec that's being used. flash is generally decoding h.264, there is no fully-established HTML video codec yet. Bear in mind too that this doesn't indicate any especial commitment to open source on Apple's part; you try going Quicktime-free on an Apple system and see how far you get.

Flash is 32bit, OSX is 64bit. Adobe has shown little interest in going 64bit.

All of CS5 (due for release in April) is going to be x64, so you're simply incorrect about this.

I don't work for or own stock in Adobe, I just use some of their software and have found them a fairly good company to work with over the years in terms of being responsive to their customers and so forth.

[TheWebHead]

8. as someone running win7 64bit

he's right about flash crashing everything. it's kinda funny though that Jobs would advocate anything that's open source

[alfredo]

30. OSX is built upon BSD, and Safari came from Konqueror. WebKit is open too.

http://webkit.org/ BTW, Google Chrome is WebKit.

Apple also provides Ruby, Python, Perl, AppleScript, Awk, Bash, Xcode, and other tools as part of, or options for the OSX install.

edited to separate Python and Perl. You know how they argue about which is best.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[galileoreloaded]

11. Intellectual masturbation about products that help fatten our children,

so technocrats and yuppies have something to talk about and fill their empty and soulless existence.

Go grow a garden.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

19. how about integrating technology into your life

in a way that frees you to grow a garden rather than be pinned to a desk...

grow a brain...

sP

[Codeine]

26. Food fattens your children.

Computers connect them to the entire planet and all the information within it.

[LeftyMom]

31. She said, on the internet,

while presumably not doing anything especially meaningful or useful.

[galileoreloaded]

58. THREE technocrats approve of this message!!! Good Job, Space Rangers! n/t

[ProdigalJunkMail]

68. nah, we just disapprove of your message

and laugh that you are lamenting technology...on the internet...probably from your iPhone...

sP

[snooper2]

76. This message brought to you via Verizon Wireless...

:rofl:

[LanternWaste]

80. Or post on a message board...?

"Go grow a garden..."

Or post a banal message on a board about the banality of technology...?

[onehandle]

12. Flash is outdated web technology that bogs down surfing and consumes portable's energy.

KILL FLASH!

[Dappleganger]

16. Agreed, Jobs is right about Adobe and flash.

Just last night the oldest son and I had a conversation about this, too. Just look at the direction YouTube is going and you'll see that's the future.

[anonymous171]

24. Must...Obey...Jobs

[Initech]

25. I hate Flash, especially full-screen flash ads.

[anigbrowl]

79. You'll hate the HTML implementation just as much, then

That's like saying you hate your TV because it can tune in Fox News. Platform =/= content.

[Dogmudgeon]

29. HTML5 is also a big problem

It uses encumbered (non-free) standards like h.264 instead of Ogg Theora/Vorbis formats -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_Ogg_formats_in_HTML5">because of Apple's insistence (and note, this Wikipedia article is almost wholly favorable to Apple).

Once again, Steve Jobs is a robber baron posing in radicals' clothing.

--d!

[ShamelessHussy]

69. Not HTML 5 but the video and audio spec and that's why it was dropped

HTML 5 is a flash killer though =)

[WallStreetNobody]

50. I like Apple products, but Google reigns supreme both intellectually and morally IMO

....the stance Google has taken on China has really firmed up for me that this is the type of company all companies should model themselves after. Not only do they make great products, they make them widely available, and are ready to take a stance against civil liberty violations even when it means less money. Pretty amazing, and unheard of.

I love my iPhone, but I am very close to switching to the Nexus One....

[Occulus]

72. Learn how to jailbreak and unlock your iPhone and free thyself from the Order of Jobs.

Be very careful. You can screw up your baseband and become unable to downgrade should you do it wrong. But see my post above. There's a whole lot more you can do with the iDevice once it's jailbroken. Just be sure to read very, very carefully, because with the iPhone (but not the iPod) you can really screw it up.

[WallStreetNobody]

51. I like Apple products, but Google reigns supreme both intellectually and morally IMO

....the stance Google has taken on China has really firmed up for me that this is the type of company all companies should model themselves after. Not only do they make great products, they make them widely available, and are ready to take a stance against civil liberty violations even when it means less money. Pretty amazing, and unheard of.

I love my iPhone, but I am very close to switching to the Nexus One....

[DireStrike]

75. They only took that stance because somebody in china hacked their stuff.

How many years had they cooperated with China's repressive internet policies?

[DireStrike]

74. Yeah, it is bullshit. But so are you, Jobs.