I was put in the back of a police car and humiliated for walking down the road

[Clintonista2]

So I'm not usually one to complain about the police, but I've just experienced firsthand what many on DU have attested to.

I finished work at 10:30 PM and took my usual bus home. I have to get off and transfer busses at one point, however, tonight I was distracted texting my friend and missed my stop. I realized my mistake about 2 minutes later and rang the bell to get off. The bus travelled about 1 mile down a deserted road with no lights, trees on both sides, etc before stopping at the next stop. So I get off and start walking the 1m back.

At this point, I notice flashing lights and a siren beeps, as a police car pulls up beside me. An officer gets out, and his very first sentence is "hello sir do you have any weapons on you?" I'm 22 years old, have never dealt with the police in my life, and all that was going through my mind at this point were the various DU videos I've watched of police tasering/assaulting people for no reason, so I'm scared shitless. I tell him no, and then he asks me to spread my arms and legs out so he can frisk me. After determining that I have no weapons on me, he asks to see my ID, and I give him my student card. He asks for my address and birthday, and then talks in his radio to get a check on my info, while asking me if I've ever been convicted of a criminal charge, which I haven't.

So he asks me to get get in the back of his car, and then shuts the door and stands outside of the car talking in his radio and reading my ID. Once he determines that I have no criminal history he drives me back to the bus station. On the way, he lets me know that he's only letting me off with "a warning"... "this time." Apparently the road I was walking on was for "buses only" (even though it had a sidewalk with a curb), and somehow I was supposed to know that. He then stops the car right in front of the bus stop, where a crowd of people are watching, and comes around to let me out. I had to wait with those people for 20 minutes afterwards while waiting for the bus... it was the 20 most humiliating minutes of my life.

Anyways, that was my day DU, how was yours?

[EFerrari]

1. That's effing frightful. Are you all right?

:hug:

[Clintonista2]

4. yes actually, it actually made me feel better when I phoned my best friend afterwards

shaking and almost in tears to tell him what happened... and his response was to burst out laughing LOL.

[EFerrari]

12. At least you were only walking. Thank gawd you weren't jogging

or skipping or walking a dog. You'd be looking at bail right now!. :wtf:

[jody]

231. Your friend probably laughed with joyous relief because the only thing that mattered was you were OK

That was my reaction after each of my children called to tell me about their first automobile accident, one ran into an ambulance.

They knew that my laughter was with relief that they were OK, nothing else mattered.

Thanks for your personal story. :hi:

[Cerridwen]

2. First - you have my sympathy.

Second - well, hell, there is no second. I'm sitting over here wondering WTF and banging my head on my desk.

:hug: for you

and :wtf: for the cop.

[handmade34]

3. hope tomorrow is better

glad you're safe and sorry you had to go through that

[gateley]

5. The other day I was put in the back of a police car, handcuffed (after being

frisked) for driving with a suspended license! I'm 56 years old, have white hair, and didn't even know about the suspension. Like you, this took place in front of several people and I FELT like a criminal!

:hug:

[vadawg]

30. technically you are a criminal, you were driving on a suspended licence

not sure what you expect the cop to do with you, he cant exactly tell you to pop around the back of the nearest building and he will arrest you there..

[gateley]

51. You know, I was just relating my experience, that's all. I wasn't criticizing the

cop, SHE did her job, and I of course technically realize I was breaking the law even though I was unaware of it until that time. And I felt like a chronic law-breaking criminal.
And, since I went to court and it was dismissed, am I still technically a criminal? You seem to know the law, so enlighten me.

[vadawg]

63. well you did say you felt like a criminal so i told you that at that moment you were a criminal

yup she did her job, and as they say its still illegal even if you dont know its illegal, but when people dont know they have dome something wrong is when i tend to cut them a break, as ive said many times especially with trffic tickets id much rather give the lecture than write the ticket..

[gateley]

67. Oh -- I didn't know you were a police officer. Just thought you were some

know-it-all getting in my face. She was really nice, and you could tell she didn't like doing it, and she even called me a cab. :7

Anyway, sorry I was snarky.

[vadawg]

69. no problem, i just try to explain these situations from the side of the popo

so people can see the situation as we see it and why we do certain things certain ways, sorry if i came across badly as well...

[Name removed]

81. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asdjrocky]

148. People haven't used the word popo since like '86.

If you say that on the street people will laugh behind your back.

[dionysus]

186. well aren't you the arbiter of what's cool.

:rofl:
i'm sure you prefer the term 'pigs'

[asdjrocky]

191. Pigs. Cops. The 99%, they all work for me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

216. Kids at my school call them popo

[bertman]

289. Rocky, your hood was waaayy ahead of the times. Around here the young and cool refer

to the boys and girls in blue as the popo. I had no idea what they were talking about until it popped up in a conversation and I got it from the context. Some of us just live in the backwoods. Hell, I just found out what "bling" is.

:blush:

[Shell Beau]

307. Not true for my area. It is still used.

[pitohui]

368. yeah it's still used around here, just heard it the other day

i always think it's silly when adults use baby talk, and popo (is that even spelled right?) sounds like baby talk to me but whatev

:-)

[stevenleser]

316. We're going to call that person a criminal? Not sure if I would go nearly that far.

I realize as a police officer you have to treat every infraction of the law as serious, but I wouldn't go so far as to call someone who is driving with expired tags a "criminal".

Someone who burglarizes houses? Yep, that's a criminal. Robs people or businesses? Criminal. Someone who commits violent crimes? Yep, that's a criminal. Moving violations? Not so much. Not even when the person is in the midst of the act. Not until you get up to reckless driving or DUI in my humble opinion.

A person who is driving expired tags may simply be short of funds at the moment to resolve the situation. But because most of our country has inadequate mass transit, most folks need a car to make a living.

The whole idea of having to register a car and having to have a license to drive is a bit big brotherish. Come to think of it, many if not most driving laws and regulations are a bit big brotherish. Germany even manages to survive with lanes on its major highways that have no speed limits for cars.

[Silent3]

162. Not everything against the law is a *crime* per se

I'm not sure how driving on a suspended license is classified, but that seems more like a misdemeanor to me. To be a criminal, you have to commit a crime.

I don't think there's such a word as "misdemeaninal", however. :)

[Jackpine Radical]

303. I think the proper term is "misdemeanant"

as opposed to "felon."

Kinda like the difference between venal & mortal sins.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

310. Misdemeanors are usually defined in a criminal statute

So someone who commits a misdemeanor could technically be considered a criminal, although to me a criminal is usually someone who I think of as a "bad guy". Driving while suspended, IMO, doesn't fit that category. :)

Infractions (like speeding) are usually defined in a civil statute (at least in the state laws with which I'm familiar - I'm not an attorney), and that's why you can't request a jury trial on things like that.

[sabrina 1]

257. Maybe the cop could have done what we do with war criminals

in this country. Just 'move on' to 'something more important', like maybe a mugging or something. I have been stopped for things like expired reg. in the past and the cop just told me to 'bring it up to date'. Depends on the priorities we have in this country, I guess. We panic over a suspended license, but ignore torture criminals. I have no sympathy for those who 'enforce' these petty laws rather than make a stand and state that as long as major crimes are ignored, so will petty violations. But the U.S. is filled with people who are afraid to rick the boat and as a result nothing changes and major crime continues unchallenged.

[cherokeeprogressive]

59. You didn't know about the suspension? How is that possible? In California, the state notifies you

when they're suspending your license. Do they not do that in your state? Why was your license suspended and why didn't you know about it?

I'm sorry, but I just find that odd.

[gateley]

86. I was pulled over for expired tabs. I showed the cop

the carbon of my check for the tabs dated several weeks earlier, and promised I'd sent in for them. He said okay, (really small town in NC), handed me a warning (I thought) and said "I'm not supposed to let you drive this vehicle, but as soon as I drive off, I won't know if you drive it or not." Essentially telling me to go get my tabs!

They were in my stacks of mail at home, I put them on, and didn't give it another thought.

I drove that car for TWO YEARS and never was pulled over, never had a clue.

Then I arrive in Washington State, drive my brother's car, and get pulled over for, ironically, expired tabs. I wasn't surprised as it's his "dog car" -- just the car they have to take their dog to the park, vet, etc. I WAS surprised when she ran my license and it came back that it was suspended.

So let me see if I've answered all your questions.

1). No, I didn't know my license was suspended.
2) No, they didn't notify me to my knowledge -- obviously. If they had, I'd have known, wouldn't I? I don't know what the state does because I'd never had a license suspended previously.
3) I believe I've answered your question to why my license was suspended and why I didn't know about it.

The judge understood and believed me when I explained the situation to her, and dismissed the charges as I'd contacted NC DMV and had my license reinstated, and my brother put the tabs on his car.

And I'm sorry, but I find your questioning my honesty or truthfulness offensive. Why would I lie about something like that?

[vadawg]

90. yup you did the right thing you went to court and you won, its pretty common for people to have sus

suspended and not know about it,

[gateley]

93. Well, that makes me feel a little better. I had no idea and I'd been driving on it

for two years! But I guess I wouldn't know unless I'd gotten pulled over.

Glad it's all reconciled now -- and I'm LEGAL! :hi:

[vadawg]

101. i got a confession, i too had an expired licence pull, but it was a mistake when i moved states

they messed something up, was really funny though as i was in uniform on my way to work when it happened, they (state trooper) ran my tags and got a hit, i just got my buddy to come get my car and had it sorted within a couple of hours, so i understand stuff happens to people.

[gateley]

110. Ha! That's funny! nt

[vadawg]

113. hey 99% of the people cops deal with have just made a mistake

everyone makes mistakes in life, now the majority of what i deal with are nothing but the refuse of the world, but that was my decision..

[Leftist Agitator]

115. The people that you deal with aren't necessarily "the refuse of the world"...

They're PEOPLE. People who have made some serious mistakes along the way, who might think of nobody but themselves in most instances, but they're still people.

Maybe you should think of them as such.

[vadawg]

119. nope the people i deal with mainly are the refuse of the world, they dont see themselves as people

in the same way you do, they see themselves as predators and you are the prey, hence the ease with which they kill and maim each other and innocent people..

[Leftist Agitator]

130. Nonetheless, they're still people.

Like it or not, they're as human as you or I.

Terrible people? Yeah, probably. But they STILL ARE PEOPLE.

They aren't the subhumans that you seem to think that they are...

[vadawg]

132. yup they are people but they are still refuse whether you like it or not

and unfortunately for me i have to make nice to the biggest pieces of detriment in the world... consider yourself lucky that you can think of them as people rather than you having bebn a victim of them...

[Leftist Agitator]

134. Victim? Shit. I have a ccw and one of these:

Of course, mine has red nail polish in the grooves that say "Kel-Tec" underneath the slide, but I digress... Are you going to address my PM?

[vadawg]

137. done, but i carry a lot more fire power than you and one day it will still not be enough..

[deaniac21]

183. This is what I carry but not concealed......

[Leftist Agitator]

185. The underslung shotgun is a nice touch.

But you get better accuracy and terminal energy out of a long barrel instead of a carbine.

I like the multi-pos stock, by the way.

[deaniac21]

222. I was comparing to the Kel Tec popgun

[liberation]

271. It all comes down to "size" issues, doesn't it?

LOL

[mstinamotorcity]

328. Well now that they are showing you

their hardware and these are law abiding citizens I know what law enforcement is talking about especially when these type of weapons are in the wrong hands. And who determines what hands are wrong and what hands are right. because one of these law abiding citizens could honestly be defending themselves and one of their stray bullets can affect someone innocent. Now what do you say to them or their family oops my bad. Stay safe out there and keep your head down.You have an important and dangerous job,I know sometimes you must make judgment calls but now that we are suffering post Bush don't forget that people are people and missed meal cramps and hungry crying children can make people do strange things. And incidentally, when law enforcement is cruising through the neighborhoods they know what areas need assistance in them.Maybe they should help by submitting areas to community organizations to get help in those areas so that their crime rates can come down.And it would probably make for a better relationship between law enforcement and the citizens.Most of the time when law enforcement is seen its going upside somebody's head or with tasering eighty year old grandmothers.Which causes and inherent dislike for law enforcement,that is until the drunk uncle comes and starts the fight,then you are their friend.:hi: :fistbump:

[inna]

298. what are even talking about? it sounds very creepy, and i've not even a slightest idea

what you're talking about.


got my curiosity, though.

[NoSheep]

265. I'm always amazed at the unwillingness of others to take my word for it here.

Those that constantly do this...I wonder if they would turn up the juice on me if asked to by an authority...remember those experiments?

[liberation]

273. Oh, I am sure a lot of people (here and elsewhere really) would turn up the juice all the way to 11

a lot of them would do so ever so happily without being asked even.

Those who still like to mentally masturbate that we do not live in a "police state" are welcome to carry out a few experiments to prove me wrong: Walk on the street alone at 3 AM, smoking some substance not in the "allowed list" while carrying a placard which reads "screw the police, and come join the Communist party."


A society in which only those with deep pockets to fight the case can have freedom of expression, where you can be told when and where you can walk on public land, and where you are being told what you are allowed to put in and do with your body.... such a society is many things, but "free" ain't one of them.

Ironic that in the USA (and many other societies) we at a very basic level pay taxes with only regulation of behavior as the only discernible returns for our money. In other words people in many "civilized" societies are paying money for the privilege of being somewhat repressed.


And yes, I do understand there are statues of limitation in people's rights, I understand that there has to be a system to defend people's rights from being affected by other people exercising their rights too. And in a social environment, one has to take the "social" aspect in consideration (i.e. there are other people around you). But that is exactly why I picked the example I did: walking alone silently on the street in the wee hours of the morning, does not interfere with anyone else's rights or comfort... but it displays that at a very basic level, power structures use the social norms as merely a pretext to induce their real goals: total control of others.


Most cops at a very basic level, are the spearhead among the most indoctrinated in any given population. And there is no coincidence that none associates intellectualism and mental prowess with law enforcement work. And yes, I know about generalizations and all that jazz.

[NoSheep]

278. right on.

[SouthernLiberal]

284. Maybe his state is like New Jersey

Quite frequently in New Jersey, the DMV will send a suspension notice to an old address, even when the new, correct address appears on the license.

[ima_sinnic]

325. my license was suspended for 34 years yrs & I didn't know

yes, in Vt. in 1973 I bought an old clunker of a car and did not pay the sales tax. At that time, they allowed people to pay the tax later. They sent a bill for the tax in the mail, I suppose.
I was a young hippie-type person then and had bought the car just as a way to take a trip to an event in NY State--it was a 1963 Ford Falcon station wagon that soon afterward could barely be driven to the junkyard. I lived in Vermont for only a little while at that time.

In 2007 I went into a Maine DMV office to switch my Florida drivers license to a Maine one. The woman looked up my name on the computer and said my license was suspended in Vermont and I'd have to get it taken care of first. I was floored because it had been so long since I'd been in that state, and I'd been there so briefly, it was almost as if I'd never been there. I had no memory at all of that sales tax thing.

I called the number she gave me and was told about the sales tax from 1973--a $60 bill for a car that had cost $50 at the time--must have had fees added to it or something. I paid the bill and everything was cool after that.

Over the years I'd gotten licenses, and renewed licenses, in various states, but it has been only within the last few years that the database of licenses across states has been so thoroughly connected.

[pitohui]

369. how do they notify you? send a letter to an address you lived in 1987?

i've gotten such "notices" for people i never heard of, of course i'm not in a big rich state like california, and i'm sure they go to a lot of trouble there to make sure the actual right person is notified...

one of my friends has a very common name and he was constantly getting arrested because of another guy who had a suspended license w. the same name

i just don't think that mix-ups are uncommon or odd

[WheelWalker]

226. Yikes!

[tularetom]

6. Not trying to be nosy

Are you African American?

[Clintonista2]

11. no, white

[Carni]

209. Being nosier still...

Is the neighborhood/ area where you were walking a bad one? Won't ask your gender...but if the area is not a good one
maybe the bonehead thought he was doing you a favor by getting you off the deserted street.

With that said (and that's a no excuse for apprehending and freaking someone out who is doing nothing wrong)he certainly could have conducted himself in a more polite and professional way, without acting like you were a criminal.

That sucks! :(

[CoffeeCat]

7. Holy crickey!!

That totally sucks! I want to buy you a drink or something...you deserve to be
relaxing and exhaling right now, and cracking a few jokes at this overzealous cop's
expense. You did nothing wrong! And how in the world can it be illegal to walk
on a sidewalk??? I must be missing something. You weren't walking in the road.
I'm sure you were scared. I've seen those same DU videos of innocent people being
tazed and roughed up.

I'm so sorry this happened.

He should have given you a ride home. He was a jerk!

[Art_from_Ark]

8. That's really screwed up

Unless it's an expressway, you should have the right to walk along any public road, especially on a sidewalk!

That reminds me of the time some cop stopped me in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and told me I couldn't ride my bicycle on the city streets! And I was riding in a freaking bicycle lane at the time!

[CoffeeCat]

13. And you don't dare point out the obvious and say..

..."but I was riding my bicycle in the bicycle lane."

Cuz we all know that's how you get tazed!

[Art_from_Ark]

31. I think it might have had something to do with being young

and having slightly long hair.

At any rate, I DID want to point out the obvious about the bicycle lane, but thought I'd better just hold my tongue and get the hell out of Dodge.

[RainDog]

9. omg. n/t

[JackintheGreen]

10. That is horrible, an egregious abuse of his power,

and it sounds like a bored cop looking for kicks but:

You got out of the back of police car in front of a crowd of people at a bus stop. Back of the car means criminal, but getting let out means that HE was wrong. You're looking at it the wrong way. You had a cop chauffeur your bad ass to the bus stop, man! You shoulda been strutting something fierce!

[EFerrari]

14. Right on.

[Go2Peace]

15. Why didn't he just drop you off at your stop

[Clintonista2]

26. He did drop me off at my stop

there was a crowd there waiting for the same bus I was.

[KansDem]

232. You could get out of the car while saying in a loud voice...

"Thank you, officer, for the convenience of your conveyance. I shall remember to mention your courtesy to the mayor during our next golf engagement."

:rofl:

[nilram]

306. I was thinking s/he could say, loudly, "Thanks, Dad!" -nt

[Hannah Bell]

16. If there was a sidewalk, I'd try to confirm that you violated some reg by walking there. Sounds

dubious to me.

And if it turns out the cop was just covering his stupid mistake, I'd send a polite, nicely worded letter to his superior. Don't call for the cop's head: just inform his boss of the officer's mistake & ask that the super to make sure his officers understand that the road is open to pedestrians so such things won't happen in the future, destroying the people's trust in their police force.

[arcadian]

17. Fucking pigs

[Ilsa]

262. I'm gonna go with "fucking pig" on this one, and yes, there

are plenty of others out there that are "fucking pigs."

[FourScore]

18. Damn. n/t

[Alcibiades]

19. I have been picked up for something similar

Simply walking through a residential neighborhood late at night, literally down the middle of the street. Some paranoid asshole still called the cops on a "prowler," though how you can prowl in the middle of the street, I don't know.

You really should have given him a piece of your mind. As for being dropped off in front of a crowd of strangers by a police cruiser, I think that would be an opportunity for great fun!

[ChicagoSuz219]

20. His first question should have been...

"Son, are you okay?"

I'm sorry you went thru that. Sounds scary.

[Leftist Agitator]

21. Still think that the police are "good guys"?

I doubt you'll ever suffer that fantasy ever again.

Be glad that you aren't (presumably) African American, or things would have most likely been a whole hell of a lot worse.

[Clintonista2]

27. My eyes have certainly been opened

[Lorien]

207. I think that maybe 30% of them are "good guys". The rest are High School bullies and thugs

who will NEVER grow up!

[RKP5637]

22. Often I've said I would not be surprised to see American become a police state, especially

as the economy fails. Many think I'm nuts, but when you look at the patriotic act, the erosion of freedom in this country, the surveillance it's hard to think otherwise. It would be under the guise of national security, you know, for your own good. I've been harassed by the police over the years about 4 times for doing nothing wrong in the least. There are many RW'ers out there that would thrive on having a police state IMO. It would be to police the have-nots from the haves...

[Subdivisions]

23. The police came to my door today. They were looking for one of

my stepsons because he hadn't reported. I told them he wasn't here, doesn't live here, and will never live here. They were rude and asked to come in to see if he was here. That offended the shit out of me. I looked at the one who was doing all the talking and said what, do you think I'm a liar? It got pretty testy there for a bit. I was so beside myself I can hardly remember all the details now.

[Leftist Agitator]

29. Next time, tell them to get a warrant.

And then tell them that until then, they need to get the fuck off of your property.

[Subdivisions]

36. I was so angry that they were rude to me, like I was a criminal. It wasn't

me on probation and it wasn't me they were looking for. Don't come to my door, cop or no, and start giving me a hard time and insinuating that I'm a liar. When they left, I told them they would never find him here so don't come back.

[Leftist Agitator]

37. They treat everyone like a criminal.

Always, all the time, Period.

And so many people wonder why so many of us have less than zero respect for the police or the laws that they allegedly enforce...

Just be glad that you aren't (presumably) African American. I think you know why.

[Subdivisions]

I can't even imagine what our African American brothers and sisters

must feel or go through. It must be very humiliating.

[seabeyond]

150. I can't even imagine ... i hear ya. and i try to imagine and i dont like that

i know it isnt right on.

[Raschel]

225. This happened to my son. He was walking down the sidewalk two houses away from his home.

They grabbed him, cuffed him opened his mouth and threw him in the squad. They were looking for a White drug dealer. My son is Black.

Thankfully I taught him growing up never to argue or run from cops.

After they let him go, the cop said as he was walking away, "tell him not to get so excited".

[Raschel]

228. The cops stopped and asked my teenage daughter why her care was on the road.

She was waitressing and had late hours. When she told the cops her car broke down they asked for her license and when everything "checked out" they took off, leaving her there alone with a broken down car at night.

Thankfully she had a cell phone and hubby came and got her.

Protect and serve? Right.

[defendandprotect]

304. ...but our Congress and our Courts are permitting this . . . aren't these "stops" SC approved????

And the right to frisk a citizen in a stop . . . ???

What was the suspicion?

Or why ask about weapons?

Is this Homeland Security/Patriot Act in play?

Our Public Servants?????

Whaaaat ... !!

[Grand Taurean]

243. Too many oinkers do not know the Constitution.

The police academies are not in that business though. They are in the "authority" business.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

313. Is your stepson on probation or parole?

If so, and your address is his address of record (he could have done so without your knowledge), then they aren't required to obtain a warrant to search your house. Law Enforcement and probation officers have a lot of flexibility when monitoring their clients.

[salguine]

24. You should be making a huge stink about this. You should be contacting your

local media—TV news, newspaper—and you should have at least demanded the officer's name. This was an inexcusable abuse of authority. Who knows how many other people he's done this to? If it were me I'd sue his department.

[TexasObserver]

25. Yes, it's the police state, where police illegally ignore the constitution daily.

[flvegan]

28. Funny thing about easements and rights of way...

police know far too little about them.

You were in the right, he's an idiot.

[RamboLiberal]

201. Technically the poster could've been trespassing

If this is a busway you are not allowed to walk between stops on the busway property - considered a safety issue even though there may be a sidewalk. And private vehicles are prohibited. Usually they are patrolled by Transit Authority police or regular police.

And I'm not defending how the cop handled the situation, just pointing out the facts of a busway.

[jtuck004]

32. I'm very sorry you had to go through that.

But you lived, as not everyone will, so you did good.

Wish you had been able to shout "Hey Fred, try not to be late next time, ok?" as he drove off, though.

[vadawg]

33. you did the right thing you let him do his job, he was suspicious of you

you complied and didnt do anything dumb, he checked you out and then did the nice thing by giving you a lift to where you could get transport you were going to.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vadawg]

41. lol no his fucking job is if he sees someone on a darkened road in the middle of nowhere as per the

op and that person appears suspicious is to stop that person and find out what they are about, you do realise that this is a part of the job, you know stopping suspicious vehicles and people and doing terry stops....

[Subdivisions]

43. I bet you profile people too, don't you? n/t

[vadawg]

45. yeah of course i do, if i see you wearing gang colors and carrying a machete then i profile you as a

banger, if i see you in a ski mask with a shotgun running out of a bank then your pretty much profiled as a bank robber, if your lying in a ditch with a needle in your arm then your an addict, if im driving along a quiet road and i see a suspicious pedestrian who seems out of place then im going to stop them to find out whats up.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlecBGreen]

221. its tough to be a Democratic cop some times

:) yall have a very difficult job and Im sure you do the best you can. Thanks for all you do vadawg :hi:

[Cal Carpenter]

255. You keep saying the word suspicious

What makes the pedestrian 'suspicious'?

[Leftist Agitator]

54. Yeah, tell me again about how it's illegal to walk down a sidewalk.

You know, just because it's dark doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever the fuck you want.

Oh, and isn't a Terry stop supposed to involve some "reasonable suspicion" that you can articulate in a court of law if and when need be?

So, do tell, what is "suspicious" about a person walking down a sidewalk? And don't give me this fucking bullshit about a "bus-only" road. Bus-only roads don't have sidewalks (or exist in the first place, but I digress).

So, what's reasonably suspicious about a person walking down a sidewalk at night?

This oughta be good...

[vadawg]

68. yup and what im saying is that the cop had a reasonable suspicion and thats why he stopped him

and did a pat down and ran his ID, are you kidding have you never been on a street and seen someone who you think is suspicious even on a well lit street, the cop did everything a cop does if he is suspicious about someone, now if he had just pulled up alongside and given him abuse that would be different but he went through the full terry stop and running ID etc so it leads me to believe the cop had reasonable suspicion that something was not right, in the end his suspicion was wrong. Hell just going by what the OP wrote if that was in any number of areas i work then i would have reasonable suspiciona nd could easily articulate it in court.

[Hugabear]

72. You forgot the part about throwing him in the back of the police car like a criminal

So even after stopping someone, patting them down, running their ID and determining that they're "clean", you think it's still okay to make them get into the back of the squad car, drive them down to the bus station in front of everyone? I didn't read where the cop asked the OP if he wanted a ride. Doesn't sound like the OP was given a chance.

Damn. I didn't know it was illegal to walk down a dark sidewalk.

[Leftist Agitator]

79. "Damn. I didn't know it was illegal to walk down a dark sidewalk."

Yeah, it's, um, NOT, but you know, cops, they think that they can do whatever the fuck they want.

[Hugabear]

83. Hope the OP didn't have his hands in his pockets

That might have warranted a taser...or perhaps even a bullet in some areas.

Fuck, here in Orlando, it could have gotten the OP showered with a hundred bullets.

[Leftist Agitator]

73. "and could easily articulate it in court."

I fixed your typo.

That aside, let's play your game, just going off of what you know about the situation, defend your "reasonable suspicion".

I'm not a lawyer, but one of my best friends is, and I don't mind bothering him on the West Coast to make you look like a fucking idiot if need be.

So, do tell, articulate your reasonable suspicion, please.

[Hugabear]

77. Probably had a shiftless look in his eye

Cops can apparently see that from a mile away

:sarcasm:

[vadawg]

82. okay as we dont have all the facts, just what the op told us

im the cop who has stopped him as he fits the description of a suspected rapist who attacked someone a couple of blocks away, or the op fits the description of a burglar working the area, or the op fits the description of a bolo, see the point is from what the op wrote we dont know what the cops suspicion was or even if he had one, but theres a million reasons why a cop would stop someone in this situation. For me personally ill give you an example, i see a young white man walking at night down a certain road and hes wearing a red hat, im going to stop him and search him, simply due to the fact that hes in the wrong turf and theres a war going on and hes wearing battle colors, now it turns out its the op who got off at the wrong bus stop then im going to give him a ride out of that turf.

[Hugabear]

84. "Fit the description" - fuck, how did I just KNOW that you would use that eventually?

It was DARK. So I suppose that anybody could "fit the description" of any given suspect from a distance in the dark.

[vadawg]

88. rofl you know like a male wearing shoes that have red leds on them

or carrying a cello case, you do realise that police vehicles have headlights on them and spotlights, and im not going to waste my time on stopping someone if they are a latino women with black hair and the bolo is for a 7 foot chinese guy wearing a kilt... im shocked that you manage to drive in the dark if you have never noticed the headlights on your vehicle before..

[Tesha]

351. Two arms, two legs, one head, you know, "fits the description". (NT)

[Leftist Agitator]

91. You know, you're really reaching.

If that were the case, officer, don't you think that your fellow officer would have said that?

Not "This is a bus-only road".

Try again.

[vadawg]

98. as i said i dont know the area, or the regs there, might be the cop was scrambling for something

i got no idea, though i have used stuff like that if i dont want to reveal exactly what or who im looking for, for example im looking for a certain gang member, and i pull a car over for a taillight being out, the reason i pulled them over is for the taillight but my primary goal is to find a certain gangmember and the guys driving the vehicle are his homies, ill shoot the breeze with them and tell them about the taillight and to get it fixed inthe hopes that something slips, but as i said there is not enough info in the OP and nothing fromthe other side to really tell us the whole story.

[Subdivisions]

105. Why don't you just admit it. Admit what EVERYBODY knows to be true

about cops. You fuck with people on purpose whether you suspect them or not. YOU yourself have stopped people just because you felt like it and not because of anything they've done.

[seabeyond]

151. this is it. we know. he knows. i have never understood the person that knows people know and still

continue with bullshit....

[Ahpook]

287. I have my doubts that this poster is an officer.

But, I could be wrong.

I had some unfortunate dealings with these type "pigs" recently. They really dig pulling us over while riding bikes through the neighborhood. Ewww, big bad bike riders.

We ride at night because of less traffic during those hours. Some people find it amusing to act as if they are going to hit us. I ask, who the fuck should be getting pulled over?

To protect and serve my fucking ass.

This isn't limited to the recent harassment. I've had guns pulled on me for doing absolutely nothing.

These motherfuckers are out of control!

[stevenleser]

339. I dont think that is true. Come on. I think this person's thinking is deeply flawed, but...

I don't think it is fair to attribute to them what you have.

I think it is difficult for people to step out of their established patterns of behavior and examine them impartially. Police officers are no different from anyone else with regards to that.

It is categorically wrong for police to stop people walking on the street and demand ID, compel them to get into a police car or detain them in other way unless there is probable cause or a reasonable suspicion.

Because of the issues we have had with crime in inner cities, the leadership of those cities has directed the police to behave aggressively. Some police now think that this behavior is normal and OK, probably because they have been doing it for so long they dont perceive that it is wrong.

[Hugabear]

109. I bet you think that every young person in a "bad" neighborhood is a potential gangmember

Or perhaps one of his "homies"... :eyes:

[vadawg]

116. yes if they are fronting, or flying the colors, or tagging

its pretty obvious to the trained eye who is banging and who is not..

[Hugabear]

120. Couldn't ANY color be considered a "gang color"?

What color could the OP have been wearing that would not have been considered a "gang" color?

[vadawg]

124. no, different gangs wear different colors and in different ways

no blood in chicago is ever going to be confused for a crip or Gangster disciple, MS in VA wont be confused for 18th street or latin kings. the dress codes are pretty strict and you do get wannabees who end up losing limbs for copying the real thing, but for an example you have a kid in the crips hood and hes wearing red baseball cap, bagy pants, red bandana then you are going to stop him, cause even if hes not a blood hes gonna be mistaken for one and then you have a homicide or malicious wounding. gangs are pretty much into uniforms and uniform tattoos etc..

[Subdivisions]

121. Wearing a Texas Rangers baseball cap is no reason to suspect someone

is a member of the Bloods! Neither is walking on a sidewalk along a bus route! You are seeing suspicion where there is nothing reasonable to suspect! By your definition, every last human on earth can be judged as being suspicious.

I've had it with you.

[Hugabear]

122. I'm wearing a pair of blue shorts as I write this. Obviously I'm a potential Crips gangbanger

Hope I don't get frisked or tasered.

[vadawg]

127. and just by looking at you we could discount that....

same as when you look at a cop you can see hes a cop due to his uniform and things about it.. bangers are the same, at least until they move up and become OG, same as the biker gangs, their colors make them stand out..

[vadawg]

125. okay but if the texas ranger hat is part of the uniform of a local gang

ie affiliated with the bloods and the guy is walking along that bus route and you have reports that there was a suspected gang shooting of a crip three blocks away and the texas rangers guy fits a decription, then are you telling me that you would not think that he may be worth talking to .. as i said by the very fact he was stopped means that the cop had some suspicions that someting was not right...

[Hugabear]

128. Even still, you're assuming that there is gang activity in the OP's area

Considering that the cop told the OP that the street was for "buses only" - despite there being a sidewalk present - that tells me it was more about harassment than looking for a suspect.

[vadawg]

131. dude there is gang activity everywhere, its just at different levels

and there is no rule that says that i have to give you the real reason why i stopped you, i only have to give it in my report and to the court, though i dont know why he said about the bus thing and i got no idea about the area or why he said that...

[JoeyT]

142. *cough*

Actually, you do sort of have to give a reason for detaining someone.
In fact, if you're detaining them, you'd better have a *damned* good reason for doing it, or you're probably going to get sued.

[vadawg]

144. no i dont have to give you the reason, i just have to have a good reason

its a difference in the use of language, i just tell you im investigating something and that you fit the description of the suspect, i dont need to tell you anything that might make you more dangerous to me, ie i tell you ive pulled you over for the broken taillight which i have but im also looking for one of your buddies whos wanted and he rides around with you a lot... and i can only detain you for a reasonable amount of time, ie i stop you on traffic andi believe theres drugs in the vehicle, you refuse to consent to search, i call for the narc dog but its more than 20 mins away, then im letting you walk without any probable cause for an arrest..

[vadawg]

143. theres the point you ae missing, its not the person its the behaviour

and does the behaviour fit where the person is at, and then you look at other clues, like does the suspect have a RPG over his shoulder etc etc.. 99% of the time i notice that something isnt right and its out of place long before i realise what it is, you get to know your areas and stuff pops out at you..

[Caretha]

157. Listen up

the cop obviously lied to this young man. If he got off at a bus stop then obviously it's okay to walk there. How do you suppose people get to or from BUS STOPS? By walking! Besides that I never heard of a road or sidewalk for "busses only".

It was a freaking sidewalk that led to a BUS STOP!

The cop had no right to hassle him. THE COP LIED! If cops can't do their jobs without hassling ordinary citizens then they have no business being cops. YOU WORK FOR US, REMEMBER?

[TK421]

250. "YOU WORK FOR US, REMEMBER?"

no...they don't remember, they need to be reminded of that constantly

[Subdivisions]

102. You simply just do not get it, do you? Nothing you described justifies

that you be suspicious of the OP. Sure, you know there is a gang war and you know there is a rapist, but what you don't know is if the OP is part of either situation. Which means you have NO BASIS to suspect him, personally, of anything. And since you have no viable suspicion, you have no right to stop-and-frisk.


Edit: spelling (damn their, there, they're)

[vadawg]

104. yes i do, if i get a bolo and the guy fits the description then i have reasonable suspicion

and i will stop, would you expect a cop not to stop a vehicle that fits the description in an amber alert if he sees it.

[dionysus]

198. wow, someone took a whiff of the d-bag gas this morning.

:eyes:

[Flaneur]

108. You're assuming the cop had a "reasonable suspicion."

Whereas according to the OP there should have been none. Pedestrian walking down the street, minding his own business. Not wearing gang colors. Not toting a machine gun. What reasonable suspicion? Care to articulate what that might possibly be? Or does reasonable suspicion consist of: pedestrian walking down the street, minding his own business?

[vadawg]

129. as i said the OP dosent give us enough info, but theres areas where this would give me

reasonable suspicion, ie walking through a business area that gets zero foot traffic, think about it, how many times have you seen something you think is suspicious... there are a million things that could have made the cop stop him, some good some bad we just dont know, all im trying to do is show that this is not a black and white thing.. what might seem normal to you might be suspicious to a cop who knows his patrol area, little stuff like the businessman who opens late for the first time in 50 years, or a car that dosent fit..

[Bette Noir]

260. You might not want to defend the unknown cop so vehemently.

You're reinforcing the stereotype that cops are violent d-bags that take the notion that everyone who isn't a cop is a criminal.

I grew up with a dad who was outraged that a buddy of his was suspended for shooting a man in the back, in his sleep-- he had gotten the wrong address on the warrant. You sound just like my dad.

[tabasco]

292. That's the stupidest thing I'ver ever read.

What was the "reasonable suspicion," fake Recon?

Let me give you a clue. No reasonable suspicion is not the same as reasonable suspicion, although that is probably difficult for a cop to understand.

[Pithlet]

323. It's appalling.

If a significant portion of cops actually think this, then we are frigging doomed.

[alarimer]

312. He was under no obligation to show the police ANY id..

Last I checked this is not Nazi Germany. "Your papers please".

Those fucking thugs need to be FIRED, first, for not knowing the Constitution. And second, for acting like Nazi thugs.

[Pithlet]

322. What was reasonably suspicious about walking down a sidewalk??

???????

[greiner3]

269. Issac Asimov wrote a short story called;

'The Pedestrian.' A man is arrested for simply walking down the street. I'm glad Issac did not live to see this one become reality.

[troubledamerican]

321. Link: Ray Bradbury's "The Pedestrian"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pedestrian


PDF full story
http://mikejmoran.typepad.com/files/pedestrian-by-bradbury-1.pdf


YouTube animated vers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6HAA_tVdwM

[Gormy Cuss]

57. Walking on a darkened road in the middle of nowhere isn't suspicious behavior.

Only a paranoia person would think that.

This thread is loaded with good anecdotes to explain why so many people who would like to support LE are instead distrustful. Instead of yammering on about Terry stops you and the other LE reading this thread would do well to think about the consequences of viewing everyone not conforming to a narrow little window of behavior as a suspicious person.

[vadawg]

71. rofl to you it might not be suspicious, but theres plenty of areas i work where it sure as hell is

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vadawg]

112. yes im laughing, having a reasonable suspicion and stopping someone

does not mean you are trampling their rights, it means you have a suspicion that someting is not right and you are doing a field investigation, whether that is a car or a person..

[Hugabear]

114. Once again - tell us why it's acceptable to place someone in the back of the squad car

Especially after you've already frisked them and run their ID. Shouldn't you at that point let the person go? What right do you have to place that person in the back of your squad car?

[vadawg]

135. i think he said he was put in the car whilst waiting for his ID to come back

thats pretty standard, as is cuffing someone until the ID clears, even if i pat you down and your ID is clear i may still be doing a field investigation so i dont have to release you at this point as long as i believe i have cause to detain you whilst i investigate.

[Caretha]

158. Yes it is trampling their rights.

You need to buff up a bit on constitutional rights and figure out how you are helping to bring about a police state with your nitwit mentality. Personally, I think you're a lost cause...it is obvious you can't get it through your thick skull where your authority ends and a citizens rights begin.

[Gormy Cuss]

218. Again, someone walking at night even on a dark road is not suspicious behavior. n/t

[pundaint]

317. Field investigation while on routine patrol? Curiosity is not anything like reasonable suspicion.

[Gormy Cuss]

217. Maybe you should spend less time rofl and more time thinking. n/t

[RedRocco]

261. it is all part of the culture of fear

that we have created in this country. the cops are the most fearful of all, that's why they look at everyone with such suspicion.

[Raineyb]

123. There's no law against walking on a darkened road in the middle of nowhere.

So no he didn't "do his job" unless his job is harassing people walking down the street not bothering anybody.

And you wonder why people think cops are lazy, stupid, power-hungry, assholes.

[vadawg]

65. im trying to give you the perspective of someone who does stops like this in the middle of the night

in secluded areas, hell ive even been stopped when im working walking down the street, a big part of policework is making stops on suspicious people and vehicles, remember what to you is just another vehicle to a cop who knows his area is a suspicious vehicle..

[Hugabear]

66. 10:30pm is not exactly the "middle of the night"

Nice try though.

[vadawg]

74. i said i do stops like this in the middle of the night and in the middle of the day

but i guess 1030pm is as dark as 0300am in most places so you get the drift of what i was saying.. it was dark, secluded road, and a guy who the cop thought looked suspicious..

[Leftist Agitator]

100. "it was dark, secluded road, and a guy who the cop thought looked suspicious.. "

You know, racists would think that a black man looked "suspicious". That doesn't give the cop the right to stop and harass him, now does it?

But WAIT!!! You said he could be wearing "gang colors"! Shit, he could have had a Cowboys jersey on and a red baseball cap! And as any good cop knows, the notorious "Bloods" gang wears both red colors and five pointed stars! The guy MUST have been a gangbanger!

Now, do you see how very, very fucking stupid that sounds?

[Hugabear]

111. ANY color could be considered a "gang color"

Doesn't have to be the local gang. After all, as this idiot points out, the OP could have been wearing "gang colors" from some other gang.

[vadawg]

138. as the idiot as you call me pointed out, its pretty easy to spot the gangbangers

until they become OG, especially in an area you work, kinda like you know all the intersections on your route to work, the cops knows the turf he works. jeez and yes any color can be a gang color but its like blue is a cops color but you can tell the difference between the cops and the mailman cant you...

[Subdivisions]

39. God damn I'm sick of you defending this sort of shit! The Constitution,

our most basic of rights as citizens, means NOTHING to you.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vadawg]

44. and if you see a suspicious person outside your house are you going to call the cops

yes, well this is exactly what the cop did, he saw someone who looked suspicious and stopped him to talk to him and check him out, show me anywhere in the law where i cant stop someone if i believe they are acting suspiciously and talk to them...

[Subdivisions]

46. THE GUY WAS ON A PUBLIC SIDEWALK ON A FUCKING BUS ROUTE!

He wasn't breaking any laws!

You're about to be the only person on my ignore list. Once in a while on here I lose my cool. You're causing me to lose my mind.

How do you reconcile your actions, or those of the cop that stopped the OP walking, with the Constitution of the United States of America?

[vadawg]

61. easily the constitution and the laws allows a cop to stop you if they have probable cause

ie you are acting suspiciously, now to you a guy walking down a road might not be suspicious, but to a cop who works that area a guy walking on a road where nobody walks or in an area that has seen a lot of break ins or some other crime then that same guy could be suspicious, so you stop them talk to them, you give them a pat down for weapons for your safety and you run them, everyday police work...

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Leftist Agitator]

70. So, how do you articulate that suspicion?

Because, after all, that is the essential element of a Terry stop. Merely traveling through an area that is usually deserted does not constitute reasonable suspicion. Hell, if you give me a few, I can find the case law that says that hanging out on a corner in a high drug traffic area doesn't constitute reasonable suspicion.

But you knew that already, didn't you?

[Hugabear]

75. I'm sure he knows it - but cops rely on most people not knowing it

Just like simply running when you see a police officer does not constitute probable cause in and of itself - I don't remember what court case that was, it's been a few years.

[vadawg]

78. As i said this is a situation that every cop comes across, its not that hard to articulate your

suspicion, as i said how many times in your daily life do you see something that you think looks suspicious especially if you live in a bad neighbourhood or you travel through them, as i said the OP dosent know what else was happening in the area but he definetely sprung the cops suspicions thats why he ran him..

[Hugabear]

87. Nice to see that all cops have a psychic bond

So even though you don't know the cop in question, you can positively state that he had a legitimate reason for stopping the OP. Because we all know that police would never harass a young person. :sarcasm:

[Subdivisions]

92. If you're referring to Terry v. Ohio, that was in 1968! The 4th Amendment

was ratified in 1791. The 4th doesn't include language concomitant to Terry v. Ohio. That was a Supreme Court decision by just 8 people in 1968. The Court has often been wrong in interpreting the Constitution and this is one blatant example of that.

From Wikipedia (look elsewhere for this if you wish):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio
...snip...

The Court assessed the reasonableness of the police activity here by comparing it to activity that would ordinarily require a warrant. “... in justifying the particular intrusion the police officer must be able to point to specific and articulable facts which, taken together with rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant the intrusion.”

...snip...

What the court did in this instance is it destroyed the very essence of the 4th Amendment that specifically protects persons from unreasonable search and seizure. There are no ifs, ands, or buts included in the text. In fact, the text reads The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated

And even Terry v. Ohio is a flimsy call to hide behind as it says “... in justifying the particular intrusion the police officer must be able to point to specific and articulable facts which, taken together with rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant the intrusion.”. That means you MUST HAVE a specific reason you found that person suspicious.

Since the OP was walking down a sidewalk, and walking down a sidewalk is not a suspicious activity, then the cop had no right to stop-and-frisk him and throw him into the back of the police car, essentially kidnapping him and/or restraining him against his will.

[Lorien]

213. It's been on my "ignore" list for a long time

it craves the attention. Don't humor it!

[Hugabear]

50. "Acting suspicious" - WTF

He was WALKING DOWN THE FUCKING STREET. Please tell me that you are not a cop. If you're a cop, and you're going to defend this bullshit, then you are part of the problem

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JTFrog]

152. He is definitely a cop.

And he obviously expects everyone to be good Germans.

:shrug:

[Ikonoklast]

180. He is a member of the largest gang in the United States.

They wear blue, see all 'citizens' as a potential enemy, and are trained to think that it's 'Us vs Them' in academy.

They close ranks and defend and cover for each other's illegal activities, and have no problem lieing in a court of law.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

318. You have nailed it. It is pervasive in the manner in which vadawg expresses his opinion.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Caretha]

159. It is absolutely plain

as the nose on your face that this guy is one cop who doesn't get it, and will try to justify ANYTHING he does or another cop does. And it is obvious to me that he himself has no business wearing a uniform. I'll even go so far to say, I'd feel safer if he resigned today!

[verges]

266. Specifically, what Constitutional right of the OP was violated?

And which Constitutional rights is Vawdawg advocating be violated?

[ColesCountyDem]

308. You'll never get an answer to either question, sadly.

It's much easier to bitch and carp when you don't know jack sh*t about what the ACTUAL, pertinent constitutional law is ....

[stevenleser]

342. The fourth and fourteenth amendments come to mind. n/t

[verges]

345. I don't see the fourteenth.

I could see an argument for the fourth. But I would bet the SCOTUS would see it otherwise.

[stevenleser]

355. 14th Amendment regarding Due Process at the state level

It can be used to cover a lot of things. Anytime a state or local government does something that infringes on your liberty without going through the proper legal procedures, it is potentially a due process issue.

[Hugabear]

47. You seem to be on the wrong side of so many issues

The OP was walking down a public street - how in the fuck is that a crime? How in the hell should that raise suspicion?

[TexasObserver]

53. What was the police officer's constitutional basis for this encroachment?

You guys just don't get it, do you?

It's not your job to stop random citizens and check them out.

[vadawg]

85. who said its random, thats what you are all assuming, we dont know why exactly he was stopped

but he ran the stop the way we are trained to do it, he did a field investigation, it would be interesting to know what exactly has been going down in the area to see what the cops thinking was, but there is nothing to suspect its a random stop... though it could be whos to know we only have one side of the story..

[TexasObserver]

117. Reality: cop thinks he can stop anyone, any time, anywhere.

Reason? They don't need no stinkin' reason. They don't even bother with a pretense any more.

Thanks to the five knuckle draggers on the Supreme Court appointed by the GOP, cops can ask for ID now, and they've turned that into a right to shake down random citizens for no valid reason.

You guys need to learn more law and less departmental policy.

[seabeyond]

153. what you are stating, insisting, demanding we all accept is any cop can stop any of us at anytime

and trample our rights. we are not to question. we are to shut up and comply and do as told.

and people say NO, to you, here on the board.

for you

we are not allowed to say no.

[stevenleser]

356. One of the things you have been defending that is among the worst of the worst is...

your claim that the person being stopped does not have a right to know why. Let's run down the other problematic issues:

1. The extremely low threshold that in your mind, an officer has to meet to qualify as "Reasonable Suspicion".

2. The ability under that low threshold to detain someone and request their ID.
We all used to criticize the former Soviet Union for the ability of their law enforcement and other agencies to request people's "papers" at will for little or no reason. What you are describing is exactly that. It is a degradation of freedom and privacy to the point that it is non-existent.

3. Once detained, the right you assert that police officers have to not have to divulge why someone was detained.
Orwell would smile at this.

4. The combination of these three are worse than the sum of their parts as far as I am concerned. It is well over the abyss into totalitarianism.

Again, as I wrote up thread, you may not see the problems with any or all of this because this has been the official policy under which you have operated for some time. Right wing judges at various levels may have even upheld some or all of these policies at appeal. It doesn't matter. We are talking about inalienable rights here, some of which are codified in things like the bill of rights in general and the 4th and 14th amendments in particular among others. What you describe flies in the face of these amendments.

And there are alternatives. I'm involved with a group right now that is showing that such alternatives can be effective.

[omega minimo]

103. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????? ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:wow:

[G_j]

340. so is it ok

to make someone feel like a criminal when they aren't?

[FLyellowdog]

34. Many years ago...

I was returning from taking my husband to catch his ride back to Navy Norfolk. It's about 10:00 at night. I'm 8 months pregnant. I have our German Shepherd dog in the back seat. So I get pulled over because I apparently pulled out into traffic in front of this cop. He asked me to step outta the car, which I did, but of course what with all the hormones flowing I was crying by this time. He asks me why I'm crying and I tell him because my husband just left to go back to his ship and I've never been stopped before and it's late at night and I'm scared. During the whole time my dog is barking her head off and the cop says..."What's wrong with your do?" and I say she's just trying to protect me and he says "Well, I'd hate to have to shoot her." With that I start crying harder so I guess he figured he didn't want to take a chance on delivering a baby on the side of the road so he let me go "with just warning to drive more carefully" and then said to "get on home". Crazy thing was, he had the exact same name as my husband!Nice piece of work.

Sorry you had a bad experience. Glad you weren't tazed. :hi:

[midnight]

35. I'm glad your home. Remember this for your life, and hopefully

you can use it for the betterment of some other student/citizen to move freely on any bus route in our country. Maybe one of your school organizations can verify which bus routes one can walk and which ones are not walkable.

[Warpy]

42. At least he gave you a ride to the stop

but giving you any sort of warning for simply walking down a road was completely inappropriate. If it was for your safety, fine, but the clod didn't say that, did he?

As for his detaining you, it could be that the dark road has seen a lot of burglaries lately, one reason he might have been patrolling it.

A real asshole would have done all he did and then push you out of the car and roar off, leaving you with the rest of what could have been a dangerous walk to the bus stop.

Still, it's no damned fun being frisked and detained.

[TreasonousBastard]

49. Well, years ago I was driving a borrowed car that got impounded...

and I got a ride home from the cop, but he cuffed me.

"Procedure."

Uncuffed me on the sidewalk in view of anyone who happend to be around at the time.


Long before that, two cops in Tampa questioned me because I was slowly walking across a bridge looking down the river, at 2 AM.

"What're you doing?"

"Going for a walk."

"No, what are you REALLY doing?"

It got worse from there until I mentioned I just moved down from New York...

"NEW YORK! OK, they do stuff like that up there. Have a good night."

Oh, and there was the time I was handcuffed to the wall of a police station-- by the phone so I could call every one I knew to raise bail money for some lousy traffic ticket. I called everyone I knew to be be broke, but when someone finally agreed to come up with the money (only 100 bucks) I had a hell of a time trying to get her to say no without letting on to the cops in the room. I wanted to spend the night in jail, but they had budget problems and let me go with a "stern warning" to show up for trial.

Sometimes they're power-hungry pigs, sometimes there's a problem somewhere you wandered into or some wierd procedural abyss, but always try to maintain your sense of humor.

[frustrated_lefty]

60. Most of the people in this thread need to grow up.

To the original poster, ok, it was his first experience with the law. Some of the juvenile responses here are just embarrassing, though, like established lefties are going to cry because the law wasn't nice.

[Raineyb]

139. The cops and the idiots who make excuses for them are the ones who should be embarrassed.

This type of shit happens every day in some communities and it's not bloody acceptable. You shouldn't be harassed by the damn cops for walking down the street minding your own damn business.

[seabeyond]

182. "law wasn't nice." cops arent the law onto themselves. the "law" was broken, by your given

authority of law to the cop.

cop has laws adn rules to follow. cop ... broke .... the law

but hey

you seem fine with that and anyone to challenge the one that broke the law, not the one that didnt break the law, is immature.

rational reasoning there.

[Lorien]

208. Authoritarianism does NOT belong in America

and I won't join you in your support of it.

[The Midway Rebel]

62. Welcome to America son! Be Glad!

Be glad you did not get caught with any weed on you, be glad you are not a brown person and be glad you were not a very poor person. Things might have gone differently!

If you plan on walking the public streets after dark frequently, you might consider getting a haircut. Cops do not like social deviants, even though most of the ones I know personally actually are social deviant themselves.

Despite what some might say, you did the smart thing. A cop just "doing his job" can seriously fuck up your life. Remember, the law is whatever the cops thinks the law is.

[ShortnFiery]

174. You got that right!

"Remember, the law is whatever the cops thinks the law is."

So true! I was driving from San Diego to Phoenix after running the San Diego Half Marathon. As I was driving by Yuma, a highway patrolman mistakenly took my "bitchin tan" I acquired through months of training as *an Latina bloodline* and stopped my car. He had the whole "bad ass highway patrol" get-up (yes, to include smokey the bear hat and mirrored sunglasses). When he asked me the following: "What country are you from?" I almost cracked up laughing ... but maintained control.

At that moment, the smart ass in me wanted to yell out with an accent and fake castanets, "Amer-EE-Ka!" However, the SANE part of me lowered my sunglasses to expose my light blue eyes and enunciate in my native midwestern accent, "The United States of America, Officer. Specifically, Omaha Nebraska." He then mumbled, "You may go."

I feel great sympathy for latino people who much travel throughout southern Arizona and California. They are seemingly "always suspect." :(

Best to remember, the Police Officer you are dealing with "is a VIP" when he's lecturing you ... plus do NOT ever consider that he/she has a "sense of humor." :-)

[ddeclue]

76. Time for a lawyer and a lawsuit...

What was probable cause for stopping you? His excuse sounds totally made up.

I don't know you but was it "walking while black"? i.e. were you stopped because you were a young minority walking on a street at night?

I got stopped by some Mississippi yokel cop on I-59 one night apparently on the basis of driving while out of state... he lied to us and told me my tag lights were burnt out. Turns out they weren't and he just wanted to nose around inside our car with his flashlight. It wasn't even like I had NY plates, I was from next door in Tennessee.

[Leftist Agitator]

80. OP already said upthread that he/she is white.

That was my first thought too. Lord knows I've seen it happen enough to my African American and Latino friends.

[ddeclue]

118. sorry.. didn't read the entire thread...so many posts..thanks!

[Tesha]

353. Not a lawsuit, at least, not yet.

But a nice friendly chat with the Chief of Police or one or more
of the Police Commissioners is *DEFINITELY* in order. (At some
level, the police answer to elected or appointed public officials;
get to that level.) And if, at the end of that the OP still isn't
satisfied that the officer acted correctly, then the OP should
sign a formal complaint against the officer.

I sure would, if the story in the OP is basically factual.

Tesha

[Ken Burch]

89. Must have missed the good donuts down at the precinct house.

n/t.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

94. What sort of deserted, bus-only, 1-mile road exists with sidewalks?

You said it was dark, but were "No Pedestrian" signs posted? Something is off about this post...

[TorchTheWitch]

331. my town has one

I never saw the point of having it especially considering it is right next to a regular public street that starts and stops in the same place. There's a wide grass median that separates the regular street from the special bus-only street. It's off limits to cars at all times even when no buses are running (Sundays and between midnight and 7am the rest of the week). During the day it's crowded with neighborhood kids playing outdoor games and people walking their dogs and using the grass median as a potty park, skateboarders, rollerbladers, etc.

The only time that it's a bit of a problem is because of their being a bar at the starting end of the bus-only street the drunks coming out of the bar at closing time use the bus-only road to walk to where ever it is they're going often in big groups and are often loud and unrully throwing their empty beer bottles on lawns and smashing them on signs, passing out and throwing up on lawns, etc. The people that live along the bus-only road hate it, but the people that live along the regular street right next to it don't care so much since the drunks prefer to walk the bus-only road.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

338. Gotcha. But the OP described something different...

or left out important info. "Sidewalk with a curb" is what is throwing me with his post, and whether signs were posted about pedestrian traffic.

[TorchTheWitch]

358. it's pretty much a given that there would be pedestrian traffic

seeing as how people that use the bus on the bus-only route need to walk to and from the bus. Seeing as this happened at a time when buses were still running, I don't see how it's possible there could be any problem with someone walking on the sidewalk after getting off the bus or on their way to catch a bus.

Where my town's bus-only road is they'd prefer that pedestrians walk on the sidewalks on the bus-only road (as long as they're behaving themselves) since there's no parked cars on that road to damage and no likelyhood of being struck by a car... it's just generally safer for pedestrian travel as opposed to the regular street that parrallells the bus-only street. The residences and the cops just don't like the drunks using it after that bar closes because their behavior is often destructive and a nuisence. Most of the time now at bar closing time there's a cop car sitting right at the bus-only road entrance to encourage the drunks walking that road home to behave themselves.

I'm thinking that the OP's experience is really weird seeing that he was walking along the sidewalk of the bus-only road during a time that buses were still running that route where it would be expected there would be pedestrian traffic. The only thing I can think of is that there was some other reason the cop was suspicious of the OP... or the cop was just being an ass. With the problems that my town's bus-only road has with night-time pedestrians, I can see why there may have been some other reason the OP may have seemed suspicious. But if that were the case, then the cop should have said something so he'd understand there was a legitimate reason for being stopped. That's what the cops do in my town... if they stop a pedestrian there it's either out of concern for them or because there'd been a recent complaint or that there's been so much problems (mostly in the summer months) that anyone walking at night on that road can be suspicious and they'll say so. But without some kind of very specific complaint that was very recent, like the OP fit the description of someone complained about in the area or some kind of suspicious behavior I'm not seeing putting the OP through all of that with the frisking and putting him in the patrol car, etc.

I tend to think that at first it was a routine check to see if he was ok or the cop noticed something peculiar about the OP and then became more suspicous when talking to him. People can make cops suspicious just because of their being nervous about their being stopped but the cop doesn't know that's why they're nervous... they just see a person acting nervous for no apparent reason. I have a feeling it was the OP's nervousness that may have had a lot to do with the cop possibly becoming more suspicious. Then again, the cop could just be a total asshat.

[upi402]

95. Some think it's their job to be jerks, I've seen it

It's ridiculous because they serve US. But some behave like we intrude on their world. And some are sick and abusive - because they can be.

[alcibiades_mystery]

96. "it was the 20 most humiliating minutes of my life"

Get out more.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

173. I'd be pretty humiliated.

What kinda shit are YOU into?

[dionysus]

200. LOL, right on.

[Lorien]

212. Nice. You realize he's a kid, right?

the excessive nastiness of your post adds nothing to the conversation.

[TCJ70]

99. Why are people freaking out about this?

The OP is walking down a dark street, apparently a mile from the next bus stop, and a cop stops him. The cop then secures his own safety by making sure the OP, on a dark, I'm guessing secluded, street has no weapons. Then proceeds to give him a ride to the next bus stop in the only place available, the back seat of the car. Why is this a bad thing again?

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mithreal]

133. -1

:thumbsdown:

[seabeyond]

184. people are freaking out? or they dont approve of a cop abusing his power? nt

[dionysus]

202. because these people hate all cops? probably still pissed about getting busted with an 1/8th one

time

[Tesha]

354. We don't "hate ... cops" -- we just love the Constitution more.

I realize that's a radical idea among some "Democrats".

Tesha

[stevenleser]

357. The whole point of the system we live under is for us NOT to be stopped in a situation like this

It's sad that some people do not understand this. You really ought to spend some time reading about the reason for the bill of rights and each amendment, particularly the fourth amendment.

Unless law enforcement, whether police, or FBI or DEA, etc., have a good reason to suspect you of committing a crime, you should not be subjected to ANY dealings with them. That is the general standard. That is what the proponents of the fourth amendment were attempting to achieve with it. I can say with zero doubt that the situation described in the OP does not qualify as "a good reason to suspect the OP of committing a crime" as intended by the founding fathers when they wrote the fourth amendment. They would have been appalled. They would have said that this is exactly what they were trying to prevent.

To put a finer point on it, the police officer in question had a car and the OP was on foot. The officer could have read a description of the OP over the radio to include height, weight,gender, age, clothing, etc. I do not believe that there was a crime so close to this out of the way location that happened to be perpetrated by someone who looked SO MUCH like the OP that it could not have been ruled out by driving by and giving a description and thus NOT BOTHERING THE OP.

[Joe the Liberal]

126. Welcome to America where simply walking on a sidewalk is illegal......

next they'll be throwing you in prison for standing in the wrong spot or for looking at certain things or for moving in ways they don't like. I'm surprised he didn't beat you, being that you we're isolated and alone after all.

[guyton]

136. suspicion vs. probable cause

I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect the bottom line here is how "probable cause" is being interpreted.

As a civilian, I think of "probable cause" as being at least 50% sure that there's reason to arrest someone
before you can stop and interrogate them. Probable. Not just 'likely' or 'possible'.

But reading the posts from the cop, it seems that "being suspicious" is enough to stop and interrogate.
Must be like a hunch, only weaker.

This is not the country I thought I lived in.

[vadawg]

140. no the issue is how people see the situation, everyone is assuming that the cop didnt have cause

we dont know as there is not enough info, ive given examples as to why ive done stops in similar circumstances and thats just the criminal cases, not the stopping some guy whos lost and looks it, or the mentally disturbed guy, the point being is what do you call suspicious, and if you were the cop would you hve found the OP suspicious, you dont know, we cant know unless the cop tells us...

[sohndrsmith]

146. We, specifically, don't have enough info, but the officer who dealt

with the event has his dash-cam, which of course, would provide a massive amount of relevant information.

I find it curious that, while you claim to know the limitations and requirements for PC, you swing from being overly defensive about the incident to shrugging your shoulders because of the lack of information.

How disturbing it is (if you are, in fact, in law enforcement) that you categorize any person or situation so readily, even in theoretical debate. Your statements are the very reason for what's wrong with the relationship between LE and the community they serve. The WORST possible scenario is for law abiding citizens (regardless of race, clothing, demeanor - even addiction, or locale) to lose even more trust and respect for the policemen and women in their district/community.

Your philosophy speaks to the increasing, pervasive war-like mentality of some members of LE, and how the depersonalization of actual human beings denigrates both the honor of the officer and the respect and rights of all citizens.

We have become a society that those in power or with power measure and categorize every individual, and for those who don't fit the proscribed categories, they're relegated to the closest, when it's likely not close at all.

Yours is a disturbing modus vivendi, especially considering the possibility that you can alter, undermine, even crush a person's future based on supposition. Being charged with any violation these days can be the permanent wall between a job seeker and a job. I don't think all LE realize the real-life sentences their actions sometimes penalize good people with. For life.

[seabeyond]

147. and you blithely assume there must have been a reason, without any factual information while rights

are ignored.

you and i and everyone on this thread know the cops stop, question, frisk, and check out without any other reason than a male late at night on the streets.

my husband did a drive with a cop a couple years ago. poor neighborhood, a couple guys late at night, walking, were stopped, frisked and checked out. no reason but cause there is a possibility something might be found, or the guys might be wanted. husband had no thought to this being wrong. he tells me story and of course i know it is wrong.

that kid did not have to do a damn thing for that cop and we all know it. yet up above you say, good job, you complied. more people should not comply and should not make it so easy for you cops to break the laws

[Cid_B]

149. And you blithely assume there wasn't one...

All you have is one side of the story and as usual have your feathers up and ruffled based on your assumption that a) everything the OP says is exactly how it happened and b) you have no need to know what the other side is to form your opinion

Much easier to just jump in and squawk isn't it?

*yawn*

[seabeyond]

154. yes, it is pretty obvious. and those sticking up for the cop knows it too and yet defend.

feathers and sqawking? better than a sheep that bends over

[COLGATE4]

279. Reasonable, articulable suspicion to stop (Terry stop)

is not the same as probable cause (the threshold for obtaining a warrant). The courts have determined that a Terry stop is a minimal intrusion on our liberties and therefore only requires that a police officer have a reasonable articulable suspicion of a person/action in order to carry out a Terry stop. That is what was done with this young man. While you can quarrel with the reasonableness of the officer's actions in this particular instance, based on what was reported here it seems likely that the Terry requirements were met in this case. Also, all police departments with which I am acquainted do not permit civilians to ride in the patrol car except in the (locked) rear area.

[ColesCountyDem]

309. The legal standard for 'probable cause' is actually "slight cause."

Has been for years....

[Cid_B]

141. The most random threads will shoot up...

All it takes is a few back and forths...

In any case I wouldn't worry about this. He checked you for his safety and you got a free ride out of it.

Lastly, if this really was the most humiliating 20 minutes of your life I am impressed. The rest of it must have been a cake walk.

[pipi_k]

193. The humiliation factor...I agree

Although, to be fair, the OP is very young, so it's unlikely he's had much experience with humiliation anyway.

When you get older, other more humiliating moments have a way of happening ;)

[WorseBeforeBetter]

341. It's a hit-and-run; we haven't seen the OP since #27 (or so...).

I'm not really buying the story. Threads like this are posted to get a reaction out of people -- to pit the authoritarian v. "cops are pigs" contingents against each other. And it worked.

[stevenleser]

359. Maybe not. Assuming it is true for a moment, the OP was embarassed and humiliated...

I am not sure they would want to stick around for a long time in the thread to keep experiencing it. And those who are siding against them probably make them feel even worse. Again, assuming its true. I dont know if we will ever know for sure one way or the other.

[WVRICK13]

145. All I Can Say

is, it appears you met a cop who is drunk on the power of the uniform. Since he acted like your walking was a crime and he was doing you a favor by letting you go I am concerned about what would have happened if you would have shown the least bit of deviance. My suggestion is to file a formal complaint. With the time and location they can ID the officer in question. These kinds of things need to be in their records so they can weed him out of the force if it is a trend or the officer is abusing power.

[Caretha]

155. Let me see if I got this straight

You missed your "bus stop" (a sidewalk where people get on and off a bus,) and got off at the next "bus stop" (a sidewalk where people get on and off a bus),right? Then a cop tells you "you were walking on a sidewalk/street that "was for "buses only".

What's wrong with this picture? I think perhaps the cop was....wait for it..........

LYING out his fuckin' teeth.

You see, places where busses stop to pickup & drop people off indicates to me that ...guess what!!! they had to walk to get there.

Geez, the cop was not only a liar but also must have a really low IQ to come up with that crap.

[Botany]

156. Ask to speak to the chief of police ASAP

Bring a lawyer w/ you if you can find one to work pro bono

[southernyankeebelle]

160. How sad this is what our country has come to. Thanks Bush/Cheney everyone is

the enemy. What scares me now and I am white and old if you are gay or a person of color or a foreignor you better watch out. Just on those three things your in trouble all because your on this earth. This country isn't free like it was once. Scary.

[Wizard777]

167. Americans being the enemy of the government goes back to Nixon. Reagan kicked it into overdrive -

with the war on drugs. I still say Reagan should have been dragged from the white house and hanged from the nearest tree for treason.

[sendero]

161. I take umbrage..

... at any cop that acts like I am a criminal before the first words are spoken.

I generally only find these sorts of fucks in smaller towns, Dallas police have always treated my like a human being.

The only reason a cop treats you like a criminal before knowing anything about you is that they are fucktards on a power trip.

[seabeyond]

169. criminal before knowing anything about you is that they are fucktards on a power trip

my experience is about 50/50. i understand that a lot of people dont have issue with a cop with an attitude of person being criminal before any facts or conversation is had. i personally feel the guy is an ASS when he immediately treats me as a criminal for a traffic violation. (the only time i have interacted with police.

i get some that treat me like a middle age woman that broke a traffic violation and we get along great

and some that act like i am a criminal and i immediately treat him like an ASS.

[shireen]

163. i once heard this story about someone i know ...

A young black man, he was picked up by the cops because he was walking around with binoculars near a popular mall. I don't remember all the details, but it may have also happened two more time after the first incident.

He was a birder, in fact, one of the best ones in our state. The area he was 'caught' at was a good birding spot.

Once he finally convinced the cops that he really was birding, they started vouching for him whenever people called to complain about a suspicious man with binoculars. :7

[TexasObserver]

164. If you're black, they think you're selling drugs. If you're white, they think you're buying them.

If you're Hispanic, they think you're here illegally.

If you're Asian, they think you're a gang banger.

See how it all works out for the cop? Whoever you are, he's got a rationale for why you're a criminal and he needs to check you out. When someone turns out to be selling, carrying or whatever, the cop uses that as his justification for all the other stops he makes. In his mind, his ability to spot criminals is great, even if he's wrong 75% of the time.

They become cops because they like to be authoritarian.

[seabeyond]

171. and a 40 yr old white middle class woman with a 4 and 6 yr old is a terrorist to take down a plane

with family on it.

ya

i hear ya. lol

talk about rational

[Wizard777]

165. I would call the MTA to file a complaint. If it's illegal for you to be on that road.

It should also be illegal for the bus driver to discharge you on that road. You got your shake down. The bus driver should get an ass chewing at the least.

[dugaresa]

166. I was at Frankfurt airport on my way home recently and had to endure a full search and frisking

I had to open up my purse and all contents and explain everything. My laptop bag and contents were also opened and had to be explained. I was then wanded, frisked and questioned about why I had traveled to Europe and for how long I had been there.

Later, a fellow US citizen told me that i was probably tagged because I could "pass" for middle eastern (i have dark hair and an olive complexion)

In a weird way, it is a bit frightening when it is happening because I start to think, "what did i do to set this off". I worry that I forgot to put the nail clippers in the checked bag, etc.

Then it is over because I didn't do anything wrong, although the folks were amazed at how I could cram so much crap in my purse.

[ShortnFiery]

168. Don't feel bad, it's not just you.

Let me preface these comments to say that my next door neighbor is a Patrol Officer and one of the fairest and nicest individuals you would care to know. He's great!

However, there are elements within every police force who serve for "the power trip."

I was almost arrested for rescuing an 8 week chocolate lab puppy (already suffering heat stress) from a gold-emplated Cadillac Escalade on a 90 degree F day.

Sadly, the Police are not different than any other group and far too many "Authoritarian Personalities" slip through the filter before graduation.

You have my complete empathy. But please know that the majority, IMO, of Law Enforcement Officers are basically fair and attempt to tone down their power tripping colleagues. :shrug:

[blueamy66]

170. This thread scares the hell out of me.

Jesus,innocent people being treated like criminals and a cop defending his/her right to treat an innocent person like a criminal.

I'm afraid to drive to work or walk down the road today.

Jesus Christ

[donco6]

175. Me too.

And that people even here could defend it is mind-boggling.

[Echo In Light]

177. +1

[stevenleser]

360. Yes, and a lot of people not really understanding at all why we have a fourth amendment.

Its one thing to know the words and a general way it is applied. Its another to know the history behind why the founding fathers fought to have it in the Bill of Rights and thus as a change on the very fabric of the Constitution. What was the concept that they found so important. If you understand that, I dont think there is anyway you can accept what happened to the OP as not a big deal. Assuming, of course, we have enough of the relevant information of what transpired.

[shireen]

172. cops are people too

you're going to encounter some jerks and you'll also find some kind decent people. Just like any cross-section of society. Most of the time, we hear about the jerks or about the misunderstood incidents.

I'm a dark-skinned female. All my interactions, so far, with cops have been good. I remember one guy who pulled me over for speeding. He had me sit in the patrol car while he wrote me up. I was very nervous; I kept apologizing over and over, and finally, either to make me feel better or shut me up, he admitted that he had also been caught speeding. LOL! When i got very sick a few years ago and had to call 911, two police officers responded and stayed with me till the ambulance arrived -- they were absolutely wonderful, especially the one who sat with me and monitored me till the paramedics got there.

[AlecBGreen]

223. best comment of the thread

"you're going to encounter some jerks and you'll also find some kind decent people. Just like any cross-section of society. Most of the time, we hear about the jerks or about the misunderstood incidents."

thank for speaking some sanity

[stevenleser]

361. I agree and that is why in almost every one of my comments, I've criticized the actions

of the policeman in the OP situation and the one commenting in this thread while explaining how it could come to be that some police act this way in a non accusatory way.

I always treat the police with respect and pleasantness and 95% of the time I get that in return.

[Echo In Light]

176. Authoritarian sadist w/an inflated ego & way too much time on his hands

[ShortnFiery]

178. It's self-preservation to slip into the conversation that somebody is waiting for your arrival

and will become disconcerted if you are too late. Also, if you have police officers in your family, it's valuable to mention that too. Then the authoritarian cop will less likely try something outlandish.

[Echo In Light]

179. My sister's family made Thee Shit List of a VERY corrupt group of small town deputy dawgs

All due to how those sadists singled out one of her teenage daughters (I've had encounters w/them in the past, as pretty much everyone around these rural parts have) who, along w/her older sister, were straight A students, jocks, "good kids," etc

....the stories I could tell...ugh

[Raschel]

244. That didn't work in Minneapolis. White guy, pulled over on freeway, daytime, in plain sight,

on his way to pick parents up from the airport. Argued with police, tased and died.

[Soylent Brice]

181. PAPERS PLEASE!! welcome to the New America.

bullshit, isn't it?

[RobinA]

187. Matter of Perspective

As a female, I would have been happy for this to happen, given the mile walk down a deserted road that you describe.

[pipi_k]

192. Great point...

And even men aren't immune from attacks, as we see in the news all the time about pizza delivery guys and such getting killed or robbed...

[Lorien]

211. I would not-not with the interrogation that came before hand

I would be fearful of being sexually assaulted by the cop. It's happened here in Florida quite a few times.

[stevenleser]

363. And I am sure the OP would have felt differently if the officer gave the impression that they were

looking out for the OP's safety and not operating under the assumption that he was a criminal.

[pipi_k]

188. I'm sorry for your bad experience, but there are a couple of bright spots in the tale...

1. You were let out of the police car at the bus stop...not put in. The people there can wonder anything they want to. I don't personally think anything bad if I see the cops letting someone out of a cruiser. Maybe they know the person and gave him a ride or something. The cops used to give my second husband a ride home all the time from the bars and stuff.


2. I read upthread that you are white (which I'm glad someone else asked, because I did wonder myself). And so were the cops apparently? This is a good thing, as far as the present discussion goes. Because if that were not the case, then this entire thread would be full of accusations of racism directed toward the cops, with absolutely NO hard evidence whatsoever. Just the opinions of people who think they have some inside knowledge of what was in someone else's mind. Yes, people are profiled for all sorts of reasons. I've been profiled myself for various reasons. But not EVERY case of apparent harassment is race-driven. If two people are in the same exact situation at the same time and both innocent of any crime and the white person is released, but the black person is arrested, then YES. I would definitely say racism must be a part of it.


Anyway, I'm sure it must have been pretty frightening for you. I've been scared shitless myself after being stopped for going through a stop sign I didn't see, and another time for driving in a rainstorm without my headlights on.

It's no picnic, that's for sure!

[ieoeja]

189. I would have thanked him for the ride.

But as a long-haired 48 year old, I have enough experience to laugh it off. It would have made him look good in the eyes of the crowd for being kind enough to give a guy a ride to the bus station while probably making him feel like a bit of an idiot. If I was really lucky, he would have taken offense and told me to watch my mouth. I then apologize, he drives off, and I have a crowd of supporters wondering why the cop was such a dick.

On the plus side, you now have a little experience too. Enjoy it. My ex-stepson's life is the sort of life that generally leads one to a life of crime. But he's had me there to emulate. So at 13 now, he was telling me how exciting and interesting his life has been compared to everyone else he knows.

In the future you can tell this story in one of two ways. You can either complain about how badly *you* were treated and how *you* felt humiliated. Or you can laugh at the *cop* for being stupid and an asshole.

One path leads to happiness. The other to a life of misery.

Good luck.

[pipi_k]

190. hahahaah!!! See, that's the spirit!!!

:7

[RKP5637]

194. Good advice IMO. For me, I would follow your advice, because clearly, as you say,

"One path leads to happiness. The other to a life of misery." There is so much stress in this society today one can easily become consumed by it IMO.

[LWolf]

195. Since when are there roads restricted to "buses only???"

Something is not right about that.

[RamboLiberal]

197. Busways - we have a few in my area

And technically they are private property. You will be stopped by transit police or regular police if driving a private vehicle or walking the road between stops. Since I don't take the bus in my area I'm not sure if they have sidewalks between stops. Public is only to access the busways at designated passenger stops.

[LWolf]

199. Nobody gets ticketed for using the private road I live on.

It's never occurred to me that they weren't "allowed" to.

I'm wondering what provisions are made for people who miss a stop, if they can't walk back to where they needed to be.

[RamboLiberal]

204. They probably think you should wait for a bus back

Or stay on the bus till it makes the reverse trip. Or if you know the lay of the land walk back via the public streets.

Best thing would be to tell the driver you missed your stop and ask what is best way to get back.

Believe me the transit authorities can be real jerks about their private busways.

[RamboLiberal]

196. You said the road was for "bus only"

Were you possibly on a busway? That could be private property technically and if you're not at a bus stop then you could've been considered trespassing. We have busways in my area and you're not allowed to be walking between stops on the busway even if it had a sidewalk, and private vehicles are prohibited.

Was this a regular cop or a transit cop? In my area regular cops can use the busway but normally it is patrolled by transit cops.

Now that being said I think the cop was wrong to immediately suspect you, ask if you had a weapon and frisk you. Could've first asked why you were walking on the sidewalk and then after getting your story taken you back to your stop.

BTW I got stopped one time while walking for exercise by a patrolling private security guard in middle of afternoon and told to get the hell off a road that looked like a public road that I had walked on for years near my office. The guy acted like a officious jerk. Seems it was private property and was posted(by company out of business by that time) though everyone in the neighborhood ignored it. All that was at the end of the road was a dilapidated office/warehouse complex that's been empty for several years and probably has a snowball's chance in hell of being sold in this crappy economy.

[Kievan Rus]

206. I can tell it wasn't one in Pittsburgh

I've been on buses that go along all three of the busways here (East, West and South) somewhat regularly at one time or another, and none of them have sidewalks along the side of the road. The one described in the OP does...so it has to be one someplace else.

[RamboLiberal]

215. Just using Pittsburgh as a example since I live here

And the poster was told the road was for busses only which made me suspect it technically was considered private property and restricted except for designated stops to pedestrians.

[roody]

203. You should know that walking is illegal. Lawabiding

people only drive.

[Maat]

246. HeeHee.

:rofl:

That's it, per this Southern Californian's point-of-view.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

205. Sounds like he did you a favor by giving you a ride.

:shrug:

[LanternWaste]

264. And handcuffing him too...

And handcuffing him too... :shrug:

[TCJ70]

319. Where do you get that he was handcuffed from the OP? n/t

[davsand]

210. If the bus let you off at a stop how could that road be "buses only?"

I'm scratching my head over that one, and I think it might be worth a phone call to the transit district to see what they can tell you about their routes. If they say that is a regular night route I think I'd ask them about that particular stop and why they use it if it is a "buses only" road.

As for being mortified to ride in the back of the police car, I deal with that fairly often. My office was given an old Sheriff's car to use as our department car. It is the plain unmarked police special complete with the hand spot (and a couple of bullet holes--but I'm not EVEN gonna go there...)

Anyhow, we are a three person office and it is a running thing about who has to sit in the "perp seat." Usually I don't win the rock/paper/scissors that settles all debates in my office, so I end up in the back seat looking like a criminal getting hauled around. When we get to where ever it is we are going, somebody has to let me out because the doors do not open from the inside. My FAVORITE thing to do when I'm riding back there is to WAVE at people. Freaks them right the hell out!

I'm sorry you were upset about what happened, but I have to admit, if I'd been walking alone down a dark deserted street I might have been kinda happy to see that cop even IF he was an asshole to you. He may have been a jerk, but he also may have kept you from even greater harm.

Peace to you.


Laura

[RamboLiberal]

214. A busway has bus stations along the route

That have public access. Here's example of one of the Pittsburgh busways.

Stations

The Martin Luther King, Jr. East Busway services Downtown Pittsburgh, Oakland, the East End and eastern suburbs of Allegheny County with local and express bus service. There are 10 stations located along the East Busway. These ADA-accessible stations are equipped with rider-friendly features, such as built-in shelter passenger information boards and a direct intercom connection to Port Authority Police. Benches, bike racks and public telephones are also available at each station along the East Busway.

Express routes travel the busway from the east end and eastern suburbs, offering a traffic-free ride from many neighborhoods. All nine stations are served by route EBA East Busway-All Stops, with frequent service to Downtown Pittsburgh seven days a week. The EBO East Busway-Oakland provides trips directly to Oakland and serves all stations between Swissvale and Negley inclusive, and the EBS East Busway-Short serves all busway stops from Downtown Pittsburgh to Wilkinsburg.

The stations and stop along the East Busway are located in the heart of the communities’ business districts and offer 10 minute or less walks to services and retail outlets such as banks, day care centers, schools, parks, grocery stores, pharmacies, community centers, residential areas and municipal buildings. Click on the stations below for more information regarding transit service and amenities found at each location.

http://www.portauthority.org/PAAC/CustomerInfo/BuswaysandT/MartinLutherKingJrEastBusway/EastBuswayStations/tabid/201/Default.aspx

[tranche]

219. Coming from someone who's spent a lot of time in the back of cop cars.

That's not too terrible. These guys usually come off as real dicks. Who knows what they're thinking these days (mainly I believe they now see every interaction with citizens as a conflict). Now that I'm a bit older I see some of these things with a wider lens. You've got a lot of life ahead of you, one little ride back to a bus stop is small potatoes.

[Liberal_in_LA]

220. thug cop!

[jotsy]

224. I say to you young sir, this is not how it is supposed to be.

The day any person can be treated in the manner you were as a result of walking down the street is IMO, reprehensible. To know that furthermore you were made to feel like his treatment of you was somehow your own fault speaks more to the power trip that appears to be an occupational tendency these days rather than the hazard it used to be. Your generation was born to a freer nation, and I hope mine, (I can raise your 22 by a quarter century)will take a more active role in communicating to peace keepers and other law enforcement personnel that the regularity of their authoritative nature is abusive to an independent people.

I'm so sorry you were scared. In my day of your age, we were free to be free. I can't tell you how much it frightens me to see following generations being made to forget how to expect it.

Hugs to you. Tomorrow's bound to be a more aware one.

[hatesthegop]

227. All cops are worthless scum

They are nothing but the shit stain on society and we have let them get that way because of the glorification put out by assholes like fox news and others...COPS comes to mind, they show these arrogant pieces of crap treating SUSPECTS with extreme disrepsect. That gets popular amongst the sheep and soon enough it becomes standard practice in all police departments.

[dionysus]

234. you got busted for weed, didnt you?

:rofl:

[hatesthegop]

332. No I worked in a defense attorney's office for awhile

and also did a lot of collaboration with the department of assigned counsel.

[Name removed]

235. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TK421]

229. There, there....don't you feel safer now? knowing cops like this are looking

out for your well-being? :eyes: Sounds like he was bored and had nothing better to do

I wish they would catch some REAL criminals...oh, wait-nevermind

[Echo In Light]

233. $ well spent (not)

[clowncar]

230. You should have asked him what the "warning" was for?

And NEVER talk to the police, ever.

[Fire1]

236. That's what I want to know!!!! Warning for what??? And

Welcome, clowncar.

[clowncar]

238. EXACTLY! I had something like that happen once

walking down the street, cop waves me over and asks for ID. I give ID and he starts asking questions. I ask if I am under arrest or may I be on my way and he gets real defensive. Asks MORE questions to which I reply "am I under arrest for something officer or may I leave?" Makes me stand around for 15 minutes while he runs my ID then says he is letting me go with a warning and I ask what for? He says I should just turn around and get going, so I did.

[Echo In Light]

241. Those who've never had this type of thing happen often think the case is overstated...

... by those who have. Surely, they suppose, you must've done something to warrant it

[Raschel]

251. Freepers say things like that. "Must've done something to deserve it, probably a dopehead, blah blah

[seabeyond]

256. hey, we have a duer saying, "must have been busted for pot" cause negative about cop

wow

the similarities

[webDude]

237. ?! At that point, I would suggest "yes sir, no sir, etc.", not asking him...

...what the warning was for.

[clowncar]

239. Oh, I agree. Always be polite and don't get upset.

But there is no need to answer any question, ever, without a lawyer. If you KNOW you have done nothing wrong, then just ask "am I under arrest or may I go now?"

[webDude]

240. I will agree, he acted like an arrogant butthead. However, about...

...putting you in the back of the patrol car: a cop gave me a ride after we had stopped(separately) to help someone along the road. HE had me sit in the back seat. Yeah, it did feel weird and a little embarrassing to get out and have people see me, but I can guess that if he did not do that and his boss found out, that he would get his butt chewed out for being unsafe. This particular cop was very nice, as are most I meet. I have had the other type, of course.

[Fire1]

245. See, this is how you know you're dealing with psychosis!!

Don't say or do anything to "upset" the "officer." How about we not look him directly in the eye, either, cause that can be percieved as confrontational.:crazy:

[seabeyond]

259. Don't say or do anything to "upset" the "officer." ... good little german. head down, no eye

contact and we are suppose to do this willingly? i. do. not. get. it.

i am not a criminal. i am not a threat. someone wants to tell me why the hell the cop is SO almighty i cant ask, .... warning for what?

without fear of arrest, taser, assault or death

[seabeyond]

258. we are being warned, yet dont have the right to know what the warning is for? are you fuckin series

!!!11!!!!

for real

they have that uch power, that a person is not even allowed to know what the warning is

i am stymied that you willingly give cops so much power over us

[TornadoTN]

288. Normally, I'm fair when it comes to the police. But you still have a right to know

You have a right to know what you are being questioned, warned, arrested, etc. for. It is still taught in basic classes at Police Academy that you (as a cop) are required to be clear in your communications with anyone suspected of an offense.

Of course, that doesn't mean they all abide by it by any stretch. But as a citizen, you can ask questions of the officers and expect an answer back. Then you can decide whether to keep quiet or inquire further/offer an explanation.

Overall, I think most police officers are good, honest, hardworking individuals who try to the best for the people they serve. But there is an increasingly growing number of officers who are bullies or ego-driven power mad jerks that are making the entire profession suffer. Add to that the changing regulations that they are given, especially in the age of the Patriot Act and "protecting against terror" giving them more latitude to do as they please, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

[DissedByBush]

242. Know your rights

Start by memorizing the ACLU Bust Card

http://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/racialjustice/rp_bustcard_eng_20090929.pdf

Always ask for and record the badge number and name. They must give it to you.

He was allowed to pat you down for weapons. That's an officer safety thing. Other than that, no search allowed with special circumstances.

The criteria for detention is generally "Reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot." Once it had been ascertained that no criminal activity was afoot he was probably required to release you.

Always say "Can I go now?" at certain points. If they say no after there's no more reasonable suspicion, Busted!

File a complaint if you think he went too far in this.

Then learn the rights specific to your state.

Was the officer entitled to demand ID from someone not driving?

Were you even required to give your name?

Were you required to answer to having been convicted of a criminal charge?

Note, these may allow them to extend your detainment, but can be fun if you have time to kill.

[sui generis]

249. what Dissed said . . . .

for sure. :P

[sui generis]

247. complain. Write to internal affairs

Tell them this so called "bus lane" was not clearly marked as off limits to pedestrians and you think you were harrassed by this officer.

It is what it is. Maybe they thought you were a drug dealer or prostitute or inebriated or something - most people don't cast about on dark streets by themselves at night if everything is usual and normal, so you did make yourself noticeable that way.

[CreekDog]

248. I'd verify the statement about not being allowed to walk on that sidewalk

and if not correct, I'd report it to his internal higher-ups *and* some representative outside the police department.

[Maat]

252. I'm sorry that happened to you.

I'm grateful it wasn't a horrible experience.

[pipi_k]

253. OK I just got the opinion of an ex-cop

and before I go into it, I just want to mention that this person wasn't the type to just "go along" with whatever the unspoken policies were, such as NOT stopping family members of city personages (Mayor, Chief of police, etc) and giving them a ticket.

The old line, "Do you know who I AM???" didn't work on him.

Also, he's expressed nothing but disgust for cops who abuse their power...cops who act in a disrespectful or rude manner toward anyone, to say the very least, never mind cops who abuse or beat up on defenseless citizens.

Having gotten that out of the way, this person basically said that in the course of protecting the public, cops also want/need to protect themselves.

Put yourself in his place. It's a dark road. You're alone. You see someone who is walking down this road that either is or isn't restricted to only buses. You don't know if this person has a weapon...if he's up to no good.

Yes, you have a weapon, but it's not impossible for it to be taken away.

And...most importantly of all...even though you have a weapon, you do NOT want to end up using it...in effect, end up shooting a person who may be innocent of any wrongdoing. Imagine having to live with that possibility the rest of your life.

So you do whatever you can...whatever you have to...in order to get to the bottom of the story while guarding your own safety.

He may have been just as nervous as you were.

The person I talked to about this...18 years on the police force in a large city, and never once had to fire his weapon. Most cops don't want to hurt or kill other people. They just want to do their jobs and get home safely to their families.


So...yeah...it was unnerving...embarrassing...but nobody got injured or killed, and that's a good thing.

If you feel you were misused in any way, then you have the right to contact the PD and file a report or request an investigation. But I don't think this is something that horrifying.

[Pithlet]

324. Don't cops drive by people walking down sidewalks all the time?

That makes absolutely no friggin sense. Please. There must be a cop with a brain somewhere?

[iris27]

362. The checking to make sure the OP didn't have a weapon I have no problem with.

But there's no reason at that point to take his ID and put him in the back of the car while the data comes back. He should have verified the absence of weapons and offered a ride to the bus stop.

[Bette Noir]

254. Golly, I had no idea that walking between bus stops was a crime.

I should have been arrested a few hundred times, when I was a student reliant on public transportation.

[CLANG]

263. You are not pigment enhanced, are you?

If so, you may have violated the "walking while black" laws. :sarcasm:

[followthemoney]

267. The Pedestrian, by Ray Bradbury

As I remember, a distopian science fiction written about a future where merely being a pedestrian made one a suspect for a crime to be discovered.

[Echo In Light]

268. Good catch!

"In this story we encounter Leonard Mead, a citizen of a television-centered world in A.D. 2053. In the city, roads have fallen into decay and people only leave their homes during the day, staying home at night to watch TV. It is revealed that Mead enjoys walking through the city during the night, something which no one else does. On one of his usual walks he encounters a robotic police car. It is the only police unit in a city of three million, since the purpose of law enforcement has disappeared with everyone watching TV at night. The police car struggles to understand why Mr. Mead would be out walking for no reason and decides to take him to the Psychiatric Center for Research on Regressive Tendencies."

[followthemoney]

274. In the golden age of science fiction people would be horrified ...

of a future like that. We have come to be so accepting of authority and the diminishment of civil rights that many of us will think the pedestrian must have done something wrong; we side with the authorities against our own freedom.

We are learning our new place in a country we no longer know as our birthright.

[seabeyond]

277. there are people on this thread advocating not even daring to ask a cop a question

if we are really to the point of being so god damn fearful of a cops reaction that we cannot even ask.... warning for what? then that really says a lot. and further, to actually have duers here say DON'T ask the cop any question. a thank you and walk away is best

wtf

[followthemoney]

280. People are now internalizing the authoritarian message,

"Resistance is futile,' from another robot from the future.

Surrender or you will be suppressed.

Self assertion against the powerful is evidence of insanity or criminal intent.

[seabeyond]

282. Self assertion against the powerful is evidence of insanity or criminal intent

and every person that buys into it feeds it more and it grows into such a power of acceptance and reasonableness, a norm.

then

looking in the eye really is a criminal act.

like walking on a street at 10:30 at night

[grahamhgreen]

270. America has become a police state. nt

[truedelphi]

272. Call around and talk to some lawyers.

A good attorney can somtimes get a person a nice settlement if you have been humiliated.

And the other thing is - what road were you supposed to use to go from the place where the bus let you off to anywhere else? Were you supposed to fly on wings?

I would really make a huge legal stink about this.

[COLGATE4]

281. There's no legal redress for 'humiliation'

at least humiliation as defined by the story recounted here. No lawyer is going to touch this.

[truedelphi]

299. if it is unlawful detainment, and not humiliation,

There is probably some form of redress.

One aspect of the story that concerns me a lot is the idea that there is a road, complete with curbs and sidewalks, yet people are not supposed to use it... What sort of place is that?

I know of roads that are to only be used by busses, no passenger cars, but I have never heard that people cannot be present on a "bus only" road. After all, how do people deal with their physical bodies once they get off the bus?

[JDPriestly]

275. I can understand that you were frightened because you did not know

what might happen with you. The fact is that, in general, if you cooperate with a police officer -- smile and say thank you officer -- that's how we humans indicate that we are not hostile -- you will be OK.

Put yourself in the officer's shoes. Here is how he sees himself: In his job, he could face death or serious injury at any moment. He and his family take that risk to protect the public including you and all other law-abiding citizens.

When he first saw you from his car, you were walking in an area where you were not supposed to be. It was deserted and designated as a strictly bus zone. Those were caution signals to him. On top of that he was alone.

He did not know when he stopped you whether you were armed or whether you were insane, drunk, drugged or just plain dangerous. So, he may have been more scared than you were. He is trained to take care of himself first. So, of course, he frisked you. He was within his rights in doing that. We do not want officers to be shot in the line of duty any more than we want anyone else to be hurt.

The area in which you were walking may not have been clearly marked as closed to ordinary pedestrians, but it may, nonetheless, have been quite dangerous at night. He probably intended to scare you a bit so that you would pay more attention in the future.

The officer had a bad street-side manner but he most likely meant to protect you and, yes, frighten you a bit so that you would not make the same mistake again. To him, you probably looked very young and either dangerous or vulnerable. Remember that.

I'm sorry if reports of police violence have frightened you. Officers do sometimes use excessive force, but in general, they are there to protect you. Next time, let the officer know right away that you are not armed or violent. Try to understand that is doing his job as he is trained to do it.

An officer is less likely to over-react, to react out of fear or to become angry if you are compliant and understanding about his task and his or her intentions. There is a video called Busted put out by Flex Your Rights.com that explains what your rights are when stopped by the police. Most of the time (all the time for me at this quiet time of my life), when we are stopped, we are completely unaware of doing anything wrong and don't need to worry.

If you are very compliant and meet up with the rare really angry, really frightened, abusive officer, your court case against him should there be one will be stronger if you can show that you have been very cooperative. The rare bad or completely burned-out officer needs to be retired from the force. By cooperating with officers in situations like yours, you can help identify those who really should no longer be serving in their difficult job.

Good luck in the future. I hope this never happens to you again.

[Joe Chi Minh]

291. Good to read a rational explanation in mitigation.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

276. Shit, you missed a great chance

to tell a whopper of a lie and who would ever know?
Think about this........... 'hi folks, you are probably wondering why the policeman let me off here. Well the reason is (insert first lie here)' etc,etc,etc,,,,,,,,,,, :)

[UndertheOcean]

283. swine

[liquid diamond]

285. I'll say the same thing I always say whenever I hear a story like this.

I hate cops. A few bad apples my ass.

[era veteran]

286. Authority always wins

Which is too fucking bad. The police should be drafted. Anybody who wants to be a cop probably shouldn't. The job fucks up your head.

[Joe Chi Minh]

290. I've never ever heard of any public roads in the UK or, indeed, anywhere else in the world,

open to traffic, but not pedestrians, except motorways. Still less public roads with side-walks and kerbs. They must be there for ornamental purposes. It's bad enough having roads only open for buses and taxis!

It reminds me of a passage in Tobias Wolfe's "In Pharaoh's Army". He was serving in Vietnam as an officer in the special services and encountered tremendous hostility from local people. This did not go unnoticed by the African American sergeant he was with, who doubled up with laughter, saying words to the effect that now he was the black man! If I'm not mistaken, that kind of treatment - but without the politeness - has been all too familir to African-American people down the years. And much, much worse.

[cbgb2112]

293. Shooter

Are the ones complaining about this the same ones that feel the cops did not do ENOUGH to stop the Pentagon shooter? Just asking.....

[geckosfeet]

294. Ouch.

A warning.

What an asshole.

[Canuckistanian]

295. I would have yelled, "THIS TIME? What would you CHARGE me with?"

I allowed myself to be intimidated by a cop once. Never again. I know my rights AND I know about cops.

And I'm perfectly willing to go to jail for a night to have my day in court.

[alp227]

296. As the cop wasted time on this, other people REALLY needed the cops

because they were getting robbed or hurt for any reason. Geez, was the cop gonna get a bonus this month for doing this?

Police > the law.

[Harmony27]

297. I was pulled over and accused of not wearing my seat belt properly

I was diving home from work yesterday and saw a cop driving in the opposite direction. As soon as he drove passed me he turned his vehicle around and pulled me over. He then said I was being stopped because I had the strap of my seat belt under my arm and not directly over my shoulder. I stated that it was over my shoulder and I do not ever wear it under my arm as he had indicated. He told me I was lying and I was going to get a ticket ... He proceeded off to his vehicle. After a few minutes he walked back to my car, opened the passenger side door and told me to admit to lying or I was going to get a ticket. I said "Officer, I had my seat belt on over my shoulder and I am not lying." He insisted that I was not telling the truth. He said he and his partner saw me. He again told me I was getting a ticket that I should admit to lying. Again, I told him I wasn't lying. He then tossed my drivers license and registration onto the passenger seat and went to his vehicle ... I thought he was going to write up a citation but then he drove off.

I'm an elementary school teacher. I was pulled over in the community where my students live. My seat belt was on properly but for some reason he insisted it was not, and he was extremely rude. I had my seat belt on properly over my shoulder and I was certainly not going to tell him what he wanted to hear just so he wouldn't give me a ticket. I made a choice to tell the truth no matter what the consequences were.

[rabs]

315. Two big thumbs up for not letting the cop intimidate you.

And welcome to DU ..

[B Calm]

326. You did the right thing! They fear traffic court!!

[earcandle]

300. Thank you for being smart and kind enough not to become a victim. Sorry America is just not the

same anymore.  Someday maybe, we can get her back on track. 
In the meantime, keep doing what you are doing and don't
provoke.
They are looking for excuses to control people. 

[zenprole]

301. Reality Check

For the hundredth time, there are only two responses you need to know when confronted by the police:

"Am I free to go?"

"I'm going to remain silent. I want to speak to my attorney."

Never offer them access to your home. Ever.

Police are allowed to lie and do so routinely. Handle them as you would a poisonous reptile when wearing a blindfold.

Read "Beat The Heat" by Katya Komisaruk and "Our Enemies in Blue" by Kristian Williams.

[countmyvote4real]

302. At least you got a ride back to the bus stop.

And if you made a point of thanking him, everybody at the bus stop would know the nice policeman gave you ride.

Now if he had to uncuff you, that wouldn't work.

[austin78704]

305. I don't see the problem

Excuse me for being dense, but I've had a very similar experience and came off thanking the cop for the lift.

[Gormy Cuss]

314. You thanked a cop who frisked you?

I bet that made his day.

[ColesCountyDem]

327. Cops have an absolute right to be safe.

Frisking someone is a part of that right.

[Gormy Cuss]

330. Cops have no more absolute right to be safe than any other person .

and frankly, if I had been walking down the road minding my own business I sure as hell wouldn't thank a cop for frisking me.

[ColesCountyDem]

333. Yes, they do.

You're quite wrong.

[Gormy Cuss]

334. Prove it.

eta: even Terry stops require balance against 4th amendment rights. Someone merely walking down a road at night doesn't pose a risk to an officer until the cop decides to declare that activity suspicious. Such a declaration should be based on something other than simply being a pedestrian.

[ColesCountyDem]

335. Apples and oranges.

You initially said that a police officer doesn't have a right to frisk a stopped subject, and I said that he does. Now you want to argue probable cause. Make up your mind....

:eyes:

[Gormy Cuss]

343. Uh, you seemed to have confused me with someone else on the thread.

I never said any such thing. In fact, this specific subthread was a comment on whether someone thanked a cop for frisking him/her.
:eyes:

[ColesCountyDem]

344. "Cops have no more absolute right to be safe than any other person ."

That's YOUR post, friend.

:eyes:

[Gormy Cuss]

346. Find where I said cops had no right to frisk.

Those words don't say it, in or out of context -- and the context was someone who was stopped by a cop for the 'suspicious' act of being a pedestrian.

[seabeyond]

347. and then "thanked" for the frisk, lol lol. nt

[ColesCountyDem]

349. Being a pedestrian in a 'bus only zone' in the dead of night.

:eyes:

[Gormy Cuss]

350. Right after a bus traveled in that zone, so clearly not the 'dead of night'

and one question would garner the reasonable explanation for walking in a restricted area -- an area that apparently doesn't have sufficient barriers to prevent pedestrian access nor sufficient visible signs to warn off pedestrians at least during the night when buses are still using the zone.

[ColesCountyDem]

352. Read the OP again...

It was past 10:00 p.m. and the poster was more than a mile from the bus stop.

Facts DO make a difference....

:eyes:

[CreekDog]

336. The officer's safety was unaffected by the Original Poster

maybe your argument could be even more convincing if you said frisking the OP helped alleviate global warming...because that argument is as valid as the safety one.

[ColesCountyDem]

365. But he didn't KNOW that and couldn't possibly know it, until he had frisked the poster.

A police officer has an absolute RIGHT to make sure that he or she is s-a-f-e during an investigative stop. What part of the phrase 'absolute right' is unclear?

:eyes:

[austin78704]

364. Yes

I take it as a part of his job, seeing as it is. He offered me a ride on the condition I allow him to search me before I get into the car with him. He left me the option to decline, but I chose the ride as I was still over ten miles from home.

Again, I do not see the problem.

[CreekDog]

337. thank you sir, may i have another?

[alarimer]

311. When are the citizens of this country going to wake up and bring this police state under control?

YOU pay these cops' salaries; they should have to answer to the citizenry.

I hate this police state bullshit.

[xsquid]

367. Police state?

Ever been to any foreign countries? I have been to many and the us, along with canada (which is about the same as ours), is the least of a police state than any of them. I'm not arguing this stop of the op, just that anyone claiming the US is a police state must be very sheltered as far as the world goes.

[KonaKane]

320. They freak when a guy is walking down a desolate road....

But when the top office of this nation's government leads us into a bullshit war that kills a million innocents, no one cares?

I live in bizarro world.

[Selatius]

329. No. You live in a two-party dictatorship that claims to be democratic and free.

At least the people of Iran KNOW that they live under a dictatorship. Here, a lot of people still believe they are free.

[seeinfweggos]

348. right which is why you aren't allowed to post ... oh wait, nevermind.

lol

[ColesCountyDem]

366. LOL! n/t

:rofl:

[stevenleser]

370. Well, you seem to be a newbie and apparently don't know this but...

I would not describe DU as "not caring" about the Iraq war. Close to 100% of us were and are very upset about it.