Here's your chance to stick it to the Gipper: Orlando Sentinel conducting poll - DU it please!

[ddeclue]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/os-poll-ronald-reagan-on-money-030510,0,4533661.poll

Please go to this poll and stick it to Ronald Wilson Reagan...

<rant>
:rant:

They are asking in the poll whether the Gipper should replace the Grant on the 50 dollar bill.

Apparently another Republican Congressman has a weed up his a** about getting another hero worship bill for Ronnie passed this year. As you might expect, another Republican Congressman wants to pass another symbolic bill designed to be an emotional wedge issue so that he can distract from his inability to conceive and pass legislation that might actually make a positive difference in his constituents' lives.

I guess the theory is that it will be harder to pass one of these Ronnie worship bills with a Democratic Congress and President so the Republicans decided it would be easier to stick it to U.S. Grant (a fellow Republican) this time.

The theory is that they will be replacing one Republican with another so we Democrats will be less inclined to care and nobody is still alive who remembers Grant first hand as opposed to the last version of this bill where they wanted to replace FDR with Ronnie on the dime. (In which case I'd have to insist on getting all my change in nickels.)

Well U.S. Grant may not have been the best President but he sure was still a hell of a lot better than Ronnie or W who rightfully rate down there with Harding and Nixon - that said, he was still monumental in winning the Civil War, preserving the Union, and bringing an end to (legally speaking that is) slavery in the United States.

The only Republican President who could say the same is Dwight Eisenhower who likewise commanded the American army and the Allied Forces in Europe during the other momumental war for national survival that our nation faced in World War II some 80 years later.

While Ike was leading our troops to victory in Africa, Italy and Europe, their "hero" was a Burbank commando making training films in Hollywood and going home to his own bed every night. Meanwhile plenty of his Hollywood colleagues like Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gable, and John Ford signed up and got assignments that put them in harm's way - Stewart and Gable in bombers over Europe and Ford doing combat documentary films in the Pacific.

I say if you want to stick Ronnie's picture on something let it be a T-Bill. After all he's the guy who invented the modern national debt with his trickle down economics and his deregulation paved the way for the later deregulation and lack of enforcement that first gave us the S&L scandal, then Enron and Global Crossing and finally the financial meltdown of "too big to fail" banks like Goldman Sachs.

Yes let's push an amendment to the legislation to put his picture on the Treasury bill instead of our currency.

</rant>

[elleng]

1. Hell no, we won't go!

[Art_from_Ark]

2. Personally, I'm in favor of removing Grant's portrait from the $50

since his administration was quite corrupt and having his portrait on US money practically from the time of his death did a lot to keep the South antagonized for decades.

But Reagan isn't the man to replace him-- no way. If it has to be another Republican, then Eisenhower would be a better choice.

[ddeclue]

3. I could live with that but Ike is already on a coin (although they don't get used much)

[Art_from_Ark]

7. Washington and Jefferson are also on bills and coins

as is Lincoln.

But very few people outside of coin collectors and some casino gamblers, remember the very short-lived Ike Dollar (1971-78).

Of course, there's also Teddy Roosevelt who, all things considered, was one of the best Republican presidents-- and he's never been on a circulating coin. There was a Senate bill that had been passed to commemorate him on a couple of collector coins, but apparently nothing ever came of that

[ddeclue]

13. Depends on how old you are...I remember them because they were around when I was a kid.

I also remember the Susan B's that came out later.

Teddy does have his face on Mt. Rushmore (along w Messrs Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln) and he has his own room at the White House as well so he may not be immortalized in money but he does have significant memorials already.

Washington and Jefferson were amongst the principal Founding Fathers.

I also consider Lincoln to be a Founding Father - he became so by preserving the Union and through his words at the Gettysberg Address which recast the central idea of our nation from being a collection of states to being truly one nation. He recast the notion of our nation in that address as being about the idea of equality as opposed to merely being from one tribe with "dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal" echoing Jefferson's earlier words in the Declaration.

Finally I consider Martin Luther King, Jr. to be "the last Founder" because he took Lincoln's theoretical proposition of "equality" and made it real within many of our lifetimes. Perhaps he and LBJ deserve to share credit as the "Last Founders" as both were required to get the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts passed into law in 1964 and 1965.

Martin and Lyndon have never been on coins - perhaps they deserve to share a coin? In any event Martin should be on a coin if you don't think Lyndon does because of his responsibility for escalating the Vietnam War.

The other important Founding Father missing from a coin is John Adams. Adams and Jefferson were the principal architects of American Democracy and Jefferson gets all the glory while Adams gets ignored.

Oops I take that back, Adams is now on one of those Presidential dollar coins isn't he but he has to be on there with guys like (eventually) Nixon and Harding and Reagan and W. Kind of takes the honor out of it doesn't it.

I guess we can point to Ronnie getting to be on this coin and tell them enough already. Well scratch that point though because I just looked and the series ends with Gerald Ford. I guess they can't have coins with living people on them (although we DO name Navy ships after living Presidents..G.H.W. Bush and Jimmy Carter have ships named after them)

Ultimately though they've already got an aircraft carrier and an airport named after the Gip.. enough IS enough.

Finally, what we don't really have are any coins using women except for Susan B. Anthony which basically got pulled and the Sacajawea dollar also not in use for similar reasons.

What about Abigail Adams, Clara Barton, Julia Ward Howe, Amelia Earhardt, Judith Resnick, Eleanor Roosevelt, Frances Perkins, Jacqueline Cochran, Cornelia M. Fort, Rosa Parks, Grace Hopper, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Bessie Coleman, Barbara Jordan, Clare Booth Luce, Juliette Gordon Lowe, Harriet Tubman, and Louisa May Alcott? Should at least a few of these women be on an American coin?

[Art_from_Ark]

16. At one time the only people on US coins were women

and they were all called "Miss Liberty"

[ddeclue]

17. ok but Miss Liberty (as in the dime) isn't an actual historical figure

and these days all of our coins honor an actual historical figure (as do most currencies around the world).

[Art_from_Ark]

22. The problem with honoring an actual historical figure

on a circulating coin, is that while most people accept the concept as it extends to presidents (that is, leaders), when you get past that into the realm of ordinary citizens who became famous, there would be too much controversy to decide on which one to put on a coin. I saw that in the run-up to the Susie B. dollar. That's why Miss Liberty lasted so long and why most coin tributes to actual people who were not politicians are relegated to the realm of commemorative coins, to be noticed by a few collectors but not by the public at large.

[ddeclue]

23. Not every American on money was a President.

Samuel P. Chase is on the 10,000 dollar note.
Benjamin Franklin is on the 100 dollar bill.
Alexander Hamilton is on the 10 dollar bill.
Several of the state quarter series feature prominent non Presidents.

Must have been a tough choice for Ohio given that several American Presidents are from there plus you have both the Wright Brothers and Neil Armstrong to chose from.

[Art_from_Ark]

29. The Samuel P. Chase $10,000 note

is little known outside the world of collectors. And it never really circulated among the masses, because of its extremely high face value.

State quarters were a one-time thing-- circulating commemoratives. And they came out in such rapid succession that few people paid attention to the actual people commemorated on some of those coins. Although it might be easy to remember Helen Keller on the Alabama quarter, just who is that guy riding the horse on the Delaware commemorative? Who is the guy in the space suit on the Ohio commemorative? And the guy on the Hawaii quarter? Moreover, state quarters were designed by states, and did not require an act of Congress for approval, as long as they met the Treasury's guidelines.

Also, Benjamin Franklin is considered to be a Founding Father (he was also on the half dollar from 1948-63). Alexander Hamilton was the first Treasury Secretary and is also considered to be a Founding Father.

[ddeclue]

30. I'm gonna guess that it is Founding Father Caesar Rodney..

Ohio - Neil Armstrong - I guess Ohio let NC have the Wright Brothers since they had so many to choose from.

Hawaii? don't know without cheating by Google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_Rodney

[Art_from_Ark]

33. I think the Ohio quarter could depict Neil Armstrong

or it could be depicting John Glenn, who was also a Senator from Ohio. The guy on the Hawaii quarter is King Kamehameha, I think.

[ddeclue]

35. Kamehameha makes sense..I looked up Ohio

they claim it is supposed to be the Wright Brothers, John Glenn AND Neil Armstrong.

The Wright Flyer is featured on the Obverse as is an astronaut in a space suit but the astronaut is clearly an Apollo astronaut in a lunar space suit, not the earlier Mercury spacesuit that Glenn wore.

On the other hand -it's their quarter so they can claim the astronaut is both Glenn and Armstrong.

[roguevalley]

18. FDR? is he on something?

[ddeclue]

20. Ok look in your pocket and find a dime..

if it was minted any time since 1946 it features FDR prominently on the front.

Prior to that dimes had the Greek God "Mercury" on them.

[roguevalley]

57. BWAHAHA. That's right. A dime. I want him on more. I'm the anti-

gipper. :P

[Art_from_Ark]

25. Well, FDR''s on the dime

He might be a good candidate, but I can just see the Repubs in Congress raising such a stink about replacing Grant (R) with FDR (D) that such legislation would go nowhere fast.

[ddeclue]

27. And even though I love FDR and think he was a better President than Grant

I still think that it would be an injustice to Grant who did do something very important for the nation before he was actually President.

[Art_from_Ark]

31. He did something very important for half the nation

In the other half of the nation, he was reviled for generations. Not only because of his Civil War victories, and the victories of his subordinates, that caused much suffering in the South, but with the way his administration pursued "Reconstruction" in the post-war era, virtually guaranteeing the animosity of whites toward blacks after the Federal troops finally pulled out after Rutherford Hayes' tainted victory in the 1876 election.

[ddeclue]

32. Well I'm sorry but the "nation" is the United States of America not the Confederate States of Americ

a which was a traitorous rebellion against the Constitution.

What he did he did for the ENTIRE nation even if some portion of it hated him for it - remember there were 4 million blacks in the South who would disagree with your assessment at the time he did what he did.

What Grant did was as important if not more so than what Eisenhower did 80 years later. Grant wasn't really corrupt as President, just somewhat incompetent. It was his subordinates that were corrupt. Eisenhower wasn't incompetent as President but all in all fairly mediocre compared to his job as supreme commander of allied forces in Europe.

P.S. I've lived most of my life in the Deep South by the way before anyone accuses me of being a "South bashing" Yankee.

[Art_from_Ark]

37. A traitorous rebellion against the Constitution?

Really? Where in the Constitution, as it existed in 1860, did it specifically prevent secession?

Before their idiotic firing on Ft. Sumter, I think that it is possible that the South would have been able to exit peacefully. And in fact, there were a lot of people in the North who wanted them to leave. I also think that if Lincoln had not been elected on an abolitionist platform, there probably would have been no rebellion, since his election is the reason cited by the South Carolina legislature for their state's declaration of secession.

[ddeclue]

39. not gonna debate it. Lincoln answered this question long ago and he won.

[Art_from_Ark]

40. The problem is, he won it with force

then after his assassination, his successor, who was a Southerner, was given no end of grief and was even impeached. Then Grant was elected President, while Federal troops were occupying the South, and "Reconstruction" went into full swing. It might have benefited some freed slaves for a few years, but it was imposed in such a way that it made even Southerners who had had no problems with blacks before that start to show animosity toward them. Then, when the Democrat Samuel Tilden was denied the Presidency, which was instead awarded to another Union General, people in the South really came to hate the Federal government. And when Federal troops pulled out in exchange for Hayes' tainted victory, it set in motion the processes of segregation and racial hostility that would continue in the South for 90 years or more.

So, no, I really can't honor Grant as someone who did something really wonderful. If he had handled Reconstruction better, then maybe. But as it was, he totally screwed the pooch.

[ddeclue]

41. No he won it through the force of his argument. You need to read more of Lincoln's writings.

Start with Lincoln at Gettysburg - Words that Remade a Nation by Gary Wills:
http://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Gettysburg-Words-Remade-America/dp/0671867423

I'll not debate it with you. It's not subject to debate any more than the world is round not flat.

[Art_from_Ark]

43. Are you kidding?

Lincoln presided over a 4-year war that ravaged the South, and you say he won it with his force of argument? Generals bombing Vicksburg and burning Georgia had nothing to do with it? His Southerner successor was impeached by Lincoln's party, but that was totally irrelevant? The winning Union general was elected President for two terms with Federal troops occupying the defeated South, but Southerners were OK with that because of Lincoln's arguments? The election of 1876 was stolen from a Democrat and another Union general was installed as President, but the South didn't mind because of Lincoln's persuasive words?

[ddeclue]

44. Read the book..I lived 12 years in Atlanta and 20 in Georgia. Read the book.

[global1]

4. If This Happens - We Can Have A New Saying........

"As Phony As A $50 Bill".

[ddeclue]

5. There's a good idea right there! DUZY.. we'll get the bill amended to create a new THREE dollar bill

and stick ol' Ronnie's picture on it. They loved passing those fake 3 dollar bills with Clinton on them around during the 90's and laughing it up. It would be wonderful to create a REAL 3 dollar bill and stick the Gipper's pic on it. They couldn't claim that we didn't give them what they keep asking for: Ronnie's pic on some money but they'd have to live with the phony as a three dollar bill slam every single day.

:rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. Oooh yeah, THAT'S the ticket! Stick "it" to a dead man.

My friend, you could dig him up, open his casket, roll him over, grease a soldering iron then shove it up his rotting sphincter. And do you know what? "The Gipper" wouldn't have a clue what you were doing, or what your motivation was, because the fucking "gipper" no longer exists.

Why do we spend so much time and energy hating people whose time has passed and who couldn't do anything about our hatred if they wanted to, because they're fucking dead?

I have a serious question for those of you who lurk and even post at FR. Do they spend as much time there talking about dead people as we do here? Do they spend their days talking about how they feel in regards to Truman? FDR? Might this be something that holds us back as a party? Our obsession with dead people we hate?

ddeclue, how many people do you think could name the person on the $50 bill? And of those who COULD name the portrait, how many of THOSE could tell you one single thing about the man?

You may have called DU'ers to duty before in the context of DU'ing polls, but this is the first time I've noticed. I find the notion of DU'ing polls totally ludicrous.

He's fucking dead. Go on hating him if that trips your trigger. Hating him solves nothing, changes nothing, improves nothing.

I'm not a reagan defender; I just think our time should be spent changing the minds and habits of those who are still living rather than hating those who are taking the eternal dirt nap.

[Richard D]

8. It's not hating his dead rotten body

It's what he represented and still represents.

[ddeclue]

9. Well he's the symbol for everything I've been opposed to my entire adult life

and I remember him because he was President in my adult lifetime so you'll have to pardon me if I'm not willing to leave it alone. As long as the other side wants to glorify and idolize this man, I'm gonna stand up against it.

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. As is your right. I respect that.

He's a dead man. His face doesn't make a $50 bill worth any more, or any less. I see so few $50 bills that the issue is less important to me than how many cars used the Alondra onramp to the northbound 605 between noon and three p.m. this afternoon. And I live 120 miles from that onramp.

If I only have 100% to give to something, and 10% is dedicated to making sure that a dead person I hate to my core doesn't get his face on a worthless piece of paper, then I'm denying whatever cause might be more important 10% of my time and effort.

My $.02

[ddeclue]

14. I understand..but I'll still be asking for 2 20's and a 10

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. You'll have $30 more than me!

Peace.

[ddeclue]

24. ? 20+20+10 =50.. Grant is on the 50.

2 20's + 1 10 = a 50...

confused...

peace.

[cherokeeprogressive]

36. I won't have $50 bucks to change. I'll only have a $20. I'll be asking for $5's. n/t

[ddeclue]

38. know the feeling.. ha ha.. I'm unemployed right now so I don't even have that most of the time.

[Hugabear]

10. Why should we honor Reagan by putting him on currency?

It's bad enough that we have to memorialize him by renaming our streets and airports after him.

[stopbush]

11. Problem is that those marking pens we use to check for counterfeit bills wouldn't work

on a Ronnie $50. The stuff runs right off the Teflon.

[ddeclue]

15. DUZY!

:rofl:

[upi402]

19. no 88% for Raygun on $50 bill, yay n/t

[proteus_lives]

26. Oh fuck Reagan.

The picture should be Ike punching that windbag in the face.

[emsimon33]

28. Done

[onestepforward]

34. Done!

[denbot]

42. 13 Yes 104 No

Done.

[unhappycamper]

45. ..

Poll: Ronald Reagan

Should Ronald Reagan's likeness replace that of Ulysses S. Grant on the $50 bill?

*
Yes. (23 responses)
15%
*
No. (130 responses)
85%

153 total responses

[Bravo Zulu]

46. done!

Poll: Ronald Reagan
Should Ronald Reagan's likeness replace that of Ulysses S. Grant on the $50 bill?

Yes. (23 responses)

15%

No. (132 responses)

85%

155 total responses

(Results not scientific)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

47. Done

[Vinca]

48. Done. Stick Reagan on the penny since that's all most of us have left

after Reaganomics.

[peekaloo]

49. Done. Put the fooker on a ketchup bottle.

4 votes from a tie. :-)

[mwb970]

50. I would not carry any money with Reagan on it.

Why honor the second worst American president in modern history this way? I would think that toilet paper sheets would be a more appropriate place for his likeness.

[Wizard777]

51. Done! We're winning with 53%.

[pipi_k]

52. Maybe they should stick his face on "Monopoly" money instead n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

53. Ronnie will have a $1 coin in 2016, so they should STFU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_$1_Coin_Program#The_program.27s_end

[Gin]

54. done....

Yes. (176 responses)

45%


No. (217 responses)

55%

393 total responses

(Results not scientific)

[Froward69]

55. Raygun on the Penny!!!

http://www.opednews.com/lower_061304_reagan_penny.htm

This they would be happy with... for us we can be content Lincoln would still be on the $5. asnd the penny like Raygun... is virtually WORTHLESS!!!

http://www.opednews.com/lower_061304_reagan_penny.htm

[ddeclue]

56. .

[northofdenali]

58. But I'm in favor of putting him on SOME kind of money -

like a wooden nickel.

K&R

[donheld]

59. Done