Michael Moore: 2nd crash will make '08 look like coming attractions

[laughingliberal]

<snip> Michael: It's not going to get fixed. There's going to be another crash. The commercial real estate bubble hasn't burst yet. That's going to burst. The credit card debt is so huge right now, it will never be repaid. That's a house of cards waiting to fall. So the crash of '08 is going to look like coming attractions. And we're in for a much, much worse time. That's how I honestly feel.
But you don't want to hear that from me, do you? I mean, I'm only the guy who said that there weren't going to be any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that we were being lied to. And I'm the guy who 20 years ago made his first film saying that General Motors was a piece of crap company that was going to slide down the hill and bring us all down with it. So don't listen to me. <snip>

http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2010/3/3/04014/30136/Diary/Michael-Moore-Interviewed-On-TYT-w-Transcript-

Not the first time I've heard this. Are we ready?

[SpiralHawk]

1. "Tough shit. Smirk." - xCommander AWOL & Republicon FAIL Cronies

"We know we deserve full credit for setting this up with our Shock & Awe Squander & Fail Strategery, and our Patented Profiligate Republicon Borrow-and-Spend 'conservativism.' Smirk. But tough shit for you American proles. Smirk. Our overpaid corporate media pimps will stay on bent knee and blame it all on Obama. Bwaaa ha ha ha ha. Smirk."

- xCommander AWOL & Republicon FAIL Cronies

[arcadian]

3. "...now watch this drive."

[pezDispenser]

65. made me lol

[SOS]

143. "this sucker could go down"

GW Bush on the US economy, September 24, 2008

[Mithreal]

50. Obama isn't looking back, why should "overpaid corporate media pimps?"

[Mithreal]

51. .

[arcadian]

150. The sun should be labeled "Wealth & Prosperity"

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughBeaumont]

5. "Wow, you mean there's a PRICE for our uncontested and unchecked GREED?"

"Oh well, better THEM than us! No more customers? WHO CARES! I got mine (snicker)! Those losers in the game of life should have been prepared and worked HARDER! I need a light for my Cohiba, anyone got a spare C-Note? HAW HAW HAAAAAAAAAWWWWW!!"

[opihimoimoi]

9. What we see is a consequence of POOR VOTING, POOR CIVICS, and IGNORANCE

A Combo that leads to Poor Leadership Selection via the voting booth....

If enough voters go for the STOOPID candidate.....then ...guess what? a guy like Bush ends up making STOOPID decisions...some of which is counter to the very voters who supported W

The equation is confirmed....poor voting = poor selection = poor results = poorer Society = recession = poor paying jobs = Higher Misery Factor/Rate ..... despair

[L0oniX]

10. Voting is for suckers. Real change will only come from massive revolt in the streets...

...Howard Zinn style. What? Did you get equal rights by voting? Did you end the Vietnam war by voting? Did women get the right to vote by voting?

[opihimoimoi]

11. It comes down to Smart Voting........

[TheMadMonk]

37. It comes down to voting with your feet and your voice.

Not spending a begrudged afternoon every couple of years to punch a button or colour in a little box.

[cameozalaznick]

68. And voting with your money...

Honestly, if people hadn't been so interested in saving a nickel by going to Wal-Mart, they would not have urged their suppliers to move all the manufacturing jobs overseas and we wouldn't be facing 15% unemployment. This is where the race to the bottom has gotten us. And we're all complicit. Every time you feel the need to shop for the lowest price, you're contributing to the problem.

You cannot ship all your jobs overseas and then wonder where all your customers went. But until we all make a concerted effort to stop the madness, it will continue.

[appal_jack]

92. Wrong-o

I am not disputing the fact that personal choice maters, but instead I will argue with your assertion that, "if people hadn't been so interested in saving a nickel by going to Wal-Mart, they would not have urged their suppliers to move all the manufacturing jobs overseas and we wouldn't be facing 15% unemployment."

The drive to outsource began long before Wal Mart, though the bastard Waltons certainly accelerated and worsened the situation considerably. But the roots of the problems we now face lie in the Supreme Court decision of the 1890's that 'established' corporate personhood (via a clerk's notes... quite a powerful clerk there, or is it that his transcription fit the demands of capital nicely?). Capitalism was reigned in a bit under FDR and a few following presidents, but by the time Nixon was in office and the bills for Vietnam were coming due, it was again veering toward its worst excesses.

By the time Nixon closed the Gold Window in 1972, the writing was on the wall. The War Machine was demanding more money than we actually had, so we as a nation were moved to fiat currency and just printed more money. Union busting accelerated under Reagan, the corporatist elites of both parties supported NAFTA, GATT, and other globalist-corporate-power grabs (I will never forgive Clinton/Gore/Rahm Emmanuel/etc. for their roles in this). The situation has worsened steadily ever since the 1970's: falling purchasing power of regular citizens creates a need to shop for the lowest price. Meanwhile, corporations have taken over government, and the class war became explicit and constant in the pages of the New York Times and, later, the screens of Fox news.

Your desire to blame individuals in this much larger and systemic problem comes off as arrogant and elitist. The problems of outsourcing, job loss, and growing poverty are the result of concerted efforts by the elite: the same people who just granted themselves the hugest "bailout" (read: "theft") in history. Shopping at the local Mom-and-Pop store down the road instead of Wal Mart will certainly have a localized positive impact, but it will not convince the elite to change the system they have created, or give back the riches they have stolen. The solutions will instead have to be equally systemic, long-term, and earth-shaking as the problems. I only hope that we Americans can make things better via nonviolent direct action strategies: marches, boycotts, trade unionism, blogging, organizing, agitating, and the like. Otherwise, things will get considerably uglier.

-app

edit for spelling

[Greyhound]

100. Well said.

Unfortunately, while things may begin as non-violent they will not be allowed to remain so. We'll get the same game-plan they've always used with the latest bell & whistles.

They've been conditioning us and preparing for it for a long time.

[L0oniX]

109. we'll see how many here continue to be apologists for cops gone bad...

when they start shooting people.

[Wednesdays]

119. Are you kidding me? "They deserved to be shot...film at 11."

They've got all the bases covered...and The Good will never catch a break.

[cameozalaznick]

126. I agree with everything you said...

AND, you can still vote with your money. Seek out local sources where possible. Make your own, etc.

And if people would begin to demand that stores carry American-made products, and buy American-made even if it costs a little more, they would carry those products. Just because we're up against a big machine does not mean we throw in the towel.

You are voting every single time you spend money. Guess what, the oil companies figured this out. they raised the price of gas to see how far they could go before people just quit driving so much. They realized the threshold was about three bucks. Suddenly the price of gas quit going up. Funny how that happened.

[appal_jack]

129. Yes, true.

It's important to stand-up whenever, wherever, and however we can.

:hi:

-app

[fasttense]

142. Money, or spending it. is NOT a vote or freedom of speech.

This is what the greedy little CEOs, banksters and dancing supremes want you to believe. Because if you believe that spending money is voting, that spending money on campaign contributions is freedom of speech, if you believe that, than the more money you got to spend the more votes you get and the more freedom of speech you can buy.

That's not what our founding fathers fought and died for - So we could spend money. In the declaration of Independence it was clear that our founding fathers believed we had unalienable Rights. Rights that are given to us by our Creator, rights that can NOT be taken away or transformed into money. Even if you have not one single penny, you have these rights. They have NOTHING to do with spending money.

What is it that makes the rich so different from us? Nothing more than money. If they can convince you that the more money you have, the more freedom and votes you have, than you have lost the class war and all your unalienable Rights.

[cameozalaznick]

156. Dude, it's just an analogy.

Lighten up.

[Frank Cannon]

141. I'm fucking sick of the Wal-Mart shopper bashing

I shop at Wal-Mart because I am BROKE. I would love to support one of our smaller, more regional chains. I would shop there in a New York minute. But I honestly cannot afford enough healthy food there.

It sucks. I hate it. But that's the way it is. Don't blame me. Blame the goddam global fat-cat vampires who put us into this situation.

[appal_jack]

155. Yup, exactly.

I feel fortunate to be doing a little better than absolutely flat broke. In my case, I have to be careful what I spend, and still I might be two paychecks away from poverty and foreclosure at best. That's with no kids and few luxuries. Not a particularly comfortable situation for someone in his thirties, but is anyone other than the top elite really comfortable these days?

Regardless of where we each are at financially, the point of my post above is that collective and policy-oriented action is what has the potential to improve the jobs, manufacturing, and overall economic pictures for us Americans. Where one shops can bring a sense of self-satisfaction, and perhaps have a localized positive impact; but that's about the most one can hope for. A few people taking some buy-American pledge is not policy-oriented collective action in any sense of the phrase.

Given that both parties have been bought & paid for by the globalist-corporatists for at least the past 40 years, the best we can look forward to is a long struggle to correct matters. Meanwhile, we each gotta eat, put tires on our cars, etc. For the record, I am not a purist. I buy American when I can, but my latest pair of workboots are "Rocky," which like most, are made in China. I do darken the doors of Wal Mart now and then when they are the only place I can fill a need, or economic circumstances dictate, or whatever.

Individually, we do the best we can. No apologies necessary. And bashing individuals only serves to divide us, when more unity and concerted action is most needed.

-app

[Knight Hawk]

104. Too late?

A lot of people are now in a situation where they HAVE to shop at the cheapest places.Hell is finding out the truth too late...........

[florida08]

140. actually I agree with you

You can't swing a dead cat in my area without hitting a Walmart. There are 4 within a 10 mile radius in every direction where I am..and they're super Wal-Marts. One store actually moved a few miles further down to be by itself. It had been in a strip mall. It has hurt those stores by it's moving. It's not mom and pop stores that it hurts but stores like Ace Hardware, Publix, Winn Dixie and Target. Walgreens has also struggled to compete.

For the past 2 years now I have weaned myself from their crap (mostly China) and went back to shopping the way I use to. We had a Kohls move in which has helped. There use to be so many choices in shopping but not anymore. I now look to see what stores need to be patronize and go to them. The public can absolutely make a difference in their community which would extend nationwide if adopted.

HBO had a special on about the company and how it demands a subsidy when it moves in. Some even keep the taxes we pay on their merchandise instead of turning it over to the city. There's a documentary on them called "The high cost of low prices" which is an eye opener and should be viewed by everyone.

[L0oniX]

110. LOL ...what? ...you mean with hacked voting machines?

[MercutioATC]

14. Only when the electorate spends decades abdicating its responsibilities.

The power that allowed these poor decisions to become law and policy was not seized, it was voluntarily surrendered.

[opihimoimoi]

29. The effort to restore the power can be the voting booth...overwhelming mandate mode.

[L0oniX]

93. When did we get to vote on making it a crime for politicians to lie and turn their backs on us...

for money and power?

[MercutioATC]

154. We voted those who practice these deceptions into office.

...and refuse to vote them out, when we even bother to vote.

[omega minimo]

28. limp excuse to do nothing in the meantime. they're gonna shoot goo at you and split your eardrums

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT. Too little, too late.

[opihimoimoi]

32. Its NEVER TOO LATE.....Its all in a FLUX....Existing Forces are at odds...who will prevail

in the voting booths will dictate our course in the FUTURE....we need Mike Moore, Al Franken, etc to help with the effort

[omega minimo]

35. Got rights?

[L0oniX]

91. You are welcome to continue your illusion that voting will end the wars or get us health care ...

or stop the massive robbery of our money and destruction of the middle class ...etc.

[eridani]

118. Voting got us Medicare

And voting defunded the Vietnam war.

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[femrap]

42. Susan B. Anthony

did vote....of course, they put her in jail for doing so. And she died before seeing all her hard work come to fruition.

And now many women don't vote. Makes me sick.

[winston61]

96. That is how it is going to end, and sooner than you think

[Odin2005]

123. If voting changed anything they would make it illegal.

[laughingliberal]

13. And yet, I just had someone remark that MM should STFU or run for office

Apparently, we've lost the vision that there is a role for those who keep the public informed.

[opihimoimoi]

27. Social Change is sometimes slow in its beginnings...and/or...ala French Rev....torches and pitch

forks....

In our modern realm...such actions 200 years ago might well be out of the question...forces are in place to quell uprisings in the bud.

The Path to Improving our lives in general lies in the direction of smart voting....easier said than done.

[meeshrox]

73. Modern Realm...

or just lazy folks here in the US...look at the riots in Iran, France (hell anywhere in Europe for that matter)...people elsewhere take to the streets here in the modern realm...forces are in place in countries all over the globe, that doesn't stop citizens of other nations...

I vote, too. But, there is only so much that will accomplish...we NEED torches and pitchforks...no one where I live knows how to rally...when a group with signs does form, the local media stations point and laugh...I'm ready for revolution!

[LuckyLib]

97. Americans are too fat and happy. Make that unhappy.

It's too much work to read, study the issues, take a stand, and get out there and be visible. They know they're being screwed over, they just don't know how to go about changing that.

[opihimoimoi]

159. Yep...concur

[L0oniX]

111. That "someone" should take note of what other more respected brains have said:

“My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.” – G. K. Chesterton

Like that? There's a lot more:

Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy. - Henry Kissinger

Blind obedience to authority is the enemy of the truth. - Albert Einstein

That worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor . . . This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism–how passionately I hate them! – Albert Einstein

Never was a patriot yet, but was a fool. – John Dryden

A patriot is a fool in ev’ry age. – Alexander Pope.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. – Samuel Johnson

In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first. – Ambrose Bierce

Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen. – Ambrose Bierce

That pernicious sentiment, “Our country, right or wrong.” – James Russell Lowell

Patriotism which has the quality of intoxication is a danger not only to its native land but to the world, and “My country never wrong” is an even more dangerous maxim than “My country, right or wrong.” – Bertrand Russell

Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. – George Bernard Shaw

You’ll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it. – Denis Diderot

To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. – George Santayana

The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations. – H.G. Wells

Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. “Patriotism” is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one’s country which is not part of one’s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. – Erich Fromm

One of the great attractions of patriotism–it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat, Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. – Aldous Huxley

Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudice and “patriotism” . . . Extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots – Gordon Allport

It seems like the less a statesman amounts to, the more he loves the flag. – Elbert Hubband

Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy. – William Inge

Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism corrupts history. – Goethe

Into the cultural and technological system of the modern world, the patriotic spirit fits like dust in the eyes and sand in the bearings. Its net contribution to the outcome is obscuration, distrust, and retardation at every point where it touches the fortunes of modern mankind. – Thorstein Veblen

The standardization of mass-production carries with it a tendency to standardize a mass-mind, producing a willing conformity, not merely to common ways of living, but to common ways of thinking and common valuations. The worst defect of patriotism is its tendency to foster and impose this common mind, and so to stifle the innumerable germs of liberty. – J.A. Hobson

2. Patriotism and War:

At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot. – Jules Renard

No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism. – Preserved Smith

Naturally the common people don’t want war . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism. – Hermann Goering.


3. Patriotism and Religion:

Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched. – Guy de Maupassant

God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed. – Luis Buñuel

To be patriotic, hate all nations but your own; to be religious, all sects but your own; to be moral, all pretenses but your own. – Lionel Strachey

When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism! – David Starr Jordan

4. The American Syndrome:

If you have a weak candidate and a weak platform, wrap yourself up in the American flag and talk about the Constitution. – Matt Quay

How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be “American” before (or in contradistinction to) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the same intellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for our shortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism. – Edith Wharton

The 100 percent American is 99 percent an idiot. – George Bernard Shaw

Treason is in the air around us everywhere. It goes by the name of patriotism. – Thomas Corwin

5. Three relatively positive assessments of patriotism:

A patriot is somebody who protects his country from his government. Or better yet: who has the guts to protect his country from its government. – Piotyr Dirk

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. – George Washington

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. – Thomas Jefferson

[laughingliberal]

117. Those were great! Thanks! nt

[grahamhgreen]

127. BS - these are neo-con blame the victim talking points

[JVS]

82. Our, Kemosabe?

[HughBeaumont]

83. It's in quotes. Voices of the Banker Mafia talking.

I'd never victim-blame, trust me. I know EXACTLY whose feet this debacle lay at.

[samplegirl]

6. Surprised there were not

more replies to this thread. So much for thinking it will get better.

[laughingliberal]

7. Quite a few who are invested in believing everything will be just fine

now that the Democrats are in charge. Truthfully, I wish that were true. But every day the news brings more information about the selling out. Yesterday, it was Chris Dodd wanting the house the consumer protection agency within the Federal Reserve. I had hoped with his retirement he would find the courage to stand up to the PTB. But, it looks like he's working to keep his career options open.

[femrap]

43. After Clinton and his

republican lite policies, I watch the Dems closer than the repugnants. Betrayal is painful the first time...I somewhat expect it now.

Can you imagine the Fed watching out for Consumers???? That is just fucking funny. I'd rather laugh than cry.

TPTB will get theirs. Karma.

[L0oniX]

94. Yes we do have a "don't worry, be happy" flock here.

[kentuck]

8. I fear Michael may be right...

and the Republicans will be in charge again....with all their compassion and ideology.

[LoZoccolo]

12. "I'm the guy who..."

...said that if Connecticut doesn't recall Lieberman, people will boycott the state (how's that working out for you).

...said that the Democrats are next after Republicans lost House seats in 1998.

...endorsed Nader in 2000 and told people not to mention that he would be a spoiler.

...keeps trying these false-start rebellions against the Democrats when he thinks that everyone is mad at them, and then we really don't hear much about them afterward.

[laughingliberal]

15. Like I said, we're gonna need a bigger bus. nt

[LoZoccolo]

18. If someone like Krugman was saying this, I would listen.

Michael Moore, on the other hand, is not an economist, and is not consistent in his predictions (he only listed the ones that came out right, and the Iraq War stuff could be easily confirmed with much more reputable sources so it's not like he was really going out on a limb like he is here), and has been known to engage in hyperbole, even within his core competency of filmmaking.

[laughingliberal]

19. Hmmm

From my perspective, the CRE bubble is highly significant; it gives the lie both to those who blame Fannie/Freddie/Community Reinvestment for the housing bubble, and those who blame predatory lending. This was a broad-based bubble.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/cre-ative-destruction/

[laughingliberal]

23. :crickets: nt

[liberation]

60. Some people see reality as nothing but a minor bump in the construction of their own narrative...

... I am sure the previous poster will not let those words by Krugman face him, and will find another arbitrary position to move those goalposts.

[meeshrox]

74. +1

for the "move the goalposts" comment...great! :applause:

[kenfrequed]

144. Indeed

Well it is either goalpost moving or disdain for Michael Moore in general.

If I had to punch in the mouth every democrat that bitched about Moore I would be in a permanent cast, though probably a good deal happier.

[femrap]

44. Read this then.....

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/economists-warn-financial-us-economy/story?id=9990828&page=1

[girl gone mad]

115. What, Stiglitz + Galbraith + Roubini + Black + Johnson...

aren't good enough for you? It has to come from the guy who said oil wasn't in a speculative bubble in 2007/2008? The most confused Keynesian economist around?

[MercutioATC]

17. Moore is a self-aggrandizing tool, but even HE got this right.

More bad things a'coming.

[liberation]

59. Ah, American compassion at its finest. Where standing up for others makes you a tool...

... and then we wonder why this society is circling the drain of irrelevancy. LOL.

[liberation]

57. No, you are the guy who is trying to pass naked intellectual dishonesty...

... as facts in order to tile together a very specific narrative.

[kctim]

16. This is old news

why is he acting like HE was the one to figure it out?
Does he have a new movie coming out?

[laughingliberal]

20. The snip in the OP was his response to a question he was asked in an interview

Guess he could have just said 'my answer would be old news so, never mind.'

[HCE SuiGeneris]

62. !

Exactly. And, as it looms ever closer, it should be something that is addressed as a current issue.

[Dr.Phool]

47. Capitalism, a love story comes out on DVD next Tuesday.

He's probably getting a lot of interviews for that.

[Mira]

53. Do you think that is fair to MMoore?

He has uncovered many abuses and shined a light on them for us. He has allowed free downloads of the movie Sicko.
He has all the money he will ever need. He sold his house to make "Roger and Me".
I do not believe in his mind this is about "him".

[meeshrox]

75. It's not fair to MMoore...

He lives in Flint! He didn't abandon is old neighborhood when he started making all that money. He sees the degradation of neighborhoods everyday, to be sure! IMO, he seems like one of the few that live the way catholics espouse!

[Mira]

85. Thank you.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

21. He is right.

The business I work for deals specifically with landscaping/interiorscapes for commercial buildings and businesses, primarily in the banking and financial industries.

We were already feeling the coming hit 3 years ago -- when a company is struggling, the first thing they do to reduce costs is get rid of their landscaping/interior plant maintenance. We lost almost 25% of our business in the last three years. We are still losing clients weekly, and getting zero new clients. Downtown San Francisco is littered with commercial "for rent" signs and several of our biggest commercial buildings have gone into bankruptcy.

Yet San Francisco has remaned fairly unscathed in this crisis -- we are nowhere nearly as bad off as many other parts of the country.

I can tell you this mess is not over until we start seeing new clients come in -- the minute I start seeing us gaining a new client once a week, then I'll know we are out of the woods.

[laughingliberal]

22. Seems about right. Canaries in the mine shaft

My husband's business which he has operated since 1982 and which is largely dependent on the housing market (custom homes and high end remodels) started tanking about a year and a half before the housing market went down.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

24. "Canaries in the mine shaft."

That is it exactly. The "luxuries" are the first to go. A close friend of mine who does floral arrangements for businesses and corporate events has all but lost his business in the last few years -- cut flowers are a luxury that cannot be afforded by businesses right now. :(

Yeegads, any business tied to the housing market is just so fucked right now -- I am sorry for your husband. :(

[laughingliberal]

25. Thanks. We've been rendered poverty stricken by it

but are still sleeping indoors and eating on a regular basis. It's just a day to day existence, for now.

[femrap]

46. Thx for this

info. I lived in lovely SF for many years and remember the folks who would come in and tend to the office plants. I always thought that would be a great job....dealing with plants and not stupid people. LOL.

Sorry to hear about your biz though. SF should fare better than S. CA. But the poor state of CA is going bust.

What's the deal with Brown (who I loved) vs. the E-bay woman for Gov??? I hope Jerry wins....he has a heart and I believe actually cares about people. He's smart and creative. I want CA to thrive again.

[berni_mccoy]

26. Unrec, not because I disagree with Moore, but for what you have turned this thread into:

A general bashing of DU and contempt for the site. Perhaps if you had just posted the article and let people read it without bashing the site, you might have made your point more effectively.

[omega minimo]

30. Thank GAWD for UnRec for Sanctimonious Pisses to be taken on Double Plus Bad posts!!!!

:applause::applause:

[laughingliberal]

34. Thanks for the kick! nt

[Spike from MN]

45. Well, just for that, I gave it a rec. n/t

[Echo In Light]

71. lol...to be honest, if I see a thread littered w/certain naysayers' posts it's usually ....

... a strong indicator that the OP's content or sourced material is spot on.

In other words, if________ is against it, I'm likely for it

[Spike from MN]

145. I know what you mean.

You can probably even skip reading the OP and just skim through the replies to get an idea of the validity of the OP. The more accurate the OP, the more vitriolic the responses.

[Echo In Light]

148. Quite often, yes

:thumbsup: :hi:

[dixiegrrrrl]

84. Me too!

:evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[Spike from MN]

146. LOL! GMTA. ;) n/t

[earth mom]

56. You need to wake up and stop living in denial.

:crazy:

[mod mom]

64. rec'd.

chill out.

[inna]

72. what are you even babbling about?

"A general bashing of DU and contempt for the site." -- WTF?? :wtf: -- Do you have reading comprehension problems? Where in the world, based on what comments, did you get that?

On edit: K&R for the OP

[liberation]

86. ... and yet.

[flyarm]

132. Just for that I will give a Rec!! Thanks for bringing your unrec to my attention and the nasty

remarks..only made my rec feel better!

That makes 191 rec's..pretty popular thread i would say!

[QC]

134. There is no greater honor in this community than your disapproval.

Proud to rec this excellent thread.

[arcadian]

157. Hey BM, I just recced it!

:hi:

[omega minimo]

31. KRECCED

:kick:

[Lorien]

33. +1. nt

[blindpig]

36. The only readiness to be had is solidarity.

Let's get it together.

[habitual]

38. not disagreeing but simply noting that

I have long thought that you always get to see the best parts of a movie when you watch the coming attraction trailer for it... most of the time the actual movie is just crappy fillers between the good scenes which are always shown in the trailer... just an observation.

[meeshrox]

121. Sure, maybe films like Avatar are easy to "get" from the trailer...

but, documentaries have interviews, etc. that should, IMO, listened to...before deciding it's crap!

[marmar]

39. Michael Moore, caught in the act of telling the truth yet again.....

...... maybe one day this braindead nation will listen.

[waiting for hope]

40. K&R - for content.

The day they bailed out Wall Street was the beginning .. I still can't believe those crooks got away with it.

[femrap]

41. We're burnt toast....

Michael is right.

Prepare as if an earthquake is coming....and in some areas of the country, there probably will be one.

Stock up. WASF.

[Vidar]

48. K&R.

[WeDidIt]

49. Brilliant Economist Michael Moore says

oh wait. Moore isn't an economist. He's a guy who got rich making documentary movies and who happens to have a documentary about the economy coming out on DVD soon.

Fuck Michael Moore. He's just a money grubbing alarmist piece of shit.

[Selatius]

52. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Seriously, without fundamental financial regulations put into place to deal with these complex derivatives and regulations over hedge funds, we're simply setting ourselves up for another big collapse. I doubt the bankers who run the White House economic team see it that way, though.

[Fire1]

58. Ditto. n/t

[liberation]

61. Obama is not an economist, and neither is Tim Geithner... sooo according to your POV

neither should we pay any attention about what they have to say about the economy, right?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

63. Your little spew is unbecoming.

Do you think that you are shedding light with your vituperative volley?

[jgraz]

66. Oh c'mon. Rahm has to let off steam somehow.

If we don't put up with his "little spew", he'll probably declare war on Vermont or something.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

114. Weededit & Rahm are most definitely on a par with each other..

each being held in equal "esteem".

[Electric Monk]

80. See post #71

k&r

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmonk]

116. As someone who studied economics and government at the

post secondary level, they haven't put in the regulatory regimen to fix this long term.

[WeDidIt]

149. You left out a word

"yet"

[Juche]

54. There may be another housing crash in 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kunB4SnAh4g

We can't repay our public or private debt. No new jobs have been created.

Its going to be bad.

[onenote]

90. I'll go out on the same limb. There may not be another housing crash in 2010

I think our statements pretty much say the same thing yet yours sounds so much scarier.

[Juche]

107. Did someone find a way to prevent all those mortgages from resetting?

There are millions of mortgages set to reset their rates and go much higher. So unless a way to prevent that from happening has been found, I don't know about it.

[earth mom]

55. Totally agree with Moore, but he needs to put Obama front and center of this mess,

because it's Obama's mess now and he's NOT cleaning it up.

Moore needs to get honest about Obama but he has been totally skirting the issue which makes me question Moores honesty right now. And I say that as a huge Moore fan.

C'mon Mike, stop living in denial about Obama!

[pjt7]

67. Moore's kid-gloves approach to Obama

has been sickening.

[liberation]

88. I honestly think he sees it as "better the devil you know..."

Obama and his administration, as flawed as they are, are still orders of magnitude better than the GOP alternative. So I assume he is taking the approach of trying to exercise some pressure on the Dems to do the right thing.

The vitriol he has gotten from the Obama loyalist, and how quickly he was thrown under the bus the minute he said something remotely uncomfortable regarding the actions of the Obama admin... leads me to believe it is probably a fool's errand at this point. But I can't honestly say I can blame him from taking a level headed approach to try to effect actual change.

[blindpig]

76. It ain't just him...

it's the whole rotten dog and pony show, an ever more threadbare facade for the rule of the capitalists.

I think that Moore knows this and that he holds back, were he to blurt out the damning truth at this time he would alienate an audience which he can still inform about lesser evils. Soon I fear that the truth will be so in our face that only the most obdurate would need be told.

[slipslidingaway]

69. Same warnings were given by some back in 2000 after the market...

began to fall... if this is propped up the next crash will be worse and it was for many people.

[jpljr77]

70. He's right about commercial real estate, wrong about credit cards.

And really, he's only half right about commercial real estate. The bubble has burst in that market. It's just that the fallout hasn't been as contagious because businesses and investors can absorb losses much easier than individual homeowners. But defaults will pick up and prices will fall, which will drag down a large sector in the economy, leading to additional trouble.

On credit cards, well he doesn't really say anything there, does he? "The credit card debt is so huge right now, it will never be repaid. That's a house of cards waiting to fall." That's all he says.

Well, he's wrong. The consumer credit card market has been correcting for the past 18 months. In fact, it's a little bit of a minor miracle. Employed, economically healthy consumers (which are still the majority in this country, remember) are spending less on their credit cards. This is great. In the meantime, banks have been charging off the old bad debt like crazy. The end result is a historic correction in the consumer credit card sector.

According to the Fed's monthly http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/g19/Current/">consumer credit report (called G.19), total consumer credit card debt outstanding at the end of December was $866 billion. Now, that's a lot. But consider that at the end of September 2008, credit card debt outstanding peaked at $975.1 billion. We've shed a lot of credit card debt in a short amount of time. And with the new CARD rules in place, the market will continue to correct and the sector will be less predatory going forward.

No house of cards collapse. Instead, incremental improvement due to:

1. Strong legislation aimed at protecting consumers
2. Prudent consumers that realized credit card debt was for suckers
3. Wise policies on the part of credit-granting A/R managers (after the fact, of course, and only on the consumer credit card side)

[meeshrox]

77. "Strong legislation aimed at protecting consumers"

Yes, but the cc companies had a 9-month head-start...

[leftstreet]

120. Is it really about 'prudent' consumers? Available credit is being smashed

You make some good points, but I don't think consumers are being prudent in their charging as much as they're unable to charge. Story after story has circulated about banks reducing and/or eliminating current available credit to consumers.

[jpljr77]

139. The extension of credit has been reined in, yes.

But, in my opinion, this is a good thing; credit limits were the rope the banks were giving us to hang ourselves. Is it good for a person that had a $25,000 limit, lost their job, and now had seen their limit reduced to $5,000? Obviously not. But is a person that had a $25,000 limit on their credit card in the first place more likely to successfully manage this downturn? Every situation is different, but on aggregate, that person will probably be OK.

In our economy, it's important to have access to credit, if for nothing more than emergencies. And I know that many poor and minority consumers will be shut out of the credit market because of the banks' actions in the future: they will be aggressively douchey when granting credit for a while, and they'll probably need to be slapped again down the road. But we desperately needed to move away from credit cards -- we were too dependent on them. The government actually stepped in with the right legislation at the exact right time, which is so rare. Sure, the banks had a head start. But those few months will be a blip on the radar screen of the better years ahead.

[fan of the arts]

78. No, most people still are completely suckered by the market propaganda

I too, still hold out hope that real companies that do real things that help people and provide actual services will be able to raise capital in order to survive but, it'll most likely be venture capital from here on out as the stock market idea of issuing stock and going public is now a complete corrupt joke.

[RainDog]

79. States have to balance budgets

and this is resulting in massive layoffs of people in education, for instance, and budget freezes, no cost of living increases for those who have jobs.

think of all the jobs that are part of the public sector.

think of the effect on the economy of all those who lose jobs.

yeah, without a commercial real estate crash, I see big problems.

[heliarc]

81. My financial adviser says the same thing. nt

[onenote]

89. does he say when its going to happen?

[heliarc]

130. He does not...

But the key thing to understand is that Banks are playing a waiting game with the revelation of all of their liability. They have way more toxic asset than they have reported at this point in the housing market. Which is to say that they are only putting a fraction of the property that has been forclosed back on the market. That makes the housing market appear like it's doing better than it is... Less houses on the market. Higher property values...

The recent gains in the stock market are unsupported by gains in the housing markets, job markets, and adjustments in commodities... so he believes that the optimism won't persist, and the banks will be forced to reveal their shit assets in another grand bowel movement similar to the last one.

So we have been advised to continue holding more bonds than equities... The equities are good to grab up when the thing falls apart again, but bonds are going to remain more stable through another crash. You can also find a fund manager who bets against the market to diversify your portfolio and pad your fall.

And I say all of this with my loose understanding of these things. Thankfully, our advisor sounded the alarm about this and we had the same question "when" He said that you can choose to speculate about when at your own peril, but the economic environment right now is something few know what to do with... When is a shot in the dark, but it is known that there will be another deep adjustment (crash) in the near future.

[DeschutesRiver]

95. Your financial advisor is right. And it isn't going to be even remotely pretty

esp. since so many people are wishing to believe that this is all some temporary inconvenience that will be resolving itself shortly.

It isn't. Michael Moore is also right on this one, and I am surprised to hear it from him.

[heliarc]

131. Why are you surprised to hear it from Moore? nt

[DeschutesRiver]

153. I am typically hearing this from very few people, usually on my

financial forums, the rare economists that realize where we are at right now, and the like. I am used to Michael Moore drilling in depth and focusing on a social issue, as I've seen him do in the past, using personal stories to illustrate what is wrong about it and how to fix the issue.

Here, he is straight out getting to the nut of this financial mess and laying out the same scenerio that my financial guys are, just in the most simple terms, with an awful but accurate conclusion, and no solution (because there isn't a solution). I guess what surprises me is that in delivering this assessment, I can tell that he isn't asking for change, or laying out a solution. He is just confirming that shit is about to hit the fan and we are in deep trouble. No hope. It just confirms for me that I am not the only one who doesn't see a happy ending, but it doesn't console me about what is coming.

I think Moore is a smart guy who just laid it out on the table, and maybe I wish he saw something fixable in this mess that I'd missed.

[sendero]

98. Of course he is right..

... but there are still folks that just don't get it.

There is no recovery. There is not going to BE a recovery anytime soon (within the next several years).

[Cowpunk]

99. My prediction: If we stay the course, M.M. will run for president.

Mike's got the ego, he's got the fan base, and he's got the money, and boy will he be pissed if what he said comes to pass.

The Democrats clearly didn't learn much from the Nader and Dean insurgencies, so we may be in for more. Or Moore, that is.

[thegreekgeek]

101. Don't You Think...

...that if by some miracle that were to come to pass, that he, too, might somehow sell us out? Sorry for such cynicism, but if recent history has taught me anything, it's that everyone and anyone can be bought.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

102. all part of the Leo Strauss and PNAC"S plan to kill the New Deal..The Final Solution

[Major Hogwash]

103. Oh yeah, the fat ignorant tub of goo who supported Nader in 2000 and said ...

there's no difference in Gore and Bush.

A millionaire who lives in New York, and still tries to act like he is just "one of the regular people".

Yeah sure, that's who I will get my advice from.

[pundaint]

106. And we'll avoid hogwash, if we're smart.

[blue_onyx]

108. He lives in Traverse City, MI

You might want to get your facts straight before criticizing him.

[pundaint]

105. With the run on guns and ammo last year, I fear some of us are too ready.

[supernova]

112. MM isn't that prescient

There was talk early on that this might be a double dip recession. That idea hasn't been out there lately, but I remember them talking about it for just the reasons MM states. So, he's not wrong.

[heliarc]

133. Tell me then ...

Why does my financial adviser say the same thing Moore does... And he backs it up with real reasoning that leads back to the banks withholding toxic assets and foreclosure notices to game the fall...

We are being advised to put 80 percent of our holdings in bonds... that is extreme advice from people who normally think you should be aggressively acquiring managed equity funds at my age of 34...

[sendero]

151. Any person.

.... with an IQ of 95 or greater that looks at the FACTs would conclude that we are headed for much more hardship.

Back in 2005-2006, this was a prescient call, now IT'S JUST PLAIN OBVIOUS.

[girl gone mad]

113. Just a worthless gloom and doomer..

why can't he see all the beautiful green shoots everywhere?

:sarcasm:

[Odin2005]

122. MM is right, as usual.

And the "Experts" will be scratching their heads going "nobody could have foreseen..." again, as usual.

[breadandwine]

124. Michale Moore said it. Democrats are WIMPS.

They're wimps.

Did I mention that Democrats are wimps?

They're:

WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS!

Did I neglect to mention that Democrats are wimps?

They're :

WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS! WIMPS!



The problem is the WIMP FACTOR.

[amborin]

125. Michael Moore sees through the sham "reform,"

too, which leaves huge loopholes for the same kind of shadow banking that led to this current bust

i'm remembering something else, too.

when Obama had dissed unionized workers to some audience in San Francisco, and called them "bitter," etc...Michael Moore subsequently came to Obama's defense. Moore said something along the lines of, "well, yeah, we are all bitter, after Bush," or some such.

Little did we all know that those remarks to the audience in SF were Obama's true sentiments.

[denimgirly]

128. A 2nd crash is NEEDED -- It is ONLY then that REAL REFORM will Come...Can't Wait!

It's sad to say but i am looking forward to the 2nd crash because it is only then that real reform will finally come....not sure who will be the lucky president who will have to finally man up and do the work but i am hoping its a democratic president since republicans tend to go glazzy eyed when its about the economy.

Friggin, finally do financial reform, raise taxes on everyone especially the rich (which should be much higher) and stop dicking around.

[troubledamerican]

137. Conventional wisdom will be that Democrats were responsible. Not cool.

[defendandprotect]

135. Many of us knew, Michael . . . and obviously without Re-regulation of capitalism . . .

stopping the banking schemes -- derivatives, etal --

Reinstating Glass-Steagall, yeah, capitalism/corporatism will take us under with them --

Patriarchy, organized patriarchal religion and their system of capitalism are suicidal --

What's new?

And, looks like Hillary is pushing for some new war profits in an attack on Iran???

Two wars at one time aren't really enough for those who profit from mayhem and murder!!

Haven't seen your movie yet cause it moved thru our towns here like lightening --

when is the DVD going to be released?



Love ya --

[SlingBlade]

136. And ANOTHER Warning ... Think we'll listen this time ?

The boy's are still in place, Just waiting to pull the trigger



PBS Frontline The Warning
Amidst the 1990s' bullmarket, there was one lone regulator who warned about derivatives' dangers -- and suddenly became the enemy of some of the most powerful people in Washington...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/

We've Been Had ..... AGAIN !


Yea, Right !

[leveymg]

138. Don't worry, be happy! Our friends the Saudis and the Chinese will bail us out.

Not.

But, they will be bidding at the fire sale that follows. Lots of bargains. Buy low.

[dkf]

147. Obama can't say he wasn't warned. This has always been the fear yet we are stuck on hcr

This next crash will be all Obama.

[lonestarnot]

158. Toast.