What Will It Take for the Democrats to Begin Impeachment Hearings About GW Bush?

[David Zephyr]

What possible "high crime and misdemeanor" will rise to a standard that will merit the House of Representatives to launch impeachment hearings against the criminal who resides in the White House?

It is obvious that none of the following reasons apply for "rationale" for impeachment:

1.) Violating the FISA laws and spying on American citizens illegally.
2.) Violating the Hatch Act.
3.) Obstruction of Justice in violation of the Hatch Act.
4.) Intentionally misleading Congress.
5.) Politicizing the Justice Department.
6.) Lying to the American people in order to build a false case for a catastrophic war.
7.) Wasting the lives of over 3,000 soldiers and Marines.
8.) Weakening the Armed Forces through mismanagement and over stretching their capacities.
9.) Criminal neglect of the citizens in New Orleans before, during and after Hurricane Katrina.
10.) "Losing" billions of dollars now unaccountable by the Pentagon from first weeks in Iraqi War.
11.) Open suspension of Habeas Corpus Rights of American Citizens.

Since a president can be "impeached" by the House (completely different from a trial in the Senate and removal from office by the Senate) for simply the color of his/her hair...

Since none of the eleven "high crimes and misdemeanors" listed rise to the level of beginning impeachment "hearings" regarding the criminal in the White House...

One can only conclude that ONLY the passive reception of oral sex within the Oval Office merits impeachment hearings.

Or is there still another reason that the Democratic Leadership in the House has for refusing to bring to account the man who swore to protect and defend the Constitution of United States of American and, who instead, abused his office and the public trust?

If so, what is that reason?

[MonkeyFunk]

1. the reason

is they can count to 67.

[EFerrari]

3. And we call that counting your chickens before they're hatched.

The Thuggery is RACING away from Junior.

Remember, Democrats didn't bring Nixon down. Republicans with a brain did.

[lonestarnot]

13. I never fucking thought I would ever say this, but here goes, and I'm

swallowing awfully damn hard, I AM COUNTING ON THEM!

[EFerrari]

30. They are ready. They've seen Junior kill their party for six years.

:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

32. I haven't heard any movement in that direction and I'm so tired of waiting and watching.

[EFerrari]

35. I can barely watch Washington Journal but the Republican callers

are not happy campers. I mean, if they had to resurrect NEWT, you know they're in trouble.

We're all tired but, imho, hang tight. It's happening. Everybody is sick and tired of this miserable FAILURE.

[lonestarnot]

47. I'm hanging sfp, hanging till the last dog.

[David Zephyr]

37. That's the truth. GWB has destroyed the GOP. And Tom Delay...

will soon be singing like a canary to save his own butt. Delay will also destroy the GOP.

[David Zephyr]

4. Again, that's confusing the Senate with the House.

Impeachment is a responsibility of the House.

[MonkeyFunk]

5. Yes of course

but they're smart enough to count votes on the other side of the building.

[David Zephyr]

6. Impeaching is a completely separate activity.

It makes no difference whether or not there is even a trial in the Senate or not. Of course, he won't be removed...but the House should impeach him. It's their job.

[MonkeyFunk]

well

we disagree.

Meaningless gestures are fun the base to enjoy, but ultimately a waste of time. A failed impeachment process is worse than no impeachment at all.

[David Zephyr]

8. Meaningless? Subpoenas. Hearings? Meaningless.

I like how you stretch to condescend when you confuse the responsibilities of the House of Representative with those of the Senate.

Impeachment is not removing or a trial. It is the responsibility of the House.

"High crimes and misdemeanors".

The members of the House take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. Are they living up to that or are they looking to 2008? It's one or the other.

[MonkeyFunk]

11. don't

lecture me on the House vs. the Senate.

I NEVER implied the Senate is responsible for impeachment. You know full well what I meant. Talk about condescending....


I believe a failed impeachment process is worse than no impeachment at all.

[EFerrari]

16. There is no such thing as a failed impeachment process.

The press alone will cost the Thuggery seats in the House.

Not to mention, it's the right thing to do.

[David Zephyr]

23. Thank you. Impeachment can not "fail". It's a process.

Man, this is the third time I've tried to get a thread here about impeachment and most, sadly, confuse it with removing the president.

Thanks for pointing out that "there is no such thing as a failed impeachment process."

And, you are clearly right, "it's the right thing to do" It's their moral responsibility.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

26. If we continue to apply this pressure, we cannot lose.

:hi:

[Individualist]

38. The fact that the House impeaches

and the Senate convicts has been pointed out numerous times. Yet every time an impeachment thread is started, one or more people attempt to confuse the issue by saying "we don't have enough votes".

[Jim Sagle]

18. Don't YOU lecture anyone on what's meaningless and what isn't.

You obviously haven't a glimmer of a clue.

[MonkeyFunk]

22. I'm expressing an opinion

on a public discussion board. cope.

[Jim Sagle]

29. No sweat.

:boring:

[David Zephyr]

20. Then you support politicians instead of statesmen.

And hey, that's your right.

[Ghost in the Machine]

55. I believe a failed impeachment process is worse than no impeachment at all.

Do you also feel it's pointless to call the law if someone was trying to kill you? I mean, after all, you'd probably be dead by the time the cops got there, so what's the use? Right?

What if you came home and found your house broken into? Wouldn't it be pointless to call the law since the robbers are already gone, and the chances of you getting your property back are next to zero? Just let the criminals keep on going without any attempt to stop them. That'll teach em!

Where do we draw the line? Do we just keep letting this war criminal get away with his crimes? Do we just keep looking the other way? There seems to be a growing crowd in the impeachment tent.

Even if the process never makes it out of the House, it hasn't failed as long as it gets out in the main stream and gets more people talking about it, good or bad. The more you expose the crimes of this junta, the more people will listen and pay attention. The more they pay attention, the more outraged they will become. I'm banking on this myself. I see people becoming aware almost every day and they aren't liking what they are seeing and hearing.

NOT doing anything is the WORST thing that we can do. We can't live with the fear of failure. We have to face this head on, as a UNIFIED voice, and do what we MUST DO to save our Country, and our lives as we know them.

We CANNOT wait any longer. With more and more scandals being revealed almost daily, this misadministration is being backed into a corner. Cornered animals are much more dangerous. Once their backs are to the wall, you can bet that Martial Law WILL be declared, they'll close off the media to anything except what they want us to hear, and we're going to be living in a nightmare.

I have teenagers... I want them to grow up in the same Country that I did, not a dictatorship. What about you?

[David Zephyr]

64. Again, impeachment is not removing the president.

It simply amazes me how people confuse the two.

The impeachment process in the House can not "fail".

And it is their duty to impeach because he violated the law.

[Ghost in the Machine]

67. Where did I say it was?

I said the process HAS to be started, even if it never makes it out of the HOUSE. At least it will get some media attention and more people can become aware of the crimes of this administration. The more they become aware, the bigger the pro impeachment crowd grows. The bigger the crowd grows, and the louder we speak, the more Congress is going to HAVE to listen.

If we can't depend on our elected officials to represent us in the way that we deserve, then we need to represent ourselves. Face it folks, there is no knight in shining armor riding in on a big white horse to save us from the fire breathing dragon. We have to fight the beast ourselves, without thoughts or fear of failure, or the beast wins.

Game Over...

[Ghost in the Machine]

73. I'm *STILL* waiting for an answer. WHERE did I say it was?

Did you even read my post, or just do a hit and run on the title?

It simply amazes me that people still do that. :eyes:

[David Zephyr]

81. My bad.

You did write: "Even if the process never makes it out of the House, it hasn't failed as long as it gets out in the main stream and gets more people talking about it, good or bad."

I didn't respond because I was out of town until this evening. I'm just getting back. In any event, you are right and I was wrong.

So we agree. :)

[KAZ]

12. I'm not getting it. What price did the Pukes pay for impeaching.

. a sitting Pres at 65% approval? Sometimes, the "here and now" is not all that matters. We've let a tyrant run roughshod over our constitution, our treasury, our country. What does he have to do, eat babies? Iraq, Plame, Gitmo. What the hell does it take?

[dsc]

24. losing an election (1998) that they should have won

We gained 6 House seats and a Senate seat in an election that pretty much everyone thought we would lose.

[KAZ]

31. Wasn't much of a price. What happened in '00, 02, '04?

What do you not understand about 32% approvals? The country wants him gone. The Dog at 65% was bound to pick up seats. How is this, in any way, not understandable?

[David Zephyr]

36. 28% according to Harris. That's impeachment territory.

Bush is so toxic that it's the Republicans that are running scared.

Impeachment hearings would force them to defend him or to criticize him.

Look at how the Gonzales hearings moved Republicans to denounce him, to step away from him.

[dsc]

41. No one thought we would win

We had some very weak Senators up for reelection and only lost 1 of those, we won two of theirs so we gained one. Clinton brought in some Senators most people felt would have huge difficulty winning (Murray, Feingold, Boxer to name three). We also upset D'Amato and Faircloth. As late as October we were predicted to lose a dozen house seats and a few Senate seats.

[David Zephyr]

46. I posted we would win 6 Senate seats. So don't include me in "nobody knew"

Check the archives. Six senate seats and a sweep of the house.

Even George Will predicted the Democrats would take the House.

[dsc]

50. Not in 1998 you didn't

at least not here.

[David Zephyr]

52. I was speaking of 2006. I posted the night before the 2002 midterms we would be massacred.

Check it out in the archives. I said we would take a bloodbath because we were not standing up to Bush.

You seem to always come down on taking it softly on Bush, dsc. I respect you, but I don't know where that sense of passivity comes from. You must learn to stand up to bullies in life.

[dsc]

56. I don't think we should Impeach because he won't be convicted

If he is Impeached without a conviction, then he won't ever get punished. Honestly I doubt Impeachment would help or hurt us politically except that time spent on Impeachment can't be spent on passing laws. Our new House members need accomplishments to run on in 2008. I honestly feel a purely partisan Impeachment won't stand the test of time. I might be wrong on that but I just don't see it.

[David Zephyr]

61. It doesn't matter what the Senate does, it's the sworn responsibility of the House.

FISA alone was breaking the law. Plain and simple.

Either laws are to be respected or not.

Congress must perform its duty.

You seem to focus on the "politics" and not the legal responsibility of their jobs.

[dsc]

63. If he is aquitted now

he can't be convicted later. I would rather see him convicted and punished.

[Ghost in the Machine]

60. Maybe the republicons had something to do with that. *THAT* was a waste

of time and money. The man lied about an extra marital affair, as (just about) any married man would do. Nobody died. We didn't turn into a rouge nation.

Even repubs cheat on their spouses, and they knew in their hearts if they got confronted with it, they'd lie like a sombitch and deny it at first, until there was irrefutable evidence proving otherwise.

Didn't Clinton have close to a 70% APPROVAL rating overall when the repubs filed articles of impeachment? ... how does that compare to the chimp's 28%?

These are REAL CRIMES being committed... in OUR name...

[whosinpower]

80. I just figured it out

They impeached Clinton because they could afford to....simply stated, impeaching a president for lying about a sexual encounter with another consenting adult--does not harm the foundation of America.....the real one, not the one you have been led to believe in.

But if you impeach George--for going to war under false pretenses (cause that is what it really boils down to) then that means, America, as a nation,a warloving, military hyper
power enslaved to the military industrial complex and a variety of corporate powers....will be trully crushed --broken from within.....

Without war/conflict....America is nothing....sorry to say it, but there it is. And until someone, or a group of someones can redefine America's role in the world, and redefine its own identity....George will never be impeached. It is far too costly. Clinto was easy peasy--and that is why they did it.

[David Zephyr]

27. Eat babies! Thank you, now I know what it will take. Someone gave me an answer!

Eating babies while having oral sex! That's what would merit impeachment.

[Cha]

59. THey don't pay ANYTHING

because they have the US CORPORATEMEDIAWHORES behind them 1100%.

Too bad the cmw have been so over worked hiding the fascists' scandals..cause they certainly haven't been overworked by INVESTIGATING republCON SCANDALS.

[DearAbby]

25. Actually using the constitution

would be meaningless? Would it not be rendering that document meaningless to just allow people to violate it at will, because we don't have the stomach or to faith, to stand up and do what is right?

I don't see this along party lines anymore...this is my country, that constitution is mine, (and yours) as an AMERICAN. We have to use it or lose it. Its not party anymore, future be damned, election in 08 be damned, there may not be one...if we continue. Its not party anymore folks, this is COUNTRY...now who are you?...DEMOCRAT OR AN AMERICAN?

:rant: I feel so strongly about this. We are AMERICANS ABOVE ANY AND ALL PARTIES.

[David Zephyr]

33. Exactly. If we toss kids in jail for life (3 strikes) for stealing a pizza...

and our highest lawmakers wink at felonies, then why should anyone obey any law at all.

A black man was sentenced to life in prison for stealing a pizza and the Supreme Court upheld that verdict because it was his third "strike".

Life in prison for a pizza, a joint, hotwiring a car, a hot check...

And this criminal gets a pass from the House of Representatives because they fear an election?

Are they politicians or statesmen?

[lonestarnot]

14. He should be goddamn removed! NOW! We have a fucking killer in our Whitehouse!

[Ghost in the Machine]

68. yeah... what *you* said....

:hi:

[Jackpine Radical]

72. Imeachment in the Houwse, yes, but

conviction in the Senate. It takes 67 to finally flush the toilet.

[EFerrari]

2. It will take us working our remotes off.

This bunch conspired to subvert two Federal elections. If for no other reason, let's MOVE.

[blues90]

7. They need a conscience and the will to take a risk in their careers

[David Zephyr]

17. Exactly! It's the duty of the House to impeach this man.

They take the oath to protect and defend the constitution. That's their job.

Worrying about 2008 is pathetic, especially since hearings will help the Democrats not hurt them.

This is the same mentality of weakness that Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt had as they caved to GW Bush over and over.

The saddest fact of all is that more right wing, reactionary and retrogressive laws were passed when Gephardt and Daschle were the leaders of our party within the Congress.

Guess who voted for the Patriot Act, the Iraqi War Resolution, "Partial Birth Abortion Ban", the Defense of Marriage Act? Dick Gephardt and Tom Daschle.

And they took the Democrats to even greater losses in the midterms of 2002.

Only when Howard Dean and Democrats became emboldened and began standing up to the criminal, did the public opinion turn.

Every poll shows that the American people are now with the Democrats. Why? Because they have showed a little spine.

You said it perfectly: "They need a conscience and the will to take a risk in their careers."

[man4allcats]

9. Maybe if they photograph him naked in the Lincoln bedroom

with a troop of Boy Scouts, doing unmentionable things with a crucifix and saying Hail Marys to and kneeling devoutly before a portrait of Adolph Hitler, perhaps then the Democratic Congress will have the balls to impeach, but I wouldn't look for it before that point. If it were up to Dennis Kucinich, a Democrat from the Democratic wing of the party as someone recently aptly referred to him, things would be different in a very beneficial way, but Dennis speaks too much truth to power to be popular with the cattle that make up most of the American electorate. Go, Dennis! Do and say what's right. If America damns itself, at least it won't be on you and those who listened to you. You're a good man. Thank you for all you do.

[David Zephyr]

39. Bravo for Dennis Kucinich and his pocket constitution!

There's someone who understands the responsibilities of the oath he took. DK!

[DearAbby]

10. I have been asking that question myself

Please define what would be consider a high crime,

if this war isn't,
and torture isn't,
outing a CIA agent isn't,
wiretappings Americans without due process isn't
TAKING AWAY DUE PROCESS with signing away habeas corpus isn't

just to name a few, what is that BIG HIGH CRIME that will prompt you to demand and to say enough, STOP! and impeach?

because then I know what to look for...exactly what is the HIGH CRIME that will move our people to preserve our constitution the only way it can be preserved...and that is the USE IT!!!

[lonestarnot]

15. Your post alone should be enough in a statement of charges!

[aquart]

19. Republicans. That's what it will take.

We aren't one party government. When they are ready to cut him loose, he's gone. Until then, we chip away and reveal each crime. Pin them to the Republicans with pictures and audio. Get ready to campaign on it.

If you ask, then why were the Democrats elected, this is why: to reveal. to chip away. to make public what was hidden. to make the Republicans cry impeachment.

[NoPasaran]

21. It will take

It will take a significant part of the Republican party deciding that they're better off without Bush than they are standing by him. Impeachment is for someone like Kay Bailey Hutchison to put on the table, not Nancy Pelosi.

[EFerrari]

28. No. It's for the American electorate to put on the table,

That's what it really takes.

Kay? I don't think so.

[NoPasaran]

87. Kay? Yeah, I don't think so either

That's why I bring her up. It would actually take senators like her to turn on Bush to actually make the impeachment fantasy reality.

[Joe Fields]

34. All I know is that I'm sick of having one real crisis or scandal

after another EVERY FUCKING DAY AND NO ONE IS SERIOUSLY TALKING ABOUT IMPEACHING THIS WAR CRIMINAL!

[David Zephyr]

42. It is the responsibility of the members of the House to impeach this criminal.

It's high time. Agreed.

[Joe Fields]

77. Yes I know, and it's way past high time. I've been calling for this

for years now.

[unkachuck]

40. what reason?....

....they both work for the same corporations?....

....if you live in a governmental system in which your leaders can lie you and your nation into an illegal war and remain unaccountable, you live in a pretty shitty system....

[David Zephyr]

43. Well, it's beginning to look that way...

I think that there will be an uprising within the House very soon with John Conyers, Dennis Kucinich and others raising the stakes for hearings for impeachment to begin. Once that happens, we will see if we have a duopoly or not.

[OHdem10]

44. It will take getting people in every state and

district becoming passionate enough to make calls
equivalent to a Blitz and unrelenting to the News
Media--all channels MSM and Cable. If they do not
call, send letters or EMails.

The same goes for Congress. Each person contact
their Senators and Congressmen

It takes some time. This is what the Right did
when they went after Clinton.

As the pressure mounts, hopefully some Republicans
will see the light and do their part.

The Media and Congress has to feel pressure from
viewers and or constituents.

[David Zephyr]

49. Yes. The "I" word needs to be a daily drum.

It is the responsibility of the House to impeach him. He has broken the law.

[Atman]

45. Legally, if the leadership in Vermont had shown one iota of backbone...

...we'd be there.

If a state calls for impeachment -- any state, and it only takes one -- Congress is required to address the issue. We were THIS CLOSE, until those pussies in Vermont (I'm only talking about the leadership who backed down, not the rest who voted FOR it), then it would at be discussed, and would probably even make the news, unlike the Cheney impeachment resolution.

.

[David Zephyr]

51. Yes, but they did go for it and that's a beginning.

There are a lot of nervous nellies here at the DU who are terrified of standing up to Bush. They posted against Howard Dean that he would wreck the Democratic Party. They defended Zel Miller, Joe Lieberman, Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt as we went from cowardice to door mats.

That day is done.

[WillyT]

48. Public Pressure To Do It...

:shrug:

[1620rock]

58. I give up, our system of government is is a joke. It is broken...

...beyond repair. The courts are as corrupt as the media, and the Joe six-packs sit there burping and farting and scratching their nuts listening to hate radio and fux noise, praising the manliness of * as he fights to kick ass (queers, rag-heads, gun grabbers, you name it.)....I give up. :banghead:

[David Zephyr]

82. As Jesse says, "keep hope alive", 1620rock.

He says it because he knows it's the one thing that they count on...us losing hope.

The very fear of impeachment is settling in already with many of the GOP in Congress.

[Larry Ogg]

53. I think the biggest reason they don’t want to impeach him is

that the majority of congress are conservatives, which far outnumber liberals. What would happen if it were conservatives on the right side of the isle instead of Republicans and Liberals on the left side of the isle instead of Democrats? Surprise… we have a one party democracy that wouldn’t have enough liberals to make a bowling team. What can I say? Your either with Kucinich or your with Bush…

[David Zephyr]

83. Kucinich is a great American.

And he's not afraid of the I word.

[leftofthedial]

54. 98% new Democrats

REAL Democrats this time

[Cha]

57. Important post..I tried to

recommend and there was a bug prob so I reported it.

At least Dennis Kucinich has already experienced the straw that broke the camel's back.

[David Zephyr]

84. Hi zidzi

I took off for San Diego after I began the thread and have just come back. You gotta love Dennis. I honestly believe that Bush, like all bullies, are the biggest cowards of all. And the thing he fears is being impeached by the House. I won't matter if the votes in the Senate are there or not, he would have been impeached, the hearing would have taken place and dirt would have been revealed.

Best of all, the GOP in the House and Senate are already terrified of '08 and their chances. Impeachment will only inform the American people of the corruption and wrong doing.

[Jcrowley]

62. People forcing it

When an impeachment initiative is little more than a manifestation of inside-the-Beltway partisanship, as was the case with the Clinton impeachment of the late ’90s, its proponents invite an appropriate rebuke from the citizenry. But when proposals for impeachment are grounded in popular concern for the republic in general and the application of the rule of law in particular—as are moves to sanction Bush and Cheney for illegal war making and wiretapping—the process will begin at the grassroots and grow until it cannot be denied by Washington.

So, it falls to the people to restore a proper understanding of the necessity of impeachment: by voting for local resolutions, working through state legislatures, passing petitions and protesting. The process will be helped along by the investigations of Bush administration misdeeds that will, as did the initial investigations of Watergate-related wrongs, provide steady re-confirmation of the crisis.

Nancy Pelosi and her compatriots may say that impeachment is off the table now. But, soon enough, if the people lead congressional Democrats will again learn that impeachment is back on the table.

[David Zephyr]

85. I believe that the Pelosi will eventually allow impeachment to be discussed openly.

Bush, like all bullies, is a coward. Standing up to them is the only way to stop them. The "I" word is no longer unspoken.

[mudesi]

65. K & attempted R

Hopefully this thread can get recommended (there's a bug), but if not, here's a kick.

[Jack Rabbit]

66. When polls show about 60% of American desire and expect impeachment of Bush & Cheney

Then it will sail striaght through like there was never any question about it.

[Jcrowley]

69. Kick and Rec n/t

[DearAbby]

70. Kicking this important discussion

We should be writing our Reps, with this discussion, send them this thread, what ever. Let them hear what people are saying.

The swell of people calling for Justice is what will turn this...We have to become the squeeky wheel. Bug the sheet out of them until they listen. It's our constitution, lets fight for it. It's worth that much effort isnt it?

[SoCalDem]

71. Maybe if *² went on "Fox & Fiends" and hacked Billy Graham to death with a machéte

or maybe not :shrug:

[upi402]

74. answer: elect REAL Democrats

Republican lite Dems, or New Dems, will never disrupt the corporate machine running us... and them.

[Kablooie]

75. There is only ONE thing that is defined as a high crime or misdemeanor nowadays.

And you know what that is.

EVERYTHING else no matter how destructive to human life of our country does not rise to that standard.

ILLICIT SEX is the ONLY crime possible by the President of the United States today.

And ALL our lawmakers with the exception of a few rogues agree on this.

[David Zephyr]

86. Kablooie

Sadly, that's what the new standard seems to be for impeachment: Legal, consensual sex. Breaking the laws, violating the constituion, causing the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and Marines, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians...

The good news is that Impeachment is now being discussed and it is no longer the unspoken word.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. It already has satrted

don't kid yourself, what do you think all them hearings are all about?

Care to read about Watergate? They need hearings first, all that evidence we know off, is HEARSAY until it enters the record...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. Taking risks. Not a common trait among politicians.

[Jcrowley]

79. Kick