Is it wrong to deny life insurance to a reefer smoker?

[Philosoraptor]

It's a common problem, a friend of mine applied for life insurance and was denied after being forced to pee in a cup. His marijuana levels were 'too high'. Apparently they allow for a certain level of thc in the system, 1 to 45 points on their scale, he unfortunately registered at 145, by whatever stupid scale they've come up with.

I'll bet the insurance companies don't give a shit if you're an alcoholic, but they deny pot heads outright, I don't know how they handle the cigarette smokers.

There are a lot of people out there who enjoy this illegal activity for better or worse, but what is the reasoning behind denying life insurance to a person based solely on the fact that they like to get high? Sometimes we almost forget that it's illegal, but it is for some stupid ass reason.

[vadawg]

1. not wrong, the company has a right to assign risk as they see fit,

same as if you do some sport they dont like or have a career they dont want to insure...

[MercutioATC]

2. Absolutely....unless we're considering life insurance a "right" too...

The fringe left pisses me off as much as the fringe right does, sometimes...

[Truth2Tell]

77. The fringe right pisses you off?

Coulda fooled me.

[Flaneur]

78. Delete--Life insurance, not health insurance. Nevermind.

[intheflow]

93. Are you sure you're on the right web site?

According to most of the world, DU is a fringe left site.

[RainDog]

4. too bad it's not a risk. they're just looking for more ways to exclude people

it's the insurance/pharma industrial fuck you Americans complex.

[Tailormyst]

14. Why would they want to exclude low risk paying customers?

Life insurance wants low risk clients. It's all a numbers game.

[RainDog]

19. prejudice n/t

[Tailormyst]

27. Ooookay.

You have a nice day.

[RainDog]

40. you too

do you really think that businesses in this nation do not make decisions based upon prejudice?

you demonstrate from your posts that you seem to have no knowledge of current medical understandings of the uses of cannabis. prejudice stems from stupidity.

if someone has MS they probably can't get insurance anyway, but an MS patient is not engaging in risky behavior to use the ONE medication that stops spasticity, for instance.

do insurance cos deny insurance to people on other medications? probably.

the point is that you don't understand what constitutes risk for individuals sometimes.

[Tailormyst]

56. My posts have zero to do with medical uses for pot or medical effects of pot.

In fact I am a big fan of pot for both medicinal and recreational use. You see this as an attack on pot smokers. I am saying that for the insurance companies it is solely a matter of profit.

[Romulox]

122. Nope. Most have to do with authoritarianism and "faith based" politics.

:hi:

[Tailormyst]

135. Examples please?

I don't believe I have ever been a cheerleader of authoritarians. I believe you are thinking of the wrong person. I don't even know what "faith based" politics means.

Edit: Actually never mind. I don't need an baseless, insults like yours in my space. I won't see anything else you have to say.

[Statistical]

98. Insurance companies attempt to quantify lifestyle risk.

Since they can't follow you around every second of your life to see how risky your lifestyle is they guestimate it based on certain activities.

For example some companies will deny life insurance if you SCUBA dive. The death rate from SCUBA is very low however they are making a conservative assumption that SCUBA diver = more risky lifestyle than someone whos riskiest activity is reading a book.

They aren't afraid a SCUBA diver will die in SCUBA accident but rather the propensity to take risk means they will die falling off a ladder, or in a car crash, or some other accident.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

55. Ummmm... everybody's money is green.

Sometimes their smokes are green too. :D

It's not like the guy is having dinner with the company executives or associating with them.
Insureance policies generally make money for companies business.
Clearly, that insurance company does not want to give people who use (likely) illegal drugs a policy.
Perhaps their actuarial data shows drug users as being higher risk. :shrug:

[Statistical]

95. Um companies exist to make money. They don't just exluded people.

For whatever reason this company feels that marijuana users are a higher/unacceptable risk.

There are plenty of companies that allow life insurance without physical.

[Greyhound]

85. Wow, first reply and it's exactly the anti-American tripe we've come to expect

from a Republicrat like yourself.

Institutions have "rights", individuals have "responsibilities" (except of course when the above are of the ruling class).

[krabigirl]

90. Yep. Then again, I refuse to ever get death insurance.

[liberalhistorian]

124. Then I hope you don't have any family depending

on you in case you die suddenly. Or, if you do, that they have a large financial cushion. There's nothing wrong with life insurance at all; unless you're old and single with no one else around, it's very important and it's the responsible thing to do.

[whistler162]

132. You do realize that Life Insurance companies are

betting that the insured will live a verrrrrry long time and the insured is betting that they will die in a lot shorter time!

[Tailormyst]

3. Life insurance is all based on statistics

If they find more deaths or accidents among folks with +45 then they will not cover. Same way they also won't cover many people who have major felonies or have done prison time. It's all about risk factors.

[RainDog]

6. I'd love to see actual studies.

because they don't exist.

[Tailormyst]

12. So why do you think they would turn down a paying customer?

[RainDog]

18. Where are the studies?

let me see some studies that indicate they are higher risk and we'll talk further.

you do have to exclude drinkers, you know, since that would negate any study for pot. if they class pot smoking with drinking that's false data.

[Tailormyst]

29. Ask the companies what the studies are, they might tell you

And they might not. They are not required to cover everyone. Nor is everyone required to have life insurance.

[pipoman]

140. Actuaries are the keepers of the stats

they have stats and risk tables on EVERYTHING. Some are firmly based on scientific evidence, some are based on previous claims, some are adopted internally by individual insurance companies. Actuaries are accountants of risk..they do exist in every insurance underwriter on the planet.

In 2010, a Wall Street Journal study on the best jobs in the United States listed actuary as the best job (Needleman 2010). The study used five key criteria to rank jobs: environment, income, employment outlook, physical demands and stress. A similar study by U.S. News & World Report in 2006 included actuaries among the 25 Best Professions that it expects will be in great demand in the future (Nemko 2006).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuary

[RobinA]

114. Beats Me

Life/death risk is pretty much the same for everyone.

[Renew Deal]

50. They exist

and the people that do them make A LOT of money. One of my friends dad did this work.

[liberalhistorian]

125. That's why it's so important to get a life insurance policy

at a young age, preferably late teens or twenties. Because the older you are, even if healthy with no history of any major or chronic illnesses, the harder it gets to get a good policy at a decent rate. Hubby got his policy in his twenties, whereas I only got mine a couple years ago, in my forties. He pays over three times less per month than I do for three times more coverage, even though I'm healthy with no chronic or major illnesses or any history of such. But they want to know EVERYTHING possible medical-wise, and the older you are, the more you're gonna have.

[SoCalDem]

131. and the fact that it's illegal means he "may" have to consort with unsavory types

to buy it.. perhaps in unsafe neighborhoods, opening himself up to potential personal danger..

risk is risk..

if you smoke weed and you want to buy insurance & will need a physical, just make sure you lay off the stuff long enough to pee a clean test..simple

of course there is a question that may trip him up next time.."Have you ever been denied coverage for an insurance policy?" if he says yes, they will deny him too.. if he lies & they check, they will cancel him..or not pay off if he dies..

[Bluebear]

5. Just guessing actuarially they might be considered high risk takers

because they engage in illegal activity. No judgments here, just a guess answer to your question.

[RainDog]

9. but you can get life insurance if you fly on an airplane

or work as a firefighter or...

you get the idea. this stinks of bullshit authoritarianism.

[Bluebear]

11. I hear ya

[Tailormyst]

13. Actually most regular insurers don't cover firefighters or pilots.

or police.

However, flying in a plane occasionally is not much of a risk. They will also not cover if you have trips planned to dangerous countries.

[vadawg]

17. yup ive had problems getting life insurance from outside companies in the past due to jobs

i dont see it as something bad its just the numbers game, if your within the stats then your golden if not they dont want to insure you..

[RainDog]

20. so then they need to produce studies to show the risk nt

[vadawg]

22. why do they need to show the risk, its their company and its their stats that they use

hell if they want to deny any lifestyle choice they deem dangerous then they should be able to, its their money they are putting on the line..

[RainDog]

24. fine.

but don't claim they have some objective reason then.

[vadawg]

28. they do, their stats show that people who regularly engage in illegal activity are more likely to

die, or it could be that they find in their numbers that people who do a lot of pot are more likely to die in train crossing accidents, or do you just think that they dont like pot smokers...

[RainDog]

33. LOLOLOL!!!!!

... people who "do" a lot of pot are more likely to die in train crossing accidents?!?!?!?!

lol.

since more and more adults over the age of 50 are smoking pot since they cannot afford meds, or because they find out it is better for them than prescribed meds...

yeah, those pot grandpas are probably more likely to park their cars on a train track and listen to Pink Floyd. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

show me the studies and then we'll talk.

[vadawg]

39. no idea if the train crossing stats bear this out, lol its just an example i know off

but these guys have acturial figures up their wazoo...

[Mugu]

128. If nothing else, your odds of being killed by the authorities goes up. n/t

[vadawg]

136. only if you do something dumb when the authorities confront you

big tips are not to try to outrun the cops, dont pull weapons on cops, and dont fight cops if you are being arrested. These three rules can pretty much cut your odds down to almost zero for being killed, though there is always the possibility that something can go wrong..

[Bluenorthwest]

41. Are you claiming that some people have a lower risk of death?

This is about life insurance. Everybody dies. Anyone who pays for a policy will use that policy at some point, as everybody dies. Vegan athletes, raving drunks, everybody drops dead. There is no such thing as a life insurance policy with no risk of paying. Not even a higher or lower one. No one gets out alive.
So explain to me the 'lifestyle choices' that are proven to extend a person's lifespan. The lifestyle choices that remove the common end of death that we all share.

[vadawg]

44. yup but the chances are that i will die earlier than my buddy, due to lifestyles

jobs, and dangers that we put ourselves in, yes he may get run over tomorrow but the stats would show that i am many times more likely to die younger than him and therefore have paid less premiums. The lifestyle choices dont neccassarily lengthen your life but theres plenty that will shorten it...

[Tailormyst]

57. Death within a certain period of time.

[Flaneur]

79. Delete--Life insurance, not health insurance. Nevermind.

[mudplanet]

81. Firefighters and full time pilots are covered by special policies.

[Tailormyst]

84. Yes- but not by the regular type private policies.

[michreject]

23. Exactly

The insurance company views it that if they (pot smokers) openly break one law, then they will break another without regard.

[Subdivisions]

7. 145? That's all? Lightweight... n/t

[Philosoraptor]

21. Yeah, that's a sorry ass number for sure...

[Dogtown]

8. If pee-inna-cup

becomes a common requisite for insurance, I will absolutely declare our government corporate/feudalism.

[RobinA]

119. I Think

they denied him coverage not for pot smoking but for shear stupidity. OK, do you smoke pot the night before you go for a job interview? Do you smoke pot before you go for life insurance, which everybody knows has a good chance of testing you? I mean, come on people, whatever happened to defensive toking?

[randr]

10. This is bull shit

These insurance companies can determine what they consider risk for any inane reason. What if they start testing for environmental toxins and deny coverage based on those risks?
A person who smokes tobacco or drinks to excess is at a far larger health risk and potential candidate for extensive health care.
A real health policy would assess health and provide education in order to lessen risks.

[Cal Carpenter]

15. This thread is about life insurance, not health insurance

[Trillo]

69. the OP was also about marijuana, that relates to medicine and thus, to health

Since it appears to many of us that there are ultimately only a few "owners" ahem, excuse me, "controlling owners", who take their vastly excessive disposable income to buy up more corporate shells to create the false appearance of ownership diversity, what ultimately is the difference between life insurance and health insurance, or for that matter, life insurance vs. death insurance, if all stocks are owned by just a very few of the same folks?

Anyway, the OP was also about marijuana, which as you need to know since it appears you don't, is a medicine being prescribed by doctors. If someone takes a half an aspirin a day for some reason, does the life insurance company deny coverage?

We've been living under the "rules" and predjudices of a very few folks, all the while they make ignorant assertions like there is no connection between life insurance and health insurance shells with the effect of deception.

http://www.insidescience.org/research/study_says_world_s_stocks_controlled_by_select_few
As an OT aside, isn't it curious that study was performed in 2007, and within a relatively short period of time, there was a global financial crisis that effectively socialized the risk among non-owners?

[Cal Carpenter]

72. Dude

It appeared to me that the person I was replying to was talking about health insurance based on this statement "A person who smokes tobacco or drinks to excess is at a far larger health risk and potential candidate for extensive health care", so I only made my remark to clarify what the OP was about. I may have misunderstood randr, I don't know.

I am by no means defending any insurers - not health insurance or life insurance. Nor am I trying to vilify cannabis users of any kind, medical or otherwise.

So please, don't make assumptions about me when I just made a very simple statement in my post. You are assigning me beliefs that I do not have.

[Trillo]

83. No worries!

You wrote, "You are assigning me beliefs that I do not have."

I have assigned no personal beliefs to you. Reread this poorly spelled sentence of mine, 'We've been living under the "rules" and predjudices of a very few folks, all the while they make ignorant assertions like there is no connection between life insurance and health insurance shells with the effect of deception.'

The word "they" refers to the "very few folks" the study I linked to were writing about.

I saw your statement and I responded. :shrug:

[Tailormyst]

16. Smokers pay double and alcoholics are often denied coverage.

Also depression and anxiety can exclude you. Certain drugs. Many health problems, etc.

[hobbit709]

25. Show me ONE proven health problem from pot.

[Tailormyst]

32. It's not about health problems.

I am all for legalizing pot and I myself enjoy it.

[Spoonman]

127. Here you go

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090805110741.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071217110328.htm

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTON07855720080130

[hobbit709]

129. I said PROVEN

a sample study of ten people in the one, a study using smoking machines in another doesn't cut it.

[tridim]

26. Same question in a legal state.

MMJ is a constitutional right in Colorado, so I assume that denying life insurance for legal patients would be unconstitutional.

[vadawg]

30. probuably not, you can be denied for alcohol or tobacco

plus its not a right, this is a private company that is free to insure whoever they want and under what conditions...

[Tailormyst]

34. Not at all- Alcohol, prescription drugs and tobacco are also legal

Pain killers, anti-depressants, etc will also get you denied.

[tridim]

42. If that's the case then they need to be regulated immediately

Someone is going to get sued over this eventually.

Can they deny oragano users? How about people who take aspirin? :eyes:

Cannabis is medicine, not a poison like alcohol and tobacco.

[vadawg]

46. they are regulated, heavily.. if their numbers showed that having heavy concentrations of oregano

meant you ate too much pizza and where likely to be a bad risk then this too would mean that they wouldnt want your business. Remember its a business and they are looking to maximise profits not provide a service to everybody in the world..

[tridim]

52. Well, I can't prove it, but IMO cannabis is lengthening my life..

Simply due to the stress relief and quality sleep it helps me with. Stress is a known killer. Lack of stress should be something that lowers my premium, not something that disqualifies me.

I know it's technically legal, but that doesn't make it right. Regulate them.

[Tailormyst]

59. They are heavily regulated.

This isn't about a single person, it is a numbers game, a legalized gamble.

[Tailormyst]

58. This is not like health insurance. This is not a necessity.

I believe we should have socialized medicine and no one should ever have to have health "insurance" to stay healthy.

Life insurance is a gamble. Some bets are safer then others.

If they saw that people who ate oregano had a short life expectancy then non oregano eaters, they certainly would rate or deny those customers.

They are also HEAVILY regulated.

[blueworld]

31. IMO, it's wrong to deny life insurance to anyone

Tobacco smokers pay more than double premiums when they aren't refused outright. Alcohol, obesity & certain genetic "tendencies" like diabetes or sickle-cell etc. will also cause premium shock if you're not refused. The risk pools grow more restrictive every year. Yet ironically, the top executives all have huge company provided plans no matter what they do. Go figure.

For profitability sake, why can't they simply limit the amount of available insurance for higher risk groups? Say $50K instead of half a million available to a reefer user? It still sux but they can at least provide something for their families. It isn't about fairness or "common welfare", and we all know that.

I've worked for & with insurance companies nearly all my life one way or the other. Believe me, the "fairness" factor is quite small compared to the "profit" factor. They want to reap decades of premiums with limited payout. That's why there are so many "clauses" that restrict payout even if you're in great shape. Suicide clauses, accidental death etc. Even if your premiums are paid but you die under certain circumstances they will cancel payout because of "negligence".

They're greedy pigs.

[vadawg]

35. dude you realise they are businesses and they are in it to make a profit

not to be fair, the whole point of life insurance is they get the money for all the years you pay and live, they dont want to get two payments and then be hit for half a million or so. If you are so keen to get life insurance and you can change life behaviours then you do it, if not then thats your choice..

[blueworld]

43. Sho' 'nuff, dude. I've helped them do it for decades

But I don't believe that profit means cruelty or dishonesty. They may not WANT to get 2 payments & get hit with a payout but that's the gamble they set up. And even you should realize the "odds are with the house".

Now, I'm assuming you're a vegan, non-drinking saint who exercises faithfully. What happens if you die, God forbid, in an accident within the first year of being a premium holder? Should your family only receive back the premiums you've paid in plus interest?

My best friend is an 85-yr-old vegan smoker. Should her family get a bonus?

My choice is honesty & compassion. Wish you the best with your choices.

[vadawg]

48. then the solution is to start your own company and insure who you want

personally its almost impossible for me to get life insurance due to my career and pursuits, and yes statistically i am likely to die younger than my peers...

[blueworld]

63. Why is it that judgemental folks rarely read or research thoroughly?

I have plenty of life insurance for which I pay high premiums. I think everyone should be entitled to life insurance. If you don't agree, and apparently don't have any, great.

Whatever your circumstances, insurance companies can provide you with a smaller policy at greatly exaggerated rates and if you're willing to pay, IMO they should make it available to you. If you want to start a company, best of luck. I'll continue to fight for the rights of others.

[Tailormyst]

65. They do- the policies are called "Guaranteed Issue"

[Swede]

101. But not guaranteed benefit paid.

Google "post claim underwriting".

[vadawg]

66. what rights, where does it say that anyone has a right to life insurance

i have it but only through my job, but i could and can understand companys not wanting to insure a high risk, and im pretty sure i could find a company willing to take the risk but the cost would be prohibitive...

[blueworld]

73. WTF do "rights" have to do with it???

Do we need legislation to be compassionate to each other? I said in my opinion everyone should be entitled to insurance and that is my freakin' opinion. If you want a printed copy print this post!

Profit in business doesn't mean being a dishonest greedy hack! They can provide lower policies for higher premiums, remain profitable and still allow "sinners" to provide something so their families can bury them! That's ALL I'm saying.

George Bailey and Mr. Potter were both bankers - get it?????????

[Tailormyst]

64. Yup- I am uninsurable from a life insurance standpoint

Due to my build and history of anti-depressants. I understand that it isn't personal towards me because I understand how the companies work. I would be a bad risk, from a statistical point of view.

[liberalhistorian]

123. Then how would your family be protected in case,

God forbid, you died on the job as a cop? (I'm assuming you're still a cop?) Do police officers have special life insurance through their jobs? If they do, are they only covered if something happens to them on the job, or does it cover them under any cause of death?

[vadawg]

137. yup i have a policy through my job, i can get other insurance but its way expensive

my insurance is in case of any type of death, though if i die on duty or the line of duty ie im off duty but i die performing the duties of a police officer then my family get lots of other benefits. Luckily i have made provisions in other ways to ensure my family will be okay when i do drop dead...

[Tailormyst]

36. There are types of life insurance that will cover anyone

[blueworld]

45. I'/ve honestly never seen any like that without hidden clauses. Any links? n/t

[Tailormyst]

61. There certainly are- you can find them all over TV and the internet

They are called guaranteed issue policies.

[blueworld]

74. Well, technically yes you are correct

But I'm flogging a dead horse here. They all have "clauses" that limit or deny coverage under certain circumstances. I sincerely do thank you however for helping me out & for being so nice. :hi:

[Tailormyst]

76. All insurance has clauses

With guaranteed life there are limited benefits paid during the first few years. This prevents someone who knows they will die soon from getting a policy. If you look at it logically it makes sense.

I think you pretty nice too.

[blueworld]

99. Greed doesn't make sense & is just corporate Kool-Aid:) n/t

[RainDog]

37. personally, life insurance seems like a stupid place to put your money

I can understand why someone would purchase a term policy early in life if they have small children and are establishing their careers (saying this from a pre-Bush fuck you economy) but standard life insurance?

you'd be better off to put your money into an investment you understand, but just imo.

[Tailormyst]

38. It's a good thing for families.

especially ones with minor kids and/or a stay at home spouse.

[blueworld]

47. I tend to agree with you

but whole life policies were considered an "investment" years ago, so working families could borrow against them if needed. With the variety of financial instruments available to us now, like I said, I tend to agree with you.

[Renew Deal]

49. Yes, it's OK.

They are smokers participating in illegal activity which makes it more likely that they will be killed by a cop or in prison. It's not just the dangers of smoking, but the possibility of being pursued by law enforcement. Higher risk.

[RainDog]

51. since most pot smokers are white

and the majority of the prison population is black...

see "prejudice" comment, above.

the funny thing is that I'm sure insurance cos have been providing policies to pot smokers for decades and they simply didn't know it before the police state piss in a cup America that we live in now.

I guess Carl Sagan was a HUGE risk.

and Richard whazziname, the owner of Virgin Airlines. And Steve Jobs and... you get the idea.

[Enrique]

53. they used to investigate your 'moral character'

i used to work at a life insurance company and we used to have fun looking at all of the old applications on microfilm, where the applicant would be denied because her neighbor's told the investigator about all the different men that would be seen at her front door.

[madinmaryland]

54. No.

They deny it for all sorts of reasons, or will charge you a much higher rate. LI is not a right.

[salguine]

60. Has it occurred to you that it might not at all be because he "likes to get high",

but because he apparently regularly deliberately sucks smoke into his lungs? Why do you think cigarette smokers have more problems with health insurance? God knows I'm no friend of the health insurance cartels but I don't necessarily think it's unfair to lump regular weed smokers in with cigarette smokers as far as risk factors go.

Not everyone who raises issues with pot smoking does it because they're The Man out to harsh your mellow, man.

[krabigirl]

88. Um, you do know that you don't have to smoke it, right?

[krabigirl]

89. Um, you do know that you don't have to smoke it, right?

[Romulox]

121. There's no scientifc link between cancer and cannabis. Please let's use FACTS in this discussio

and not unscientific conjecture! :hi:

[salguine]

134. Where did I say anything about cancer? There a plenty of health problems other than

cancer that come from drawing smoke into your lungs.

[Tim01]

62. Pot is not legal. The insurance company is denying for criminal behavior.

It is true that pot shouldn't be illegal. But it is.

Should they also have to be fair with meth users? Crack?

The insurance companies will deny for whatever they can. And proving that you have been doing illegal drugs gives them a real good leg to stand on.

[Trillo]

71. That's a good one

:rofl: :toast:

California legalized marijuana 15 years ago by people's initiative. Your assertion, which may relate to Federal laws, illustrates why it still is important for folks with a medical-marijuana doctor's-recommendation, or their caregivers (this means growers and distributors), to be highly secretive about their activities, thus rationalizing the vague way Prop 215 was written.

[Tim01]

112. And in my state you are a criminal for using an illegal drug. nt

[Romulox]

118. You don't have a good grasp of jurisdiction, either. nt

[krabigirl]

87. Um, it's legal for medical reasons in several states.

[Tim01]

111. Then in those states it is a prescription drug.

[Romulox]

117. No it's not. You don't know of what you speak. nt

[Romulox]

116. Guess again. It is in my state, and 13 others.

:hi:

[Cerridwen]

67. No, not at all. As several posters have pointed out, they're a business

and businesses have a right, nay, an obligation, to make profit.

See for example how health insurance companies legally deny payment for health care treatments and care in order to increase their profit.

It's just business and the US is all about the sacrosanct "rights" of business.

See for example how Halliburton's stock increased as soon as one of it's own made it into the White House and was able to influence no-bid contracts in its favor. All the money they made off the US government, i.e., We, the People's tax dollars, was "just business" as noted by the fact they've never been held legally liable for any "creative" accounting or practices.

As a matter of fact, it is now law that businesses are required to make profit for their shareholders. If that means that a few biological humans here and there die, are made homeless, suffer illness or financial ruin, well, that's just too bad. Had the biological humans been smart they would have been born a business with all the "rights" and "privileges" thereof.

Hell, for that matter, a business can do pretty much anything it wants, even bringing our entire economic system to its knees, and be rescued from its folly by We, the lowly People, in our ever increasing obligation to protect, defend, and preserve the sacred rights of business.

Business, its profits and practices, is sacrosanct in the US. It's nothing personal, really. It's just business. Business can do no wrong.

All of which begs the question; Why do you hate America^©®?

[Tailormyst]

68. That's why many things, like healthcare, should never be for profit !

Life insurance is a different matter. It's a gamble, not a necessity.

[Cerridwen]

70. If you ever get a chance and are the least bit interested, read up

on the time Justice Brandeis, prior to being on the Supreme Court, took up against the "insurance companies." I believe it was the life insurance companies he went after as a scam against the working class. He lost. There is, however, much interesting information about the insurance industry and their practices. Even then the business of business trumped We, the People.

[Tailormyst]

75. I will definitely look that up.

[Greyhound]

91. I almost fainted dead away when I saw your name on this subject line.

[Cerridwen]

94. ROFL - LMAO

:rofl:

I appear to be in sarcastic mode today. There is a very nice person who is helping me to get my sense of humor back. It's a bit of a challenge these days. My "humor" is still mostly of the angry kind. *sigh*

:rofl:

:evilgrin:

[mudplanet]

80. My credit union offers 300K life insurance without an exam. Tell him to check AARP and his credit

union.

[spanone]

82. life insurance...the ultimate scam

[Froward69]

92. You said it.

Just after my father turned 80. his life insurer called and convinced him he would die in a accident. to sweeten the pie they added a zero to the end of the payout (for "free") if he would change his (paid off) $50,000 life "insurance" policy to accidental death. so if he were to have died by getting hit by a bus or struck by lightning... A cool half mil would have paid. ($500,000) as life is life he dies from prostate cancer in 2006 at 83, a natural death.

Fuckers. they ripped him off! stole $50,000 out of his pocket... all legal like.

[Tailormyst]

96. Not sure what the time limit is but:

You should look into suing the agent. What the agent did was unethical and if the statute of limitations is not up you might have a case. Also I suggest bringing the matter up to your state insurance commissioner. Also, did your father already have a history of cancer at the time he changed the policy?

[Froward69]

143. All this occoured

Before Dad was diagnosed. I ever knew it was changed before Dad was in need of it. that conversation is one that simply crushed him. when I brought up the issue with the insurance company, I was warned that I was playing around with insurance fraud. the very same response was given to me by the SIC.

no one knows Who the agent was. and the insurance company insists Dad initiated the change himself. Dad said it was all in a phone call with a one page letter for his signature... he cried when he realized he had been taken advantage of as well as how I would be burdened with his expenses.
he turned 80 in 2002. diagnosed in dec 2004. I learned about it in feb 2005, He died in feb 2006.

[krabigirl]

86. Yes, especially since cannabis can be vaporized or eaten. I think it's horrible..it's medicine ro

for many people.

[Tailormyst]

102. Many types of medicine also would cause an application to be denied.

Life insurance is different from health insurance in that it is not something necessary, at all, for life.

[Statistical]

97. Try another company (but no it isn't wrong).

Maybe company had bad record with drug users in the past.

I mean when you buy life insurance it is like gambling.
You are gambling you will die young.
They are gambling you will live for a long long time.

Maybe they have lower return on marijuana users. Maybe them lump all drug users together.

Lots of times insurance companies will have policies in place to deny people who SCUBA dive, have private pilots license, skydive ect. The risk of dying in those events is rare but they are using them to measure lifestyle. The idea is that someone who skydives might take more risks and end up dying in another way (like falling off roof, or getting into car accident).

Plenty of companies allow a certain amount of life insurance with no physical, no drug test.

[Tailormyst]

103. yes- called Non-Medical Term Life

You answer health questions, but there is no exam. Now you could lie, but if you die within 2 years they will go back two years to verify your answers before they pay.

[astroBspacedog]

100. It Depends, --

If they are using science, ---- or "sound science", ------ which was coined by Philip Morris.

[Hello_Kitty]

104. They charge cigarette smokers a higher rate but still take them. eom

[Iggo]

105. Being an ex-reefer aficionado my own self...

...and if I were the insurance guy making the decision, it might depend greatly on where he acquires his reefer.

This is life insurance and not health insurance. Dangerous lifestyle does come into play.

[Jokinomx]

106. My experience with THC in my system...

A couple of decades ago... I was going to try to get back into the mining industry. I knew I wouldn't pass their drug test for THC so I went to my HMO doctor at the time and asked him to test me. I told him I had to know that I was clean b4 I tried to get back into the mining industry.

He was a little shocked that I asked...but he complied. The test came back a little over 300. He said the medical journal rates me as "chronic". Well I had been smoking virtually everyday at the time.

Anyway, he told me to come back in 3 weeks. I did and the test was taken... It was over 500. I was shocked. I hadn't smoked at all for over a month at the time. He said the THC was being released from my cells and to come back in three months. I did... and it still registered 20.

So you can see that just because THC is in your system ... doesn't mean your high. I can attest that I had ZERO with-drawls and over the years have quit for periods of time from a few weeks to months without any ill effects.

Good Luck

:toast:

[Codeine]

107. He could just stop smoking it.

It's hardly the lifestyle and health essential it's made out to be here. Most of us get along just fine without it.

[samsingh]

108. yes

[Donald Ian Rankin]

109. If you think it is wrong, I demand that you - as a private individual - insure my life.

Insurance is a form of gambling, plain and simple. Suggesting that a bookmaker who is willing to take bets where the odds are in his favour is doing something morally wrong by not taking bets where the odds are against him is just daft.

Two things that *are* morally wrong, however, are a state as prosperous as America failing to provide decent health care for all its citizens - private bookmakers have no moral obligation to do so, but the state does - and bookmakers lobbying to prevent it doing so to avoid competition.

[TheKentuckian]

110. I can see charging more but outright denial seems unreasonable

stoner and test pilot aren't in the same damn ball park as far as risk.

I'd guess that stoners are less inclined to be at risk than square busy bodies and/or habitual joggers.

[timtom]

113. Morally and ethically wrong. Yes.

[Romulox]

115. It's wrong because it's irrational and illogical--marijuana is not associated with increased

mortality.

[Romulox]

120. Jesus Christ! WTF let the freepers into this thread? This place is becoming disgusting.

:puke:

[Therellas]

130. is it freepers or conservative democrats?

cause if its the latter.....
i dont like them either.

[Greyhound]

139. There's a difference? n/t

[tammywammy]

126. No n/t

[whistler162]

133. try here....

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7128

[DailyGrind51]

138. Actually, diagnosed alcoholism is viewed as a "pre-existing condition".

[pipoman]

141. Look up "actuary"

for your answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuary

[dsc]

142. they do screen for drinkers too

They ask the questions for mid level policies and take blood for higher level ones. I used to work for an insurance company and know of what I speak.