Something Many DUers Aren't Going To Like Or Want To Admit

[berni_mccoy]

The current accountability in education was brought to you by... Ted Kennedy. Yes, that is correct, the liberal lion of the senate shepherded NCLB through Congress with strong support from both Democrats and Republicans. So, when you find yourself outraged because President Obama agrees with this liberally supported concept, you might want to direct your outrage on those who passed NCLB.

Because a community who fired, not just the teachers, but the management as well, for failing their children only 7% whom which could pass the state math competency test, is applying a liberally supported law in doing so. But if it makes you feel better to call Obama a union buster, you can find another site to pass that falsehood around.

Obama is one of the most pro-union Presidents of all time, who signed several pro-union executive orders in his first two months putting union work in the forefront of government contracting, which when coupled with his stimulus plan, supported union workers like no other President has in decades. Let's also remember that he promoted and signed Lilly Ledbetter as well as supported minimum wage increases. So, please, take your union-busting fallacies elsewhere.

What happened in Rhode Island had nothing to do with unions and everything to do with a failed education system. And Obama is right to side with the children and thier parents of the community who acted through liberally supported legislation to change it.

[arbusto_baboso]

1. That is true. However when NCLB passed, it was with the understanding...

that it actually would be funded by the Fed. It was just one of many, many times when the Bushies flat-out lied to us.

[Statistical]

14. Here is one thing I don't get. Doesn't congress control funding?

Obama hasn't "funded" NCLB because he can't just like Bush can't.

Congress passed NCLB with no way to pay for it and every year that goes by tries to pretend it doesn't exist and they aren't responsible.

I am tired of this kind of crap from both parties.

You pass it, you fund it.

[arbusto_baboso]

15. It was passed by a Republican majorty.

Once Dems gained the majority, the monies no longer existed to fully fund it.

Place the blame where it belongs, please.

[Statistical]

17. The money has NEVER existed (at least not in last 30 years).

We deficit spend each year = putting it on credit card.

If Republicans in 2003? paid for it they would have put it on the credit card.

If the Democratic majority in 2005 decided to pay for it they .... would have put it on the credit card.

What your saying would only make sense if
a) once laws are written they are in stone and can never change. funding can never be added or removed
AND
b) There was a bunch of cash lying around when Republicans controlled Congress but all of a sudden we ran out of money.

Cut Defense budget 2% and use those funds to fully fund NCLB. It can be done. Neither party even attempts to do so.

[berni_mccoy]

19. With large support from Liberal Democrats. Passed with more than 90 votes in the Senate

And more than 350 in the House

[Statistical]

26. Thanks. Information is power.

So why didn't they require it to be funded?
Why didn't they revisit the issue when it was apparent the unfunded mandate was wrecking local budgets?

Giving politicians a pass because they have a (D) next to their name pinning all the blame of the (R) is part of the reason political crap like this happens.

[laughingliberal]

38. Yep. Nothing I know of that has prevented them from going back and funding it after we regained the

House and Senate. Except...oh, yeah....the will.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

58. +1000 nt

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tonysam]

50. Kennedy didn't create NCLB. It was Bush and it was based on the Texas

model.

Let's quit spreading falsehoods about NCLB and public education and claiming Democrats were behind it. Obama is on the WRONG side on this issue.

People need to quit being so invested in a politician and see him for what he is and that's a raging neoliberal.

[inna]

83. +1

[harkadog]

88. Kennedy was the original sponsor in the Senate

and pushed it through. Don't spread falsehoods.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

114. Ted was hoodwinked. NCLB was modeled after the Houston Miracle whose results were

deliberately skewed.

[warm regards]

98. Funding has only recently become an issue. Prior to this year, schools

were very well funded.

TOTAL PUBLIC SCHOOL EXPENDITURES: $528.7 billion

Current Expenditures: $449.6 billion
Instruction: $274.2 billion
Student Services: $23.4 billion
Food Services: $17.3 billion
Enterprise Operations: $1.0 billion
Capital Outlay: $57.4 billion
Interest on School Debt: $14.3 billion
Other Current Expenditures: $7.4 billion

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d08/tables/dt08_177.asp

[inna]

113. lame sig. Edited to add: and post, too.

:thumbsdown:

[warm regards]

124. I'm sorry if reality doesn’t fit your world view. I really am.

:hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Union busting would be when you fired good teachers

...and replaced them with non-union unqualified teachers for a lower cost.

There may be many legitimate gripes in this case, but union busting ain't one of them.

[paulsby]

11. i agree the union busting thing is a sham

if a PD fired a bunch of incompetent cops, nobody would accuse them of "union busting"

[laughingliberal]

29. If they fired an entire department and moved towards replacing them with non-union policemen

or 'charter police departments' I would.

[paulsby]

41. that's a good point

i wasn't aware they plan on replacing the fired teachers w/scabs

if so, i retract my statement & humbly apologize

[laughingliberal]

43. I'm not really sure but I suspect it is another move to get more charter schools.

At the very least, it cleared out everyone with seniority and allows them to start over with new hires at the low end of the pay scale.

[Hannah Bell]

127. and, as with new hires at gm, & the new non-union gm plant, to, uh, "re-negotiate".

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

71. They're not.

The plan Obama and Duncan are supporting for failing schools includes:

A. Replacing current system with Charter school.

or

B. Firing at least 50% of school staff, including administrators. (According to NPR this morning, at R.I. district may re-hire some teachers)

or

C. Increasing class hours and staff meetings (according to same report, R.I. staff refused working additional hours)

or

D. I forget the 4th plan, but it didn't involve union busting either.

[laughingliberal]

76. So, option A

Replacing the current system with charter schools will involve using union teachers at the charter schools?

option B:

I'd lay money on them rehiring the teachers who are at the lower salary levels and keeping those who have the most seniority 'fired.'

[Hannah Bell]

128. uh, 1) most charter schools = non-union. 2) all the other options = violating existing

contract & regulations. 3) if you read the details, every option includes significant moves toward ending any power unions have in education.

[goclark]

85. Exactly ~

[Hannah Bell]

126. union busting would be when you fired an entire school in violation of contract, precedent, & esta-

blished law.

and per the dept of ed comments in the federal register, they *know* it.

but they're hoping enough scabs will support it to ram it through.

[Cerridwen]

3. But, moooooommmmmmmm, Teddy did it, too!

Yeah. My mom didn't buy it either.

[Starry Messenger]

4. Ted Kennedy sucked on this issue too.

Yeah, I went there.

[laughingliberal]

30. Ted got suckered by Bush on this. nt

[Starry Messenger]

62. I know.

The OP pissed me off dragging the name of the dead into this fight he's having with reality.

[Rage for Order]

106. Are you serious?

George W. Bush the genius fooled Ted Kennedy the idiot? That's your position?

[inna]

84. Great photoshop! Love it. :) Privatization = Piratization. nt

[Starry Messenger]

86. Thanks inna!

:D I'm an art teacher. I worked out a little rage there.

[SidDithers]

5. But I read right here that Obama DESPISES public education...

K&R

Sid

[laughingliberal]

31. Could be the reason his Secretary of Education is such a fan of charter schools. nt

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftstreet]

7. 'Obama is one of the most pro-union Presidents of all time'

:banghead:

[inna]

12. amazing, isn't it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7825876&mesg_id=7825876

[leftstreet]

13. Yep!

Sometimes there's nothing more entertaining than a 'refresh' of the GD page!

:-)

[laughingliberal]

33. double yep. nt

[WCGreen]

8. It's funny that Law and Order had an episode last night pitting

Charter schools against a near by public school and how the kids interacted...

Interesting. Didn't take sides just presented the issue to a lot of folks who aren't aware of what is really going on at the street level.

It's the episode with Debra Winger as a public school principal trying her best to do what is right for her students.

[ChicagoSuz219]

25. She would have been more sympathetic if the kids weren't...

...murderers & rapists! I'm just sayin'... ;-)

[WCGreen]

36. It is a crime drama, after all...

But I really do see your point.

In L&O defense, it really does a good job of putting a lot of the issues out on table in more realistic terms.

Law and Order touches a lot of issues that other drama wouldn't touch with a ten foot poll. It's probably why they have been on the air for 20 years now.

It kind of reminds me of the Naked City series from bank in the early 60's...

[ChicagoSuz219]

108. Naked City is on Me-TV here in Chicago...

...I watch it all the time! :-)

L&O is supposed to be based on actual news stories... was this one of them?

[WCGreen]

117. Yea, I seem to remember this story...

Mrs. WCGreen loves to pick stuff out and show it to me while we eat...

I haven't seen Naked City for twenty years or so....

[ChicagoSuz219]

120. I'm watching it now! :-) n/t

[Fumesucker]

9. "God made the Idiot for practice, and then He made the School Board."

-Mark Twain

I didn't realize that the school board was fired as well..

That's what I love about DU, you learn something new every day.

[Tailormyst]

10. Actually: never mind

You just keep saying the same desperate pathetic, apologetic BS over and over. You can just spin yourself right off into nothingness. "Poof" you are gone.

[NJmaverick]

16. Good point

[nykym]

18. Call it what you want...

Union busting, unfair egregious whatever. When a school system fails to properly educate it's students it has failed them, us and the nation. I support the firings. And many of you know that had you achieved the same level of success in your job you would be out on your ass as well union or not. There are no protections for poor inadequate performance, that is unless you are a member of Congress.

[Fire1]

73. When your job depends on the values, success and/or

failures of others, then talk to me.

[nykym]

143. To be honest with you

I can't think of a job that doesn't require values, success and/or failures of others. Unless you are one of the affluent class and none of the above applies to you.

[girl gone mad]

122. If you were on Wall St., you'd be getting a big fat bonus..

and if you worked for Haliburton, a nice fat no-bid contract. Meritocracy is for the little people.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Political Heretic]

21. I'm more than happy directing my outrage where it belongs.

Congressional sponsors and supporters of this piece of shit bill, George W. Bush who pushed it and supported it, and anyone who currently defends it, including this President.

"Obama is one of the most pro-union Presidents of all time"

Sorry bernie, but UNIONS GET TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, not you. And UNIONS say that they are reeling from setback after setback and defeat after defeat from this administration.

[joeybee12]

34. +1000...yeah, and with that thinking, Obama is a "fierce advocate"

of gay rights.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. What, Bernie, if Teddy did it that means it is auto-righteous?

Best remember that. Teddy's largest impact on my local political life was when he challenged the sitting Democratic President all the way to the convention floor. And if Teddy did it, it is auto-great, right Bernie? That means this Union busting, anti equality waste of space can be replaced with the full support of people such as yourself.
Thanks for giving your support to Primary Challenge 2012, Bernie! I see what you mean, Teddy was always right, even when swerving off the road in a drunken frenzy, always, always right! According to Bernie.
Bookmarking!

[Political Heretic]

23. Unions themselves say they are "reeling" from unexpected defeats handed to them by Obama

Unions say they are reeling.

You say Obama is the most pro-union President in the history of our entire country.

Who do you think I'm going to believe? Unions, or non-Union WH shills who claim to speak for Unions?

[Political Heretic]

24. "Labor Unions Regroup After Being Stunned by Losses Under Obama, Democrats"

Source: BusinessWeek - not exactly a shill for leftists or labor!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7825876&mesg_id=7825876

[laughingliberal]

27. Yeah, most DUers are aware how Bush screwed Kennedy over on this

The mandates stood and the funding never materialized. Continuing to treat NCLB as if it has any legitimacy is dishonest. No money to help improve the failing schools means they continue to fail and the push for privatization of our public school system marches on aided by Obama's Secretary of Education who has always been a big proponent of this. Like the way health care changed when the for profits took over our hospitals? You're gonna love the privatization of the public school system. BOHICA.

[BR_Parkway]

28. I'm not a proponent of testing and I am a union supporter - but only 7%

passing the math test? That shouldn't even be a question that there's plenty of failure to go around and that something drastic needed to be done. Unless they screwed up and gave the test for kids 4 grades older or something. Or if the rest of the state had similarly dismal results

[ipaint]

42. That is a bogus number. Got a link? nt

[BR_Parkway]

45. Ask the OP, I was commenting on that

[berni_mccoy]

47. Not bogus at all. LINK:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7820533

[ipaint]

61. 7% of one grade level and that is a 4% improvement from 2008.

Most of the kids don't speak english. 90% of the kids live in poverty and the population is transient.
All I'm reading in every news article "7% aren't proficient in math!ll!"...gasp, the horror.

Well how about the break down of how many kids can speak english, how many kids are new to the 11th grade, how many kids are new to the high school. How much money is available for extra help, tutoring in english, remedial math for kids who this may be their 3rd, 4th or 5th school.

What's the backstory and how come this 7% meme has taken off, no questions asked.

I've seen this type of bulldozing approach to hide the truth too many times from right wing conservatives with an entirely different $goal$ in mind to accept these assumptions about the teachers, no questions asked, no context allowed.

As I have said Milton Friedman would be proud, create a disaster through years of neglect and then burn the place down with a blowtorch and replace it with a for profit non union system that will proceed to screw the kids at every turn.

A neo-liberal dlc, reagan democrat, gingrich republican wet dream.

[Starry Messenger]

65. It's amazing how quickly this meme spread

If Bush were pushing this crap, people here would be tearing it apart. For a party that prides itself on being anti-authoritarian it sure has some good little foot soldiers. They're eating this up.

[ipaint]

74. Yes, amazing isn't it. The people spreading it unquestioningly are NOT to be trusted.

This kind of black and white, slash and burn approach means one thing, some conservative wants to make a buck.

30 years of this bullshit and you still get democrats towing the republican party line.

[Starry Messenger]

77. Berni's pretty transparent. He's a party guy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=388&topic_id=17349&mesg_id=17373

Some people are still waiting for the Great Pumpkin to arrive and won't admit he doesn't exist. They are desperately trying to keep us all in the fold because they think winning elections is the one fix to everything. Now that they are being shown they are wrong they are punishing us like the fist of an angry god for their cognitive dissonance.

[berni_mccoy]

67. 4% improvement ended up with 7% competency? Yep. Still fail.

Oh and you've conveniently left out that the teachers were the among the top paid teachers in the state making over 73k per year on average. They were paid to deal with the challenges of that region. And they still failed.

[ipaint]

72. Link to back up the salary number? nt

[berni_mccoy]

75. Here you go

http://www.projo.com/news/content/central_falls_update_02-11-10_5HHDMPV_v52.398afed.html

[ipaint]

79. Right out of the union busting superintendant's mouth.

Guaranteed it's a lie. Sorry got an independant link from someone without a stake in the corporate take over of the school.

I know authoritarians love taking the word of the elite in power but I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.

[berni_mccoy]

82. If she's lying about their salaries, the journalist could easily verify. Not one

Teacher has spoken contrary on this. If she is indeed lying, she deserves whatever backlash cometh. But something tells me it is true. And if it is true, it obviously makes a difference, otherwise you would not have asked.

[laughingliberal]

44. Might be more credible if they had fired all the math teachers in that case

I suspect another agenda.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

63. Yeah, the big problem being the same all over. The corporatists want to privatize our public school

system. So, they keep it underfunded, guaranteeing failure and giving them an excuse to keep sending more of our education money to charter schools. If you like for profit health care, you're gonna love the new 'public' school system.

[mmonk]

130. +1

And I still remember when Democrats supported education. But that's not a solution that works with tody's rightwing philosophies of public or "government" schools or the DLC, our self appointed conservative bosses of the Democratic Party.

[omega minimo]

32. A nationwide move to privatize education, bust teachers/unions, replace public schools with charters

is going on now, under Arne Duncan and Obama administration.

[laughingliberal]

37. Yep. It's disgusting. It was infuriating under the Repubs and inexcusable with alleged Democrats in

in power.

[omega minimo]

55. Straight out of Gingrich Contract on America, being enabled by Frank "Death Tax" Lunz

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. What would Ted Kennedy know about public education?

I know JFK attended Choate (a snazzy prep school in Connecticut), and he and all his siblings probably attended Catholic schools for elementary school.

I'm serious about this. What would Ted Kennedy have known about public education except by hearsay? I doubt that he or his siblings or their children had any personal experience with it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

39. Are you saying the 'turnaround model' - fire at least half of the teachers - was in NCLB?

Or was advocated by Ted Kennedy?

I can't see it mentioned before August 2009: http://ed.gov/news/pressreleases/2009/08/08262009.html

Perhaps it was a federal program before it, but I can't find details of it.

I think the "fire at least 50% of the teachers" idea is dumb. Some of the teachers may be too bad to continue; it's possible that half or more are; but a directive that you must fire at least 50%, even if that includes individual teachers who are doing OK, is an authoritarian, ideological, stubborn, reality-blind knee-jerk reactionary policy from grandstanding politicians who want headlines rather than a decision about what's actually best for the children.

It's for politicians who want to say "look at me! I'm tough! If something's wrong, I fire lots of people!"

It's a Pointy-Haired Boss idea.

[laughingliberal]

46. "It's for politicians who want to say "look at me! I'm tough! If something's wrong, I fire lots of

people"

Really, it's for the corporatists who want to destroy public education in order to turn it over to the for profits. You know, like they did with our hospitals and prisons.

[laughingliberal]

40. Nothing brings out people's inner corporatists like a little teacher bashing. nt

[tonysam]

48. False. It was by George W, Bush.

Thanks for the neoliberal spin. Face it: Obama is NO friend to public education.

Quit peddling falsehoods about public education.

[berni_mccoy]

51. Next time, do a little research before spouting off

Thanks for playing though.

[tonysam]

53. No, quit spewing garbage, Berni.

I KNOW more about this issue than you. Ted Kennedy was upset with the way this thing wasn't funded, but he DIDN'T FUCKING CREATE IT. IT WAS BUSH.

Your hero Obama is a neoliberal on this issue. Face the fucking facts before spouting off with garbage.

[laughingliberal]

60. Correct. Ted supported it with the understanding it would be funded.

Bush screwed him. But there we go again, letting the facts get in the way of some good corporatist talking points.

[berni_mccoy]

70. Ted passed it with large support from both dems and repubs

And Congress is responsible for funding, not the president. The fact remains that the priciples on which NCLB were founded, the liberal democratic ones, are the same principles that got those teachers fired.

[laughingliberal]

80. NCLB was founded on liberal democratic principles? Bush's NCLB?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

and for good measure:

:puke: :eyes: :puke:

[Skittles]

100. you'll have to forgive berni

he's in Pretzel Mode

[Forkboy]

136. When isn't he?

[tonysam]

54. Unrecommend.

I fucking hate anti-public school propaganda put on this board, and claiming NCLB was some kind of Democratic proposal.

Obama is NOT FUCKING PRO-UNION WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC EDUCATION.

Next time "Berni," write about something of which you have some fucking knowledge. Education is not it.

Stop with the Obama can do no wrong nonsense.

[mzteris]

59. did you used to be a sailor? n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

87. Obama's seeking an additional $1.35 billion dollars to help failing schools.

He's not closing schools. He's not cutting positions. He's not killing public education.

Enough with the dishonest hysteria.

[laughingliberal]

99. Perhaps he should tell Arne

He's out pushing charter schools for all he's worth.

[freddie mertz]

56. I wish I could unrec this one hundred times.

I dunno, something about how much I personally hate anti-union, anti-public school bullshit.

I can't claim to speak for Ted Kennedy, as the OP pretends to do.

But I know right wing union-busting crap when I see it.

And that is what happened in RI.

[laughingliberal]

57. right there with you. I regret I have but one unrec to give to this post. nt

[NashVegas]

64. For Once, I Agree

It's something we aren't allowed to say out loud: the "Me, too!" contingent and its promoters have contributed to making the school room a place where it's next to impossible for even moderately motivated students to learn in peace. It's made it impossible for teachers to fail unmotivated students. It's not a liberal thing, it's just a thing.

[NYC_SKP]

68. Recommend. I'm one of few here who know a principal AND several teachers in the Ocean State, (RI)

While nobody there is happy, or proud, neither does anyone I've spoken with have the idiot streak that would blame the administration for this.

Union busting LOL. The school had to choose from four reform models:

...Weingarten said the local school superintendent abruptly halted negotiations with the local teachers' union. Weingarten said she personally appealed to Rhode Island's new education commissioner, Deborah Gist, to restart talks but was rebuffed.

The shake-up at Central Falls High School came after Gist identified it as among the worst 5 percent in the state. She ordered local school officials to pick from one of four reform models, including mass firings.

Superintendent Frances Gallo said she initially wanted teachers to agree to changes including a longer school day, offering more tutoring and receiving extra training over the summer. She offered the teachers more pay for some, but not all, of the changes.

Gallo said she resorted to firings when talks with the teachers' union broke down.
...

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/education/22713048/detail.html

The four reform models:

Final Rules Set for School Turnaround Grants

States, Districts Must Pick From Four Models for Grants to Fix Lowest-Performing Schools

December 4, 2009

-snip-

To get their money, states must target schools that rank in the bottom 5 percent in student achievement. In one change from the proposed regulations, the definition of lowest-achieving schools has been expanded to include high schools with graduation rates below 60 percent for a “number of years.”

The money will flow to states based on the Title I formula for aid to disadvantaged students, but states will award the money competitively to districts.

School districts must agree to one of four turnaround models: closing the school and sending students to higher-achieving ones; turning it around by replacing the principal and most of the staff; “restarting” the school by turning it over to a charter- or education-management organization; or implementing a mandatory basket of strategies labeled “transformation.”

During a 30-day public-review period for the proposed regulations, 180 comments were submitted, many of them critical of what was described as highly prescriptive reforms from the federal government. Critics said the models might not work in communities where teacher and principal shortages exist, where teachers’ union contracts pose barriers, or where closing an entire school isn’t feasible.

-snip-
http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2009/12/04/14brief-b1.h29.html?tkn=QUVFjtaZOAG18XUc%2Fn90N6akQTBVdMIpNL9d&print=1

In preemptive defense of the plan lets keep in mind that schools don't HAVE to try to get these grants.
I think that the fourth option, "implementing a basket list of strategies", creates a lot of opportunities for schools that don't wish to apply the other three.

Blame Obama, blame Arne Duncan?

Nah, bullshit.

:patriot:

[amborin]

69. totally bogus garbage

[MadHound]

78. Just because dear ol' Teddy had a hand in it doesn't make it right.

But you're also leaving out the rest of the story, namely that NCLB wasn't and hasn't been funded, one of the killing curses of the legislation, one that Kennedy later decried.

But Kennedy aside, it really doesn't matter if Jesus Christ, Allah, and Confucius co-sponsored the bill, it is a bad piece of legislation, as we have seen during the ensuing years. It results in students being taught to the test, subjects that aren't tested being dropped, kids, teachers and others being put under a huge amount of stress, all for the sake of a standardized bubble one size fits all test that any educator or psychologist will tell you is a piss poor way of assessing anybody about anything.

Your general premise for this is that we should support these sort of wholesale firings because hey, it's Obama approved so it must be OK. This sort of blind hero worship is just as bad when it is done by Dems as when it's done by 'Pugs. You need to start judging the man by his actions rather than by what letter he has behind his name. The fact of the matter is that Obama appointed a SoE who is very hostile to teachers, teachers' unions and public schools in general. Obama's actions when it comes to education reflects his agreement with Duncan's position. There is no funding for NCLB, his Race to the Top program requires cash strapped states to drop restrictions on union busting charter schools in order to get education funding, his push for merit pay tied to tests and more and more tests all belie your believe that this man who supports unions, teachers and our public school system.

So wake the fuck up, put your pom-poms away. NCLB, combined with Obama's actions are destroying our public education system all in order to replace it with a less effective, but more profitable (for the few) private system that is going to do untold harm to generations of children, not to mention this country.

Your slavish devotion is simply disgusting, wake up and smell the roses.

[laughingliberal]

81. Totally on target, there! nt

[inna]

89. exactly. well said.

[berni_mccoy]

90. Not just Kennedy but nearly all the democrats in congress

[laughingliberal]

103. I believe they thought the program would be funded at the time they voted for it

Regardless, it is a bad program and I don't care who voted for it.

[MadHound]

116. Yeah, I know how many Dems were in on it.

Which really doesn't make much of a case for continuing to support them now, being idiots and what all to go along with this shit because their corporate masters wanted to fire the opening salvo in privatizing schools and Bushboy was the perfect idiot son to do so. These are, at least nominally, our representatives, the ones who do what we want them to do, the ones that we all rely on (though to a lesser and lesser extent) to do the right thing. They could have fought the good fight, you know like the 'Pugs are doing now as the minority party. But instead they rolled over and pissed all over themselves to please the 'Pugs and their corporate handlers, much like they're doing now with HCR.

You just keep more and more of a case against this party and its merits, which have now apparently dwindled down to few and none.

[Mike 03]

91. I always read, look forward to, and respect your posts.

But to be honest, this one sounds a bit hard to believe. Maybe you are right, but it doesn't make sense. But I will stay tuned in order to attempt to get more informed, in the event I am not.

[Grand Taurean]

92. Ted has done some things that I would never have done

such as sponsoring NCLB and H1-B visas.
Both need to be scrapped ASAP!
But blame Bush for this one too. It was also his idea and Ted went along with it as well as many Democrats in congress.

[berni_mccoy]

93. Bush certainly promoted it, but Ted sponsored it and a vast majority of both parties

agreed to it. And it's the fundamental principle on which the school district fired the teachers.

It's not union busting as some would claim. It's addressing a failed school.

[laughingliberal]

104. It's a bad program and I think most here opposed it at the time

Especially after Bush pulled the old bait and switcheroo by passing the odious mandates and then not coming through with the funding.

[Grand Taurean]

107. Where are you going to get 93 trained teachers from?

[anonymous171]

94. Is there anyone you won't throw under the bus to defend Obama?

[berni_mccoy]

96. Who is being thrown under the bus?

[laughingliberal]

97. Not that I've seen yet. nt

[QC]

109. No. n/t

[Forkboy]

137. No.

[freddie mertz]

141. I think I know the answer.

Teachers are just the latest sacrifice for the greater glory of Anointed.

[asdjrocky]

101. Wow.

You blame the dead guy. Just when I think you can't top yourself by stooping any lower, you manage to do it.

This is embarrassing.

[laughingliberal]

123. Oh, anything for the cause, you know. nt

[aungsungsuchi2]

102. ted kennedy believed in doing, not just talking...

...

[Kalun D]

105. Comedian

"Obama is one of the most pro-union Presidents of all time"

BWAH HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!

ROTFLMFAO!!!!

stop it, your going to put comedians out of work


UN-RECOMMEND TIMES TEN

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LWolf]

111. Not accurate.

Ted Kennedy was certainly a supporter of NCLB, along with George Miller. Which tarnished both, in my eyes.

Rhode Island has everything to do with unions. Central Falls is not performing worse than other similar schools in that area.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7815529&mesg_id=7815682

Yes, their performance is poor. The firing of the staff is a political move, though, not a move to make things better. It didn't work well for Duncan in Chicago, it won't work here, and yes, BY GOD, Obama is a union-buster.

That's the whole point of firing the teachers. To get around their contract. Not to improve anyone's opportunities.

[inna]

112. ...

This is Obama's education policy: Bust unions, privatize education, fire the teachers, convert to charter schools.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marr]

118. You're one of my favorite comedians.

Are these routines available on i-tunes?

[freddie mertz]

142. LOL! BM! The worst comedian in the universe since...

[upi402]

119. You saying Obama is more pro union that Ted Kennedy?

:shrug:

[Frank Booth]

121. Nice point, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

Apparently, all teachers are incapable of being anything but perfect. At least according to DU.

[Hannah Bell]

125. Apparently, the privatizers have no defense but an army of straw men.

[gleaner]

129. I never cease to be amazed ..

by all of the attempts I see to slide Obama's responsibility for his own actions on to others. Alive, dead, sick or unknowing it doesn't matter. It is never Obama's choice. He just stands there while events swirl around him doing nothing, right? Never did a thing he had to answer for in his life, right?

Wrong. Whomever started a bad idea it doesn't mean that Obama has to continue it. Get real. He is responsible now, not anyone else. As Truman said, "The buck stops here." And don't try to blame the parents and children. Everyone has 20/20 hindsight. Maybe they don't understand what this means to their community. You would be amazed, well maybe you wouldn't, at the capacity of people to believe only what they want to believe despite the evidence of their own eyes and ears. Obama is selling out the middle class and the poor. He is doing it of his own free will. He is doing it because for whatever reason, he wants to.

I for one, would appreciate it if you let yourself believe what you want until your face hits the pavement, but stop trying to blow smoke up the butts of the people who do see, do understand and know that nothing good is coming from this White House.

[cornermouse]

131. NCLB reminds me of the Cheshire Cat's smile

You know, the one he disappears into, a little at a time.

[lamp_shade]

132. I agree with all your points. I also happen to know some REALLY BAD teachers, especially

those closing in on retirement. My heart breaks for the students.

[freddie mertz]

140. Ted Kennedy would puke if he read this.nt.

[madokie]

133. Didn't Ted say this was the biggest mistake of his senate career

I remember him saying something to the effect that he was out right lied to by the bushco crew. It bothers me not that Ted was in the lead on this what bothers me is that someone seems to not know that he acknowledge the mistake he made.

[freddie mertz]

134. He was certainly not happy with the end result.

And again, I don't want to speak for him, but let's just say it is hard to imagine Ted endorsing this action, let alone endorsing it with the kind of reactionary glee we are seeing in a few posts here.

I am surprised that anyone on DU could hate teachers and unions this much.

[madokie]

135. So am I,

But then again we have all sorts of peeps here, dems, :puke's, dino's and pukes in denial

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freddie mertz]

139. Teachers are "vermin" now?

Maybe we should ship them all to the desert, reopen the camps from the 1940s.

Welcome to Camp Arneson, teacher vermin scum!

Thanks for helping to reveal the true character of the teacher-and-union-hating far right: looks like they are Obama's new best pals.

[kjackson227]

144. Oh, please stop with the dramatics...

I didn't say ALL teachers are vermin, but yes, there were/are some (as in any profession). I won't go into detail, but I do stand by my assessment. I'm sure there are great teachers, but personally I have come across only a few... sorry if this upsets you, but it's what I've experienced and it's my opinion.

[freddie mertz]

145. It doesn't "upset" me, it PISSES ME OFF.

I owe a lot to the teachers that taught me, and now I try to emulate them as a teacher myself.

Also, I am the son of a teacher. And brother of a teacher.

Some of my colleagues must have given you bad grades, I guess ("blame the teacher" syndrome, very familiar to those of us in the biz).

Your choice of words helps me to understand why.

[kjackson227]

146. whatever...

[freddie mertz]

147. You got nothing.