DU is at its best when there is strong debate on an issue

[Quixote1818]

Often when there is disagreement and an issue keeps being debated we get a number of people acting disgusted that an issue keeps being debated. We hear that it's trolls trying to divide us and we need to stick together and stick up for our candidate. I disagree that it's trolls, and would suspect that 98% of any disagreement is from good Democrats who are regulars at DU and have strong feelings about issues.

I actually think this is when DU and democracy is at it's best! It's amazing to see how many topics branch off of a hot issue and how many of us on DU will start out defending one side, then slowly move in to the other camp because someone brought up something we hadn't thought of. This has happened to me many times! This is what debate and democracy are all about! It's a beautiful thing!

Some people are more comfortable when DU is quiet and peaceful and we are all just ripping on the other side. Those times can be nice but are we really growing much as Democrats when we all agree on something?

It's early, and with over 100,000 members registered at DU, MANY with very, very strong feelings about the environment, helping the poor, fighting the powerful, etc. etc., you can bet that EVERY candidate will get his/her fair share of brutal attacks. You can count on that! Lets all be open to fair criticism about our candidate and hopefully learn from one another. DUers have many, many different ways we see each topic and the world.

Lets strive to respect one another's differences, debate topics by sticking to the issues, not get too personal and be willing to keep and open mind. In the end, I suspect who ever gets the nomination will be supported by 99% of DU. Argue as we may, we still share many more common values than differences and we are all on the same side!

I suspect many will have problems with what I just said and please feel free to set me straight!

Just remember to lay off Wes Clark or I will barf on you! :puke:

On Edit: Some fights in the past probably did hit under the belt as things really heated up. I felt we were unfair to Dean for example. Dean just got hammered here on DU. When it really heats up DUers can start getting nasty! When it reaches that point it's time for everyone to pull away from DU for a few days. I admit I have hit under the belt from time to time and have later apologized. I am not proud of those instances.


'Dissent Is the Highest Form of Patriotism' Thomas Jefferson

[Redstone]

1. But it's "its best," not "it's best." How's that for strong debate?

Redstone

[MadMaddie]

3. Oh Redstone you debate king you...

:pals:

[Redstone]

8. Not trying to give the OP a hard time.

Just mentioning it, because we have to have a level of discourse that's higher than the rightwingers...

Redstone

[MadMaddie]

26. This is true...

[Quixote1818]

4. I am dyslexic

Seriously, I failed 2nd grade because I couldn't read.

You won that round!


Have a donut and coffee: :donut:

[Redstone]

7. Not looking to give you a hard time. You know, when I was in fourth grade

in that tiny school in Vermont, there were seven kids in my class, and FIVE of them were dyslectic?

So it's not only NOT something to be ashamed of; it might actually put you in the majority of the US population?

Redstone

[uppityperson]

9. Should've just changed all the text around in the books.

Must've been quite a class, lots to work with.

[Redstone]

11. Oh, yea, 5/7th of the kids reading "saw" whenever the word "was" appeared

in a book? I don't know how Mr Morton was able to stand it.

Especially given that he had 4th and 5th grades in one room. (It was a four-room school with eight grades, though first grade had its own room.)

Redstone

[uppityperson]

14. drah oot si sdrawkcab gnitirw

writing backwards is too hard. Must've either be very patient or very something.

[Quixote1818]

15. Oh I know. It didn't bother me

:thumbsup:

[Redstone]

18. Return of offered handshake, right here.

Redstone

[LoZoccolo]

2. Is Edwards' house one of those issues? n/t

[msongs]

5. the only house I care about is the WHITE HOUSE in DC :-) nt

[Quixote1818]

13. Sure, that is one example

I started out on Edwards side then moved to the other side (based on environmental impacts), after several people posted very thoughtful, well thought out positions. I still like Edwards and would support him but I thought he deserved some criticism for building that house. I also think my two favorite candidates deserve some criticism, and I even posted that criticism yesterday.

Here are some other examples:

Terri Schiavo
Wes Clark and Bosnia (was he a war criminal)
Many, many attacks on Dean
Was Wes Clark a Democrat

Those were all heavily debated on DU

[TahitiNut]

16. Thorstein Veblen thought it was important enough to coin the term "conspicuous consumption"

... in his book "The Theory of the Leisure Class." :shrug:

Just because some brain-dead DUers (on both 'sides') want to try and cast it into some "Canonization? Pros and Cons!" trial of Edwards instead of discussing it in the far more relevant and significant context of an American "culture" gone mad doesn't make the topic unworthy of discussion.

Some people just can't discuss anything without making it some saint-or-demon argument about some personality/celebrity. "People" Magazine seems to be the limit of thinking for many.

[LoZoccolo]

24. Thorstein Veblen is only one guy, though.

I make up words all the time.

[Rude Horner]

6. Yup. I've said it before and I'll say it again...

this place would be pretty boring if everytime somebody started a topic, the rest of us replied "fuck, yeah!".

Nope. Give me good healthy, fun debate any time. :)

[Redstone]

10. A good fight is some fun, eh?

(You would have to be as old as I am and have lived in Philadelphia in the 1970s to understand the "some fun, eh?" reference.)

But yes, a spirited debate is much more interesting than universal agreement.

Redstone

[Greyhound]

12. The debate is great and the primary reason for DU to exist,

it's the issues part that is sadly lacking.

[cynatnite]

17. Debate is great, but I love DU for other reasons...

Educating and getting a person to stop and think is what I see as a great virtue of DU. I learned more about the constitution here in the first year than I ever did in high school or college, but I didn't care as much then as I do now.

I do miss people like OldLeftyLawyer because their insight was just fabulous. I was pointed in the right direction and given much to think about by some wonderful DUer's...many of whom have moved on for various reasons.

The educating, reflecting and thinking is why I continue to stay even when I get rather frustrated at DU. My learning never stops and that's why I stay at DU.

[gratefultobelib]

20. I read through so many threads thinking I will come back and respond, and

then poof! I never get to them again! So--taking the time out to say Amen! to your post. I've only been a participating member for a month, and I find myself spending literally hours here reading, following links, watching Democracy Now! like I did last night. Yes, the education and learning I've had for the last few weeks are already immeasurable and I look forward to much more!:thumbsup:

[RiverStone]

19. Well said!

I've only been a DUer for 6 months, though I share both your optimism and perspective on 08. We have so many DEM cooks in the Presidential kitchen right now - its easy to feel divided. I too believe just like last November, we will come together in a wonderful way by summer of 08. The political battle lines will be clearly drawn and we we rally together against any rethug that wants to continue the policies of Shrub's failed regime.

My favorite ticket does include Wes Clark, but as a V.P. to Al Gore! That's nothing to barf at eh Quixote1818? :)



peace~

[Quixote1818]

21. Thanks. You have had a number of very thoughtful posts

I have noticed.

I like Al Gore as well. I like him and Wes Clark about the same. I guess I feel Wes Clark would have a little easier chance at getting elected. I love Al Gore thought! He is absolutely brilliant!

I really like Edwards too, and think he has a solid shot at the nomination because he is leading in Iowa. I think he is one of the more electable candidates we have. I am kind of mad at him because I think that house kind of undercut his message and it might be harder for him to be elected now. I think I am more mad at him for hurting himself than for the house. As someone on DU said: "Edwards is Irony disabled". The irony of building that house and his message of "two Americas" is just ripe picking for the Republicans. Hopefully not enough that it would effect him in the General Election.

Take Care

[lostnotforgotten]

22. I Agree That Edwards Is An Attractive Candidate But He Really Shot Himself

In the foot with that house.

What was he thinking?

[RiverStone]

25. Wes or Al - - its would ALL be good.

Agree - JE's BIG house move was a little baffling. And whereas many folks felt a need to defend him, I simply pointed out in general that any house - anyplace - by anybody (politician or not) - would do good to follow Al Gore's simple tenants of shrinking one's eco-footprint. Things are mellowing, but WHEW - folks got rather excited on those threads!

If Al or Wes don't jump in, I think it will come down to Edwards vs Hillary...with maybe Obama tapped as the v.p. for either.

Though I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally hope either Al or Wes add to the mix soon. I think Wes is likely...Al...maybe 25% chance of jumping in (just guessing).

Thanks for the kind words Quixote1818 - look forward to more spirited conversation.

[motocicleta]

23. Absolutely

If I hear one more goddamn reference to the trolls I'm gonna freak right out. Note to people who write or want to write that: we are arguing because it is an important political point. It may have nothing to do with policy, but politics is a little more nuanced than just policy. We are arguing about houses and DLC and IWR and whatnot because they are all part of the image that politicians have, said image being largely responsible for their election or lack thereof. We're arguing because it matters. Welcome to the internets. Next stepford moderator who wants to claim some large group of DUers are trolls for complaining about alleged 30,000 sq ft houses needs to shut the hell up and ignore the thread. That's what gawd gave us the ignore button for, ninnies!

[porphyrian]

27. I'll kick that. - n/t